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Kizzie - very true!

Cat - Your post helped me think about this more deeply...yes I think as literary symbol she represents my acceptance of aging and the grief of having been abandoned, then being the "mature" one to re-mother her/me...

Exactly Cat.  I think that's why I was in a way surprised by this pain...i thought the death of my son was supposed to be the "worst"...it wasn't the worst pain for me this has been much harder and more painful...

Thank you Lovelycreature.  It's so amazing to me that there are so many of us out there needing to grieve lost childhood's or mothering and figuring out how to do it for ourselves as adults.  I feel like I've landed on an island I didn't know about with people who've all had to figure out how to survive there and they're welcoming me and supportive, but I need to learn the skills through practice.

Yes, the boat metaphor helps and makes sense.  I've experienced strong grief with the loss of my infant son.  Surprisingly much easier than this grief work....anyway I remember I would just follow my heart when I started to experience a negative/processing type emotion and take action like journal writing, writing poetry, or a web site like this one and when I truly processed the emotion I'd feel better.  So I'm hearing that yes, this is normal.  I am grieving the loss of mothering and fathering, something that I couldn't understand as a child so it was postponed.  And as an adult I was unaware/in denial for another 20+ years.  Now, as a mature adult, it's time to learn to navigate that boat.

My therapist likens it to "emotional potty training" which as an early childhood professional I completely understand.  I also almost "feel" like I can feel the missing pathways of nurturing & protection when I kick in to anxiety or anger.  Like I'll tell myself this is a familiar neural pathway (the anxiety or anger), but a lot of people have another, healthier option and I can help myself develop that one right now by processing.  Then I think about why I feel that way, how it relates to my earlier story, what would have been a healthier "mothering."  I kind of re-parent that experience and then approach the here and now with compassion and more skill.

Thank you Bluevermonter!  Yes, she's found her home and made my house feel even more like a home

After reviewing the threads I was debating between "progress" thread and journal thread.  I read the description that Kizzie wrote, thank you!, and that fits so here goes...

1/19/15 Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday

So I've moved back into my home after vacating it in February of 2012.  It had been our family home, full of 12+ years of my children's childhood, hosting many faith-based, family and friend gatherings.  I moved out when my anxiety was so bad I couldn't function or view my marriage as an independent person.  The house (a duplex) was also potentially in foreclosure, and my husband of 20 years who'd daily said that he loved me, had stopped. Instead, he said that he was going to move out to a studio apartment in the woods to "find himself," and where his mistress who'd I'd just learned about, could visit.  That way he could "visit" me and his son on his way to work while he was "deciding" what to do.  So I left.  He eventually moved her in.  And I felt triggered anywhere near the space.  Then they moved out.

I visited the space after 2 yrs of healing last spring and it felt like "home" again.  I wanted to return as the "new" me and make it "my" space.  I've been here for 6+ months and it has been healing.

The tragic part was our cat.  My ex didn't take her with him and so she lived outside in the carport through a year's worth of tenants.  She'd had 14 years of attentive care, always fed, able to sleep and spend time inside and outside.  Now she was 15+ years old, scraggly and pathetic looking.  Fortunately, the neighbor took to feeding her (my home is a duplex). Unfortunately, she'd taken to "not" using the kitty litter box, so I didn't want to bring her inside b/c of the potential mess.  Plus my bf at the time didn't care for having animals inside the house.  And I was afraid that if I brought her inside, she couldn't handle the cold outside.  And I think that with my CPTSD it was just too painful to attend to her.  I hoped to one day soon bring her inside again, but I wasn't sure when.  So, whenever I came home she'd meow pathetically and she eventually gave up.

Well, today I brought her inside.  She tentatively looked at me, and then, decidedly walked over the threshold into her home.   I cried for her suffering that was brought on by the divorce, by me, by circumstances that she couldn't control.  She simply contentedly curled up on the couch and turned over for me to rub her belly (we'd jokingly call her our "dog-cat") and groom her. 

Next, I felt that relief, that serenity that comes from taking a step forward in the healing process.  And I look forward to taking care of her again in the final years of her kitty life, snuggling on the couch together and feeding her and just being around my daughter's kitty again.

I love the way my cat communicates!   She went to the laundry room and meowed LOUDLY.   It's been about 3 years, but that was where she was always fed in the past.  I shed a few more tears, took her outside to the neighbor's food bowl and am on my way to the store to buy some cat food!

My gut response is that you definitely need to blow at least some of those photos up!  We "blew up" a gingerbread house with firecrackers one year and someone else I know "blows up" his christmas tree every new year's day (basically with fire works and a little fire and a LOT of water close by just in case).  I've done things like that as a way to create a healthy, empowering memory. 

Like carrying 40 lbs. of sand down a very steep stairway and to the beach where I dumped it in to the ocean when I lost 40 pounds.

Or destroying the painful pages of my "divorce" journal by crumpling each page, tossing it in to the garbage, and crushing it in the dumpster.

Another part of me says don't destroy those pictures of the sad or unhappy you b/c (because) part of the journey is developing compassion for that you.  And I hope that you're loved ones look at those photos with compassion.

As for photos I have the same dilemna, but mine most painful photos are the 22 years of my married/family life that include my own children, so I'm having to keep the photos for them.  Like you, I had the pics in my living space in the hopes of organizing them.  When I moved I put them all in boxes and shut them away for now and that lifted a weight off of my shoulders.  Simply having the photos in my personal space was creating a negative environment for me.  I also used my smart phone to take photos of some of the photos and stored that as my temporary "album."  My daughter agreed that she'd like to help with the photos one day. I know that I don't want to go through them alone.  So that's what's worked for me for the moment...Your photo project sounds like one that needs a supportive loved one.  Often another person without the history can take sincere pleasure in looking at photos which can in turn help us enjoy or develop compassion around our past.

Also from my perspective, there is nothing that says you need to decide what to do with those photos "now." 

So, maybe do what works for you now...blow up a few you really dislike  and grab a couple from the top for an album...then put the rest away or blow them up.  And you can tell people that your childhood was too unpleasant for you to share photos with them if you want no matter what you decide   Whatever you decide to do this sounds like an opportunity for some steps towards growth.  And no need to try to jump a tall hurdle before you're ready...life gives plenty of other opportunities for practice...

Also your post is a reminder that I can be creative in how I approach my photos as well!

Thanks for the reciprocity

Childhood:  Intellectually I've known for a long time that my parents didn't provide me with what I needed as a child, but it's like I'd turned off that "need" for so long (since infancy we think) that it's been hard for me to understand and/or experience emotions in smaller doses rather than the extremes that come with CPTSD and emotional irregulation.  Since reading Walker's book I've come to understand on a deeper level that I did not receive "good enough" parenting for me to develop a healthy sense of self, emotional regulation, or healthy ways of relating to others.  Classic situation of ongoing emotional neglect and intermittent emotional abuse.  The pieces of my childhood that I've put together by stories from my always smiling "happy" (fake happy, like a clown it seems to me now) mom, include that the only way I'd sleep as a newborn/young infant was to "cry myself to sleep", then as a 1 year-old when I "tantrumed" she would put me in my crib alone until I was done with that unpleasant behavior, the sewing project she was working on when I was a 1 year-old so that I'd learn to "wait" for her when I needed something, then the near daily verbal abuse of my father towards my mother, and my mom turning to her 10 year-old daughter for emotional support.  Throughout my life I've been told that I was a shy and fearful pre-school child, like it was something in my biology.

Awareness & sadness:  I now see these stories for what they were, emotional neglect and my anxious response.  I've known this intellectually for a few months (I was in denial for 45+ years), but I just couldn't seem to feel anything about it.  Then, about a month ago, I was thinking and trying to "feel" when the tears came and I sobbed for that helpless baby that felt sad, lonely, afraid or tired and just needed to be held and hugged.  Now, often when I'm reading through threads on this web site, when I read Walker's book, or watch House M.D., I find myself crying for short periods of time followed by feeling relief and serenity.  Simply writing this post has brought on tears now and again along with a lump in my throat, maybe (because) b/c I need to allow myself to cry harder? 

Anger:  Pete Walker talks about some of the other emotions of grief for a childhood lost, and although I almost tapped in to anger, the moment passed and now it just seems so hopeless and long ago that anger feels pointless.  But, maybe that's my inner child at work who learned that anger got me nothing.  In fact, I seldom feel anger now, although during the last 10 years of my marriage irritation became a frequent emotion.  The only time I feel anger now is with behaviors of my teen-age son-negative behaviors that I fear his father or I have unconsciously "taught" him.  And I probably should feel angry with someone at work, but I tend to "freeze," afraid that I might "get in trouble"(a.k.a. fired) and so I end up just concentrating on doing my job instead.  I think that once my "training" with this person ends (she is not a supervisor and the supervisor seems kind/appropriate), I'll be able to be more appropriately assertive and strike that balance of human interaction that Walker describes.  This co-worker/trainer is undoubtedly not very healthy herself, so right now I need to concentrate on staying "safe" around her and normal assertiveness might be seen as defiance or a threat.  Fortunately, I will not be around her as much in the very near future since my "training" is coming to an end.

Questions:  Are the tears that I describe "grief work" that I'm experiencing?  Is the anger/irritation rising up from my childhood?  What next?  How do I know that I'm not simply re-traumatizing myself, especially with this web site?  When, if ever, will the tears start to subside?  How long is it healthy to focus on the sadness before I need to move on to anger and "angering" as another step in the grief work of a childhood lost?  Am I simply learning to experience sadness in a healthier way?

I have a therapist who I work with, but he's out of town for two weeks right now, plus that's an hour per week and I have other times when I can process this pain in healthier ways.  My therapist has told me that experiencing triggers and processing them is a major way to do the grief work.  At the moment this forum, therapy, and writing are my healthy options for processing.  I don't have any healthy friendships at the moment with whom I can do this work (recently noticed I'd been "fawning" or accepting emotional abuse/neglect in my "friendships").

Question: Does what I'm describing sound like grief work?

Thank you in advance for any thoughts or ideas you'd like to share with me on this thread

Thank you nonanee.  I think it's in part because I simply didn't experience the abuse/neglect in the Spanish language so I have a lot fewer triggers in environments in that language.  And true, fluency helps!  Thanks for you post

Hi Shadow, Sasha and Rain.  I am going to explore EMDR.  And Shadow I hear where you're coming from with your doctor.  I think that sometimes doctors want very much to help, but their only tool is medication.  I found a doctor who's willing to prescribe a cocktail of meds that work well for me in ways that they aren't typically used...but it works for me.  Personally I used to be quite opposed to meds but I've come to decide that needing them in order to work to provide for myself and in order to parent is ok.  I hope that I can eventually wean off of them, but if not I'm ok with that too.  I guess for me it's whether the positive affect of the medication is more than the side effects that I experience.  My emotions can spiral so quickly and be so exhausting and/or potentially destructive (dangerous depression) that I am not going to try to stop using them again for a while.  I am, however, accessing therapy and this web site and books.  I wonder if anyone here has tried Reiki healing?  My healer was good at tapping in to my emotional energy, discovering the origin and helpful inner child type work that would help me heal between sessions.

Thank you for helping point me in the direction of another step.  With a specific place on OOTF I think I'll doing some more reading.  And for the validation...I still am having a hard time letting go of the superwoman me who did too much...but all of this takes time.

I am new to this forum and reading through old threads and posts.  Your post here hit a chord for me because it sounds a lot like the inappropriate behavior of my ex-husband with our daughter.  I actually made the decision to divorce him final when I read about Emotional Incest and saw how exactly it paralleled his interactions with our adult daughter.  On one hand I think that we are all quite fortunate that it didn't lead to sex abuse with her.  On the other hand, as we know with CPTSD, the emotional abuse/neglect is harder to accept, easier to deny, and requires great effort for healing.  What you describe sounds like emotionally incestuous actions and words by your father.  There are a number of books out with Emotional Incest in the title if you haven't already found them.

I'm not sure what the outcome after the holidays was for you, but I hope for the best for you.

Hi Marycontrary,

Thanks for your response.

This thread has really helped me to understand the need to know our stresses and how to limit them.  I think I understood this on a nonverbal level but everyone here has validated and put together pieces of the puzzle of truth.  I remember my two friends who deal with psychosis specifically stating this to me.  One noticed that as long as she works part-time and is in a healthy environment she does better.  I think her ex is such a stressor that it made it nearly impossible for her to be around her children, beginning from when they were abou 4-5 years old.  My friends have told me this in so many words, but now I understand a little better.  True for me as well, but I'm at an earlier stage figuring out my stressors.

I used to be able to cope with a mediocre marriage, parenting, an acting out teen, a job with very high levels of responsibility & emotional stress, and take Master's level classes.  I did all of these at the same time, but since the end of my marriage I've barely been able to work.  I have been able to parent reasonably well.  But self care, parenting and a low stress job is all that I can handle right now, and I guess I still feel a bit of shame and guilt about that...I long for the me that didn't have emotional breaks and could handle more.  Now I can feel the anxiety start to make my arms tremble, hold back tears and my thoughts just start to shut down in the same situations of work that I could handle in the past.

I'm at a point in my life where I simply cut out most of the people (outside of my current work) because I couldn't yet tell who had a positive influence and who did not.  Now I'm gradually adding people back in and paying close attention to my response.

I'm curious Marycontrary, on your list of qualities of people with whom you no longer associate, were you referring to in general, or in interactions with you?  And do you think someone can be different in different situations?  For example, not empathetic with co-workers but empathetic with their kids or to not lie to some people and does lie to others.  Do you think that these negative behaviors sooner or later show up everywhere?  How do you assess others for addiction, especially to food? 

Thanks again everyone for this discussion.

I have a friend who had her first psychosis that I knew about several years ago.  It was painful for both of us, and I know that I didn't handle it well at one point.  I was just in too much pain myself and protection of my kids.  However, several months later I realized my mistake, apologized and have had some contact since that time.  I know that she was originally diagnosed with schizophrenia but we later all noticed that did not describe her long-term reality.  No that I've educated myself and knowing her reality I'm pretty sure that CPTSD and psychosis "nos" describes her experience.

I have another friend from my faith community who talks openly about her psychosis with me, describing the challenge of the voices she hears.  I just listen and validate.  I figure we all have something to work through to process and for some people, this is theirs.

I watched someone in a hospital setting have a nurse very compassionately talk her through an experience reminding her that the voices were being created by her mind and that they were "tricking" her...that she was safe and ok...in that situation this helped a lot.

I don't know what words would help here...do you like to speak and hear Spanish?  I know from another post that you are bilingual...given my experiences my compassionate side seems more easily experienced there...solo q eres una persona noble y tus experiencias, tu compasion y deseo para sanar siguen ayudando a ti mismo y las personas a tus redadores...

I guess just that I understand some and am open to learning more about how to support anyone dealing with psychosis.

And I see from your posts that you have put in place many processes to get and stay healthy.

Thank you for bringing up this topic and hopefully we can all help to learn and support this recovery as well.

And good luck on your resource search.  If you'd like, let me know what you find out 

A little more behind my question and response to wingnut on another thread about group process: 

I've attended groups of various types (mostly life skills, developing spiritual qualities and academic) as a participant, co-facilitato and facilitator.  I went to an ARMS group which is more on this topic (I wrote more about the content below).  I have liked listening to others ideas in a group setting.  I have found it useful.  It's a different type of support.  More in-person validation, a hug.  I am more cautious about what to share in such groups. It's an opportunity to practice social support.  We can share, listen and work through EFB in a safe setting with others who understand.  There is a dialog of ideas.  I believe that discussing in group can bring us closer to truth since no single individual could possibly hold all of the answers.  It also can help us develop realtional attachments and bonds with other people.  Sometimes there is a person(s) in the group to form a friendship outside of the group time.    Walker's book on CPTSD mentions that some of his current close friends were in a recovery group with him.

Online isn't physically social.  We are all of us alone in another location, often alone.  Our thoughts and ideas support one another.  But, it's not the same.  I feel like online is between alone and social.  I understand that online might be as much as some people choose to utilize for "committee" work.

Personally I do not have a single friend or family member at the moment with whom I can process these concepts.  I've attempted a little and been shut down.  I know that I started the friendships with my current circle of people in an unhealthy way.  I met them before I understood so I mostly "fawn" or have been verbally/emotionally abused or neglected by these people through them judging or being critical of me in order to "help," wanting me to get along with my FOO since my parents are so "nice," or I give, give, give my time, listening, transporting, etc...not reciprocal.

The  group that I know about in my area and mentioned above is curriculum based and called ARMS "Abuse Recovery Ministry & Services."  .  It is a Nationwide curriculum used in both English and Spanish.  I am not Christian and am very secure/content with my Faith, but I believe in a higher power and like things that have a spiritual foundation.  It's ok with me that they use biblical quotes, stories and principles in moderation.  I understand that's me.  It may or may not work for others.  It's free, they don't proselytize and respect that people attend from different Faiths.

Your question encouraged me to get out my folder from the group and, although there is a lot about domestic abuse, I noticed that it really does touch on the FOO topic.  Perhaps I wasn't ready when I first attended.  I really like the healing principles that they describe.  I re-read some of the handouts and they are very empowering.  They never let the "perpetrator" off the hook while at the same time empowering the participants to move forward.  They address spirtual abuse and how people use church, religion, and the bible to abuse or control and that this is not ok.  Perhaps I will try again now and let folks know how it goes.

I know what you mean about therapist lead groups.  I haven't liked those so much.  It would need to be a very skilled facilitator and often it feels to me like the therapist doesn't have the personal compassion or tries to hard to control the group.  On top of that they want me to pay them, ugh!

I think I've just always viewed groups as one of the helpful tools for healing, potentially part of our "committee."  And I know that I have a tendency to enjoy being social and around other people.  I think this tendency was damaged and temporarily destroyed early on by unhealthy relating and attachments with FOO