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Hello Pelicantown, welcome to the Forum. I hear you about relating to folks out there in the "real" world. It's sometimes very discouraging. I've made zero new friends in the past ten years (well, maybe one). But compared to the number of people I've just completely lost contact with and very little energy to renew those acquaintances... No, I'm definitely done with small-talk, I hear you about that one. I'm trying to rewire a neuronal catastrophe in my brain and the idea of 'drink til you drop' and 'when's the next dopamine rush' just makes me sigh.

None of that here! Sometimes we drink too much tea, and there're always cookies on the Healing Porch, but beyond that it's 100% real around here (at least that's my opinion :-)
Warm welcome. Sending hugs if that's okay (and it's okay to say it's not okay!)
 

Just saw the post, clicked the link, joined in... Wow, how's that for perfect timing. Had a very good cry fifteen minutes in, lots of release. Really nice. Thank you again, Armee!

Safe and respectful, those are exactly what everyone needs. So very very happy that this T filled that security need. They're out there, hard to find and difficult sorting through the various themes and personalities, but they do exist. Looking forward to hearing how things progress.
Much love and support, San! Thinking about you very often.
 

Very cool SO! It's such a gift when things start flowing.
 

Dark.art.girl, Very happy to read your latest post. Sounds like lots of positive movement. Very cool!
I made a thread with links to the stuff that I'm doing, plus PRM. Here it is:
https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=17078.0
 

Thanks Armee!!!

Thank you San, thank you Armee!!!
 

 

And now who is being "helpful!" I am writing about this I guess in hopes of getting out of this place that I have found myself in since being a child, and the path to connecting to my own more authentic self, anger included.

This hits a button for me. I have analyzed things my whole life, trying to decide if what I am doing is for me, or comes from my conditioning. Now, by trying to help people, am I just fulfilling a manifest destiny imposed by toxic caregiver dynamics?

Ultimately, no. I now understand that dynamic and although I'm not totally immune to it's influence, I still feel strongly that I make decisions and act on situations based on what I believe is "good". (And I'm not implying that anyone is suggesting the reverse, just that I find the dynamic fascinating, but complex enough that it's tricky to explain, especially without implications.) Did that make sense?

I'd like to add, I think, PC and DV, you are doing EXACTLY the same. Taking those parts that come from toxicity and then making them your own BECAUSE you've examined them minutely and determined that "being that way" is ok now, despite it's horrible origins. It's the idea of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. My mother trained me to emotionally take care of her. So for better or for worse, I got an intensive crash-course early on and quite frankly became darn good at it. Too many times in my life it totally backfired. I still have to continue being careful after all these years. Understanding limits and what's healthy is still not second-nature for me. I sometimes goof up. But overall, I sense that I can be very good at something that very often is very positive, a lot of which came from my narcissistic mother. So for that, I have to rejoice in the universal "process". The origin of all is one. Evil is only born out of a total misunderstanding of Love (imo :-)
 

God that's a great feeling, isn't it, SO!

I did something similar yesterday. Called a guy on the phone and explained that I didn't think their behavior was appropriate. The guy tried the lame excuse of being innocent and just doing as he was told. I called BS on that (politely) and then when he accused me of being rude I honestly responded, no, I'm telling you what I think, and stating it calmly and factually. We hung up on totally correct terms, and I know he got the message and I injected a tiny drop of "this could be a better world" if our awareness was a little expanded into a very thick skull somewhere. I was all jittery in my body after the conversation, but boy did I feel a solid sense of satisfaction. I stood up for the client, but I also stood up for myself in the midst of the call itself, not to mention having thought it through and taken the initiative to put myself out there.

Bravo to you SO for doing what you did. Maybe we are actually moving forward. It so helps to know we're together in all this.
  

PC, your post really got me reflecting. Two things specifically: one is that I wasn't scapegoated, rather it was the reverse. My job was to "save" the family. In that role I had "love privileges". I got all the love I needed from her as in line with my training. Probably, at minimum, I had a sense of relative value as a baby. Although, when I'd failed to produce the intended effect, my "role" took on a whole new dimension. It was subtle, insidious, but it was implicit and everyone knew it, I was the strong one, the adventurer, the popular one... special. But of course the half-truth held an ugly reality just below the surface. Understanding my own family dynamic, I have to say it was definitely easier for me to escape and although guilt-ridden, I've nonetheless managed to move on with my life with minimal residual guilt for abandoning my mother. As toxic systems go, I think mine was the lesser of two evils. (Dolly made reference to this recently and I'm still processing it...)

The other thought that came up was a situation with my ex-wife and eldest daughter years ago. It was a situation where my ex and I both "ganged-up" on our eldest daughter. Our D was maybe 12. Her mom got angry with her (or maybe it was me) and we both got on a wagon of anger and reproach and loud high voices just ripping into our poor daughter. I remember her scared and bewildered face. I also remember how "good" it felt to vent my anger finally. I was also "bonded" with my wife with whom I regularly was in conflict with. Big frickin' messy toxic situation. And so sad for my daughter. Unless I'm gravely mistaken, that was not a regular event. I don't believe we turned anyone into the family scapegoat. But what rings inside me is the recognition of that "feeling" of satisfaction I felt. I think I fully comprehend what your author is talking about and the "function" of the scapegoat in the family.

The more complex and finely tuned the instrument (eg. Brain) the more easily it can go all wonky.

HannahOne, you remind me just how hard this stuff is. Damned if you do-stuff... I don't believe in screaming by orders from higher-up. But the higher-ups aren't always wrong. Annoying that.

Thank you everyone, thank you so very much. I'm back at work today. It's hard, but peanuts compared to Cptsd.

The Alan Schore video helped me "see" the baby I was. Incidentally, I'm wondering at the possible under-estimation of preverbal trauma... It's not even repression... the memory systems just don't exist. So, seeing the extent of toxic behavior, it's conceivable that that toxic behavior was in function from the get-go, that is to say from birth. Toxic parents aren't going to "wait" until the infant is more fully developed to start their toxic shenanigans... Anyway, maybe not exactly my place to "suggest"... Everyone's experience is unique. The idea's a can of worms actually... Sorry, I'm tired.

In-utero to age three/four... attachment... unconditional love.

There's no substitute.

I didn't have safety.
My boundaries weren't anyone's particular priority...
Love? My older sister was happy to have me as a friend. More and more I'm coming back to that fact. That's not nothing. My sis... she sent me a video today, of her, digging her car out of the snow... I joked with her... Please be careful with the ICE... Come to think of it, it's not a joke...

Thankyou TheBigBlue!

I try to remember the bad things to avoid the guilt. I still just want loving parents sometimes, though.

I believe that is normal and healthy. Was just writing about that to NarcKiddo...
But the truth is we have to take care of ourselves now. No more guilt for parents who totally messed me up. I took care of my mother long enough, was never my job, and now I'm stumbling around and trying to straighten myself out.

It's sad, really sad. But that's how it is.