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I actually don't go to doctors, except for my kids. I don't like to recognize that I am weak or broken or need anything.

I've come across it before in reading, and again recently in some Jay Reid videos, that trauma survivors are so used to things being difficult that that's what's expected. Actually, I think it was probably my EMDR t or my second t who also said, life is already so difficult, why make it harder? Again, I guess it crops up in prediction error ie we think we're going to be living in the same stressful environment over and over, so we have to be primed and "ready," but why not take the easy road? Why not try and get surgery for the hernia, or the shoulder? I think that I felt like this for a long time, and definitely still do subconsciously with some things, and that if I didn't have the fight, or the struggle then what did I have? It was always the struggle (or fear because I never know what is coming) that was familiar and without it, who would I be?

I hope all the best for your outer and inner family in 2026   

Yes, the one I have been using most is in the member's section. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, just some things that I have been found to be true for me. I always found myself constantly going to someone else about someone's behaviour to see if there was validation in it, or I was "crazy" for thinking that, but the whole process was dependent on "other," and had nothing to do with my own internal compass. This is what I had known growing up -- that my reality wasn't real, and I had to accept the reality of my unNPD mother, grandmother, and step grandfather as real, which required constant validation so it was "safe" to exist. My experience of that "emptiness" was both one fraught with fear because without a connection to those people, there was annihilation (explained well in Jay Reid videos this removal of the seat of Self that happens in scapegoating families), and my experience of emptiness/Great Mother (also, funnily enough, the spider woman in some cultures is the grandmother and weaver of reality/creator of all things) was through my gm in a way who told me she was my protector, as well as "all knowing" (more in my journal about this), which affects (and affected) my Self at a very primordial (?)/deep level. So, it was almost as if the connection to that Great Mother where I should feel whole is/was also filtered at some level through my gm (almost as a limitation to my personal power as well), and giving up that connection means giving up protection (but really just the idea or illusion of what I thought protection was), but I'm working this out. 

  Good luck with your new group SO.

Also, just to clarify the double posting from me -- one was supposed to be from the night before, but don't think it actually posted.

I think here's the part where it finally starts to make sense that the person I had to become to survive is not the one that can take me further and I have to grieve her too.

Yes, this is a great insight too. Wishing you all the light for the holidays and sending a hug of support if that's ok too 

These people remind me of something I haven't processed, apart from triggering deeply ingrained patterns. My contraction around this keeps happening because I haven't integrated enough of it. I'm not reacting to these people. I'm reacting to what's already within

What's interesting about this to me is that it doesn't seem like you allow yourself any validity to the fact that there might be some truth in what you were experiencing in the present moment for it to trigger the past stuff/reactions. That's not to say it's a complete overlay, but perhaps there were elements in that interaction that held a similar truth to what happened to you growing up? It's almost as if by discrediting it entirely, and putting it all on you (ie your projections/perhaps your "fault" etc), it is furthering isolation/lack of connection, which, of course, was likely the safe path, or protective growing up. I'm in no way saying this to blame etc, or that you're doing something wrong, but as a point that differed from my own experience in that moment and what worked for me.

I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but I have been seeing a NARM therapist for almost two years now, and I think it has been immensely more helpful in instilling a sense of agency and self than talk therapy. Yes, we are having things come up now, but I am finding that I am talking back (hhmmmm perhaps old stuff here with this word choice - speaking up might be better) when I feel like boundaries are crossed. I think it has done a lot to instill that sense of agency through breaking up those responses you talked about in the moment and reflecting on what is going on inside at the time (when perhaps there is a change of tone or expression). I think this is the experiential element you are talking about perhaps. She has also brought some validity to my responses to people ie that I'm not just imagining that these people don't have great intentions and could be "dubious." It also started to build a sense that I am not just imagining things all the time, that there was a sense of danger growing up, even though I was told I was loved etc; where that sense of self was not allowed to exist.

I also feel similarly about a lot, or perhaps most of what we do, being projection. The first few chapters of Tenzin Wengal Rinpoches's The Yogas of Dream and Sleep break down this concept of identity very well. In his practice, he believes that we have a lamp that lights us from within that casts the light or illuminates what is without. However, and I think this may be the fundamental difference, is that it doesn't mean we are disconnected. Everything comes, or stems from the Kunzhi where the paradox is that it is empty (the void), but not completely empty as everything stems from this primordial awareness. He also gave a great youtube talk about fear (which is also tied with identity) that I can find if you want, but again, and so so interestingly for me, is that he also terms this primordial space as The Great Mother, which is a space associated with "warmth, presence and well-being" -- that connection in aloneness that I think is so difficult for many of us. I have been working this out in my journal lately, and apologies if I took up some your journal to elaborate, but I think these are important things, or maybe nuances of what you're talking about.

Sending you support 

It seems to me our sense of self is easily influenced by the strong emotions of other people. It lacks the robustness of people who were allowed to individuate properly. The ICR is part of this too, but I believe a good chunck of this is the autonomic nervous system taking the wheel during certain social situations and cognition following suit.

This is a very good summation. I want to comment more, but don't have the capacity at the moment. Thank you for your response and sending you support.

Sending you support for your holiday L2N 

There's a deep fear that people with a lot of power to do something negative to me, are going to draw terrible conclusions about me by how I act or come across, which will set the doom in motion. In places I can't escape. That is a crucial ingredient, just like it was when it started.

You know SO, this reminds me again of how similar our stories are. I often struggle to explain this feeling to people that I somehow get engaged in these "power struggles" with other people, or my deep fear of someone else's "power" over me, and my reluctance to open up and share those parts of me that won't be spoken over; that are mine. It's comforting,and validating, to know that others experience this because I feel like it's chalked up to "old stuff," or dismissed as irrational (like I SHOULD be able to get a hold on this fear, or escape it, but it's often like it's so big, or inexplicable).

I am also reminded of your entry by our conversation about people "rewiring" what I say. At least this is how I remember it, that struggle to be heard. I am currently undergoing a back and forth about this with my t, where I feel the manner in which she says things are akin to the ways that emotion was used as manipulation growing up. She feels like I'm trying to "control" her expression, and I feel like I'm asking for just some recognition. I also had the experience where it was like being baited to give an answer and then "shown," or told that there were studies that showed how just letting a client talk wasn't that effective. To me, it's the same merry-go-round of not being heard as to what my needs, and inner world require, which would actually allow me to open up and trust. Ironically, I chose a t that was about agency and the "self." So, am just offering that there is someone else who understands a bit about the feelings/aftermath that result after having grown up with a critical/encompassing force. I don't know if you've seen them, or if they would be of use, but I've found Jay Reid's videos on scapegoating to be helpful in mapping out a sort of framework for this "displaced" self. Though, there's still more understanding to come.

Sending you support,
dolly

What if it isn't selfishness at all? What if doing that is an integral part of being a healthy human being? My mind runs from any hint at selfishness as dangerous due to my past. So I am learning to think that it is not that but the fundamental right of human beings to notice their limitations, boundaries, resources, and needs. And to communicate them in a respectful way to others. As well as then limiting the access of anyone who does not agree to them.

Because to ignore my needs and boundaries, isn't it to ignore my humanity and my value? And anyone repeatedly doing this would then inherently be unsafe to be around if they do not stop and repair? What do you all think?

I think this is an incredibly insightful way to look at it. I do feel like my body (and subconscious) have other ideas at times and that's where I find the problem that when faced with "danger" it will just switch into the fawn or freeze response. I guess at the moment I'm trying to understand what that concept of "danger" is? Like any kind of conflict or power struggle seems to flick the switch as I call it, and I'm trying to unpack that. Even if my brain says one thing, it's like my body does another.

Wishing you all the best with your new journal 

I am curious...who is shaming you? And who is hating?

Fear is an interesting concept that I have been thinking about recently too.

I hope you uncover all the things you are dealing with and give rise to that more integrated sense of self 

I'm sorry DD. I think that you did the best for yourself that you knew how to do at the time and it helped you to survive. I'm sorry as well that your parents put you in that situation, that's a horrible betrayal and I can understand fighting for the need to exist. It's also something I struggle with.

I have been listening to some Heidi Priebe videos lately and she talks about how to not be manipulated by looking at the ego version/idea of ourselves that we need to survive. For me, it's so hard to shake the idea that I have to be a nice person. Like it just throws my world off if I do not adhere to this, and healthy selfishness is something I'm working on. But I get how something so normal for others can be so outside my sphere of relating.

Sending you support and a hug if that's ok 
dolly

Hi noraw,

I think you did a very good job of finding the right words for what is happening with you.

I had an EMDR therapist and have also used IFS. The EMDR therapist wanted to do deep brain reprogramming and I felt a lot of resistance to that as it would be "rewiring" underlying perverbal parts that I didn't feel I had contact with at that time. I came from an NPD household and my sense of self dissociated/detached from a very young age I think. Jay Reid's videos of growing up as a scapegoat in a narcissistic household have helped me understand how and why this happens, and I can interpret how it relates to me.

I also started seeing a NARM therapist who I think has been very helpful in helping uncover that sense of self to a degree, though issues have come up as well. We are going into the space around the fear of connection, or I find I can now start to understand and stay with the fear/anxiety that comes with connection a bit better. I would say that I probably have dissociated or hidden parts (not DID), and feel in a better space overall to have these start "coming up."

I'm not sure if your therapist mentioned it, but there is a good book on IFS and dissociation by Joanne Twombly.

I've also been uncovering and dealing with underlying health issues that have also helped facilitate this (less anxiety, more calmness).

Sending you support and I hope you find what you need here.

dolly

The thing is, that the ADHD was the missing component in my C-PTSD story. It was the gift to my protagonists, the instability in me that justified the condescension, bullying and neglect. It gave them fuel to undermine my boundaries and my privacy. And when the trauma moments reached their absolute crescendo, it made me less and less able to control my feelings, and my focus and my self moderation went to pieces, which, of course, made their lousy, petty behaviour even easier. As the trauma hit, my self control went with it, and shame was to follow.

James this is a fascinating connection. I have always searched why my boundaries often seem permeable to others around me, trying to get a "rise" out of me, and often succeeding. Why wasn't I "strong" enough to keep it out, it must be something within me that I haven't "dealt with" yet. I had a look into ADHD a while ago and was quite interested how it and trauma symptoms overlap. I posted some things on the forum. Again, I though, oh well maybe if I just dealt with the trauma as, and afterall, as a scapegoated child it was me, I was the problem and the one who had to change. Interestingly too, my t at the time seemed reluctant to label things as ADHD (citing Gabor Mate eetc), but I don't think it's always as simple as if I just work harder, I can change this (as you mentioned). I've also been looking into and adjusting things health wise that can contribute to "anxiety," but perhaps there is another piece here again. Thank you for posting this.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi Ran,

I also have a distrust of peoples' intentions and often jump to the conclusion that they are trying to hurt me. Like you, I'm also fearful avoidant. I found Heidi Priebe's videos to be interesting on attachment theory, though I think the ones that have had the biggest impact are Jay Reid's videos on growing up as a scapegoat child. I also find IFS to be helpful though am working on connecting with Self more due to preverbal trauma (I think this is where the Jay Reid videos come in).

Sending you support,
dolly

Hi Ladyboar,

I'm sorry to hear about the passing of your cat. It made such a huge impact on me when mine passed away as well.

I also understand the feelings of was it that bad? I struggled with this for a very long time because of all the "love" my family gave me. If you're interested, I just finished reading I'm Glad My Mom Died, which dealt with that idea as well, and how a parent/caregiver can be loving and abusive at the same time. I also got a lot from Believe Me by Judith (?), which was about being gaslit by her m about the abuse she endured.

Sending you support for your journey,
dolly