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Tomorrow I'm going to meet a new therapist who was recommended to me by my current therapist, as someone who can do VERY intense IFS work. She has studied with Robert Falconer, who wrote The Others Within Us and she told me on the phone that our first session(s) will be to work with the part in me who is, what I call, my inner bouncer. I have an inner bouncer who, for my entire life, has tried to keep other people out of my head. Anytime I've ever tried to meditate or be hypnotized, this part pops up and distracts me. He sends me messages like, "This is stupid. Don't fall for it."  Meanwhile, I PAID a hypnotherapist to help me quit smoking or quit eating too much or to help me find my inner peace, and this bouncer keeps throwing them out of my head. I'm intrigued. I'm so glad she said that was where we'll start, so that as we work in later sessions to find more parts, he won't throw her out of my head.

Hi PC,

I'm glad you've found some energy and happiness. The time with your family sounds wonderful. As others have mentioned, having a family like that is a testament to what a great job you did.

FWIW I think energy work has a place and has helped me in the past. It didn't solve all my problems, but probably helped me along my way to doing those things. FWIW too, I'm interested to hear about your inner bouncer. I do believe in perpetrator introjects (energetically and psychologically). I'm also beginning to understand how important it is for a part of me to protect my inner world, and how connection can throw that in disarray. Probably because I had to start learning how to do it at such a young age where any and everything is big, overpowering and doesn't make sense. So, no matter how well meaning someone can be, I think they might want to "throw them out" as well because it's hard to understand that I don't have to protect myself in that way all the time etc.

Sending you support,
dolly

dollyvee - I would normally agree with you. The signs of infection were showing before starting the drugs, though. And I have combed the internet for side effects of these drugs. Fever, coughing and racing heart simply do not feature anywhere. Anyway, whatever happens I keep taking the Hep C drugs. I absolutely refuse to end up with drug-resistant hepatitis at the end of it.

HI NK,

I'm sorry too that you might not go on your cruise and get to do something you were looking forward to.

With the HCV stuff, my initial thought was that the drugs were bringing up something maybe previously undetected in the body, and not a specific reaction to the medication. Sometimes there's a herx reaction where things get worse before they get better etc, but also that maybe the HCV is affecting more than just the liver, which perhaps the doctors might have missed. Viruses are funny things. I feel like I'm overstepping here, but I did a quick search and there are pulmonary reactions to HCV. Years of growing up with people that were ill around you and trying to solve their problems is a hard thing to shake. As well as being overlooked by doctors for my own health problems. I do hope you start to feel better though and find some space for rest.

"Chronic HCV infection is, however, associated with multiple extrahepatic manifestations as well, including recently recognized effects on the lung. These include primary effects on lung function, as well as secondary effects in the settings of progressive liver disease and drug treatment for HCV."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012369215527141

This is an old study and perhaps things might have changed, but might be worth looking into a bit more.

Sending you support,
dolly

Thank you Hope - I think it's somethingI do to try suppress what's happened really. I guess that's how I dealt with it because I didn't have anything else. Boundaries? Not allowed. Standing up for myself? Punished and gaslit into thinking it was me. So, the only thing that worked/was allowed was to block it out, or it just doesn't exist.

I think there's a lot of stuff coming up now and this morning I could write about a few different things, but not really sure about the direction. I think that's also familiar. I guess it's just emotion? Though don;t think I could nail down a specific one. Impending Doom brought to the surface? Perhaps as I've been feeling like I've spent a lot of the past week very hypervigilant around people, but also with a sort of clarity?

I spoke with t about feeling defensive about my inner world and I was much more emotional talking about that than I expected to be. I feel/ suspect this is at the heart of a lot of things/connection stuff. The conflict between needing to protect/keep my own inner world safe vs engaging and taking what others say on board. I think it's just the immediate feeling or readiness to take on something if there is an issue, and then, I am "bad." It's such an automatic process.

I watched Heidi Priebe's video on needs and relationships, which was pretty eye opening. I've often felt like I wasn't allowed to have needs, or that in a relationship, my needs are somehow disassociated from me. I very much identified with feeling like yoou have to meet all your needs in a relationship. It feels so foreign that someone else would meet my needs, or some of them, and not expect something from me. (I checked out for a bit after I wrote that last bit, so I guess there's something in there). This is also not "special," or only for certain (ie good) people, but is how relationships work for most people (apparently?). I guess it just feels safer for me to do things myself.

I'm also revisiting an experience with my gym friend where I was joking about doing an exercise badly because I was tired from working so much the past bit. She said, but why not do them this way - which was sort of it's fine what you're doing.  Of course me being me, I want to challenge and push myself. I sort of deflected and made it into a joke about already having a therapist (which sounds pretty harsh when I write it out here, but don't think it came across like that). So, we sort of talked (trauma bonded?) and turns out that she also has a similar family of the why didn't you get all A's variety, and she was speaking I guess as someone who she would have spoken to her like that. I didn't really take on board though what she was saying until later, or have it fully sink in. I didn't push myself to maximum, but backed off. However, that feeling of I should have done better was still there. Or maybe not should have done better, but disappointment in not doing so on some level.

I'm also pretty sure I saw a paedophile in the the grocery store yesterday, watching this mother and child probably pretty innocuously to everyone else, but I did not like the feeling. I don't know how to describe it, the mom was loving but busy and stressed, only half paying attention to the little girl, and it felt like he was taking all of this in and looking at the girl. I stared at him and he didn't care. The feeling was so odd. It was like he knew he wasn't going to get caught. And I felt like there is nothing really that I can do, but stare at him and show him I know what you are. This is the first time I've understood the term predator. That's exactly the feeling I got. I thought about going to the police, but what  can I say? I don't think this man should be around children. Or telling the mom to watch her child more closely? I wish I would have went after the mom, but I didn't want to cause her alarm? I guess it's bringing up some of my own feelings around powerlessness.

Hi Woodsgnome,

I'm sorry that things are so challenging right now for you. I read what you wrote recently in the infancy and trauma thread a while ago and I'm sorry too about some of your experiences. I can't imagine how difficult it is for you at times. I also want to say that I had an energy healing experience a soul retrieval though, and while I am skeptical, I also believe like you say in a person's ability to do those things and bring back the details you mentioned.

I tend to isolate myself and think that it is very much a trauma reaction to help us keep reliving that sense of impending doom, so that we feel like we can protect ourselves from something we once couldn't. I'm coming to grips with states of connection and disconnection and the parts that don't feel connection is safe. I feel like I've seen a lot in people that confirms my thinking that it's not safe. I'm also open to the idea that perhaps I've been closed to the people who are "safe" because I feel like I need to protect myself from the "impending doom." I hope you're able to have some space from states of disconnection and connection in a way that feels safe for you.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi NK,

I find people like that very stressful, who try to blag their way through things and people who want to throw me a bunch of bs are triggering I would say. As an adult though, you've done a great job of getting second opinions and being able to deal with the problem when you're feeling down. I don't think you're feeling sorry for yourself. It sounds like a lot going on.

Not a doctor here, but it seems too coincidental that you've now developed a chest infection once the medication has been started. Perhaps the two are related, and apologies if you've already looked into this with your doctor. Probablyy just my own medical issues and oversights by doctors coming into play.

I do hope your cruise goes well though. I'm sure you'll have a great time, and whatever you didn't pack you might be able to buy along the way.

dolly 

Truth is, my 'caring, nurturing' tendencies come from a dark place. It's not just that I wanted others to do better. Nothing that neat or altruistic. 
 
Finally, my tendency to be nice (and avoidance of those who are not) is borne out of a subconscious need to avoid or defuse conflict.

 I suspect these darker motives are what drive most of us to become this way.
 

Hi Slashy,

Hmm I'm not so sure about the "darker" aspects of where these things come from. It's hard to blame a child who learned how to do these things to survive an unsafe environment as dark, and intentionally doing coming from a "selfish" place, but I do see where you're coming from. Perhaps it's our shadow selves that we don't want to look at. Or rather, are so contained in shame, so we don't look at them.

About 8 (?) years ago, I slowly started to realize that I was having "reactions" when I would do something for someone and it wouldn't be reciprocated, or I felt kind of taken advantage of (because something wasn't reciproacated etc etc). This is around the time that I started therapy again. I realized that the person I thought I was -giving, loving, whatever - might not be all of those things the way I imagined it in my mind (and this is the important part), and I guess have a "darker" side. I think it's important because as a child we have this idea of who we have to be in order to survive, and when we step outside that, we see ourselves as bad. I think I would file it under child consciousness as Heller descibes it. It doesn't make you a bad person to not be those things all the time, that's just what you had to do to survive. I would guess that shame construes those things in our mind as bad because I believe that I do want good things for people, and to help make their lives easier etc. I guess I am now learning that I don't want to do it at the expense of myself any more, which makes me feel "selfish" at times.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi Hope,

Moths are interesting to me. I remember reading about them years ago in the book that's mentioned here in this link. You can take it with a grain of salt, but I do believe this man had an experience that was quite like any other and made a website to find other people because it was so outside of his experience. Maybe it's another aspect (spiritual) to your night terrors, which to me, can also be quite scary in itself to consider these things.

https://cosmicmoth.com/

After my dad died, I would frequently go back to our house in dreams. However, over the years the house would change and eventually, I stopped going. I do think we try to make sense of things, all that subconscious stuff, in our dreams, and once we "get it," we move on or it changes.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi Chart,

I've come to understand a bit more how this stuff shows up in me a bit more over the past few years. A recent revelation has been Healing From Developmental Trauma both the first book and the Practical guide. It deals with the connection survival type which very much relates to infancy trauma. Perhaps it might help in understanding the foundations of what you're experiencing a bit more. He has a very good explanation of "impending doom" and where that comes from when you tried to resolve things as an infant with no resources.

I've also recently started seeing a NARM therapist, which sort of hits straight to the core of issues, but can also just leave one feeling a bit sark and heavy. It's only been a month, so waiting to see how it goes.Most of the infancy stuff is also preverbal, so emotions etc coming up for me often don't have a logical/thinking component which I rely on, so I think I sort of spin out with stuff like that.

I'm sorry you're going through so much at the moment and hope you can find some space with that.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi Jim,

I'm glad you were able to talk things out a bit and feel better about the situation. I'm glad you've found a sense of direction.

Thank you for your kindness and sending some back,
dolly

Reflecting on my session with t and I think I see some dynamics happening, which have come up before, but didn't realize/understand how important, or rooted (if that's the right word) they are?

T was explaining where she thought my issues with relationships stem, or why maybe I keep choosing a certain type of person (her words). She's used a traffic light analogy to explain interpreting someone's actions before because I think I can "see what I want to see" at times. (I think this is not understanding what's going on internally perhaps, and wanting to connect in a way that I didn't have growing up, which I guess is me at times, thinking I'm broken). I've sort of come to realize in my last interaction with someone, is that the traffic light is way too far down the process, and it's my interpretation of things before it even gets to that point where I feel like things take a detour (keeping with the traffic metaphor). I've realized that the "chase," or even that initial moment of spark, connection, and potentiality make me shut down, and is where I start interpreting things as dangerous, or trying to read into someone's actions. So, it all progresses into this "game" of are they going to be this person (hurtful etc), and me trying to find evidence of that. Not particularly healthy and not really something I want to do.

But what I noticed in discussing this with t, and what I said to her, was that I don't feel like there's a lot of agency in these "interpretations," and I think it makes me very defensive. What I noticed this morning is that I think it's a familiar pattern of maybe disconnection? I didn't have/wasn't allowed to have an internal world I think growing up, and I'm very protective of mine now, and feel like on some level I will choose that over connection because it's survival. Not listening was said a lot to me growing up, and now, I think it's probably similar at times. If I don't feel like my internal world is respected (thoughts/contributions etc), I think I just tune out. I think this is also probably true for relationships, that I would rather protect my inner world (and freedom) than connect. I find people want to tell me a lot about the things I'm doing in my life and how they're wrong (sounds like my gf), or maybe this is what I stick on, and not the people who don't because then it brings up the feelings around connection?

I will bring this up with t and see what happens. I know in the past I've said that the dynaminc feels like my gm at times where I'd say something and I get defensive because I don't feel like it's heard.
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I also watched Baby Reindeer and wow did that stick with my. I think it shows the process of self-hatred that so many people go through, and maybe how and why we do get stuck in these patterns. 

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It's also interesting some of the things that have been coming up, and the feelings around relationships which are thinking about all the times I've been treated badly, and how I think I want to suppress that, or maybe how I don't actually feel and recognize that as something that happened growing up. The other was that I feel like I'm just trying to be a nice person and it's never recognized, or what people want. GoSlash's comment was interesting that we try to be the things we didn't have growing up. So, maybe I'm trying to be nice because that's what I didn't have, wanting someone to recognize that, but it's just my own unhealed stuff and not an authentic connection? Or I keep thinking that I'm not a nice person because I'm taking on my family's stuff, or that if I don't try and  save everyone, I'm not nice?

Hi Slash,

I'm glad you found the toy from your time with your foster family and it's helped you connect to a part of you. It sounds like there was probably a lot of difficult things for a three year old to process at the time and it's good to have something calming.

Thank you for what you wrote about becoming the person as an adult you wish you had around as a child. It's given me some food for thought and perhaps an insight as to why/where some of my rigidity about being "nice" comes from.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi Slashy,

I feel you. I think it's perhaps both a feature and a bug for me, and have been exploring connection with a NARM therapist.

I think the bug part for me is when my old beliefs that kept me safe (ie being mistrustful, closed etc) actually pop up unknown and sabtotage relationships and connection. I guess it becomes a matter of perspective. We can feel very happy in our isolated worlds, but maybe there's also the inkling that something else is out there. For me, it pops up when I'm trying to make new friends. I rarely approach people (though that's not true as I'm pretty "chatty"), but I guess when I want to trust someone as a friend, and feel like maybe they'll be there for me, this stuff comes up. Superficial relationships where you want to feel like you don't require anything from anyone, only go so far. Or so I'm told. I have a difficult time believing that people don't want something from me on some level, and to me, that feels like betrayal (?) though I don't know the right word for it. However, it's very good at keeping all the feelings I want to keep hidden, hidden. I guess it just feels "safer" to do things like that, and it's whether or not that "safety" is actually warrented or not as an adult. Perhaps it's just learning to trust myself in the instances where it is warranted and where it isn't.

Sending you support,
dolly

So, NARM session this week was...interesting. It always feels like let's dig to the core of the issue and show you your two sides if you can understand and integrate them?

Wee talked about connection and how the feeling of stepping back and not doing so much allowed me a little space. When I try to feel into that space, or think about connecting, I saw a very protective, kind part, that I guess I trust. Like they are doing the best for me. When I try to get that part to step back a bit to allow me to feel the connection, I got something very familiar, kind of a smirk that was like, "you don't know how the world works," which is something I heard a lot growing up. I'm sort of struck now how much it reminds me of the connection with my gm. Something that seems very soft and loving, but if you try to step back from that, and have some independence, you are losing protection and there is danger. At the end of the session, it made me feel very guarded, like oh let's connect and it will be a big kumbaya. I guess growing up I learned that people connect with you because they want something from you, not because of you, and that's a difficult place to be in.

I also felt a lot of emotion around how difficult it was to love my m and gm so much, and watch them destroy themselves, and feel like there was nothing you could do to help them. I don't know if this was helping them so they could finally love me back and I could be seen because otherwise I guess there's a lot of grief and sadness there that's difficult to bear as well.

I also don't really feel like it's the connection that's the problem, or wanting to connect, but perhaps the age of the part that's wanting those things, and if perhaps, they are in "adult consciousness." I also guess that there's a part that doesn't want adult consciousness because it means letting these things go, or what that young part wants/hopes for. Also difficult that I guess those things are never going to be in the world - that love and acceptance? I don't know  what /whyy exactly?

Hi Jim,

Oh boy, can I relate and I'm sorry you're going through that right now. Break ups are awful.

I was reading on another forum about dating and someone was trying to discern if they were interested because they had a good chat, but then they seemed to be avoiding eye contact. All the commentators said, move on, she's not interested. I thought, as a fearful avoidant, I recognize how difficult it is to be "pursued," and how, even if I like that person, I would probably have difficulty showing it. It just struck me how different my perspective was from everyone else's, and how lonely I guess it is to be misunderstood like that, or feel that someone isn't on your "side."

I guess a recent "victory" for me is seeing how much of what I view of someone is/was my own projection. I met someone about a year ago and came to the conclusion that this was not a "relationship guy," and I'm pretty sure (was pretty sure) he fancied a lot of young, attractive women at the gym, which of course, is not how I see myself. So, I distanced myself and then a few months ago, it seemed like he was interested, but I was battling all these projections in my mind. A big one was, I think he's attractive and great, why would a guy like that want me? Something must be off. I was really trying to work out if these things were "true" or not. It's sad because it took me a long time to work out that this is my stuff (where and why I learned it and why I'm holding onto it is another matter), but I can see that it's mine and not the "truth," or the truth where I can't trust this person because of it. Is it difficult for someone to deal with this? Probably. Did I screw it up? Also probably, but it feels different this time like I can step back and really take responsibility (?) for it without feeling the shame and self attack so much. Don't get me wrong, it really sucks, but I also don't feel I did anything "wrong" in the way my child mind is imagining. I'm an adult, I can deal with it. I'm not the dependent child that had to worry about the rejection of a caregiver for survival.

I've been reading a book called the Practical Guide to Healing Developmental Trauma and he talks about hope.

"Splitting and identifying with the "bad self" provides hope. If they can get rid of the parts that are seemingly not liked by the caregivers, then they imagine they will be loved. Or if they work really hard to be what their caregivers expect of them, then they will be loved. Internalizing the environmental failure as their failure leads to shame-based identifications that feel protective and maintain hope. It protects the attachment relationship. It preserves the possibility that there is still love in the universe. As painful as it is to feel defective, faulty, and unlovable, it gives a child hope that they maybe can fix themself, and that maybe then they will be loved."

For me, when a relationships doesn't go anywhere, or that "hope" is gone, I'm usually left with the feeling that I'm defective, or there isn't any love in the universe and that's a hard place to be in. I think I've slowly been trying to take things at my own speed, and not trying to "be" the person I feel like I have to be in order to be loved, or what I learned growing up. Did things not work out between me and him? Probably, but I feel a little bit more space for me now. I'm not out of the woods emotionally, and can see myself reacting (probably protest reactions like in the book, or shame attacks to a degree), but I'm hoping that I can recognize them for what they are and try to act accordingly. I also feel like even if I reacted and took the projection to be true, I was able to step back, recognize what I did, apologize, and not stay in a place of blame or anger. Even at myself if I might have screwed it up.

This is long and I think I'm using it to work out some of things I've been going through recently, so please take what you need, if anything, and leave the rest.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi ScapeGoat69,

I was also a scape goat in my family and have the feeling (belief) that I will be punished for standing up for myself that I carry around my life. I hope you're able to find what you need on the forum 

dolly