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Hi JRose - I read your story in your introductory post and a lot resonates....so, so, so much.

*Trigger Warning*

My father was the same with us as kids (all the A's, including SA) and it was only last year that memories started coming back, a few seeping in...it could have been ritual abuse too (we grew up in an extremely guarded religious tradition), at the hands of my sociopathic dad who is far out of my life. Unfortunately I think most of it might of happened in my infancy so solid memories are unlikely to return, but I have memories of regular nightmares, every night, that involved a man hurting me in multiple ways. I have no real memories except for disorienting and wildly out of control emotional and physical pain that surfaces now and again....it is wordless, intense, and accompanied by none of the five senses, except agony. If I could afford a real deal trauma therapist I'm sure that more digging would reveal even more and bring me more answers, but I'm at a financial standstill at present.

Even just opening up a conversation about this possibility, that I might have been abused (it has long been established my older sibling was for sure abused but no one else) with my close best friend/younger sibling, created a huge chasm that slowly built into what it is now: an uncrossable gulf enforced by emotional abuse (gaslighting, minimizing, denial, bullying, etc.) from family that has been sleeping for years since my childhood but has reawoken this past year....all to defend the established narrative: that my older sibling got it the worst, they're the only one who was abused, they require what little love and attention there is to give (specifically from my covert emotionally abusive and highly neglectful mother), and the entire family dynamic swirls and centers on feeding and supplying them both in a cloud of covert narcissism.

I honestly believe all my siblings were abused in some way, though - and my uNPD older sibling, desperate for love in a loveless family (in tandem with my heavily in-denial covert N mother, suppressing her guilt over serious neglect/abuse of all of us and reality itself with meticulous damage control) warped the telling of our childhoods subtly and intentionally over time to help our family look good, and to deny the abuse was that serious (while helping keep all the focus on older sib).

Anyways....I digress....my opening up about the trauma has put me in a similar place as you, a lot of rejection from family. Even talking about the possibility brought on immense distance, mostly at their hands which they deny and blame me for in every open and honest communication I attempt. Even referencing serious neglect from my M that affected all of us was a problem...while my whole fam complains about my M (and everyone) it's not acceptable when I do it, but they can do it all day long (and about each other too).

This year the situation accelerated into an intense climax (just a few weeks ago, actually), where it was suddenly clear my younger sib couldn't absorb or process what I was telling her about abuse I opened up to her about months ago (understandable) but ultimately sided with my M and older sib's narrative that has been established for so long. She has always been kind but a fawning personality, but when confronted, she morphed into a person a hardly knew, ready and willing to use narcissist tactics to bury my plea of hurt and pain as much as possible... and avoid accountability for her actions as an ultimately less than supportive friend and sister, and turning the blame for our crumbling relationship all on me.

This experience also recovered a lot of memories from my childhood of my scapegoat position in the family when very little, and the emotional abuse (and physical/medical neglect) that came with it. Which honestly, is far worse feeling for me to reckon with even to the PA/SA. I look back to myself as a child and it was all too obvious I suffered from anxiety and depression, regardless of the cause, and this was neglected. My other physical medical needs we're often neglected. My older siblings abused me but this was ignored, and when I tried to protest it with parents, golden child older sibs we're protected and the fault of the abuse was mine, I was "too sensitive" and a "weird child." So now, I'm NC with all family indefinitely, who knows when I'll feel up to talking to them again.

The expectation to get better and be better rapidly is something I so relate to as well....my husband can get frustrated. Though he is very supportive. He just doesn't understand that this type of childhood neurologically alters you forever. You are differently-abled and neurodivergent, which is limiting and extremely difficult sometimes but I see some great gifts with it.

And yes, my realization was that for as long as family couldn't acknowledge this discovery  (or even just lightly consider it!) about my own traumatic childhood story instead or in addition to my older sister's, I couldn't tolerate being around them. At first the unwillingness to see it as truth or talk about it was unspoken, and they just turned the other way and avoided talking about it, and I could kind of handle and come to terms with that with basic boundaries. But the more I even basically maintained some sort of relationship with them, this willful ignorance transformed into rejection, isolating me from the rest of family, calling me a liar and insane behind my back, questioning my memories or denying them and saying I'm making them up for attention, smear campaigning me, smearing my DH too, saying "I've changed" and implying it in a bad way (this directly from my former best friend/little sister)....when all that started happening contact with them was beyond unbearable. Both my siblings also alleged that my opening up about these issues meant that I was abusing my younger sibling by using her as a therapist (a terrible thing, especially when I stopped talking about my therapy when we were together but then younger sibling expected me to therapize her experiences and even keep secrets from the rest of family!) Despite all this, I regularly doubt myself and think I should open up communication again.

Yes, NC and the long, hard road (which I'm just at the beginning of) of un-condemning and re-validating yourself is so difficult! And it's so much more difficult coming from an enmeshed family, like my own, where the desire to be part of their lives and the fold is like a craving for a drug. I'm not sure how your relationships with family have been, but losing the support of your younger sister in your own case.... harrowing. And I'm so sorry she's not wanting to honestly support you, but instead uphold the family narrative at your expense. This is a choice I still don't understand. And it's all the harder when some family (like your sister, and my own) can be easily seen as kind, good, and having a sliver of empathy and light in them still, and you want to see that and turn attention to that .... but then the ugliness emerges ....

Again I'm so sorry you're in a similar position. It's ultimately up to you if you want to get deeper involved be though you're NC. I think one thing to consider is that your younger S expects unconditional support but can't give that to you in return. Is that worth letting down your boundaries for with the rest of your family too, for this intervention? What's the price of doing so, and what's the payoff? I know it's hard to not be there for your sister but you also need to keep yourself safe. If the rest of your family is taking care of the situation, then maybe that's OK and you can support her with thoughts and prayers from a distance. Still, if you don't think you could live with the idea of not showing your support, then you should follow your instincts there too...and do what feels right. Only you know.

And here I am with a long long message, too long. Take care JRose and thanks for writing....I wish you the best of luck and nothing but good feelings towards you and where you are at in your healing journey ❤️

Hi JRose! It's great to hear from you. I could hardly be resentful towards anyone not responding in this forum right away, especially hearing the things you've had to deal with, wow! Each of us have life to live.

Any updates on your own situation with your sister? And I'm very sorry to hear you've been so unwell! Though it sounds like it might be good, as therapy is the cause, and can shake things up on the road to healing.... if you're open and willing to share I'd be here to listen.

I am also not getting email notifications! And not sure how to fix that! 

Hi all - I've recently gone NC with ALL family. Every once in a while (like now) I get filled with doubt and think about scootching back to VLC, that I've been unfair and haven't given FOO a chance to explain themselves, that it's all happening too quickly for them, I'm being too hasty. (I mean, all of this snowballed in under 1-2 years). But then I think about what responses I might get if I open that door again. Gaslighting, minimizing, projecting, more emotional abuse piled on.

It's like it takes everything in my power to keep the door closed. A close friend of mine said it's like being an alcoholic, it's a cold, hard choice you just have to make everyday, there's no reward or even satisfaction sometimes, you just know you got to do it to stay healthy. There's no closure, the itch never goes away. But that's what I'm wondering about.

Has anyone here felt closure, or they could pinpoint the moment where they knew that NC was needed, potentially for a long time, potentially for good? Like it was the "sign" they were waiting for and it was an overwhelming message. And it just felt....right. And you go back to that moment, again and again, to draw the strength you need to keep NC? Or is there just always doubt, always guilt?

My moments have been so intense but even then I still doubt them. Someone with strong, healthy boundaries would find the behavior absolutely unacceptable and get the **** outta there, and I would find it completely reasonable when I put myself in the shoes of an outsider looking in. But even after the PD in my FOO completely smeared me, isolated me from the rest of my family, triangulated them against me and turned them into flying monkeys....and then spread ideas around that my spouse is physically abusive to myself and others (though he definitely isnt, and PD was even willing to attempt to contact his ex to dig up dirt on him, even though PD would find nothing....) all these things that are grossly untrue to still get at me, why do I still feel like I'm being the "unfair" one?

Was there a strong moment if clarity for any of you? Things are so ridiculous and I still feel so foggy ( FOGgy). Will it ever end. Thank you in advance. 

Hi Bounty. I also hear voices. I've met others who hear voices, too. Not in my head, but outside, like right in my ear(s). What I tell people who are newly experiencing this or stressed out by it, is that it's actually quite common and more normal than people realize.

I heard voices pretty intensely in my teen years mostly. The most intense experience I had was crazy (not insane crazy more like "whoah! What's that?") in that I didn't hear human voices, I heard animal voices, thousands of them at once: barking, meowing, roaring, bird calls, etc. It was so loud I was looking around and thought it was real but no one else heard it. But more common has been human voices.

It's rarer now for me to hear them, though last week a voice chimed in very briefly while I was going to sleep (most common time I hear them) - unlike you, I don't hear them during EFs exclusively necessarily. I also can't understand what they're saying either. Most of the time. Maybe a word or two. I can also "tune into" them if I really want to hear them, but can also tune them out. Like a radio. The voices sound like radio voices sometimes too. Society considers this a sign of insanity but I've never felt crazy about this.

Sometimes I can ask questions and get answers. They're always cryptic and gibbery and not straightforward, kind of like a dream or a riddle (thinking Twin Peaks here).

Honestly, I think it's my subconscious, and small strings of feelings and expressions flying around. Some others think it's the "Akashic Record" or whatever but I think that's kind of the same thing. Just pieces of you talking to each other and making sense of things. If the voices start saying mean or angry things, make you suspicious of others, or tell you to do something awful, then by all means get help for it - otherwise there's more people who experience this regularly than most realize.

Check out: http://www.hearing-voices.org/

The Hearing Voices Network. Helping normalize and de-stigmatize the average human hearing audible voices sometimes.

The alternative path I'm on feels horrible, but it's still the lesser evil.

I feel you so much here. It's sticky all around to say the least. It's the lesser evil for you especially, so you don't get hurt nearly as much. I try to think it's the lesser evil for my FOO too. The less enabling there is the less the disorder is fed. Same in your situation. If we all cut off PD's from supply in a perfect world they would cease to exist or at least be so prevalent, and spreading their behavioral patterns that way wouldn't happen and maybe we'd save others more pain...if it weren't for other enabling FOO. Though when one of them becomes the new SG they have their own choice to make to stop the pattern, perhaps, and experience precisely what you felt and understand. That can only be possible (even if only minutely possible) if you go NC!

You're making the right decision: for yourself, your uNF, and even for your FOO and others in that light.

I also have enablers in the family and that hurts too. Both brothers have distanced themselves from me and though they don't verbally support F, their actions shout that actually, they kinda do.

Actions can speak so loudly and our gut can confirm so much! If you're feeling this you're probably right. I feel enabler siblings still want to reserve their right to complaining all about the PD in the family to each other, just behind each other's backs. And they feed on the gossip and negativity. It really is like a fuel that helps them replace emptiness elsewhere in their lives. It's an easy fix but only a temporary high. You're growing, and they are not!

It's those of us in the family (the scapegoats) who actually try to "heal" the pattern when we contest it that bring the rest of the family together in a weird way...they do it because it makes us an easy target, we're the wolf in the village now, no longer a villager, they no longer have that desire for the fix in common with you. The validating is easy, the changing of the ways is not. They're not as brave as you to finally say goodbye to the *real* source of negativity in their lives.

But, maybe once you're out of the picture, they will see it...and if they don't, you're at least free to grow.

It's pretty much a clique that I no longer have access to.

Yes! Absolutely. I remember feeling this when young and in school, not being part of cliques. It's crazy that FOO is now one of them as an adult for us. But it shows how much I've grown - and you, too, blues cruise!

It's like others flocking around the popular kid. And like in school, it's painful not to be a part - but then realizing you're growing and learning and outpacing that mindset, while they hold onto that feeling of "popularity." But like they say, most kids who were popular in school hold onto that feeling and don't advance nearly as much in life as those of us who learned to be stronger without that crutch, and who even experienced ostracism. It's the same with FOO. I feel a mixture of painful exclusion and pity for them sometimes too, though. They're stuck. Holding onto the last shreds of pettiness in order to avoid real growth. Those shreds do nothing for us anymore, we yearn for something better. It's out there for you, I'm sure.

I know he would resolve to find opportunities to belittle, humiliate and punish me and try to get the old dynamics going if I ever did attempt contact again.  To explain that to another person is impossible too, because it's unbelievable that someone's own parent would want to do that to them.

You're not alone here! And that's why I'm at this forum myself. People just don't understand. Even my DH, even close friends, even those I know who are still caught in the FOG themselves. But you've got tons of people here who do and who are going through the same thing.

Thank you, it feels good to have someone tell me that it's not my fault. I'm far better nowadays at being kind to myself consciously, but subconsciously I blame myself for not being strong or resilient enough to endure the contact anymore. As you say, the effects are ongoing and it's just so odd how trauma can hit you years and years after the worst of what happened is over. I was able to deal with him with far less anxiety and fear when I was living with him and actively going through it all.

I'm so sorry to hear this. I hope you're able to find stronger barriers within yourself to feel more protected from the vestiges of his influence at a distance, and your siblings too. I'm working on this myself. I have good weeks and then very bad weeks.

It is truly the worst part, how abusive FOO can find a way into our subconscious even after they are not physically present. I was really enmeshed myself - I've had no problem cutting out harmful friends and acquaintances, and even facing breakups, over far less but FOO has a way of getting deep under our skin. Because they raised us and we depended on them emotionally, and they conditioned us to meet their emotional needs in a painful way, of course! Even if the dependence was fraught with harm and injury, or when something good was ultimately spoiled by betrayal. And the showing of true colors....

When dealing with the worst emotions a good reminder I have for myself is that the reason I feel this way is that I have empathy, they don't. I feel for them. I grieve the loss where they cannot. They don't feel that deeply or the lies they tell themselves about my being awful (to validate their actions to themselves) protect them from feeling anything wrong, and then I realize I'm GLAD to not be them or caught up in their darkness. It's a high price to pay for empathy I guess, and to be a good person.

In essence, you're a good person blues cruise  you still care about your FOO despite how badly they've treated you and that is the hallmark of a person who is big hearted, loving, and worthy to be in the world and to be happy. And a person who deserves love..self-love especially!

I'm still learning to love myself more in the context of FOO dynamics and it's never smooth but that's the greatest challenge we're tasked with  You've made the first step loving yourself going NC, and I can only say it's the first. (By the way, I made the choice to go full NC with my covert uNM TODAY, so we're walking the same path). There will be even more steps and opportunities now that you've made the most difficult first step of all, to not be permeated by the toxic behavior any longer and to get out of the storm and the FOG.

Here's to more healing and clarity to come... and a hug if you need it!  Anxiety and depression will be part and parcel to the road ahead but we are now birds out of our cages, ready to figure out how to fly without fear...as cheesy as it sounds it's true.

Hi blues cruise! Thank you for putting your experience and feelings out there into this forum. I'm so sorry you're in this position. The pain of it... awful. You have every right to uphold NC if you feel that's what brings you health, clarity, happiness, and healing... and like so many others here I'm sure we can  relate to this unique and harrowing emotional experience of individuating ourselves despite what feels like a high cost to do so (and all the abandonment anxiety that comes with it). I sure do.

I try to remember the mantra "the pain would be much worse without the boundaries." But the no-win situation, and some pain no matter what you do, is the hardest struggle of all. If only we could just live pain free. What gives me hope are the experiences of other members (here and at Out of the FOG) who say it gets easier when you figure out precisely what's best for you...whether it's LC, VLC, NC, etc....and time helps the most afterward.

I'm very sorry that VLC just didn't work at all. I relate to you so much in wanting to keep that door open, to give FOO a last chance and try to meet them on some terms to still have them in your life in some way, shape, or form. But then realizing that even that low contact price might be just too high. I'm also in my 30's and it's an all-consuming emotional state to be in. I ache for closure.

I'm in similar shoes as you...NC with one undiagnosed very disordered FOO member, but working out what's best with a couple others who enable them and their abuse. VLC at this time. Communication closed off due to a very stressful time of year and planning to revisit communication when I have it in me. Emails from them sitting unread for now. Numbers and social media blocked. Some messages coming in with an attempt to make things seem normal which makes it worse. But boy, am I twisted up inside about opening this back up again, dreading it; pitting my own heartbreak, pain, and hurt against giving them one last chance, and still in that bewildering state before deciding fullNC as a possibility and before running through all the other possibilities that mt still create hurt yet. Being caught between two feelings for sure, you put it very, very well.

I can't imagine how you feel with your uNF. But if he makes you feel bad and actively sabotages you I stand with you and support closing the door forever if that's what you need to do. You're not alone.

And yes, who doesn't want a dad? A mom? A loving sibling?!? It's so hard. You didn't get that growing up and it's not your fault. It's unfair you have to make this choice but again, not your fault. The emotional scars are the worst part, for real. The fact that we have empathy and they don't sets up for a lot of depression, anxiety, and self doubt. I've been on my own journey recalling and working through CA and neglect, even SA and PA I've come to terms with, but it's the EA that has hit me the hardest because it's effects are ongoing up until the present, and it's the last hold an abusive FOO can have on you even when they are long out of your life...

Sending some good healing vibes and strength your way, and nothing but support. You got this. You're validated here and from the way I see and read your message, you have every right to do that you feel is best to do for yourself, from what you describe. Love shouldn't feel bad! Especially with your dad. You've got people here who will validate you if NC is the way to go and all that FOO leave us with as a choice. I hope you feel better soon and here's a hug if you need it and if it's OK. 

I'm so sorry Phoebes  this is awful.

My guess is yes uNPD/tendencies/fleas and very, very covert. An ability to be nice to get the info they want from you, to soak in your presence and experience, then take that back to the poisonous FOO members to feed and pick it apart and think of ways to turn it into destructive fodder. It does not seem like genuine kindness or love if your D does this. And the FB posts very much seem like intentional passive aggressive jabs/swipes at you to keep you completely confused and guessing, to maybe coerce you or control you into doing something? More contact with other FOO perhaps? Bringing you into confrontation so they can offload more anger and emotion on you?

A FOO member I thought I was so close with all my life, who I thought nothing would ever come between us, did very similar. Passive aggressive FB posts aimed at me. Very subtle jabs. But an ability to be saccharine sweet and nice in my presence to completely throw me off, and even breadcrumbing me after abruptly distancing herself from me with no explanation.

I put it together that she was gathering info for other FOO about me for them to excitedly pick apart and analyze together (especially for my uNPD sib) and she could only be nice and pleasing to do that. It was all an act.

Hi Phoebes - this is definitely weird behavior! But I've experienced shades of it, just a little different.

Despite the differences, I can feel how irksome that would be to you. It's so, so annoying. My GC/uNPD sibling did similar for years ever since we were very very little, and it has always irked me. I never did much about it except vent to other FOO about it which (due to recent FOO blowouts) I realize in hindsight wasn't wise at all....though no real repercussions came from it.

I'd say it's definitely one of those subtle things you can add to the long list of other subtle things that siblings do that require watching and looking out for, and which might entail that distance would be good in a PD family...(the list with my sib is looooooong now)...that is, if things start to ramp up.

My first observation (with you and myself, too) is our siblings, whether directly PD/flying monkeys/have fleas/just around a PD, might take on that PD tendency to see us as extensions of themselves....so of course they'd have a right to your stories and experiences! There's no boundaries so it's automatically theirs, too (especially in enmeshed families). Maybe it's not a PD trait necessarily but something you could try boundaries with to start...

My GC/uNPD sib did this, though mostly not with my own accounts of abuse. She'd say things to others like: if someone laughed at my joke, complimented me, or even when we took in a stray cat when we were kids that I found myself, her story about it/recall would be "remember when I cracked that joke? S*** laughed so hard at that!" Or "remember when so-and-so said those nice things to me?" And then the story about my childhood cat we found as a stray, who loved me and I loved him so much. "You didn't find him. I did. Remember? He loved me and followed me all the way home. By all rights he's mine but I guess you can have him"

However, the more similar thing to your story about the molestation/abuse (and which I'm now questioning as an adult) is that, in the same spirit, my GC/uPD sib always sang the tune of "I was the only one abused (PA/SA/EA) in this family and I got it the worst." But then a year ago I pulled a loose string and her entire tapestry unraveled....to reveal that we all had been abused, she had possibly just stolen a great number of our own stories. I had to completely reconstruct the narrative of my childhood realizing this based on some very vivid memories I didn't ever want to closely examine. She possibly watched what happened to some of her own siblings and due to her PD, couldn't differentiate, and concluded that everything bad that happened in this family happened only to her.

I do believe she got the worst abuse. But she was not the only one. When telling her about my own memories, her response was to say they were untrue, deny them, and then insist what happened actually only happened to her.

I'm NC with this sib, but not based on her story-nabbing: mostly it is based on her inability to validate my own trauma (she thinks I'm jealous and want to be her, that's how she sees it) but also because she's started a smear campaign through my FOO against me, too. So yes, a little similar, but also a little different. And also, I totally empathize with and relate to realizing some things about the last family member you're close with and getting worried ...and realizing they might have fleas, tendencies at the least, or perhaps even a covert uPD that I had never really noticed or considered. It's hard and I'm sorry. 

Thanks y'all 

Just to quickly share, this article really helped me make the decision...the list part where it says "It's OK to say Goodbye If..."

https://wehavekids.com/family-relationships/Strained-Family-Relationships-When-You-Should-Cut-The-Ties-and-Say-Goodbye

(Is it OK to share articles?)

...and the part where it says that it might be time to part ways if stress is starting to interfere with home and work life. For years it's been affecting both, awfully. I have felt dysfunctional and terrified some days dealing with this and I would be perfectly happy and functioning if this background stuff was just gone.

So yes goodbye, for now  I hope not forever, but I will accept forever if they needs to be the case.

Hi all - thanks for being so present and holding the space for me in this thread and at this time 

I've decided to go completely NC with all FOO at this time and though I still get into those ruminating/guilt loops, I feel LOADS better (which is in it's own way shocking but that's starting to wear off). My M (who I'm starting to piece together, is very, very covert NPD tendencies) sent me a long email that I'm not even going to read until fall, I've decided. I'm too busy and don't want my time and emotion drained or stolen anymore by the scapegoating, and I'm trying to enjoy all the good things going in my life at present - and there's a lot of good things  I've been in such turbulence... I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but maybe it's time for them to shoulder the uncertainty for a while. It feels cruel but sometimes you gotta be cruel to be kind. Maybe they'll figure some things out during this time of much needed space.

Hi EdenJoy - I'm so sorry if my words were misplaced. I hope you find the therapist you're looking for, that sounds like a lovely solution. I wish I could find that for myself, too. This forum has been so helpful to me in ways that transcend a therapist, and even though mine was so helpful, it felt like only talking with others who *really* understood started moving the cogs towards healing with me. I have a long way to go. And I also felt some distrust with therapist still.... Some days just getting a message here from someone who really *gets* it was the only hope for restoring my trust in others or a light at the end of the tunnel. A therapist who has CPTSD (like Pete Walker) would be amazing. Take care and good luck on your healing journey  ♥️

Hi EdenJoy. Welcome to the forum 

First of all: I can very much relate to you. Only in my case, I've both not developed and lost attached relationships and this makes me very wary, and I have a very hard time getting close to or trusting my fellow human beings. I am not a social animal. I tend to have avoidant attachment tendencies.

Second: my first step in healing this has been not being hard on myself for being this way. It is not my fault, and it is not yours that we struggle with this, even if it's something you and I wish to improve.

In fact, placing the blame *off* of my shoulders for this, and embracing who I am (kind of a loner), has actually helped me in being a little less wary! If you can believe it. It was because of how I was raised and nurtured (or more accurately, not nurtured) that I cope in this way, and it is my early childhood trauma, not who I am, that is at fault - it was what was inflicted on me by others that is to blame, not me at all. That has been an enormous and healing release.

Don't be too hard on yourself. I still don't trust easily or have many close people in my life or closeness with family at this point, but realizing there is nothing inherently wrong with me and internalizing that has really helped me be more at ease with others....and that's a door opened to potential closer attachments with others, though that will always be slow. But at least it makes it possible. I still have my rough days with it where I'm hard on myself nonetheless. It's not perfect.

But I have boundaries and call all the shots ultimately of who I want to let in. And that's a good thing. Needless to say, I'm much more at ease with myself around others than I used to be, because I go into social interactions needing to protect myself, and seeing it this way has helped immensely...I don't get to be hurt again. That's the positive!

I am this way so I could survive and I have survived. It's helped me to honor that side of me instead of castigate it, or feel shame, or feel like something is wrong with me. This side of me is my "personal protector" and companion as I see it, and in that sense, I'm never truly alone - and the next step is talking to this protective side and asking it to lighten up a little sometimes if I'd like to be open to attachment with others. (If you haven't heard of it, I'd recommend Internal Family Systems Therapy, it's all about getting acquainted with the own innate/internal protective "family" within each of us).

It's very likely that you don't have any energy to deal with the world because you need to put all that energy back into yourself 🙂

I don't know if this resonates with you. But thought I would put all that out there. Internalizing others' reactions to me and my wariness also gets under my skin, too, and I easily get hurt and take things personally....I'm slowly learning that a lot of the signals, judgments, and behaviors that come at us from other people, though, almost never have anything to do with ourselves but is way more about the other person.

I've been listening to the Beyond Bitchy podcast (I heard of it through this forum - thanks y'all!) and in the early episodes she talks about the "Listening Boundary," which is also hugely helpful to me and might be helpful to you. It's knowing to sort your own reality out of the other realities other people try to superimpose on you (e.g. feeling hurt by someone's regard toward you and thinking it's all your fault, but then realizing it's actually because *they* are insecure about something....and might even be projecting that onto you).

Anyways I've blabbed too long. Hope this is helpful. And again, welcome. You'll get so many good tools and amazing support here. 🙂

Thank you Kizzie  I'm getting through it!

Thanks finding peace I love tea. So thank you!

There's even more updates since my last message...I had a heated text exchange with this former best friend sibling of mine. It confirmed many things I'd been suspecting. Her words did not sound like her own. It sounded all too much like my uNPDsis speaking straight through her, she said things that I know she wouldn't say unless she'd been very close and talking with her, and I felt her influence.

I had to block her. It hurts too much. All efforts to blame me for everything, no desire to see my feelings or existence. But I'm pretty sure I've lost her. And I need to move on. I just hope and pray that she doesn't become the new scapegoat, because I'm not sure she'd be able to survive.

Thanks finding peace, it's great to hear from you! And to just so happen to find this forum and see your post not too too long after you posted it

I'm so sorry you're getting the third degree from your brother....it is so discouraging, disorienting, and confusing when FOO butters you up to trust them only to kick you while you're down at the drop of a hat.

This forum and OOTF are both so helpful in putting logical context to it all and to understand why FOO does this. But the hardest part is it doesn't take away the pain and grief. I have no solutions for the pain and grief you're feeling as of now. Only that you can only ride it out, and that it does get better little by little, over time....but to keep doing the right thing, and that's looking out for yourself and protecting yourself where FOO fails and has failed to do so.

You seem to be in that pain and so am I. Both siblings that I have trusted have succumbed to FOO dysfunction very severely and I'm having to cut ties for now. A lot has happened since I wrote this first message and what's happened now is my non-PD sibling has been sucked into the disordered behavior of my other uNPD sib. I've lost her. Maybe for good. Along with my disordered sib, but I was closer with the other.

It's early for me in my journey and I, too, feel broken. I've heard from many others though who go no contact or low contact, or whatever works for their boundaries so they can heal from their CPTSD, that it does get easier. I don't see the light at the end if the tunnel quite yet but I do believe them. My flashbacks and anxiety are much better just cutting them out completely instead of trying to hold onto the corruption just for the sake of getting a tiny smidgeon of good from them for nostalgia's sake and because I love them. It hurts to have to separate from FOO so decisively and it's sad and can make you feel guilty but when you start feeling better, then I think you'll start to realize the true depth of the corruption and that it was really your only choice ....

I also NEVER thought I would lose my younger sib too ☹️ So I totally understand the bewilderment and heart break 💔 and a hug right back to you, finding peace! 🤗 We're not perfect people I'm sure but this sort of treatment at the hands of family nobody deserves, I stand with you too. You've done nothing wrong! Here's to healing and getting out to that better, brighter side of things ❤️