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[become]

Inspired by:

One way to start communication is to find common ground i.e. it's likely that all parts want to get better. Usually all parts can agree with this goal even though they are not likely to agree on how to achieve it in the beginning.

You may begin communication by agreeing how to spend leisure time or how best to complete chores.  It may take some time to communicate with all parts as they must feel safe enough to communicate.

I think I've found something that has to do with the root of my dissociation, and maybe will be a tool for recovery/management of it as well.

My parents have had a long and miserable marriage. For as long as I can remember they have had arguments, and they have been in therapy (on and off) for 30 years of their marriage that I know off, they have been in therapy during their 2,5 year divorce, and they have been in therapy (together!) for years after their divorce. 'Alternative' therapies of course, nothing evidence based. Well, perhaps the first few were, in which DramaMama then didn't get the full admiration of the therapist as she was being held accountable as well.

In the early stages of me coming out of the FOG in the last five years, I realized at some point that the relationship my sister had with me (I deliberately do not say "my relationship with my sister") consisted almost solely of her telling me what was wrong with me, with 'our' relationship' and that she so badly wanted to have a good relationship with me. I always thought is was fine. Or I should probably say "good enough".

The common denominator between these two relationships is that according to sis and the spouse of my father, a relationship is under constant revision/need for improvement, that it has to become a good relationship.
One important factor in me cutting contact with sis (that relationship was the first in which I went LC) was the realization that I couldn't understand why she kept hanging out with me if the relationship was so bad according to her. After which I quickly made the shift to: "why the * do I stay in that relationship then." And subsequently started taking the steps to set boundaries. (which I now know. I had no concept at all of proper boundaries at the time.)

So the imprint I have gotten from the dysfunctional marriage of my parents (copied by my sister, and I now know that the few 'romantic' relationships I have had were based on the same principle, save te last one that I quit for it being too comfortable (PTSD!)) is that the only 'good relationship' is one where there is something fundamentally wrong, and where the essence of a relationship is that the relationship has to improve.

I did realize at some point further down the path to recovery, that the essence of a relationship is that you say to yourself: "This relationship is good enough." (which of course doesn't mean that labeling an abusive relationship as 'good enough' is a good fix)

In my process of learning to cope better with my dissociation, and in the process of integrating the different parts of me, I have now made a note on my wall that the only thing I need to achieve is being able to tell myself that my relationship with/between my different parts is good enough. And I should probably try to start having that opinion from now on. It already is good enough. My different dissociated parts are to some degree strangers to each other, and for strangers they have a good enough relationship.

That I have different dissociative parts is the result of TherapistMom's incessant therapy on me that I needed to be fixed, that I had to get into contact with my feelings. While I probably was in perfect contact with my feelings as a child: it's DramaMama who didn't like my feelings and pushed me to have other feelings. She pushed me to not feel my feelings, dissociate from them. Her incessant pushing of me (and everybody else in her household) to "work on yourself" meant we were pushed to fix something that wasn't broken. She broke it for us. She broke our spirits.

So I hope that in a sense to stop "working on me" (which is a forced commitment my TherapistMom imposed on me (Discover your core commitments)) and to start from a position where my relationship with my different parts is good enough at this point in time may be of aid in my recovery.

 

silence cannot be misquoted..... anonymous.

(why No Contact is so important)

  meursault. Always a pleasure to see you around. 

I'm not a professional either, and am just discovering I dissociate, but in a of the book we are doing on dissociation (the one you are working with with your T) there is this question in one of the homework assignments:

There are various ways you can notice the presence of another part of yourself. Read the following examples and see if they fit your experience.  Below each example describe one experience of becoming aware of a part of yourself.

1.   You have lost time and discover that you have done something of which you have no memory, yet you know you must have done it

It looks like what you described with your friend fits the bill.

I don't think I dissociate, tho T has questioned me on the fact that It might be a possibility that I do and have more than I think. but, if I am not aware that I do, how would I know?

The book and assignments are a tool to become more aware of dissociating. Give it time, and you will steadily become more aware and with your T develop tools to handle it. 

[Now, could we move towards listening to what I'm saying and believing I have a right to say it?]

Maybe with your Dad you could explain that you are glad he does now hear you and see you. Now, could we move towards listening to what I'm saying and believing I have a right to say it? That kind of speaks to the 'new-ager' in his own language.

That's brilliant, and thanks for all you have said. I have a gut feeling my dad hates this talk as much as I do, so it might well be the perfect thing to say.

Regarding the "but"-s. I hate them too. Here on the forum I try to be very careful not to use it.

Your shared experiences re: "but", brings back memories of when the Fog started lifting with regard to my sister (I had no idea then that the FOG was lifting, but in retrospect I see that was the case) when I told her for the first time I wouldn't be visiting at her home and she was not welcome at my home either. (LC, so to speak. We could meet (and did after that), just my private space was off-limits to her, and her's to mine (from my point of view)). I can't remember the specifics of what I was saying in that same conversation, but I said something and made a full stop. Simply because that was all I had to say. She then replied with "But...?", as she expected one. To which I replied: "Eh? No "but". That's it." To the amazement of myself in a way. Which was partly the amazement of her expecting a "but" (I had been very clear I thought.) and amazement of me not falling for further explanation. It was one of the first instances I realized: "Why is it never enough with her? What the * could there be to "but" about? This is it. I've got nothing else to say, since I'm not thinking of something else."
It's probably the first time I didn't JADE when triggered to do so.

It's been five years since. Boy, is it tough to get it out of ones system.

This is an attempt that may well be self-mockery (which I find funny to do at times)

"I suffer from an inverse Oedipus-complex: I want to divorce the mother/wife my father refuses to divorce from. (even when she already divorced him.)"

[long]

I guess this is rather psychological abuse than emotional, but this board fits the bill regardless.

Inspired by the pavlov-dogs.

***trigger warning: this is about NOT being seen or heard and gaslighting***

I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with these terms. I'm only familiar with them via TherapistMom and Dad. Yet, to be frank, I haven't got a clue what these terms actually mean. My experience has been they do not mean what they appear to mean, imho.
This is a story of gaslighting.

My parents picked up these terms in therapy. The New Age kind of therapy. The unprofessional kind of therapy. My mom's kind of therapy.
My dad has used these terms exclusively in the context of apologizing to me (probably others as well), saying "I did not see you there and then" and "I did not hear you there and then". Well, that obviously does not give a clue as to what "seeing and hearing somebody" would actually be.
My mom uses these terms almost exclusively in te context of "I see you and hear you", after which (without fail) a boundary violation occurs. During the end of my relationship with her, when the FOG had started to lift, I started to notice that when she brought up subject A, and I said: "No I don't want to talk about it" I would get the "I hear you and see you" speech (and she has a whole array of psycho-babble that follows it) that could go on for minutes (in my experience) and when she was done with her mantra's and spells, after taking hardly a breath, would say: "but what I wanted to say about subject A..."
I even got to a point I laughed out loud in her face on one such occasion. (well, it was on the phone, but still...)

So I have been conditioned (there are pavlov's dogs) to tremble and fear whenever somebody expresses sentiments that indicate they 'see me' or 'hear me'. Thankfully only my parents use these words, but now that I am in more contact with my dad I realized he uses these terms, and I do not even long for him to see me or hear me.
Sure, I want to get validated, appreciated, understood, taken into account and all that (which would equate to being seen and heard I presume) but I get itchy even when he says he "feels so seen" by me. I know I should take it as a compliment (and I do), but I can't but feel resentment at the term. Which sort of interferes with the appreciation he expresses to me, it's like a filter that diminishes the brightness of the bond we could have, and possibly even already do have.

I guess at some point I will have to ask him to ditch those terms. I think for the rest of my life I will have an allergy to "being seen" and "being heard". The words that is. 

See Me, Feel Me - Listening to You by the Who

Hi saturnrings  and welcome. 

Teaching to special education children IS pretty tough. I presume these are children with (mental) disabilities? Not the special education for the 'young rocket scientists'. Although I assume teaching the latter category can be hard too.

Is this internship facilitated by a Dutch University? If so, you probably will be able to get free counseling (of sorts) from a "studentenpsycholoog".
I don't want to dismiss or belittle your experiences, but for a part what you are experiencing it may be pretty regular student-stress. I don't know how good your Dutch is, but "Ongeveer de helft van de studenten kampt met psychische klachten. Studiedruk, prestatiedruk, financiële druk, combinatie studie en werk, cv-building." (about half the student population has problems). So that part of your stress could possibly be addressed through the University itself.
Feel free to share your internship problems here as well.

For the remainder of cPTSD related issues I hope this site and community may be of help to you in your recovery.

Welcome again,

Dutch Uncle

[am]

This morning I had a bit of a shouting match with my dad. Well, match is not the right word, as it was only me doing the shouting.

I've entered a strange dualistic relationship with my dad since the call. Overall there has been a great improvement. So that's wonderful.
On the other side, and this was to be expected, he is trying to hoover me back into a relationship with my mother. The woman he considers his wife, despite the fact she divorced him 15 years ago. ("yeah,legally I'm divorced, yes", he said lately, in a manner that sounded like: "but what the heck does that have to do with anything." The guy is in full denial. I guess he is in an illegal marriage.  ) He has given me the "you have to forgive her", "she's your mother", "Never say never" etc, but I have stood firm.
Today he tried again, and I'm so happy I have found my voice and shout if I need to. NO NO NO, I NEVER want to see her again.
I guess I am making progress, as he now has said the relationships can be over for "99,99 and a lot of more 9's" % but never a full 100%. Well, there's no point in arguing against something like that, and in a way it's a shot for open goal for me to say: "I agree, but I'm in the 99,99etc. % category so you do the math on the chances of me hooking up with mom again." Which off course doesn't shut him up, he'll see that tiny chance a a wide open door to "try to fix things", but I made clear it isn't and he shouldn't. There were way more attempts he made, and each and every time I started shouting NO NO NO. And then more calmly beat his argument. So he got nowhere. he'll speak with his T/friend on it this week. Good.

A fun part was when we discussed that we have improved our relationship. I said to dad: "Yeah, you can do what they can't." Which is true. That actually made him laugh. Which is great. And I think it may work in many ways, I think my dad is slowly beginning to see that all the gossip and smear campaigns DramaMama and DramaSis have poured over him (and everybody else) over me and their relationship with me doesn't quite cut it. He now sees it's perfectly possible to have a more pleasant relationship with me. And the beauty is, it's simply because I am now being me (without the fear of 'mom' looking over his shoulder) and he is just being him. Possibly as well because somehow 'mom' is not standing in his way either. I really have the idea my dad is now not acting a role he thinks he has to, but rather has dropped the role he thought he had to play. I have pretty strong indications from what he says and writes that "[he is] dropping the socially warranted replies" etc.

So it's really odd that on one hand things have improved remarkably, and on the other hand the horror of the expected Flying Monkey is in full swing as well. I guess only time will tell which side the coin will fall onto.
I did make a threat today, I said he was playing with fire if he would keep on pressuring me to go back to 'mom'. I have not set a time or amount on it, mostly because I don't know when time, effort or energy will run out for me. But I'm personally of firm resolve I will follow through when I feel I have to, and cut contact with him too. As it is, I do have the idea I really am getting somewhere with him. And lets face it: his worldview is upside down at the moment, so I should give him some time to process this. His saintly wife who dumped him and he since venerates even more, is now being "shoved aside" (his words) by his son. And his son violently (verbally that is) states and repeats time and again he does not want to have to do anything with her, ever again. He wants to go back to her, and does go back to her time and again (only to be given a narcissistic discard when it suits 'mom' of course, while undoubtedly feeding him some crumbs in between... keep the hope alive, keep the supply under reach... it's so sick...) and I am flat out refusing to even make amends. (well, 99,99etc % flat.  )
Meanwhile I get the opportunity to throw more 'dirt' at mom and sis. I'm spilling the beans when he starts pushing me, and I have decided I will continue to do so. It's good for me to get it all out, and quite possibly it stirs a lightbulb with him too. Because of course all that has happened that has lead me to go No Contact has also happened to him. So he may resist, but he knows what I'm talking about.
Now, I have no illusions he will 'quit' with them, but there might just be a possibility he will give up hovering me. I'm seeing some signs. And that is all I want: He leaves me 'divorced' from the DramaQueens, and I will leave him married to them.

I'll do my best not to bring up 'mom' myself again, and also not to grab every opportunity to go 'mental' on the DramaQueens when he mentions them, but I have given myself a pass I may do so when he brings 'reunification' up.
I'm done being silent, and I'm done being the invisible child.

All of this started because I stood up for myself.
[...]
Oddly, this negative event is helping me to find myself again...

I can relate.
It's hard to get this backlash for doing so, but I firmly belief it's the one step forward that will reap so much rewards in the (distant) future, that no matter how this will turn out, it will have been worth it.

Of course the rewards will pour in sooner than you expect.  :fingers crossed:

[and my therapist is on my side with the plan]

Hi Contessa, 

I can't say I have any good ideas. Character assassination is something I have experienced in my FOO, but I have never been able to successfully thwart it. That's why I'm here, I suppose.

So. I refuse to run away. This is my workplace, my career, my reputation. These are my colleagues, and friends being turned against me. I do not and will not accept this.

I do have a plan to work through this in non confrontational way, and my therapist is on my side with the plan. They have noted that this guy is a possible sociopath.

This all sounds excellent. The support from your T is great, and probably it's a good idea to keep her well in the loop. And to discuss with her when and where the plan needs to be adjusted. Because it will have to be adjusted, as new developments arise. These changes might be subtle, or large, and at times new developments will tell you both: "Right! We stick to our plan. This is what we expected."

I recently saw a VLOG titled "Give the narcissist sociopath enough rope and he'll hang himself". The content of the video is irrelevant to your case, but I think the title is. And I know this from personal experience, though only in hindsight.
It's all the 'tells' that my DramaMama has given me because I was avoidant and 'meek' at the time and let her ramble on, that in the end provided me with all the clues I needed to tell she's a HPD.
Probably the sociopath at work will do the same for your colleagues to notice. If they will notice his 'tells' or not... not much you can do to influence that.

This Vlog might actually have some bearing on what you will be going through the next period:
When Dealing with a Narcissist Sociopath, Patience Is More Than Virtue. It's Strategy.
edited to add the subtitle of the vid is:
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Which fits with your "non-confrontational" plan, I think. 15:55 (16:20) to 19:40 may fit into the strategy you've drawn up, and may be predictive of what will happen. 

Wishing you well, and please do post any updates if you feel it will aid you in this smear campaign he's pulling on you.

[she]

I really need to move forward to a new step in my recovery, and in my process of grieving.
I also feel it's time, I'm ready for it.

I've been watching this Vlog (Narcissism Losing a Sibling to Triangulation) a couple of times now and it has made quite an impact. I think I have seen it before, but now I was struck by his insistence to NOT "educate" ones siblings (or by extension the other parent, other family or other 'dear ones' of the Narcissist) especially if one has identified them as narcissist too. But even quite possibly to not "educate" non-narc 'dear ones' who are all victims of the narc's abuse by definition. Even a Golden Child.
In shorthand: to stop JADEing to anybody.

I've spend the last years learning about narcissistic abuse, and other abuse, and identified with plenty. Too much probably. And by that I don't mean I identified with abuse that was not inflicted on me, but that learning about all this abuse has re-traumatized me. To an extend that has also been part of my healing journey, as per my sig:

To pursue the path of healing we need to remember what we have endured. Restoring ones sense of self means restoring memory, recognizing what happened. Without memory there is no healing --- Desmond Tutu

I have had a huge need to JADE to anybody who would listen. And to anybody who would not listen. I managed to keep it very low profile with my FOO (I just named a few actions and specific behaviors to explain/justify my NC, never used the word narcissist or anything close. I kept it to telling my remaining FOO what it did to me, why I disapproved of it, and did also appeal to possible shared experiences. (f.e. when I said the never ending boundary violations where a reason to go NC.)
I never dared to go further than that, which was partly fear of not being believed, but also because I had prior knowledge it wouldn't work anyway. Thanks to my extensive study/research on going NC with family members.

Now that I have gone NC with DramaMama and DramaSis for over 1,5 years now (with the occasional 'slip of the tongue'), my recent 'coming out' to dad why I went NC with DramaMama, and my little bit more recent announcement of LC with PsychoBro to his face, I also feel the need to JADE lessen.
Bro had his umpteenth chance to actually engage in conversation, and passed for the umpteenth time. Granted, all the other chances he has gotten were far less confrontational than this one. So that he didn't bite now is no surprise. But it still doesn't change the fact it has been the umpteenth time. And I want it over and done with. I'm pretty sure he is ASPD anyway.

So I'm basically left with only AspergersDad, and it seems I'm actually making some progress there. I must try to keep a cool head, as an Aspergers will never be able to fill the emotional void, which he assisted in being created in the first place. So why would things be much different from now on. He's been the enabler for sure, Aspergers or not. That's bad enough, and there's no sign in him letting up on that either. The best I can hope for is that the subject of DramaMama a.k.a. his wife "I love very much" (still) will once more disappear in the void of silence, where she has been in the 15 years since she left him. I probably will have to make little effort to make that happen in any case, but I have already decided I will call him on the previous 15 years of silence if he will not stop suggesting to me to 'forgive her, she's your mother after all". That I now have cut contact with her is not a reason to suddenly to end his 15 tears of silence over her.

I'm as sure as I will ever be able to get that TherapistMom is a Histrionic PD with probably all sort of nasty cluster-B comorbidities. My latest reminder of her wishing her former friend her comeuppance on the funeral of her husband has once again solidified by conviction she has the same in store for me, my dad, my sister and my brother in particular. She must gleefully watch how he has messed up his marriage and how his children pay the price. She had predicted he would get in trouble "once he would get a wife" when she instructed me to not resist te torture he inflicted o me in the living room in full sight of anybody present.
That's one masterpiece she has created, and the narc loves to see the reflection of him/herself, her craftiness, her beauty and her omnipotence. Well, she had predicted all this set bro up for this misery 40-odd years ago. She must feel proud she knew that non-interference (neglect) would mean bro's inevitable downfall. And she needed me in her scheme, couldn't have me resist and mess up her plan for him.
She's a patient women: she waited 15 years for her friend to get her payback after all.
The mess with my bro is a gift that keeps on giving, as his marriage is already in shambles for 10 years, in full view to anybody (before that it was more covert). And it will continue to be like this for at least another 3 years. I wouldn't put it passed her if she is the one who keeps delaying the divorce my brother so craves, and actually already has set many steps to achieve, but then backing out when the jump has to be made. Not surprisingly, the longer the divorce is postponed, the messier it gets, and the messier the eventual divorce will be.

But as said, I'm out of that loop. I will not see my Bro's FOO until he gets divorced, basically, which is postponed for at least three years.

So here's to no more research on narcissism, no more gathering of more 'proof', no more sidesteps into "the narc's spouse' and 'siblings of narc parents' etc etc etc.
I know where I'm at. My position is well defined.

From now on it will be ME, ME , ME and MY, MY , MY recovery.
That sounds scary narcissistic, but what the *.
I know it's time to put me first. I will not explain a damned thing anymore.

I'm moving on.

I will take a look at your link thank you DU. Can you tell me what grey rock is please?

http://180rule.com/the-gray-rock-method-of-dealing-with-psychopaths/

I chose the words Gray Rock because I needed an object for us to channel when we are in an emotionally charged situation. You don't just practice Gray Rock, you BECOME a Gray Rock. There are gray rocks and pebbles everywhere you go, but you never notice them. None of them attract your attention. You don't remember any specific rock you saw today because they blend with the scenery. That is the type of boring that you want to channel when you are dealing with a psychopath. Your boring persona will camouflage you and the psychopath won't even notice you were there. The stranger in the sushi bar showed great insight when he advised me to "be boring." He struck at the heart of the psychopath's motivation: to avoid boredom.

The mind that opens to a new idea never returns to its original size.

Albert Einstein