My relational history is so convoluted: raised by 2 personality disordered parents, sibs messed up, bullied and excluded at school, two PD ex-husbands. Now I'm single and middle-aged and I feel very lonely. It's hard to "get out there" when most social venues are so loud and over-stimulating. It's also hard to feel close to "normal" people who aren't dealing with Cptsd - my life is so small and sheltered compared to theirs - can't exactly share the victories of coming out of EFs and continuing to get better bit by bit. I feel like I'm an alien - on a foreign planet yet I need to connect - to feel close to people - or at least to someone who will spend time with me on a consistent basis.
Sometimes I feel apathy and deep despair - I've led such a lonely life. I got away from the crazy people early on, but it's left me with no one more often than not. I think that a person can only provide so much to one's self: I have been my own mother, father, sister, brother, lover, therapist and doctor because the ones I've had were so toxic and/or incompetent.
I don't fit into any groups - I'm not an addict, etc. I feel like I need what I didn't get as a child: attention, love, touch, validation, loving interaction. Sometimes I feel like the orphan in the crib that's given up on ever being picked up. Don't mean to sound so dramatic but since my divorce 3 years ago I feel very lonely indeed. Most people hang out in families/couples. Singles generally struggle, I know. But to add Cptsd into the mix makes it even harder and more painful. :'(
Sending a hug, Rr :hug:
It is hard. It is painful. I'm sorry you are so very lonely, Rrecovery. Sending you a :hug: ...I understand.
It is not who you are, but what you were put through. There is hope, fellow traveler. Small steps out there.
Thank you for your lovely and caring feedback Rain. It's helpful :hug:
I was sad to hear all that, Rrecovery. Sorry, I'm too dehydrated to be really coherent right now, but I didn't want to wait. This might not help much, since we're all just pixels to each other basically, but you're not totally alone? Here on OOTS, we can be alone together, sometimes.
Though, I hear you about real life struggles. It's a little similar for me - I'm living a sheltered, "small" kind of life with narrow boundaries, because I was triggered almost daily about ten years ago and had to find some way of stopping this. It's like you said - people chat breezily about "oh, I went on holiday to South America" or "I might get promoted at work" or "I've found a job", and then there's jobless little me scratching my head and trying to think of news to share. "Hm... maybe: 'Found a new way of dealing with EFs'?... No. 'Right shoe is starting to look scuffed but is too comfy to throw away...?' No. 'General and/or specific complaints about my FOO'...? No. 'I feel obliged to clean my living room floor but can't really see the point...?'"
I even started looking up "how to find friends" on google. It always says to "go out and meet people"... :sadno:
Sometimes it says "find a hobby that lets you meet people..." :sadno:
Sometimes it says: "be genuine and honest, and share about your life" or something like that... :sadno:
In my country (the G-word one in Central Europe), there's a support group for children of mentally ill parents. Is there something like that where you live? Probably a stupid question, because I assume that there isn't, since, if there was one, you'd probably know of it already and be part of it etc, but just in case...?
Rrecovery:
I remember that I felt this way. I was single for a very long time. It is a dark ache.
My suggestion is to get out, go out. CPTSD does not define us. It is but one part of us. Once we meet folks we can trust, it's easier to let the story of our struggles leak slowly out. I've also found allies - most folks launch from dysfunctional unfortunately. Some never hear the story. There are several levels of trust and friendship. Some folks never advance that deeply with me.
I do not know where you are, but have you heard of meetup.com? They have groups for every kind of interest. Just one suggestion.
Thank you for your replies, I feel understood and cared about :hug:
Yes, being single, for me, is a "dark ache." I survived my life by always having that "one" person, a best friend, or a lover who was my lifeline to humanity. The times when I did not have this one person, like that past 3 years, have always been excruciating for me. I barely recognize myself, I'm such a desperate puddle of need, when in general I'm strong and resilient. I keep wondering - is this something that can be fixed inside of me? Or am I truly starved for love and friendship i.e. help can ONLY come from another person? It feels that way - and that's scarey as *. Can we be all things to ourselves or is there a point in which we are in true need of closeness with another person?
I wish I wasn't so damned introverted. Being part of a group does so little for me and is draining on top. I'm looking for that one on one connection which is hard to find unless you put yourself out there where the groups meet (meetup is a great tool for this). I find myself doing the online dating thing to make one on one connections - but that's such hostile territory - I feel fairly beat up from it :stars:
It matters to me, a lot, to have this place and all of you lovely good-hearted fellow travelers - thank you!!!
Small steps, indeed - I believe that we advance when we set our selves up for causes for celebration!
I recently took a four session writing class, because it was a non-sharing class. I am glad it was only four weeks, because by the end, there was a LOT of pressure to share! But for me, it was a huge stretch simply to go. A reason to celebrate. Inspiration for the next step. I went, I didn't embarrass myself, I did not spontaneously combust. I did not get past my SA and felt very intimidated at times, but I learned some things.
I didn't make any friends because I am not outgoing around strangers, but there was something rewarding simply being around creative energy. I believe around the right people, we can gain something even if we choose not to say a word.
I think it's really all about those small steps - and small is just a relative term. Those steps are your steps and unless someone's walking in your shoes they don't know how much effort those steps take. The important thing is to go at your pace Rrecovery and love yourself along the way.
Some things that I've internalized that help me are to recognize there is no such thing as wasted time - there is only now, and how we choose to live right now is our choice alone. It also helps me to believe that I am not the only one who feels the way I feel, that even in my most isolated and lonely times, there is someone else out there, feeling just as isolated and lonely, and my sympathy turns inward and I try to feel psychically connected to that energy that I feel connects us all. Psychically, not physically - my senses overwhelm me. But whatever you believe, the point is we're not alone - and I'm glad this forum is a thing we can all share and use to support one another in these times.
Celebrate the steps, all the steps. Acknowledge the effort and be kind to yourself. And if anxiety and agoraphobia make it hard to connect to others in person (they do for me too right now - as I hide under my covers far longer than I should be today), comfort yourself - recognize that as an opportunity to love yourself and remind yourself you are okay. We often look for love and affection and affirmation from others, especially when we're having trouble affirming our own sense of self worth. You are perfect as you are. You are worthy of love as you are. :hug:
:wave: your posts could have been made by me ! :blink: I so understand
Big hugs. And no advice because I'm in the same boat 46 and nobody wants to go out with me cause they all have family's
Hi Mizmia,
Thank you for your words. I'm sorry we are both in this boat :( Our culture revolves around spouses/partners and children, if you have neither it can get pretty lonely. Sometimes I feel very alone in my loneliness. Thank you for reaching out. :hug:
Wow, I can relate to all of this so much. I live a very lonely life too, find it really hard to get out there. I feel like I don't fit in with others my age, who have professional jobs, partners, friends, go out every weekend......I have none of these things. I spend a huge amount of time doing therapy or self-help things, or just trying to get through the day.......not much to talk about! I don't want to talk about my illness to people, so I feel I don't know how to 'explain' myself and my small little life.
However things have slowly gotten better for me. I agree that just being around people in a group that is safe, even if you don't contribute much is helpful - I've been to a couple of therapy-type groups like this and it slowly helps build your trust in people and reduce you anxieties.
I've managed to regularly go to a book group held at the library - it's ideal because it's a small group, in a quiet space, and we just talk about the book and don't have to talk about ourselves. I'm still full of anxiety when I go and it was hard at first, but after persisting so long the anxiety has slowly reduced and I feel I have started to make connections.
I think for even non-introverted or anxious types it takes time to build up relationships, so I try to be patient, and also I have stayed in the same place for nearly two years (I used to move all the time).
Unfortunately I can't use my old strategy of getting completely wasted in order to talk to people - it makes me way too depressed, and more vulnerable to predatory types. So it's good that I gave up booze, but it does make talking to people harder.
Big yes for celebrating every little achievement -they all matter, they all build up over time to bigger achievements.
Hi Zenfox,
Thanks for sharing. My heart goes out to you in your loneliness and suffering. I'm glad things are getting better. I used to have social anxiety too. It helped a lot to attend bookclubs with their ready-made things to talk about. I also attended yoga classes and meditation groups just to be with others without the pressure of smalltalk. I have overcome my social anxiety, I hope yours gets better too. I'm glad you're hear. :hug:
Rr...how did you beat SA? I had severe SA as a kid, am about 80% there now.
I work on it by pushing myself into uncomfortable situations. Sometimes I fail, most times I advance.
I am interested in your "cure".
Thanks!
Hi Globetrotter,
There were several facets to my recovery. Reading, "Conversationally Speaking," was a huge help. It spells out the nuances of the "stages" of getting to know someone - the nuts and bolts of conversation. I also studied and practiced assertiveness techniques so I could feel confident protecting myself if someone decided to act like a jerk. I also took the test and studied my Myers-Briggs personality type. I studied and practiced meditation and mindfulness and used it during social times. Also, I realized that most people felt a little uncomfortable around me because they could sense I was "not okay" i.e. it wasn't "me" that wasn't compelling enough, but my inner "not okayness" (that I did my best to mask) and as I calmed that down people would feel more comfortable around me. Then there's good old fashioned cognitive restructuring and exposure therapy - CBT. Lot's of layers. I can still have moments of discomfort, but they are rare these days. I wish you well in your recovery.
Rr :)
Lots of layers, indeed!
"Also, I realized that most people felt a little uncomfortable around me because they could sense I was "not okay" i.e. it wasn't "me" that wasn't compelling enough, but my inner "not okayness" (that I did my best to mask) and as I calmed that down people would feel more comfortable around me. " This is very familiar.
I puzzle myself, as I roll along just dandy, then *bang* out of the blue, something/one makes me feel wonky, for why, I do not know. I have wondered if there is something going on subliminally that is triggering me (voice, smell, the color red???) Or, maybe not!
Thank you for taking the time to spell out all of these steps. It is no small task!
Rrecovery,
I'm glad we are both here.
:hug:
I struggle with loneliness too. Even though I am in a relationship, we are both "loners" and my SA is actually getting worse. I literally have to force myself to leave the house.
Some context: I'm about to turn 47 and never had kids, and 99.9% certain I won't with menopause breathing down my neck. My bf, who I've been with for 3 years, is 35 and also never had kids, and his family lives elsewhere. My mom and any family I might be close to live 1400 miles away, and my one close friend (who I have been gradually pushing away just like everybody else) is getting ready to move 1100 miles the other direction. We are not religious, so the one place where many find meaningful connections is just not there.
I really don't like the fact that we don't have friends to hang out with. I think it probably puts too much pressure on the relationship to be everything for both of us, too.
I was thinking about getting the book you mentioned, "Conversationally Speaking" but does it have instructions how to go beyond the initial step? I mean, I actually am fine whenever I do get around people, usually. I can talk to anyone, even strangers on the airplane, and always have entertaining conversations. That initial connection I am great at! ...But I systematically sabotage any chance of continuing the friendship in any way. For example, I met a promising business contact at a networking event, and we even connected on LinkedIn afterward and exchanged a couple of messages about getting together for lunch to continue our discussion. It freaked me out so bad that I never replied to actually nail down a time and place, and just like thousands before, the connection died before it had any chance to become anything else.
It's destroying my career. I'm a consultant and have been unemployed for almost a year. Exactly because I have no network of connections, even after living in this city for 15 years.
I sure can relate, voiceless!! Hang in there.
Thanks, Rain. :)
It's not difficult at all for me to think of topics I'd love to pursue... but no matter what, even my favorite thing in the world cannot make me want to go out THERE. It's so comfy in here. So much to read, so much to do, right here inside this room. I really think growing up completely isolated and alone made me equate aloneness with comfort. Loneliness became just a minor annoyance compared to everything else.
So, my loneliness is both circumstantial and self-inflicted. How can I possibly win? :-\
Hi Voice,
Thank you so much for sharing. I am also competent at smalltalk but not so great at the next step. When one's nervous system is so overloaded it is hard to make the decision to intentionally expose it to more (possibly uncomfortable) stimulation. I hear you enjoy staying in for the most part. I used to. But I've gotten to the point where being alone is just overwhelmingly painful. I hate it. But it is motivating me to forge ahead and try to make some meaningful connections.
I am an athlete and that has been getting me out. But I just tore the cartilage in my knee so now EVEN THAT social outlet is gone. It's got me in a terrible depression. I just signed up for group therapy as a social outlet :stars:
It's not "just" the cptsd. I'm also an INFP. We are a minority as far as personality types and are usually uninterested in mainstream common interests. When I go to most gatherings I feel totally drained listening to discussions about the "usual." My interests are so unconventional most people cannot relate or sustain any interest level. On top of that I work evenings so most classes I'd be interested in happen when I'm working :stars:
So many layers of difficulty. So I've been trying online dating to find the "one" I can hole up with.
I have no advice, just complaints. But it HELPS to share this. Thank you so much :hug:
I'm INFP also, R.
I am so sorry on your torn cartilage! :sad2:
:hug:
Thank you Rain :wave: INFP cool - and a challenging configuration to be - wouldn't you agree? :hug:
I do agree, R! It IS in a loud world, at least here in the States.
Have you read Susan Cain's Quiet, by chance? It is about the strength of introversion. New York Times bestseller.
:phoot: An INFP party highlight.
Hi Rain,
You are assuming a correlation between INFP and HSP then? I agree. I'd love to see some statistical analysis on the subject. "Quiet" keeps popping up as a recommendation; thanks, think I'll check it out. :hug:
Quote from: Rain on November 26, 2014, 11:16:35 PM
I do agree, R! It IS in a loud world, at least here in the States.
Have you read Susan Cain's Quiet, by chance? It is about the strength of introversion. New York Times bestseller.
:phoot: An INFP party highlight.
I just bought the Kindle version of this for $2.99. I read the little self-assessment in the preview, and I answered all but one absolutely YES, so yeah I am definitely an introvert. :yes:
I totally empathize with some aspects of this experience. Breakups and singlehood are particularly hard for us with CPTSD because we have no FOO to go back to and our chosen family has fallen apart. This was how my life was for many years between the breakup of my seven year-long college relationship and meeting my husband. I'd meet someone I liked a lot (either as a friend or a lover), latch on, and then be bitterly disappointed and feel suicidal when they couldn't give me all of the nurturing and support I desperately needed and had never gotten in my FOO.
I got a lot of therapy, had a couple of breakdowns, got on some medication, and slowly rebuilt my life. My breakthrough came right around the time I met my husband. It might be politically incorrect to say that meeting him changed a lot for me, but he's been a really positive influence in my life. He managed to lean in as a friend and give me a hand in rebuilding my life without trying to rescue me or get over involved; and in the process of building a mutually supportive friendship, we fell in love. It's the healthiest, sanest relationship I've ever known and has been so healing for me.
I don't want to promise that your situation will look exactly like mine, but try not to give up hope. The future is full of possibility for change and loneliness now doesn't necessarily mean that you will feel lonely forever.
:hug:
Thank you Milarepa! I often fall into the false thinking that loneliness is forever when this may very well just be "a" time in my life.
I often feel like I should wait until I'm whole to seek a relationship - but with Cptsd that day will never come - even though I can continue to become more whole. I'm glad you found someone and have a healthy relationship - even while you were still healing. :hug:
Quote from: Milarepa on December 01, 2014, 06:03:23 AM
I totally empathize with some aspects of this experience. Breakups and singlehood are particularly hard for us with CPTSD because we have no FOO to go back to and our chosen family has fallen apart. This was how my life was for many years between the breakup of my seven year-long college relationship and meeting my husband. I'd meet someone I liked a lot (either as a friend or a lover), latch on, and then be bitterly disappointed and feel suicidal when they couldn't give me all of the nurturing and support I desperately needed and had never gotten in my FOO.
I got a lot of therapy, had a couple of breakdowns, got on some medication, and slowly rebuilt my life. My breakthrough came right around the time I met my husband. It might be politically incorrect to say that meeting him changed a lot for me, but he's been a really positive influence in my life. He managed to lean in as a friend and give me a hand in rebuilding my life without trying to rescue me or get over involved; and in the process of building a mutually supportive friendship, we fell in love. It's the healthiest, sanest relationship I've ever known and has been so healing for me.
I don't want to promise that your situation will look exactly like mine, but try not to give up hope. The future is full of possibility for change and loneliness now doesn't necessarily mean that you will feel lonely forever.
:hug:
Milarepa,
WOW your experience is SOOO similar to mine! Nobody has ever been able to understand why dating is so hard for me. I am notorious for 2 to 4 week relationships that leave me more devastated than someone going through a divorce after being married for 20 years.
I moved 1400 miles away with a boyfriend 15 years ago, and chose to stay here after leaving him, as I had no desire to return to FOO. I have a distinct pattern of staying in an abusive relationship for several years, long after any feelings I may have had are gone, then I get fed up and leave, and fall victim to a string of predatory narcists that crush my soul until I'm ready to latch onto the next illusion of stability. The last predator left me suicidal, because the pain was exponentially worse than any before, and it seemed like I was doomed to continue the pattern. I felt like that 3 year old abandoned little girl, alone in a strange city, without a friend in the world.
I don't know, to be completely honest, if my current relationship is healthy or not. It's definitely better than any previous, but that isn't really saying much. I see some narcistic traits in him, and he is emotionally distant most of the time, but even with his problems, he is MUCH better than any previous men I have had in my life. And he is taking care of me now, which is more than anybody has ever done. But I stay with him because I do love him, and I also don't trust myself yet to be alone and single without attracting a bunch of vultures again.
Quote from: Rrecovery on December 01, 2014, 02:54:13 PM
I often feel like I should wait until I'm whole to seek a relationship - but with Cptsd that day will never come - even though I can continue to become more whole. I'm glad you found someone and have a healthy relationship - even while you were still healing. :hug:
You and me both! :-)
If it helps, the thing that distinguished that relationship from others I'd had at that point is that he had impeccable boundaries and I was able to learn a lot about what those looked like from imitating how he set his; and he made it very easy to respect his boundaries because he set them with a sort of benevolent attitude that made it easier for me to self-soothe. It was like healthy relationship boundaries training wheels. I neither anticipated his imminent abandonment with a sense of doom nor latched onto him, desperate for a savior. I didn't have a whole lot figured out at that point, but it didn't seem to matter.
I think the moral of the story is that you do not have to be in perfect, or even in great shape, when you meet someone who is really right for you. You just have to be open hearted and willing to grow.
Quote from: voicelessagony2 on December 01, 2014, 06:33:18 PM
I don't know, to be completely honest, if my current relationship is healthy or not. It's definitely better than any previous, but that isn't really saying much. I see some narcistic traits in him, and he is emotionally distant most of the time, but even with his problems, he is MUCH better than any previous men I have had in my life. And he is taking care of me now, which is more than anybody has ever done. But I stay with him because I do love him, and I also don't trust myself yet to be alone and single without attracting a bunch of vultures again.
Are relationships ever *completely* healthy? No, because nobody is ever completely healthy. Relationships that are largely healthy grow from their imperfections. My husband and I both have some narcissistic traits, so we both have that to work on, but self-awareness is more than half the battle.
Does your SO have an awareness of his narcissistic traits? What about his emotional distance? Is he willing to work on those things?
I have never used the term "narcistic" with him, I think he would probably get defensive about that label - heck, so would I! But he has some general awareness about personality disorders, and claims that he used to have issues, but not any more. I have asked him to read Pete Walker's book, and he said he would, and I hope he keeps his promise because I saw a lot of him in there when I was reading it. I think he tends toward the "Fight" response, where I am the freeze/fawn type.
What I have learned about both of us recently, is that the really bad fights we have had, we were both having EFs. He gets triggered either at work or on his way home, and arrives in a state of "fight," which immediately triggers me because I can't deal with anger/control. So our conflicts have been coming from our unconscious triggered states, obviously that's a recipe for disaster.
We haven't had any conflicts since I've learned about triggers and EFs, but I'm sure they are inevitable. I hope I will be able to use some objectivity, knowing what I know now. :yes:
I seem to have experienced a significant shift. The pervasive feeling of overwhelming loneliness is gone! I believe I have been experiencing a flashback from a profoundly alone time in my life - plus traumatic grief - and it lasted 17 months! The one thing about grief - if you feel it, allow it - it does eventually come to an end. I am no longer on the online dating sites. I am now enjoying my own company again - and the sweet rest of solitude. My nervous system is exhausted.
I want to thank all of you for nurturing me when I needed it most - when I thought I'd lose my mind from loneliness. As a wise person I know says - love is everywhere- don't confine it to one person. When my heart is open I know this to be true.
Rr :hug:
Heeeeey! That's great to hear! :waveline: :cheer: :waveline: Encouraging, too. All the best for you, Rrecovery. :hug:
Quote from: Rrecovery on December 18, 2014, 02:48:48 PM
I seem to have experienced a significant shift. The pervasive feeling of overwhelming loneliness is gone!
YES!!!! Most Excellent! :fireworks: :band: :fireworks:
Dear SC and Rain - thank you!!!!!! :hug:
Quote from: Rrecovery on December 18, 2014, 02:48:48 PM
I am no longer on the online dating sites. I am now enjoying my own company again - and the sweet rest of solitude. My nervous system is exhausted.
I want to thank all of you for nurturing me when I needed it most - when I thought I'd lose my mind from loneliness. As a wise person I know says - love is everywhere- don't confine it to one person. When my heart is open I know this to be true.
Rr :hug:
Rr ... :hug: I am so happy for you! Maybe there is hope for me, too. :yes:
Thank you VA :hug: I like the way we give hope to each other here.
Quote from: Rrecovery on December 18, 2014, 02:48:48 PM
I seem to have experienced a significant shift. The pervasive feeling of overwhelming loneliness is gone! I believe I have been experiencing a flashback from a profoundly alone time in my life - plus traumatic grief - and it lasted 17 months! The one thing about grief - if you feel it, allow it - it does eventually come to an end. I am no longer on the online dating sites. I am now enjoying my own company again - and the sweet rest of solitude. My nervous system is exhausted.
I want to thank all of you for nurturing me when I needed it most - when I thought I'd lose my mind from loneliness. As a wise person I know says - love is everywhere- don't confine it to one person. When my heart is open I know this to be true.
Rr :hug:
That is awesome news! It's so hard to see your way out of an EF when you're in the middle of it. I'm glad you found your way. :hug:
Thank you M :hug:
:hug: :hug: :hug: to all who were/ are feeling alone.. one thing that helps me get through lonliness is a simple sayjng by Charlotte Brontës Jane Eyre.
"The more solitary, the more friendless, the more unsustained i am, the more i will respect myself"
Thanks for the quote Annegirl. Two weeks ago I got triggered and have been in another "traumatic loneliness" state. I notice that whenever I "start believing" that whatever needs to change/heal is within me - I feel better. But when my profound aloneness goes on too long (it has been ever since I injured my knees and can't rock-climb) or I get triggered by hearing about people's relational happiness/fulfillment - I go into an EF and stop believing that I can solve this within myself and start re-believing I need love from someone else - that's when I get into real trouble and, unfortunately, that's where I've been for two weeks now :'(
Part of what has triggered me is going out into the world (when I'm feeling good) and "looking" for all the love that's out there - only to notice that I am treated like I am invisible. Everyone is absorbed in their own world, glued to their smartphones, or absorbed in relating to the person they are with. I normally don't look at other people either - but I pushed myself to so I could see all the love out there in the world. Instead I got terribly triggered. I did this experiment about 5 times with the same result every time. Now I feel afraid to go out and look at people. What a mess! I'm in a worse depression than before, with less hope than ever. :stars:
I like what flookedelic wrote on a different thread:
"But the most important relationship in my life is the one I have with my traumatised brain. I have learned to see it as my wound and not my enemy and so live a life full of compassion and insight, even love towards all it's jumbled, pained and dissociative spasms."
I also suspect that as I start to slowly heal I am becoming more sensitive and feeling. My previous strategy was not to let myself care about relationships. Now I am afraid that if I truly care I will be defenseless to deal with the extreme sadness if the relationship ends.
Another observation is that when I am alone I always notice how many couples are out there and how happy they seem. Then when I am not alone I notice the people who are alone and seem content with themselves. I think my ICr tricks me that way.
I don't know if this helps you at all... just some of my musings about loneliness. But it is clear that OOTS folks are here for you! :hug:
Hey Rrecovery - I'm so sorry to hear you have been in a traumatic loneliness EF for the past two weeks :hug: I have definitely felt the same thing which I always found strange considering I do have been in a loving FOC for 25+ years. And by aching I mean this hole, this utterly lonely part of me that no-one or nothing ever seemed to touch. In truth I felt somewhat guilty about feeling such an aching loneliness when I do have a caring H and S.
I'm coming to see now through understanding CPTSD more that my loneliness was all about not having a loving caring relationship with me, my self. I have really tried to be more loving and compassionate towards my self and I must say that the feeling of loneliness is not as bad as it once was. When I would wake up or be falling asleep I would end up in this cold, gray and very bleak place and that's not happening as often or to the same degree. I don't know if any of this resonates with you, but I just thought I'd post in case you do find a nugget you can use ;D
PS - I came across a book the other day you might be interested in (I haven't read it) - it's called Healing Your Aloneness: Finding Love and Wholeness Through Your Inner Child By Margaret Paul, Erika J. Chopich
Hi again,
I don't know if this helps, but I remember having these feelings a lot more accompanied by a lot of fear and anxiety, when digging deeper, sitting with it, without trying to cover it with anything I discovered my underlying fear of death and the future. I started reading and discovering and exploring death. Something I found that maybe you have already researched is the science of the afterlife and Near Death Experiences. Finding out about all this was a pretty life changing point in my loneliness and depression journey.
Thank you all for your care and feedback. I keep wondering how much of this is inside me and how much is too much actual aloneness for any human being to tolerate. I can be with people plenty, but they are either not people I care to be with, or venues and activities I don't enjoy. I'm quite picky about the company I keep. I won't say too picky because I tolerated abusive/unhelpful/unenjoyable company for far too long. I don't accept sub-quality company anymore. I think I'm in-between "companies" no more sub-quality, but haven't cultivated enough quality company.
Yesterday I signed up for a year-long non-violent communication training/community-building program. It is my hope that this will yield some resonant connections and friendships with people who are capable and motivated to offer real listening, care and regard. I think it's a big step in the right direction. Also, for now, I'll be seeing my therapist twice a week to work on these issues and to avail myself of the social aspect of therapy - kind of a rent-a-friend, for now.
I'm an unusual case in that I have an excellent relationship with myself and virtually no IC - I rooted that bugger all the way out almost 20 years ago - and Inner-Child work was very helpful in doing so. I have a feeling 80% of the distress I feel is real - I have been very very isolated since my knee injury. I'm sure the actual aloneness triggers the trauma of growing up in a non-nurturing environment of emotional abandonment. That's probably where the panic is coming from.
Thank you so much for reading this and caring. It's meaningful and helpful to me :hug:
Hang in there Rrecovery, it sounds like you have your head screwed on relatively straight, so you have a lot going for you. I think we can all say we've been there where you are, with the profound loneliness. I have too, I'm 44 and don't have any friends but I still keep trying, just not at a fast pace. I do believe you've got to get out there as much as possible to meet the people who you click with, joining a hobby group or church or whatever floats your boat. Is there something else you can do besides rock climbing, if your knees won't allow you?
Hi Neenonee,
Along with the Cptsd I am also an HSP - highly sensitive person. My nervous system gets overwhelmed so easily. Most activities are just too loud for me. I'm also an introvert and so mindless superficial talking bores and annoys me. I'm also an INFP - not concrete at all - everything is feelings meaning and abstractions - most people don't think and communicate that way. There's nothing "wrong" with me and there's nothing wrong with conventional people - it just makes for a lot of incompatibility, it's so friggen complicated. I have stopped going to groups I don't enjoy (which is most) because it's not enough to just physically be with people if it is an unsatisfying and draining experience. For so many years I just wanted to fit in - with anybody. Then I learned how to fit in and realized I don't enjoy it. The rock-climbing was unique for me - I fit in and enjoyed that community - for the first time in my life. I also LOVE rock-climbing. I've been trying to be evolved in my reaction to losing the rock-climbing, but the more I think and talk about it - I'm truly devastated - beyond the beyond - and it's just sinking in that the physical therapy doesn't seem to be making enough of a difference. I know that eventually I'll need to try to find something else - I just can't imagine what :'(
Thank you to everyone who has read my words, read and contributed to this thread - it means a lot to me. :hug:
Rrecovery is such a great moniker for you as you do seem to be figuring things out despite the complexities and moving forward in recovery. I think it's wonderful that you are now choosing groups you want to belong to that nourish you in some way rather than simply to belong somewhere, anywhere.
I'm so sorry you may not be able to return to rock climbing and I do hope the new program you joined will help fill the void that has left. I just joined an African drumming class/troupe in the fall and it is a lovely, small group of people who are passionate, fun-loving and very welcoming. It does pings my SA (social anxiety) a bit but at the same time delights me so I am going to stick with it and hopefully the delight will win out ;D
Hi Kizzie,
Thank you for your kind, nourishing words :hug: The African drumming group sounds lovely; I hope it will be a blessing and that it will help to diminish the SA. Feeling relaxed and appreciated in a group can be a corrective therapeutic experience. I appreciate all you do for all of us Kizzie; I find you very loving and quite remarkable :hug:
Thanks for you kind words Rrecovery :hug:
I've been dating a really nice guy - he's so nurturing and understanding. He's a physician with a specialty. I've been trying to take the relationship lightly because he's looking for a job and with his specialty it's not easy to find a job and he's been looking locally and in other states. Also, he's agnostic and I really want to be with a spiritual guy. But he's been so kind and loving and nurturing and fun and good-hearted that he's really grown on me. Now I feel like I'm falling in love. He's pretty much exhausted the local hospitals so he's 99% sure his next position will require him to move away. :'( I feel traumatized now. I still have no friends who are available, plenty who never are. So, he's my entire social outlet. I'm forging ahead with groups and classes where I might find people to build friendships with, but as that hasn't happened yet, I feel devastated. I can hardly breathe, I'm having g.i. issues, my shoulders keep raising up, like I'm preparing for the big blow - the loss of our face-to-face time together. :'( Then I'll be alone again.
I guess it would be best to begin detaching now. I know how to do that. I have had to detach from everyone I've ever loved. :'(
I feel so devastated. For now, he's here and we can continue to get together and have wonderful times, closeness, affection, affirmation. Hard to say no to that as it's my only source. I've never been loved this well. But our times together are causing me to feel closer and more attached. I can't seem to feel close to someone without also feeling attached. And, for me, never seeing someone I'm attached to feels like a gnawing hunger and pain that's just torture.
But I'm the world's best detacher when I make up my mind. I know that's an option. Seems it always comes down to that sooner or later. I have no one in my life that abuses be and I have no one in my life (that's more than a phone, text, email friend).
I keep wondering, do I feel so lonely because I still have basic development work to do? Or is it because I'm so alone? I had to detach from my family, was bulllied/despised in school, made friends with drug addicts I eventually detached from, married a good man with Aspergers and just clung to him for 18 years until I couldn't take it anymore and divorced/detached from him. Now I'm alone. A life of relational trauma. I'm generally good at staying detached. When I attach I get get so hurt.
The weird thing is, I have a loving relationship with myself. I love and nurture myself every day. My IC has been ousted. I have an inner good parent/friend that I can always count on for support, wisdom and love. But it feels like it's not enough. It feels like I do need some minimal level of face-to-face, one-on-one, close human contact or I just ache in the center of my soul all the time. I wonder if when a person is totally healthy and whole if they don't ever need anybody else and feel just fine. If the problem is inside of me, that would be a good thing because I can definitely count on myself. But if I really do need others, that makes me feel anxious and traumatized because that never works out, always leads to pain and the need to detach.
I'm grateful to have this place to share about this. I feel so sad, down, anxious, such anguish and despair right now. Thank you for reading my sad words. I'm open to feedback.
All the hugs in the world, Rrecovery. :hug: :hug: :hug:
I could relate to several parts of your story. It's only recently dawned on me that most of my friendships have ended badly. Of the people I was fondest of, three died - which, given how few friends I have, is a startlingly high number. Of the rest, four people broke things off because I was in trouble and would have needed support, and my role before had been to support them. Then there was one friend who just became distant and stopped contacting me. The rest just petered out. Aaand... that's it.
So now, I'm living like a hermit crab. I know I've got to go and find friends. But a large part of my subconscious remembers my previous friendships and goes: "Find friends?! Are you nuts?!!"
So your questions about loneliness are more or less like my own questions about loneliness.
One thing I wonder: what do you think, this persistent, agonizing emotional pain about being lonely - is that about the present or is it a flashback? Or both?
Hi Cat and thank you for your reply :hug: Reading it yesterday helped me feel better and work went well. Having three good friends die does sound like a lot. Like you I've weeded out fair weather/ non-mutual friendships. There are different kinds of self-esteem: personal self-esteem, sexual self-esteem, social self-esteem. I have the first two but not so great on the social. I do well with people as in socializing, but cultivating and maintaining good friendships has not been my strong suit; I see my lack of good friends is "proof" of this. Yet I know that I'm a good friend, good person, a safe person, a fun person, a deep person, someone with much to offer. And it's also true that I am a traumatized person with sadness and disappointment very present within me. Perhaps this overrides all my good social qualities and makes connecting with healthy, available people very difficult. Yet, I know I must keep trying, even though I REALLY don't want to.
When I read your post I thought that if you, such a wonderful, bright, giving, caring person are in the same boat as me, then maybe I too have social value even though at 56 I have no close, available friends. Thank you Cat. Your post meant a great deal to me. Today, I feel sad but not depressed. I appreciate you :hug:
That was such a kind thing to say. Thanks, Rrecovery. :hug:
Hm, about why we don't have friends... in my country, we have a word for when you're afraid of entering into a new situation that's as yet unfamiliar to you and that might be a teensy bit challenging. It translates as "threshold-fear". So I have threshold-fear when it comes to getting to know new people, because I'm rather self-conscious a lot of times. The second threshold is when I get to the stage where we'd really become friends, or close friends. I'm afraid they'll realize how awful I am and leave. So during each of those stages, I'm probably withdrawing and detaching without even noticing it: simply because that's what I do when I'm nervous. And other people might interpret my nervousness and tension as resentment or something. I'm usually not even aware of it, but I look quite grim and grumpy when I'm feeling tense. A bit like Wednesday Addams, just even grumpier. So I can see how that might discourage people.
Yesterday I ended a "friendship" with someone who said they considered me their best friend. Two years ago, after my divorce I began struggling with a pretty profound depression. A big aspect was feeling so profoundly alone after 18 years of marriage. This "best friend" became MIA but continued to answer emails and texts in a way that made it seem like they'd love to see me but were just so busy... This has been going on for 2 years! I was feeling like if I ended the relationship I would feel more alone, like the idea that I had a friend was keeping me sane. I must be getting stronger because I decided that having this pseudo-"friend" was doing me more harm than good. So I emailed a kind but direct/honest break-up letter. They responded, and admitted to withdrawing from me for a couple of reasons (one being me not supporting their relationship with an abusive, narcissistic person) and said they should have communicated their feelings to me. Yeah, it would have been nice. I was a friend that had been "there" for them a great deal, until I realized they were a compulsive mooch and set boundaries around it. Maybe that's where things took a down turn.
I have this theory that in order to have people "you want" in your life, you have to say "no" to the people "you don't want." I keep identifying and setting boundaries with people I don't want in my life. I keep pursuing people I do want in my life (without success thus far). But I have to say, "go me," I appreciate my tenacity, sticking to my guns and persevering in the face of apparently terrible odds. If I have to go it alone, that's how it shall be. I'm good to myself, loving, fair - and we're very compatible :bigwink:
If any of this feels off feel free to set me straight, I take correction rather well.
Rr...sounds like this friendship turned into an empty shell and you've made the right choice if you ask me. Being honest and straightforward can be tough and you are a strong person for taking this road. There are loving and nurturing people out there though at times it seems they're hiding under bushes and rocks. Keep the faith. You will connect. We deserve to be picky.
Thank you Wingnut!!! So encouraging and affirming to hear ;D :hug:
Wow this thread resonates so much with me right now. I'm very much friend-less right now; although there are people I talk to regularly, I don't feel very close to any of them. I don't feel the desire to spend time with them at all.
Rr, like you, I have ended a friendship with someone who has been my "best friend" for years... I did not announce it like you did, I just stopped reaching out to her in any way to hang out like we used to. She has stopped as well, but she is moving away to another state soon and I guess it's a non-issue now. I just decided that I need better friendships, and I don't have the patience or energy to be in any more one-way arrangements. She does all the talking about subjects of her choosing, most of which is gossip about other people. I cannot talk about my issues without the invalidating dismissive "Oh everybody has trauma, you're no different than anybody else."
So, I am in the same situation as you and Cat. I have no friends, and I am struggling to find people that I have some important things in common with. I also feel that healthy, successful people would have no interest in me, and I would not know how to interact with them. I feel socially retarded, like my social abilities were stunted in childhood and I never learned how to connect with people in a healthy way.
One root cause of this I do know now. In addition to childhood neglect, I also had a best friend all through junior high and high school that the friendship ended permanently as a result of my indiscretion with a huge scandalous secret she told me, near the end of our last year of high school. I have never forgiven myself to this day.
So I also have a long trail of broken friendships behind me. I am now trying to learn how to pick better people and hang onto them.
BeHealthy Thank you so much for your wonderful encouragement. I do fear that this is will be a "forever" thing, nice to hear your perspective :hug:
Hi VA2, I can relate to feeling socially retarded, that's what my sibs and I say about our parents, and darn if they didn't teach us the worst ways to interact and "connect." I've spent many years developing social competence and overcoming social anxiety.
I hear that we are both done with inequitable/non-mutual "friendships" good for us both - you gotta start somewhere and saying "no" to unhealthy, unsatisfying friends is a start.
I hear your pain and self-judgment over your indiscretion :'( I hope you can forgive yourself. I hurt a lot of people with my social/relationally "retarded" ways; I was doing the best I could at the time. Looking back I have compassion for myself because I really wasn't capable of doing better, and that behavior wasn't "me" it was the early toxic programming that was imposed on me.
How brave are we to be a part of this forum? :applause: How brave are we to keep forging ahead with wanting to connect and taking risks? :applause: How fortunate are we to find this safe, nurturing place where new friends understand, resonate and encourage? :hug:
Quote from: Rrecovery on April 13, 2015, 01:16:09 PM
How brave are we to be a part of this forum? :applause: How brave are we to keep forging ahead with wanting to connect and taking risks? :applause: How fortunate are we to find this safe, nurturing place where new friends understand, resonate and encourage? :hug:
I love what you have written Rrecovery - we
are brave! Kudos for your courage and to everyone who has posted in this thread in trying to find a path to health and well-being. :hug:
I don't know if this is progress or a regression but I have decided to stop seeking after a relationship or friends. I sort of feel like I've given up. At the same time, I think that perhaps I need to focus on myself and do some more healing before pursuing relationships. Since I left my marriage I have been obsessed with finding a lover and making friends; just terrified of being alone and feeling so lonely. At the moment I don't feel lonely. I feel like I just want to do my own thing. I want to be free of the stress of trying to relate to people when inside I'm so sad. Both knees are disabled right now so I can't really do much and it's causing me to be very depressed. I'm just tired of faking my way through "being friendly" "meeting new people" and "dating." I'm an unhappy person who has no interest in Life. That's the truth and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
Perhaps this time really will be healing, because I'm focusing on myself instead of running from myself through desperate attempts to make friends. My intention is to try to reconnect more deeply with myself and try to attend to the issues, thoughts and beliefs that are causing me to be such an unhappy person. I'm still in therapy, and will continue to interact with my sister (who's in recovery). Maybe I just need to rest, less pressure. This is either a good thing or not; time will tell.
I hear what you're saying, Recovery. I also hate faking my way through being friendly. So I stopped. I said to myself, "Widdiful, enough is enough. People are going to enjoy the real you, or they are not going to be around you. As long as you're acting from a place of compassion, even if you hurt someone, it's okay. Accidents happen. You will learn."
I discovered that I actually am a rather friendly individual underneath it all. I genuinely take a deep interest in people. I feel closer to my friends than ever before, and they're around a lot more.
My advice is, do stop seeking, but don't isolate yourself. Friendships will form naturally if you simply talk to people. I think a lot of what gets in our way of truly knowing people is our expectation of them. If you go in with the goal of gaining a new friend, you're going to do what you can to further that goal, and that includes being fake-friendly (which, BTW, not to make you feel uncomfortable, but people like myself can smell that on a person from a mile away) if you think that's what it takes.
So go out there with the intention of getting to know people, not having those people fulfil a role in your life. Let go of your expectations. (Not your boundaries. Please don't confuse the two!) I think that you'll be a lot less lonely if you let go of your expectations of others, and let go of your expectations of yourself. It's hard, and it might feel like going backwards, but actually living up to expectations for a change feels really good. :hug:
WF, your post has had a significant impact. It all feels very true. I definitely do come from a place of desperation and hopeful expectation that any contact can possibly become a friend. And I'll bet it does come across as fake and uninteresting. I believe that if I can really begin to feel okay on my own I can let go of that desperation and - you're right, I need to be brave and bold enough to just be me and let the cards fall where they will. Really appreciate it :hug:
I know it's a really hard thing to do. I've been there myself. Best of luck to you, and many warm hugs. :hug:
Hi everyone - great thread and I don't mean to interrupt the momentum, but in keeping with our guidelines we lock a topic at five pages because it gets unwieldy after that and hard to wade through. I will set this as a "sticky" so that it's at the top of the forum and members can find it, and I would encourage you to start a "Feeling Lonely Part 2" if you'd like to carry on with this discussion.
Tks!