Out of the Storm

Well, I said I would start a recovery journal,  so best to get on with it, or knowing me, I will talk myself out of it if I give myself time.

Am going to a GP later at the suggestion of my EMDR therapist.  To be honest, I am not sure if there is much point.  I am sure my pain is cptsd related.  It would be good to have a definite diagnosis or opinion,  though. I will also ask again about the purpose of the duloxetine I take. He didn't prescribe it originally so it would be interesting to see if he thinks it is worthwhile for me despite the side effects.

Anxiety about this appointment building already so better take my doggy for a walk.  That usually helps.

Hi Libby,
Great that you've started your Recovery Journal - and I hope you'll find it helpful.  I hope your GP appointment went ok today.  I hope you enjoyed your walk with your doggy.  I also find that walking helps. 
:hug: to you Libby.
Hope  :)

Hope,  thank you so much for my first comment in my journal.  It means a lot to me.


The GP appointment was pretty much as I expected.  He didn't really have anything to offer,  other than an increased dose of duloxetine. Still wondering if that is a good idea or not. He also said I could have a blood test,  but I don't think I will.  It just seemed like something to fob me off with.

I was,however, reading a leaflet in the waiting room about online GP services and it mentioned access to your medical records. I think I will look into that because I have this strong need to understand what,  deep down,  is wrong with me. Doctors never really give much away in my experience,  but I may find something useful there.  I think it's all about control. I was so utterly controlled by my parents that I feel scared of any situation where I am vulnerable.

This seems to lead on to my therapists suggestion that I search for memories where I felt weak.  That's really hard because my whole relationship with my parents was about my weakness and their strength.  For both of them, that was the right and proper way. After all, parents are in charge.  Added to that was my mother's need for me to be weak so that she could feel she was strong. I had to be sad so that she could believe she was happy.  I had to be fat so that she could be thin and so on and so on. So did I feel weak?  I don't know. But I did feel powerless and helpless. Above all, I was powerless to be myself.  Perhaps these are the memories I could look for.  I really feel that I never got to find out who or what I really was. And I still have such strong doubts.

An absolute requirement of the therapy,  I am told, is to switch off my intellectual brain and allow my emotional brain to take the lead.  I am having real problems with this. It has led me to realise just how truly limited my emotions are.   In emdr sessions,  I can picture traumatic scenes from childhood,  but there aren't really any emotions attached that I am aware of. Should I be aware? Not sure. Is that why the treatment is not being fully effective?  Don't know.  Am I beyond help? That's what worries me.

Anyway,  I am committed to carrying on with the therapy.  Perhaps these are normal hurdles to overcome.

Sanmagic has written a fascinating reply in my emdr thread. There is so much information and advice there,  and I am going to re-read it a few times.

hey, libby,

glad for you starting this journal.  it usually helps me to write about stuff, if only to get it out of me.  often i've found clarity and realizations as i write, too, and feedback and support has been tremendously important to me as well.

also glad you found some of what i wrote helpful for your therapy.  any questions, feel free to pm me.

i'm one who has had a hard time with emotions, and eventually discovered (thru this forum, actually) that i have alexithymia.  it's a condition where the brain connections between emotions and being able to verbalize/realize/recognize them are faulty.  i took an online diagnostic, the TAS-20 (toronto alexithymic scale - here's a link if you're so inclined   http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9CitJfORafYAAqxtXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTExdXU4OGx2BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDREZENl8xBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1524952266/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.alexithymia.us%2ftest-alex.html/RK=2/RS=SXkjU01N4re0eg5A3jthhU1BaNg-) that assured me my emotions have been missing from my conscious ability to access them.

don't know if that fits for you, but what you wrote about not knowing how you feel/felt about what went on in your life sounded so very familiar to me.   when i thought back to previous therapy sessions, i struggled mightily with coming up with feelings/emotions about what was happening or had happened.  i still struggle, but it's gotten better from working on it, re-wiring my brain a bit.

when emotions are difficult to access, the t needs to know about that and find another way to help you thru the therapeutic process.  your t could even find the TAS and give it to you during a session.  that way they can better understand what's happening with you, why it's difficult for you emotionally (if, in fact, you are alexithymic).

the other possibility is that your emotions have been frozen or numbed to a point where you just can't easily get at them.  again, your t could help you if they're willing to be open to this.  however, just insisting that you rely on the emotional side of your brain can be unrealistic if it's not readily available.  you can tell them that you need help with this.  to my mind, the t needs to step up when their client is struggling.

i hope you find some success with your t.  i've been a therapist, emdr-trained, for 25 yrs. and never knew about complex trauma or alexithymia until i researched it for myself just in the past 3 yrs.  this stuff is not widely known, c-ptsd isn't formally recognized in the therapist's diagnostic manual,  and it's rarely talked about.  i belong to an emdr support forum for therapists, and have brought this stuff up to them.  most of them had no idea.

once again, in the helping professions, med. or otherwise, we must advocate for ourselves.  i've had all the tests, too, including an mri on my brain, and it's all shown nothing of note.  i'm sure my chronic pain is c-ptsd related as well.  we're all in the same boat, libby, and together we'll get thru this.  love and hugs to you.

Thank you Sanmagic. I definitely think you may have hit upon something with the idea of alexithymia.  I did the test (thanks for the link) and came out as high in the trait. Also I read around the subject and felt that it really made sense to me. The nature / nurture aspect of its "cause" fitted, because my nm had no emotions at all, other than anger. She literally had no words for emotions.  "Quite nice" was the only positive thing she would say occasionally. 

What really struck me,  however,  was the link to autism.  I have an autistic son and always felt that there was an overlap between cptsd and autism. After all, in the past,  I think that autism was blamed on cold, distant mothers.  I often wondered if, as a child, I had autistic traits,  but perhaps it was the first signs of alexithymia?  My son had very violent tantrums when younger, but I was very understanding of this and now he is an adult,  he is very calm and generally works on understanding other peoples thoughts and emotions.

I am definitely going to discuss all of this with my therapist.  Especially how it seems to be linked with pain from undischarged emotions.  Perhaps this will lead to a new approach.  Certainly worth a try and I will read some more about the subject.  It's fascinating.  Many thanks.


I had a lovely day yesterday,  visiting my dd and her boyfriend,  with dh and my dog.  I realise that the only time I was in any pain was when we were stuck in an unexplained traffic jam.  It stuck me that,  although the pain was there and is affected by driving, it was really the cars and people all around,  and my irritation and anger at them for being "in my way" that was the issue. Perhaps it is because I can't really feel emotions, in this case, anger and feel guilty about expressing it, that I distract myself by focusing on pain instead.  It's not something I had considered before, and may not be valid at all. But the pain was gone as soon as we got to my daughter.  Emotion turned inwards and felt as pain seems logical.

Thinking about it,  it was very much the case with nm that if I did something genuinely stupid, like losing money or reversing the car into a post, she was not angry with me. I think that if I beat myself up enough, she didn't need to
It was minor infringements, silly things that made her so angry. I suppose being young that I thought they were minor, so wasn't sorry enough.  Then I had to be punished. Then over time I accepted more things about myself as bad and proceeded to mentally beat myself up.  Is this the inner critic maybe.  Again,  it could link in with the pain.

The concept of alexithymia could also explain my hatred of community type events.  I thought it was just that nm loved this sort of thing and always made us attend.  But it really could be that I just couldn't appreciate that shared sense of celebration or whatever.  I didn't feel it as a child, and I don't feel it now.  It sounds really bad, makes me feel not fully human, hence my avoidance. 

Finally,  I need to come up with memories where I felt weak or powerless. That is hard. That was my whole childhood,  but how much did I really feel it and can I attach it to specific memories?  I shall give it a try, anyway.

I really don't expect anyone to read through all of my waffle, but it is good to get it down in words. I am starting to experience the value of journalling.

can't really comment today, libby, but i'm glad you found the link helpful.  love and hugs.

Thank you so much for all of your support. I'll let you know how the next emdr session goes.

Hugs, Libby.

 :hug: to you Libby. 
Hope  :)

one thing i wanted to say, libby, is that you either may not have specific memories that pinpoint times when you felt weak/powerless (like you were saying, there was so much, it was subtle and pervasive, and it all ran together -but, that thought of the 'look' from your mother could be a memory or at least a target for the emdr process) or you may not be ready to bring up any such memories at this time.  i think that needs to be respected, too.  sometimes trying to grasp a memory that is too painful can be overwhelming, and retraumatizing, so please be careful.

hope your next session goes well, especially with your newfound information.  i'm interested especially to hear what your t thinks about the alexithymia.  might be interesting.  remember, always, this is your process, your recovery, and your pace.  love and hugs to you libby.

Thank you both for your best wishes. It's so good to have people who care and are genuinely interested!

With regard to the whole question of emotions,  I seem to have had something of a breakthrough.  I have felt so emotionless for so long, I had come to think I really had no emotions or just negative ones!

As a result,  and because I have never been convinced of the value of duloxetine/cymbalta,  I decided to stop taking it.

I seem to be doing well. I knew what to expect,  and despite the withdrawal symptoms in my head,  I actually feel quite positive.

In my last therapy session,  we dealt with memories around my mother and sister. This was a big issue for me because I was the scapegoat and my sister was the golden child. We went back to a situation when I was not much over two years old and it was said that I tried to "get rid" of my sister because I was so very jealous of her. Even before the emdr I was feeling quite emotional and I actually cried real tears.  It must be decades since I cried. I definitely think I have finally found some emotions!

So despite the brain zaps etc which are not pleasant at all, I feel that I am on the right track again.  I even did a small diy project that I had been putting off for ages.

My "homework" from therapy is to start rewriting my story,  as the therapist puts it. Instead of acting like a controlled child, I have to act as an individual adult.  I would have responded badly to this suggestion a while ago, but I can accept myself better now.

Despite its ups and downs, I think therapy has made me trust my belief that my parents damaged me very,  very badly,  so that I can move on a little.  I think you are right San,  now I need to finally deal with the all-pervading image of my horrific mother.  Perhaps then I can finally let go of feeling that I was sacrificed to make her feel better and that she was able to walk away,  safe in her belief that she was the most perfect mother who ever walked this earth. Can this ever be resolved,  I wonder.

Hi Libby,
I am glad you're experiencing 'something of a breakthrough' - that is so great to hear.  I related to many of the things you wrote here - which I realise is because we do share experiences of a difficult mother and also a relationship with a sister - I wish you strength in working through these things - you're doing really well -  :hug: to you Libby.
Hope  :)

yes, i do believe it can be resolved with work, determination, patience (especially with yourself) and time.  take the time you need, break it into small pieces that are manageable, and you'll see progress.  i'm really happy for you that you were able to finally cry.  it took me a long time, too.  now, i cry all the time!  but i'm getting to profitable crying at last - cleansing tears, tears with a purpose.  that's feeling pretty good, even if it's painful for a bit.

i think you're doing great, libby.  love and hugs to you.

Hey Libby, I'm so pleased things are working out so well. It was only when I started doing emdr that I found my buried emotions and was able to cry, since then I can cry a lot easier too. I am also considering coming off my medication have been on it for 15 years and feel quite numb whilst I'm on it, I really want to deal with all the help I'm getting by being the real me and not the medicated me so may look at doing this as well. Really pleased for you tho.

Thank you,  San magic. You are spot on, as ever.  I can see now that you have pointed it out,  that dealing with the memory around my sister,  was part of the bigger picture of the whole issue with my mother.  Dealing with the memory through emdr and actually crying,  does seem to have started to lift a weight,  and I do feel more "present". 

I think that stopping the duloxetine has played a part. Like you,  eyesofblue, I must have been on antidepressants of one sort or another for nearly twenty years.  Whilst coping with my special needs twins and my disordered mother,  it was probably the right thing just to go with it . But I was never sure if they really helped,  probably because I didn't feel much of anything except anger. I certainly didn't feel "better", whatever that was!

Despite the brain zaps etc, I am definitely more comfortable with myself,  doing things my way.  I know it is absolutely not recommended,  but so far I have coped much better than the two times I tried to slowly cut the dose.  I gather that this drug has a very short half-life so I think this means that withdrawal symptoms take hold quickly.

I have just had home made fruit crumble and custard for breakfast!  Nm would be absolutely disgusted but I did it because I wanted to.  Next step is to do it without even considering her views. Perhaps as I deal with memories of her through emdr, I will be able to let go at last.

fruit crumble and custard for breakfast sounds spectacularly amazing!  made my mouth water just thinking about it.  i love having out-of-the-box types of breakfasts.  if i eat particularly what i want for breakfast, it starts my day in the best way.

nM's got nothin' on you and what you eat when. 

i'm so glad that your tears have helped lift a weight.  those are the cleansing tears, washing away the poison and toxins from our system.  that stuff is heavy, indeed.

keep going, libby.  i think you're doing swell.   love and hugs to you, sweetie.

 :applause: It must be amazing to be able to feel more alive then. Emotions coming out are deeply healing, and while tears are often seen as something bad, it's a cause for deep relief. Finally. Finally.

Thank you,  Decimal Rocket.  You are right. I do feel more alive.  I have realised that since my last emdr session,  I have been much more present in my life.  It took me a while to pinpoint it, because it was so new.  I achieved quite a lot of practical things, but instead of pushing myself to get them done, so that I could move on to.... something else that needed doing,  I was absorbed in the current task,  without being overwhelmed about the next and the next. I got things done, without being so drained.  And this was inspite of variable pains and the brain zaps from drug withdrawal.

It's my next therapy session tomorrow and I really want to come up with a memory that encompasses the abandonment,  combined with the push /pull nature of my relationship with my mother.  There must be one that fits with the emdr protocol.  That's my task for today.

Best wishes to you all. Your support means the world. It really does.

good luck on your task for today, libby.  i hope you find one that fits all the criteria.  very glad to hear you're feeling more alive.  that's absolutely fabulous.  love and hugs.

Good luck Libby, slounds like you're making really good progress. I'm really pleased for you. Let us know how you get on tomorrow.

Quote from: Libby183 on May 07, 2018, 08:34:55 AM
I do feel more alive.  I have realised that since my last emdr session,  I have been much more present in my life.  It took me a while to pinpoint it, because it was so new.  I achieved quite a lot of practical things, but instead of pushing myself to get them done, so that I could move on to.... something else that needed doing,  I was absorbed in the current task,  without being overwhelmed about the next and the next. I got things done, without being so drained.  And this was inspite of variable pains and the brain zaps from drug withdrawal.

Dear Libby,
This is so great that you're feeling 'more alive' - I also experienced that a couple of times yesterday - and it was a lovely experience to feel more.  It's great that you've achieved quite a lot of practical things too - and that you felt absorbed in the current task - wow, such positive things.   :cheer:

I hope that your next session goes well - and I'm thinking of you.

:hug: to you Libby.

Hope  :)

Thank you all, my "therapy friends" for your wonderful support.

I had another session yesterday - I think I am probably nearing the end of my therapy sessions.  I am so pleased I stopped the antidepressants.  I think it must have been the right time, this time round. I really am so much more relaxed, less anxious and definitely more present.
It's a very novel experience, and I am so pleased that you are having some positive experiences as well,  Hope.

Thank you so much for your kind wishes, Eyesofblue. I am keeping everything crossed that your support restarts as soon as possible. I know that alcohol is something you worry about.  I have found that my desire for alcohol has been much greater whilst I have been taking duloxetine. Reading around the subject, it seems that certain antidepressants do increase alcohol cravings.  I will be interested to see if I start to feel any different as the drug leaves my system. It does seem worth considering, maybe.

Driving my son to a job interview now. I really think that he has cptsd traits, from learning difficulties,  school bullying and having an autistic twin. I am actually quite in awe of his ability to keep on trying.  It would be great if he got this new job.

Hugs to you all.

Libby.

Libby, you really inspire me and I'm so pleased you sound like a completely different person from when I first got to view your posts. To think that you might be at the end of therapy too is such a big deal and I can't tell you how excited I am for you. I hope your son does well, I'm sure with your positive influence now he will do. Really pleased things are working so well. I'm still waiting haha, but am trying hard to keep positive unfortunately with the influence of alcohol as I can't yet find another way.x

Dear Libby,
Just wanted to pop by and write something to you in your Journal - hope that you are ok and I am thinking of you.    :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope. You are always here to give me that last little gentle nudge that I need to get me communicating.

I have been in such a "mess" since my last therapy session.  Up, down and all over the place.  I think it was the therapist's assertion that if I wouldn't give up my anger at parents,  it must be because I was holding onto it for a reason.  Which I suppose is right. I think that,  without my anger at my parents,  I don't really exist at all. I do feel much less anger at them, but that just leaves me with the crushing sadness, depression,  shame, guilt etc. At least when I was angry,  I had some energy to do things. Now I just feel hopeless.  But I am holding onto the idea that this could be the next stage in the grieving process.  Trying to keep going, but it's hard when I feel so utterly exhausted.

My therapist was so keen for me to see  my parents as just flawed individuals, who had themselves been damaged. Unfortunately,  because of the damaged way I think, as a result of my parents,  I am left with the guilt and shame for the way things turned out.  Because my whole life with my parents was a battle where we were winners or a losers and there was no middle ground.

I can't seem to alter that mindset,  which is proof of how flawed I am and why I sabotaged the therapy.

I am not sure if this makes any sense, but even if it doesn't,  it represents the convoluted nonsense that is going on in my head.

I think what I am trying to say is that I have to accept what I am. I have never been anything else. In fact,  most of the time,  I don't think I have ever really existed as a person in my own right. I realise that every real life interaction,  good, bad or neutral triggers me enormously. The intense nature of therapy was too much for me. I felt attacked if I didn't take on the therapists' ideas, which felt like being with my mother again. 

Where I go from here, I just don't know
I shall just have to go with it and see. Which, actually,  is quite a breakthrough in thinking for me! 

I am really trying with some small changes to my behaviour that might make things better for me.

Thank you, Hope,  and my other friends here.

Quote from: Libby183 on May 26, 2018, 07:34:53 AM
I shall just have to go with it and see. Which, actually,  is quite a breakthrough in thinking for me! 

I am really trying with some small changes to my behaviour that might make things better for me.

Dear Libby,
I am glad that you have noted a 'breakthrough' in thinking - even though you've been 'up, down and all over the place' since your last therapy session.  I think it's great that you're making some small changes to your behaviour that might make things better for you, and I am wishing you the best with that process.

Your writing makes a lot of sense to me - you express yourself clearly.  I was surprised that you wrote that you felt you sabotaged the therapy - because I thought you'd showed great openness to working in the therapy (from what you'd said in previous posts about it) and I was sorry that you came across what seemed to be a therapist lacking in empathy and understanding.  She seemed more pre-occupied with her own issues and her own relationship with her parents, and I thought she was potentially pushing quite a few of those views 'onto' you.  But I realise that's just my own perspective and thoughts, and that I wasn't there - it's just what came to mind.  I just wanted to share the reflection with you, if that's ok.

Libby - I hope that this weekend will be ok for you - I don't know how you find Bank Holiday weekends, but I think they're sometimes challenging - for whatever reason and I just wanted to wish you the best with this one - thinking of you.  Sending you a hug.  :hug:
Hope  :)

libby, i share hope's surprise at the idea that you thought you sabotaged your therapy.  i didn't think that at all.  i thought your t had an agenda that she just wouldn't let go of.  i can see bringing up what a t sees as an issue, running it past the client, see what the client thinks about it,  and use that information to move forward.  but hounding you to see it her way, do it her way, no, i don't buy  that as good therapy.

the idea that you may have a reason for holding onto that anger, well, you explained that you do.  but, to my mind, that doesn't mean that you have to give it up right away or all at once.  what you described as what your anger provides for you are topics for discussion, exploration, and possibly insights and realizations.  there's nothing 'wrong' with having reasons for holding onto an emotion - those reasons are valid. and can all be tackled when appropriate along the way.

the idea of not existing as a person in your own right has rung true for me as well, for many, many years.  i felt totally unknowing of myself, what i did or didn't like, where my boundaries should be, or that i even needed boundaries.  i simply tolerated and absorbed (much of it toxic).

i can now more easily accept myself as i am, still sometimes slow on the uptake, slow at knowing what to say or how to say it in the moment (i'll often think of what i'd wanted to say a few days later), and not even always knowing how i feel about anything.  with that, i'm more forgiving of myself, just allowing me to be me, flaws and strengths.

you were taught well, libby, to take those responsibilities on yourself for what others have done to you - hence the shame and guilt.  i think it's a monument to our intelligence and comprehension that we learned so well.  i also believe that such intelligence and comprehension can help us make it thru to our truths and realities, and let others hold their own.  we don't have to hold their behaviors and beliefs as our own anymore with the accompanying shame and guilt. 

it was never our fault, it was never our beliefs, it was never our actions that wounded us.  that belongs with someone else.  it's their shame and guilt, not ours.  it's on them.  i know in my life that those who abused me in whatever shape and form that might have taken, were all abused and wounded in their own ways.  however, that's not my responsibility.  i didn't do it to them, and i didn't choose to live my life as an abuser.  that was their choice.

so, i can leave it with them, and have my own emotions around it.  anger, hate, disgust - whatever.  i don't feel sorry for them, and some of them i don't forgive.  maybe someday, but not today.  i leave that to the powers that be to do with as they see fit.  it's out of my hands because i just don't have the capability to feel kindness or compassion for them right now.  possibly someone else can, so i'll leave it to them.

i love your breakthrough, and the idea of small changes meant just for you.  i think it's a very positive and healthy path for you in your life.  you go, libby!  love and hugs to you, sweetie.

Hope and San Magic, thank you so much for all of your validation, support and best wishes. I am so pleased to know that you don't think that I sabotaged my therapy by refusing to accept my parents merely as flawed individuals who are no longer in my life. That was what my therapist wanted me to accept.

In fact,  on my good days,  I do accept that. On my bad days, even with that acceptance,  it still hurts.  And why wouldn't it?

The one success of the emdr was with regards to my sister.  It was the one session that worked well - that got to a core memory, reprocessed it and left me with a new belief that I did not treat my sister as badly as my parents and my sister said I did. In fact,  I protected her enormously from my mother's instability.
I will never have contact with her again - her choice as much as mine. That is just the way it has to be.

The therapy just didn't address the issues with my parents in any meaningful way. The therapist said it was down to my failure to want to heal. I don't accept that,  which is, in itself,  a breakthrough for me
Normally, I believe whatever I am told. But not this time! That's my choice! 

The therapy, and the relationship with my therapist,  just came to mirror my relationship with my mother.  I was told I was wrong, had interpreted normal poor parenting as abuse, and needed to change by doing what I was told by mother / therapist.  More guilt and shame. But, at least,  I have finally realised that I have a choice. 

My goal is to accept, finally,  that I have a choice. It has to start with small things and it is going to take a long time.  Like you, Hope, this holiday weekend has let me practice making a choice and not feeling guilty and ashamed about it.

I will not,  however,  give up my sadness about what has happened to me and to all of us here.  That would seem to negate our suffering and tell bad  parents that it's OK to damage your children as it isn't your fault,  and to tell the damaged children that they can feel better if they too abuse their own children. 

So now for a shame free and guilt free day.  Hoping you all have a good day too.

Libby

Hi Libby,
I am sad to hear that you have a therapist who told you that it's your failure to not want to heal. And I can't quite find the words to tell you how wrong that is. Healing takes a long time, and it doesn't happen in a straightforward line or on the schedule of a therapist. They can't dictate how much progress, how much healing is done on their time. They are here to help, but they are not the ones doing the actual job.

I think too that it's a big thing that you've realised that you do have a choice, and you can choose. It's a huge thing, and can also be scary and confusing. I hope you'll continue to make choices that are guilt and shame-free.  :applause:

Sceal

i'm with sceal on all this, libby.  plus, i'm ticked off that that t laid that crapola on you!  as if you're the one responsible for taking care of them!  uh uh, no.  not your fault, not your responsibility.  shame and guilt belong with that t as well for saying such a dreadful thing like you don't want to heal cuz you're not doing what she says.  bleccccch!

very glad you're accepting you and seeing choices as a viable option for yourself.  that's great.  such a big step.


keep taking care of you, all right?  love and hugs, libby.

Sceal and San Magic.  I really appreciate your support and validation.  I find it surprising that she expected me to undo fifty plus years of damage in a couple of months. In fact,  my previous concern about therapy was when, after four sessions,  she barked at me " Why are your depression and anxiety scores still so high?"  I was shocked that I was meant to have recovered by then and we had barely started the emdr!

I am concentrating on making my own guilt-free, shame-free choices and it is going well.  Initially,  I worried that this just made me as bad as my parents.  After all, my entire existence was about what they wanted.  I am starting to get little glimpses that this can co-exist with being with other people.  It is really hard for me to get my head around,  because of my black and white thinking and the idea that every interaction is about a winner and a loser.  Concepts drummed into me from day one! Finally,  I am beginning to understand the concepts of self care and boundaries,  instead.

In a funny way, perhaps my dealings with my therapist helped me to get a handle on this. She came to represent my mother and what she stood for, but I was able to say NO to her and her instructions about how I should live my life. Something I was never once able to do with my mother.  Perhaps this is what she was aiming at?  I can definitely see how this helps me to move forward,  but I still hold onto my belief that my parents were horribly cruel and did so much damage, whether or not they meant to.  After all, I wouldn't be needing to build up my sense of self, at the age of fifty plus. I would have started to develop this sense of self from birth.  Wow, I think I understand the concept of reparenting the self, at last!  They took away,  or rather refused, a massive part of my life,  which however I look at it, I won't get back again. I can't overlook this, it's a step too far for me. This is an acceptable decision for me, that doesn't hurt anyone else,  including my parents.  I can leave behind my guilt over no contact.

So many things seem to have crystalised through writing this. I really think that this is the amazing value of this forum. You read, you write,  you understand.  I always feel that I take more than I give to this forum,  but hopefully my progress here will mean I have more to offer others.

Thank you, wonderful OOTS people.

Libby.

Quote from: Libby183 on May 29, 2018, 07:29:21 AM
Wow, I think I understand the concept of reparenting the self, at last!  They took away,  or rather refused, a massive part of my life,  which however I look at it, I won't get back again. I can't overlook this, it's a step too far for me. This is an acceptable decision for me, that doesn't hurt anyone else,  including my parents.  I can leave behind my guilt over no contact.

So many things seem to have crystalised through writing this.

:cheer: Libby - I am applauding your insights here.

I also agree with you that this forum is amazing - and I personally think you give so much here in the forum - you have certainly helped me, and I thank you for that.   :hug: to you, Libby.

Hope  :)

libbby, i think you're doing great with all this.  so glad that writing has helped you - it's usually helped me, too, to get clarity and realizations.  and i'm really happy that you're able to begin leaving the shame and guilt behind.  to my mind, that's huge.  good for you, sweetie.  well done.

love and a big hug filled with continuing realizations that lead to health and well-being.

Hi Libby -  :hug: to you and hoping that the weekend is ok for you. 
Hope  :)

Can't believe it's a month since I have been here,  but it's time to write some things down,  in the hope of gaining some more clarity for myself.

Firstly,  I am still struggling with the idea that was impressed on me in therapy, that,  throughout our relationship,  the faults lay as much with me as with my parents. 

I accept I was difficult as a child - I know I was not right/depressed /volatile from the time I started school, aged 4. Therapy showed me that my difficulties lay mostly with a total failure of attachment to my mother, who was very young,  and damaged herself, but is in total denial. I accept also that there may well be some genetic predisposition within me (especially likely as I have an autistic son, and I see so many similar traits). So, OK. It's not my mother's fault.  I am even toying with the idea of sending them an apology for my part in all of this. But I remember all of the horrid things she did, but the fact that it wasn't her fault,  doesn't make them any less hurtful. So around and around I go, tying myself in knots.

I am just left with this overwhelming sadness for all of us. My parents for their suffering,  my husband for having to put up with me, my children for all of the problems that have been passed onto them, through genes and experience. 

It's odd, but the people I feel no sadness for (and I feel so guilty for this) is are my elderly in-laws.  I am sure that my mother-in-law would be classed as a very psychologically healthy person, with good boundaries and a strong sense of self. I hate her with a passion. There,  I've said it. Every time I have any contact with her, I am really triggered.  She is so different to my mother, and yet I find her callous and indifferent.  It must be me, I say, but then I am stuck with the feeling that,  if she represents a psychologically healthy person,  then heaven help humanity. 

So...

I come back again, to that feeling I have had, that I am just not human, that I am not connected to society,  that up until a few years ago, I just played the roles society expected of me - devoted daughter,  good student,  worker, wife, mother. But I can't do it anymore.  So is this my authentic self? Probably, because something was so very wrong in both my genes and my very early experience.  There was never going to be any other life for me. I've not missed out on anything because nothing else was possible.

My mother's denial seems very appealing!!  But, then again,  my realisation of intergenerational trauma has saved my children from a whole heap of suffering.  So round and round and round. How to stop this?

I do feel very down,  especially as I am suffering from sinusitis or something similar.  I am too scared and ashamed (because of who I am, not the symptoms themselves)  to seek medical advice because I am sure doctors just see me as a nuisance and will just tell me it's a symptom of my mental health problems. 

I will stop now because my dog needs her walk.  It's just good to get it off my chest!

Hi Libby,
:hug: to you.  I just wanted to re-connect with you, as I've been away for a couple of weeks, and I see that you've not been here for a month - and I'm glad to see you here, and that you've written this - I wondered how you were and hoped you were ok.

I hope that you're enjoying the walk with your dog.  I am just about to go out myself, but just wanted to say 'hello' and wish you the best for the day.
Hope  :)

Hey Libby, it's nice to hear from you again. Very sorry to hear how you're feeling but I can totally relate, at the moment I've found a private counsellor who deals with the 'inner child' and it's brought up many memories and bad beliefs plus realisations about my childhood and actually how disconnected from my parents I really was. This is explained a lot to me on how and why I feel like I do about things, the protection I've built up around myself in the form of dissociation where I dissociated so much that for a long time I'd built up a pretend family and believed I belonged, I was loved and had a wonderful relationship especially with my mum, now I'm actually going back and looking at it properly it feels like my eyes have opened and I'm now seeing it how it was, I always believed I was a difficult child but actually was just a child looking for love and doing anything whether Good or bad to try and get it, and I never did.
Just wondered if you had explored your 'inner child ' or would it be worth you finding a therapist who could do this with you.
I think like me you will learn a lot from it and realise you don't owe people apologies, you will see things clearer and learn a lot from it.
The inner child work is really hard and extremely painful but I'm having a bit of a wake up call over it and realise that it was through my parents having had poor parenting that is how they dealt with me so badly, but like you I didn't continue this with my children and have broken that cycle thankfully.
I still believe your poorly matched therapist you had on the nhs has in some way damaged you more and am sure if you could find someone else you would have different realisations and would be able to move  forward without having self blame etc. I hope this maybe something you could consider. Take care.

Thank you so much, Eyessoblue.

Such a kind and understanding response was just what I needed. Your description of how disconnected you felt from your family rang so true to me. I am really starting to understand how strong this feeling was for me, as well. It wasn't just the bad times that I dissociated from. I never felt connected to them, even in the better times. Better times being, situations where everyone was OK with what my mother decided.  I still didn't really feel "right"  with them,  as if something was missing.  It's hard to explain the feeling,  but I suppose it was rooted in the failure of early attachment. I suppose,  then, that I probably did come over as "difficult".  My parents believe that they "tried so hard with me". That's maybe true, but they tried hard to make me fit in with their very strongly held view of family.  They were unable to even question why I was so unhappy.  I think this is where the emotional abuse really kicked in.  I had to be punished for spoiling our family.

So I do feel bad for my behaviour as a child and teenager,  but,  after my poor therapy experience, I am having trouble holding onto the idea that it wasn't all my fault. 

My therapist told me I was wrong in my belief that I was abused. I always assume I must be wrong about everything,  because that's the lesson I learned as a child and I assume every one else is right. But I don't trust myself or others.  That's a real feature of CPTSD isn't it? And that's where I am a bit stuck at the moment.

Thank you so much for your support and understanding.  In real life, I am coping quite well, keeping a nice, calm routine,  just with my husband, children and dog. If I could deal with the muddle of thoughts in my head, I would be OK.

Please keep in touch.

Hugs, Libby.

Hi Hope.

Thank you for checking back in with me. It means a lot. I have missed you on the forum,  but am pleased you had positive experiences with your time away.

...........


I just wanted to follow up on what I said about my mother in law, for my own peace of mind. I don't generally hate anybody,  not even my FOO.  I don't hate my mother in law, either,  but I realise now that I had been very triggered by her recently. I hadn't spoken to her for a while,  but she phoned about my daughter splitting from her boyfriend.  They had lived together for a couple of years,  but DD felt it wasn't right any more.  Absolutely her decision and she has dealt with the fall-out and all the practicalities completely independently and with great maturity.  Despite telling MIL this, she tells me how E "will just have to get on and cope with it. That's life.  She'll just have to be strong"  and some other such phrases.  I was triggered into reliving her tendency to phone and ask me how things were,  when I had three children under three, two with disabilities,  and wasn't coping at all well.  As soon as I said things were less than perfect,  she would make the same sort of meaningless comments and hang up. I have been utterly invalidated by her for the whole 30 years I have known her. This is her personality,  she is like it with everyone,  my husband just accepts it and expects nothing from her. I go along with this,  but I tie myself in knots when she triggers me. We have never expected anything from her, but I really question whether a bit of validation,  sympathy,  understanding is really too much to want, especially when it is her who has initiated the conversation.  Then I tie myself in knots in my mind, telling myself that she can be however she wants to be and my reaction to her is my choice. But if my reaction to her is negative,  then I beat myself up about this, because I have no right to be judgemental, because I am damaged and therefore wrong in everything I decide. 

Net result,  I don't hate her or anyone, but I simply can't cope with them. How not to feel guilty and ashamed at that?

Recently, I have considered trying to explain my cptsd to my FOO and my in-laws. I would like to think it would explain my behaviour to them.  But I don't think either group would understand.  FOO would invalidate with anger and hurt, and in-laws with a dismissive lack of interest.

Is it me, or is it just the extreme loneliness of cptsd.

Hi Libby, yes that's exactly what it is I think, the early attachment issue, if there wasn't any connection from your mother when you were a baby and small child and like mine remained emotionally detached then how can you grow up with a positive life experience when your main carer  literally rejected you through their own issues and nothing you had done. You were a child, you knew no better how could you, what you needed to have as part of the thriving process you never got exactly the same as myself therefore we grow up feeling detached feeling like we never fitted in and still today I have certain resistance to people and find I keep myself detached because that's what we were shown in our early life......
Again as I've said before I don't think your therapist fully understood and sounded as if she had her own issues anyway so by telling you that hadn't suffered is her easy ticket out of there!!!
Please don't give up and don't blame yourself for anything, our childhood and experiences is what makes us and and if we've been shown poor experience then that is our learned behaviour and what we grow up believing. Don't doubt yourself, you know what you've been through, you know it was abuse and just because a 'therapist' tell you different doesn't mean it's right, they're very good at wearing the 'therapist badge' but until they actually know what they are talking about they may as well have a 'learner' badge on them!!
Keep going strong, keep believing that there is someone out there who will totally get what you're saying and understand and make your life experience more positive. Please keep in touch.

Thank you so much, Eyessoblue. I was struggling with this whole issue and the shame and guilt I was feeling,  so reading your explanation helped so much. I have read this post several times and it is really helping to shrink the feelings of shame.

In fact,  even though I am suffering from this sinusitis,  I think I am doing quite well and feeling much more sure of myself about what I think and feel about things. It's quite an unusual sensation.

Hoping very much that your current therapy is working out for you.  I don't feel as negative about therapy as I did,  but will see how things go for a while,  especially as I do have a lot more insight and understanding than I did, and I am being kinder to myself than before.

Thank you again for your support.  You've helped me so much with your experience and your validation.

Take care.

Libby

Hi Libby, I'm glad my post helped. I'm doing inner child work with a private therapist it's going well but as she isn't trauma trained there are a lot of gaps. I'm being re assessed on tues and should hopefully be able to start attending anxiety clinic, but I've got to be 'bad enough' to fit the criteria and tick the right boxes!!!! It infuriates me as my last nhs counsellor discharged me saying my anxiety was so bad I needed to be referred to the clinic before she could continue counselling me and now they have to see if I'm bad enough, no doubt another waiting list until I can be seen again!!! I'll let you know how I get on.

Hi Libby,

I finally had the chance to read through your recovery journal. I had been away from the forum for the last few weeks.

I'm not sure how you've been doing and feeling lately but I just wanted to let you know your progress was encouraging for me to read. Great work!

Also, I can deeply relate to the feelings of detachment and isolation.

Sending you a hug and supportive thoughts!
-  Seashell

Hi Libby,
I hope you're ok.  You've been in my thoughts - and also your lovely dog - I hope her injuries are healing well - and I really hope that you and she can still walk outside - when you want to.   :hug: to you, Libby. 
Hope  :)

I can't believe how long it has been since I wrote here.  In some senses, I have been doing quite well,  but I don't think I could ever describe it as recovery. Change, maybe,  but not recovery.

A while back, I was feeling especially anxious, as a side effect of therapy so I started on mirtazepine,  which I has initially resisted. Antidepressants have never really helped, but as this was targeted at anxiety,  I thought it might help. It most certainly did not - I became even more unstable.  Amidst the acting out,  for some reason,  I telephoned my parents and told them how much I hated them. I have never actually said this to them and it helped. In a short conversation they used every tactic commonly used by abusers. Their bottom line was that they behaved as all parents do, including beating me, to make themselves feel better.  I have been able to let go of a lot of guilt over nc.

But what I have been left with is the feeling that,  actually,  they are right.  They took it further than the majority of parents, perhaps,  but really,  most people aren't very nice. And I include myself in that. I have no illusions about myself or about other people.  The only variable seems to be the level of denial.

I have never felt at ease with my in laws. I blamed myself mostly.  But I realise that they are just like my FOO. Their daughter has been, I believe,  deeply affected by their emotional neglect, and this is all being played out through her treatment of her children and grandchildren.  I hate to see it. My in laws have five grandchildren (three are my children) and all five have real issues.  And yet, it's all so normal, it would seem, that it's OK.  All denial, no responsibility.  Just like my family,  and many others. It makes me so sad and angry, and so distrustful.  I think I have lost trust in my husband as well. His denial is amazing, as well.

The attack on my dog also cemented my fear of people.  It wasn't the nastiness of the attack,  so much as the response of the owner.  To her, it was the fault of my dog for having traumatised her dog in some fictious past encounter.  Her denial was absolute, and felt just my mother's denial. Her belief that she never did anything wrong.  It didn't happen or if it did, it was my fault. 

It seems that childhood abuse is so destroying because, ultimately,  it makes you question yourself and others.  I know I am a very flawed individual but that seems to make me see so many flaws in others.  Are these flaws normal? My parents and in laws certainly think they are. So I suppose I am to blame/think myself above others for objecting to these things. Why did I object to my parents in the first place? Lack of attachment,  certainly,  but why? Autism,  very possibly. 

This has all been sloshing around in my head so perhaps writing here will lessen it's hold on me.

Any feedback would be gratefully received.  I really am in a state of overwhelming confusion.

Hi Libby,
Firstly, I just wanted to say that I've missed you - and I'm glad to see you here today -  :hug: to you.  I read what you wrote, and I saw you said that 'any feedback would be gratefully received' - so I wanted to reflect on what went through my mind as I read what you wrote - I am glad that you have 'been doing quite well' and you called that 'change' rather than 'recovery' - that makes sense to me - and I am glad that you have noticed some change.  I was also glad to hear that you felt that you were able to 'let go of a lot of guilt over nc' by contacting your parents and expressing your feelings to them.  I think that was a brave thing to have done. 

You spoke of some themes of 'denial' - and different levels of denial - and how this plays out in FOO, in-laws, and examples of your lovely dog too - and how that other owner didn't take responsibility for her part in what happened there.  I agree with you about levels of denial - I think they are quite prominent in many things - situations, scenarios, all kinds of things - and I've thought that people often are biased in terms of looking out for themselves (myself included) and then anything that doesn't fit with the perception can be minimised or denied - potentially.  When you spoke of the reaction of your parents when you phoned them, and how they acknowledged that how they had behaved had made them feel better - and of course, that was at the expensive of your feelings and your autonomy.  Denying your experience.  I felt sure that if I had contacted my FOO - that I would similarly have a response whereby they wouldn't take any responsibility for their behaviour - that seems very sad to me. 

I feel compassion for you when you say you question yourself and others, that you feel that you are a flawed individual and that you can see flaws in others.  I think you are sensitive to spotting what lies beneath denial - that you don't accept the sugary picture that can be portrayed by people - I often think of Enid Blyton at times like this, and how she wrote such carefree stories of Adventures and children having fun, and yet she had so many difficult things to deal with in her own personal life - and I wondered if maybe she dissociated into the fairytale land of writing to escape - to pretend that families were happy and content and enjoying Marmalade and Tea and cake.  Libby - the fact you are sensitive to seeing underneath these facades, and you can see the vulnerabilities in people and you feel them, I think it makes you a sensitive and more caring person - because if you didn't care, I doubt you'd feel these things and question what lies underneath denial.

Anyway, I hope you don't mind my writing so much - but you really made me think today - and what you wrote resonated strongly with me - and I just wanted to come over and give you some feedback on what you wrote - and how it made me feel - just a few reflections.

I wish you the best for the weekend, and I am happy to see you again Libby.  I hope you are able to go out walking with your lovely dog and that you have a good weekend.

Much love,
Hope  :)

Such a lovely, thoughtful response. Thank you so much, Hope. It really gave me a boost, and I am sorry that it took me such a long time to reply. I have been a bit unwell, but I have also been working on my new way of living. Nothing earth shattering, but much more acceptance of myself and what I can cope with.

I follow all of your posts and, as you know, so much of what you say feels so familiar to me.

All the best to you.

Hugs,

Libby.

Dear Libby, I just want to say that I am so glad to hear you're doing ok - and that you're feeling better after your time of being a bit unwell - the fact you're allowing yourself more acceptance of yourself and what you can cope with - that sounds significant to me.   :cheer:  I often think of you - and I look out for your posts too - hugs to you Libby.   :hug:
Hope  :)

Amazing. I have just discovered my old recovery journal.

It was very interesting to read it through, after so much has changed in my life.

I think it's time to resurrect it!

 :cheer:

I look forward to your offerings. 

Welcome back to your journal.  :hug:

I have been thinking for a number of days about making my first proper entry in my resurrected journal. Think I have been putting it off, like many other things.

I took a leap of faith yesterday, and emailed my sister. We weren't in contact for several years, because I was NC with my parents, so automatically NC with her as  well. I was the scapegoat and she was the golden child.

Since the death of my H, we have been emailing quite regularly, but mostly about very neutral subjects.

However, since my daughter went NC with me, I decided it was time to get everything that has happened, with regards to my Hs death, out in the open.

This led to my telling her about CPTSD, although I refrained from any blaming of my parents. That would have been counter productive. But I truly think it was a calm and reflective email.

I decided to get things out in the open. I weighed it up and decided that if she rejected what I told her, then I hadn't really lost anything. Just the occasional chatty email. It was more important to me to tell my story. After all, if I don't hear from her again, it confirms that family issues cannot be raised. I think that could well be the case.

My son who I share a house with came home from work and was very agitated. He had had an issue driving home. After he had got it out of his system, and I had really listened to him, I asked him about his Dad. I asked if he would have ever told his dad about his anger and anxiety. He said no, because he wouldn't have cared and he wouldn't have listened.

I felt validated because I have becoming more and more aware of how avoidant my H was.

Son got over his outburst and everything was fine. So that was positive for both of us.

My new neighbour had invited me to her house for a drink yesterday. Turned out she had forgotten, or maybe changed her mind. I don't feel like I sought her out in any way, but she made the initial move so I accepted her invite. She did say we could meet on Monday instead but I said I wasn't sure what I was doing next week. I don't think I sense any connection with her so I think I made the right decision to decline.

In the past, I would have felt I had to accept the revised invite, despite being resentful of being let down. This time, not especially resentful but chose to honour my decision.

Just a small thing, but positive for me. And I am not concerned about bumping into her. So win, win.

Have a counselling session later, to try and sort out how I really feel about my daughter. This is my big issue at the moment.

Hi Libby,

I know how anxiety-provoking it can be to wait for a response with so much weight. It was courageous to be willing to share about CPTSD with her knowing that she may not be capable of acknowledging what that means. I hope her response is affirming and also that you feel ok coming here for support if her response to what you went through with H and D and others is upsetting or dismissive.

Good job trying to connect.

And good job, mom, giving your son space to talk to you.  :hug:

I hope therapy today helps you sort out your feelings about D. It sounds complex and heart-breaking and challenging.

Libby:

I read a lot of great positivity here, Libby! That's wonderful.  :cheer:

I'm very impressed by how you are handling things with your neighbour, and your realization that your son was truly upset because he felt like he wasn't being heard, so you made sure he was.  :thumbup:

I'm glad to see you back here on OOTS, and I'm happy to see you write in a journal here too!

I've found that names and colours are an important thing to me, so I make it a point to greet others by name with their favourite colour. If you are comfortable, I would appreciate knowing your favourite colour so I can use it for your name.

All the best with your session and your continued healing journey!

Jazzy <3

Hi again, Jazzy. Thank you for your best wishes for my counselling session, and I am delighted to be asked for my favourite colour. It's definitely a nice, bright blue colour. I look forward to seeing it!

Thanks so much, Armadillo. I don't know at all whether it was a good idea to give so much detail to my sister. I suspect not. I just reached a point where I felt I needed to be honest, and vulnerable, I suppose. It would be good to get any response.


The counselling session was very helpful but definitely brought up so much. The counsellor definitely did validate me, with regards to my NM, and said that it made her want to weep. In fact, when I got home, I cried, which is unusual. I cried for poor, baby me.

I always knew that my trauma began at or shortly after birth. My mother made no secret of how she felt about me. She didn't see it as abusive or damaging, of course, and still regards herself as a perfect mother, I would imagine.

I have had to accept the fact of my extreme damage, and in some way, I have forgiven her.

But accepting the damage that I have, in turn, done to my children, is on another level altogether. I did try to do better and maybe succeeded to a degree. But I found it so difficult to trust my H. Definitely CPTSD, but he believed that everyone should do as they pleased, and if people didn't like it, that was their problem. So he was never wrong and never apologised, and disliked emotions and conflict.

I am much more stable without him, but my children see this as denigrating him. So we are at a sort of impasse.

My counsellor has suggested I could write to my daughter, telling her all of the things I love about her and all of the things I miss about her. I am definitely going to try this, as we did have lots of good times. Or so I thought.

I cried again today when it struck me that my H and I had never, in thirty years, danced together. He had never danced and that feels so, so sad. I think I am starting to tap into more compassion for him, which was always so hard because he was so guarded and unwilling to be vulnerable. Its so tragic that we couldn't grow together.

Hi Libby,

It all sounds very sad.  :hug:

I um...don't know if I should suggest this. But there's a podcast called the Reconnection Club that's meant for parents who want to reconnect with their kids after estrangement. I can only say listening as a kid instead of parent it sounds like would require putting all ego aside which may be exceptionally painful and maybe even harmful for someone with CPTSD. But listening from the estranged child side, what the woman talks about is exactly what it would take for me to feel safe reconnecting with my mom. (And will never happen because her mental illness would not permit her to do what is really needed). I say that all warmly and lovingly toward you and with no judgement at all other than feeling sad you've suffered and hearing that you want to reconnect with your D.

Quote from: Libby183 on June 26, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
The counselling session was very helpful but definitely brought up so much. The counsellor definitely did validate me, with regards to my NM, and said that it made her want to weep. In fact, when I got home, I cried, which is unusual. I cried for poor, baby me.

:hug:

Quote from: Libby183 on June 26, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
So he was never wrong and never apologised, and disliked emotions and conflict.


I cried again today when it struck me that my H and I had never, in thirty years, danced together. He had never danced and that feels so, so sad. I think I am starting to tap into more compassion for him, which was always so hard because he was so guarded and unwilling to be vulnerable. Its so tragic that we couldn't grow together.

The few times that my husband has apologized to me, it seemed more like saying what he felt he had to say to get me off his back. There was no real ownership of his part or understanding of how his actions/words affected me.

It is sad that you never danced together. At a wedding, my husband will dance one dance with me. He makes it clear he had done his "duty" and that's it. It's just something to check off of his "to do" list.  :sadno:

I hope when you write your letter to your daughter that you have clarity and the words flow easily.

Hi Libby, how is Electric Blue for you?

Your latest post here... that's a lot of deep stuff, I don't know what to say. Hopefully a :hug: will help!

I'm so sorry you have never danced with your H, that really hurts me deeply. I hope you can learn to dance with yourself until you find someone else to dance with.  :'( :)

<3 Jazzy

Thanks, Armadillo. It sounds as if the podcast you talked about is very much along the lines of what my counsellor was getting at. I want to make things better for my daughter, and the counselling has helped me get to a place where I want to help her, even if that doesn't involve being involved in her life. As you say, that will possibly involve further damage to me.

I hear what you say about your mother. I would need so much from mine to ever be able to connect with her at all. And like you, that will never, ever happen. She is absolutely unable and unwilling to ever give up any of her defenses.


So, if I could give my daughter something that would maybe help her, even if it were at a cost to me, then that would be making some amends. Something I will never get from my mother. I am starting to let go of the drive to get her back into my life, so that's probably moving in the right direction.

So, thank you for the suggestion. It's something I will look at, maybe with the help of my counsellor. I do think I am moving in the right direction and talking here really helps.

Thank you Notalone. Our experience of marriage does sound so similar. Your story about your husband sounds so relatable. One of my sons had a card game he really loved. Husband played once, won and stated that he had retired undefeated. He never played again, whereas I played games all the time. The children loved them and we did have a lot of fun. I did accept him as he was, and just got on with things.

The son who has been estranged since the divorce has only ever said one thing to me. That I stopped him having a relationship with his dad. Despite trying to dismantle my defences, I don't think this is the case.

There was always so much pain in our family. Death brought it to the surface.

Thank you for listening and responding. It genuinely makes me feel not alone.

Hi Jazzy. Thanks. I love the electric blue Very me!

The virtual embrace is very much appreciated and what you said about how sad my story made you actually really helps. It actually helps me see the sadness all around our family.
That my husband was unable to let go and have fun. I don't think that it was my fault but his defenses were so strong that we couldn't grow together.

Thank you for the colour and your kindness.

 :hug:

I'm so sad for all the pain. I just have a huge wish for relief for you but also know....that takes a long time. You're a loving mom.  That's very clear.

Quote from: Libby183 on June 27, 2021, 08:22:33 AM
I did accept him as he was, and just got on with things.


Thank you for listening and responding. It genuinely makes me feel not alone.

I'm so grateful for you sharing that your H was Avoidant. It is very aloning and your understanding and support mean a great deal to me.
I'm in the process of accepting and going on. My T says, "Grieve and live your life."

My guess is that your ex-H did not reach out to your son. His lack of relationship with his dad is on his dad, not you. I hope that soon, your son comes to realize that, or at least stop blaming you.

Quote from: notaloneMy guess is that your ex-H did not reach out to your son. His lack of relationship with his dad is on his dad, not you. I hope that soon, your son comes to realize that, or at least stop blaming you.

:yeahthat:

Thank you Notalone and Jazzy, for reading and replying. It means so much to me.

It's been a weird weekend. I just feel so, so tired. Normally, I'm busy, busy but I have no energy. So, very unusually for me, I have sat and relaxed and watched some dramas on television. Something I used to struggle to concentrate on. But I enjoyed them.

I think I am learning to sit with my pain, and feel it, but not react to it. Seems like a good thing, but so tiring!

Libby, what you say resonates with me.  It is tiring to sit with our pain and discomfort.  I hope something good comes of you sitting in this way.   :hug:

Thank you, Rainy Diary.

I had posted in your journal, just before seeing your message here. Really good timing!  We do seem to be dealing with some similar issues. Hopefully we will find our peace.

I agree Libby; sitting with the pain is exhausting!

This is great progress though. I'm so happy for you! I'm glad you are able to enjoy your shows more, and are learning to to accept the pain.

I hope you are feeling less tired soon. I've found it gets easier as I heal.

<3 Jazzy

Thank you so much for your encouragement, Jazzy. I am holding on to the hope that things will get easier as time goes on. I don't know that I believe it just yet, so it helps that you remind me.


....

Even though I have been on a healing journey for many years, and have made a lot of progress, I feel like this is going to be the most momentous and difficult period.

At least I have things to keep me occupied today. Dog walking, dental appointment to repair broken tooth, my cleaning job, which isn't really a job, as its for a friend, and then my son, and dog and I have tea with this friend.

I am otherwise very desperate to isolate, but this friend has become a sort of surrogate father to me, and I actually don't want to isolate from him, or my son, so that must be a good thing.

The other aspect that makes me think that I am making progress is that the depression I am feeling now, is different to the depression I've had for the rest of my life. I am not in nearly as much physical pain, and I am managing to carry on with my life. I am just experiencing so much emotion, which I have not really had before. Guessing that's what is so exhausting.

Quote from: Libby183 on June 28, 2021, 05:30:04 PM
I think I am learning to sit with my pain, and feel it, but not react to it. Seems like a good thing, but so tiring!

It sounds like a good thing to me, but I can imagine it's really tiring.

I've read some of your posts recently. It sounds like things are hard for you atm.  :hug:

Quote from: Libby183 on June 29, 2021, 08:22:28 AM

Even though I have been on a healing journey for many years, and have made a lot of progress, I feel like this is going to be the most momentous and difficult period.

I wish you did not have to carry so much emotional pain right now. It doesn't feel fair that you went through everything with your H and then at the end don't get to just have that peace and freedom you deserve. I'm hopeful part of this is the (extremely complicated) grieving process for someone who caused you suffering and who you were (and are) tied to. And also maybe part of the grieving process for your daughter, too. And that there's peace and lightness waiting soon. But gosh you deserve it now. 😪

Thanks everyone for your support. I have had a difficult few days, and today has been my first chance to catch up with everyones journals. It never ceased to amaze me how we are all dealing with such similar issues, despite living very different lives, at different ages and stages, in different countries.

But we come together here and feel truly understood.

....

It's been a difficult few days but I seem to have come out of a deep depression, with some extra understanding and positivity.

I was so physically and mentally exhausted that I could barely move, but I am sleeping a little better and definitely feeling more lively. I didn't push through, just sat and accepted, and it is OK for now, I think.

A situation I knew was coming, and would be difficult, has indeed come to a head. My father in law is in the last few days of life. He is ninety and in poor health, so it was inevitable, and I thought it would raise issues, given its less than two years since his son, my late husband died.

I have really only kept in touch with my sister in law. Wife of husbands brother. As this brother said at the start of his address at my H funeral, they were "not a close family." SIL and I just texted about our lives, our pets, the pandemic, a couple of times a week. We live a good distance apart. I had shared about my D cutting me off.

Then out of the blue, she texted that she can't do this any more and needs to be there for her husband, re his dad, so I replied that I understood, and to take good care of them both. She read the message and appears to have blocked me.

I don't really understand what happened, although her husband phoned a couple of days later to update my son and I on poorly FIL. It's unusual for me to speak to him, but it was fine.

My thoughts are that it might be best for me to let go of my last bit of contact with my in laws. FIL refused to attend our marriage as it wasn't in a church with a big party afterwards. I never developed any relationship with him, but was always polite, and actually initiated most of the contact with in laws, so that my children knew their family. FIL and my H were very similar, I think.

My feelings are that my in laws are my estranged childrens family. They are the only family they have. They weren't close to them, but I think they are in touch more since they became estranged from me. So I think I should step aside, partly for them, and, I admit, for self protective reasons. I won't risk hearing about my children, through in laws.

And, of course, I feel incredibly guilty and ashamed of this feeling. But then, it was SIL who, for whatever reason, cut contact.

My life seems to involve going round and round in my thoughts. Basically, not trusting myself.

As it is, I am just sort of putting it all aside for now. I don't think I need to do anything, except support my son who I live with, as he is losing his grandad.

Libby, I appreciate you sharing all of this.  What a difficult and confusing time.  I am thinking of you as you navigate this time with your in-laws. 

Libby this all sounds so hard. So hurtful. So confusing. And yet what I hear you saying....you sound clear and wise. I don't know why your SIL would say that but I'm going to guess: it isn't your fault or you. Whatever caused her to say that is her stuff. Others can act irrationally or even cruelly and it isn't always our fault and we need not take full blame.

Your priority right now is where it should be...supporting your son,  healing yourself. Your in laws have not been there for you and it breaks my heart that they did not support you through your marriage and your caretaking. You don't have to stay in relationship with them if it isn't healthy for you.

I trust things will come around with your daughter because of who you show yourself to be here, but can't imagine how painful that is, what a hard thing to sit in acceptance with.  :hug:

Thank you so much, Armadillo. I think I am doing quite well really. I've been out with my son, took my dog for a walk in the rain, and had a nice, positive chat with a neighbour.

I am at peace with the idea of not having contact with my in laws. I think I am generally learning acceptance and this might help my feelings about the situation with my D.

I think it is going to be alright and just hope and pray that my D comes through her sadness. She has had a very full and positive life so far, so if she can deal with her grief, then maybe she will come back into my life.

Thank you again for your support.

Despite really awful weather, and getting soaked from head to toe by a large lorry and a large puddle, I seem to be doing quite well.

I had a nice, and quite busy weekend, which even included some social activities. So much so, that I felt up to starting my next decorating project in my new house. Quite a big one, but I made some definite progress and felt good about my achievement.

I was approached by my neighbour who let me down, and she suggested that we meet up later in the week. As I was feeling stronger, I actually agreed. Will see how it goes.

Sadly, we heard today that my FIL passed away. I think that my son, who I live with, is concerned about issues around the funeral, with regard to his sister and brother. He is autistic and very anxious, so his reaction is as would be expected. I am concerned too, although I wouldn't imagine that I would go to the funeral. I think that FIL passing will be a difficult time for my children, coming so soon after losing their dad.

Libby, I am sorry to hear about the additional loss for your family.  I hope that you are able to work out what makes sense for you and your children as you navigate the funeral. 

Thank you so much, Rainy Diary.

Both MY BIL and SIL phoned me yesterday and we chatted. Everything was fine. Will wait and see how things pan out. Feeling very accepting of everything, so that's positive, at least.

Quote from: rainydiary on July 05, 2021, 07:58:14 PM
Libby, I am sorry to hear about the additional loss for your family.  I hope that you are able to work out what makes sense for you and your children as you navigate the funeral.

:yeahthat:

Hello LIbby 183,

You are going through a difficult time and your recent loss of your FIL brings so much to feel and to contain. I am glad to read a couple things from your prior posts:

1. that your depression seems different
2. you've started a new home redecorating project
3. you are open to family reconfigurations and are sensitive to others' pain

Your sensitivity to other members pain, your casual chat with your BIL and SIL shows me that you are doing quite well. I know this isn't "good" per se, but all these abilities to function are ways you can use as an anchor. Lots of small little things can make a big impact.

You have my sympathy

I couldn't say it better than BeeKeeper, Libby.  :hug:

Hi Libby,
I just wanted to add an extra hug, if that's ok  :hug: 
Hope  :)

Thank you all for your support.

I've been keeping up with you all, but have felt so tired. Again, not depressed exactly, but something a bit different. Not quite sure really. But that's often a difficult thing for us, isn't it?!

My father phoned recently and, probably for the first time ever, accepted the idea of intergenerational trauma. He took on board that my mother affected me, and in turn, I have passed the damage on to my daughter. It's not much, but something of a breakthrough. It's hard to imagine that my mother accepts any of this, but who knows.

My sister hasn't responded to my email, other than with a picture of her dog, and a promise to respond. But again, that could be viewed as positive. We shall see.

I am just so tired. So tired of people. I am relieved to have cut my last link with late husband's family. I know that it's self protection, through isolating myself, but I just don't see any positives in being linked to them.

I didn't intend to go to father in laws funeral and my son has decided not to go. Although I did say I would drive him. I feel so sad for him that his twin cut him out of his life completely. It would be awkward if they met again at the funeral.

I don't think it's just a defence against my pain, but my estranged son was a tiny, preterm, male twin, who cheated death a couple of times, wasn't expected to talk and displayed all sorts of difficulties from day one. Many, many risk factors, before you add in a mother with cptsd, a distant father, with issues of his own, a fully autistic twin brother, a dismissive sister and uninterested grandparents. I can see that I am just a part of his picture, whereas previously, I felt I was completely to blame for everything. I think that husband blamed me, and rejected this son, but I am the one left to blame.

I have been achieving a lot, however, despite my fatigue. I have made great progress with my home decorating, sorting out financial issues to make things easier for my sons future, walking my dog, making clothes. I even spent a nice few hours with the neighbour who had previously "stood me up!" Today, I am going to the shops for sewing supplies. If I just speak to one person, besides my son, I feel that's enough at the moment.

Coming here is so good for safe connection as well. Thank you all!

Libby,

This sounds incredibly traumatic.

Quotemy estranged son was a tiny, preterm, male twin, who cheated death a couple of times, wasn't expected to talk and displayed all sorts of difficulties from day one. Many, many risk factors, before you add in a mother with cptsd, a distant father, with issues of his own, a fully autistic twin brother, a dismissive sister and uninterested grandparents. I can see that I am just a part of his picture, whereas previously, I felt I was completely to blame for everything. I think that husband blamed me, and rejected this son, but I am the one left to blame.

And I totally agree that the instinct and urge to blame is almost unavoidable in circumstances like this. I want to affirm, there is no blame, you are not to blame, people that speak truth are facing years of unspoken anger, denial and decades of immaturity and irresponsibility from those unable or incapable of dealing with reality. Congrats on seeing and feeling you are a part, not the whole.

:cheer: :applause: :hug: :cheer: :applause: :hug:

QuoteI have made great progress with my home decorating, sorting out financial issues to make things easier for my sons future, walking my dog, making clothes. I even spent a nice few hours with the neighbour who had previously "stood me up!" Today, I am going to the shops for sewing supplies. If I just speak to one person, besides my son, I feel that's enough at the moment.

Coming here is so good for safe connection as well.

If there was a cartwheel emoticon, that would be up there too! Would love to see your decorating and clothes.

Sounds like you've got a lot going on, Libby, and it also sounds like you're doing a good job of being compassionate with yourself throughout the process. :)

Still feeling like I am doing pretty well.

I think one of the main positive changes is that I am now able to make a decision and stick with it. Not berate myself that any decision I take must be the wrong one, because I made it, and I am inherently wrong, regardless of the situation.

This personality trait can be absolutely linked to my n mother. I was never really allowed to make a choice as a child, and as an adult, I would make decisions which would be immediately criticised by my mother. I could never be right, was never validated, and I carried on the job of going against me, myself. No wonder I was paralysed about everything.

But this then leads me to my daughter.

I knew on some level about the damage my mother did to me, and I was always so careful to validate all of my daughter's feelings and choices. So how did things go so badly wrong with her? Did I go too far along this path? Probably.

My husband never seemed to admit he was wrong or even doubtful in his decisions. He never, ever said the word sorry.

So, it does leave me questioning whether my daughter is showing narcissistic traits.
I don't mean this to be disrespectful of her. She is a product of her upbringing. But I did start to query this a bit, during the horrendously stressful times of husband's illness. He gave her lots of cash, which she has no need for, and was exceptionally angry when I suggested she give it back, because it was needed to pay the mortgage and the household bills. She was very ungracious, threw it at me and left. Despite my lifetime of issues, I would never have kept money I didn't need, when it was needed elsewhere. I would have felt too guilty and ashamed.

The house that needed to be paid for during husbands illness was then sold so that my children got their share of his estate. I had to move out. Daughter has now bought her own house with her inheritance, and cut me from her life pretty much at the same time. I never once complained about selling the house and moving, and actually spent a lot of time and money and effort getting it sold. And never had any kind of acknowledgement.

I know that we are a perfect example to intergenerational trauma, but I do feel upset that I have had to face up to things, but my mother and daughter can carry on regardless. It feels very lonely.

Am I a really bad person for feeling like this? Probably yes, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Having said all that, I am coping with life pretty well. Actually enjoying things, communicating and socialising a bit, achieving things. All good.

So I suppose that I worry that my daughter will get stuck where she is, just as my mother is stuck. It's such a shame, but there is little I can do. The fact that my daughter cut me from her life really makes me believe that she is suffering. Whereas before her dad's death, she seemed OK.

I have accepted how things are, and will likely remain. Sad, but nearly inevitable.

I hope its OK to ponder these ideas here. I wouldn't voice them in real life.

Hugs to everyone for their support.

Quote from: Libby183 on July 19, 2021, 08:45:12 AM
Still feeling like I am doing pretty well.

I think one of the main positive changes is that I am now able to make a decision and stick with it. Not berate myself that any decision I take must be the wrong one, because I made it, and I am inherently wrong, regardless of the situation.

Hi Libby,
I think this is definitely a big thing to be able to achieve, and I wanted to say that I'm glad you're able to do this, especially as I relate to what you said about where the difficulty in doing this has emanated from.  I relate very much to that. 

You've been facing up to many things, it is clear in what you wrote, and I wanted to send you a hug of support, and hope that you feel a little less lonely with it - being able to ponder on these things here in the safety of your journal, it's great that you're doing that. 

You asked 'Am I a bad person for feeling like this?' - your own answer being 'probably yes, but it doesn't make it any easier' - I have to say that what went through my own mind after reading all that you wrote, and hearing you say 'Am I bad person for feeling like this?' is that I think you are an honest, thoughtful and caring person, who does look at intergenerational trauma and has tried to make some in-roads to dealing with that, and it's not easy, and I think you're really brave and honest, and I think you're a good person.  Definitely not a bad person. 

I hope you don't mind my reflections and writing these things. 

Hope  :)

 :hug:

Libby. You are doing amazingly well with your understanding, acceptance, and self-healing. I am sorry it is a struggle with your daughter and so painful.  :grouphug:

libby, there is so much in your post i could relate to, including the mom/daughter dynamic, her abuse towards you, cutting you out of her life, a husband/father who basically checked out and left you battling everything on your own, plus who never held himself accountable for all he did and didn't do.  when i've written here about feeling like it was all my fault that my D turned out the way she did, (i'm convinced she's narc. personality disorder, just like her father), people really helped and supported me in turning that feeling around by reminding me that there were at least 2 adults responsible for her upbringing, not just me. 

i know i made mistakes w/ my D's, but every parent does.  the fact that you are so very concerned for your children, their well-being, gave of yourself for them, and attempted to hold boundaries for your daughter (and got abuse in return rather than a conversation about the money) makes you a very good parent to my mind.  it's a sorrowful situation, to be sure, heartbreaking in a way only a mother can experience.

i just hope you keep taking care of yourself.  your projects sound lovely, and may be good distractions as you go thru everything you're facing.  love and hugs, my dear :hug:

Thank you so much Hope, Armee and San magic. Your support really does help me carry on despite the upset of the situation with my daughter. I do feel that I am gradually coming to  a place of acceptance. Understanding her situation, with compassion, but not taking all of the blame and guilt for how things have turned out.

You are so right, san magic. So many parallels in our families, and a family dynamic is created by both parents. I don't see how it can be anything other than that. Especially as my husband was a very strong personality, to say the least. When he was ill, my daughter knew how difficult he was to care for, and wasn't involved on any practical level. She supported him with phone calls. Then a year and a half later, decides that I didn't do a good enough job. I don't think anyone could do a perfect job in such a difficult situation, with such an awful diagnosis.

I am doing so much better at being kind to myself. It really is still such a novelty! I have had to deal with difficult situations with both my autistic son, and my elderly friend. Each tried to take out frustrations on me, at separate times. I felt myself go straight back to childhood, and being blamed for my mothers' problems and emotions. Each situation was different, but I coped well. I knew what was happening, and dealt with it, without the awful EF feelings.  With my son, I will calmly change something that clearly triggers him.

It's all progress, isn't it?  And it's the support and ideas on this forum, that help us keep moving forward.

The heat wave here has come to an end. I suspect you will be relieved, Hope. I know you aren't good in exceptional heat. So I am back to long walks with my dog, and continuing with my decorating project.

Hugs to everyone here!

Hi Libby

Hope and san say it best:

QuoteI think you are an honest, thoughtful and caring person, who does look at intergenerational trauma and has tried to make some in-roads to dealing with that, and it's not easy, and I think you're really brave and honest, and I think you're a good person. 

Quotethe fact that you are so very concerned for your children, their well-being, gave of yourself for them, and attempted to hold boundaries for your daughter (and got abuse in return rather than a conversation about the money) makes you a very good parent to my mind.

Parenting, and feeling "good" about it, is the hardest job in the world  :hug:

Oh, Beekeeper. Your kind words mean so much. Reading them really started me thinking that, despite my anxiety and depression, I did do the best I could for them. Having three children of two and under, including twins with developmental challenges, was tough. I think any one would struggle.

Your words, leading to a bit more self compassion, has really helped. It doesn't change the situation, but makes me feel more accepting. So that's good.

I made a lovely pair of summer trousers yesterday, and inspired by the craft thread on this site, I am working on a tapestry. I had forgotten how therapeutic  I find this, as I can pick it up any time I feel anxious. In the evenings, it helps me focus on TV programmes. So all good.

Sadly, it is my birthday tomorrow. It's something I just want to be over.

 :hug:

Bee has very good words and wisdom. I cant imagine how difficult those years would have been Libby.

I hope your birthday passes as quickly and painlessly as possible, Libby.

I can imagine lots of reasons why you would wish for your birthday to be over and all of them make me feel sad.  :hug:

What would you like from us here tomorrow?

Libby,

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: for the trousers! woo hoo! Would love to see them if you can manage the limitations and navigation of the attachments rules.

I used to feel the same about birthdays, and totally ignored and dreaded them for years. But BOING! at a certain year, maybe this one, maybe next one, who knows, you're going to WANT to celebrate your life and the strength it's taken to live this long, under so many burdens and trials. And instead of thinking about all that bad stuff, there may be something you allow yourself to feel and cherish. Then you bring it to yourself slowly, slowly, slowly. I wish you these things today:

Kind, gentle loving thoughts about all the things you've managed to do for yourself and others
Appreciation of your creative abilities and the ways you turn that into something visible and wearable
Your talents for writing, thinking and expressing yourself in ways that feel good to others
All the parts of yourself, whether visible or hidden that make you uniquely you and special
Sit down and write a list of your favorites, it can be anything. Look at it and pick one out to which to meditate
If you're feeling it, buy something silly and comforting with special meaning only YOU know

Most of all, give yourself one of these

:bighug:

Thank you all so much for wishing me the best for my birthday. Such lovely, kind and thoughtful words. It meant a lot.

It was OK really. A long walk with my dog, followed by watching a tremendous thunderstorm. It sort of matched my mood, really! And my elderly friend bought me a nice chocolate birthday cake!

I had a card from my sister, and a telephone call from my father. I think he is starting to understand the dynamics of intergenerational trauma. In the past, it was misinterpreted or downright denied. But now that my daughter has gone no contact, I think he is starting to accept things. He asked about her, as they used to be very close, and I explained as much as I could, with no blame directed at my mother.

Part of me thinks that he will probably draw back, but I am not dependent on my parents any more, so I am pleased that I managed to say my piece. What they do with it is up to them!

So, apart from being so very, very tired, I am pleased that I weathered another birthday. I am definitely getting so much better at accepting myself, treating myself better, and not feeling so guilty about existing. Great progress.

And I got myself a new pair of sandals, which I wore in the house, just because I could. Thank you, beekeeper, for suggesting I do something just for me!

Libby, this update brought light and I appreciate you sharing. 

Quotefriend bought me a nice chocolate birthday cake!

YUMMMMM  :yes:

Way to go with your new sandals and WEARING THEM same day!

QuoteI am definitely getting so much better at accepting myself, treating myself better, and not feeling so guilty about existing. Great progress.

Absolutely positively.  :woohoo:

 :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Happy birthday! Way to treat yourself well! Not only do you deserve to exist, it's great that you do!

What lovely, supportive messages. Thank you Rainy, Beekeeper and Armee. I even managed to stand my few birthday cards where I can see them, rather than hiding them in a drawer, which I usually do. Think that's progress!

The more I heal, the more I realise that the very core of my damage revolved around my absolute lack of a sense of self. Without a sense of self, how could I ever accept myself, care for myself, trust myself.

I have become even more convinced that this lack of a sense of self is due to the fact that I had absolutely no bond with my mother from day one.  She freely admitted that she felt nothing but dislike and disgust for me from the day I was born. She doesn't see that this can have any effect on me whatsoever, because I had food and clothes and gifts. My jealousy of my sister, just a year younger than me, is a complete mystery to her, despite her always telling me what a lovely baby my sister was, compared to me.

Admittedly, I was a difficult child, but I know now that I was just trying to survive.


I do wonder if I could ever explain this to my FOO? Probably not.

But what I would like to explain to my daughter is that, unlike my NM, I only ever wanted happiness, success and a good life for her. Unlike my mother, who wanted me to suffer, to take away her suffering.

This seems to underlie her insistence and desparation for me to have children. Whereas my daughter and I discussed, very openly on several occasions, the implications of her having children. I never said that she she should or should not have children, just that it was a very big decision and one that should not be entered into lightly. And that's without all of the issues with husband and his family.

Here I am again with intergenerational trauma! So wish that people other than the lovely people here would listen.

We live in hope!

What a terrible thing to feel and say about baby Libby. And the fact they don't even see why that is damaging is even more painful. I'm sending you lots of love as you heal.

Hi Libby,
Sending you belated Birthday wishes and a hug  :hug:

I'm glad you put your Birthday cards up where you can see them, rather than in a drawer. 

I relate to what you wrote about lacking a bond with your mother.  Also, the lack of a sense of self.  I relate to that too.  I felt sad when you mentioned that you were a difficult child.  When you wondered if you could ever explain this to your FOO, and you concluded probably not - I have to say I also felt that I could not explain it to my FOO either.  I think it's a difficult thing to communicate. 

Sending you a supportive hug, and also a Birthday cake to enjoy - sorry it's not a literal one  :hug: :cake:

Hope  :)

 :hug:

I can't believe that it's so long since I've been here. A big part of the reason is that I injured my back /shoulder, doing some gardening. I don't think I really overdid it, but my body has a way of severely over reacting, so I was in terrible pain for several weeks.

Strangely enough, it was a very theraputic time. I had no option but to care for myself, to rest, and to deal with the emotions around my husband, and daughter.

And much to my surprise, I have come out of the other side in a vastly improved state of mind.

For the first time in my whole fifty plus years I am not ashamed of myself, I trust my decisions, I am in control of my emotions, which I am getting so much better at recognising, I am not depressed, just sad at all of the pain and suffering all around.

I am so much more present, and so am enjoying really simple things, like cooking myself something nice, and serving it on my favourite plate! I am doing some socializing, but don't need to be with people. It's very freeing.

With regards to my husband, I just feel very sad. I think he was a very damaged person, a lot like me. His family were difficult. Different to mine, but still damaged. He could never accept that he was damaged, or admit to any mistake or insecurity, never said sorry, and it suited him to focus on me as the damaged person. Does this describe a co dependent relationship? Very possibly.

I was always aware of a very strong undercurrent of anger in him, which he denied, both to me and himself. My NM was just the same, so I was constantly triggered. After his death, his brother said in the course of conversation, that he was a very angry child and teenager, especially towards their parents. I found that very validating. It made so much sense, and reassured me that our problems weren't entirely my fault, despite his assertions that everything was down to my damaged personality. I have huge compassion for him, but his death was not my fault and I did everything I could for him when he was ill.

Now for the difficult issue of my adult children. Even this has become easier. I have always known how difficult life has been for them. Not just because of the intergenerational trauma, but because of their own issues, like prematurity, low birth weight, birth trauma, brain damage, autism. I did my best, in very difficult circumstances and all three of them have quite good lives, each with jobs, nice places to live and things they enjoyed. They also have financial security. The rest is up to them now.

Whether down to his brain tumour, or his difficult personality, the one thing I am angry about is the rift my husband brought about between my twin sons. They were close and supported each other. The one who suddenly became dad's favourite, right at the end, won't have anything to do with his brother, who had been dad's favourite. Such a shame. Daughter was his golden child, and I think that her difficulties lie here, but that is for her to work through.

As regards my FOO, I think I have reached some peace here too. I will continue to chat with my F when he phones. I think he is starting to understand what has happened. That's a positive. My NM will never accept anything, but I know that she is also the victim of intergenerational trauma, so I feel compassion, and almost forgiveness.

I tested the waters with my GC sister. I wondered if now that I was in such a better place, I could have a connection with her. I have come to the conclusion that this will never happen. And I am fine with that. I tried, and have realised that there is nothing there.

When I did EMDR, I discussed how, in my dreams I was never sure if I was dreaming of my daughter or my sister. Both are GC, I suppose, so it sort of all makes sense to me.

It is acceptance, isn't it? I am what I am, because of what has happened to me. The same applies to my late H, my children and my FOO.

I am sure that I will still have down days, but I believe I can get through them now. My husbands death has given me the opportunity to heal. At first I felt guilty for this, and my children increased this guilt, but his early death was his destiny. He actually had a strong belief that he would never reach retirement. I have grown, and hope that my daughter can too.

Sorry this is so long. I wanted to record everything, and this seemed to be the place to do it, because this site, and all of the amazing people here have played such an important part in my improvements.

I look forward to coming here and seeing how everyone is doing. Maybe even helping a little.

Quote from: Libby183 on September 13, 2021, 08:33:41 AM
For the first time in my whole fifty plus years I am not ashamed of myself, I trust my decisions, I am in control of my emotions, which I am getting so much better at recognising, I am not depressed, just sad at all of the pain and suffering all around.

I am so much more present, and so am enjoying really simple things, like cooking myself something nice, and serving it on my favourite plate! I am doing some socializing, but don't need to be with people. It's very freeing.

As regards my FOO, I think I have reached some peace here too. I will continue to chat with my F when he phones. I think he is starting to understand what has happened. That's a positive. My NM will never accept anything, but I know that she is also the victim of intergenerational trauma, so I feel compassion, and almost forgiveness.

I tested the waters with my GC sister. I wondered if now that I was in such a better place, I could have a connection with her. I have come to the conclusion that this will never happen. And I am fine with that. I tried, and have realised that there is nothing there.

It is acceptance, isn't it? I am what I am, because of what has happened to me. The same applies to my late H, my children and my FOO.

Wow!  :applause:

So happy for you Libby! :grouphug:

Libby!  :wave:

So , so very glad you are BACK! I'm thrilled at your new awareness and growth, which happened so quickly, despite the competing pain you must have been in. I totally relate to that back/shoulder pain because it's a constant, chronic "fly in the ointment" for me.

Before I get into how many wonderful and validating things you've discovered, I'd like to first mention this:

QuoteHe could never accept that he was damaged, or admit to any mistake or insecurity, never said sorry, and it suited him to focus on me as the damaged person.

Now that, to me is the crux of the matter. I would advise you NOT to read my journal, but start fresh from today, if you are inclined. Or even pass it up. Doesn't matter. I came to a similar understanding about my ex as well, and when that happened, the chains that have held me for 46 years busted apart. That's fairly new too, only a couple of days but ultimately made total sense in context with past behavior.  So, you've made a LOT of progress in the past months.  :cheer:

Your peace within yourself is obvious and especially the way you describe interactions with others. Enjoyment, but not hot pursuit. The dynamics with the kids are also very clear. Sad, traumatic and true. A lot of time is spent untangling that, and wishing it were different, but I sense that you are laying it out and saying my most unfavorite phrase in the entire world: It is what it is. There is some freedom in that, which I've always rejected, but you make a good case and lead as an example.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to tell us all of your progress and healing. I was getting concerned about you as I'd noticed you were gone for quite some time.  :hug:

 :hug:

What amazing work, Libby. Everything you wrote...so true, painful, and healing. There's so much to respond to there but for now I'll pick out the one that hits closest to home for me because it is exactly what I am going through now with my mom's death.

Yes, your husband's death is giving you space to heal. It is a shame others have made you feel guilty for that. He caused you and your family tremendous suffering and until that was in the past there was really no hope for moving forward.  You behaved lovingly. He caused so much pain and suffering for you, and blamed you. I am here, celebrating with you, that you are now free.