Ok...I think I'm ready to start this...I don't want to go into all of everything that put me in this place where I am now. At this point, I still feel kinda guilty for "blaming" others for what I'm now dealing with. I have to just accept where I am without holding anyone else responsible. at least for now. For now i'm just gonna focus on how to get out of this place rather than how i got here. i'm pretty new at this recovery thing, i'm just trying to pay attention to what i feel and what i need. other than that i don't know what to do.
anyway, I had an aha moment last night. someone that i'm really close to and trust more than just about anyone else keeps offering to buy me something, but for some reason i always wanted to just politely turn them down. i don't want them ot spend money on me, i don't want them to feel like i'm asking them...i was just very uncomfortable of the idea of them spending money on me. yesterday i figured it out though. when i was growing up, we were given all kinds of things and experiences but the money spent on us was like used against us. it was brought up later when a favor was wanted. "what about all these things i've done for you? why are you so selfish and just take without giving anything back? you don't appreciate me at all do you..." i even feel guilty for writing that..... children aren't supposed to pay their parents back for all that they do for them--right? maybe i'm wrong? i'm still learning what "normal" families do and look like. anyway, i realized that i don't want to be expected something back from me later. i know this person wouldn't do that, but i guess that's what i've learned happens: people do nice things for you, spend money/time/energy on you and then they expect some retribution, some compensation, some control over you in return.
so yeah, it seems dumb and obvious looking at it now, but i guess i was pretty excited about it and just wanted to share it.
Joyful, that's a great realization! Yes, strings attached to every kind deed get hard to navigate. So, you are naturally suspicious, testing to see where that string is and how bad it'll be if pulled. Most people can trust their gut that if something seems to good to be true, it probably is. Well, not all of us. Some of us have thresholds that are way too high or way too low.
Normal families don't do that to each other. Normal families consider gifts one-way transactions where the 'payback' for the giver is the joy on the receiver's face.
Consider it this way: A healthy Dad gives his healthy daughter, age 8, a new bicycle. She learns to ride, gets good at it and by age 9, she's moved on to basketball. She'll still ride the bike sometimes. Healthy Dad asks daughter one day if she'd like to donate the bike to a needy kid who'll use it. Healthy daughter laughs, admits she doesn't use the bike much anymore and agrees. They load up the bike and donate it. Both feel good with and about each other. No discussion of how little she rode the thing, no talk of the money spent on that bike.
If this person is close enough to be willing to give a gift big enough to concern you, I hope that person is close enough to discuss this with. Not the whole deal, just that you find it hard not to look for strings attached and could this person reassure you, please, that there are indeed no strings. I don't know if this helps, but I hope so.
That is a super good idea! i definitely could talk to the person about it, i honestly hadn't thought of that before. thank you so much for that story, that helped me understand. in my case if i stopped using the bike it would be taken as an insult to the giver...which isn't true.
thank you again
I haven't been on here in a while, but it's definitely good to be back.
Today's just been a little flashback-y and I want to talk about it, but at the same time the fear and shame is stopping me.
(this is probably going to be very triggering) it's probably going to shut me down for the rest of the day, but I gotta write it.
This past little while I've been just realizing slowly all the things that were WRONG with my childhood that I never realized before. One thing that has been on my mind more than others is one thing that happened, I was probably eleven or twelve. I was in a restaurant with my family...dang this isn't easy...I was sitting across the table from my dad. He told me to come over by him so I stood up and walked around the table to next to where he was sitting. He told me he was going to "measure my spine" (does this confuse anyone else?) Ok, one more time this is about to be triggering.
He put his thumbs like on my shoulder blades and his hands wrapped around my rib cage so his fingers were on my chest. It feels so wrong to me, almost repulsive. I'm sorry. I don't know if that's completely inappropriate.. I was at that time, you know, my chest was starting to not be flat. (My mom didn't give me a bra til very late in high school. another reason of shame. I made do with wearing several tank tops.) I was so uncomfortable. At the time I believed him, I didn't think anything was wrong. I thought he was just "measuring my spine", but was holding back tears as I sat back down. Sometimes I still wonder if I'm just overly sensitive... It's hard to believe he had malicious intent, maybe if anyone reads this they'll wonder why I've made such a big deal of it. If that is the case, I'm sorry.
As I think about this event now I am so filled with shame. I don't know what he was meaning to do or why my spine needed measuring. He probably would deny even doing this. It wouldn't be the first time he's lied in that way......
I blocked this from my mind for many years.
I guess it's been good to give it some air but now I am pretty triggered and non functional.
I'm sorry again for posting this. If you've read the whole thing, thank you.
:hug: :hug: This is your journal, you can type here whatever helps you - even if it's lancing a painful wound.
It doesn't matter if you were being 'too' sensitive. It's how you felt and that makes it valid. Period. He made you feel icky (for lack of a better word). It doesn't even matter if his motives were pure as fresh snow, he made you feel icky and it almost made you cry. Those are your feelings. You're allowed to feel them and you're allowed to express them. Especially here, in your journal!
I'm so sorry this happened to you - at a critical time when a girl needs to know she can trust her Dad. HE broke your trust. I'm so very sorry.
What your dad did sounds like a major boundary violation, imo. And in a restaurant! So now add public humiliation to the list - this would have shamed and threatened me too, I don't believe it was a little thing or that you are "too sensitive" (that's just how they trained us so that we were easier to control). Hugs to you.
Thank you Wife2 and Three Roses. Thank you for validating me and my experience. I always find it amazing that this is one of the places where I feel most safe and supported. Thank you both again
:hug:
(triggers.......)
I finally told someone all that I know about my "stuff"!! This was a huge step for me.
Lately a lot of things have been becoming clearer. Realizing things that I've always known and dealt with aren't just "me", they're a result of trauma and abuse. Things that have always been triggering to me, but I didn't know they were triggering me, that type of thing. Body memories that I've always had, but never recognized. It all started to fit together for me a little bit. I still don't know how old I was, or who it was, but I think I know generally what happened. I thought I was going to spell it out, but now I'm having second thoughts...
anyway, on Tuesday I was with a close friend and had had a rough morning. The night before the rough morning I'd tried to write the disjointed and confused memories and the triggers and stuff. the morning after that my gag reflex was going crazy. I felt constantly like I was choking and I was gagging for a few minutes. (it felt like forever though!) so I was pretty down when I was with my friend. They noticed i kept tugging at the collar of my sweatshirt (and that I was kind of having a breakdown...) I made a vague comment and then everything came out. I told them about all the 'memories" and the triggers and just spilled out EVERYTHING. I was crying really hard, which I usually can't do. They were actually supportive and caring and didn't judge me or leave me because I disgusted them. It was excruciating, but also I feel like a step, maybe just a teeny tiny one, towards healing. I got the poison out. It's not trapped inside me as much. It's still there for sure, but now I have someone else that knows that's outside of me telling me i'm not crazy or insane. Because I constantly feel that way.
I feel like I'm obsessed with finding out the true nature of my sexual abuse. I know some things, I think I have pretty good guesses about other things, and then some things I might never know. So I'm sorry like all my posts lately have been related to SA somehow, it's kinda been what I'm trying to work through...
I've been pretty down the past few days, feeling shame and "low" self worth. (more like non-existent self worth!) But it's not isolated anymore. And that feels good.
:bighug:
One day you'll be able to hear your own words and know that you are innocent. You committed no crime. Even the reactions you're not proud of are a result of what you survived. But, you, Joyful, you are innocent. It's ok to hold your chin up. It'll take practice, for sure. Even if you don't remember it all, you don't have to apologize for SA trigger warnings. That is what your survived and that is what you're dealing with.
Yes, having some of the poison spill out of you is good. Yes, finding out that you ARE WORTHY of validation and being believed and tears for the past pains is new. I would love to say it gets easier from here - I don't know if that's really true. I do know that it's OK to be a mess some days. It's OK to wonder how you get the other side where healing is. You're still a good person. You're just a sad, confused AND WORTHY good person. The sad and confused don't have to define the essential YOU. They are a part of what you are going through, not who you are. Just like the SA is part of what you went through, not who you are.
Now that some of the poison is gone, don't be surprised if anger finds her way into your life. When the reality of what has happened and what you had to do for yourself to survive sinks in, anger is often the best healer out there. Be careful, though anger unleashed can be dangerous. If anger visits you, try to find safe outlets for it. Write volumes or paint or hit pillows - whatever works for YOU. Because this is YOUR life, only YOU get to decide what works for you.
I'm glad you feel a little less under the brick heap since opening up to your friend. Expect a little awkwardness on your next few visits - often when a friend finds out the depth of pain we've been through, they're not sure how to process it. They also tend to over-compensate when they don't know how to respond. Try to have a little understanding and tell your friend what you're comfortable talking about more and what you'd rather leave to that day for now. It'll help a lot with future conversations.
:bighug:
Wife2 You are so wise! Thank you so much for that reply, it was exactly what I needed to hear. Would it be alright with you if I copied it into my own personal journal? It was really really what I needed.
And yeah, anger has already started to creep in...and anger is not a feeling I feel very often. Probably cuz I've shut it down to protect myself, idk.
I have a hard time not feeling bad about telling this to my friend, it feels like a lot to push on to someone.
I'm feeling pretty sad and not functional right now...I feel like I *have* to be happy and strong, but I think I also have every right to mourn and grieve and be sad...I think. Maybe not?
I'm so honored that you want to copy my post! Of course you may! I'm just so glad that I was able to help.
I did know about the anger because I've been where you're going with that. It is better on the other side - and the friendship is still intact! Now, it's my turn to support her as she and her family go through some things. Ah, the yin & yang of relationships. :)
I am completely losing it right now. I can't hold still or stop shaking. Every little noise is making me jump. I can't handle having people talk to me or look at me. Ugh I just need to go somewhere quiet but no that's not really an option right now. So I hold in all my discomfort and losing it-Ness and yeah.
I am so uncomfortable and just needed to get this out.
Keep breathing. This is a major emotional flashback. Is there any way to hide away in a bathroom stall for a bit? Tell your boss you need a minute and slide away to your car? Any way to get a bit of privacy?
You are safe. You have already survived this. You will be fine. Keep breathing, try to make them slow, deep breaths.
This will pass and you WILL feel normal again.
Wow that was fast thank you Wife 2. I probably will do that... :spooked:
Ugh. This whole week has been pretty much awful. I feel like I've just been in one giant flashback, coming in waves. Today has been extra bad. But so was yesterday. :fallingbricks: I just feel so cynical and cold and hard right now. I'm trying so hard not to totally withdraw from everything and everyone in life. But it's really hard cuz I really just feel so done.
I could go into details about all the stuff that's aggravating me (and i'm pretty sure i have every right to be more than aggravated...not sure how healthy that is though...) but i won't.
i have this like irrational fear that my F will find me on here and i'll be *in trouble* for all the terrible things i've accused him of...I feel so dumb, but sometimes I'll have a mini panic attack after posting something that could be revealing.
anyway, this was mostly just me venting my nonsense in a vague and unclear way.
:fallingbricks:
Sorry you're having such a rough week :hug:
I have so much on my mind right now. I don't want to spam all of the boards with all my posts so I'll just dump it here.
So to start. I feel so constantly dissociated. I always feel detached from my body. It makes me feel insane.
Maybe this has an effect on the next thing, i have no idea. but I always feel unsafe with/in my body. It's like i'm triggered by my own body, which is weird and probably not the right way to describe it. There are days though when I'll look at myself and feel...scared? sometimes I make my skin crawl? I don't know how to describe it at all. I constantly want to just curl up inside myself and be invisible. maybe the dissociation comes from the fear/disgust/unsafe-ness? maybe i feel unsafe because i don't feel attached to myself or my surroundings?
I have no idea. I feel pretty much insane.
I'm not really sure why, but i feel like the only real times I get on here are when I'm feeling awful and just need dump it.
and I'm feeling awful right now.
Earlier today in the cafeteria of my university I lost something that was a gift from my BF. My first instinct is to be like "that's really sad, but there's nothing I can really do." But it was important to me, so I looked everywhere, retraced my steps AND...I even worked up the courage to go ask lost and found. Which i NEVER EVER do. So the lady working there was kinda annoyed at me (at least it seemed like it) and somehow her word choice seemed threatening to me. Maybe cuz she called me sweetheart (in like the tone you'd say it to a really small child who's being annoying) and I'm in college. I know that I shouldn't be scared by that, but it just made everything worse. Made me feel so much more helpless. She said she hadn't seen it. So that's when I started crying. I kept retracing my steps and eventually called my boyfriend in tears. LOL. I felt really dumb, first for losing it, then for crying about it. Ugh. He wasn't upset, he told me it was totally ok, I wasn't *in trouble*, he wasn't mad, it wasn't the end of the world or our relationship. So I spent the next hour feeling like a five year old, then i got myself some food and i feel a little calmer now.
It was kinda weird to watch myself overreact so much. I technically knew that it wasn't a huge deal, that he wouldn't be mad or even sad, but I was really scared that he would be. Because in my FOO, losing an expensive gift was like a betrayal (i can't think of the right word) of the relationship and could be shamed for the rest of forever. Or even losing anything at all. Plus throw in crying about it? shame shame shame. i don't know what else i'm going to say here, i just ran out of words.
sooo....yeah...
:hug:
I struggle with boundaries.
I can't set them because I'm afraid of hurting people. So I give wholly of myself and never say no, but I also expect the same from others. It makes me sad. When people tell me they need space from me and my issues (they don't say that though) for a little, I go along with it because i technically understand. I know full well that I am a handful. So I understand when people need a break, but it still hurts really, super bad.
Pete Walker talked a little bit about how when we're young (under 2 i think) we need to be shown unconditional love from our parents, no matter what we do. But if that need isn't met during that developmental stage, we continue to have a strong need for unconditional love through the rest of our life. this hit me so hard when i read it. i knew i need to show myself that love, but i honestly don't know how. So i go around expecting everyone to give me the unconditional love that i did not receive early in life. which isn't fair to them, at all--i understand that.
I just feel super needy and demanding, requiring unconditional love from others and then being hurt when they reasonably cannot give it to me. the thing is i know that they have every right to have space from me when they need it, i'm surprised they can be around me as much as they do! but i still hurt and feel abandoned when they have to step back.
and i feel like my F. requiring people's endless loyalty and devotion. i mean, in my defense, i don't actually get mad at people or punish them when they pull away, i just hurt and vent inside myself. He punishes and manipulates you into giving up the boundary. this is why i'm afraid to reach out after someone's asked for space. i completely pull away because i don't want them to see everything i say as trying to manipulate them into coming back. that is not my intention (at least consciously :-\) I just want them to know i'm not mad. i guess pulling away could be seen as manipulating them back too...silent treatment is F's favorite...
UUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH why is this so hard??????
i guess the only way to fix it is to show myself that unconditional love. that is so hard though. i literally don't even know where or how to start doing that...
anyway, enough for now.
This is one I'm experiencing through my son. I'm having to show him unconditional love in a very real, tangible way. He knows it, but this week, he's had to FEEL it as well - long story, I posted elsewhere.
Being fresh in the language of unconditional love, it kind of goes like this: No matter WHAT you do, WHAT you say, WHAT you succeed at, WHAT you fail at, no matter any of that - I will and do love you very, very much. I may get angry, I may even be disappointed, but that doesn't stop the very deep love I feel for you, will ALWAYS feel for you. Yes, there may be consequences for bad behavior. Yes, there may be quiet times when I need to not speak for a bit. Those are for teaching - you that authority must be respected and obeyed when what they ask is not harmful or illegal, me that speaking while angry is hurtful. When I can speak and not be angry, the first thing out of my mouth will be that reminder that I love you. Yesterday, today, tomorrow, forever. NOTHING will change how much I love you.
Is there a way that you can 'love-speak' to yourself? Post it in an email that you can open up and read often? Speak to a mirror? Have a doll or stuffed animal, or actual living pet that can be the surrogate for your inner child? It's going to feel strange and fake at first. Your inner child is going to take some convincing.
I will admit that hugging my child while I told him this, and being hugged back, was very healing to that lonely place inside myself. I hope you can find that comfort, that sincere comfort, for yourself.
Thank you Wife2. You are definitely right that my inner child is going to take some convincing...and that it will feel fake at first. I'll try and keep going through that, it's always stopped me before. I've never made it past the initial hesitation and disbelief. I will keep trying though.
yesterday i realized (because a close friend pointed it out to me) that my F could go to jail for what he's done and is doing. at first i was like, wait...what??? that is really what my life was and is? i'm not just making up hurts for no reason? it really is that bad to someone besides me? it was kind of a hard realization... they were trying to tell me that what's happening is legitimately bad and wrong, not just mean. i don't know. i guess i kind of looked at everything that has happened/is happening in a different way. i want to just shut down and blow everything off and just be really sad for myself, but i feel like i can't. i won't let myself. which is fine i guess, i can wait til i'm ready. i don't have a lot of words right now, i just needed to get that out.
Joyful - that hesitation is normal.
For now, hold tight. Your emotions may well fly all over the place for a while with this realization fresh in your mind. Center yourself in some way (favorite song, best friend), whatever you can to keep something that will remain stable, around you, consistently comforting you. We'll be here for you while this sinks in.
When you feel you can safely talk more about it, return to us. We'll be here to be sounding boards for you if needed. Please know that all of us here care about you and want the best for you.
:hug: Thank you Wife2 :hug:
I am so down right now. i feel so stuck. I only use this journal to dump all my negativity that no one else understands! Sorry everyone...
Yesterday I realized something. In my college psychology class last week we learned about observational learning. It hit me really hard that we can't do anything that we haven't either been taught or seen someone else do. It explained and kinda cleared up a lot of things about my SA. it's not even possible that I could have known the things that I did from a young age. It was validating i guess, but also sad.
switching topics. (trigger)
last night i *** again for the first time since october. i was so sad and upset and hurting. it was building up inside me. I was hurting so much. i don't know all the way why. but i was just dissociated and detached from it. i feel so dumb for it, it wasn't even bad, but just the fact that i couldn't access and healthily express my hurt. i couldn't get to the pain inside me so i recreated it outside. I feel a little stronger today, but not much. i won't do it again, i won't do anything else, but i really want to just take the day off and "practice self-care" which i feel like i don't even know how to do! I just want to like quit all of life and do nothing. which i know isn't probably the most healthy thing either, so i don't. I get super needy and clingy and feel like i'm annoying everyone around me (even though they say i'm not).
oh i don't know. i don't know what i'm trying to say here. i had more stuff i wanted to thaw out, but i forgot what it was now. this feels so depressing. i wish i could cry. i feel like i've turned off my tear ducts. my eyes will sting, but tears never come, 99% of the time. a good cry would probably be helpful right now. i can't keep going on pretending to be normal and fine but i'm screaming inside. i am not fine. i'm tired of pretending like i am for the sake of everyone around me who can't understand. ugh this rant. i'm sorry to whoever reads this.
i always feel like i'm talking in circles here. i make no sense, i'm just going on pretty much complaining. i just am sooooooooooo down and sad right now and i'm sorry for letting it out here. i guess i'll be done venting for now. :fallingbricks: :fallingbricks:
:hug:
This is a good place for venting! I'm sorry to hear you're going thru a rough spot - I wish there was something more I could do but all u have are cyber hugs :hug: :hug:
Btw, I thought your post made perfect sense. Hang on, my friend!
Just got an earful of guilt tripping, shaming, manipulation, and generally crazy making. Luckily by now I know enough that I can recognize these attacks for what they are, but it still hurts. I know I haven't said very much ever about my abuse, I've never gone into a lot of detail. I still am living with my abuser, so healing feels close to impossible. I have a very deep fear that he somehow will find me here and recognize me and my story and then I will be *in trouble*. That prevents me from saying a lot of what I need. I try and journal as much as I can privately, but even then guilt stops me. I hate that I can't even talk about the awful things that have happened to me because I don't want to hurt the feelings of the person who abused me!
Anyway, that wasn't really what I wanted to talk about. Like I said, this morning I got a serious bashing (emotional). I know that I don't actually have anything to be ashamed of, that he's projecting his own faults onto me, but I still cry and feel ashamed. I wish I could say something, how it isn't my problem or my fault, I shouldn't have to be ashamed for myself.
And now I'm hurting pretty bad. Hopefully I can make it through the rest of the day.
:fallingbricks:
This makes me sad for you. I've lived that reality also. But let me tell you that you are worthy of being treated well; and not just treated well, but you are worthy of being thought of kindly. You are worthy of being spoken to with respect. You are human, and imperfect, just like everyone else. You can have flaws and still be treated well.
I hope you can shake off the verbal crap that was dumped on you and have a better day. :hug:
Joyful, I know your intellect understands that what was said isn't true, but the heart often wonders. So, to counter what may have been said, let me spill a little truth back into your heart.
What you are is: Beautiful, thoughtful, considerate, intelligent, intuitive, brave, strong, survivor, wholly worthy of deep and abiding love, appreciative, honest (when you can afford to be).
These are the attributes that are true. These are what everyone, without an agenda, sees in you. This is closer to your authentic you than anything spoken this morning.
:') Thank you Wife2 and Three Roses. Wife2, thank you for seeing those things in me.
The lame thing is, now he pretends like nothing ever happened. Everyone is supposed to go back to normal. And he wonders why I go quiet and withdraw...
At least this time my younger sister is starting to get that this is wrong and not normal. That is a HUGE step. My family seems oblivious. Every one of us is hurting so deeply, but none of us are allowed ot acknowledge it, so it gets buried and festers. I wish I could tell them what I see, that their hurts are valid, that many of the things they are ashamed of are a result of their trauma, not a personality flaw. I wish so much I could tell them. But they are still fully on F's team. (except for sister who seems to be realizing...slowly and quietly...) We can't show him anything but total devotion and respect. Which frankly I don't think he deserves either from us. (argh there goes some guilt...) The thing is if anyone treated him the way he treats us, he would outraged. And rightly so, no one should be treated this way. But he can't see that he's doing it to us. And hurting us so deeply in the process. I hope that one day we can all escape and heal together instead of everyone hating me for "breaking up the family" ... ... ...
Of course that's how he's acting. He's punched his emotional reset button. In his world, everything IS back to normal. Now, if any of you try to bring it up, YOU are the ones with the problem, HE's fine!
Consider the cycle like this. There is a boiler in the basement. Over the course of a regular period - like 3-4 months, pressure builds up in the boiler. SOMEONE has to go down there and bleed off the pressure or it will explode all over the house. Nobody wants to, so it ends up falling to whomever can't ignore the problem longer than the rest. That unfortunate soul has to go down there and bleed the pressure. EVERY time someone does that, they get hurt. Somewhere between minor to major steam burns - it never fails. So, you go bleed the steam. You've tried to protect yourself as best you can, but sure enough - steam burn (belittling)! OUCH. <cuss words>.
So, the boiler (Narc Dad) is now fine. Until the next time. The steam has escaped, he's no longer over-pressurized. The fact that you got hurt is honestly NOT connected in his mind. He's as aware as the boiler is. He's happily relieved and functioning JUST fine. You, on the other hand, are not only hurting from this latest damage, you're checking the old scars from times past and dreading the next time - hoping someone else will handle it and feeling guilty because you know handling it means pain.
The worst part is that you don't even have the safety to talk about all the past hurts with family members, because to do so would be 'disloyal'.
Can I tell you something? My brother, sister and I used to stay up nights one summer and talk. We would talk about all kinds of things, but Mom and her 'ways' would often come up. We'd peek over our shoulders to be sure she wasn't listening. We'd laugh and tell stories of things that had happened to each of us (I was youngest, so not taken so seriously, still I was included). We realized the insanity of it all. We knew each others' stories well enough that, in the midst of new things happening, my brother could raise an eyebrow and appear to hide a smirk and sis and I would LOSE it in laughter. That was ALL the validation we needed to know that we were not alone and that the situation was absolutely insane. We might still have to tolerate the situation, but at least we knew it was obviously crazy and we were OK thinking it was crazy.
If this is an option, could you and your sister, who is starting to wake up, slip away for some girl time? Just the two of you. If you feel safe and you sense that she feels safe, do you think you two could talk about it? To know that you sisters have at least ONE ally in the family? To maybe figure out ways to validate each other? A special knock on the bedroom door to say, 'Hey, I saw/heard that - it was wrong - I'm sorry it happened - you are not alone.' Or a knock that says, 'It happened again - I need my sister right now, please.' Something to help you both know that you're not alone. If not, that's understandable. Any negative word about your father could be more disloyalty than either of you can handle right now. That's OK, too. You are both survivors in a situation that is beyond what most people could understand.
Just know we are here for you and want to help you and care about how you are doing.
Thank you Wife2. I want to try doing something like that, but I am afraid of "endangering" her. And frankly me too... But your description of the boiler made a lot of sense to me. I've given up trying to read his mind, it is fully beyond my comprehension.
This weekend was just horror after horror. I can't stay there anymore. I think he truly is sorry, but not sorry enough to change. He doesn't realize that his words may have finally pushed me over the edge and out of his life forever. I don't want to punish him. I don't want to be cruel. I need to stand up for myself and protect my boundary, but he's "sorry" so now I have to forget the awful, awful things that happened. :fallingbricks:
When do you think you'll be able to break free and get on your own? You're right in that your situation is so much tougher than anything I faced.
No, Joyful, nobody thinks you want to punish him. You simply don't want to be in the line of verbal (or other) fire when he's blasting away. And, you don't want family to hurt either. But, you can't just make it stop, unfortunately.
You don't have to forget. Write it all down here. You may be a world-class actress, though, pretending all is well. I do wish you had more or better options and could make that getaway. :hug:
QuoteWhen do you think you'll be able to break free and get on your own?
Oh...unless I want to just run away and move in with a friend (which isn't ideal, unfortunately)...probably summer or fall... *sigh*
Now he's pretty much giving me the silent treatment :doh: :stars: except when he wants to remind me of something he's done for me...........
BUT...this time I'm not going to give in and beg back. I'm not going to go asking for forgiveness so he'll talk to me again. Although, from past experience, if I don't react to silent treatment he just blows up again. No one shall ignore him! :thumbdown: If you don't react to one tactic, he switches. Whatever he has to do to reel you back in.
*another sigh*
Ok, Joyful, it's time to work on some coping skills. I highly recommend boundaries and gray rock or medium chill. Pandora's box has already been opened, closing now won't work. BUT, it's also an opportunity for you to begin enforcing a new way he must deal with you. I don't know details, as that is your wisest, safest choice. I hope you can find some way to continue standing up for yourself and also remain safe.
Knowing what you know now, what do you think you can safely do until you can gain your freedom? You can't un-see what you've seen now that your FOG is beginning to lift. But, not being able to move out appropriately until Summer at earliest can make these next few months very difficult. I want to help, but I don't want to suggest anything that would make your life harder, or life for your siblings harder after you do leave.
So, just know we're here, supporting you in whatever you decide is best for your situation. :hug:
Wife2 thank you for your caring and thoughtful responses. it always amazes me how people here, that I really don't know and really don't know me, can be so supportive and caring.
I just got hired for a full time job starting may 1. So that will get me out of the house for a significant portion of the day, Then I will also be able to afford moving out without much help. the less help they give me, the less things they can hold over my head. That is what drives me the craziest. Remember all these things we did for you? And you treat us like this? Standing up for myself isn't something I should be shamed for, I'm almost positive i'm not doing anything THAT wrong...
I feel like I'm at that place where I'm starting to grieve my childhood. The realizations are starting to sink in. My dad loves me inasmuch as he can control me and I fulfill HIS needs, make him look good etc. he does things for us to make himself look better, to keep up the "perfect family" facade. ugh. it's a very slow and tentative grieving. Sometimes it will hit me and I'll get sad for a minute, but i don't let myself be down for too long. Even with these realizations I still doubt myself. Maybe it isn't that bad. Maybe I provoked it. Usually when these thoughts creep in i slap myself upside the head (figuratively), but sometimes...I still sometimes believe it.
I had something I was going to say here, but I got distracted and forgot what it was...
Joyful,
You're right to worry that their help is to keep strings on you. Strings of obligation and debt to them. The more you can refuse their help, the better for you in the long run. If the help was given (key word GIVEN) out of parental love and concern, you'd never hear about it again. Otherwise, it's a loan, and payment WITH INTEREST will be expected. If not in money, then in time, dedication, 'loyalty' - I hate that, its misused by so many abusers, or whatever else the parent wants at the moment they want it from you.
Congratulations on getting the upcoming job! HURRAY, JOYFUL!
Quoteit's a loan, and payment WITH INTEREST will be expected. If not in money, then in time, dedication, 'loyalty'
Oh my gosh yes. I hate it too.
The extra hard thing is even when I refuse, they at least OFFERED... I'm indebted that they THOUGHT about me. Not to mention all the years they fed me, clothed me, drove me to school, paid for school...PAYBACK IS EXPECTED FOR EVERYTHING THEY'VE EVER DONE FOR ME!!!!!
I get guilted for having my own opinion, standing up for myself with "look at all the things we've always done for you, and this is how you treat us?" oh my gosh. i just got surprisingly angry at that... :blowup: I'm pretty sure that I should not be indebted to my parents for FEEDING ME. I get that a degree of respect is earned because they did bring me into the world and keep me alive, but respect and ... I don't even know the word...subjugation? Obliteration of self? ugh... Because they made sure I survived and was clothed, I've given up my right to my own life and owe my entire life to them?!?!? Pretty sure that's not how it's supposed to work, but what do I know? Wow, i don't get "angry" very much, fight response has been extinguished out of me... but I'm like exploding right now. And that's ok right? Un-extinguishing my fight response? In a hopefully healthy way?
:blowup: :blowup: :blowup: :blowup:
Yup, it's okay to feel what you feel, and to know what you know. It's the only way you can deal with it all. How can you change what you don't or won't see? ;)
Well I feel a little calmer today. Not exploding with anger anymore...
Yesterday I did something that was kinda cool. I've been doing a lot of journaling recently, but instead of just dumping everything (like I do here lol) I've been using different prompts to kinda guide my writing and it helps a lot. Thinking in certain directions (or in any direction!) is a good change.
So last night the prompt I was working on one that said to write your story in third person. I didn't expect it to be so helpful or meaningful, but it really was. Somehow using "she" instead of "I" I was able to grieve more. it's hard to write about yourself without minimizing or dissociating or telling yourself to "stop feeling sorry for yourself". Even though feeling sorry and being sad for yourself are so essential, our inner critics often don't let us. Writing my story although it happened to someone else, I could step back and realize wow, that's so sad. That's so sad that someone had to go through that. Then I bring myself back and realize that it was me.
I haven't finished it yet, but it was very cleansing. I'm trying to decide if I want to post it in here once it's done... inner critic is saying no, but we'll see what happens.
So yesterday I was at church. I've spoken to my religious leader about the garbage in my home. He was understnding and sympathetic and wants to help. except...he contacted the religious leader that is over my parents who then contacted my mom. :stars: I was pretty worried and concerned. I know they mean well and are trying to protect me and my siblings, but calling F on his abuse is going to put all of us in danger, without a doubt. So i talked to my leader later and asked him to tell the other guy to NOT talk to my dad about ANYTHING. My mom can and will keep it a secret that it was mentioned to her. But yesterday I was having SOOOO much anxiety that they were going to talk to F and that life would get a million times worse for me because I "told". It was terrifying. But I got home and nothing was wrong, no one talked to my dad, giant sigh of relief. i don't know, I realized that maybe I need to be more careful and specify to people to NOT get involved. I know they want to help, but "helping" is only gonna cause more pain. The real way to help is give my siblings (and me i guess) legit reasons to be out of the house more often. In a way that it's not obvious that's what they're doing. i don't know, I'll probably just stop now
Oh, Joyful. :hug: Sadly, if you don't want things getting back to your father, you really may have to keep this inside for now. There are so many 'mandatory reporting' laws now that if someone suspects strongly that abuse has happened, they MUST report. I'm so sorry this is your reality.
I wish I had answers, proper, legal and safe answers! For now, all I can do is say I care and I hope this works to YOUR best safety. :hug:
Joyful, I've just been reading your journal and I'm so sorry about what has all happened to you, and that you are still living in the thick of it.
When I was reading about the spine-measuring and your feelings about it, of course your F's behaviour wasn't at all appropriate. Sounds like SA to me.
Just wanted to say that. And that I can relate. I'm still pretty enmeshed myself so don't feel I can really help you the way wife#2 and 3Roses are.
Wife2--
That probably is smartest and safest for now. It's hard, and not cuz I want revenge or anything, I just want people to understand me and why I am the way I am. i don't know.. I really should put a lid on it, at least irl... I'm super grateful to be able to come and let off steam here though! especially when people really understand
Blueberry--
Thank you for your support :hug: it really means so much to be heard and understood. I'm sorry that you are still enmeshed also :( it is such a battle.
As far as SA goes, other things have happened too. I just don't know if it was him too. I only have small fragments of memories. Maybe some day I'll get them out here, but i'm not strong enough yet.
Anyway, thank you both for reading and for your support :hug:
:hug:
I have read your journal joyful. I am so sorry you are currently in the midst of things. You are brave for facing these demons and coming on here and posting. I understand about scant memories, I am working on recovering those myself. I hope you can get your independence soon and pull away from that unhealthy dynamic. So glad you are doing it at this age. Those of us that are older, we let it go on too long. You have already pulled things into your awareness and are on your way out. :hug:
:hug: to you too Wife 2
Thank you jd :hug: I hope that you can also recover and heal from your repressed memories. *hopefully* (unless something goes very very wrong which is entirely possible) I should be living on campus by fall. At which point I hope to go as LC as possible, because healing while still stuck in it and just getting more hurts piled on everyday really slows the process.
Thank you both for caring about me :hug:
I have things to flush out today, but am not feeling strong enough at the moment. I will come back later. (writing the commitment to come back helps me.) I want to write the stuff but can't right this second
I know I said I was gonna come back yesterday, but by now most of what was on my mind then has passed and been replaced by new stuff that's weighing on my mind more. So now I'll write about that.
I can't decide whether to put this here or under sexual abuse where more people will see it, but I'm not too sure about it yet, so I'll put it here.
**tw**
Yesterday I got triggered by my own body. Just like seeing myself brought feelings of shame and revulsion. That's not a new thing for me, I'll just have weeks where it's bad and happens a lot, and others where I'll be fine. but yesterday when it happened something else came up, something i did when I was younger.
Between the age of like 6 or 7 and 10 or 11 I was like (i can't think of the right word...) Seductive? I wanted attention for my body. In third grade. I wanted to be "sexy" i wanted to show off and for people to see me like that. :blink: I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that's not normal. I didn't do anything like super inappropriate, but I did things that were kind of inappropriate. (Man there is a tight ball of shame around this). I used to dance a lot and be quite flexible. I went to a private school where we had to wear skirts. I'd stretch and do things that exposed my entire leg :fallingbricks: in a place where everyone could see me :fallingbricks: and how flexible I was and what good legs I had.
I can't believe myself! I am so embarrassed for how uncomfortable I must have made everyone. I don't know if this behavior was a result of sexual abuse? If i thought that that would make people like me and pay attention to me? (I was EXTREMELY anti-social and like unhealthily introverted... I guess i still am, but I think it's more healthy now)
And what confuses me is i'm not like this AT ALL anymore. Something changed from me thinking i was pretty hot stuff when I was little to now cringing whenever I get looked at and hating my body and feeling disgusted and ashamed of it.
I'm pretty emotionally detached as I write this...
I can still feel shame coming through the cracks. Intense shame.
Maybe that is normal and I'm freaking out over nothing, but I have no idea. Maybe I'm just making a big deal over nothing.
I don't know. I'm getting kinda mad at my inner child for this behavior. I'm trying to tell myself that yeah i am accountable for those things, but they came from hurts and I wouldn't have acted that way if my history had been different. It's not working really. :fallingbricks:
Joyful, I think what you were doing may have been just for simple attention. Normal stuff by kids who want to be seen as someone special, worth paying attention to. Of course, you wanted to be seen! To be liked. To be part of the group, yet also special somehow. THAT IS COMPLETELY NORMAL. At both ages!
As a little girl, you wouldn't have been capable of really understanding seduction. Not as an adult would. It would have been about attention, the only way you knew. Plus, as a little girl, it would have seemed pretty cool that you could make your body move in ways most girls couldn't - you were built for gymnastics!
As a pre-teen, you may have understood seduction, but most girls that age are just starting to understand flirting, making boys blush. There is power in that, and while girls are learning that they CAN use their bodies to get reactions from others, they (we) seem to do it in spurts, because they would still be learning. Just as the boys were learning that they had more strength than girls and enjoyed showing off.
To me, the biggest tell that these episodes were more about showing off, getting attention and normal kid development is that you didn't keep with the seductress attitude. And, in my opinion, that shame may have been a growing awareness of just how 'wrong' your childhood may have been. Which means you don't own that shame - your father does. Your mother does. Not you. YOU didn't shape your childhood family dynamics. YOU didn't come up with sexual ideas before age 13 without it coming from SOMEWHERE. Whoever didn't protect your childhood innocence, THAT is the owner of the shame.
Of course, that's real easy for me to say and almost impossible for you to convince yourself. I know. Still, I stand by the reality that you don't deserve that shame. You deserve anger instead - anger that the people who were supposed to protect you didn't. Shame on them. :hug: for you!
thanks Wife2 :hug: Thank you for that reminder and helping me to see reality (can't think of the right way to say that)
This really stood out to me:
QuoteYOU didn't come up with sexual ideas before age 13 without it coming from SOMEWHERE. Whoever didn't protect your childhood innocence, THAT is the owner of the shame.
*Giant exhale*
That is a SUPER important realization for me.
(triggers ahead!!!)When I was eight I had what I now consider like a flashback. I was being orally raped (in the flashback). I was eight, and it's not like that's just something eight year olds imagine (i really hope..) it was complete with like feeling it in my mouth. lots of fear, but then a TON of shame that I had just thought that.
Now i realize that people can't know things unless they either are taught it or observe it. Which at least is comforting in the sense that I didn't have a "dirty mind". It was an awful flashback that I really couldn't control.
another giant exhale.
that was hard to write...
You are right. No 8-year-old could even conceive of such a thing. It just wouldn't be on his or her 'radar' so to speak. Even if it had been put on the radar by seeing inappropriate things, the sensations that were part of that make it seem as if it was a real memory of a real action committed against you.
Are you OK now? That was a hard flashback. It sounded as if you were back there completely for a while. You're safe as a person right now, but are you ok?
I care a lot about you! I think you are an amazing person, very strong and self-aware. It's just so wrong that your childhood was stolen from you!
Please be careful at home and stay as safe as you can. I'll be sending good, safe, healing thoughts to you!
Joyful, standing right beside you, if that's not too close, as you go through this. 8 year olds don't just imagine that out of the blue. :hug: :hug: as you relive this, remember and talk about it.
I can relate to your feelings of shame about the other, because I feel ashamed of things I did as a child too. But, as wife#2 says, we're feeling the shame that belonged to somebody else! In your case your F. In my case my M, and in a wider sense (non SA) my M and B1. They were continually ashamed of me, my very existence and I'm still projecting that onto little Blueberries, still ashamed and unforgiving of how I was as a child in various different ways and situations. I believe that people who grew up in healthier environments can look back at the way they were as a child and feel love, empathy, affection and possibly more along that line, whereas we feel shame. It's not our shame. But I'm not over it yet either.
Thank you Wife2 and Blueberry. :hug: You are both so kind
It was a hard flashback, one that I've been dealing with for a while now but was just brave enough to post about. I had a midterm i had to take that day, which kept me in something kinda like the present enough to focus.
Blueberry I'm so sorry for what you have gone through also :hug: I hope that we can get over and rightfully attribute that shame eventually :hug:
Sooooooooooooo...last night i was really sad and angry at all the things that have been taken away from me. even to the point where I don't think i have a personality, just like a codependent robot. I was trying to just let myself be upset and grieve the things I lost, the things taken away from me. I think I did an alright job of feeling it and working through it (still working through it) I realized I don't have to grieve all the losses right now, jsut as they come up and I can start with the little things. I can mourn all of the activities I missed out on, that's not too hard.
But the thing is: F is trying to take away my job!!! :aaauuugh: Hearing him say how he really just wants me to come on vacations with them this summer and how family time is most important sent me into a full on EF. i felt so threatened, and i'm so afraid i'll just be like oh ok, whatever, i don't care. I'm so afraid i'll be weak and let him take that too. He just wants little joyful that he can control and manipulate forever. He will cry his manipulative tears. I'm so upset. He talked to me about it and how he would 'rather i didn't work' and "he'll just keep paying for everything' and not to tell my mom about it, he'd talk to her. (probably cuz if i talked to her he wouldn't be able to manipulate her to his side......)
it's making me so upset and scared. i can't let him make me quit, but i'm so afraid i'll jsut act in the way i've been trained to.
i'm sorry this is so incoherent, i'm really not in a good place right now. I'm pretty flashback-ed plus my body aches and i'm getting a migraine :fallingbricks: ugh
I know I just barely posted, but this is all i'm capable of right now, so i'm back. i might not even post this, i might just end up deleting the whole thing depending on how it turns out.
i was doing alright yesterday, i was willing ot do the work necessary for healing, i was willing ot be patient wiht myself. but then. my sibs and i got a load of brainwashing about how we have so much to be grateful for how we have no reason to be anything but happy. a few years ago (shoot, even last year!) i wouldn't have thought much of this talk, but last night it set me off so bad.
(this is gonna be pretty much a rant, so feel free to stop reading here)
It's all just extinguisghing our fight responses and feeding our inner critics. the more we are taught that we have no reason to be anything but happy the harder it is for us to heal, because from what i understand, healing means feeling the emotions that resulted from the trauma so you can process and slowly move forward. but those are not happy emotions. they're sad and angry. I can't even get myself to say that i feel "angry", it feels like a swear word. sure, we've always had a house and food and gone to school, but it's all the little things in between. making us feel guilty for bothering F with our hunger or our desire to be on time to class. blaming us for the cost of school. telling us that everything in your life is our fault when really it's the other way around. plus innumberable other things i can't even count. subtle things, that are hard to realize the terrible damage they do. when i first realized i was being abused it was hard to see the manipulation, the gaslighting and all the other crazy making, but now i see it in every interaction. everything is about how we are wrong, he is right. we are less. we are dependent. we are so lucky. (i know that we are lucky, and I am grateful that we live comfortably, but using our comfortable living situation to guilt us out of our emotions is not ok) we can never do anything right. we're stupid, he is smart, we need him to save us and help us. He has our lives perfectly planned out so that we can continue paying homage to him forever. and then we're so ungrateful and bratty and mean if we decide we want to do something normal like move out when we start college or...anything. Nothing I do will ever be right for him. He loves me inasmuch as i fulfill his vision for me, his needs. MY needs mean nothing. my desires, my dreams...all nothing.
i'm terrified i'll slip back into the cycle. he'll offer up that i can just keep living at home in the fall, how he'd love to spend just one more year wiht me. it's the same thing as work that i jsut posted about. fawn response will take over and i'll be trapped forever. i'm trying not to feel hopeless, but it's really hard.
i'm feeling so overwhelmed, everything around me seems so noisy.
Sorry for posting again, just needed to let off more steam. I think i'm done for now.
Standing right beside you :hug:
I'm glad that you could at least let off some steam. You're going through so much realisation at the moment. For myself I find that really difficult, sometimes even worse than memories floating up. Might just be me though for whom it's worse.
However things turn out, we're here for you! Even if you're swept back into your family's 'antics', as many of us e.g. me have been, even that is not 'forever'. We do get out of the bad place eventually, and then out of the bad cycles you can get into even when you're no longer living with FOO.
I wish you good luck and a whole load of strength for resisting your F's manipulation.
Keep posting if you need it, that's what we're here for and that's what this board is for.
Thank you Blueberry :hug:
it's definitely been one of those weeks...but i'm feeling alright at the moment.
will post more later when i can get my thoughts in order
Joyful, I just read your journal. First have all of the hugs :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: you want, and know that I care very much about you and your experiences. I can relate to a lot of them actually. It was people that were close to me that sexually abused me. Like your father, they liked to do things like that publicly. As a child that is something that is life altering because as least for me it meant I wasn't safe anywhere. I am really sorry you had to go through it. Know that your feelings on it are valid and important.
Don't worry about some of the things you did as a child. Needing attention is normal, I did some similar things and it took me a long time to know it was normal at that age anyways. I find that maybe we are a bit more prone to it because someone has introduced a sexual layer of life to us that someone so young should never have.
Know I am hear for you, and am glad you are finding such courage to write as you continue to go through this journey
Thank you Elphanigh :hug:
QuoteI find that maybe we are a bit more prone to it because someone has introduced a sexual layer of life to us that someone so young should never have.
I agree. I see it in my younger sister also, it makes me wonder what has happened to her :'(
Thank you for caring about me and validating me :hug:
Quote from: joyful on April 17, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
QuoteI find that maybe we are a bit more prone to it because someone has introduced a sexual layer of life to us that someone so young should never have.
I agree. I see it in my younger sister also, it makes me wonder what has happened to her :'(
:yeahthat:
:hug: to you Joyful.
Joyful, I am sorry you are seeing that in your sister. It can just be a normal thing so hopefully it does not mean anything bad has happened. Biggest and warmest of hugs :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: I do truly care, and am so glad I can help in anyway