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Perhaps it's enough right now to feel safe here and when you (all parts of you) are ready, it will begin to carry over into real life?  That's what I find is happening, I think because here I say things here that I could not imagine ever talking about two or three years ago. Doing so (talking here) has brought the shame and fear way down and while I still freeze,  it's for shorter periods and less intense.

Hope you are able to take heart from this 

Thank you Kissie, you are right that maybe being here now is enough. When you say about all parts of me feeling safe you couldn't be  more accurate- I have parts of me that are stuck in the past. Have you experience of this? I hope I haven't freaked anyone out by saying that! All I mean is that part of me remained in that house (where the worst of my childhood was lived) and I'm hoping that one day soon those parts can emerge. They won't come out until they feel safety has been proved. Just writing about that is helping me reduce the shame that's attached, which is just what I want. Thank you again. Can I ask how you define the periods when you freeze? Do you mean freezing in a place, or while you're doing a certain triggering activity?

Sadly, yes--I too recognized the freeze characteristics as soon as I saw them described, especially in the Walker book. It all resonates here with so much of my story that the experiences would drive me dizzy if I ever tried to count them. Tons of 'em, some involving jobs, others just simnple relationships, but all where I gave in to trust, thinking it was safe, and just got sabotaged again, sending me back to freezeland. It's awful but I did succeed well in one area--loneliness. Except then I often can't even relate to myself anymore.

I can tell myself I'm solitary (a positive ) but I know I'm just covering for my loneliness (the downer ). The one true comfort is I knew I had to isolate to survive; others call it running away, I knew it as my only option. And I'm not going to blame 'me' for that anymore, at least.

I recently re-started seeking help via therapy. So far, so good, but I also carry this residue of hopelessness, as it's been soooo long. As I told the t, I'd just like to sit down and cry for about 50 years, as a start; 'cause nothing else holds any relief.

Even in therapy, as you say, it's possible to overstay a situation that wasn't working out. My difference this time is that I'm more desperate than ever, but I started before with the same premise. Yet every time I go back to pure isolation...well, you know (too well) what I'm driving at.

This has been just a long-winded way to say I relate to everything you're dealing with, no_more_fear; and then some. Thank you for being here. 

Hi woodsgnome,

I'm sorry that you're in a similar situation to me. It's bittersweet for me-sweet because I felt a sense of relief that someone understands this and has made progress with it, which gives me hope, but also bitter in the fact that anyone else knows what it's like to live like this, which is, as you know, exceptionally hard.

When you said aboout the freeze situations it was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me. I realised how often I freeze and never realised before. Like last night, for example, I really wanted to read my book so much but yet couldn't seem to stop surfing the internet. I was screaming inside my head to just go read my book, but yet I couldn't. Can you relate to this at all? Would it be considered a form of freezing?

When you say you've made progress with lonliness, in what way do you mean? Is it that you're more comfortable with being alone now? That's really great that you feel satisfied at some moments, if that's in fact what you mean.

I'm so glad you came to the conclusion that you had to isolate to survive-that's an example of self-compassion.  You helped me realise that too, so thank you.

That's great that you re-entered therapy. I'm not ready to try again myself. The hopelessness you describe is so familiar. I could virtually drown in it sometimes. I think, at least in my case, it's related to learned helplessness. My FOO continually said how helpless they were and it's why I was still in contact with them until a year ago-I too felt helpless to get away. Something that has really helped me  in that regard is a hypno track from the spartianlifecoach-the track is part of his first aid kit which I bought a while ago. In the audio he says how you can and will get better. Simple, but effective. I highly recommend the course. Have you done any courses like that? It's for victims of narcisstic abuse. Would that be relevant to you?

Thank you for saying that you're glad I'm here. That one line helped me so much because it's like, someone is glad to have me around.

Thank you for replying, you heped my day more than you know.

Hi everyone,

I knew I was a freeze type right from the off, but when I heard it was the hardest to treat I got so scared that I quuickly ran into therapy and stayed in a situation that wasn't working for me for four months. I had no concept of what a good relationship was and therefore didn't realise how bad it really was for me. I finally extracted myself from that situation but ran straight into another relationship like this, only worse. The relationship began at an ACOA group. The whole thing was largely my fault. I put far too much stock in the relationship and the woman began like a mother to me. I finally realised what I'd done and extracted myself from that situation after another four months and have sunk into the abandonment melange. I know that I'm using all this as a reason to self-isolate even more than I already was before, but I don't see how I can begin a new relationship with a T or even a would-be friend when I'm attracted to certain types. I feel safe in this community and nowhere else. Is anyone else a freeze type who's working on recovery themselves, or has had similar experiences? It'd b great to know I'm not alone. Thanks.

Thanks DutchUncle and MorningDove for your replies. I know I've said it before, but I'm really going to try and stick around this time. I keep attracting the wrong type of people in real life and denying how much they trigger me. That leads to denial in all areas of my life, including getting better. I've made a decision not to begin relationships with anyone untiil I at least have proper boundaries in place.

I'm sorry you don't have a copy of the book anymore, Morning Dove. Hopefully we can sort something out with that. I'm going to contact a moderator about starting up a thread that's framed around this book. The support would be fantastic, especially for those of us like me and DutchUncle who are having trouble finding a T. I'm on chapter 7 myself, but would like to go through the previous questions, or even an assortment of them, discuss the grounding techniques explored etc. I'll let everyone know when I know more myself.

Hi everyone,

I'm so sorry I've been away for so long-I've been in a really bad place. I've been in serious denial about the extent of my freeze response, finally stopped avoiding and have begun to read the Suzette Boon book-Coping with Trauma related dissociation. It was recommended in the Pete Walker book. I was wondering if anyone else is reading it? It's amasing and one of the only things to have helped me. I can't get a therapist and am so unbelievably overwhelmed with all of this, so was hoping maybe a thread could be started for people who are also reading it? Maybe we could discuss the homework questions that accompany each chapter, per week? Something like that anyway.

Thank you everyone. 

Hi Vik,

I'm so sorry that you're going through so much at the minute and all of this has come up for you. While I don't have experience of self-harm I'd say that you're trying to re-regulate your emotions. You'll eventually find a healthier way of doing that, but don't feel ashamed of doing that for now, you don't know a better way yet. Do you know about EF's? You're maybe in one and trying to manage your emotional state.

I wanted to let you know that you're not alone with any of this. I too am afraid to walk outside for constantly thinking I'll be attacked. That thing you said about  feeling so uncomfortable when people look at you, I have that too. I'm in the process of fighting those feelings. With me they relate to perfectionism and how I won't possibly be able to live up to what people expect from me.

I want you to know that you can and you will get better. I think one of the reasons we get so down and full of despair is because we think we'll always be like this, but we won't. Just by coming here and reaching out for help means you want to get better and that's half the battle. If you want it, you will get better and we'll be here every step of the way.

Well done for posting and making this great first step.

I'd love to know if it's possible to feel these things again. Mostly what I feel, and I think this is common for us, is anger and frustration. I can access those feelings no problem, but the rest? Nope.  Well, very seldomly anyway.

I think we have to practise feeling good. Because of our pasts we're so used to feeling bad and find it incredably hard to feel anything but negative emotion. With me it's a fear that something bad will happen if I let my guard down and relax. I bought the first-aid kit from the spartianlifecoach and use that mostly for my recovery and he says that the more you practise feeling good, the more you will feel good.

What I do these days is read humourous books, even though I rarely have any emotional engagement with them and watch things like stand-up comedy, even though I rarely laugh  I love watching funny cat videos but what often happens with them is theres some kind of dramatic moment, like a cat jumping out of the shadows. That kind of thing increases my heart rate, so I stick with fairly sedate things.

Another thing to do is focus on goals. I write, so I've started a novel. Every day that I manage to write a chapter or something I feel really good. Make yourself do the things that will lead to you accomplishing goals.

What was said by Trace, what were you like before, that's impossible for me because I've suppressed positive emotion my whole life, so there is no before.

Anyway, I think with practise we can start to feel these things. Start engaging in activities, like watching stand-up comedy, that might provoke it.

Dutch Uncle,

Thanks for your reply. You're completely right about cutting my losses and moving on. I really didn't like meeting her, but when I was with her it was alright because I'd slip into fawn mode. After I'd left her and when I'd switched back to myself I would start to consider what she'd said and how I'd felt at the time, which was very uncomfortable.

I was watching a Lisa A Romano YouTube video just now and she said how codependants will stay in a relationship that's not working because the brain associates more pain with the lonliness of cutting contact. Apparently we have to train ourselves to associate more pain with staying. I tell you, that was like a lighbuld moment!

Again thank you. I'm so grateful for the love and support here.

Hi all,

God, I'm so unbelievably pissed off at the minute, although if I'm honest I'm really covering up my sadness. This issue has been bothering me for a week or more but I kept dismissing it's significance. Let me explain.

So, I started setting boundaries recently. I've always been a huge people-pleaser in the past and have agreeded to most anything so that people will like me and therefore not abandon me. My friend had asked me to be bridesmaid at her wedding, the catch was, the wedding would be held abroad. We're not close, so I was surprised, but happy. I was so bowled over by the fact that someone apparently liked me enough to ask me to be a part of their wedding that even though I could in no way afford it, I said yes. She told me she would pay for me to go, so I stopped worrying about the financial issues. I need my partner at my side through everything and decided I'd somehow manage to find the money to pay for him to come. I don't work because of disability and my partner only works part-time. Me and my partner can't even afford to go away ourselves. We haven't been away together in years, but I still put her happiness first.

She texted me a while ago and said that instead of paying for my whole trip she would give a small amount to me and my partner to put towards the cost. I think this was a manipuation to be honest so it looked like she was giving more when actually it was less. This amount was in no way enough and would barely have covered one flight each. I've been thinking about boundaries a lot lately and decided to tell her that I couldn't go.

When we met last week she actually brought up the topic of how maybe it was too much pressure being bridesmaid considering everything that's happened in my life lately, like finding out I have C-PTSD etc. I said yes and thought I could get out of going to the wedding that way and therefore not have to bring up the monetry situation and thereby make her feel bad. She then offered that I come as a guest. I thought about it and said no and confessed that it'd really been about money the whole time and I was too scared to tell her the truth in case she got mad. She laughed and said no she wouldn't get mad, that she understood. Then a bit later in the conversation she said, 'nobody else better drop out of the wedding otherwise I'll get mad.' What the *? She knew I was worried about her getting angry and then she says that!?

Since that day I haven't heard from her. That was nine days ago. It's never been anywhere near this long since I've heard from her before, so I know she's not going to contact me. She knew I was seeing a new T this week and she never asked me how it went, although to be honest, she was never very interested in what I was doing. Anytime I met her it was torture because she wouldn't ask me any questions about myself. I could onlly last two-hours at a push. It was such a struggle to think of conversation. She had something big herself going on this week and I know she would have contacted me to tell me about that, so I'm nearly positive she won't contact me again.

I didn't get on with her that well. You know it's that codependant thing where you take anyone that actually shows up! I'm pretty sure she's a covert narc anyway because I always felt bad after I met her due to things she said. The main point is that I'm so isolated, I've only got my partner now as I went NC with my FOO a few months ago and her going off like this has brought up all my feelings of abandonment again and stuck me in a never ending EF.

I hesitated about posting this but I'm desperate to know if anyone gets this or has a similar story. I mean, this is what happens when you start setting boundaries, isn't it? I just need to know that I have you guys, some people who are with me. I feel so alone.

I'm sorry this has been such a long post and thank you for reading.

PaintedBlack,

I just wanted you to know how much your message meant to me. Everything you say resonates with me so much and we all know exactly where you're coming from in this, so don't ever worry that you're not doing anything right, but yeh, that ICr will no doubt say this a hundred more times, but now you can keep coming back to this thread to see how wrong that ICr is and how we all really feel, if you know what I mean.

So often I think that people won't be able to understand what I'm saying because I barely do most of the time  My thoughts are so often jumbled that I delete what I write because I think it's come out all wrong! I hope I've made a bit of sense though. What I really want you to know is that we're all here with you, feeling what you feel and thinking those same thoughts.

I'm so glad it worked out for you  .

How do you feel about using the local workout studio? Do you feel okay about it?

Good on you for turning the situation around. See, you do make good decisions.

For some if its like , all of the time, it doesnt feel good to be away from reality however. Derealisation doest feel good but sometimes feels like you are in reality.
Do u have this?

I'm trying to think about this and I think derealisation may be my bigger problem. Most of the time I get really scared and now that I'm thinking about it, it may be because of the lack of reality because I've never liked the feeling. I don't know. I'm sorry I'm in an EF at the minute and I can't think straight.

In my ACOA group I get a big reality crash. During my sessions with my old T it wasn't reality, I knew that. So I do want to be back in reality, I know that much.

nmf 

For some if its like , all of the time, it doesnt feel good to be away from reality however. Derealisation doest feel good but sometimes feels like you are in reality.
Do u have this?

I'm trying to think about this and I think derealisation may be my bigger problem. Most of the time I get really scared and now that I'm thinking about it, it may be because of the lack of reality because I've never liked the feeling. I don't know. I'm sorry I'm in an EF at the minute and I can't think straight.

In my ACOA group I get a big reality crash. During my sessions with my old T it wasn't reality, I knew that. So I do want to be back in reality, I know that much.

Hi arpy1,

I'm sorry this EF has been so deep and I'm really glad my message helped a little bit.

I wanted you to know never to blame yourself for trusting the wrong people. You're fragile at the minute, so it's completely understandable. Similarly I had a T who really messed me up. I don't know if she was a bad person per-se, but her approach wasn't correct. She was encouraging me to indulge in all my behaviours and also told me EF's weren't real. I knew it wasn't working with her, but it took me months to extricate myself from the situation. I wanted it to work so badly. What I''m trying to say is, don't be hard on yourself, this is a huge learning curve for us, so we're bound to have issues with trusting the wrong people. You do have the ability to mke good decisions, it's just that when you're in an EF you can't see things clearly. At least, that's the case with me. Work on staying grounded. Make a mental note of what you see, hear, feel, taste and touch. Being grounded is all that's saving me right now. Try and countrol what you're focusing on as well and try and observe, rather than be caught up in, the EF.

How are things today? I hope this EF has ebbed a bit.

Thinking of you.

nmf 

I remember that feeling coming over me everytime I was with my NM, as in my limbs got tingly etc-I assume that's because of the oxytocin or some chemical that was released from my brain. So I remember that, which is why I started equating my NM as a calming influence, becuse I'd become addicted to the dissociation which happened when I was around her. It was what happened with my old T who I was scared of. It sounds wierd, but what I'm trying to say is that when I was with my NM I wasn't in reality anymore, I'd gone to a 'happy place' that felt so much nicer than reality. Because of my lack of memories from then I don't know if I was aware of it or not. I don't think I knew what it was, but I was aware that this feeling came over me when I was with her.

Thank you for saying about that about me going to see a new T. Nice woman but she was unaware of narcissism and hadn't even dealt with anyone who'd had childhoood trauma, so I won't be going back, but I will keep looking.

Hope you're doing okay.