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It's exhausting to be people pleasing when I'm with people and lonely when I'm not. Trauma does this to us: It gives us pendulum swings from one reality to the other, back and forth, without stopping in the middle to balance ourselves out. I'm either exhausted from people pleasing or I'm alone and lonely. No in between. That's what trauma does to me.  It doesn't allow me to blend my parts back together for a balanced view of life and love.

Papa Coco, your words always hit me hard, in a good way. There have been a number of times that your ability to write what I am feeling has really reached out and made me feel seen. Thank you and I hope that in our journeys you can feel the same sense from others now and again too.


Ironically, the number of people here responding that they feel the same way is a comfort. Thank you for your support. You all have really brought my day up.
 

Does anyone else here navigate life really alone alone?

I live by myself with no pets or room mates. Everyone I know, I keep at at least so much distance. As soon as I start to feel really close to someone, I get triggered and I can't get out without cutting ties from them completely. Once I have some breathing room, I can start to understand that I was triggered and what triggered me. I've made a little progress with EFT and EMDR when I can figure out a memory or an issue I'm having. But they keep coming. Even if I can figure something out, there's just more and more and more pooled up.

I can't be around others. Not really. I got to see my younger brother a few weekends ago, and it was nice. His wife and child and family just felt so comfortable around one another. They could tease and joke and hold one another so freely. You could sense that they really knew one another and drew comfort in each other. I have no idea how to be like that. I wish that I could. I have spent a long time surviving by convincing myself that I didn't need it or didn't want it. Now, I see that I want it, but I can't seem to reach it. I've pushed so hard but now I don't know how to draw it in to me.

Logically, I'm sure there have to be others like me out there, but how do I find someone who is lost? Even the few that I know who understand cptsd and trauma, they typically have someone in their life. I feel alone in that no one I know seems to fully grasp what this is like. Everyone asks if I ever consider having a room mate or getting a pet. I can't do it. I have a deep need to be alone. Even building and maintaining genuine friendships just doesn't seem feasible.

Eventually, everything seems so transactional. Even if I feel good helping people and I know others out there must want that feeling too, I become afraid of what someone might be implying they expect me to be able to do for them when they offer the smallest things. I guess maybe even if others around me lean into some subconscious manipulative tactics, even if it's not intentional or malignant on their part, I want to be able to trust myself to see what's going on, to set boundaries and handle them. 

I don't know what I want or what I need. It seems to help sometimes when I can feel that sense of reciprocity with others. I wondered if this might be the same. I don't know what to do right now, but I appreciate the space here to vent. It does seem when I'm alone and have hit another hard place, I take some comfort that this place exists. So thank you to those that keep up this forum. I feel you do more good than you probably realize.

I agree this person may be willing to hear about how and why your CPTSD causes you to push them away when you feel threatened. That is what our symptoms do, they were meant to keep us safe but as we all find once we're out of real danger, they kick in anyway. As you found, it can be a friend getting too close to the truth that triggers us, we panic and it seems we cannot stop ourselves from pushing them away.

If it were me as your friend what would mean the most is a genuine apology and offer to listen to how it made them feel. If nothing else you can rest a bit easier knowing you've done your best to make things right. 

Good luck!

Thank you, Kizzie. We were able to communicate much more positively and respectfully. I genuinely feel like we were both trying to show up well for our selves, and not against one another, if that makes sense. I still have a lot to learn, but I feel I'm heading in a better direction and have more of a sense of direction again.

 

The thing that strikes me on reading your post is to wonder whether you have actually pushed this person away or whether that is trauma talking. Even if you have made them angry or sad and they have stomped off, that does not necessarily mean they are not going to come back when they are in a better frame of mind.

I wish you all the best as you work through this, and I hope things are not as bleak as you currently feel they are.

Hey NarcKiddo,

I think you were very right. It is interesting what a week can do. I feel almost strangely more inside my own body. It's a bit hard to describe, but as I've been reading The Body Keeps the Score, I've read interesting passages about how in order to cope with trauma, sufferers will become pretty effective at distancing themselves from... themselves, manifesting in really curious ways.

Things are indeed not so bleak. Life is imperfect, but it is very worth living. I'm thankful for the experiences I've had and chances to keep on growing. Thank you for your post and I hope you're doing well.

Hello Jim,
I hear and feel your anguish and pain. I'm sorry you are feeling the loss of your best friend.

I'd like to offer a perspective which you may not have considered. My T introduced it to me over a year ago and I was too scared to use it. Since then I have done it, several times with different people and know it can work. The method is called relationship "repair" and it means bringing hurtful things out in the open so the partners can acknowledge there's been a breech of some kind and address it in a conscious way.

When something happens between two people who are close and have invested a lot in each other, "stuff" happens which we regret or cause intense feelings. One way to handle it is to bring it up and out, talk about it and see if there's a way to get past it. That might be your first option, unless you've been told otherwise or there's legal action against you.

I personally find this to be the scariest thing I've ever done. Like anything new, we need to practice it to feel comfortable. It's taken me decades to come to the point of being willing and after doing it maybe 3 times. I feel it's worth passing on here.

The method is to find a time and place which the other is willing to listen or engage. That can be established by asking. "I'd like to talk about _______, is this a good time for you?" Or "would you be willing to talk about our conversation last ____________?" Then depending on the reply you can respect their choices and time the repair when they feel most receptive.

The next step is to state the problem as neutrally as possible. That leaves out blame, shame or guilt. Tell how you were affected and ask for a change, if relevant. If you think of yourself as a guilty party, maybe you could start by saying you've had time to consider how hurtful your comments "MIGHT" be and offer an apology.  Then ask for forgiveness. I'm flying blind here, because I don't know anything.

The other person can either "hear" you or not. If they do, and they want to continue their investment in you, they usually offer an explanation or even apology of sorts of their own. It can be as simple as "it was not my intention." You determine whether it is enough for you.

If this person you describe is your best friend and has stuck with you through a diagnosis, then I think it's reasonable to say, they would realize you were triggered by something and could not reach a point of rationality. It happens. I've had decades of "book learnin" and forum posts and whatnot and still get caught up in overwhelming things now and then. It doesn't stop, it just happens less frequently.

So, the reality that your behavior at any ONE time could sever an important connection is low. It may FEEL like that. Sometimes feelings takes days to subside. I hope you're in a better place. If not, hang on, because you'll get there. If you did lose this trusted ally, it's going to take some grit and determination to make your way through grief. You're going to be OK and you'll find the other side, with yourself intact.

Hello Lakelynn,

Thank you.

I really appreciate all of your words, especially considering how ambiguous I know I tend to be. It's hard to imagine how you might be able to contribute in a situation like that. I do think that the practice of repair is something I need to very intentionally implement more often and with more relationships I really want to maintain and build on. This is great guidance. I get that incredible fear, too, when I can even get to this point.

I had been so sure that we would never speak again and that she was irreparably angry with me. The fact that neither of these might be the case had not even occurred to me until I read your post. It kind of felt like it snapped me out of something. It reminded me of past experiences with her that indicated otherwise.

I still wish I could have handled myself much better, and think it is best to keep a healthy distance between us at least for now. But I was able to have a conversation with her since my post that went really well, and offered some closure to some things that I think we both really needed. I think back to how this built up, and I'm reminded I can't stay complacent with myself. If only I could use my own hypervigilance against myself, so to speak. Maybe, with practice.

Thank you again. Very sincerely. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you helping me through some of the toughest days of my life. I'm sincerely wishing you all the best.

Ok, I'm sorry for replying once and not to everyone yet. I really appreciate that anyone would spend time writing, and I will read and respond as soon as I can. For now, I actually have a support group I'm about to go to.

Thank you to everyone that has written. Very sincerely. I hope that you are doing well and taking care.

Hi Jim,

Oh boy, can I relate and I'm sorry you're going through that right now. Break ups are awful.

I was reading on another forum about dating and someone was trying to discern if they were interested because they had a good chat, but then they seemed to be avoiding eye contact. All the commentators said, move on, she's not interested. I thought, as a fearful avoidant, I recognize how difficult it is to be "pursued," and how, even if I like that person, I would probably have difficulty showing it. It just struck me how different my perspective was from everyone else's, and how lonely I guess it is to be misunderstood like that, or feel that someone isn't on your "side."

I guess a recent "victory" for me is seeing how much of what I view of someone is/was my own projection. I met someone about a year ago and came to the conclusion that this was not a "relationship guy," and I'm pretty sure (was pretty sure) he fancied a lot of young, attractive women at the gym, which of course, is not how I see myself. So, I distanced myself and then a few months ago, it seemed like he was interested, but I was battling all these projections in my mind. A big one was, I think he's attractive and great, why would a guy like that want me? Something must be off. I was really trying to work out if these things were "true" or not. It's sad because it took me a long time to work out that this is my stuff (where and why I learned it and why I'm holding onto it is another matter), but I can see that it's mine and not the "truth," or the truth where I can't trust this person because of it. Is it difficult for someone to deal with this? Probably. Did I screw it up? Also probably, but it feels different this time like I can step back and really take responsibility (?) for it without feeling the shame and self attack so much. Don't get me wrong, it really sucks, but I also don't feel I did anything "wrong" in the way my child mind is imagining. I'm an adult, I can deal with it. I'm not the dependent child that had to worry about the rejection of a caregiver for survival.

I've been reading a book called the Practical Guide to Healing Developmental Trauma and he talks about hope.

"Splitting and identifying with the "bad self" provides hope. If they can get rid of the parts that are seemingly not liked by the caregivers, then they imagine they will be loved. Or if they work really hard to be what their caregivers expect of them, then they will be loved. Internalizing the environmental failure as their failure leads to shame-based identifications that feel protective and maintain hope. It protects the attachment relationship. It preserves the possibility that there is still love in the universe. As painful as it is to feel defective, faulty, and unlovable, it gives a child hope that they maybe can fix themself, and that maybe then they will be loved."

For me, when a relationships doesn't go anywhere, or that "hope" is gone, I'm usually left with the feeling that I'm defective, or there isn't any love in the universe and that's a hard place to be in. I think I've slowly been trying to take things at my own speed, and not trying to "be" the person I feel like I have to be in order to be loved, or what I learned growing up. Did things not work out between me and him? Probably, but I feel a little bit more space for me now. I'm not out of the woods emotionally, and can see myself reacting (probably protest reactions like in the book, or shame attacks to a degree), but I'm hoping that I can recognize them for what they are and try to act accordingly. I also feel like even if I reacted and took the projection to be true, I was able to step back, recognize what I did, apologize, and not stay in a place of blame or anger. Even at myself if I might have screwed it up.

This is long and I think I'm using it to work out some of things I've been going through recently, so please take what you need, if anything, and leave the rest.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hey dolly,

Long time no see.. It's good to hear from you.

I can recall one very specific time that I was told how some people perceived me that really threw me for a loop and made me feel kind of like an alien in how differently I understand the world around me (and myself in it). I also know exactly what you mean about thinking that there must be something wrong with someone interested in me. My brain takes off with that into all kinds of dark, unusual places that, much like yourself it seems, leads me to projecting things onto someone that are not their fault. It sounds like quite a victory though, the progress you are making, and I'm very happy for you. Thank you for sharing it with me, as I found it a great help in stumbling through my own journey right now.

I really appreciate the book excerpt and I will have to look into this one. I'm very much bouncing back and forth between a kind of intense, all-consuming hopelessness and brief reprieves of air that feel a little bit lighter than before.. Thank you for helping me feel seen and not so alone.

Sending you great kindness and support as well.

I finally managed to mess it up for good. I've pushed away the person that helped me to even realize that I have cPTSD, to pinpoint the fearful avoidance, to hear out my point of view when it came to all the triggers. I could see myself and hear myself and I couldn't stop myself. All the books and videos and knowledge in the world couldn't seem to stop me from hurting the one person in the whole world that's never hurt me, that I never wanted to hurt. I don't know how to get to a point I can do what I need to, or stop doing what I need not to, or if it's even possible. I have no one to blame but myself. I don't know exactly what I need but I can't keep staying here. I'll try anything, even if I can never fix things between us, even if we never speak again and they never know how hard I kept trying, if only for their memory. Please, how? What do you do? How do you keep going when you are tired? What helps keep you hopeful? Tell me about a victory you had? Please. Anything.

Beautiful. I would love to see places like this in real life some day. Thank you for sharing

Hi Jim,

Do you have any idea where in the book? I would like to go back and read that as I really struggle with trust/relationship of any kind and at all levels even though my mind knows some people are kind, caring, etc.   

No worries if you don't recall - I will have a look.

After reading Dolly's take on it above, and your request here, I think at least part of what I was referring to is in Chapter 3, page 49 in my copy : Improving relationships. I do think Dolly did a good job of wording it. A good enough relationship can be built through animal and non human relationships. Even a bond with an author can allow both enough distance and connection to be meaningful, lyrics to music, the creative arts. The healing and feeling of connection in nature.

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, and I wish you the best.

Having what might appear to be unreasonable expectations may not be helpful, especially if such expectations push a person into further trauma or shame. But I think a sense of openness and curiosity can and should remain. There are many stories of people confounding predictions along the lines of "he''ll never walk/talk/xyz again" or "she will only live for 6 months at most". I also think that acceptance and kindness about where you are at is helpful. Acceptance, to my mind, does not mean you accept you will never be different. I think it means you accept yourself for what you are now and celebrate what you have achieved so far. It may mean you decide not to set a specific goal. If you say "OK, I don't trust people and I don't expect I ever shall but I might do one day" then you remain open to the possibility. You can take any opportunities that come your way without fear of failure and you cannot beat yourself up about not making progress towards a particular goal because that goal does not exist as a specific. Just my personal view for what it's worth.

For myself, I am wary of trusting people - even my husband. I've started opening up to people a little more since I started therapy, but only in tiny steps, and choosing situations where if it does not work out too well I know I will not be drastically upset or hurt. So opening up to FOO is out of the question and telling anyone anything very personal is something I consider very carefully. But initiating some idle chit chat with the women in the gym locker room instead of just hurrying to get dressed and leave is OK. It is generally fine, and pleasant, and if by chance someone is having a bad day and does not want to engage then I can deal with that and not take it personally. I actually like casual social interaction. Maybe it will lead to closer bonds in time and maybe it won't.

Curiosity. I like that, very much. It's been a driving, positive force as of late and I don't want to loose that.. I also like what you're saying about remaining open to possibilities in a way that allows acceptance of where I am.. I think something like that has been the most peaceful resolution I've found. In a way, maybe it won't get better, but I'm not going to find out unless I get up and dust off. So, might as well.

I keep thinking I should try to get out more. Find hobbies that include some interactions like this. I considered a gym or volunteering somewhere. Again, I should sit and contemplate these options more.. Someone said I should try something like that where I'm passing by sometimes the same people, rather than one-off events where it'd be kind of hard to establish a more meaningful connection so quickly.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Hi Jim,

I'm wondering if you've perhaps misremembered the Pete Walker quote? Sometimes our trauma brains reinterpret information in a way that confirms our worst fears/ideas about things, and isn't necessarily the truth.

What I remember from the book about good enough relationships is that we'll never have the ideal relationship we're expecting/wanting to heal our childhood wounds etc. I think it's along the same lines of a partner can't meet all your emotional needs and you need to find ways to meet them yourself.

It's been ages since I read the book, and went back to have a look. There's a part where he mentions that some people's abuse was so extreme that it is unreasonable to expect them to trust people again, but a good enough relationship can be built through animal/non-human relationships. Maybe this is what you're referring to?

Sending you support,
dolly

Thank you. Maybe you're right. I certainly like the way your take reads better. I'd been reflecting on that piece lately. Animals and nature. Sounds maybe more my speed for the time being. I keep thinking about getting a cat. I used to love animals. It's just a lot of responsibility. I spend a lot of time worrying about something going wrong that I can't fix. Maybe I should consider it more seriously. If I look at how I could fix things if they go wrong and the likelihood of things going wrong, typically I find things aren't as scary as I exasperate them out to be.

Thank you, Dolly. 

Jim,

I just reread your whole thread. In one of your earlier postings you talked about how you ponder whether you are like your abusers. That is a very powerful sign that you are NOT like them. Abusers never check in with themselves. They never wonder if they are misbehaving. Only people of conscience and care stop and review their own lives to be sure they aren't becoming the abusers. The fact that you worry about being abusive to others makes me like (and trust) you so much more than I already did.

Jim, I really do like our interactions. You seem like a very, extra caring person and I'm glad we got to meet virtually on this forum. I spent most of my pre-diagnosis life believing I was the only person on earth who was anything like me. I used to fantasize stories where I drifted off to sea and landed on an uncharted island where, to my great joy, I met an entire tribe of people who were just like me. I totally believed it was fantasy, but since joining this forum, I'm meeting people who are so much like me that we understand and care for each other in ways no other group I've ever been a part of ever cared for each other.

You are someone I would have hoped to meet on that uncharted island.

Take care my friend.
Jim

I'm not gonna lie to you man, this one is really hitting me in the gut. I have always felt very alone, too. Especially right now, the thought of someone picking me, looking forward to meeting me, is something really meaningful. I'm very glad for your interactions here, too. I've been going to so many groups and therapy, and no one gets it like y'all do. You're a rare breed, and I am immensely grateful you're here. More than you'll ever know. Thank you.

Hi Jim,

I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out. As a fellow FA, I know the ups and downs of dating can hit pretty rough. I'm going through something now and it's not easy. Even with my t I feel like she gets exasperated, or I can feel the why would you react that way, silently emanating. In my rational brain I know it too, but the emotional brain is a different story. Going through and unpacking all the emotions around it is also not easy to face. I'm trying to work through the shame coming up, but it's all those things that no one really wants to feel. In the end I usually resolve that it's just much better/easier to stay on my own, but I'm trying to get past that. It's the battle I guess.

Sending you support,
dolly

Thank you, Dolly. Yeah, those ups and downs are incredibly intense.. It's hard to keep up. I really gave it every thing I had. I gave it more than I knew I had. I can see I still have so much work to do, but I was really feeling progress. She said she is seeing and working on some of her own demons, and that she can see now how difficult and exhausting this work is. That was incredibly validating to hear. I was very grateful for that.

At the same time, it's so frustrating and I feel like there's no one and nothing to really be frustrated about. I'm not mad at her, I want her to do what is best for her and find happiness. I go through my ups and downs with this, but I think I'm finally getting past being mad at me, too. As aggravating as it is knowing what is going on and still having to wade through it like sludge to find some reprieve, I can no longer fool myself out of how bad the past was or how hard I am trying to be a better person.. Sometimes I get mad at the people who've hurt me and let me down, but even that feels pointless. Sometimes I'm just upset with nothing to be mad about..

I do think this experience has shown me that I actually do want people in my life, which is a step toward the truth at least. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that a life with anyone else will ever happen whether I want it or not. I feel like at this point in my life it's a bit late to find someone that is willing to work through these things. Not that there isn't time to build relationships, but most folks my age are feeling a clock ticking. If they feel like there's a chance to be with someone, they would rather take that than stay with me long enough to find a way out of this. And for me, I just can't see myself trusting anyone enough to work through all this stuff long enough or fast enough to make meaningful progress toward that kind of end. I can read and watch videos, but until I go through real experience with it again and again, I don't think I can make the kind of progress I'd like. The age old feeling of being in the way and not wanting to drag anyone else down with me is overwhelming.

If it's possible to find peace and resolve with it and still find some kind of happiness and fulfillment, I'm determined to. It's just a lot of grieving over the parts that are said and done and I cannot work to change. Over 30 years worth and counting.

I know the guilt and shame you mean too well. It helps me very much to think that this is a past version of me trying desperately to help me the only way I knew how. Doing the best with what I could at the time.  The best way to honor and respect and thank that version of yourself is to keep carving a better path now that you have a little more to work with. One notch at a time. I really wish you the best, Dolly. It's painstaking, but it is worth it. For all the grief, the good times were well worth it in the end, no matter what else...

i remember at some point in Pete Walker's CPTSD from surviving to thriving book that he wrote some people will never be able to trust others and build meaningful relationships, and that has to be ok. i don't know. there for awhile i really thought maybe i could try. i'm starting to think maybe i should just accept where i am and make better peace with it.

i was curious if anyone here has felt they've fallen into this category. how do you make peace with it? what still brings you joy and a sense of satisfaction and fulfillment, enough to keep going and find meaning?