So bear in mind I haven't yet received a definitive C-PTSD diagnosis and am not entirely sure all the ways childhood trauma has affected me yet. I know I have issues with dissociation, and wanted feedback on this particular problem.
Exhibit A: Sunday night. I can't remember if I was reading or watching a movie. I honestly can't even really remember this exchange either so I am improvising.
DH: "....t hahaha that was so funny."
Me: "Haha, yeah."
DH: "So you were ok with that?"
Me: "Ok with what?"
DH: "I just said I was going to take a shower now."
Me: "What? You did?"
DH: "Yeah, just minutes ago. I said, 'Ok, I need to go take a shower now, you just going to hang out and read?' And you said...."
And then it's gone again. But he proceeded to tell me about 3 or 4 sentences and exchanges I do not and could not remember. I have no memory of even conversing with him before the above exchange.
This has happened at least a handful of times in our marriage, where he fluently and unwaveringly quotes things I said minutes ago or earlier in the day that I have no memory of speaking.
Does anyone with C-PTSD experience this? Is it associated with other dissociative disorders?
Thank you for sending me back to that thread, bheart. I related so much to your experiences, incuding dissociating at my T's office and remembering almost nothing of my time there.
It's hard seeing myself so fragmented. I found a scholarly article that discussed what dissociation looks like in its various manifestations in trauma survivors. I'm not entirely sure I have anything so severe as DID, but I'm not entirely sure I don't. I see parts of me more than I see a whole me. It's hard to explain...
My DH was awesome last night. I told him how I'm feeling about my dissociation and he's agreed to help me ground myself in our conversations. I'm most likely to dissociate interacting with other people, sitting at home by myself, or driving, so if you've got any tips to keep me present in each situation, I'll happily accept them.
Yes it happens to me all the time. Is that called dissociation? Like you see someone talking or know they started talking to you but you dont know what they said? I thought at first im just notgood at multi tasking, but when the children react in disbelief and frustrated irealised that doesnt happen with them and my husband.i started to tryand recognise those times and snap out of it, usually its still too late but i realise i go deep into thinking about past things almost like im there again. I thought everyone does this though...
I find I do this a lot when I'm tired.
I slept so little last week, that I "lost" an entire night, and misplaced my wallet. It makes me feel like I am going insane.
Losing my wallet is quite an event for me. I'm normally very responsible.
Quote from: Annegirl on January 11, 2015, 05:50:22 AM
Yes it happens to me all the time. Is that called dissociation? Like you see someone talking or know they started talking to you but you dont know what they said? I thought at first im just notgood at multi tasking, but when the children react in disbelief and frustrated irealised that doesnt happen with them and my husband.i started to tryand recognise those times and snap out of it, usually its still too late but i realise i go deep into thinking about past things almost like im there again. I thought everyone does this though...
Annegirl, what you describe at the end there, is a thought trap called rumination. If you stop by this forum's counterpart, you'll find that a lot of us have the same problem. There's a thread there, where we're all trying to work together to stop ruminating.
http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=39257.0
Not everyone does that, and it's really a bad habit to keep rehashing the past. It makes it really hard to move on, and I'd have to say it's my number one obstacle right now.
Ok so its kind of easier to get over than dissociating?
I think "easier" is a very subjective idea. It might be, for you. Give it a go. It's probably one of the hardest challenges I've ever faced, personally. It all depends on your experiences, and your coping skills.
Feeling disassociated past few days. Very anxious too.
Not felt like i was inside my own skin as I usually do, but I guess i have been inside my own skin, more observing myself doing things but wrapped in a cloud, working on auto pilot, but very slow auto pilot.
Keep loosing things, ill put something down and then forget i put it there, every second this happens.
I feel I'm not in control of my body or my actions and whilst i dont want to be preasent at the moment, its quite scary and frustrating, and if i wasnt disassociated, I would be actually angry and frustrated at this.
Also, I am realising more and more that i cant remember past events and i nod along and say yes, so that others dont think I'm thick.
I cant explain this to anyone, know one knows me or about my history, and i feel very alone.
If someone could just understand and accept it, it would be ok.
I cant remember people either, and in a conversation, someone will say something, then ill ask them again the same question i already asked, and then they will tell me they have just told me.
Maybe this is why i used to loose my belongings as a kid, but I'm not sure if that was actually me, or if my mum framed me (undiagnosed Npd)
Quote from: Indigo on September 20, 2015, 10:38:08 PM
I cant remember people either, and in a conversation, someone will say something, then ill ask them again the same question i already asked, and then they will tell me they have just told me.
Do you, at those times, know where you 'went'?
I'm familiar with this phenomena, where people talk to me, and somehow only after they stop something inside me realizes: "A response is needed now" and I go: "Huh? Sorry. I was somewhere else. What did you just say, ask?"
Expressing that helps me get grounded again. And usually I then do not 'travel back' to where I were, but remain 'at the present'.
Does that resonate to your experience?
QuoteMaybe this is why i used to loose my belongings as a kid, but I'm not sure if that was actually me, or if my mum framed me (undiagnosed Npd)
I have one particular memory of not knowing if I was framed or not: I was missing some dinky-toys, quite a lot actually, and I couldn't find them even after my mom had said to me to go look for them in my room.
I accused the neighboring boy of stealing them.
After a week they miraculously appeared, they were hanging in a bag on the radiator-knob in my room.
I had to make apologies to the boy.
I STILL don't know how I could have missed the bag in full sight, nor how my mom could have missed that bag for a whole week.
( I was quite a withdrawn boy who would spend most of his time playing at home, often alone, in my own room. I should have bumped into them. I figured. When they re-appeared.)
I still think something else happened there. That the toys were at my neighbor-boy's house. Perhaps I had taken them there in a bag and simply forgot I had taken them there. And by accident left them there, without realizing I had forgotten to take them home again.
I stil had a long and good friendship with the boy after that and my apology. :thumbup:
But it's still is a fishy memory.
It happened a lot and I assumed it was bad memory or selective memory. Or that he was wrong/lying. I do wonder about dissociation. How would I know? At my age I frequently get up and go to another room for something and by the time I get there I can't remember what I was going to do.
During phases of dissociation, which have been happening again in the past few months, I "discover" lost time, or at least time I can't account for. And like you, Indigo, I find things in unusual places.
Thankfully, the condition usually abates, but it's scary. I've been trying to "ground" myself by writing lists and setting alarms, but these tactics are only partly effective.
I've been told to consider other techniques for grounding like holding a familiar object or having a friend call at a designated time.
Indigo, I hope you can find a strategy here.
How are you doing, Indigo?
Are the meds of any help?
Quote from: Widdiful Falling on March 26, 2015, 05:47:06 AM
Annegirl, what you describe at the end there, is a thought trap called rumination. If you stop by this forum's counterpart, you'll find that a lot of us have the same problem. There's a thread there, where we're all trying to work together to stop ruminating.
http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=39257.0
That is an awesome link, Widdiful Falling.
Especially DeeSchex's post looks promising.
Ruminating is my biggest downfall of all. I'm stuck for years in the FOO-POO already, and the attention to it seems to be growing still. The awareness of it for sure (the latter is probably a good thing).
I do realize I'm making progress, but I sure can use some tools to slow down the process. I have plenty of time to work through this really. I'm stuck with cPTSD for almost 50 years now, so why should I fix this NOW or next week? That's not going to happen anyway, so I certainly can use all the tools to be more productive and less dysfunctional in other area's of my life by cutting down on the ruminating.
edited to add:
this post will probably very beneficial for me too:
http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=39257.msg364728#msg364728
Because I mostly ruminate over the bloodsucking FOO uPD's. I've just written on a sheet of paper this quote:
QuoteWhat I try to remind myself of is that I am getting myself upset over a toxic person that treats everyone poorly. What's the point of that??? If my child's father treats his mother, his girlfriend, his sister, his neighbors like absolute dirt - than why am I going to be any different? It does not excuse his behavior, but it allows me to depersonalize it (on a good day). Why should I waste my time getting upset over someone who has disordered relationships with everyone they come across???Why should I internalize the words and actions of someone who is pretty much not playing with a full deck? I may as well feel angry and resentful toward a brick wall.
That is exactly what I should train myself to do, or they will never get out of my brain, and I'll never stop ruminating on how/why it went wrong.
I should probably copy that quote daily, until I do what it says I should, automatically.
Hi Stillhere
When you say you discover lost time, what is that like?
When you word it like that- finding things in unusual places, its true and i cant believe it happens to me, that i am a person who dissociates.
Im guessing you also put things down and cant find them for forgetting where you put them? thats the same thing i guess.
Even if it is in place you thought it would be, you forgot you put it there as in , you dont remember doing it.
It abates with me too.
This made me laugh haha... I've been trying to "ground" myself by writing lists and setting alarms, but these tactics are only partly effective.
Good idea to set the alarms, i have always been a huge list maker.
My problem is , when things are bad, i dont want to be grounded. Not yet.
Thanks for your reply and experience.
Indigo, this sounds like it is not pleasant at all :sadno:. i wondered, was there something that prompted this episode, or did it just come on?
Quotei cant believe it happens to me, that i am a person who dissociates.
the way i look at it, i think it would be more unbelievable if you hadn't learnt to do it, it was a good survival skill at the time and it helped you when you were least able to cope. so, maybe no need to beat urself up for being someone who dissociates?
anyway, i hope this bit passes, and that you can gradually feel safe enuf to come back into yourself soon. also, remember that you're not on your own with this and you're supported. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Hey Dutch Uncle
I dont know where i go at those times. I will try to figure it out if i can.
Aparently during dissociation, the brain totally shuts down. Not sure if thats right but is fascinating. There must be some part of it that is still working surely, unless, its bodily response, as the body is still alive as heart still beats.
Yes, it is grounding to say, oh yeah, you just said that, something to that nature.
I always thought i was stupid, not remembering things from the past, but since T told me I disassociate - freeze type), Im thinking maybe I'm not stupid. There are chunks of stuff i just dont remember.
That is strange about the toys.
Maybe you did miss them on your door- but perhaps not if they were on your door for a period of time.
Its such a shame that you had to apologise to the boy!
Hopefully one day you will know what really happened if you wish to know.
I have heard of narcissists hiding things from people, this one woman who does videos on narcissism said that her husband kept telling her to buy salt over and over, that she was so dumb and forgetful, and she believed it. When she got rid of him, she was still in the same house they lived in together, and she decided to look for the salt.
She found it on the very top of the cupboards, right at the back, many many salt pots that she DID buy, hidden behind other jars and stuff.
I still think something else happened there. That the toys were at my neighbor-boy's house. Perhaps I had taken them there in a bag and simply forgot I had taken them there. And by accident left them there, without realizing I had forgotten to take them home again.
I stil had a long and good friendship with the boy after that and my apology. :thumbup:
If you had left them there, they wouldnt be at home. you say you may have left them there and forgot to take them home - so if this is true-
who would have put them in your room?
Hi, Indigo,
Yes, I don't really want to be grounded either. The thing is dissociation is an effective defense against what is, at least for the moment, unthinkable. When I do it, I really can't be present in any significant way.
The experience varies. I can lose time in ways I don't really understand, but every now and then I realize that hours have past and I don't know what I've done. I work alone some of the time, so I don't have social connections to keep me grounded. And, yes, I put things down and can't remember where they are. Worse, I find myself disorganized after having made much effort to keep a project on track. It's disconcerting.
This sort of thing happens sporadically, often when I'm especially stressed or threatened, as I have been lately.
Lots of websites have suggestions for "grounding." But they don't always work if you don't realize you need something.
Quote from: Indigo on September 21, 2015, 06:12:41 PM
Yes, it is grounding to say, oh yeah, you just said that, something to that nature.
Only if you DO remember them saying that. Otherwise you'd be fooling yourself, which is not a good thing.
It might be different if you do this when it happens with a stranger and don't want to embarrass yourself. But if if happens when you speak with a good friend or co-worker or so, it might be better to say: "oops, I didn't realize it." Perhaps even followed by "This happens more of the times lately." And even "That worries me a bit/lot actually". But that obviously depends on the level of trust you have in the 'partner' at that moment. It is a bit embarrassing, I can fully relate to that. But what is happening to you is happening to a lot of people. You're not a freak. :hug:
I'd almost say: don't gaslight yourself. It won't help you.
:hug:
PS: about the toys? I don't know what happened, and I'll never find out anyway. But perhaps I had upset things so much with my accusations to the boy, that when
his mom found the bag she was afraid this might only strengthen my resolve in the theft-theory, that she and my mom decided to secretly hang the bag back in my room and play '
schtum'.
For one that seems the most innocent and well intended explanation, so I have always stuck with that (when I had eventually invented the above narrative)
Hi Arpy1
erm, stress, break up with partner brought this on.
My T said i forget where i put things because of stress.
Stress makes us disassociate right? She told me i disassociate.
Im wondering if it is normal to forget where you put stuff, what people just said, what you were talking about, if you are stressed, or is this more dissociative?
Im not upset that I disassociate and dont beat myself up, maybe when in public and I'm forgetful. Thanks for that.
Only mad when i think i was forced to disassociate, and when I'm trying to express emotion to myself, I cant sometimes or i can only go as for as i can go before I disassociate.
Thank you sooo much for the support Arpy1 and for your lovely words.
:hug: :hug: :hug:
:hug: :hug: :hug: to u too,Indigo.
Hi Stillhere
and thanks for your reply
It is a defence mechanism, so it makes sense that some wouldnt want to rid themselves of it.
Maybe there is a way this can be used in a more healthy way.
Im not sure ive had the experience of not knowing what ive done for the past few hours, but i really have to rack my brains sometimes to think of what i did that morning / afternoon, or the day before. Maybe i do loose time, which is funny because, during the time that i will later loose, i feel i am present, unless I'm obviously disassociated and i can tell i.e. derealisation / depersonalisation.
I am sorry you feel disorganised after projects and trying to be organised. Its frustrating.
I hope you are doing better.
This sort of thing happens sporadically, often when I'm especially stressed or threatened, as I have been lately.
I agree about the not realising you need grounding therefore noting will work
I dont want to be grounded when stressed, but when feeling fine but am derealised , i want to be present as it feels I am only observing the world from behind glass when i strangely for me want to be participating.
Hi Dutch Unkle
Yes I agree with you on that actually"
Only if you DO remember them saying that.
I do often remember, but when people talk about past events, and I'm honest and say i dont remember, or i dont remember the conversation i was part of, I dont want to go into the whole-
well i disassociate so i forget -
soemtimes i wish i could tell those i interact with more of often than others, but i wouldnt want everyone to know.
Do you ever feel that way Dutch Unkle?
How do u tell them if you do? how do u explain?
Do you think we have always forgotten as we have always disasociated?
Im realising now that my memory is patchy and somethings completely wiped that people talk about that i was part of.
Do u think it increases over time, this forgetfulness (disaosciation)?
Haha, thanks. ;)
I'd almost say: don't gaslight yourself. It won't help you.
PS: about the toys? I don't know what happened, and I'll never find out anyway. But perhaps I had upset things so much with my accusations to the boy, that when his mom found the bag she was afraid this might only strengthen my resolve in the theft-theory, that she and my mom decided to secretly hang the bag back in my room and play 'schtum'.
God, your mum if this is true, should have been honest with you.
Quote from: Indigo on September 29, 2015, 10:52:08 AM
I dont want to go into the whole - well i disassociate so i forget -
sometimes i wish i could tell those i interact with more of often than others, but i wouldnt want everyone to know.
Do you ever feel that way Dutch Unkle?
How do u tell them if you do? how do u explain?
I hadn't really thought before this (=probably having cPTSD) that I might be dissociating.
So far I've always attributed it to just being absent-minded.
Which is probably why I was able to just say "Sorry. I wasn't here for a moment. What did you just say?"
Though I guess in less familiar company, or on accessions where it would be really embarrassing 'not being there' (a business meeting, an important social event with colleagues or so) I probably improvised some act.
So yes, I do know the routine of 'trying to wiggle my way out' by trying to get some sort of elegant escape that won't expose my dissociation. If that works or not I'm not sure, but I think I've become quite good at it. I don't get called out on it much, so... ?
With good and trusted friends it's OK, and no further explanation is necessary.
In the off chance I'm honest and open to strangers, I've experienced that no explanation is required either. Everybody has their moments when they are just with their minds elsewhere. They might be with a difficult problem at work or home while we simply draw a blank, but they don't know that ;) . So unless I
keep 'drifting off' all is well.
Sometimes I just leave and say "I'm really tired, I'm going to go home." Which usually is fine as well. And true ;). We're adults, and
most people treat each other as such.
I probably should look a bit more into 'dissociation'. While I typed this (this is actually my second draft), I suddenly had a memory of something that is possibly much more a dissociation:
I was talking with a dear and old time buddy, and he said things that made me confused: He said things that I had only dared to think about my female sibling, and I was really puzzled if he was now repeating something I had (possibly) told him, without me remembering doing so. That would be strange, since he was clearly passing it off as his own thoughts on the matter, he was trying to help/aid me. Giving me his perspective on things.
Now, I'm sure he would not 'pass something of as his', so this all really made my head spin, and I had really a lot of difficulty with 'staying there'...
Hmmm...
Actually, I mentioned this at my SCID-II test, and it has been catalogued as (*goes to drawer to get the rapport out*):"
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms" (BPD diagnostic) (that was only 1 of 2 I scored (out of a possible 9), so no BPD. Pfew.) I thought they meant it was a paranoid thought, but perhaps they chalked it up because they viewed it as dissociation?
Hmmm...
I'm sorry to have gone of a bit of a tangent there. But lest I would forget, I'll leave it.
In the last example I gave, I certainly did not tell my dear friend! (It was the time I went to visit him to confess my alcoholism. One scary confession at the time please ;D . I'm not Invulnerable Superman, LOL. )
D/U, a thought: you might ask your dear old friend about he said. Was he repeating something you'd said? Was he drawing his own conclusions? How did he know?
I've had a few experiences like this, with a very few people I know well and trust greatly. They sometimes say things I've not dared to think to myself, let alone say out loud. The best of friends can sometimes become a separate but highly helpful set of perceptions.
If by chance your friend is one of those, then chances are also that you've not been dissociating.
What I've read about dissociation links the process to the "flight" response. Sometimes, people flee, literally. A dissociating person might get a car and drive away with no apparent destination. But "losing" oneself or part of oneself can come from immersion in something distracting or from extensive "spacing out" without a distraction.
I think lots of people space out occasionally. The question I've had is what "counts" as dissociation.
stillhere: makes me wonder if I do that as part of my add/hypervigilance or something like that.
Hi, Tired. I think perhaps I do -- that is, I dissociate somewhat at times I've also been hypervigilant. The responses come from the same need, I think.