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Hi.  Very happy to help out  now that I know it's welcomed by the mods.  So pleased so many people are joining and getting c-ptsd discussed more and more.

Libby

Thanks for your response a.a.

I knit and sew clothes for myself.  I have done tapestry and cross stitch.  My favourite projects are knitted blankets. I have a basic pattern but there are so many colour and design variations that each one is so different.   Creating something is so satisfying and I have found these things really helpful in coping with depression and cptsd symptoms.

All the best to you and thanks for your interest.   It's so nice to feel part of things here, isn't it?

Libby.

I think that your lyrics are wonderful.  I can hear the pain in your words so that even though the meaning is specific to you, I can certainly relate to a lot of what you are saying,  and to me, that is what makes a good song.  Something that causes people to think and relate the words to their own feelings.

Well done and keep on with your writing.   I think you have a definite gift and anything creative is so helpful in coping with c-ptsd.   For me, it is knitting,  sewing and generally making things for the house. To have an end result you are pleased with is so worthwhile.

All the best.

Libby.

Oh, Whobuddy. You are so right.  Even at the age of fifty,  I can still hear my mother laughing at my mistakes. Not the scoffing laughter you suffered,  but a more quiet, more superior laugh, but still full of ridicule. 

And you are so spot on, Candid. No one in the family ever notices.  I remember that in many childhood photos,  especially the official school ones, my gcsis was always pictured upright and smiling and animated.   But I was sad,  and slouched and looked so pitiful.   These school photos were given to grandmothers each year so that whether at home or in their houses it was always commented "Look at Puddleglum spoiling the photo!"  This was my nickname because I was so miserable.  But no one,  especially my parents ever gave a thought to why I was so miserable - it was just my fault,  a defect in me,  nothing to do with their treatment of me.

My autistic son always looked extra unhappy on school photos, compared to his siblings.   I don't think I gave any of these photos to my parents,  and quickly stopped buying them at all.  I didn't want a repeat of my childhood.   I said to my children that we could buy them something new with the money instead. They liked this idea and when questioned by the teacher as to why their parents didn't buy the photos,  my son told them "we don't need them because my mum knows what we look like."  He was very proud of this reply so it is another of our nice family stories. 

Thanks for listening again!

Libby.

I suppose all families have their "in"  stories and jokes, but it seems that the dysfunctional ones use this tactic more and it is definitely intended to hurt.   My FOO had quite a few stories that they liked to tell every time we saw them.  One was about how my one year old sister and I,  age two,  were outside playing.  Nm was inside but saw sister toddling down the road, just as the only bus of the day was due.  Mother heroically saved her from certain injury or death.   It was told as such a sweet and funny tale, but it was always stated that I had let her out, knowing the bus was due and that my aim was to get rid of her because I was jealous.   How can such a dark tale be so funny?   How did a two year old know the bus was due? Sister was always as tall/big as me and "so advanced for her age",  maybe she got herself out?   Why wasn't devoted mother taking better care if two very young children?   These queries were never raised - we all had to listen and laugh.

Talking of advanced GCsis,  another FOO lovely story is how she was sent, from the age of three, to the local shop about five minutes away.   She was sent as she was so advanced that she could ride a bicycle and I couldn't.   Nm said she wasn't worried that sister would have an accident because she was so clever but she did worry that she may be abducted. Nm must have decided it was worth the risk and seems to believe that the fact that sister never came to any harm was a reflection on mother's perfect parenting. Never once,  in all of it's telling,  did anyone question nm's reasoning.

For me, probably the worse was how even when I was an adult,  nm would happily admit to having beaten me frequently.   The fact that she said this should have been positive but she finished her stories with the phrase "and it never did you any harm!" 

Over time, stories about my children were added to their repertoire, like mocking my daughter's dislike of raspberries for desert every day, and her bizarre request to have less cream and sugar with them. By that I mean daughter laughed at for not wanting to be forced to eat something because her grandparents liked it.

I am so sorry to have written all this because I still worry that this is just normal family stuff and that I have no reason to question the motivation of my parents.  They never accepted that they were anything less than perfect.   

Also, I have nothing to compare them to. The only other family I have an insight to are my in-laws.  They don't do family "in" jokes, but I have come to realise that that might be because they don't really do "family".  They seem not to care about anyones' opinions or feelings.  I have been part of two families where the parents were wholly self-centred,  but one highly enmeshed and one highly dismissive. 

I think my husband and I succeed quite well in being somewhere between our two families,  and have some lovely stories of our children. For example, at two years old dd got twin brothers but she decided just to 'like' one each day.  Nm didn't like this, but we understood how overwhelmed she was so we turned it into a positive for her.  Most of my FOO family stories were to show how jealous I was of GCsis.  For all of our family difficulties,  jealousy has not been one of them.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.  It's only on this site that I can get these feelings out of my system.   If only I could let go of the need for my FOO and my in-laws to listen to me.

Best wishes everyone.

Libby

Hello and welcome MarieKT.

I really understand what you are saying. 

It sounds like you have done a lot of healing.   You sound like a very brave and kind and forgiving person to be able to say that  you accept that your F is a flawed person who you now want the best for. I think that is amazing.  I accept that my abusive parents were flawed but have no relationship with them (mostly their choice) .  I certainly can't feel that I wish them well. It seems that you have reached a healthy position with regards to your father.

But you are so right and it is something I am struggling with - the feeling that I am what I am now,  that I will always be tainted by the past.  My nm's abuse started from the day I was born,  I believe.  I was always told that I was so wanted (to ease the pain of her own unhappy childhood) but was such a disappointment because I didn't love her enough and didn't think she was good enough for me!   I was only a baby.  Years of emotional and physical abuse followed,  enabled by father.  I hear you absolutely.   What sort of person would we have been without that deeply ingrained negative self image, all of the anxiety and the direction our lives took as a result of the harm done to us in our formative years. For me, the big issue is social relationships.   I can talk to anyone and come over quite well.   Nm hated this and would tell me I was too "big for my boots". I talk to people and get on well initially but cannot maintain any sort of relationship.  I am too anxious and simply cannot trust anybody other than my h and children. How I have stayed married for 25 years and maintained a good relationship with my grown-up children,  I will never know. Perhaps I am not all bad.

Getting to grips with c-ptsd (undiagnosed as doctors in the UK seem clueless,  but I relate to every aspect)  has led me to a realisation that this is me now.   I have accepted that I will never have real friends - just pleasant interactions with a few neighbours and some nice people I meet regularly when I walk my dog. I have lost contact with my one friend of 30years and am not sad.  I just want to leave the past behind and not be involved with people who make me unhappy.  I even feel like this about my in-laws.  In 25+years not one of them has ever taken the slightest interest in me.  They shut me down and invalidated me whenever I tried to explain my past and explain (apologise)  for some of my strange behaviour.  They just did not want to know and all effort to visit etc was on us. I feel let down by everyone throughout life, except for my h and children and dog.

Like you said, there seems no way to change any of this.   Do you ever feel that you have tried and failed to undo the damage your early experiences have to your life?  I really do so I have decided to concentrate on the people and things that matter to me.  No one else cares so they won't judge.   I have had a lifetime of trying to please people who don't care as groomed by nm to do.  It is about accepting what we can't change, I think.  Perhaps I was never meant to be sociable,  who knows.   What I am still so upset about is how pretty much all of my pleasure in my early marriage and in my childrens' early lives was stolen from me by my mother.  I hate her for this so have decided the best thing is to make up for this now,  as best I can. Anxiety has stopped me doing so much with my family,  for example,  we have never had a holiday,  but in two weeks time I am accompanying my dd on a trip abroad. It is connected to her neuroscience research into the effects of stress on the brain.  Very apt, I think. I am very anxious and will have to face up to a lot of my fears but I am doing it for her and for me.

Sorry to have rambled on about myself so much.   What I am trying to say is that I think you are right when you say that you might just have to accept some of the damage that has been done. Then we can move on,  without punishing ourselves for things that we did not cause,  and get something new and rewarding and enjoyable out of life, whilst not trying to change what is such an integral part of us and our history.

I hope this makes some sense and wish you every success and happiness in your life

Best wishes

Libby

Hi to you.

I just wanted to give you a welcome and say that I understand absolutely everything you have said in your post. It's amazing that the stories of the people here are so similar regardless of age, gender,  where we live etc.   It just shows how real it is, what we are going through.

You clearly have a really good grasp of the damage that has been so unfairly done to you.  Since learning of c-ptsd, I have felt such a relief,  just like you have, and I really have started to make progress.

I wish you well in your healing. I am sure you are absolutely on the right path,  and I am sure you will find lots of support here as I have done.

Best wishes.

Libby.

Hi serene.

I think that candid is right - it's best to only discuss child abuse with people who share the same experience.  However,  I have found that I sometimes drop a small reference to it into conversation,  when it seems relevant.   Just yesterday, I was talking to someone I was acquainted with years ago whilst walking our dogs.  It was about her job and I mentioned mental health issues which led to us talking a lot about our own problems with our parents.  It was, I believe,  really helpful for both of us.  I also have another dog walking friend,  who made an initial comment to me, and we have talked a lot about our pasts since then.  I think it's about judging the situation very carefully,  not giving too much information and only sharing with those who really get it.

I really wanted to respond to you about your Mil.  She reminds me of my nm.  When I first met my dh, she absolutely slated every aspect of his appearance to me.  It was all said in the most calm and reasonable way, as if it was the most socially acceptable and normal way to behave when you meet your daughter 's first boyfriend. After that,  she ramped up her bad behaviour towards him whilst pushing us into marriage.  Odd!  After marriage to this person she thought so poorly of, she pushed us into having children,  who she claimed to be sooo devoted to,  but with whom she generally just found fault with.   After all, she didn't like me or my dh, so why would she like our children.

Everyone's situation is different,  and I would not tell someone that NC is the best choice,  but I wish I had read all the signs of her disorder sooner.   It would have saved so many years of pain for all of my FOC.   My h and I have been married for 25 years and are very close to our three grown-up children.   We are all NC with my dysfunctional parents for over five years.   Their choice really,  but best for us as well.

I wish you all the best in handling this situation.   You sound as if you have good perspective on her.

Stay strong.

Libby.

Hi nova.

I'm still fairly new here as well,  but I just wanted to say hello. I think you will find a lot of advice and support here.  I certainly have.

Although the nature of our abuse is different (mine was physical and emotional from a narcissistic mother), I can relate to your situation.   A lifetime of anxiety,  insomnia,  fatigue and pain.  I too suffer from emetophobia, and this has really restricted my life.  I was never diagnosed with endometriosis,  but used to suffer from what felt like period pain for most of the time.  I don't know if there was an actual physical cause or whether my emotional pain expressed itself in this way, along with a lot of other bodily pain.  Have you read "The body keeps the score".?  Very helpful.

I went NC with my foo five years ago, and it was then that I really suffered.  It seems that we reach a real low,  accept it and then start to heal. It sounds like that is where you are now,  maybe. I would never have started to heal if I had stayed in contact with my family.

I am so pleased to hear that you have a good marriage and a supportive wife.  I think having one person on your side makes such a huge difference.

I don't have a lot of advice to offer but just wanted to say welcome. I hope that reading and posting here gives you some support and new insights.   Holding down a job whilst feeling so anxious must be so hard.  Have you tried medication as a short term aid? I think it can help.

All the best to you and I really hope you can get to grips with this awful anxiety.

Libby

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Compared to what others on this site are coping with,  this situation is just a minor problem.   I think I am just obsessing about it, because it is one of the few areas I have any dealings with people,  other than my h and children.

I have thought about situation a lot.  I never wanted or expected my in-laws to replace my dysfunctional family,  but it would have been nice to have been part of a warm family.   I can see now that that was never an option.   They are not warm people. My h has very little connection to them, and they encouraged that.   For them,  once their children were adults,  they were on their own.   Consequently,  my h doesn't feel he owes them a great deal and he says that that is how they see the relationship as well. It's just so opposite to the unhealthy control and enmeshment of my foo that I find it hard to get my head around.   Both sets of parents are so different but the end results are the same.   We, myself,  husband and children aren't important as individuals to either set of them.

My h agrees that my mental state probably means I read more into things than I should.   I am starting to see that he is right, especially with regards to Mil. It is good not to let other peoples' moods and feelings affect you too much.   I know I do this because I was trained by my nm to take on her every thought and feeling.  I think,  however, that Mil is at the other end of the scale.  She never takes on board anything that other people think or feel.   When I apologised years ago for my bad behaviour and tried to explain a bit of my history,  she dismissed me.  I thought initially that it was a sort of forgiveness but actually I see now that it was more that she hadn't really registered it because it didn't bother her. 

Reading your replies,  thinking about things and talking to my h has led me to decide that I will just follow my h's lead.  They are his parents and I have suffered enough from my own.  I will not make the extra effort that I have made in the past.  I shall concentrate my efforts on being a good parent myself. 

It helps so much to write down my thoughts here. 

Thanks for the book recommendation,  Dee.   It sounds just what I need, but very interesting in its own right.

Sanmagic and Three Roses, thank you for pointing out that I don't have to accept poor treatment,  just because I am worried that the problem is me alone.   Sil will be treated politely,  should our paths cross,  but that's it.  Funny though, that Sil is the one person Mil tries to placate whilst being so little bothered by anyone elses feelings.  I need a theory that explains that.

Sorry for such a long,  boring post to anyone who has read this far.   I just want you to know that reading and posting here helps me so much to get my thoughts in order so that I can move on.

Libby

Hi again Suzanne.

Your story is horrific - such violence from your father. No one should ever suffer so much.  I had a lot of physical abuse from nm but not like yours. It was,  I think,  her emotional abuse that did most damage.  I was saying yes, yes as I read of your parents control around food and eating.  And being told what to wear - like you, mostly boys clothes with a short, boyish hair style.   How could we ever fit in.

Your pregnancy experience also rang bells with me.  My second was a difficult twin pregnancy resulting in premature,  low birth weight babies who both had special needs.  My nm behaved terribly throughout all this and piled on extra stress, as yours clearly did.

I feel we have plenty of stories in common.

I had 20+ sessions of CBT a few years ago, before I knew anything of c-ptsd.  It helped a bit but never addressed the underlying trauma, so do push for specialist help, if at all possible.  In my experience that is what you need and deserve.   

Also, the fact that you know you have problems and don't blame your children , means that you are and will be a good parent.  It's the ones who dump their problems onto their children  and who are never accountable,  who damage and ultimately lose their children.   So don't worry and get well.

All the best to you.

Libby

Hi Suzanne.

It sounds as if we have quite a similar background in terms of the physical and emotional abuse from parents,  made worse by constant bullying at school.  It seems so common that children abused in the home are bullied at school.  Most of my abuse was at the hands of my nm and lasted well into adulthood. The anxiety she caused really affected my marriage and my children. 

I know that I have felt depressed for as long as I can remember (about age four I think) .   I was really suffering badly about five years ago and said that I thought my relationship with my mother had played a big part in it and I have received the ST from parents and sister ever since.   I dealt with this but felt something was still badly wrong with me and that led me to the area of c-ptsd, which explained everything I had been experiencing all my life.  It sounds as if you are at this point now.  Have you come across the two books that are most recommended by people here?   The body keeps the score and From striving to thriving.   They really sum everything up. It's such a relief to understand why you feel like you do, including having an explanation for the chronic pain / fybromyalgia that I too have struggled with for years.

For me, I think that I suffered depression for years, went through various stressful situations (clearly the case for you as well),  which were hard to cope with because that basic self-esteem and self-belief had not been established in childhood,  and so the depression tipped over into c-ptsd. Understanding the concept and the role of emotional flashbacks, which I got from reading on this site,  was especially useful.   When you describe the rage, guilt and numbness,  and concerns for your family in these situations,  it sounds as if you could be in an EF.   The sudden rage, out of all proportion to the actual situation was so difficult for me and my family but having a framework to recognise and cope makes things so much better for everyone.

Learning all about c-ptsd from books and this site really had helped me so much and I hope you can start to heal as well.  I see that, like me, you are in the UK.   I have found little understanding or help from the NHS.  I hope you have or will find something better but at least you can come here for support and advice.   I have found more positive things here than I have ever got from any doctor or health professional.

Best wishes to you.

Libby

Hi sunrise.

I am still very new to the idea of c-ptsd and have just finished FSTT for the first time. However,  your post felt very familiar to me.   My nm controlled my every thought and action.  As a child I was forced to go out to play,  attend clubs etc, and to generally go out with the family.  She absolutely loved going out and thought I should to.  I would much rather of stayed at home but that wasn't an option.  I was nagged and blamed and you are so right, I mostly prefer to avoid going out.   I have realised recently that going out does feel threatening, and being compelled to go out really can bring on a severe EF.   

So yes.  It all makes perfect sense to me. Efs feel so awful that you would certainly want to avoid going out.  Does your mother make you feel guilty about your avoidance?   That would seem to add another layer of shame.

I used to suffer awful abdominal pain when made to go out as a child, which from a young age I called my anxiety stomach ache.  I think this was known by mother but no way would she make any allowances for me.

I think you will get a lot of reading the book.

Best wishes.

Libby

Hi there.

I have finally arrived at the realisation that the issue of dealing with other people is one of my biggest problems at the moment.  Not with my husband and children but pretty much everybody else.

I don't work,  have no friends (just superficial chats with a couple of neighbours and fellow dog walkers).  Standing up to my nm over my lifetime of emotional (and childhood physical) abuse led to complete ST from my foo five years ago.  And actually,  I am generally OK with this.

The problem is with my in-laws, who I sort of feel obliged to have some sort of relationship with.   I feel very confused.   I have never felt particularly close to them,  but worry that that is my fault,  because I was so screwed up by my mother. I have apologised to my Mil for being difficult to get along with in the early days. They have done a lot of other things that I have found hurtful.   Fil refused to come to our
marriage ; they were never very interested in our children ; they have only visited a handful of times in  our 25 years of marriage,  and then only Mil.  We drive three hours there and back regularly to visit them.   In fact, none of the extended family ever visit us.  We have always accepted this is how things are.   What hurts me, however,  is that I have never received any emotional support from them.   They have refused to listen to anything about the situation with my parents and when I am depressed and in pain,  they don't want to know.   They just brush everything aside.   When I was struggling with three children under three, my twins both having special needs ( which turned out to be autism and learning and language difficulties and all diagnosed by professionals)  Mil would always completely invalidate me, saying there was nothing wrong with the boys and that she knew other people who had it worse. 

They have treated us quite badly recently and it has triggered me really badly,  especially as the situation involves a sil who I am sure is pd as she is so like my mother.   I just want to  avoid interacting with them but feel guilty. I genuinely worry that it is all my fault that we never developed any bond, because I was such a mess. But then again,  I feel that Mil could have made an effort to understand me and my situation.   

Does anyone have any advice about to navigate relationships which are unsatisfactory and cause anxiety but where there is guilt around what part our c-ptsd symptoms are playing in the relationship. I want to isolate as usual but feel so much guilt.

I hope this makes some degree of sense.   Any thoughts,  however rambling,  would be gratefully received.

Thank you.

Libby

Hello daisyhope.

I understand so well the weariness and hopelessness and helplessness that you are experiencing.  I feel just the same, so tired of the years and years of pain, and the feeling of life being so difficult,  especially when people treat each other so badly. 

I am reading the often recommended book by Pete Walker and it is excellent.  I can relate to it all.  It explains everything you talk about in your post -you may well have read it.  I am at the stage of thinking how do I move from this understanding to actually healing.  It seems almost impossible at the moment but I have made small changes like breathing deeply,  challenging inner and outer critics  and recognising emotional flashbacks.   It is helping.

Like you I have always been a stay at home mum to three children (grown-up now).   

I really hope you find some healing and look forward to hearing from you again.

Best wishes

Libby.