I am grateful that OOTS exists and that Im feeling safer here as the days go by.
***Trigger Warning***
A bit about me and my journey in recovery: It's important to me that i consistently edify my experiences and the paths and circles I've traveled in, especially as I age. Some of the messages both direct and indirect I received as a child were that I was stupid, homely, and would never amount to anything and I was told directly to never tell anyone about what had happened or I would be killed! I have uncovered some hard truths about my early life. My childhood was, until about 11-12 years old, filled with routine horrific acts of all kinds of violence and abuse. I understand this is not the place for specifics.
I had my last drink/drug on September 6, 1982 and have been blessed with continuous sobriety to this moment. Once sober I did not know what to do with my life, i knew i was unhappy and had routine thoughts of self-harm.
I stumbled through life for the next three years and ended up in AA as a result of being asked by my sister to come with her to a meeting, and I said yes!! Life has never been the same since! I started attending tons of meetings and getting into service work in AA, sponsoring people, got married, started a business, had a child and.... was just feeling hopeless about life on the inside. Outside I was the model recovering alcoholic on the inside just rotting to the core, brings me to tears now to think about how much pain I was in , all the time.
Fortunately I had a kind and loving sponsor that was also in ACOA.
In the fall of 1988 I vividly remember driving up the interstate one afternoon in a brand new vehicle at speeds exceeding 100 MPH and in a complete rage. Fortunately that was a one time occurrence and it scared me. so like a good AA i called my sponsor as soon as i got home. Over the next few weeks he suggested i go off to an in patient treatment facility for ACOA's. In those days the health insurance co's paid for that therapy so there was a 6 month waiting list , i waited and went in the spring of 1989. The week i spent there was pivotal in my surviving. It s is the week i started to have some recall about my childhood. I was 38 and could not remember anything before age 15, just the houses i lived in and that was enough for the therapists to start loving me back to life.
So in addition to AA, ACOA, OA, and ALANON ,individual therapy and group therapy became part of my recovery path and the circles I sat in and was so lovingly held by. This intense regimen lasted about 3 years and one day in group I announced I was healed and i exited. I stopped all outside help and focused on just 2 12-step groups. About a year went by and in 1993 thoughts of self harm or extinction where unrelenting. I called the therapist and went to see him. His suggestion was i attend a mens retreat that was being held the upcoming weekend, i went. Again this was life changing, i met a group of "safe " men that were dealing with al kinds of trauma. I started going to these retreats every 90 days for about 6 years and it was in the second retreat i stared to have flashbacks of childhood sexual abuse. So 30 years later i now convene these retreats twice a year and some times co-lead
them.
This is a lot so i'm going to stop now and will continue at some point in the next days.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to let you know me.
My Best
Steve M
Hi Steve M. I'm so glad you feel safe enough here to share. I am so sorry that you were forced to survive such horrific experiences but so happy that you have survived and are here.
Steve M, I just wanted to let you know that I read everything you wrote.
I can't imagine how sobriety must feel to you. It's horrible what you went through but it's so great that you managed to find a healthier way forward and have found a place to help others on their journey.
I'm glad you're here.
Steve, thank you for sharing your story. I feel sad for the abuse you suffered and proud of you for your sobriety. I'm glad that you have had some safe people in your life to walk with you on your journey.
Hi SteveM
Thank you for sharing you with us. I, too am so sorry you endured such horrific experiences in your life. I am so glad though that you found OOTS. Although I've been here for a short time I have found acceptance, encouragement, support and I am certain you will as well.
A warm welcome to you SteveM and if comfortable a safe, virtual hug to you. If not comfortable please disregard.
:hug:
Steve,
Thank you for sharing your story. It feels like you trust us enough to be open and that makes me feel good too. Being trusted.
Group sessions are terrific. I've been involved in many of them also. My healing from trauma however, didn't begin to take until 2005 when therapists started to understand trauma and stopped giving me cognitive behavioral tricks and shocks to "teach me how to stop acting crazy". From 1980 to 2004, I finished the textbook cures with several CBTs only to find that after two years I was more suicidal than if I'd never been "cured" by the narcissistic therapists of my past. CBT, to me, is little more than dog-training exercises. They used to call themselves "Behavior Modification Therapists", meaning they teach ways to behave sane...not to merge the trauma self with the real self.
From all you write, it sounds like you are on a good, steady road to recovery. That does my heart good.
Thank you for sharing, Steve, and for letting us accompany you on this part of your journey.
A bit about the Mens retreat I just finished.
*****Possible Triggers*****
I was away on retreat with 11 other men. The retreat is an intensive 3 days from Thursday eve until Sunday afternoon . I actually convene these gatherings and have for many years. This one is our second post-Covid gathering, many times I'm just the cat-herder but this time I was a participant. Once we have built a safe container, which is about 24 hours of getting to know each other and a bit about our personal stories. Each person gets time to do some deep individual work with the leader and it's witnessed by the rest of the group.
I have found that Knowing the truth about the details of my feelings at the time of my abuse has been very healing and freeing. Many times flashbacks and snapshots of the horror come with the feelings or sometimes it's the other way around flashbacks and then feelings.
This time I went to a place of whiteout terror from the severity of the abuse. Like many of us I was threatened with death if I "ever told anyone ". In my work this time I was able to tell the leader what was happening in the flashback, as he held me in his arms with my face buried in his chest. I was so ashamed and embarrassed I was able to stutter and stammered the graphics of my horror to him in a whisper. The very important piece here for me this last weekend is that I TOLD SOMEONE AND I WAS NOT HARMED!!!
Now I have told you that horrible stuff happened and I will not be harmed!
🙏
Steve M
:hug:
That's really important SteveM.
So very important SteveM - you will not be harmed.
This feels like a very big step towards the opposite of harm - healing.
:hug:
I'd love some feedback:
Today my wife and I are headed down to see my sister, it's about a 2 hour drive, easy commute.
She is not well, nearing the end of her life , she is on dialysis and tiring of that routine. I expect today we will have some hard discussions. I'm torn about asking her a few questions about our shared family history and also her personal experiences in our family system. Needless to say it was a f....... Nightmare!
I have regret, from years ago, not asking my Dad some pretty pointed questions as he was near the end. He and I were in a good place when he died, we had made amends to each other. He was a an episodic rager and would beat me, I was an out control alcoholic that caused a lot of harm.
What I am worried about is causing her more stress in her life right now to satisfy my need for more knowledge.
Thank you.
I guess much will depend on your relationship with your sister now (and back then if it was different).
Although you don't want to cause her more stress, it is always hard to know what will cause a person stress. Maybe she would love to share her thoughts with you, but has not brought it up herself for fear of causing you stress.
Bottom line is, you won't know unless you try. I would have thought it would be possible to approach this gradually. Pick some questions around one of the less difficult/emotive topics you want to discuss and see how she responds. If she clams up or gets upset then you will know not to push it. But if she is forthcoming then you can gradually go deeper until you sense resistance, and then use your judgement to weigh up the cost/benefit of continuing.
I am sorry your sister is nearing the end. The father of a friend of mine was on dialysis for a while and it was tough. I hope you have a good visit with her.
Thx Narckiddo, it went well today. I didn't push and she was forthcoming with a lot about her mental and physical pain. Today was not the day for my questions. I'll return in a few weeks.
I've been thinking this weekend about all "the work" I've done since I put alcohol and drugs down in 1982. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, driven tens of thousands of miles, cumulatively spent many many months "on retreat", probably years at this point, met hundreds of wonderful sage and safe people, helped countless men in recovery and outside 12-step, done breath-work, Rolfing, massage, bodywork, EMDR, tapping, group therapy, Mens groups, mixed groups, individual therapy, couples therapy, and I'm sure there is more. As I reflect on this, I wouldn't change a thing......I'm alive, I did not kill myself!!!
****Possible Trigger****
The extent and magnitude of the healing and " work" I've done is directly related to the magnitude of the horror and denigration I experienced regularly from the ages of 3-11.
I've recently become aware at a very core level that most of my life I've lived in fear, grief, and anger and mistaken melancholy or being void of feeling as serenity. Maybe I'm in the slow learners group , that said , the clarity of this awareness is actually joyful ! I've never felt this grounded in my life and clear about some changes I need to make in how I respond to the world as it unfolds on a daily basis. My no means no today more than ever and my yes means yes, I don't feel that constant ambiguity about simple daily decisions, I'm feeling much more free than ever.
I believe This clarity is coming as a result of all I talked about earlier. I'm a believer in going directly after what's bothering me, even when what's bothering me isn't clear. I get with people who get it and dig in.
I am headed off on the 8th to another long weekend retreat and will continue to uncover what blocks my life force. I am worthy and deserving of a good life and feeling safe and valued on this planet , it is my birthright and no one can take that from me!
Thanks for listening
:cheer: :cheer:
An amazing post. You ARE worthy, and so much more. :grouphug:
Quote from: SteveM on May 30, 2023, 12:01:37 AM
My no means no today more than ever and my yes means yes,
Reading your post made me feel happy and hopeful. The quoted extract pinpointed something I have a lot of trouble with, but haven't quite put my finger on until now.
I need to ground a bit, I've been spun up about an email I got from an Abutter to a property I own. I'm awake at 2 AM and it is not ok this is taking so much head and body space. I feel it in my neck and back.
This person is a lawyer and likes to intimidate with words. I've had a cordial relationship over the years and literally no communication since before Covid.
What is significant here is not the details but my reaction to someone making ridiculous statements about what I need to do about an issue that has nothing to do with me, it's between him and a third party, the other Abutter. The crazy thing here is that I feel like I've done something wrong and I need to respond to the email and get in there and try and fix it so no one is mad, especially a lawyer. Somehow my brain tells me I'm inferior to this person because they have more education than me and hold an esteemed position.
The esteemed position * is my mother's voice droning on about how I'll never amount to anything now that my grades have slipped to "average". My mothers side of the family is all about the "degree" and where the degree is from. A Lot of Ivy League pomp from her about her brothers and sisters accomplishments.
Wow , the power of writing stuff out never ceases to amaze me, I had no idea dear old moms voice form many decades ago was hiding in my insomnia!
Since coming to OOTS I've become much more curious about narcissism. I've never really done much reading about it, just starting to do that now and about covert narcissism, hard to believe how many narc's and co-narc's I was surrounded with in my youth. This jerk neighbor seems to fit the bill, just lashing out at anyone he can because he needs someone to do something about an issue he has, well F him!
Thanks for listening.
I'm sorry you are having to deal with jerk neighbour. Or at any rate, feeling you have to deal with jerk neighbour.
I totally get the esteemed position scenario. My narc parents are ocean-going snobs and position is everything. Lawyers are a particular thing for my mother. She is always threatening to call the law down on people.
Please rest assured that you are NOT inferior to this person in any way. And certainly not because he is a lawyer. I happen to be a qualified lawyer and I can tell you that we are nothing special. Since I am one, I obviously have a lot experience of other ones. The ones who throw their weight around and try to intimidate others (especially outside of their scope of work) with words are usually at the lower end of the skill scale. Whether or not jerk neighbour has narc tendencies, he is displaying the behaviour of a schoolyard bully.
Thanks NK for the feedback about lawyers and bullies. This guy definitely is on the lower end of the skill scale. I responded to him after a few days with two simple sentences basically saying I'm not getting involved in this situation at all. I got the weirdest response in that he praised the work I had done on my property and then started berating the neighbor he has the issue with and called her husband some really bad names. Stuff no one should ever say let alone put in an e-mail....not very sharp this guy.
Onward!
Different subject
I leave tomorrow for a 4 day retreat in upstate NY. A place I call my spiritual home. I'll be with 22 other safe people and once again build a safe container and see what comes up. It's always cathartic and I usually feel a bit more alive or awake after I leave and come home.
I hope everyone that is seeking relief and understanding of our commonality, C-PTSD, found a bit of that today and finds a bit more tomorrow!
Thanks for listening!
Just need to say I'm feeling confused this AM, not sure why, I just am. Feel like I don't know anything, I'm just taking up space.
Hi SteveM,
You have a lot going on in your life - confusion sounds understandable to me. Sending you a hug, if it's helpful :hug: and I can't find the words I wanted to say, so I'll stop.
Hope :)
Thanks Hope, hugs say a lot!
We are planning a short trip to the Gaspe Peninsula in Quebec, 5-6 days in July and I'm excited and apprehensive, these are normal feelings for me as I lead up to travel away from home.
I had forgotten that as I young child of 10 or so my FOO took a trip there and I have some vague memories from decades ago. Kind of neutral feelings nothing bad happened.
The feeling from traveling as a family unit back then was dread, the dread of my mother and father arguing about directions, where to stay , blah blah blah!
My M was a perfectionist and would try and fit every possible thing to do in a ridiculously short period of time, hence not much fun!
So as adults we try and do minimal planning other than rooms and possible needed reservations on boats etc. it's fun to just go on a road trip without a GD itinerary , much more pleasurable.
I just needed to tell people that understand what's going on in my head and not isolate.
Thanks for listening.
Have a great Sunday!
It's so beautiful there Steve I think (hope) you can let those things go and just let the beauty seep in. I am a bit biased because I'm Canadian and have lived from coast to coast (H was military), but it is so lovely, soul nourishing if you will. When you think about it if your parents bickered away when they visited they totally missed the point of going there. :bigwink:
I've been to the city of Quebec but not the peninsula. I bet it's lovely though - everywhere in Canada that I have visited has been lovely. We have relatives there so I have been a handful of times.
I also get apprehensive before a trip, even one which I have been looking forward to. So I totally get how you might be feeling.
It's good you make an active effort not to do the things your parents did that spoiled a trip.
Hi Steve,
I read your journal and I just wanted to say that I think it's really admirable all you have been through and how you have kept working on yourself over the years, keeping an open mind and knowing when you need to reach out.
Sending you support,
Dolly
I had an awareness, again, or should I say re- awareness, if that's a word. This is about hyper-vigilance and staying in my body. One way hyper awareness manifests in me is I am constantly reviewing/scanning the physical world around me ,seemingly , from a 360 degree global perspective, in front, to the side to the rear, above and below, it's exhausting! Most of the time this program just runs in me and I'm not even aware, that said, it depletes my life force , it tires me.
I'm doing a simple carpentry project at camp this morning and every time I walk down to my shop to make a cut I'm checking out the situation at my neighbors, is anybody outside, how many people are present , what are they doing.....blah blah blah. They've been my neighbors for 10 years and they are not a threat it's just the perception of one, that's what the world always presents is the CPTSD lens over everything, at least it seems that way today.
Sooo, a tool that always helps is this, writing about it with safe/sage people and telling them what's up. I just typed sage and meant safe but both descriptors fit!
It's all about perception, and the reality today is my camp is one of the safest and most nourishing places on the planet, not riddled with threats or perceived threats!
Have a great Saturday!
Thanks for listening
It is exhausting. I do similar.
I hope that writing about it has helped to dissipate the vigilance. Or at least reduced it.
Have a great time at camp - it's lovely that you have a safe place to enjoy. So I want you to be able to enjoy it to the full and kick that pesky CPTSD far away.
Its exhausting, and as you say almost entirely unconscious, as are the triggers.
I'm proud of you for going to these retreats. :grouphug:
I just made a healthy decision.....I think!? One of the areas in my life I still second guess myself is in the self-care department, especially when it involves another family member and their feelings.
I had planned on going to see my sister today, about 2.5 hour drive one way. She is not well and I haven't seen her in almost 2 months. I did a pro/con list and once I put down on paper the facts, never mind the feelings, it became very clear that I need to reschedule, for MY own well being!
The worry about how she, or other family members will feel because I'm going to reschedule and take care of me, is still big. I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Making my well being first priority was not something modeled in my FOO! For decades I put me at the bottom of the list, that has gradually changed. That said, it still feels foreign and wrong, I hate that feeling of letting others down. Countless times in the passed I would do anything to keep you happy or at least I thought I was keeping you happy and somehow I had the power to keep you from feeling or experiencing discomfort. Last time I checked, I'm not god nor do I have the ability to read minds. So I'm sticking with the fact that it's in my best interest to do a self care day and let others have their feelings, I can go next week!
Thanks for listening.
Hi Steve! It takes a lot of inner strength to be able to say I'm important when you grow up being taught the opposite. :hug:
I don't talk with many people anymore because people expected a lot out of me, but weren't willing to reciprocate.
There are days when I miss having people to talk to. I don't reach out to those people because it's not worth the price of my own self care.
I hope you enjoy your day!
Headed down to see my sister on Friday and feeling rested and in a much better space to be present for and with her while I'm there.so my decision last week to stay home proves out to be a good one.
I woke today with some feelings of separateness and I don't want to isolate, it's just too lonely and reminiscent of childhood so I'm just saying hello to you all. This forum is yet another safe and valuable tool in my toolbox of recovery from trauma.
Hi Steve :wave:
Thanks for checking in. Glad to hear you are in a better frame of mind for the visit and hope it goes well.
Hi. :wave:
You did good listening to what you needed. Great job. :cheer:
That's great that listening to yourself last weekend gave you that space and breath you needed. I used to push myself into things like that too and it never went well. Now that I choose more often, I feel like I'm putting myself first, being kind and compassionate to the one person I often left out - me. So, kudos to you :thumbup:
Hi SteveM,
:heythere:
Hope :)
Hi Hope, thank s for saying hello!
I want to tell you that tomorrow at 4 PM EST I'm going back to the home I lived in from age 8 to 26. Mostly bad stuff and sad times in that house over an 18 year period.
The house came on the market Sunday and I booked a showing for tomorrow. I drove out of that driveway 46 years ago and have not been back since. I have lived a pretty amazing life in those 46 years, tremendously good things have happened in my world once I left the narcissistic den I was raised in.
The house has morphed considerably and I'm excited to go back and see if there is a sense of life when I open the door for the first time. When I left there was just a feeling of doom. The pictures make it look like a happy place now, I hope that's the case. My wife and 2 adult children are coming along , there is no way I'd do this alone.
I incurred significant abuse, over a period of about 4 years in the house next to it so it will be interesting to see what comes up tomorrow. This feels like something I need to do for myself it has the feel of taking back my power, my agency over my life.
I'll take the love and support you all show here on the forum with me and hold it dear.
My Best
SteveM
We'll be there with you in spirit. You are incredibly strong to be able to face this. I don't know you but am so proud of you, truly. :grouphug:
Hi Steve,
Sending you support and strength and I hope you're able to find some closure/what you need from the visit.
That's great that your family is there with you and you have people to support you.
dolly
It was a great visit today. The house has changed a lot! I could feel the love that has been put in over the years, the home felt very safe. My wife and two children got to see where I grew up and they really had " a fun day " as my son put it. The kids know a very small part of my story and at this point they have a good feeling about where I grew up and I'm not saying a thing to change that. It would be self serving if I dove into my story. Thanks for your support.
Great courage and strength SteveM.
Thanks for sharing a great update.
I'm really glad it went well. It's nice to hear the house is not tainted by its past. What is particularly nice, though, is that you had an opportunity to go there and maybe clear away some of the mental clutter about that period of your life.
I'm so glad the visit went well and wasn't too triggering. It's so tough to know what to tell kids...balancing between not being secretive and not being self-serving in what is shared.
It sounds like the visit helped you somewhat with the trauma you suffered there Steve, very brave of you to go and smart to bring family who love you! I think this means you are ready to deal more with all the things you endured. Good on you :hug:
I've been busy the last few weeks since the visit to my early childhood home, it's been a good busy . Did lots of projects at camp and I love doing them. However, I feel the end of Summer approaching and the diminishing daylight, I just don't want summer to go!
I also feel myself slipping into ungroundedness, if that's a word. In my head Im having some some negative self talk which usually ends up in the place of " what happened to me wasn't that bad stop wining. Which leads to, "maybe nothing really happened, you are making this up".
I have to state to people that understand severe childhood trauma: horrible things did happen to me for many years, it was real, I survived, I'm safe, people love me, and I have the capacity and ability to love others well".
That is my truth today.
Yup. It did happen. It's normal that your brain does this loop. You know that. Doesn't make it easier. :grouphug: I know that.