Messages

Lonewolf,

Welcome to the forum. You really got to me when you talk about how you are filled with love. What a beautiful thing to be filled with. Of course, I feel like the people who are most filled with love in this world are the same people who are prone to being traumatized by the cruelty of others. C-PTSD is common in truly good people. That's why there are so many truly good people on this forum. A lot of love is expressed between the good people here.

I value love over every other thing in the Universe. Being able to accept it and live within its warmth has been something I've only just recently begun to succeed at. I was diagnosed with trauma disorders in 2005. But that was my 7th therapist in 30 years. The first 6 just kept telling me to scream into a pillow and that would cool my rage. (Of course, I see it the other way around: Fighting rage with screaming is like fighting fire with gasoline...but hey...it's what their antiquated textbooks taught them years ago, so that's what they teach today.)

Love is gentle and kind, not raging and screaming into pillows.

I was forced to go full No Contact with my FOO in 2010 at age 50. I was rescued from suicide while on my way to jump off a bridge because of the flurry of lies they were all propagating about me. That was the beginning of my understanding of how much damage they'd done to me over the years. I left them to save myself. Being codependent on a family that constantly belittles and lies and gaslights their most loving members was something I couldn't understand until I got away from them and broke out of the spell of codependency.

Thank you for having the courage to publicly say that you are filled with love. Not a lot of men feel safe to say such words.

I'm glad you joined. I'm sorry you needed to, but very glad this forum is here for you, me, and all the other members who've found friendship and validation here.

Looking forward to reading more from you.

Papa Coco

Papa Coco, I went back to read some of the posts today and I realized that I didn't convey my intended appreciation for your reply to my first post on the forum.  Thank you for sharing about how you arrived at the understanding about the 'truth' of your past and I'm so glad someone got to you and saved you from jumping off the bridge.  I agree with what you said about how love is the most important thing.  I agree that it is and I have given more thought to my original statement that "I'm filled with love" - I wanted to elaborate a bit .. this doesn't mean I don't feel hate- I definitely do.  I can actually have feelings of love and hate at the same time but ultimately the love I feel that I'm filled with is God's love. It's love that understands and accepts things as they are - I'm thinking maybe it had to grow there inside me to balance out the love i wasn't getting in my life.  I hope you're well!

Hi Daloway - thanks for your comment.  The autopilot idea.. that's it.  My experience when I meet other people is the same as yours (its exhausting and sadly, it often doesn't go well,) and those bad interactions then reaffirm my feelings of not being safe with other people.  It's so hard. 

I had a bad interaction at the dog park a couple weeks ago with some lady.  I wont go into the details, but suffice it to say she was wrong and she encroached on my boundaries and I called her out on it (fight response) and she also had a "trauma reaction" and we had some harsh words between us. 

I didn't feel good after it at all, and then sort of self isolated for a couple weeks after that experience.  Another random thought is that this isn't the same for every person.  Some are much worse than others and sometimes I'm just in a little bit of a better place.  To be honest I'm not sure I've ever had an interaction with another person where I was fully "myself" and I'm starting to understand that maybe it's because my sense of self was so damaged.  yuck

Hi DesertFlower,

I like your name btw.  A beautiful fragile thing that blooms in the harsh desert environment.. I like the analogy.  Anyway, wanted to say that I think its really awesome that this realization that "its not you" is so powerful.  I have been slowly having that realization too but for me it's buried under more "stuff" because I can't seem to shake the tendency to blame myself and hate myself for everything, for nothing even though I intellectually know what I know - for me it's often still not enough to get me out of it all.  Reading your post gave me some encouragement that if I keep working at it, I might begin to feel more peaceful inside myself more of the time. That's what I want. Peacefulness

Hi Livingdeadgirl,

I'm new on this forum and your post caught my eye so I read it.  I've also read the comments and I want to share with you that while I don't experience what you describe, I can relate to it.  I have definitely felt hatred toward people.  In fact it's kind of a go-to place inside me (my wounded inner child?) but I also feel love toward other people.  I definitely relate to feeling hatred toward my family (for what they did and are still doing to me, and the "injustice" of it all) but here again I also feel love toward them.

What I hear most is your pain and I have nothing but empathy for you because I know how much this hurts.  You are very courageous to make this post and I don't agree with the poster who was trying to shame you for what you said. It was clear to me you weren't planning on acting on these feelings. Also, I totally disagree with criticizing the length of your post. Nobody forced anyone to read it.

I want to echo that Pete Walkers book and his ideas about using our anger/rage to access deeper grief and healing has been very helpful to me.  He describes anger and rage as being a sort of gateway to healing.  There's some sections that would probably be interesting/helpful to you if you haven't already read it such as "thought stopping", thought substitution and correction and other ideas. 

I'm no expert but this sounds like progress.. the fact that you recognize this stuff in yourself and the fact that you want to change it.  You can do it too, but it will just take time and patience.  I wish you the very best!

Also if you follow the bible at all.. this passage brings me a great deal of comfort Romans 12:19

Thanks Aphotic.  Appreciate your comment.  Yeah social interactions are triggering and I am weekly finding myself in awkward/difficult interactions with people.  I think its a combination of the fact that my experiences have made me sort of unapproachable by many weaker types but also that I have distorted view of myself and of the interactions which compounds the issues.  It's like there's an inner and outer manifestation of 'a dynamic' that occurs whenever I am in any interaction (and it's on a continuum, sometimes more - sometimes less). Some might call it karma.  As a Christian, I don't really believe in karma but there's something there "that plays out".  Ok, now I'm rambling so I'll also add this...  I have noticed within myself a switch that happens ANY TIME I am about to have ANY interaction with ANY other human being.  I can feel myself switch into this (mode) from which I relate to people.  This mode is not really authentically me or who I am as a person but is VERY powerful and really is at my core.  In fact, to this day I've never been able to catch it when it happens and short circuit it.  I'm not sure if it's going to be possible but I am going to keep watching myself and trying to dismantle the trauma circuitry that causes this.  My life is a daily struggle to feel at peace, at ease, serene, whole, good enough.  I think I'm in the midst of going down into the fire because while I see all the pain and suffering and struggle, I also see something good that's been slowly taking root.

peace out

Hey James, A lot in your post to respond to so I need to pick one thing right now and that is this..

I can totally relate to your struggles with your "friends" and I don't have any answers for you.

My situation is this..  First, listen to this Bob Marley song.. "Who The Cap Fits" - it talks about this.  This line:

And if your night should turn to day
A lot of people would run away


This is exactly what happened to me.  I'm in a season of isolation in my life and have been since late 2022 when my last "friend" basically ghosted me when I needed him most.

He was the last of my "friends" to turn on me.  The one before that (just a month or so before the other guy) was a whole other thing.  I didn't get ghosted but he just came out and openly started being abusive toward me.  I won't go into it now.  Prior to that (about 2 years) my other close "friend" abandoned me as well.  Me, being who I am.. those were my only "friends" and they are all gone.  Today, since I wrote off my family (including my brother, my other "friend") who also turned his back on me when I needed him most.

So I'm left to look at this and say "well, who's the common denominator in all these situations?? me. that's who. it must be me."  Fun stuff.  Not a good feeling.  I just have * luck or I pick  * friends or i'm such a piece of * that everyone leaves me.  Maybe that's it.

Hi Desert Flower,

I'm hoping the same as you, that if I take care of myself and learn the triggers and how to notice when I'm in what Pete Walker calls a "flashback" that I can reduce this awful feeling.  It's so cool that you had those couple instances of not being troubled.  If you're willing I'd be curious to hear more about those experiences.  I get what you're saying about how at our core we're not damaged and we're whole, compassionate, wise and aware and I agree with this but for me an idea that's been evolving is "who the heck am i really?"  and the answer is I am a person who had this background. That is an integral part of who I am and denying it is denying the truth of me.  I endured certain hardships which left their mark on me and those marks are scars that will never go away, so like the Kintsugi art of the Japanese mentioned in my previous post, what hurt us is the same thing that makes us unique and special.  All this doesn't help me though when it comes to flashbacks, catastrophizing, abusing myself, abandoning myself.  I still do those things and I'm hoping that some more healing under my belt things will start to feel a little better.  I hope the same for you.

Thanks for reading and replying

Hi Beijaflor57,

Thanks for responding and sharing something of your own experience.  While I'm glad on the one hand that I'm not the only one who struggles with this (I guess misery loves company) I'm also sorry that you have to struggle with it because I know how difficult it is.  I think you're right that it goes back to pre-verbal stuff.  I know, for example, that I was neglected and abused when I was an infant and a toddler and I know that my mother tried to end her pregnancy and tried to starve herself. She said she drank coffee and smoked cigarettes and (that cigg smoking was a huge part of the child abuse btw).  I know you're right about how this has a silver lining. It definitely does.  We can be the "cycle breakers" we can create a new legacy for our family and that is good. It's not all about us and our short time here..  Check out this article: https://familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/beautiful-scars-what-the-art-of-kintsugi-can-teach-us-about-healing-from-family-scapegoating-abuse-fsa?utm_source=publication-search

There's a lot here to respond to.  Look forward chatting some more

[when our parents bullied us into hating ourselves]

Hey Rizzo,

I'm new here so I'm just learning a lot of this stuff but I wanted to tell you that I know how you feel.  For me, the single worst thing I've been dealing with and the thing that pushed me to keep looking for answers, is the horrible inner critic that I have inside me.  It is a very dark and cruel entity and for most of my life I just knew it was there and that I hated it.  I didn't know this was one of the key symptoms of childhood neglect and abuse and when I learned that it was such a relief.  I still am dealing with this critic ALL THE TIME.  A good example from just the last couple days is that every time I post anything on this forum I immediately start berating myself for all kinds of things.  My self talk is SO dark.  I dont even want to share the things it says but it hurts me deeply and I need to get a hold of it.  (Like you) 

Reading Pete Walker's book had a lot of answers and validation esp around the inner critic, which I want to read it all again, but that was super enlightening. He says that "grieving" is the way out of this.  Something I'm just starting to be able to do

If you haven't read it then I recommend it.  Also, what I find is that I can cognitively know certain things like "negative self talk is bad" and "I'm really a good person" and "This inner critic is a result of my toxic childhood and caregivers" -- I *know* these things but that doesn't mean that the inner critic magically goes away.  What I try to do and sometimes this feels like I'm a flea fighting an elephant but I try to talk back to that voice and say "no shut  the * up" and even though the impact is barely noticeable I can feel that on some level it is starting to have an effect and I can only hope that if I keep working on healing and keep challenging that voice, it will eventually subside.  I also pray for help from above on this issue.

I don't know you but I know you're not a bad person and I know you're not all those bad things you tell yourself. I know because I live this too.

 

From Complex PTSD: From surviving to Thriving

"Successful critic shrinking usually requires thousands of angry skirmishes with the critic.  passionate motivation for this work often arises when we construct an accurate picture of our upbringing.  Natural anger eventually arises when we really get how little and defenseless we were when our parents bullied us into hating ourselves. p180

"These losses have to be grieved until the person really gets how much her caretakers were not caretakers, and how much her parents were not her allies.  She needs to grieve until she stops blaming herself for their abuse and/or neglect.  She needs to grieve until she fully realizes that their abysmal   parenting practices gave her that awful gift that keeps on giving: c-ptsd.,  She needs to grieve until she understands how her learned habit of automatic self-abandonment is a reenactment of their abject failure to be there for her." p218

Hi Papa Coco

I so appreciate your thoughtful response to my questions and the stuff you have shared about your own struggle with this sort of issue and work career.  I found it helpful to read about your technique of challenging beliefs.  It reminds me of the idea of "reframing" It reminds me of the idea that "the mind is the enemy" and in the case of catastrophizing that is definitely true.  The other thing that your post brought up for me is the idea of faith.  Faith is really how I get through these challenging times when I'm struggling.  I have faith in God and that his plans for me are good like it says in the Bible.  And I also have evidence in my life that this is true.  I have ways I am dealing with this struggle but I just wish I could put my energy into something else besides struggling   Thanks for your comment sir!

Lonewolf,

Great post. Great question. It really resonates with me. I just hope now that my response isn't too "out there." I'll try to make as much sense as possible:

I know that feeling well. I catastrophize a lot. I always have.

Up until today I called this a trust issue. I didn't trust the world, or the Universe, or my country or my employer or anyone else to always be there for me. Today, in my morning meditation, trust came up and I realized there's no such thing as a trust issue. It's a knowing issue. I don't need to force myself to trust that the sun will come up again tomorrow morning, because I know it will. Trust isn't an issue.

The reason I could always trust a sunrise, but could never trust my employers, or my country, or my FOO, or my neighbors, was because I KNEW they could turn on me in an instant. I knew this because my FOO turned on me every time they had a bad day. My employer nearly laid me off 7 times and finally did after I'd been with them for 42 years. They laid me off. During the 42 years I worked there, I watched them lay off hundreds of my friends who needed jobs. So, my inability to trust my employer caused me to catastrophize about employment all the time. It was due to the fact that, through witnessing it happen 7 times, I KNEW they were capable of getting rid of me at any moment.  I knew the sun would rise tomorrow but I knew my employer was not so predictable. So I didn't worry about the sunrise, but I did worry incessantly about my employment.

I catastrophize because I've seen how the world works. So for me to begin trusting in "God" or "Fate" or "luck" or even my own ability to earn a living and trust my friends, means I need to ask myself why I know what I know. There are people who know their family will support them in any pickle they can get into. They don't have trust issues; therefore they don't catastrophize.

There's no simple answer to this, but the complicated answer is that I have to challenge what I know and why I know it. If I KNOW someone can hurt me, I assume they will. I imagine it. I watch for it. I expect it. I plan for it. I worry myself sick over it. So, I call that catastrophizing.

I remember when I KNEW my wife would leave me if I lost my job. I told my therapist about it. He shook his head and said, "No way do I believe Coco would ever leave you for any reason, especially for losing your job." I was 44 at the time.  His words were the first words I'd ever heard that challenged what I thought I knew. I walked into his office knowing my wife would leave me if I lost my job. An hour later I walked out of his office knowing that she wouldn't. It changed my ability to trust her. And I stopped catastrophizing about her leaving me. I've never believed she'd ever leave me since. That was 20 years ago.

What I know in my gut is what I believe to be true. I catastrophized about being left by the love of my life because I know from experience that family will abuse their own child and throw me out if I don't "behave" and take care of them.

But once I got away from anyone who is prone to turn on me, I began to know I had some good friends who would support without insulting me. That's when I stopped catastrophizing my relationships.  What I know becomes what I believe which drives my fears and my expectations. If I know someone can hurt me, I worry about it. If I know they won't, I'm free to worry about other things. LOL.

Hi Dollyvee thanks for the support. I think you're right about the early pre-verbal/pre-cognitive experiences.  I was definitely not treated well as an infant and toddler.  I will check out Healing Developmental Trauma. Thanks for the rec!  Have a great day!

Lonewolf,

Welcome to the forum. You really got to me when you talk about how you are filled with love. What a beautiful thing to be filled with. Of course, I feel like the people who are most filled with love in this world are the same people who are prone to being traumatized by the cruelty of others. C-PTSD is common in truly good people. That's why there are so many truly good people on this forum. A lot of love is expressed between the good people here.

I value love over every other thing in the Universe. Being able to accept it and live within its warmth has been something I've only just recently begun to succeed at. I was diagnosed with trauma disorders in 2005. But that was my 7th therapist in 30 years. The first 6 just kept telling me to scream into a pillow and that would cool my rage. (Of course, I see it the other way around: Fighting rage with screaming is like fighting fire with gasoline...but hey...it's what their antiquated textbooks taught them years ago, so that's what they teach today.)

Love is gentle and kind, not raging and screaming into pillows.

I was forced to go full No Contact with my FOO in 2010 at age 50. I was rescued from suicide while on my way to jump off a bridge because of the flurry of lies they were all propagating about me. That was the beginning of my understanding of how much damage they'd done to me over the years. I left them to save myself. Being codependent on a family that constantly belittles and lies and gaslights their most loving members was something I couldn't understand until I got away from them and broke out of the spell of codependency.

Thank you for having the courage to publicly say that you are filled with love. Not a lot of men feel safe to say such words.

I'm glad you joined. I'm sorry you needed to, but very glad this forum is here for you, me, and all the other members who've found friendship and validation here.

Looking forward to reading more from you.

Papa Coco

Papa Coco - Thanks!  See you again soon I'm sure

Hi All, thanks for your comments.  I appreciate them so much.

I've been on a healing journey all my life, except for most of it, I didn't know exactly what it was I was healing from. 

I just knew I was broken.  I'm going to digress a little here too.. and say that so often, I run into this idea of "hey, you were abused. you're not broken."  And people are like "yay, joy! I'm not actually broken.." except I AM broken.  It's the history.  You can't undo that damage.  You can only learn to live with it, in spite of it.  Anyway...  I am damaged and that damage results in me often feeling a sense of "impending doom" (catastrophizing) mostly around my work/career/income and winding up on the street.  See, I have no backup and nobody is ever going to help me if I get in trouble.  If I get sick or hurt and I can't work I'm in big trouble. When I can't work anymore I will be in trouble.. I haven't got myself into a place where I can live off a nest egg or whatever.  So what I've done is to "face my fears" and I've imagined 'ok so I'm homeless here's what life would be like...'  That helped a little I guess, but really I just would like to feel safe.  I would like to feel secure.  I would like to feel confident that I will be okay and that I can get by.

The thing is now... I can't feel that way. If I lose my income I'm screwed.  So, I'm working on trying to re-imagine my life.  A life doing the things I want to do (instead of what I have to do). I want to derive my income from something that flows naturally from who I am and my strengths (those things nobody can take away from me) except right now I don't know what that's going to be. I'm working on it.   One of my healing goals is to eliminate or greatly reduce this sense of impending doom.  If anyone can relate or has some ideas of things that might help I would like to hear them.  Thanks for reading.

Hi - thanks for the welcome messages. I changed my name to lonewolf from coloradokid.