Messages

Thank you Papa Coco for your addition.

I've been in a bit of a self-deprecation spiral and sometimes when that happens I try to write it out, and then this voice of powerful kindness and compassion comes out on the page to set me straight...   Anyway, here's a couple of excerpts that might be helpful to others as well.

"I wish your heart knew the peace you are trying to create for the world."
"It's not a waste of time to take care of yourself even if you don't feel better right away."
"You are worth the effort it takes to ease the pain."/"You are worth the effort it's going to take to heal."

Hi Blueberry,

I'm sorry you're feeling like this. It sucks to want to hurt yourself all the time. We know. It happens a fair bit.

I hope things get better for you,

All the best,
Sadie 






[PS: This is on behalf of one of my parts, who offered to write the message when I couldn't put the words together. I don't know if I should be representing myself as different people in a public capacity, but I couldn't bring myself to appropriate their words as though I had written them, and what they came up with was more heartfelt than what I had come up with. I hope it expresses the sentiment that even though our specific struggles are different, I (we?) resonate with the sense of struggling to function and wanting to hurt yourself over it. (I also wanted to clarify that I'm not hurting myself often, just getting frequent urges).

All the best from OwnSide also.]

I wasn't quite sure where to put this, but I thought it would be helpful to have a resource of validating/compassionate/empathetic statements for times when you want support but don't feel like you can reach out. What have you heard, said (to yourself or others), or wanted someone to say to you when you were having a difficult time?

I've added some to start. Most of them are excerpts from journal entries, so they might be context-specific in a way I might not recognize. If something does not apply to you or feel right then please disregard. I also want to give credit to the parts of me that helped facilitate these conversations.


General:

"What can I do to help you in this moment?"

"That must be so hard to carry all of that all by yourself."

"I don't know what I could say that would capture what you must be feeling right now."

"It must be so hard to try to make sense of the pain."


For guilt/shame:

"Something deep inside you is hurting. You can't always do the things you want when you're hurting."

"Feeling like something is wrong with you is how your brain makes sense of the pain you are in and the things that you've been through. It's no more complicated than that. It is an injured conclusion born of an injuring situation."


For self-doubt:

"Please let yourself accept help from your own mind. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. You don't have to be 'right'."

"Trying to tell yourself that you do not feel what you feel, think what you think, hear what you hear, and see what you see is making your spirit sick. You can know that you feel it because you keep trying to tell yourself you don't. People rarely have to tell themselves not to feel things that they're already not feeling."

"No-one else was in that body, at that time, at that place, feeling what I was feeling. No-one else will ever know, so I can't pretend that they do. I just have to trust myself."


I invite people to add their own helpful phrases.

The autism/complex trauma conundrum is a powerful interest of mine. Here's my take, as someone who is not diagnosed but currently gathering information in preparation for an assessment.

Consider that autism, as it is defined in the DSM-V/ICD-11 is symptom-based. It doesn't necessarily account for what causes those symptoms. Early life traumatic experiences could very well contribute to difficulties with social communication and relationships, sensory sensitivities, stimming, and need for sameness. Conversely, if you're someone that just naturally finds social communication more difficult than other people and has some quirks like sensory sensitivities, stimming, and need for sameness, you might find more of your day-to-day life experiences to be overwhelming and/or traumatic.

I've seen commentary on social media about how the diagnostic criteria for autism is based around autistic distress and does not describe what it would look like for an autistic person to thrive. I would suspect that diagnosable autism requires trauma by default because a diagnosis states that someone has a "disorder" that causes difficulty functioning. A person with autistic traits who has grown up in a supportive environment that has not traumatized them might not meet that criteria. Alternatively, an autistic person with complex trauma might cover their distress and difficulty functioning with a fawn response that makes their autistic traits more difficult for others to detect.

It can be a bit of a chicken and egg question where the outcome may not be an answer per se, but more of an identity formation/self-discovery process like rainydiary is describing. Coming to terms with autism and C-PTSD both involve reconciling with the past, learning to accept and support your limitations, and recognizing your strengths to build a sustainable future. The difference maker for me has been asking myself, "Where do I belong?" Do I belong with complex trauma survivors? Do I belong with autistic people? Do I feel like these are "my people"? Who in my community helps me feel understood and safe to be myself? Where can I find more of these people? These are questions I'm still working on, but working on them gives me some hope of being accepted (and accepting myself) without having to be defined.

It worked!    Thank you!

Hi. I am having a similar issue.

When I log in I can't see the sub-boards under symptoms, some of the sub-boards under comorbidities, or the board for new member introductions.

I have tried using Firefox and Microsoft Edge, and I have tried clearing my browser history. I also tried logging in from a post under one of those sub-boards (which I could see when logged out) and it gave me an error message saying the board was off limits to me (see attachment).

Thank you! 

So I have been processing this for a while but I am wondering what thoughts the community has.

You may be familiar with Internal Family Systems, which stipulates that everyone has parts (https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-ifs-therapy-internal-family-systems-therapy-5195336). There is also the structural theory of dissociation, which proposes that there are different degrees of dissociation among parts of the personality depending on the timing, nature, and number of traumas and maps different diagnoses onto these levels (https://did-research.org/origin/structural_dissociation/). For example, PTSD is a form of primary structural dissociation (i.e. one apparently normal part and one emotional part), C-PTSD, BPD, and OSDD are forms of secondary structural dissociation (i.e. one apparently normal part and several emotional parts), and DID is tertiary structural dissociation (i.e. multiple apparently normal parts and emotional parts).

Okay, great. Being a multi-faceted human being is normal. If you have trauma, you might have some dissociative barriers between you and your parts. And, at least looking from the outside, the criteria for DID seem rather unambiguous -- you have multiple parts and they front and you have amnesia about it (https://icd.who.int/browse/2024-01/mms/en#1829103493). (I also validate that realizing it from the inside is extremely complicated -- but since I don't have it I can easily see I don't have it). But how do you know if your "parts" are C-PTSD related or if you have OSDD/PDID as well?

The ICD-11 tries to clear this up, and I'm wondering if this resonates with those who have C-PTSD with or without OSDD/PDID. This is from the section on Partial Dissociative Identity Disorder (which is comparable to OSDD in the DSM-V):

"Boundary with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: Partial Dissociative Identity Disorder involves pervasive alterations in identity and sense of agency. In Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, such alterations can occur but are limited to episodes of re-experiencing traumatic events (e.g., during flashbacks). If symptoms consistent with dissociative intrusions occur exclusively during such episodes in the context of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder or Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, an additional diagnosis of Partial Dissociative Identity Disorder is not warranted." (https://icd.who.int/browse/2024-01/mms/en#988400777)

So I have "intrusions" but I hear/see/feel them on a daily basis, not just during flashbacks. They have their own thoughts and feelings and ways of seeing the world and themselves. They have begun asking me to "treat us like real people". It's getting very difficult to deny because now when I try they are very quick to remind me that "we're here and we're real". Of course sometimes I still deny it. At first I didn't think there was switching but now I'm becoming aware of subtle shifts in how I speak and hold my body and sometimes when I see a trigger coming it's like "the space inside my head changes" and then I have a completely different attitude about it.

I have a friend with DID who has given me information and support as I explore this part of my experience. It's been extremely helpful, but I still have trouble rationalizing that I could have gone through something significant enough to warrant the C-PTSD/OSDD symptoms I seem to be experiencing. Even now, whichever version of me I am is more connected to the feelings and thus, believes that the feelings are real and is willing to speculate that something might have happened that I/we don't remember. But then, later, I will be very not connected to the feelings and then it's all, well, I have no good reasons to feel this way and if I just tried harder I would be okay...

I've been exploring this for over a year and so at this point I can more readily say this is an enduring phenomenon and not just "mood swings".

I'm wondering if this resonates with anyone else's experience, and, if so, where you fall in this continuum of dissociation. What do "parts" look like for you? Are they self-aware? Do they want to be seen? Can you converse with them? What do they do? Do they feel like "real people"?

I haven't seen a thread about this anywhere else so I thought I would start one -- but if it already exists please refer me 


Abbreviation key:
BPD = Borderline personality disorder
DID = Dissociative identity disorder
DSM-V = Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5th revision
ICD-11 = International classification of diseases 11th revision
OSDD = Other specified dissociative disorder
PDID = Partial dissociative identity disorder

Hi Kizzie,

I would also like to join the private journal section, I am a private person lol. Thank you.

Hi Blueteddy,

My situation is very different than yours but hits on similar points. Feeling trapped in an unsustainable life, wondering how much longer you can go on, parts (I'm not sure what to call mine at this point but I definitely hear things) trying to help but can't. In my case I have a precocious six-year-old internal person (assuming I'm correct in my perceptions) who's a whiz at self-care and sometimes has to do things like prompt me to eat or distract me when I want to SH. But I'm trying not to lean on her that way because she has expressed to me that she wants to be able to be a kid.

It's hard when you and your alters are arguing. Especially when you are all trying to survive in your own ways but it conflicts. It sounds like you care about each other. May I say even surviving for each other? I try never to say I "understand" but your story knocked me to the floor because of how the themes resonated.

I'm sorry you're being treated badly and I hope you guys find a way to get through it. 

Hi.

I don't have plans or anything, they're just thoughts. And at this point I can kind of tell the difference between, Oh, that was just a random intrusive thought, shoo fly, no biggie, versus, Oh, hang on, I think I'm starting to perseverate on this. Oh hang on, I think I'm starting to seek relief by thinking about these things. That's not good, is it.

Anyway, I was looking at what kinds of thoughts made those feelings worse, and I came across a couple of themes. One was when I invalidate myself, (saying I'm not feeling what I think I'm feeling, or it's not as bad as I think, or other people go through worse, or it has to get worse before other people would care), and another was when I start forecasting an imaginary future in which I just continue on as I am, not talking about these things, not getting close to people because it's "safer". My brain just sort of goes, "How much longer do you think you can go on like this?" And I'm just like, "I don't know."

I know I need to stay alive for my cat and my sister, and I also know that the problems I want to escape wouldn't be "solved" by my leaving, I would just be relieving myself of having to deal with them. As much as I feel ineffectual about my circumstances, I know staying is the best outcome for everybody. It at least presents the possibility that I will figure out what I am trying to figure out and become who I am trying to be. I wonder if maybe I am putting too much pressure on myself. But then, I am in this place now where I understand that certain things about my upbringing have caused problems for me, but I don't understand it well enough to be able to explain it properly. So it's hard to articulate why I'm concerned about how my family is raising my little sister when everything I'm seeing would be considered by others as normal and unproblematic. I'm torn between feeling responsible for her and fighting with myself about my perceptions. The longer this goes on, the more I worry about the time I'm losing and whether I'll ever be strong enough to speak up.

So I guess I'm writing this to prove to myself that I can take steps, and it won't always be the same. I know these feelings are temporary, but I get a little existential about how they recurr, and what is the truth then? Am I just perpetually distracting myself from the abyss?

I suppose I am looking for a little bit of compassion as well because I want to give it to myself but I am worried about the emotions that would unlock and so I am sort of stuck and continuing to use denial as a form of emotional regulation, to some extent. But no need to feel obliged. Only if you find it helpful to respond or are in an okay place mentally for doing so.

I've read over this a few times and I think I have explained things accurately. I hope so. I hope I don't regret sharing all this either, lol. It's been in my head for a while.

Okay seriously I'm done now, thank you for listening 

I'm laughing at myself now because I remember how hard I worked to intellectualize that post so it wouldn't have any embarrassing feely bits in it, and now I'm still cringing at it because it doesn't even read like a real person? 

Anyhow.

Um sorry, did I just read that right? Are you suggesting that you are some kind of "fake"? For being on this forum?
And leading us on to boot?

  

I think the argument I was trying to make was that I lack some sort of arbitrary reference level that would allow me to contextualize my experience within The Grand Scheme of Things People Go Through and therefore accurately report on myself. Because if I could achieve that, I would have an objective account of my subjective experience that no-one could argue with or invalidate. Right?

Ahhhh...

Anyway, thank you for validating, Chart. It helps. And it's encouraging to hear that you are trying to heal for your kids! Wishing you luck there

I have a lot of memories that I would once have labelled as happy and loving - to the point that I would have become aggressively defensive if someone had suggested the situations might not have been as happy and loving as I supposed. I am not suggesting that people with trauma can't have happy memories. But in my experience, the happy times I remember were by and large as a result of my having moulded myself to what was required of me so that my mother would be Nice Mother instead of all the other far more unpalatable versions of her. My efforts did not always work, but when they did, and I got Nice Mother, those times were very precious to me and I redoubled my efforts to keep Nice Mother around.

Interesting... I think I recognize some facets of my situation in what you've written here. I'm having a hard time explaining it in a way I'm comfortable posting (like everything else), but I appreciate the information. It would perhaps explain the dichotomy in my memories.


Thanks everyone for the support, I look back on it many times   

Hi.

There were some great conversations in this thread and I'm really sorry for deleting it.

I've come to feel that some of the details that I wrote about my situation were potentially identifiable/specific to me. Theoretically nothing bad would happen if people in my life were to figure out that this account belonged to me and read some of my posts, but I'd much rather be in control of when and how such conversations are approached.

For a while I didn't want to edit any of my posts because I felt like I'd be gaslighting people (the words were there, now they're not, were they ever to begin with?). But leaving my posts as they were seemed to be hindering my ability to share on the forum (i.e. I had shared too much already, how could I dig deeper into my feelings when someone might find them?). I contemplated just deleting my own posts, but the information I was looking to remove was also threaded through others' responses. I also considered putting up a transcript of just the parts I was comfortable leaving, so people could still access what they had written, but then I would be taking away peoples' ability to modify their own content.

So instead, I have saved a copy of the transcript for myself to remember your lovely supportive words (please let me know if this is not allowed – I checked the member guidelines). If there is something you wrote that you want access to, please message me and I can pass it along.

I can see that this thread had a lot of views and I hope to start something equally useful in the future.

All the best,
OwnSide

Thank you both for the validation.

NarcKiddo, you raise an interesting point about neurodivergence being conflated with trauma. Having read many first-hand accounts and some diagnostic criteria related to neurodivergence (mostly autism, but also ADHD), the core topics seem to overlap heavily with C-PTSD. For example, "deficits in social communication" vs. "interpersonal hardship"; "sensory issues" vs. "hyper/hypo-arousal"; "restricted/repetitive behaviours vs. "avoidance" and "re-experiencing"; and "rejection sensitive dysphoria" vs. "negative self-concept". I have also read some speculation that "diagnosable" neurodivergence is, by definition, a by-product of trauma; people with neurodivergent traits cannot be diagnosed unless they experience clinically significant impairments. So my conceptualization at this point is that everyone has their own individual realm of tolerance, beyond which they become traumatized, and people identifying as neurodivergent tend to have more reactive and sensitive brains that facilitate trauma responses. But then, could such a brain not be forged by early life trauma?

The fact that the memories you hold would be regarded as traumatic by others but not yourself means nothing more than you have dissociated them.

I should clarify: No-one else is identifying my memories as traumatic. It is more that I go back and forth on whether I  think something was traumatic based on how emotionally connected I feel to that moment. I simultaneously remember and forget events such that there really isn't much of a story to tell -- it's more like, oh, someone said something to me and I can't remember exactly what it was or why they said it, but sometimes I can revisit that moment and identify dysregulated emotions in hindsight. But also other times I try to visit that exact same moment it feels distant and inconsequential.

I can rationalize that trauma memories do operate like this. You might have seen some other posts of mine where I really express feelings, and then others (like the post above) are rather impersonal. Hence, I am left to wonder what is "the truth". But there isn't just one. I have literally countless happy and loving memories which I am very lucky to have, but I also get into states where those same memories feel like confinement, and I end up seeking comfort in remembering times I was alone or autonomous. I know that I was loved and that the person who raised me did her best, and at the same time she had to raise me by herself from a young age with her own unresolved trauma on board which is a very stacked set of circumstances. So even logic humbly suggests that something might have been missed.

Still, it's strange that I would find myself here. It's strange that I would insert myself into this space and wax poetic about myself to people who (if I may use your exemplary quote, Slashy) "have been through every kind of child abuse you can imagine". I am grateful for the acceptance I have received thus far but wonder if it comes as a direct result of misleading people about the nature/magnitude of my circumstances simply by being here. If I could articulate things accurately, would I still receive empathy? And how do I accomplish such an endeavour without implicitly self-deprecating and validation-seeking to a community who has more than enough of their own healing to do? 

Anyhow, I've been looking for something to ease the intrusive thoughts so they don't start manifesting with intent, and part of me remembers the little relief cries that used to happen when reading these forums, so I thought coming back might be helpful.

Thank you for your input, and I hope to return the favour at some point