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[I haven't shared anything near the extent of my childhood neglect and all types of abuse with my kids. I don't even think they think my childhood was particularly unpleasant or challenging, they just think it was a bit impoverished compared to theirs. They don't know I was ever struck.]

HannahOne,
I have three kids, 19, 17 and 12. I am estranged from my eldest daughter (19). She is Trans and has rejected me from her life. I think I fully understand why she did this. My son (17) has recently returned to France after two years attending school in the US. He jumped at an opportunity to get out of the family dynamic. I think he did right. I also think the Universe did right by arranging things that he comes back now. My youngest daughter (12) currently occupies most of my time: I set my priorities thus: Make money to take care of us; Research, therapy, healing practices, etc to take care of myself; Everything else, working to take care of my three children, the youngest of which requires the most time and energy. I'm globally content with my current parenting. I cannot change things in the past, but I am doing a very good job in the present and have learned an enormous amount about myself that has helped me become a much better parent. I cannot stress that enough, I have a much better relationship with myself today than ever I had in the past. As such, my relationship with my kids is much much easier and better (even my daughter who doesn't want me in her life, which I am respecting but not suffering from).

I discovered Cptsd in August of 2023, (a Cptsd video on YouTube. :-) From that point on I began a massive change that was in no way shape or form easy or pleasant. Things definitely got way way worse. I broke up a serious intimate relationship and subsequently experienced a mental collapse. I wanted very much to end my life during this period. The fact that I had three children factored into that decision-making process VERY profoundly. Simply put, I began for the first time in my life to understand myself in a context that finally made sense: Developmental Trauma. It is impossible to understand Cptsd and NOT apply the concepts of it to our own children. A good metaphor might be: the cat is out of the bag, and kids don't have much experience with the cat's claws.

For me, the relationship I had with my own children changed enormously when I discovered the true impact of trauma on my Self and my Behavior.

I wanted to give some context to my own situation. I think it's important because no two situations are the same, and as we know there's no one-size-fits-all, particularly with development. I now talk about some subjects with my son, who is older, that I don't necessarily bring up with my daughter, or when they come up, I handle them differently. All that being said, I'll give you my feedback/opinion regarding the questions your raised. But this is just my opinion and by no means the final say in the matter. There are plenty of times I've not followed the classic advice in certain situations. I actually believe that children are far smarter than anyone realizes. Unconsciously treating them contrary to this I believe can keep them from realizing their own capacities.

I haven't shared anything near the extent of my childhood neglect and all types of abuse with my kids. I don't even think they think my childhood was particularly unpleasant or challenging, they just think it was a bit impoverished compared to theirs. They don't know I was ever struck.

My experience is that kids know A LOT more than what they give out. They might know it in a different modality, like in their bodies, but they know it. My daughter particularly has stunned me with the depths of her understanding, and not lessened by the manner in which it seems to appear out of nowhere. She once told a group of people, in my presence, surrounding the subject of family relations, very directly and simply, that her father had suffered maltreatment when he was a baby. She didn't go into details, no explanations, just the correct response to a question that was completely true. I looked at my daughter completely differently after that. Of course I had previously mentioned this, but I had not phrased it in that manner, nor gone into any details. But my daughter had intrinsically understood.

My kids are 14 and 18 now. The 18 year recently said that they know I don't like my parents, but don't know why. We were very LC throughout their lives and NC the last few years, so they have met my parents but not seen anything like the full picture of who they are.

Again, I think children pick up on a lot more than we realize. We're talking about shared DNA. I mentioned to my kids the other day that I did not want to see or talk to my mother. They didn't even ask why. I forget the question exactly, but I explained about the last time I had spoken to my mother and the fact that my mother had bullied and disrespected me. I added that I knew why, that she was scared and was certainly having a crisis of her own. But both my kids explicitly replied that they understood and I got the very strong impression that they totally agreed and supported me. I left it there and didn't continue, as there didn't seem to be any need of going into details (I'll come back to that idea in a minute.)

I want to share a little more of my history with my kids. I feel they need to know more who I am, and where I come from, as it's part of their own wider story. And the older one is asking. I would like them to understand better why I raised them as I did so they can make sense of their world.

I don't think children (or anybody) "need to know" anything. The question is rather, would it be beneficial, positive, advantageous in some way to know the story? The answer is very often, yes, but it's not straightforward. First, how much is actually your own desire to "share" your story with others? For this aspect I suggest careful caution. I grew up with a mother who passed off things to me in the guise of it being good for me... when in reality is was NOT good for me, it was in fact what she wanted. This is a VERY tricky element of parenting and with Trauma it is especially important. Over the years, I've looked back and seen very clearly that sometimes what I thought I was doing "for" my children, was in fact "for" myself. And this doesn't have to be bad. But I know now that I have to be aware of this and ask myself this question in advance. One thing I've learned, and is more and more clear to me, is that less is better. Less of "me" imposing on "them". I can be me, and as a natural process, my kids see this... and know inherently, intrinsically, that they can become who they truly are. But "forcing" this very often backfires or has the reverse effect... (I hope that makes sense... :-)

At the same time I am afraid that if they know even the bare outline, they would feel guilty/feel like they need to take care of me.

Two things: Do you think you are explicitly or implicitly asking them to take care of you? Are you insidiously putting stress and pressure in such a way as to manipulate their behavior to achieve a result that you want? (My very strong conviction to that question is, NO. I do no think you would be on this forum asking these kinds of questions if that is in fact what you are doing, at least, on a systematic basis.) But in all relationships, this CAN happen. We all need someone to take care of us at different points in our life. Also, taking care of other people can be extremely rewarding, enriching, gratifying. So the point is, with children, where is the "good" ground? Why does my daughter LOVE, absolutely LOVE, making me my coffee in the morning? Am I abusing her? Manipulating her? Not at all. I'm actually empowering her. She's learned how to deal with the kettle, boiling water, measuring quantities, etc etc. She's proud as all get-out to be able to do that. Now this is different than emotional support, but still, there is nothing automatically wrong with one person giving support to another. It simply has to be dealt with in the appropriate context and to the appropriate measure.

Something else... As I suffer from abandonment trauma, I find it incredibly hard to ask for help. I will try to do everything myself and NEVER admit that I have passed my limits. This was a huge error on my part, for years. I literally made life more difficult for everyone around me, including myself, by trying to do everything myself. I'm now, much much better about that. I just let it not happen. I just tell everybody, nope, I didn't forget, I just couldn't get around to it. My kids understand 100%, I'm absolutely sure of it. Mind you, I also accept their own situations when they don't manage to do something. I think kids intrinsically sense balanced systems. So long as it's relatively fair, things are much much smoother. But what's interesting here is the guilt feeling, and perhaps identifying where it's really coming from.

Or that they would feel less safe in the world overall, knowing how bad people can be.

There's a great part in the book Dune, where the mother superior warns Jessika of the dangers of over-protecting her son... Again, this is a question of degree and context... But isn't it important to know just how dangerous the world can be? My daughter was recently targeted by a pedophile. What astonished me was to what degree she didn't identify this person's behavior as dangerous. She simply didn't know. This was not a subject I had discussed with her, or anybody... when a man four times your age asks you for photos of yourself in your underwear... this is BAD. Even after we had talked for several days, the real implication of the situation didn't register with her. How could it? I can barely imagine such a situation myself... how on earth was she supposed to understand it at age 12? So it took a long time for all that to solidify in her mind. She needed help and support and this was a situation where I knew I had to "force" the topic, because she herself just wanted it to disappear, to go away, to ignore it. But fortunately there were others who helped me out, particularly my son. His sister adores him and thus is much more open to what he has to say. The situation is not finished, but I don't feel nearly as stressed as I did and this is largely due to the knowledge that my daughter now understands better how to protect herself.

Or even that they might respect me less somehow. It would have been better to tell them gradually over the years and it shouldn't be a big secret. Now I just can't find the words. 

It has not been my experience that my children respect me less, in any situation. Children observe their parents and it fashions their own range of possible behaviors. Some they adopt, others they don't. Ultimately it's up to them. If they don't like something about their parents, they may tell them, or they may not. Such is the evolution of relationships. My eldest daughter clearly has a very negative opinion of me at the moment. Does this mean I'm a horrible person? I don't think so. Although it does give me an opportunity to look at some aspects of myself that she clearly sees in me and I can ask myself if those elements are valid? All relationships are opportunities for development and growth...

On Christmas day, I read my kids a christmas card I'd received from good friend. As I was reading it, I got choked up and started to cry. I cry a lot more these past few years than I did in the more distant past. I always feel a little ashamed, but I know, I KNOW, that children seeing their parents expressing emotion is not in any way shape or form "bad" for them. Quite the contrary... What's important is that they understand where the emotion is coming from. So when I cry in front of my kids I always explain why I'm crying. It's important that they know explicitly what I'm experiencing at that moment. My kids understand. I know they understand. Once, my daughter found the little doll that represented my inner child I used with my therapist in therapy. She asked about it, and I simply told her the simple truth. It was my inner child that I was "taking care of". She nodded and told me that I could have any of her stuffed animals if they could help. She understood. No big deal, just comprehension.

(I hope I'm not sounding pedantic... when I reread this I'm very confident that these ideas are neither new or unknown to others. I just mention all this as my experience...)

So here is my solution: I "open the door" with my kids. I mention a subject, like sex with my son. Usually it doesn't come out of nowhere. He or I have had an experience where it's related. I told my son recently that I wanted him to know that if he had any questions about sex or anything related to girls, or relationships, or whatever, he could ask me. I explained that I had bought him a box of preservatives, and that I felt strongly that as his father I needed to at least address the subject. There is a lot to know and learn about all of this, and I'm NOT going into it now, nor will I particularly go into it at all, UNLESS he has questions. The door is open, and I promise to answer the questions as simply and directly as possible, not going into other subjects, but sticking just to what he wants to know...

After stuff like that, I shut up... :-)

That is my general rule. I don't hide what's going on, but I don't force it either. I believe the best way to handle these things is to let it come naturally, smoothly. And for me at least, to not let it go too far (but that's just me :-)

Sorry for the long post. And sorry for the "advice". I tried as best I could to keep it to my own personal experience, and everything else is also just my opinion. If I have inferred anything upon you that you are not in agreement with I'll change it or remove this post entirely. But nonetheless thank you for a great topic as it's helped me sort out in my own head a very convoluted subject that I am also still working on. But I'm so grateful to my kids. They allow me to push myself in a very good way, good for them AND good for me.
-chart

Thank you everyone!! I am to a certain extent "giving up" responding to posts on my journal. I ask your understanding, as I am simply feeling overwhelmed after a life of trying to control and organize and categorize and hurt NO ONE even those who either through their behavior merit the turning of my back or the soles of my feet as I walk away... I am wheeling in circles, catching glimpses of "real-life" in between the flashes of pain that still blind me ten to twenty times per day. I believe I am losing my sense of "old-self" and what is coming in its place is strange and disorienting. Transformation is a painful process too. It is not only the suffering of the past that lingers in my cells, but the fear of the new me that strides directly at me in a crowded street, our eyes lock and I get that thrill of novelty that I have so craved, sought and created my whole life. It is insanity to change, yet I cannot keep it from coursing into and through me. I have lost myself, in order that I might be found.

My new friends, both in my head, here on the forum, and hidden behind the woodwork, are whispering to me. They suggest I speak of the present moment. And I think this is wonderful advice. Funny how I carry the past into the present. But I can choose what I keep now, more and more. I flip from one idea to the next with quick decision... the old patterns dropping to the ground as quickly as my ancient neural networks fire them off. I want some things from the past, but most I wish to release. There're new things coming into those old dead places. New growth coming from the compost of the past. I've been contacted these past weeks by multiple people from my past. A well-known jazz pianist I met on the tennis courts in New York was billed in the performance center just a few clicks up the street from where I now live. I stopped in my tracks as I passed and stared at the old familiar face and felt it was a sign from the Universe... A week later I sat in the audience listening and as I often do now, cried, remembering the man I used to be, that city I cruised on my bike from one end to the other... what another lifetime, what another person. I don't recognize myself anymore. I'm suspicious. I feel something is coming, but I've no idea what it might be... could it be life itself? Can life get bigger? Better? Wider? Denser? Can life really change for the worst? I sense it differently now... "There is nothing either good nor bad, but thinking makes it so..." -Bill
Received a text from an old friend last night... while talking to a new friend... it was almost too much. This old friend I've missed, so news from him was quite special. And he is greatly similar to my new friend with whom I was actively speaking... crazy serendipity. It's all getting to be too much. In the sense that I can't untangle it all. A week with my kids too, which was easy and simple and fun. Dare I say it comes from a new-found inner place of peace and balance? I don't know. I can't work it out rationally... The situation is too simple for my maddeningly complex organizational system created during five decades of confusion. Only at one point was I dogmatic. I "forced" my kids to take a walk around town on Christmas day. They'd agreed the day before when I'd proposed it, then when the afternoon actually came they both tried to weasel out of it. I held fast... then dragged them to the last place on earth they wanted to go... the Cathedral! I've raised two little die-hard atheists and they moaned with dismay as I led the way into the edifice. "It doesn't have to be a prison of reductionist ignorance..." I tried to explain, a big smile on my face... "It's a space-ship that can transport you to higher planes of conscious thought..." Perhaps there is a loving god after-all, as they settled down into a vociferous acquiescence of divergent questions and comments. We walked fast up and down the nave and transepts. Finally they got annoyed at my pace and sat down in the seats, talking between themselves. I made a tour, came back with my phone out and snapped off a bunch of pictures of the two in conversation. I am so god-awfully proud of these two... no idea how these things work out, but they are content in their present existence (imo) and seek fun as only complex organisms on a carbon-based life-infested planet can do. I suggested that more advanced species than ours would one day ponder our objective in constructing such structures. The whales will almost certainly rub their heads in wonder... "but isn't it obvious they all self-imploded and went extinct?" We came home and further expanded our consciousnesses with a Harry Potter film. Some realities are indeed far better than others.

I looked up the county records this morning in the town where I was born. A recent post by Dollyvee in her journal inspired me to try and find the records of my biological father. I'm unsure if he is still alive. It doesn't really matter, but I'm curious. I verified that there was no death under his name for the years that my kids were born. (Best not take any chances But beyond that I found very little. Did find where my great-uncle is buried, the one who died horribly in an accident making the first atomic bomb. If I ever go back to my birthplace I might try to visit his grave. Or not. It's all raindrops in the sea.

There are two terms, or concepts I've been thinking about lately. One is from Lisa Feldman Barrett (LFB) and the other is the term "non-duality" which has been popping up lately and I've decided to quickly classify it. My understanding of non-duality is the idea that everything is one, nothing is separate. I believe this concept. However, I've been curious how best to "get to that state". Since I operate in a dual-system universe, that is to say that everything has it's representative opposite, then I'm necessarily obliged to understand the contrast if I want to get anywhere in life... at least average everyday life. So I've decided that non-duality is actually like ones and zeros... one is one... zero is nothing. Both are necessary to construct a "reality". But since zero is nothing, one is all there "is", thus everything is non-dual. What I believe through all this, is that I need the two halves of my brain to function in this reality. But the "true" reality is that my two halves are actually two sides to one thing that is whole. Why on earth might this be? Why not make just one single thing? The answer I've invented for myself is that the sum of two things is actually "greater" than the simple addition of those two things... The sum of the parts is greater than the whole. To my thinking, this is why Emdr helps... when the one and the zero team up, they are capable of producing something that is new and different. And if anything can suggest a better modality to trauma healing than experiencing things in a "new and different" manner I'm sure I don't know what that could be...

Now the other thing I've been sifting through my head lately is "prediction error". (I have struggled with this because it keeps coming into my head as "error prediction" and that is not at all the same thing... (I'm pretty sure.)) So I'm going to break this down very quickly. I've used AI to help me on this, which isn't a justification that it's right, I just think that transparency is important here as to where I'm getting my "organization".

Prediction error can be positive, negative or zero. "Learning" occurs when there is positive or negative prediction error. For zero, nothing happens. Trauma is negative prediction error. And positive prediction error is enlightenment... eventually (and for lack of a better term). So described in these terms, prediction error also takes into the calculation the inherent assumption that certain behaviors are beneficial to the survival of a species, and other behaviors are destructive to the survival of a species. Trauma is the establishment of a series of behaviors that the brain (very accurately) attributes a negative survival paradigm. And the negative is extremely powerful, thus the neuronal patterning takes the parental behavior and attributes it correctly to a destructive and dangerous "prediction". As such, the emotional centers of the brain set off the warning bells whenever a situation even slightly resembling the core experiences occurs. Thus the brain stays trapped in a safety-loop which, for survival and safety's sake, doesn't change, regardless the "reality" which is in fact NOT dangerous.

So, put very simply, an EF (emotional flashback) is just another term for a prediction error.

How is this helpful? I mean, we all know that our EFs are just past childhood experiences and events resurfacing. Well, for me, putting my EFs into the terminology of "prediction error" does go a long way in helping me understand what is going on on a slightly deeper level. It helps me understand that my brain is "making a mistake" even in the instant of the horrible emotional overwhelm. The concept of prediction error, gives me just a little more distance between the feelings and the "sense of self" that does on occasion exist beyond this feeling. Prediction error is nothing more than a name for something that helps to more accurately understand what "it" actually is. I had the same experience when I discovered the acronym CPTSD. For me, Prediction Error is the element that allows me to define my EF in such a way that I have a little bit more elbow room to see and appreciate my inner children, the ones who suffered this process and the ones who are fated to repeat this suffering due to the neuronal necessity to "learn it or die".

So I understand better, much better, that the reality I currently live in, is constructed by me and my brain. And it's got it wrong to a very large degree. It has it wrong for a very good reason, but I'd like now to correct that error and open up those parts of my brain dedicated to a false threat to other possibilities and experiences.

I'm not entirely satisfied with how I expressed all that. But I want now to get "mes fesses" outside for a little walk. I'm going to go up to the library to look at beautiful women (they always seem to hang out at the library :-)

 

Welcome HannahOne, I find this Forum is a crazy-house of mirrors. Everywhere I roam here I find reflections of my own experience. It is troubling and comforting all at the same time. But the "alone-ness" has disappeared for me. It took awhile to get used to it, but it sure is nice now. I'm sorry to hear your history, but so very glad you are with us here.
Sending hugs if that's okay, chart
 

Thank you, Kizzie. It helps so much having Oots here and knowing this group is part of my community.
 

Beautifully expressed,  Gromit. Thank you, you have given me much food for thought in a situation very close to my own circumstances.

Hey Marcine, your story makes me think... mine was reciprocal love... "I'll do x for you but then you'll do y for me..." Every "service" had a price. 57 years later I finally identified much of the same functioning within myself and the relationships I'd established around me... the recognition was hard. This realization of a programing-pattern moved me rapidly to pure nausea. I woke up to a toxic tradition I carried with a scream. And I'm deeply proud to say I stopped doing it in the instant it was identified (or almost).

Marcine, I think we are all incredibly strong-willed. Just give us the freedom to "see" and we engage. Change is good, a darn nice habit to encourage.
 

Hey BB, I'm certain the wood fires we start here never go out. It is indeed a magical place. I'm gonna meditate awhile while my kids play with their new presents. The fire's really nice.

This is the breakthrough I made this Christmas. I vowed to myself to keep myself safe. I'm done serving others at the expense of myself. I've done enough. I will participate and learn to handle safe and mutual relationships that honor the boundaries and resources of both.

Absolutely DD, beautifully expressed.
Happy Holidays to yo too.
 

Thank you everyone.

I'm greatly struggling to respond to those who've commented in my journal here. For some (very mysterious) reason I'm finding inspiration and optimism in the experiences of others here on the forum, in others' journals and the recent threads. I feel a new "self" is somehow establishing itself... ever so slowly, like a crab molting, its new soft shell carefully setting into place.

I'm also incredibly busy with my kids and it's enormously  rewarding. Unless I'm very much deluded, they are happy and these past few days have been really smooth and fun. I'm seeing and feeling things differently. The void of love (my attachment wound) is not so devastating as it's been in the recent past. I feel patience in me and don't react the way I used to. I feel I've learned so much in this past four months since my move. It's been so horribly difficult... especially last September, of which I've written little. It was (and still is) such a drama. But the "impact" has been ever so slightly in line with those Buddhist concepts of simple stoic observation. Nowhere near perfect or enlightened, but just enough that I've had a glimpse through the wall into a garden of peace. There are pears hanging from lovely branches in the sunlight. There are smiling faces too, each one in the form of a forum "friend" you the people I now know, love and deeply care for. It's fantastic (as SO has also pointed out to me many times
:-), I have friends, and they "get it" and as much as I give I get back twice as much.

I've got to sleep now. Christmas tomorrow morning. My daughter has already tried negotiating 8am... we got her to nine but I fully understand her excitement and I feel it too.

Merry Christmas everyone. May peace find its way into our neuronal chaos and push back the thing that so dominates our existence... But nonetheless I imagine... without that horrible tragedy, I'd never have known this blessed connection. It very well might make all that pain worth every h*llish moment. I thank you all.

Indeed, looking forward to a nice few days ahead. I explained to my kids that I didn't want to see my mother for the traditional Christmas video call. They both said no problemo and seemed to completely understand. So I'm pretty prepared and relaxed.

Wishing everyone here and everywhere a stressless and happy holiday period.
 

The flowers of the desert have to choose very carefully their moment to open and expose themselves to a consistently harsh environment. As such they are deeply, intrinsically wise. They know in their core of what the land, wind, and sun are creating around them. Season after season they learn and modify, testing, sometimes failing, sometimes closing up again to await better conditions. But even in difficulty, they are in union with themselves.

What a wonderful post to read in your journal. Thank you DF. Sounds like you're striking out in a whole new way of being.
 

Happy to hear it Alliematt!

I am also bumping this thread for anybody having trouble round Christmas/ New Year's.

I think I'm being a lousy friend irl atm so it's no wonder no one is reaching out.

Great idea to bump this thread BB! But I had a weird disorientation when I read my own post you quoted. I suddenly didn't know what year it was. A kinda time-warp.

I've discussed with a few other people setting up a Holiday open zoom meeting. I love the idea, but am actually kinda scared to take on the project. I just don't trust myself one week to the next. And the idea in itself is complicated...
[sigh]

(Sorry if this reply was a bit jumbled up due to the state I'm in.)

Yeah, me too Hope, thanks for that binaural link. I actually downloaded that exact one ans listen to it on a little mp3 player I have. 40 minutes a might? Most nights I listen. Serious experimentation. The only (pretty) clear sign is my irritated bowel syndrome has "gotten worse". Not 100% sure there's a link, but it's pretty noticeable. Anyway, all that's me. Sounds like you're pretty zen at the moment and the awareness is strong, but not overwhelming. Good place to be. Ps. I love libraries too. :-)