Out of the Storm

I think I lost them or did they lose me?  This new journal will be, hopefully, about getting in touch with my feelings

I'm not sure if this is a coincidence or not but last Friday which is T day, I woke up  feeling, then thinking that she was not feeling well and going to cancel the appointment. Even though i feel she is pretty safe i still find it really difficult to meet every week.  My body tenses up even more than usual a couple days before the appointment and my mood changes.   I then received notification that she was not feeling well and that the appointment was cancelled.
All to say, that I was releaved the apt was cancelled.  A couple days later I started feeling/thinking (not sure anymore which is which) I missed the session, talking with her.

As I thought and reviewed over the last session from my notebook I saw her suggestion about joining an online community because I am very isolated.  My isolation is very much my choice.  I have very few people in my life and have difficulty maintaining a relationship of any kind.  And really a big part of me really doesn't want to even try.  I think my T focuses on the little part that still does want to try.  My head and my belief now is 'don't even bother, it's not worth it, it's too hard, it's unsafe (not necessarily in the right order) I very seldom go out except to get groceries and i do that as quickly as possible to get home wfere ut's safe.  Anyway,  I searched online and OOTS came up.  I tried it and it seems to be a good fit for me.  Hopefully I myself will be a fit as well.  I have never fit in anywhere.  Maybe for a bit but then it usually goes sideways. I digress....

Usually I sleep,  well I always over sleep and often have long daily naps.  I feel exhausted all the time from all the years of being out in the world and all the abuse that entails, feeling unsafe and hypervigilant and extremely sensitive to my surroundings and what the humans are doing lol.    Hence my choice for isolation.   So it was unusual for me this morning to wake up at 4:20 am especially that I went to sleep about 11:30 last night. 

I stayed awake til approx 630 am, watching tv . At 9 am the phone rang and it was the LTD insurance company calling.  It's almost like my body knows before I do what's going to happen.  My body and my head always get triggered when LTD insurance topic comes up.  I so wished they would leave me alone forever and ever so I can rest, not worry about them or anything else for that matter.  I'm just so tired of trying to make things work. The call was about sending me yet another form to fill out.  More hoops to jump through. I know I have to do these things, it is part of the process if I want to continue receiving disability payments.  I believe it's the triggers that I'm so tired of, it wouldn't be as difficult I guess without the triggers.  Ohhhh yeah that's why I'm on disability, (tongue in cheek) I can't seem to handle much of anything. 

I'm looking forward to session with T tomorrow.  It can't seem to come soon enough! 

Moondance,

I can truly feel the stress you are prone to with your therapist. I'm glad you brought it up so I could respond and share that I have had many similar feelings over time.

I've been in therapy with a good trauma-wise therapist now for 20 years. those first few years were a lot of hot-and-cold feelings about therapy. Some days therapy felt like pure torture. I would watch the clock begging for time to speed up. That's what I used to do in grade school during the most prolific bullying of my life.  I guess I was so trapped in the traumas of begging god for the clock to go faster in catholic grade school that I did the same thing when T would bring me back into my traumas as an adult. I swear those sessions were physically torturous. It felt like his hands had reached into my chest and were mercilessly squeezing the lifeblood from my heart and stomach.

Another thing that would happen was that there were several 55 minute therapy sessions that only lasted 5 minutes. I would greet my T, sit down, we'd start talking, and suddenly he'd say, "we're out of time." I'd look at the clock and 50 minutes had passed without me knowing it. He'd reassure me that it was okay. That even though I was completely and utterly dissociated during our therapy, it was still working. He was still talking to my brain, even though I wasn't in it at the time.

Like you, I knew that I wanted/needed what he could do for me, but I just couldn't feel safe during the sessions. As time progressed, and as he would openly tell me that he could see how tortured I was, and that he wasn't offended by me watching the clock, the sessions became safer and better. They're good all the time now. I look forward to my 55 minutes with him every other week now.




Another thing I want to comment on is how impressed I am that you recognize and trust these premonitions. You knew she was going to cancel before she did. You say it's almost like your body knows before you do that something is going to happen. I would take the word "almost" out of that sentence. I know for a fact that these types of premonitions are real, because I have them often also.  OFTEN.

I've had more premonitions than I can count. I have a thousand examples, but this is my most important one: I was saved from my last suicide attempt 15 minutes before I planned to jump off a bridge, when a lifelong friend called me on the phone as I was headed to the car to drive to the bridge. I live on the US West Coast. She lives on the US East Coast (2,200 miles away). She didn't say hello. When I answered she screamed "WHAT'S WRONG?!!!!" And then told me that her stomach was sick and I was the only thing she could think about, when suddenly a friend of HERS, whom I've never met, and who lives in the center of the US called HER to tell HER to call "The west coast" immediately because something terrible was about to happen.  This is why I don't believe spirit connection is real. I know it is real.

You are free to talk with me about your premonitions and your connections all you want, and I will never doubt you. I know gravity is real and I know our premonitions are real. I don't believe that we're all connected. I know that we are.

I also believe that those of us who struggle with lifelong trauma issues are the most aware of our unseen connection to others, and those of us who are narcissistic sociopaths are the least aware of the connections.

I like virtual hugs on this forum, because I believe they do carry a real connection through the unseen ether. 

When I meditate, which is difficult for me because of my hypervigilant, overactive brain, I start by reminding myself that all points in time and space are connected. And that the connection is faster than the speed of light. The connection happens at the speed of thought.  That way I go in knowing that my spirit is connecting with all other spirits.

So...never worry that I will roll my eyes at your reports of premonitions. I already know they are real. I'm alive because of them.

Today I hope for some peace in your day, and I'm looking forward to reading your future journal entries.

Thanks again, Papa Coco, for the validation and encouragement - always very much appreciated.

Like you, I have experienced numerous premonitions but have always considered them coincidences. Hmmmm, it will take me some time to digest your response about that (in a good way!).

Sharing your experince with therapy helps me to understand I am in the process and that what I'm experiencing is all part of it - thank you so much for sharing your experiences, your self awareness and being so open about yourself. 

I am thankful for this forum today. 

 :wave:

Welcome to your recovery journal!

Yea those constant triggers are exhausting. Utterly exhausting. And with multiple traumas like you've had on top of long term trauma, well those triggers are everywhere. Just imagine even without the biological component of trauma just if we were otherwise "normal' and untraumatized just imagine walking around with all your muscles clenched like many of us do. Just that 1 single piece of the trauma symptoms constellation...how exhausting is that? 24 hrs a day every day for decades.

 
Thanks Armee - a step forward maybe.

:yeahthat: so so true Armee. 

My body is so beyond tense all of the time I don't know that it will ever relax.  I wake up at times from the pain.  It will take effort and time I guess.

Take good care  :hug:

welcome, moondance.  here's to help and support i sincerely wish for you here.  unfortunately that's all i've got today, except sending love and a hug. :hug:

 :wave: Hi San,

It touches me deeply that you would reach out to me and wish help and support for me, especially at this time.  :hug: so very very kind and thoughtful of you. 

There are so many of us and each story matters. I get it and I understand each of us is doing what we can in the moment.  Given the fact that we are dealing with CPTSD and more I find it amazing how much we are able to support each other.   

I know I say thank you a lot to all but I really, really mean it.

Not sure where to begin today...

I had session with T this morning.  The insurance company has not approved additional councelling support for me after the next 2 sessions.    Long and short is because I'm not healing as quickly as they would like and because there is a good chance  I'm not returning to work they will not pay for further therapy.  So I'm not a viable investment is what I get from that. 

How do I feel? Sad that I won't be able to continue with councelling as I finally connected with a good T. 

I have to fill out a form which says the definition of my disability has changed/ will be changing.  And provide a listing of jobs for the past 10 years.  To prove what exactly?

I really hate these companies.  They are not interested in a person's best interest. 

It will take me sometime to figure out how I'm really feeling.  A mishmash right now. Overwhelmed.

Crawling back to bed sounds good.

I'm really sorry. Thats an awful feeling. I hope maybe you and T can fight for more coverage. There's supposed to be parity in mental health care. :(

I had to have horribly triggering conversations to get coverage from my insurance company and I haven't even tried to extend that to this year. It's a horrible system. I'm sorry.

Thank you Armee for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

Yes I relate to you about having triggering conversations with them.  Almost every conversation with them since Sept has been  triggering.  Actually I believe it further traumatized me as I was in crisis at the time so the continued triggers made it really bad/worse for me.

As mentioned in numerous postings
"they "just don't get it.  The psych assessment I received clearly said trauma therapy required; major depression/ anxiety, ADD and CPTSD unresolved.  For those not trained with CPTSD / trauma. 

Right now I'm thinking I would like to use some of the resources provided here as disagreement to this decision.  Whether I have the wherewithal to do it remains to be seen.

Now rambling...ugh

I've heard this organization helps provide financial aid for complex ptsd and dissociative disorder treatment and I wonder if they can help provide advice for working with insurance to get approval?

https://www.beautyafterbruises.org/all-about-us

Thank you so much Armee

How am I feeling, sick to my stomach, anxiety is rising, fear.

I have a very reactive gut and often feel a lot of feelings there.  I hope that you find moments of ease.

Thank you Rainydiary, it matters that someone relates.

I'm now  questioning all that has been said and/or written.   Why did they change their minds about the councelling?  I just don't get it? I will work at quieting my mind and body. 

moondance,  in your case, it sounds like being able to claim a different diagnosis might help you get more sessions covered.   i'm terribly sorry you're going thru this, especially since you've found a T with whom you work well.  to my mind, the T should be the one to determine how much time a client needs - diagnoses can change over time - and be able to work w/ them as long as needed.  ins. companies just want to run clients thru a neat little treadmill in the time limit they've determined is all that's needed for that diagnosis.  for example, back when i was practicing, a diagnosis of depression bought you 12 sessions.  complex trauma wasn't even on the menu.  best to you as you navigate these surly waters.  love and hugs :hug:

Hi San,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my journal.  I really appreciate it as it is really getting me to think about and journal what happened. Not sure if it will make sense but have to get it down.

When I was first approved for LTD they assigned me a rehab person and approved me for 12 weeks of therapy with their chosen psychologist.  Each session with this T there were serious triggers for me as she mentioned going back to work every time.  I am terrified at the mention of it, i can't watch or talk about work without being triggered. I did not feel safe with this psychologist.  I was not able to speak up for myself, it didn't even occur to me at the beginning  to suggest someone else.  I don't think I was asked either but not sure.  This T was working for the ins.  and had been for 10 yrs.  She knows what they want and that is most likely a return to work asap.  She was very pushy about going back to work.  I would speak with the rehab person every 4 weeks, and she would check in.  By the 8th week I could no longer deal with it and pretty much lost it on the phone w/rehab person trying yo explain what was going on.  By loosing it I mean my speech was escalating, i began to stutter trying to explain what was happening yo me.  .  My weeks were filled with triggers, zoning out and I believe disassociating, if that is the vorrect word.  My mind was going non-stop, anyway I was in crisis to put in mildly.  I told her I could no longer see this T as I didn't feel safe.  I had tried to express this to rehab person prior but it wasn't until I had totally escalated did she hear me.   She told me she would request approval for the suggested T and let me know but that I had to see T1 until approval came thru. When I look back on it know it makes me really angry.  Against my will, (there are a number of choice words going thru my head at tge moment).  I was put in an unsafe position against my will and for how many times i did not know?    Are you kidding me???  OMG. This is know bringing back other unsafe situations with other T's. 

I stepped away for a cigarette and now I lost my train of thought. 

So i guess that is it. 

I had a major trigger at last place of work which I believe caused me to spiral. It took 3 months of spiraling before I just couldn't go in to work.  I tried and tried to get over it before giving in.  I was getting nose bleeds and spitting out blood clots at least 3x a week.   When I was first off work all I did was sleep for 2 weeks.  I would wake up to eat / drink something and go back to sleep.  I'm still exhausted with next to no energy.  I have been off work now for 11 months. 

So basically this last job triggered the past SA, the past bullying, the past gaslighting, the past manipulations by master manipulator M and humpty dumpy fell on the ground. Gosh not sure where that came from. 

Ohhhh and lies, so many lies and betrayal.

So very sick of it all.

Moondance,

I want to start by chiming in with others on the forum who have commented on the wisdom you bring to us. I know you're in a triggered Emotional Flashback (EF) place right now, but through the suffering, you still say some profoundly enlightening things. Thank you for joining the group. I'm a bit wiser now because of you.

Insurance Companies are bullies. And for us to have to deal with them like we do is triggering because of how badly we've been bullied all our lives.

C-PTSD is real. For many of us it requires a lifetime of ongoing therapy. But for most of us, if we can't pay for it out of pocket...well...we get crapola.

We, the beautiful, traumatized souls who suffer the sleepless nights and the stomach pains and the headaches, all want help for ourselves as well as for each other. We know what it feels like to be aggressively isolated by narcissists, so we compassionately reach out to each other with hugs and verbal support. We tend to want to help each other as much as we pray for help for ourselves. When that help is out of reach for any of us, we all feel the frustration.

Right now, my hands ache because I want so badly to reach through my computer screen and slap your insurance company and to keep slapping until they learn to have some compassion so as to become better humans and provide the funds so you can receive the therapeutic services that you deserve. (And the same goes for you, Armee. And for anyone else who's insurance companies are blocking access to compassionate health care).

For now, Just know that in our hearts, me and others on this forum are circling you with supportive words and thoughts and prayers. Maybe we can't help fix your insurance company, but we can offer up how much we want to.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

hey, moondance, it ticks me off too  :pissed: at how you've been treated, both by people who are supposed to be helping you get better, and at work.  i get it about triggers and spiraling and having miles to go before you can come back from it.  so very sorry you've had to go thru all that.

i forgot to mention, i was talking about my experience in the States - i don't know about any other country.  but, i was in the business a long time ago and don't know how things might have changed now. 

fingers crossed and prayers flying that you get your extension.  i so want you to be able to continue getting help from someone you trust.  love and hugs :hug:

 :hug: Gosh thank you again Rainydiary, Armee, Papa Coco and San,

I am so very thankful for the support, the insights, the encouragement each of you provides not to mention each if your stories because you all help me tremendously.   I can feel the support which is a step forward for me. A huge thing actually.

:grouphug:

I agree with San. I'm so sorry you are going through this. And I agree with Papa Coco I physically feel riled up on your behalf wanting to combat the insurance co. They give us approval for treatment that is on the short end of what is required for 1 single nonhorrific trauma and then act like there's something wrong with us or our T that we are not better yet. I was on the verge of going into explicit detail of what happened to me to get my request covered I was so angry at them quizzing me about well if you've done CBT for this long and emdr for that long how come you aren't better yet? Uuuuggggggjhhhhh!!!!! Do you want to know what I've been though? You really don't want to hear it.

Armee, if you want to share and the sharing does not you put in a bad place or trigger you , yes I am all ears/eyes.

If you decide not to share I get it!   :hug: to you

San, yes I am in a different country.  Thank you for the nudge of encouragement though because it led me to other Canadian sites.

Beauty After the Bruises -  possible funding for CPTSD/trauma therapy.

Apply for Aid — Beauty After Bruises
https://www.beautyafterbruises.org/apply-for-a-grant

and

The Accessibility Act (disabilities) (last updated 04-04-23) a subsection of the Canadian Human Rights Act

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/a-0.6/

Thanks again - if any of you know whether or where I should be posting these links elsewhere please let me know.

I'm sorry thay was such a poorly written post I left! That was my cranky inner dialogue when I was dealing with insurance. People who haven't lived this stuff don't want to be confronted with our stories and sometimes I just feel like making people like the insurance companies who are deciding we've had enough therapy I just want to make them have to uncomfortably hear it. All the horrifying details. Then maybe they'd get off their tushes and fight for our coverage.

Oops sorry Armee,

:hug: if okay

I feel lost today. I feel heavy, a weight.  There are things I need to but will not be doing them today.

I have been having dreams that I can't remember. My body feels they are not good dreams.  This has been happening for the past few weeks. 

I think I've lived in fear most of my life. 

 :hug:

No sorries needed, I totally wrote that poorly and in a rush.

You most certainly have lived most of your life in fear on account of the things you went through. Anyone would.  :hug:

Moondance,

Days like you're having are so heavy. My heart is with yours. I know that feeling so well. Sometimes I know why it's happening. Other times I have no idea why.

I think of this heaviness as a storm that has come upon me without my permission. Sometimes, all I can do is weather the storm. Hunker down. Drink hot tea or bury myself in a movie or a book. Lay in bed. Do a jigsaw puzzle.

If I could do a jigsaw puzzle with you right now, I would. But here, at least, are a few hugs to let you know I understand what you're going through today.  :hug: :hug: :hug:

I support you for who you are today. (A very wise person taught me that saying).

Thank you both for your support.  It makes me cry whenever I feel supported.

Some relief felt after talking with a lawyer. In essence the insurance letter was a scare tactic.  It worked. But I now have an understanding of the letter and how little it means for the time being which spells relief for me for now.

 :pissed: Grr on scare tactics.  :thumbup: for relief of knowing that's what's up though.

I used to cry often when I felt supported  :hug:   Now not so much, so it can change I guess. You're not alone with that anyway.

Thanks Blueberry,

I have felt this from them throughout,  why I would think this letter was any different I'm not sure.

Your afternoon sounds peaceful/lovely. 

:hug:

Moondance, I resonate with the feelings of heaviness and with overwhelming paperwork.  I hope that some of the heaviness and unease lifts even for a short time

Just thinking about my siblings and FOO.

***(POSSIBLE) TRIGGER WARNING***


I don't think it's a coincidence that each of us has experienced SA.  I have always believed that my M was SA when she was younger and possibly as an adult.  Aside from the severe physical abuse she endured at the hands of her M.  That makes sense or "fits" in so many ways. 

I have always felt an underlying sense that there was sexual dysfunction in my FOO.  I've not been able to identify it just a feeling. 

Thank you Rainydiary - so appreciated  :)

I still have to fill out some paperwork but I  was releaved to some degree that I don't have to worry about anything right at the moment.

yay! for relief. :applause:  so good to get a break from worries. :aaauuugh:  i'm glad for you, moondance.

sad that SA kind of runs in your family.  that sucks.  as far as your 'feeling', i don't doubt you are correct.  those 'feelings' we have from time to time are usually spot on, mainly because, in my opinion, we know the vibe of that sort of situation and can sense it. we are familiar w/ the particular type of energy that accompanies such situations.  hang tough, ok? hangin' right beside you.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you San.  :hug: Back at you

After reading numerous posts this morning it occurred to me I need to start from the beginning.  Well the beginning I remember that is.

There are years I don't remember and now I find it to much to go start. 

I think I'll do nothing again today.  So many things I should be doing even though I hate should.

Most likely I will have to sell my place which I have been at for 13 + years.  I love my place - I live in a rural area that is very quiet, very peaceful.  I have neighbors but don't hear much from them which is perfect for me.  I spend most of my time inside these days. 

I feel overwhelmed at the thought of moving.  I haven't kept up with the cleaning for the past few years.  That in itself is overwhelming but to think of the selling process is terrifying. I should sit down and figure out the financial advantages/disadvantages of selling and renting as opposed to a mortgage.  Renting means less privacy, more noise, closer neighbors, less control but less cost more than likely.

Yesterday I had good intentions to get up and "get at it" this morning.  But I am glued to the couch.

I often find that "doing nothing" is actually doing a lot in terms of giving us rest and time to process.  I wish you well sorting out how you plan to move forward.

Quote from: Moondance on April 25, 2023, 05:53:48 PM
After reading numerous posts this morning it occurred to me I need to start from the beginning.  Well the beginning I remember that is.

There are years I don't remember and now I find it to much to go start. 

I think I'll do nothing again today.  So many things I should be doing even though I hate should.

Most likely I will have to sell my place which I have been at for 13 + years.  I love my place - I live in a rural area that is very quiet, very peaceful.  I have neighbors but don't hear much from them which is perfect for me.  I spend most of my time inside these days. 

I feel overwhelmed at the thought of moving.  I haven't kept up with the cleaning for the past few years.  That in itself is overwhelming but to think of the selling process is terrifying. I should sit down and figure out the financial advantages/disadvantages of selling and renting as opposed to a mortgage.  Renting means less privacy, more noise, closer neighbors, less control but less cost more than likely.

Yesterday I had good intentions to get up and "get at it" this morning.  But I am glued to the couch.

I'm reading a lot of overwhelm in your post. I would feel overwhelmed too. I've just been through a move and although I'm better settled than I was a few weeks ago, I'm still settling and haven't even finished unpacking or setting up. e.g. lots of books as yet unpacked because not all shelving on walls yet. It has been a lot of work and upheaval.

Today you're glued to the couch. In my experience, there's usually a reason or two for feeling glued to the couch - I usually get stuck in bed in fact, but pretty much same thing. Today - well in my version of the forum it's showing 'today' - maybe it was last night for you, but anyway very recently you wrote about FOO and SA - ime that's the kind of realisation which would certainly allow some of us on here to freeze on the couch or similar for a while. I think that kind of realisation does a big number on some or most of us maybe even. If not applicable to you, take with a large pinch of salt.

Then, based on posts you read here you're thinking you need to start from the beginning, meaning to write out everything from the beginning? If I'm understanding that correctly, I want to give you a gentle reminder that just because 'everybody else' on here is writing their story out of from the beginning, doesn't mean now is the right time for you. I've never written my story out from the beginning, nor have any Ts ever suggested it, except one where I ditched him after 3 sessions for a number of reasons. So also just because a lot of people may seem to be doing it atm, doesn't mean everybody on the forum does or that it's the correct move for everybody at some point in their healing lives.

I also agree with rainy that "doing nothing" can actually be doing a lot. Things work away in our subconscious and that in itself is often very tiring, as such it means some part of us is actually doing a lot. I used to find that after phases of seemingly doing nothing or being stuck in bed, 'things' would come up to the surface. In my case, it was usually realisations and not memories, but for others it might be memories. That's all hard-going.

:applause: :cheer: for resting on the sofa.

Hi Moondance.  Don't be hard on yourself for being glued to the couch.  You are dealing with a lot.  Resting and recharging is important, and no more so than when you have big things to deal with. 

I tried to start at the beginning a few years ago but it was just too much.  Since then I've been doing my best to just write it down as it comes. 

Sending you lots of good thoughts  :hug:

Hi Moondance. It's so cruel for the insurance cos to put you through the ringer. I hope it gets straightened out.

I wanted to say please please don't feel the need to write from the beginning. If it's helpful for you, yes, of course, but not because it feels that's what you're supposed to do. When I've tried writing anything from the beginning it quickly overwhelms me. Unless I'm dissociated. Which is also a problem. You share what you need to and are ready to but please know we understand you and what you are going through without needing to know the details of what you went through. We are all here because we have the same constellation of symptoms and struggles and similar complex trauma histories.

Thank you all for your support/encouragement and very helpful suggestions.  Your posts mean a lot.

You are all so right, I'm not able to start from beginning.  My own mind sabotaging me? OMG this is so awful.  Anyway that made me really stuck. I think I am unstuck at the moment.

.............

This is the 2nd time I'm off work on long term
Disability.  I did not want to accept that I was really ill and unable to work the 1st time and therefore accepted a new position with different company.

This time however i see it, feel it, dream it and am consumed with it at times. 

I was physically ill and exhausted when my family physician suggested I take a couple of weeks off.  I was getting nose bleeds and spitting out blood clots, I was weak and having  a difficult time staying awake, I was very pale and felt like I was going to pass out at anytime.   I was in such a fog and dissociated state that I didn't even realize at that point how bad off I was.  I was in this world but really was not. 

All I've known is work, work has been my life.  I placed a lot of importance and value in my career. This pattern was established at a very young age. I had to produce, be productive if I didn't,  who was I?  I took great pride in my work.  It was the one thing I felt I was doing that was worthwhile and I was believed I was really good at what I did.    This does not come from an egotistical point of view I dont think.  My work experience in this field started at the age of 22 but I also studied in this field.  I will be 62 shortly so that is 38-40 years.   So for me to give in, agree with doc to take time off  (different doc 1st time around) was really difficult.   In part,  because I also knew deep down that this was it, I most likely wouldn't be going back to work nor did I know whether I would be covered by insurance company as I was employed there for just a short time. 

I emailed HR and the supervisor a copy of doctors letter mid 2022 and I remain off work due to CPTSD, major depression/anxiety and ADD.  There was gaslighting, bullying and sexual triggers from the get go at this place of employment. I fought it and didn't want to let go.   I submitted a request for short term disability.  This was not an easy feat (and usually isn't)  as the insurance companies take advantage of the fact you are down and out, whether consciously or not the system seems to be set up that way.  I was able to find an advocate to help/support me durjng thisvprocessvsince I did not have the wherewithal to do it on my own.

It took almost 3 months to get paid and when they paid me the payment was short by approx. $7k. 

After 3 months of short term disability I was not ready or able to return to work.  I then began the process of applying for long term disability.  During this time I was having to see my family physician 2-3 times a week to fill out paperwork/forms and tests to eliminate any possible physical issues.  I received a psychiatrist assessment 2 1/2 mths in.   These doc appointments and tests were extremely difficult as I needed to  sleep from the exhaustion.  I was in crisis and in need of help.  I did not want to go anywhere for fear of additional triggers.  I was in so much pain I did not want to add any further triggers/traumas.  I did not feel safe anywhere but at home, inside my home.  I didn't even feel safe going outside on my porch for fear someone would say something or just see me and make judgment.  During the 1st 3 months of being off work I stayed  in touch with 2 co-workers only to finally realize these 2 were part of the gaslighting/manipulative/lying * . I also felt rejected, abandoned and shut out after I  spoke my truth.   One of these 2 was a close friend or so I thought.  Yet another trigger specific to my difficulties with attachment (I'm not sure this is the correct terminology). 

I once again found myself shut down.

The 1st time I was off work (a different employer) was initially due to surgery for the removal of precancerous lump.  It was strongly suggested that I receive radiation which I did.  My mental state took a fast decline when I think back on it.  This was a month before Covid hit us all.  I believe the Covid isolation played a part with my already shaky mental health.  I worked from home as my immune system was compromised.

hey, moondance, trying to make the system work for us is always a challenge.  you're not alone w/ this.  and, yeah, covid has played havoc w/ our states of mind. 

i'm glad you were able to see that starting from the beginning is not the best for you right now.  maybe someday, but this is your healing, your progress, your way of being as kind to yourself as possible.  too many others have been unkind to us.  i think we deserve a break from it even if we're the only ones who can see that.  bed, computer games, cards, puzzles, couch - whatever works.  as someone has said, and i've read it often here, this, too, shall pass.  hang tough, ok?  hangin' right beside you.  love and hugs :hug:

Thanks San  - it's nice to know someone who I can hang out with  ;)

The SC and SH in me is still very strong and debilitating at times. 

I am working at it.  Today I gave myself a pedicure and that feels good. 

I've been doing "not much of anything " for months now.  Im not bored with it just seems very unproductive.  But as you say, this to shall pass and I need to learn to be not be so judgmental towards myself.   So, yes computer games and TV at the same time to drown out busyness in my head. 

Safe, virtual hugs back at you  :hug:

I feel better today - a bit of energy, even though it's possibly nervous energy.  I will use it to get something done today.

I haven't juiced in years but this morning I will make a kale, carrot, apple, ginger juice.
Hopefully that equates to more energy yet for tomorrow.

Lots of thoughts going through my head this morning.  I usually read daily posts here and I value each one.  I'm not responding as much as I was but I think that is because I'm taking  in all this new information.

I have Peter Walker's book and have had it for a bit.  I find it difficult to take it all in, concentrating/ distraction is an issue.
I hope to do some reading today.

 :heythere: Hi. Great idea to juice!!! I don't have a juicer but may make a smoothie. Thanks for the inspiration!

If it makes you feel better I read a ton of nonfiction books including on trauma and trauma memoirs but have never been able to get through Pete Walker's book and have no idea why.

 :wave:

Hi Armee,

Yes that made me feel better lol  :)

I plan to start a written journal as I read Peter's book.  Nothing too detailed just point form highlights to help my memory I guess.

Enjoy your smoothie Armee!

This morning I pulled out my poems which I haven't looked at for years.  A neighbor was talking about writing a song a week ago or more and I thought I would look at the poems I wrote years ago to give him ideas for his song.  I didn't find anything that i thought would work for him but I had a look anyway.  I read them and found one called "The Lost Child". 

This evening I started reading about the 4F's of CPTSD.  I have experienced all of the characteristics listed for the freeze defense + others F's that I find too shameful to name. 

One of things I found interesting though is that Peter Walker describes the freeze defense as "The Lost Child". 


Peter Walker, Complex PTSD, From Survuving to Thriving, pg 118

RIGHT-BRAIN DISSOCIATION

It is often the scapegoat or the most profoundly abandoned child, "the lost child", who is forced to habituate to the freeze response. Not allowed to successfully employ fight, flight or fawn responses, the freeze type's defenses develop around classical or right-brain dissociation. Dissociation allows the freeze type to disconnect from experiencing his abandonment pain, and protects him from risky social interactions - any of which might trigger feelings of being retraumatized. If you are a freeze type, you may seek refuge and comfort by dissociating in prolonged bouts of sleep, daydreaming, wishing and right-brain-dominant activities like TV, online browsing and video games. Freeze types sometimes have or appear to have Attention Deficit Disorder [ADD]. They often master the art of changing the internal channel whenever inner experience becomes uncomfortable. When they are especially traumatized or triggered, they may exhibit a schizoid-like detachment from ordinary reality. And in worst case scenarios, they can decompensate into a schizophrenic experience like the main character in the book, I Never Promised You a Rose Garden.[/i][/color]

There is schizophrenia in my FOO.  When I read this I recalled a direct manager saying something to me about this, insinuating that perhaps I was schizophrenic.   I don't recall exactly but I remember feeling really ashamed and wanting to hide.  I was assistant manager at the time and recall feeling demeaned, nothing, worthless.  I did not understand or was unable to understand mental illness, I was to overwhelmed with shsne.    That was the beginning of the end of yet another friendship gone bad.  I didn't feel/think I could trust her from then on.  I have felt ashamed of my FOO, it's history and of course deep seeded shame of
Myself. 

One of my brothers came to live with me for a time.  I thought I could help him at the time.  With my recent knowledge of CPTSD and our FOO history  I strongly believe my brother struggles with CPTSD as well.  I mention this because the manager I spoke of was aware of my B's severe depression and difficulties.  She used this, not in a supportive way, to put me in my place, put me down, whatever.  The thing is when I read the above   paragraph about (in worse case scenarios) schizophrenia experience I realize now, today, when I read it, that it is most likely true.  Hard pill for me to swallow. 

 :bighug:

Hey. Wow what a coincidence that you named your poem lost child and then see that Pete Walker called the dissociated/freeze response the "lost child" too.

That was cruel of your former boss/friend. Most people do not understand mental illness or trauma or what schizophrenia looks like. But I know if you were a male vet displaying a trauma response they'd understand it's PTSD. You have wounds from massive trauma. You have complex ptsd. You are injured and responding in a normal way to abnormal situations plural.

I get it, My mom had bipolar disorder which I actually think was schizoaffective because she displayed all of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia (negative meaning "absence of responses" not negative meaning "bad"). So I know that fear of maybe I do too.

You are not schizophrenic. Schizophrenia requires serious treatment and speciifc medication and your doctor would need you to know and would need people around you to know so you could receive treatment during psychosis. Your therapist would tell you if you were schizophrenic.

But you know thinking about that passage I see what he means by that I think. Because the dissociation can become so severe that there is flat affect and catatonia. Sometimes I think doctors misdiagnose trauma and dissociation as schizophrenia if they don't understand the sound and visual flashbacks and voices as psychotic instead of flashbacks and internal communication. But they are not the same.

And if you were schizophrenic. That's OK too. You are who you are regardless of a diagnosis. You are kind and intelligent and creative and traumatized. You have been through a lot. That would injure anyone's nervous system badly. You are still here! I know the shame. It is so difficult. But I'm proud of you. I think you turned out awesome.

Hi Armee,

Back at you with a big hug  :bighug:

You have wounds from massive trauma. You have complex ptsd. You are injured and responding in a normal way to abnormal situations plural.

Thank you for this - I keep forgetting. This IC takes over but that will hopefully change.

I get it, My mom had bipolar disorder which I actually think was schizoaffective because she displayed all of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia (negative meaning "absence of responses" not negative meaning "bad"). So I know that fear of maybe I do too.


I will look up schizzoaffective. I'm not sure what exactly all my mom struggled with but for sure CPTSD.  "Absence of responses" rings so true for me and my FOO. Pretty certain my mom (and others) experienced dissociation. 

You have convinced me I'm not schizophrenic!!! A huge thank you.  😊 I agree, the psychiatrist would have picked up on something I would think as,well as my T.

And if you were schizophrenic. That's OK too. You are who you are regardless of a diagnosis. You are kind and intelligent and creative and traumatized. You have been through a lot. That would injure anyone's nervous system badly. You are still here! I know the shame. It is so difficult. But I'm proud of you. I think you turned out awesome

I agree and I now have a better understanding of mental illness.  Although I don't feel safe (yet) telling everyone about my own mental illness, I think that as I deal/heal with the shame, etc perhaps that will change or not (lol) and that's okay.

Thank you so much for your continued encouragement.  I feel accepted in this moment.  😌  I know that my head will tell me otherwise at some point but for now it's a good feeling.

I had a session with T this morning.  It was good.

I felt encouraged - she told me she would fill out application for Breaking Free Foundation for possible funding for a couple additional sessions.  Both psychologist and client apply.
I feel supported here and my T.  That is uplifting.

More tears, tears of relief, gratitude and dare I say it, (joy)

I feel spent now - a call for rest is in order.

:grouphug:

I appreciate you sharing about the support and joy you felt today.

QuoteAnd if you were schizophrenic. That's OK too. You are who you are regardless of a diagnosis. You are kind and intelligent and creative and traumatized. You have been through a lot. That would injure anyone's nervous system badly. You are still here! I know the shame. It is so difficult. But I'm proud of you. I think you turned out awesome

moondance, i took armee's quote and put it here cuz i just wanted to reiterate those sentiments.  mental illness is only shame-based because others have made it so.  we weren't born being ashamed of who we were, what we looked like, or how we acted.  that was put on us by others so it doesn't belong to us, really.  but, trauma has this mysterious way of convincing ourselves that we are shameful, we are guilty, we are wrong.  that's the ICr's manipulation of our mind, but that ICr didn't originate w/ us.  it was put there, pounded there, cemented there.

luckily, we are learning the tools to break thru that block of ICr noise.  you are learning them as well.  keep on going. 

and so happy for you that there's hope for continued sessions.  yay!  love and hugs

Hi San,

Thanks so much for the encouragement and support San, I so appreciate it.

I have been drinking caffeinated coffee the past few days.  I have been off caffeine for approx. 3 yrs, maybe more.  I am feeling a bit wired, okay a lot wired this morning not good for me.

This morning I have been reading about the definition of neurodivergency, superpowers of ADD (ADHD) and a reminder about the ADD symptoms because I forget them. 

I have experienced, on occasions since I'm off work, and usually when speaking to insurance people, lawyer, etc that I start to stutter.  It feels like my eyes are rolling backwards, they are closed and my brain is searching for words but it's blank. No words come out (feels like forever) and eventually only stutters come out. It seems to happen when I'm experiencing stress and talking with someone I don't feel safe with.  Actually it has happened with T come to think of it.  Usually when I'm trying to explain something so maybevits not necessarily about feeling safe. If this resonates with anyone let me know. I meant to mention to T yesterday but forgot. 

Today I would like to do laundry and cleaning,  will see how that goes. 

moondance, i have difficulty speaking to strangers, especially if they're in a position of authority. also difficulty understanding what they're saying, and often have to ask several times for clarification and explanation.  my words often don't come out the way i want, or my mind goes blank and i can't even find the words.  you're not alone w/ this.  it's so stressful.  several times i presented as an alternate persona - different personality, different way of speaking, different emotional response. 

our brains do what they think we need in order to keep us safe.  unfortunately, it can be at inconvenient times.  i'm with you on this.  love and hugs :hug:

Super frustrating to not feel like we control our words or speech.

It could still be related to safety even if it happens with T? Even though I feel very safe with mine, therapy is where the most extreme triggering tends to happen because we are touching close to the traumas.

Quote from: Moondance on April 28, 2023, 09:09:06 PM
I feel spent now - a call for rest is in order.

:cheer: for seeing you needed and - might I add - deserved rest!

I have problems with language too sometimes. Like in the weeks after I moved I felt so unsure in the language of the country where I live and was sure I was making mistakes all over the place, although I speak it fluently and have for a long time. I also sometimes stutter and have trouble finding the correct words in both my languages.

It actually has to do with an area of the brain called Broca's area. Here are a few links from our forum: https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=8320.msg57322#msg57322  https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13823.msg105676#msg105676  https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13986.msg107947#msg107947
and a quote from an old mbr, 3Roses: You may also be interested in Bessel Van Der Kolk's book "The Body Keeps The Score". He is one of the leading experts on the effects of traumatic injury on the brain. In his book, he discusses Broca's area, one of the speech centers of the brain, and how it goes "offline" during emotional flashbacks.  3Roses actually mentioned Broca's area to me in my intro thread on the forum because difficulty with language was something I mentioned in my very first post.

You are definitely not alone with this, Moondance! :hug:  Btw, I really like your name. :)

:wave:

Sanmagic - yes re strangers and authority figures. Thank you for responding and sharing your experience.

:bighug:

Armee - thank you as well.  I think your right that there is so much going on in T.  I'm not always present with T and don't even realize it til later.

:bighug:



Thank you so much for this Blueberry - the hug is appreciated, the support is appreciated, the info/links are appreciated

:bighug:

Just experienced had a  yuckie with M. 

But also I recognize that I have been excruciatingly hard on myself for not having a long term relationship.  And that even though I'm responsible for my behaviors in my relationships, a good part of why I was unable to be or have a long term relationship is because of the trauma I experienced at a young age and on. 

*****TRIGGER WARNING**** SA





I recall being at my home with partner and we were being intimate at the time.  When i got up and walked to the I found my M had let herself in and was sitting in the living room listening to us.  I don't know at what point she arrived.  The thought of this makes my stomach turn, and my head gets busy (if that makes sense) with feelings.  Is this dissociation? Quite possibly but not certain.  I cannot understand for the life of me why or how a mother could or would do this???!!! 
I want this memory to go away now.   :blowup: :rundog:

I'm so sorry. That is so wrong and intrusive of her to have done that.

Moondance, I shudder thinking about that.  It's a violation.  I'm sorry you had to experience it.  It reminds me of things that my M did and I feel you very much when you say you can't understand why or how.  I am standing with you  :hug:

I'm also being reminded of the crazy making lying, manipulations by so many.  I now doubt myself all the time.  I think that's the main reason I choose to isolate because then my brain doesn't have to go back and forth wondering if it's me, do I need to apologize, take responsibility for something  or maybe it's not my problem at all.  But pretending everything is okay is a trigger for me, this I know now.

I resonate with preferring to be away from others because it eliminates all the navigating of dynamics. 

Yes Rainydiary  :)

Hi Moondance,
I read some of your journal for the first time today, and wanted to say that I am glad you're here, and I also wanted to send you a supportive hug, if that's ok  :hug: 
Hope  :)

I so relate to the crazy making lying and manipulations. I didn't learn to recognize them until about a year before my M died. My sister could always see them even as a young kid. Once I saw them it was shocking how frequent and predictable they were. Like one thing could happen and then I could predict my mom's next 2 crazy lies and manipulations precisely. Ugh. Makes me want to explode thinking about it even now!

But yeah growing up like that is a form of brainwashing and takes some deprogramming. I have noticed - with a lot of sadness and care toward you - how often you doubt yourself and think you've done something wrong here, even though you've been an amazing support. It is sad.

I still do that too but it's a lot better now, less intense and less frequent. Perhaps you could practice here giving yourself the benefit of the doubt? You can even keep truth checking with us when you are feeling worried about whether you've done something "wrong" but perhaps even give yourself the benefit of the doubt when you do that, to start training that automatic response? Something like "I'm worried I said something wrong, but I think that worry might be from my history with my M. But I want to double check. Did I accidentally offend you?" That way you start to doubt the doubt, which is what deserves the doubt, not you.

You are extremely kind and gentle and valued. I wish all our parents had not taken advantage of these traits in us to manipulate and brainwash us, but they did.

 :wave:

Thank you for the warm welcome Hope67.

I appreciate your virtual hug 🫂  back at you.

 :hug:

That was so intrusive of your M to do that. It's good to read that you understand the intrusiveness and you're not just taking blame for it. That's a strong step forward.

Here's another hug from another human being who knows the sting of parents who routinely tromp on our boundaries, and who humiliate us without remorse.  SHAME ON THEM! Not on us. We're the innocent prey here. They're the calloused aggressors...the bullies.

:bighug:

The past few days have been really difficult. 

I've been unable to write in my journal because I'm overwhelmed, no doubt EF's.  I have searched out ways to better deal with EF's so that it takes less time for me to recover.  This will take time and practice.

My session with T this morning was good.  We were able to identify the EF's and work through it.  I clearly heard T say and i understood that the "crazy" thoughts in my head are because my adult self and my child(s) self are both thinking, reacting at the same time making it impossible for me to respond/react because both want to respond causing a quagmire in my head.  This is my explanation of what she basically said but I understand it, that's the main thing. 

I also realized, through this session with T why I'm so frustrated, so impatient with myself all the time, to the point of raging at myself.    Aside from the IC in me it's because of the years of suppressed anger.  I realize that even in abusive situations I remained kind. And even after the fact I remained kind.  I've always been kind, I know this and I believe that because I'm so kind it has allowed further abuse.  I'm so * at myself for being so * kind. Having said that I don't know how else to be.  I've also felt really good about myself for being a kind gentle soul, especially after all that I've been through.  It is either quite amazing that this part of me remains in me or perhaps it's just really stupid and mad.  Or maybe it's just that it was so engrained in me that I know no other way.

I continue to read numerous posts but simply don't have the energy for anything else and for that I feel sad. I do realize I must look after myself first. I learn so much from you all - thank you.

So this week my plan is to go driving, cranking up the volume and let some of this suppressed anger out.  Will see how that goes!

Arrested Relational Development- arises when someone is unable or unwilling to protect, take care of, or address the emotional vulnerability they are experiencing due to concerns for physical safety or emotional expression.

I read the above definition this week and it so resonates with me. At today's session with T we also discussed this and I acknowledge this huge struggle.

Moondance,

I have felt some similar feelings. I too remain kind no matter what. I can curse up a storm at people when I'm alone, or locked away in the safety of my own car or my own home, but when it's time to confront, I fawn all over my "enemies" and give them every chance to behave nicely. I have given away my power, my money, my back bedrooms, etc, to people who didn't deserve my kindness but got it anyway. I've been called everything from a weak, ball-less man to a bleeding heart, but in the end, I'm always glad that I've erred on the side of kindness rather than bullying to get my way.  Every now and then I find out that someone I knew years ago, never forgot the kindness I gave them. Whenever this happens, I feel like all the suffering I did for being too kind, was worth it.  I know that for me, I'd rather be a nail than a hammer. I want to live my life having never hurt anyone. That's impossible to accomplish fully, but to accomplish it even partially is a win.

The best thing I did for myself was to read a few books on sociopaths. Some of these books are short, easy reads, others are more in debth.  Somehow, for me to truly learn how simple and predictable people with anti-social behaviors (Narcissists, Sociopaths, Borderline Personality Disorder (BPDs), etc.) really are, has helped me to see them so clearly that I naturally stop being too kind to THEM. Being really well versed on knowing how hateful they really are gives me the permission deep within me to stop being too kind to them. I can feel them reaching into my head and pullling out my lunch money, so my natural inclination to be kind to them seems to be easier to control.

This way, I can still be kind to people who don't present with Narcissistic tendencies. I can still be kind to everyone else while feeling no guilt in not giving a narcissist my lunch money.

The books I like to recommend, from the easiest read to the more detailed are: 1) In Sheep's Clothing, by Dr. George K Simon. 2) Emotional Vampires, by Albert Bernstein, and 3) The Sociopath Next Door by Dr. Martha Stout. These books are all easy reads and have opened my eyes to the presence of narcissism, so clearly that I say I can now smell a narcissist from two blocks away. Just being able to see them clearly has given me the power to ignore them completely, and to focus my kindness on people who aren't trying to screw me over to take what's mine.

But for today, I hope you really enjoy driving around with the radio turned up high. That just sounds like a great way to blow off some steam and maybe see some sights. Take some roads you aren't familiar with so you can explore a new world while de-stressing from the old world.

Have some fun with the de-stressing drive!

Thank you for relating PC and for the support. Reading that someone relates and your shared experience gives me a sense of relief.

I also really appreciate the book referrals which I will look into. 

My brother texted this morning asking if I am up to a call today.  Definitely not up to a call today or naybe never.   The last time we spoke a had a feeling he was upset with me and I suspect he is not being honest with me.
Although I said no, not a good time for me.  I am unable and have no desire to xause myself further hurt right now. And then i wonder maybe he'll never ask again. Why would I have concern about that I wonder since I really don't want to speak with him anyway.  His words are violent.  He was violent.  I recall our lives being threatened as we barricaded ourselves behind the door, pulling the table, chairs to door to stop him from coming inside. I have to be in a better state to speak with him. But he is my blood, I should be able to talk with him. I feel guilt and shame when I know I really should not. 

The only reason we reconnected is because F passed in October.  When we did reconnect I requested he keep our conversation confidential.  He has not.

I understand why he is the way he is.   He is the opposite of me.  It is the same reason I am the way I am. 

I am really struggling with removing my prior post.  I keep telling myself, right or wrong, will written or not, sense or no sense I need to honour myself  and leave it.  Fear of rejection here is real for me.

Moondance,

Whatever you decide to do, I support you 1000%.

If it were me, I'd ignore him.

I'm estranged from my FOO, so I know the joy of being free from them. But I remember how incredibly painful it was to walk away and change all my phone numbers and email addresses. So that's why I say that if you choose to take a call from him, I'll support you in that too. Estrangement is a deep issue, that brings up all the emotions of the human experience.

You owe him nothing. If he took the same abuse you did, and chose to become a monster, then that's just who he is. A monster. It was his choice to be cruel and condescending. Let him live with it. In true estrangements, I don't even recommend telling them why. ANY contact is like any fish trying to eat the bait without being hooked by the steal hook hidden within.

Hollywood has given us countless movies where the bad sibling softens and apologizes in the end. That's BullSt. In real life, Ebenezer Scrooge never becomes nice in the end. It's been my experience that once a bully, always a bully.

You said he didn't respect your privacy the last time you talked with him. So, again, I personally had to estrange from the entire family because anyone I talked with shared everything I said (and usually out of context to make me look like a bad person).

If you choose to talk with him, I support you because I know the pain of estrangement. If you choose to not answer the text or the phone, I support you because I know that for me, in my own life, my family meant me harm. They had me to within 15 minutes of suicide the last time I ever talked with them. I had to make the choice; My FOO or my life. I chose my life.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

 
Wow validation means so much right now. Wow and that you support me either way means just as much. 

I choose not to speak with him because I do not need to feel any crazier than I already do.

This is how I feel with my FOO

:sharkbait:

 :hug:

My heart says you don't owe him anything. Just because he's blood doesn't mean you have to subject yourself to someone who has been physically verbally  and emotionally violent to you. If he has somehow changed his ways and wants to make true amends, I think that would show through in the way in which he contacts you. I think it would be ok and very protective and loving to ignore any request for communication that doesn't show someone who has grown and changed and is ready to make true amends.

Thank you Armee   :hug:

I agree with you Armee and thank you for your input - much appreciated.

This reminded me Armee that I have sat down with most of my FOO to make amends, asking for their forgiveness for my wrong doings - to take responsibility for my part. I certainly did not do that years ago expecting anything in return but talking about it know  I do not recall any of them coming to me and taking responsibility for any wrong doings towards me.  Oh well at least I did my part.

I hope your visit with past co-worker went okay Armee.

Moondance,

I like your shark emoji to describe your FOO. I have been known to tell people that I was raised by sharks, and anytime I felt vulnerable, they sensed the blood in the water and had feeding frenzies on me. They'd all believe whatever lies were being told, and I'd be, once again, ganged up on by my own F*****g family.

I didn't fully estrange until I was 50 years old. My reason for waiting so long is that I believed them all those years; that I was the cause of all their misery. But in 2010, they finally became so ugly that even I couldn't love them anymore. Estrangement happened, my creativity was unleashed, and my life improved many times over.

I'm glad to hear you were able to make your decision yesterday. I support it fully.

:hug:

 :hug:

I resonate with one sided experiences in relationships. 

Thank you so much Rainydiary, Sanmagic7, and Papa Coco for your support, for relating, and always encouraging in a gentle caring way.  I'm just recognizing  this,  that I feel a  comfort whenever hearing from any of you. 

****TRIGGER WARNING -CSA****


It has been a tough week.  I started off the week with a memory of my 16 year old self in a very unsafe, un-cared for situation that my father put me in.  The memory did not include SA, only a feeling that something bad happened.  Or it could be as a result of drinking so much alcohol.  I remember waking up on a bed crying, sobbing uncontrollably.  I believe I was in a stupor from the alcohol. 

My dad was away for the weekend and he left me with his friends to look after me.  Are you kidding me???!!!! These men, I do not recall any women there ( just started to feel dizzy and nauseated)  were not to be trusted with a 16 year old.    That's enough for now but that is how my week started.

This situation happened maybe 6 months after I had been raped at gunpoint, blamed for putting myself in that situation, then put in a psych ward, then kicked out by my M and moved in with my biological father, who was an alcoholic with no morals.    I was in a vulnerable state to say the least.

And I still have the gull to sometimes believe I'm an imposter, that really this wasn't all that bad.  My FOO told me they loved me, they provided shelter, food, clothing, etc.  I should be grateful and stop making such a fuss.

The only thing is I can barely function anymore. 

It is good to write this all down however difficult for me and most likely most of us.  I can remember things that happened, and have but I have also been able to forget them again or stuff them somewhere not to be remembered again for awhile.  Writing it down for me makes it real.

I'm getting super frustrated because every word I type is wrong because I'm hitting the wrong Keyes.  Grrrrrrr!!!

I'm sorry. Moondance. Whether they loved you or not this was massive harmful neglect. Which is a failure on their part to adequately protect you.  I'm sorry these things happened. You do not need to feel bad about feeling anger or disappointment toward people who did not take care of you properly. And they did not. And they have not made amends. You get to feel however you feel. You've been through too much. It makes sense to go through periods of time where functioning is difficult. Be gentle about that. You'll get on your feet again. The bad stretches are not permanent. I'll hold that belief  for you for now.

Oh my gosh I'm actually so angry at them. How could they take a 16 year old who they know has gone through a massive trauma at the hands of men and put her in a situation like that??? Even if they were safe, which I doubt they were, how would anyone feel in that situation after what you'd been through?

The tears are flowing because I feel acknowledged - thank you for hearing me, jt means so much.

This is a place for me to heal, no doubt in my mind, heart and soul about that.   I'm just so thankful for finding this forum.

And thank you for holding that belief that the bad stretches are not permanent, that feels so supportive for me.

I always read the whole posts but often respond to the 1st point or 2 and forget the rest.  My retention is really bad.

Moondance,

I'm mortified by your stories of how your parents pushed you into these abusive situations at only 16.  OMG!  I'm so so sorry that this was done to you.

I can sense the anxiety you're feeling right now and I don't blame you. I'd be the same way if I were telling these stories. The way you have a hard time typing, is so like me. I can tell I'm in a frustration when I can't stop fat-fingering every single word. I believe that a sudden loss of ability to type is a form of stress-induced dissociation. A common C-PTSD trait.

I want to address your concerns about that problem most of us on the forum have, that we feel like we don't deserve to complain, and that everyone else's life was worse than ours and we feel ashamed of airing our "non-problems", when in reality, you are correct, it does NOT matter which of us had the worst childhoods.  Every single one of us on this forum is dealing with trauma disorders that did not come to us from having a couple of bad days in our lives. Trauma disorders come from serious, life-threatening situations. Each of us has the equal right to air our stories, because each of us has the trauma disorders to prove they were bad stories. I'm glad to read that you seem to have a handle on that.

My theory is that we lived our lives minimizing what was done to us so that we could survive it. Humans are resilient, and some of that resilience is found in minimizing our pain and moving on with it. I think that we have all reached an age where we realize we've minimized our pain long enough. Like capping off a leaking hose, eventually the pressure builds up and the hose bursts. We're all to that point of bursting, which is why each of us went out onto the web and searched out this forum. We're here because minimizing our childhoods didn't work.

I'm very sorry to hear what you've been through, but very glad you are able to articulate it, and share it with people who are kind and compassionate and able to fully grasp the pain it caused you. You're NOT alone in that respect.  I hope that our compassion and understanding is helpful to you as you recover these memories and share them with people who can be trusted.

 :wave:

Papa Coco,

Yes Papa Coco- every single time I am on tge forum, whether I am able to write or not, or read posts, or learn something, I almost always feel I can exhallllllle afterwords.

PS - I also laughed out loud at your post about the dent in new car.  Thank you for being transparent, always.

:grouphug:

moondance, i share armee's anger at having you put into a dangerous situation w/o care or consideration.  so harmful, so abusive, so negligent.  and you're right, a lot of us try to 'shoo' our reality away by telling ourselves it wasn't that bad, others have gone thru much worse, i should've done something different . . . that's the insidiousness of trauma.  it tries to make us believe it was us at fault, puts the blame, guilt, and shame on ourselves instead of where it belongs - on the people who did this to us.

none of our abuse is our fault.  it's not your fault, it's not mine.  it was the fault of others, either passively or aggressively.  you're not to blame for your abuse.  at all.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you so much for all of your support, relating, encouragement - I really so appreciate it.

I've been feeling pretty overwhelmed these past couple of weeks so I haven't really written much.

I have to say though that "Finding my Feelings" is what has been happening.  Really just all over the place;
feeling anger, frustration, triggered, sad, mad and some glad.  I am thankful for the movement in feeling
as all I really have felt for the past year is major depressed/anxious and unsafe.  For me movement of
feeling is good in a way.  But then there is the aftermath of dealing with these feelings and I'm really not
very good at that. 

I avoid a lot of things and that is exactly what I did with Mother's day today.  It's painful on 2 levels for me; the
choice to have children was taken away from me when I was raped and my M sucked.  I've not been in contact
with her for maybe 4-5 years now (I forget) and I'm good with that.    I kept myself distracted today my working
in my yard, preparing for planting on the May long weekend or shortly thereafter.  I haven't planted veggies for
years and will try that this year as well as flowers.  I really enjoy gardening as many of you do as well. :) 

I think about all of you and hope you are all doing okay. 

I hope you found or find your way to the garden. 

Hi Moondance, your story resonated deeply in me.  I can identify with having a very hard time with relationships, having few people in my life, and isolating at home so much, among other things.  I'm truly sorry they want to cut your therapy short, especially after you have found a good therapist.  I'm very glad you have found us.  This is an outstanding group of people here.  I don't post too much, but post when I can. 

Hi Rainydiary- thank you! Yes I did make it to the garden and really enjoyed it.  I did have to compensate physically to get things done but so thankful I was able to figure out how to get things done.  Bending and getting  back up is quite difficult.

Hi Naturuvr - I am so sorry for you that my story resonates with you.  I so don't wish this on anyone.  I am thankful in a way though because I don't feel so alone and hopefully you don't as well since joining the forum.
I so appreciate your post.

I'm so sorry for your loss of the chance at motherhood, Moondance. So much was taken. Makes me want to scream in anger and also to wrap you up in a big hug.  :bighug: :grouphug:

Aww thank you Armee.  I felt the warmth of your post and thank you for the big hug.

A warm big hug back to you Armee. 

i think gardening was a great way to spend the day, moondance.  i'm watching my little seedlings come up right now.  it's very grounding for me. 

sometimes this whole 'family is the most important' thing is way over-emphasized.  for some of us, family has caused us more pain than anyone else.  like you w/ your mom, i've been separated from my eldest D1 (my choice) for over 7 1/2 yrs., and altho i have an ache in my heart, i know that trying to jump back in would only result in terrible distress and abuse for me.  staying strong right beside you.  love and hugs :hug:

Hi Sanmagic7,

sometimes this whole 'family is the most important' thing is way over-emphasized.  for some of us, family has caused us more pain than anyone else.  like you w/ your mom, i've been separated from my eldest D1 (my choice) for over 7 1/2 yrs., and altho i have an ache in my heart, i know that trying to jump back in would only result in terrible distress and abuse for me.  staying strong right beside you.  love and hugs


I so agree with you Sannagic7 (love your name!) It has been over-emphasized. I so relate when you say, "I have an ache in my heart and know that jumping back in would cause terrible distress".   Thank you for your validation. For your care and standing beside me. This means a lot to me.   :bighug:


I'm pretty certain i am not alone in this - because of our terrible FOO i believe that many of us feel the longing and ache for a "whole" family?   It interesting to me that after all I have gone through with my FOO that I have, throughout my life, have really valued family.  And I think that's why it was so important to me to have my own family.  A husband, children- looking back know I think, thank goodness I did not, especially children, because I was too affected and would have passed it all on.

This brings me to a thought about my long term relationship with S.  I will call him Sam. I will post about this once in a lifetime relationship.  The only long term relationship I have had. 

I never get tired of saying thank you to you all, this forum, Kizzie for all your hard work. I so appreciate you sharing your stories which I am learning so much from. 

:grouphug:

moondance, i feel the same way about my D's not having children - so glad they didn't.  both of them have been wounded, and there is a great deal of mental illness in my family, some of which was unknown until much later.  so, we have the families we have, and i include this forum as part of that.  family of choice - i've heard that term for many years, and i'm living it in real time now.  most of my FOO is dead, so that problem's been taken off the board for me years ago. 

also, thank you for being here.  you're a valuable member.  love and hugs :hug:

I think I dissociate more than I'm aware of.

I think that because I lose spaces of time.  I forget so much.

I feel really exhausted again, still?  I didn't wake up til 1030 this morning and have no energy to do anything. I think I'll to back to sleep. That feels easiest right now.

I decided to try to draw imagine of person in last night's dream. She doesn't look at all like me.    It was a strange dream.  I want to keep track of my dreams.

In the dream, there were several rooms, the rooms were outside, surrounded by trees, blue skies and shrubs.  I dont recall flowers and i love flowers.  There were only 3 walls for each room, allowing me to see inside each room.  Each room had cages with hundreds of monkeys in each room.  There were both adult and child monkeys. 

One child monkey came to me, she wanted to be saved.  I held her tight in my arms. This makes me cry, perhaps it is someone I know.perhaps it's me.  Not sure.

The imagine I drew and I don't draw is of a young woman, dark features against her pale skin, she had a nose ring and wore red, colorful clothing.  She had so much love to give, she wanted to save all the monkeys, each and everyone, both adult and child monkeys.  She knew she could only save the one(s) who came to her.  Everytime she approached and reached out they ran away.

I named the drawing, "Seriously saving the monkeys". 

Moondance I think it's great that you are tuned into and paying attention to your dreams.  I personally believe our dreams are a deep part of us - at least they are for me. 

"One child monkey came to me, she wanted to be saved.  I held her tight in my arms. This makes me cry, perhaps it is someone I know.perhaps it's me.  Not sure." 

My first thought was, perhaps this monkey represents your inner child, but I don't know.  I think it's lovely and healthy that you held this child monkey tight in your arms. 

"She had so much love to give, she wanted to save all the monkeys, each and everyone, both adult and child monkeys.  She knew she could only save the one(s) who came to her.  Everytime she approached and reached out they ran away."

This shows wisdom here, that only the ones who come to us can be saved. 

I agree with you Natureluvr, I believe the child I held in my dream is my inner child.

The monkeys that run away, well I'm not sure they all need saving, I wonder if it's my fear of abandonment showing up?  It is a vicious circle it seems, fear of abandonment, attachment issues, boundary issues,  :blahblahblah:

I feel really numb, perhaps doing too muchor thinking too much.  I have been sleeping even more than usual.

My therapy under insurance company is done and I've submitted a request for funding.  It is quite possible that having completed therapy under insurance company my body is taking yet another breath.  It seems i don't realize it when I'm under stress, only when that stress is removed do I notice that oh yeah that was not good at all.

It doesn't take much for my thoughts to get muddled. 

***Possible TW***


There was an issue with my TV, streaming device.  Anyway I had it set in my mind what the problem was.  When I tried to explain the issue on the phone I thought I was clear headed.  The person on the phone tried to explain how they interpreted the issue.  I've experienced this before where I believe I have an understanding of something and someone is trying to explain otherwise.

This time I let go of my understanding of how things are/work more readily.  I apologized for my muddled head.  I sensed she was anxious to get of the line with me.  I don't blame her.  I understand how I express myself is, not sure what, uncomfortable, anxiety ridden, agitated, nonsensical.

I haven't always been readily wanting to let go of my own understanding of whatever.

I recall a recurring dream, every single night,  I used to have around the age of 10-12.  Not sure whether the dream is connected but at the age of 12 I no longer wanted to live.

Dream - I'm falling off a bridge into a body of water.  The weeds rap around my legs, pulling me down, I fight with all my might, every single night for a couple of years, each time waking up in fear, my body was afraid.  I, myself did not recall the dream, nor did I think I was afraid,  until years later I remembered the dream and how I stopped having the dream.  When I say I didn't recall the dream until years later I mean I knew I was having a dream but didn't really consciously recall it.  Not sure how to explain this.  I became more conscious the longer I had the dream.

Anyway, one night, after having this dream for a couple of years i was so used to having the dream that i expected the dream every night.   Not sure exactly when the dream started for sure. Was it 2 years, 1 year or more than 2 years...muddled.

I decided I would let the weeds pull me down, let myself drown in the dream.  I did not wake up in fear. I recall feeling free. I stopped fighting.  I did drown in the dream and the dream drowned because I never had the dream again.

Reminder to self, I am safe right now. Rest in that you are safe little Moondance.

yes, little moondance, you are safe right now.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you Sanmagic7  :hug:

I'm not sure if I should post this or how to.

I am having overwhelming feelings of shame, embarrassment,  anxiety, abandonment, doubt  bout myself etc, etc. 

This has come up for me on this forum a couple of times because i do have a lot of doubt about my thoughts; what is real and what isn't.

I find this incredibly difficult and upsetting.  I always feel I do things or say things that pushes people away.

I guess I need validation or confirmation either way.  Please be gentle as I feel I'm breaking in half typing this. 

I believe this is so upsetting for me because this forum and you all mean something to me but more importantly it is my only way to interact with others on this whole planet.

Having said that it occurred to me that this fear and all these feelings perhaps are in part a result of my attachment issues.

I have huge difficulty being vulnerable about my insecurities, doubts as I have not had good experiences - hence the difficulty I guess.

Now I'm going around in circles so I will leave it at that.

I really don't mean to push people away but always do, somehow.  I need to know the somehow so I can stop or be better.

Darn it all and I feel awful for even writing above.  I feel I have to to get to the other side if that makes sense.

 :bighug:

Please let me assure you you have done nothing wrong nor have you said or not said anything wrong. These feelings are only from the past. They are not from the present. So many of us struggle with the exact same fear here and the almost exact same cause as well.  :grouphug:

It'll ease up a little with time and exposure, seeing you can write things here and no one is going to hurt you, accuse you, or otherwise make you feel you've done something wrong.

I think what you've done here is brilliant - asking outright. That is how to ease that fear overtime. Put yourself out there, then ask when you are worried ..did I offend or hurt you?

I'm glad you are here and that you are bravely putting yourself out there and testing these waters gently.

Omg thank you Armee.

This is so very painful - not your response but being vulnerable, putting myself out there.

You said, "These feelings are only from the past.  They are not from the present."
I find this very soothing - for the moment anyway.  I appreciate it and hopefully I will remember this next time.

moondance, you're not pushing me away.  i know those feelings that you speak of about being vulnerable here, and, for me, it's gotten better over time, but i still get them now and again.  it's little steps, and they all count.  i've found this forum to be filled w/ people who are caring, non-judgmental, and extremely supportive. 

you are showing your courage by putting your truth out here and hopefully it will help you know yourself better, know your trauma better, and know you are here w/ the rest of us all doing the same thing.  you belong.  please know you can't have right or wrong feelings, right or wrong truths.  if they're yours, that is enough, you are enough and every part of you is welcomed and appreciated.  sending love and a hug full of support, validation, and confirmation.   :hug:

First of all thank you so much Sanmagic7 for the validation, support, and confirmation.  I very much appreciate it.  I agree this forum is filled with extremely  supportive, caring and non-judgmental people.  That is most likely what makes this so difficult, because I find myself wanting to be part of, when I had all but given up being a part of anything.  It brings up fear, abandonment, attachment, insecurities, etc, etc. This is why I'm unable to be out there because I'm unable to deal with anything without having  EF's and whatever else. 

I wish this would just stop. It's like something takes over and there seems to be nothing that makes me believe I am enough.  I hear your words and I hear them softly and caring. 

When this happens   
This is the part that hurts to the core and makes me want to stop trying, because it happens over and over again.  I can't seem to change  it.  I guess because I really don't believe I'm enough.  It's a vicious circle. 

Yet I have said these very same things to others in support and encouragement.  I can believe for others but not myself it seems.  CPTSD is brutal. 

I'm awake and it's 4,am. I can't go to sleep, maybe later.  I woke up remembering a bad dream from a past  workplace.  Just another situation where I was made fun of, mistreated, bullied and betrayed. 

No doubt this dream is directly related to the above post.    I do not recall a time when I was not made fun of, bullied, betrayed,  starting of course with the neglect/abuse from FOO. 

I see T Friday and am looking forward to it. 

I want to apologize for all this but I won't.  Instead I want to acknowledge I need support, encouragement, care, validation right now in the hopes it will pass and lessen with time.

:grouphug:

hey, moondance, i'm glad you didn't apologize - i saw nothing that needed apologizing for.  instead i see someone who, like the rest of us, is caught in the clutches of the c-ptsd beast.  brutal is apt.  so is insidious.  unfair also.  it's what we're battling here.  i've been on this forum for over 7 yrs. and it continues to be relevant for me.  as do the people.  best people i've never met.

you took a brave step by revealing your insecurities.  they can be difficult to deal w/, let alone exposed to others.  and, as far as i'm concerned you are enough. i think a lot of us have been able to send supportive words to others and mean it, yet not be able to take them in for ourselves.  step by step.  sending love and a hug full of support and encouragement  :hug:

Thank you just doesn't cut it -  :hug:

t the age of 12 I no longer wanted to live.

Moondance, this breaks my heart.  I, too, have had this same feeling many times, and still do get it on occasion. 

I am having overwhelming feelings of shame, embarrassment,  anxiety, abandonment, doubt  bout myself etc, etc. 

I'm glad that you posted this.  I'm sorry that you are dealing with these emotions, but I'm glad you shared this on the forum, because I, too, have had these very same feelings about myself.  I felt this way very much when I was 13 years old.  I also relate to feeling as though you are pushing people away.  I also, have had the experience of other people running away from me.  I don't know it it's because I pushed them away, or because my issues scared them off. 

:thumbup: I think it was brave of you to share these things on here with us, and I know it helps me feel less alone, so thank you. 

You are being brave to share your feelings with us. Thank you. Those are difficult feelings to have. I hold what you shared with gentleness and kindness toward you.

Thank you Natureluvr for relating - yes that always makes me feel not so alone in this.   :bighug:

Thank you Not Alone - your response brought tears, you touched a place in my heart that needs to heal.   :bighug:

------‐----

Unfortunately I have these feelings a lot.  I'm pretty certain that is what makes me feel so hopeless at times (as you mentioned Natureluvr) because although I've tried through the years to change this it has actually gotten worse.   If I'm not in relationship then I'm fine, well i think im fine but I'm not.   ???

I'm usually very in tune with others and can tell if something is up or if something is different. Usually, but maybe not, I don't know anymore.

Honestky, what precipated these feelings in me this time is that a bunch of people who were posting regularly in my journal stopped.  Although a left it for about a week it got the better of me, actually the worse of me.   ;D

The thing is, every time this happens and it turns out my perception is wrong it's one more time that my perception of what i think is really happening is wrong which creates further doubt in myself.  Vicious circle. 

I agree with you Natureluvr it could be me pushing others away or it could be my issues (me) that are scaring them off.  If that is the case though I would really like to know. 

Perhaps it is that I appear to be very needy (and I don't realize that is how I'm expressing myself) or it could be that I try to hard which would also give the "very needy" feeling to others and scare them off. 

I hope there are tangible ways i can learn to make this change for the better because this is making me feel crazy. 

This brought me wonderment.  I found a flower called Moondance.

 :grouphug:

You don't come across as needy at all or in any way shape or form off-putting.

For me personally, sometimes it's just hard to know how best to respond to a specific post, or more often when I open a post and it seems to deserve more focus and attention than I have to give at that moment, then I put it to the side until I have the bandwidth it deserves. And then if others do the same it doesn't pop up in my updates post list and I lose it. Some posts I can respond to pretty quickly and I do as soon as I open them and some I accidentally lose because I want to wait until I can do it justice.

There's nothing wrong with anything you've written, there's nothing wrong with being worried about this. Truly we all have these worries because of the similarities in how we were raised. We have been taught that we always need to be on guard for what we might have done "wrong" so we can anticipate the abuse. That's all that is happening here.

That and a bunch of people with complex trauma trying our best to heal and support others as we can and have the bandwidth. I find it helpful to think about my journal as being a place for me to post my thoughts, and any messages of support I get are so fantastic but thinking about it as being for me and the responses as bonuses is helpful when this type of self-doubt creeps in.

Love to you, you are good. Eventually you'll start to trust yourself more.  :grouphug:

 :bighug:

Thank you so much for your post Armee - it makes perfect sense of course that we don't always have the time to respond to another's post when it requires a more focused and attentive response.  That did occur to me and I questioned myself on that but that doubt gets me.  I even thought how much more embarrassed will I be if that was the case.

I would like to declare this topic closed hahaha - til the next time because there will be a next time - I'm still open to talking more or receiving posts about it but I don't want anyone to feel they have to respond further.

Thank goodness I found this forum because I sure need it.  ;D   

 :hug:

We all need it.  :grouphug:

moondance, i just looked up the moondance rose and it's absolutely breathtaking!  it's your goodness in flower form.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you so much Armee, that makes me feel part of.

Awww Thank you Sanmagic7, I certainly felt that, it's your goodness in flower form.  You are so compassionate and kind and it's very much appreciated.

  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

I heard someone say "a hardened mountain" and then wrote this poem. I want to record it in my journal.

I stand alone
It's my choice
I'm like a hardened mountain
A solid rock, without movement
Inside or out
Not giving in
I'm also like a rugged tree
Affected by the winds, the storms,
The breezes, the whispers,
The rain.
The inhabitants
How does a hardened mountain soften?
How does a rugged tree survive
The elements?
Perhaps by reaching for heights unknown
Standing tall
Allowing the land to provide
All that is needed.
It's my choice

Moondance, thank you for sharing the poem.

I read the following on a site, don't remember which one.  But I thought of you all when I read it.

*******

Some of the kindest souls

I know have lived in a world that was not so kind to them.  Some of the best human beings I know have been through so much at the hands of others, and they still love deeply, they still care.  Sometimes, it's the people who have been hurt the most who refuse to,be hardened in this world,  because they would never want to make another feel the same way they have felt. If that isn't something to be in awe of, I don't know what is.

Bianca Sparacino

moondance, it reminds me of the people here, the ones who chose to be caring and loving and compassionate ins spite of what they went thru.  our abusers took the other route.  it's beyond my understanding, but i guess some of it is due to human nature, brain chemistry . . . i don't know.  i just know it's real, and this forum is living proof of it.  thanks for being here.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you Rainydiary and Sanmagic7.

 :hug:

Yeah well I struggle with lots of things but major depression/anxiety, of course CPTSD and ADD.

Today is my birthday. I really do not want to celebrate.  I feel shame and guilt for feeling this way.  I resent being born.  Saying that goes against any beliefs I did have when living in the positive, when living a better life shall we say.   That seems so long ago now.

There is nowhere else I can really talk about this, say how I really feel.  And I don't want to erase or delete it.  I want to own me going forward. The good, the bad and the ugly. Well here at least I want to be authentic to myself. 

I don't think I can move forward if I don't.  Keeping in mind of course to not dwell in it.

Geez there I go already. The thoughts of what I should do, want to do, how I should feel, want to feel or allow myself to feel and acknowledge.

It feels like my adult self says, no no you should not feel this way, it's negative, non-productive, depressing to others - get over it and deal with it.  My little child says, even saying that bring strong emotional pain, she wants acceptance and love exactly where she is at, lumps and bumps and all.  She wants to be held and cared for.  I recall thinking and feeling this always. That I just want to go somewhere where I can be looked after.
 
I stopped typing and went somewhere after writing that.


I would like to be present here as much as possible so I will stop journaling for now.

Moondance, I am celebrating your birth and also understand the struggle about birthdays.  I appreciate you reflecting here and sharing it all. 

Thank you Rainydiary

 :hug:

Thank you Sanmagic7  :hug:

***********

I am frustrated, overwhelmed and angry.

I saw my doctor today.  I made the appointment for a couple of reasons.  I needed a form filled out, prescriptions, physio referral, referral re skin issues,
Referral for psychiatrist.

1.  Form was filled out but probably will not be effective as she is not trauma I informed.  I think she thinks I'm well enough to work. I got upset in the office and swore that nobody really understands.  I was having difficulty getting Any words out and then swore.

In hindsight I should have said I do not feel you understand CPTSD and uts effects on a person.  That did not seem to be an option at the time.

Before I bring any forms to her I fill out as best and as much as I can.  Some of the questions have answers to pick from - no limitations, some limitations, very limited capacity. 

For example

Mental functions necessary for everyday life...

Perception of reality - distinguishing reality from delusions and hallucinations.

I pre-filled out with answer - some limitations distinguishing reality from delusions because I feel I do.  She said no, you have no limitations and then said you are not schizophrenic are you.   ???  ???

Pretty sure that set me off and was unable to respond to that.    The thing is if she knew anything about
CPTSD she would know that some symptoms of schizophrenia are similar to CPTSD.


2.  I did get prescriptions.  She asked if they were working. I said yes but really if I am struggling this much perhaps not.   :'(  I really need to see a psychiatrist to assess that and see regularly.  She said this will be very difficult.  I requested suggestions, she did not have any suggestions.  She said it would be a long wait.  After a few minutes, I was able to say please put me on the list. Better to start waiting now that 3 or 6 or 9 mths down the road.  ???  ??? It's already been over a year since last phone appointment with psychiatrist.

3.  She did provide a physio referral.

4.  She will refer me to a skin doctor, I can't remember the correct name at the moment.  I want to get this post out.


Also my appointment was at a specific time.  There was 1 patient ahead when I walked in.  I do not know what time her appointment was but when the doc came out she said I will see her first, before you. When she said that I took it to mean, at the time, that I was next but she would see her first which really upset me as this is not the first time she has seen another patient before me. 
 
It is possible though that their appointment was booked for a time prior to mine.  I really don't know that for sure but then why would she say, I will see this patient first.

Even though I'm no longer meeting with T because insurance company is not funding any further therapy I think I will email her and ask her to fill out this form.  It's an important document for disability tax credit so just a bit important that it be filled with an understanding about my disability.  Geez whizzzzzz

Well at least I have it recorded should I need it

Now I am exhausted  :fallingbricks:

dealing with uninformed professionals about trauma and c-ptsd is exhausting.  and frustrating.  and disheartening.  many of us have similar experiences when trying to get help to make us more functional in the world.  it sounded rude to me, moondance, the part about trying to 'diagnose' you when that's not her field. and, by the by, i also find it difficult to keep my cool when talking to these types of people.

so we learn, prepare, and be more ready for the next time.  i think it's a good idea to get your former T to fill out that form.  being a professional seems to hold more weight for these people. please be gentle w/ yourself, ok?  love and hugs :hug:

I feel retraumatized when I see her. I think I need to look for another doctor. One that is informed.

Why do i get so angry that now i have a desire to retaliate?
I was never like that before.  In the past i have always just done nothing, didn't feel angry, I would just let it go.  Yesterday I was thinking that I will go back to her office and drop off some CPTSD information for her. And now I'm thinking I could Google a review but that would be for all to see wouldn't it.  I certainly can't do that.
 
I'm feel that since I crashed and am off work I have been (like many of us) bullied, lied to, gaslighted
Etc, etc, by insurance and doctors including psychologist.  With the exception of my current T, well was my T because insurance has cut that off.  They are not helping with the healing process.  I should (adult self) think of this as an opportunity to work on healing.  My little child says no, I really don't want to.

After I've settled I will regroup but yes San it is definitely disheartening.

My dear friend, I will call him A moved back after being away for several years. 

We have known each other for 30 + years. The only friend I have ever had really. 

The plan, years ago was that A would always have a place to live when he came back.

It has been almost a year since A's return. 

At one time we were a couple, for a short while until I got triggered and I dissociated. I was not able to sustain an intimate relationship with him. Actually I was 32 yrs old at the time so 30 yrs ago, wow.

At that time I blamed him, it was his fault because of his behaviour I thought.  I know see things or have a better idea of what was happening back then now that I know a bit more about CPTSD.  I kept getting EF's and was triggered, unbeknownst to me at the time.

In short my fears, abandonment issues, attachment and relational issues were rampant even then.

When we were a couple A's son/girlfriend had a daughter.  They were really young and so A and I almost always spent precious time with GD (granddaughter) every weekend.  I feel I was super blessed in so many ways because of this relationship. And that even after we were no longer a couple I continued to spent time with her on the weekends.  A would often come over every weekend and we were all still very close. Well as close as I could/would allow I guess.

All to say there is a lot of history there.  When A decided to live his dream - sail the world my world fell apart.  Again I wasn't aware of that at that time but looking back felt they were my family,  My FOO were rarely in the picture.  And if they were it was almost always chaos, dysfunctional, etc etc.  So anyway when he left, GD was entering young adulthood and the visits, time spent together were few.  So I felt abandoned by both even though in my mind I understood the why's of what was happening.  At the time I gave the appearance and would say things to reflect I was dealing with it in a mature way.  But the body keeps the score doesn't it. It did have a big effect on me though and I think it still does. I feel a deep sadness about it all.  Thinking about it fills my eyes and makes my heart ache.  Grieving it, processing it will help me be better when I'm with them.  Currently it affects how I am with them.  Not only do i feel a deep sadness but I feel resentful, I feel disappointed and sometimes angry at the situation.  Part of the anger is about A coming back not entirely well.  He has difficulty with memory and he is 76 now.  I'm having to look after him in some ways. I looked after financial matters whilst he was away and continue to do that.  I look after meals and I sometimes think I'm not doing a great job at that.  I am conscious that he needs healthy meals but I often don't want healthy meals for myself.  A bit of a struggle for me there.  I feel shorted I guess.  And also think geez I'm in no shape myself to look after someone else when I can barely look after me.  It all seems to much at times.

I love both of them dearly and would do anything for them regardless of how I feel at times.

A bought a motorbike, a 3 wheeled bike.  Probably the only fun thing I have done in some time.  I'm not,able to get on it whilst he drives because I know of his memory issues, attention span, etc etc or naybe it's just I need to have control.  A is kind,patient and understanding so he let's me drive as he sits in the back seat.  He is so tolerant of me and all my stuff.

Which brings me to the reason I mention all this.  He left yesterday on a bike trip with his bro and I have been feeling the usual way - fearful he doesn't want
To live here with me anymore for all kinds of reasons, all my fault and shortcomings are the reasons. I am getting tired, exhausted with this roller coaster.  He has reassured me numerous times but, as some of you know, it doesn't seem to change how I'm feeling or my beliefs of how unworthy I am of anything. 

I would like a brand new heart and head and body now that I mention it.  I'm exhausting myself.

I was able to get a massage today for the first time in 2 1/2 years.

I was embarrassed because I'm in such bad shape/so tense and really haven't done any self care.

She suggested restorative yoga and I will look into that.

I am getting a massage tomorrow and it will be my first one in a while. 

I find that massage can be really supportive with the right massage therapist otherwise I don't like it.

I hope that you find things that help you feel your body the way you want to.

Thank you Rainydiary- i appreciate the care.

I forgot to mention the masseuse is trauma informed.  Made a lot of difference for me. The last massage I received was not enjoyable in fact, it was painful.

I've really struggled with massages as even the lightest touch can feel like a bruise. How did you find trauma-informed masseuse?

Oh my gosh I laughed out loud at the end of your post about A...wanting to find a new heart, head, body. Yes, it is exhausting to carry the symptoms of cptsd everywhere all the time.

But also, it would be very normal to feel resentment toward A, for leaving for so long and then coming back and getting to be taken care of by you. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. You're allowed to want him there but also be angry or resentful, you're even allowed to express that conflict.  :grouphug:

Lol Armee - yep still feel that way this morning.

I Googled CPTSD massage near me.  Yes the last time I had a massage it was terrible.  She could not finish, it was too painful and for the following week I felt like a truck had hit me, over and over.

This experience was very different.  She was very gentle and kept checking in with me about the pressure being right and just how I was doing in general. 

She also used a technique called
Craniosacral therapy.  As per internet craniosacral therapy is ideally suited for healing trauma since all trauma is both emotional, and craniosacral therapy produces what is called a somatic emotional release. A somatic emotional release is a mind-body technique that also releases emotional trauma from the body.

Whilst lying on your back the masseuse cups your head in the palm of her hands and ever so slightly maneuvers (I hardly notice movement but do notice a release right away) your head.  I find it very effective, probably the only release I can get from tension in neck and back of my head.

Thank you Armee for reminding me I'm allowed to feel what I feel.  It was so ingrained in me to not feel/suppress my feelings that now I find its automatic to not allow myself whatever it is I'm feeling.



 
 

Just re-read the bottom of my above post. No doubt this is why I called my journal Finding my feelings.


Anyway I feel out of touch, numb and depressed. I'm sleeping more than usual. Gosh I sleep a lot. 

I think the reasons for the increased depression are...

1.  No more appointments with T til July 14.

2.  Still feeling really anxious about the doctor appointment I had, it keeps going over and over in my head how I lost it, how she's not supportive in fact I believe she does not believe I should be on long term disability.  Nor is she trauma informed. 

It's not just the above incident, it's all situations.  I am overwhelmed.  I hate who I am, what I have become. It feels like everything is falling apart, again.  I thought I was getting some footing back but no, not really.  I don't want to do anything.

Perhaps the massage triggered some stuff? Who knows?? 

This is where I am at today.



 

I have difficulty explaining or expressing what is happening g to me.

I received a call yesterday from psychiatrist office (referred to by my trauma uninformed doctor).  Anxieties rose then.  An appointment was made for July 2024.  For assessment only. I have been assessed and am looking for a permanent psychiatrist, one I can see regularly.  With the hope of ensuring the meds I am taking are working.  I don't think they are working. 

Anyway I'm thinking I do not want to see this psychiatrist because I don't trust the referring doctor.

Maybe I should just go to hospital and get help.  Will they help me? Who will look after A and my cat?

 :fallingbricks:

 :bighug:

 :hug:

A can look after himself. You are your responsibility. If you need to go to the hospital A can take care of himself and your cat.  :grouphug: do what you need to stabilize. You deserve that. I'm sorry both the doctor and psychiatrist sound very out of touch and no wonder it was triggering to deal with. I'm sorry.   :hug:

Your big hugs matter to me and help.


 :bighug:

I was thinking about a few things this morning.  Well actually the wheels don't ever seem to stop.

My last therapy session with T was good in different ways.  I have 1 more session scheduled for July and then we have to wait for funding before we can continue.  We have both been accepted for the grant but are on a waiting list.  More funding is required. We are 200th on the list.  There is such a need.
I wish I was better in that I could help, somehow with the funding.  But I'm pretty isolated, I've lost contact, out of choice with businesses that may provide funding.  I'm not physically or mentally well enough to start a group walk and that would mean getting out, talking to people.  I just can't see how I can help.
I don't even feel well enough to volunteer for goodness sake. 

I digress - what I really  wanted to write about is that T made me promise to reach out to her should I start to go downhill and she said that if needed she is willing to forgo fees.  She referenced her own journey and that this would be a way to give back.  She has more than enough clients and can do this for me. 

When she told me that there wS literally a guttural, almost a gurgling that started to come up, out of me. I covered my mouth to stop it.  It affected me deeply.    Hopefully I will never have to take her up on it.  Even writing this feels emotional.  In that moment, albeit a short moment, I felt cared for.  And whenever I think of her saying that I can feel the care.

 

Moondance, that is amazing.  To me, it shows that she truly cares for you. 

Yes it surely felt that way.  Thank you for the big hug.  It's always appreciated so I send one right back at you Natureluvr.

 :bighug:

I am thinking about how, when my defenses are not up I can feel a bit like my old self.  I think recalling what my T said to me softens me. 

********

Father's day tomorrow.  My father was an alcoholic, possibly a sex addict - definitely dysfunctional as he caroused whilst married.  He was not emotionally available. He was verbally abusive. He did not ever provide support for us whether emotional or financial.  I dont recall ever feeling protected by my father.  He remarried and chose that family as his family.  He passed last October.  I did not attend his funeral because he really wasn't a father to me and I certainly didn't want to be around or see any FOO. From what I hear
he suffered greatly before passing.
If anything his passing is allowing me to grieve.

 

 

moondance, so much happening, so much going on for you.  i totally get why the referral from the doc who doesn't necessarily believe you belong on disability would make you apprehensive.  i do hope you find a psychiatrist of your own soon in order to check on your meds.  the right ones can make all the difference.

i agree w/ armee, A is an adult, can take care of himself.  could also take care of the cat.  you do what's helpful for you above and beyond anyone else.  that's your primary job.  in the meantime, how about a cool beverage, some silly show to just take your mind off things for a little bit.  and, i'm so glad you're T is caring and making herself available.  i understand that feeling of having someone be kind when we're not used to it.  i've burst into tears several times because of that same thing.  it just feels so weird. 

keep taking care of you, ok?  sending love and a big hug :bighug:

 :hug:

Thank you for the hugs San and Armee - always appreciated.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this about A but he has memory issues.  He's unable to cook - he might burn down the place.  He has a hard time remembering if the cat is on the porch never mind feeding her or remembering if he has something cooking on the stove.  I most likely did not mention.  I could though, if worse comes to worse ask his brother to look after him and my neighbor could possibly look after my cat. 

Not feeling great so that's all for now.

those sound like 2 very viable options, moondance.  as far as if a hospital can help, there are several people who have found that option very helpful.  it's up to you.  whatever feels right for you.  keep taking care, ok?  love and a big hug :bighug:

Moondance, I am here with you as you ask big questions and seek answers and information.  Best wishes sorting out how you want to move forward.

They do sound like viable options if you need them. You come first.

I've looked into things to remind me I am cooking because of dissociation I often absent-mindedly put something on the stove out of awareness and then leave it. There are alarms and sensors and such for people who are forgetful so they can still live independently. They attach to the stove knobs and send reminder alerts.

Moondance, I just caught up on the last couple of pages of your journal. You have a lot that you are dealing with.  :grouphug:

I'm still feeling overwhelmed.

I heard from government disability. It was denied but I can request a review of their decision within 90 days.  The government did say the insurance company cannot penalize me in anyway for this decision.

The following day, so yesterday I received a call from insurance company to let me know of their decision regarding change of disability to be effective Sept. 2024.  They have approved me for disability until 65. That was a relief for sure.

I have an appointment regarding financial matters this afternoon and am quite anxious about that. 

I haven't really read any posts regarding financial difficulties or perhaps a better choice of words is mismanagement of one's finances. 

Anyway one foot in front of the other right now.

Best wishes navigating and sorting out financial questions.

Thank you Rainydiary - much appreciated!

Thank you Not Alone for the hug - much appreciated as well.

My neighbor, the only neighbor I speak with a bit. I will call him Spin. Before my appointment today he asked I come listen (outside) to a tune he came up with on his guitar.  It was a really nice tune. I bring this up because Spin broached the topic of my lack of desire about anything.  He only knows that I'm on disability but no details. He inferred that I should pick up my boot straps, etc, etc. 
I could feel my blood starting to boil.  Whether right or wrong, I dont know but I told him that this remark makes me really angry and why.  He preceded to explain an experience he had as an example of bad things done to him - in essence he was assuming what I've been through or what is or might be causing my lack of desire for life. That is what it felt like to me.

Of course I acknowledged the bad experience he shared with me and I tried to explain that my lack of desire is as a result of abuse (didn't specify) from early on and throughout my life and that my efforts throughout my life to change, get better, seeking councelling, 12 step groups, religion, self help books, therapy, etc etc, were to no avail.  I find it difficult to explain CPTSD (me) to someone.  Anyway I did mention CPTSD.  He said well if you ever need to talk with someone.  Again why do people assume they know about someone else's life?  I told him there is no one on the f'n earth I trust or that has my best interest at heart.  Sorry for the expletive - my anger, frustration.  I most likely should have walked away. There were a few good things I said about CPTSD.  I did apologize to him before I left for getting upset/angry. I think we left the conversation in good standing but I don't know that for sure.  I doubt everything and go over and over what was said. 

In my head now I'm thinking; and in the end, after all that effort I still felt like there was still something very wrong with me. I now know different and learnt that here.

I feel safest at home, not dealing with anyone because it just makes it more complicated in my head to have interactions with humans.

I'm thinking about how I was feeling when the anger started to well up.  It was really unusual for me to speak up about how I was feeling and to say why.  I think it was an EF.

On a whole other note the appointment went okay.  I was overwhelmed from the conversation with Spin.  I have more decisions to make.  I don't feel able to make good decisions right now. 


 
   

POSSIBLE TRIGGERS - poem about divorce





A poem about continued fighting between my FOO - they divorced and fought for at least 7 years.

Forever After

The Prince and Princess met
A date was set
For the specially bright day
They were on their way

Through many years
There came good cheers
Happily ever after?
Never!
For there were fears
And then there were tears

Inadequacies
Judgment of another
Frivolicies
Why bother?

Unhappiness, drinking
Deeper, sinking
Where is the reasoning
No returning

Separation, divorce
Many says in courts
What a waste of time
Worse than a crime

Now eight years of fighting
Is there no ending
Someone is calling
Could it be God answering

QuoteI feel safest at home, not dealing with anyone because it just makes it more complicated in my head to have interactions with humans.

i very much relate to this, moondance.  unless i'm selling or teaching, which is a different persona, i'm also safest at home.  at least, that's how i feel.  it includes having to speak to anyone i don't know on the phone.  you are not alone with this.  i'm so grateful to live w/ my D, who takes care of most of that business-y kind of stuff.

i also doubt most things i say/do unless it's my computer games.  but that's me, my alone time.  too often, still, self-doubt runs around me at every turn.  it's a crummy way to feel.  love and hugs :hug:

It is an awful way of being and feeling.  I'm sorry you can relate Sanmagic7 - it does help me a lot though when someone relates.  Thank you  :)

 :bighug:

Moondance flower has bloomed.

It's beautiful. Like you.

I agree with Armee. Thank you for sharing the picture.

My neighbor, the only neighbor I speak with a bit. I will call him Spin. Before my appointment today he asked I come listen (outside) to a tune he came up with on his guitar.  It was a really nice tune. I bring this up because Spin broached the topic of my lack of desire about anything.  He only knows that I'm on disability but no details. He inferred that I should pick up my boot straps, etc, etc.
I could feel my blood starting to boil.  Whether right or wrong, I dont know but I told him that this remark makes me really angry and why.  He preceded to explain an experience he had as an example of bad things done to him - in essence he was assuming what I've been through or what is or might be causing my lack of desire for life. That is what it felt like to me.

Moondance, this would make me really angry too, if it happened to me.  I've had many instances in my past, of people telling me I was a dry drunk, I was addicted to misery, and other criticisms, all blaming me for the issues and problems I have in my life. I have worked extremely hard too, to try to overcome my CPTSD.  I've had progress, but I still have a lot of issues.  People have a tendency to be very presumptuous, and I think many people are in denial about child abuse, and how badly it affects people.  I think it is wonderful that you told him this made you angry.  You were standing up for your inner child, and I'm sure he/she really appreciated that. 

Thank you do much Natureluvr - I really appreciate that.  Although I feel I over reacted in that situation (I usually do) you are absolutely right; my inner child really felt that support. A really good feeling for her and I guess I should recognize that in that moment my adult self felt like an adult.  I more often than not feel like an child in an adult body.

Armee and NarcKiddo,

I didn't know how to respond to your posts. I kinda went numb but want to say what a kind thing to say and thank you.

I find this flower so intricate.

 :hug:

moondance, i get angry, too, when people tell me unhelpful, which are also at times distressing, things.  i remember being given some of these kinds of advice, 'let go and let god', 'put it in the past', 'don't be so sensitive', 'it's behind you now', etc. ad nauseum, and would always think 'don't you believe i've tried all that, have done everything i know to try to get rid of this?' they'd look at me w/ pity, or as if i didn't get it.

ugh!  not helpful!    sorry you had to go thru that.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you Sanmagic7 for relating and saying it's so unhelpful.  :)

 :hug:

Why my brain doesn't let go of this though? It's been a few days now and it still rolls around in my head continuously.  What the heck is that if anyone knows?  It's like a stuck album (broken record I guess) repeating itself over and over again. 

Everything I experience seems to be like that.  No wonder I don't want to go anywhere or talk to anyone.

 

Maybe it's rolling round because on the face of it Spin was showing friendship and concern. For sure it was clumsy, irritating and the subject matter was unwarranted. But you told him that, and stood up for your inner child, which is great. Is it possible that you are struggling with how to deal with friendly overtures? I know I do, and feel much safer not letting anyone close to me. But my therapist has said my life could be much more fulfilling if I could just try letting people in a little bit. I've started interacting with women in my gym a lot more; joining in a conversation in the changing room whereas previously I would just change and go. Spin may not be the right person to interact with on any meaningful basis. But not wanting to go anywhere or talk to anyone can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I hope I have not spoken out of turn.

 :grouphug:

What NarcKiddo said sounds pretty plausible to me, too. Also, what happened was the opposite of validation. Most people even therapists don't seem to understand that what we need to heal is validation and acceptance of us exactly as we are. Ironically that's when we can start to let go and change.

And I agree with naturlover that this would make me feel angry too...actually I know myself...it would make me feel ashamed.

You could either decide the neighbor is overall not well meaning or healthy to be around and keep it cordial and superficial, or you could decide if warranted that neighbor was well meaning and help educate him on what helps, but sometimes we just are not strong enough yet to do that. That's ok.

I'm sorry it happened. But I find when we belittle and doubt ourselves as much as we do after a lifetime of gaslighting and abuse, these comments that suggest we aren't trying hard enough can be extremely devastating. Try to remember, if it helps, that most people think reiterating we have every right to be depressed/traumatized/whatever will make it worse. Most people don't understand that validation we need helps us get over it and get better.

Why my brain doesn't let go of this though? It's been a few days now and it still rolls around in my head continuously.  What the heck is that if anyone knows?  It's like a stuck album (broken record I guess) repeating itself over and over again.

Everything I experience seems to be like that.  No wonder I don't want to go anywhere or talk to anyone.

I think this is called rumination.  I don't know if it's any comfort to you, but the same thing happens to me.  I understand how frustrating it can be.  It's my personal belief that many or most of us with CPTSD have not learned skills for emotional regulation and healthy relationships, though no fault of our own.  When something upsets us, and we can't find resolution to it, we tend to ruminate about it, because the emotions are stuck inside us, and our minds are trying to problem solve, and find some resolution.  When this happens, I have found it helpful to journal, or do something else to express the emotion.  For me, if I'm sad, crying really helps.  To express anger, I've found it helpful to beat a pillow, write the name of the person with whom I'm angry on a slip of paper and tape it to the bottom of my shoes, and stomp my feet.  These are techniques I learned in therapy.

All I say above are only suggestions, and I don't know if they will help you.  I hope I don't come across as telling you what to do, they are just things that help me.  I hope I haven't crossed a line by giving you these ideas. If I have, just let me know. 

I agree with Armee - it sounds like invalidation.  I know I get very angry and triggered when people invalidate me, becauseI've had a lifetime of it, and it's unfair, and unsupportive.  I had a so called "friend" say similar things to me a little over a year ago, and I was very angry, and it took me a while to overcome the anger. 

moondance, along w/ everyone else's thoughts and suggestions, i also think of this stuff as trauma brain.  our minds/brains have been traumatized, the networks have been messed w/, and they don't always do what we want or what we think they should do.  there may be something at the root of it, which could be discovered and resolved.  whatever, it's irritating, annoying, frustrating, and (insert your own feelings here).  i hate it when it happens to me.  love and hugs :hug:

I really appreciate the validation Sanmagic7.  It really helps and really matters to me.

I agree with you as well that it's the brain trauma.  And yes I hate it so much when it happens.  I don't like not being in control of myself.  it doesn't match up well with perfectionism at all.  I can't get things right anymore and I find that really hard.

But having the validation from you all, and that is how I feel, I'm finding I'm learning to be kinder and more gentle with myself.

I woke up this morning with a disturbing thought.  That A asked Spin to have a chat with me last week.

Spin has never asked for my opinion on his music  and that is how he got me to go over to the gazebo in his yard to listen to this new tune he'd come up with.  Hence the conversation that started last week. Anyway I think Soin is avoiding me now and I'm good with that.

I summoned up enough courage to ask A if perhaps he'd asked Spin to talk to me about my depression, CPTSD, etc and he said no he doesn't talk about me to anyone. And I belive him even though parts of me says you shouldn't trust anyone.

The woman who bore me used to say to us all the time, never, never trust anyone.  She didn't tryst anyone, I don't think she trusted us either.  It just occurred to me that perhaps I went thru life trying to disprove her. I'll have to think about that some more.  I do recall making a conscious decision to trust first until proven otherwise.  I just didn't know how to protect myself, how much to trust others with. In earlier years I lived my life as an
Open book, perhaps to open, to trusting.  And now I've gone entirely the other way which is sad really.

Someone posted in another thread about something I'd said.  I did not want to respond in someone elses journal as it is their journal.  I Quote

Moondance said "I don't believe I can look after myself, my needs..." and that resonates. But if we don't even know what our needs are, because they are buried so deep, then how on earth can we go about looking after them?

This is so very true and I'm glad it was mentioned.  That is a good place for me to start, identify my needs.  Some of them I know, like basic needs such as honesty, respect, safety.  Which brings me to boundaries.  I need to sit down and figure those out and write them down. Once I know my boundaries perhaps then I can learn to stand up for myself, look after myself.

moondance, i, too, have lived by that way of thinking about trust - i would trust someone until they give me a reason not to trust them.  unfortunately, i really didn't know too much about which 'reason' in a relationship was the one to break that trust.  boundaries, or lack of them, i think is key w/ that trust issue.  having very few - no physical abuse was the main one - others slipped right past me, i made excuses for them, i ignored them, or thought i could fix them.  hah!

i like your idea of getting your boundaries down in black and white.  i believe it'll be of great benefit to you.  love and hugs :hug:

Trust is such a huge topic, isn't it?

My mother always said only family could be trusted. And yet she is one of the most untrustworthy people I know. :stars:

It sounds to me like you got a good reaction from A, though. In that it does not sound like he got all huffy that you should even ask. He just reassured you that he does not talk about you to anyone.

Thinking about boundaries strikes me as a good thing to do.

Yes, I believed A when he said that. He has always treated me well and been honest with me. He has respected me even when I'm all over the place. He has been consistent with me throughout.  I need to remember that.  And that is in fact why I'm able to live with him and feel somewhat safe.  It definitely would not be possible with anyone else.

In fact this is why I'm trying to help A in anyway I can even though I'm struggling myself.   He is getting older and his memory is failing him. He has been so good to me throughout the years. 

Thank you both, Sanmagic7 and NarcKiddo for relating, encouraging and so supportive.  This means a lot to me, more than I can say in words.

Hi Moondance, I know this was from a while back (I'm just now starting to be in a place where I can read other people's journals) but I agree with Natureluvr and San. People have a tendency to be very presumptuous, and look at others through their own experiences, what worked for them must work for you, what you are doing "wrong" without taking into consideration you have a very different perspective.  People tend to give advice to make themselves feel good, and it's that piece of invalidating your experience...the dismissal of what you are going through...anger is a completely valid reaction. 

Hi Eireanne,

Yes a valid feeling under the circumstances.  Hopefully I can get to a point where I can respond in a compassionate way towards people who are so presumptious.  I think they live in their own bubble as well.  Just a different bubble than mine.   ;D

Thank you for taking the time to respond - always appreciated.

I'm not even sure where to begin, again - some venting going on here.

I continue to feel and be in survival mode.  Survival mode for me seems to be shut down, putting
time in, really not engaged, not caring, depressed - just trying to stay above water really.  I find
it so difficult to be in relationship with anyone and that's without anything going on in the relationship.
When something does goes wrong relationally I just shut down. 

It doesn't help that I'm not seeing my T regularly now - I believe communicating with her on a weekly
basis was getting me out of the deep depression.  It seems to be returning as time goes on here without
T.  I will email T this week and let her know I will take her up on offer to meet once a month until funding
comes in for applied therapy grant.

I had a family doctor appointment for tomorrow but I cancelled because I just don't want to deal with a doctor/person
who doesn't support me at this time or doesn't understand what CPTSD is, how it happens, the symptoms, etc, etc.
The appointment was a follow up to CT lung scan.  The lung doc already went over the results with me so I'm
not sure why GP wanted to review as well.  I made sure to clarify that there will be no charge as I gave more
than 24 hour notice of cancellation.

A left this morning on a 2 week trip on motorcycle.  This is creating anxiety within me even though
I tell myself he's an adult.  He plans to call me once a day so I don't worry but gosh lots can
happen in between there. Talk about worse case scenario syndrome...yikes that doesn't help.
 
I'm trying to let it go and haven't been too successful with that.   I have been tracking his phone (on my plan) and
he has been riding since 6 a.m. and is almost at the destination he was to be at in 1 day as opposed to
the planned 2 days.  And I'm texting his son with updates as he is worried as well.  A is 76 and has memory issues
especially when tired or stressed.  He will meet up with his son tomorrow at the planned destination. 

And now that he's not around for the next few weeks I can
spend some time posting and processing some of my stuff.....hopefully.

In one of my last posts I mentioned boundaries and I was going to get clarity on
that for myself.  I have printed and gathered some information regarding boundaries
however I've not written anything down - yet.  That is something I will do in the
next 2 weeks for myself.  Now there is a boundary I did set or ask for with A in the
past few weeks. I had been feeling overwhelmed with looking after A.  Some of the overwhelming
feelings are my fault, my responsibility.  I've been looking after others' needs for a long while
and it happens automatically for me - but I need to change that for myself.  I don't know how yet
because it's so ingrained in me.  The first step however I feel I took with A.  I explained that
I'm not well myself (understatement) and that I need for him to be caring towards me, helpful as
well.  I may be younger than him but in worse shape in some ways for sure.

I have work to do in the asking - way, way uncomfortable to ask for something for myself
and most likely my explanation is not as clear and concise as it should be but a step forward
nonetheless.  I say work to do in the asking because he got defensive and that is not what
I intended - one of the reasons I don't ask for anything is because i don't want to hurt others,
put them out - he was hurt.  He felt I was saying he was a bad guy which is crazy because he's
the only good guy I've known- that doesn't mean he's perfect by any means.  This is the difficulty
with A - he doesn't always comprehend what I'm saying or meaning.  And to add to this crazy mix
I'm so unsure of myself I have a tendency to blame me for everything including him not understanding.
 :fallingbricks:  :fallingbricks:  :fallingbricks:

Whewwwww!   I was able to verbalize that is not what I'm saying.  That what I'm saying is I want
to be cared for as well.  I want to be visible as opposed to invisible and I have needs as well.
He got more frustrated as we talked and seemed to feel worse, like exasperated.  I got up and
went to my room - when I got up I did say and this is the reason I never f'n ask for anything.  :stars: 

As I'm typing this I'm thinking okay there is a pattern here.  I ask for something from someone,
they respond with something other than what I'm asking.  The response is usually about how they are feeling
not about what I'm feeling which completely sidetracks me.    It feels to me that I've said nothing, I've not
been heard and what is the point of even trying.   And of course
then I go down the path of -  it must be how I asked, how I verbalize what I'm saying.

Well this just really shows me that this is something I really need to work on, learn
more about.  The best definition I've ever heard of for boundaries is - where one person
ends and the other begins.  Mind you that has really not helped me a whole bunch.

I did just read though that "People who have formed complex post-traumatic stress disorder also have problems with boundaries. It is a part of the symptomology of CPTSD." (https://cptsdfoundation.org/2022/11/21/the-vital-importance-of-boundaries/)

When I first was off work and speaking with insurance company (hate to even mention them) and the psychologist they assigned to me I recall responding in a terrified way to having to set boundaries.  I felt at the time that
I had tried to set boundaries but boundaries don't work real well with bullies, narcissist, etc.  Reading the above
excerpt that boundaries are a symptomology of CPTSD gives me relief that it's not just me - it's yet another
symptom of CPTSD.  I so did not feel safe with that psychologist - she was extremely pushy about the boundary
work, going back to work was mentioned in every session.  Instead of helping me regulate I was getting more and
more dysregulated.  On the upside I was so panicked, anxiety ridden and in a continual EF that I lost it with insurance company and told them I didn't feel safe with this person and suggested a different psychologist.

Now that I have been approved for LTD until 65 the dealings with insurance are to a minimum, thus far
anyway.  I'm hoping I will be able to do some healing now.  I know that many of us, if not all have
struggled with insurance companies and my thoughts are with those of us that are still in the process and
fighting for support.  It would be more helpful and healing to all of us for them to have an understanding of all
traumas and how it affects every aspect of our daily lives.

A has reached his destination safe and sound.   :cheer:     

I feel thankful for this forum.














 
   

 :bighug:

I'm so glad A reached his destination and your worrying about that can recede a bit. Is it ok to make an observation?

Another symptom of CPTSD is selfblame. It's super protective and I do it a lot. I notice that you are taking the blame and saying you need to work on this more, but, maybe A is the one who has work to do, in how he responded to you? And maybe possibly explaining yourself in writing might help too?

 :grouphug:   

I'm so glad you'll be asking your T for the monthly assistance. You deserve that.

I hear you and I identify with pretty much everything you have said. I'm glad A got to his destination safely.

 :hug:

Oh Moondance, so many things you said I relate to so strongly.

I just don't want to deal with a doctor/person who doesn't support me at this time or doesn't understand what CPTSD is - I get that 100%

Also "I ask for something from someone, they respond with something other than what I'm asking.  The response is usually about how they are feeling not about what I'm feeling which completely sidetracks me. It feels to me that I've said nothing, I've not been heard and what is the point of even trying.   And of course then I go down the path of -  it must be how I asked, how I verbalize what I'm saying."

I've been reflecting on this a lot recently, in my own interactions. How much I take responsibility for people that are listening to fix instead of understand. Jumping to a suggestion without having the context necessary to understand what I am saying in the first place frustrates me.  The defensive part of me just wants to shout "you aren't listening to me!" I hope venting about it with us is helpful. Agree with Armee's observation.

 :bighug:   

Yes Armee I appreciate your observation(s) for sure.

So yes I live in selfblame unfortunately.  I'm aware that when I communicate with others that that is apparent and that it really affects how others see me because that is what is being projected by me.  It all seems unsurmountable to get rid of all these  ways I have but my thought is to be a lot more gentle with myself and perhaps slowly I will heal.  I really like your idea of writing / working it out first.  I would like to try that. Thank you for the hug Armee. I feel care in it.  :hug:

A called just know and he has arrived at his 2nd destination.  I am so impressed with how he is doing this.  I'm only 62 and I couldn't do it -  he is 76 and has memory issues.  It shows me the difference it makes to believe in one's self.  He had parents who really had the skills or know how to bring up self assured, confident children.  All his siblings share the same confidence.  I can't put it into words but I can see it in them when I was around them.  When A was living here some of it rubbed off on me and being part of the family back then had a positive effect on me.  And then A left to live his dream on the water and well as the saying goes the rest is history.  I do realize it has to come from me though and to get there a lot of work will be required.


Thank you Narckiddo for relating and for the hug.  I always am able to relate when reading your posts.
 :hug:

Eireanne I can feel that big warm hug - thank you it means a lot to me and makes my eyes leaky a bit coming from you :bighug: (this is meant in a really good way).

And yes, after the fact I want to shout, "Your not listening to me", Your not hearing me". Maybe someday we will be able to say it. Right then and there.  I would so like to be able to express my feelings right in the moment without all the blame, shame, guilt or as an overreaction if you know what I mean.  And yes venting did help. 

I'm so thankful you all had the time to read and respond to my post.  Since I haven't posted for a few weeks I wasn't sure anyone would (inside voice) respond.  But to my amazement there you all are. 

 :grouphug:

hey, moondance, when i read his response to what you were saying, the first thought that came to mind was that he has some kind of issue getting in the way of hearing what you're saying. i don't believe it was on you at all.  his response of interpreting your 'asking' that he felt like he was a bad guy seems way off. that's not your fault.  when i've gotten defensive about someone saying or asking me something, it's because there's something else, usually from my past, going on. 

by the by, i relate to wanting to be taken care of.  i know that comes from my childhood, but it's been with me for as long as i can remember.

i'm glad A is groovin' along the highway and staying safe.  and you are there for him, worrying, checking in w/ him - just like you'd want someone to do for you.   :thumbup:  you really are a wonderful person.  love and hugs :hug:

Hi Sanmagic7,

You may have a really good point there. Thank you for this insight!

When I think about his relationship history a bit I think that he feels badly about himself and how his adult children are doing or were doing.  His youngest son passed a few years ago.  AAA had an ongoing struggle from birth.  His M was an addict and so AAA was born with AFS and turrets. He was often homeless and/or living in shelters in adulthood.   At the age of 38 he had a colostomy due to the effects of alcohol on his body. 

A pretty much raised his children on his own.  AAA sadly overdosed.  A's eldest son, AA really struggles with his brothers death and blames himself.  AA also struggles with substance abuse but even more so since AAA's passing.

So yes I can then see quite clearly that A may feel like a 'bad guy'.  He's not but I can see where that might come from.

Even though I know this is confidential and no names are being used I feel it's not my place to tell someone else's story.  I share the above to better understand what I'm dealing with in my relationship with A. 

I have to admit there is a bit of a trigger there for me.  I get triggered if I feel a 'parent' is not taking responsibility for whatever happened. I don't mean the suicide but just generally taking responsibility.  And I think probably A may be triggered by me blaming or wanting to hold them, my parents responsible for the things that happened to me under their so called 'care'   

Hmmm, so I recognize then I'm not as free as I was when living alone to feel and express all that I need to because of my own codependency and CPTSD. 

Ughhh everything is so intertwined.

The message remains the same for me today as it was yesterday....

BOUNDARIES - I need to work on this so I can look after myself somewhat or I will drown and disappear even more.

I don't have much of a desire to hang on but am aware that writing here gets some of it which in turn feels a bit lighter.

Well hopefully this makes a bit of sense to someone.

 :bighug: Yes. It makes sense.

I continue to feel and be in survival mode.  Survival mode for me seems to be shut down, putting
time in, really not engaged, not caring, depressed - just trying to stay above water really.. 

I can relate to this - I think I get the same way at times. 

I'm sorry that A got defensive and upset when you set boundaries with him.  I know how hard it is to set boundaries - and then to have the other person not react in a favorable way, just makes things harder.  It's wonderful that you were able to stand your ground and clarify want you meant.  For years, when I tried to set boundaries, I just gave in if the other person resisted. I've gotten to the point now where I will stand my ground if the other person resists, at least a lot of the time, not always. 


boundaries don't work real well with bullies, narcissist, etc.

Yep, this.  Unfortunately, most of my FOO are narcs and/or bullies, and I finally got to where I had to go no contact with all but one of them.  I had set some boundaries, but they did not respect them.  It was fake begrudging apology, and then more emotionally abusive behavior.  I feel better being no contact, but I've had to grieve the loss of hope of ever having any decent relationships with any of them. 

Armee said "maybe A is the one who has work to do, in how he responded to you?".  This thought crossed my mind as well. 

I want to shout, "Your not listening to me", Your not hearing me".

I can really resonate with this.  This has been an ongoing theme in my life- feeling unheard and invisible to people around me in my FOO and my family of origin.  Thankfully, recently I often feel heard and understood by my husband, and my friends.

I feel bad, because I've spent more time talking in my response to you about myself. I just want to reiterate that I relate to so much of what you are saying. 

Hugs, moondance.   :hug: 

Hi Natureluvr

I really appreciate your response and how you responded.  It helps me in so many ways.   :hug: as far as I'm concerned no reason to feel bad because I take it that you are relating to my post, that you understand what I'm experiencing which is always helpful because I often think (blame, etc, etc) it's something wrong with me. 

I'm learning, slowly it's not all me.  On the other hand I'm hoping if someone spots that it is me that a gentle nudge is given to me to help me see if I'm not owning or seeing it. 

Isn't this exactly what relational trauma is? I'm unable to clearly see what is truly going on at times.  Well still a lot of the time for me, but hopefully as I heal i will know more and more what is going on.  So yes the blame, guilt, shame, doubt, self critic, overthinking, hypervigilance, etc etc pretty much skews everything doesn't it. What is really difficult I guess is that because of my trauma mind I misinterpret what others are saying a lot, what they really mean.

Yep makes so much sense to me why I do better alone, prefer to be alone - it's so much easier on my head and body to just be alone.

My fear with that is can a person come back from that?  I think some of you have and I admire that.

We are not meant to be alone in this world.  I need others even though my trauma brain doesn't want to need others.  Ahhh there is a difference there to saying my trauma brain doesn't need others
Than me saying I don't need others.

So a part of me, somwhere is saying i do need others and its okay - I don't know if it's the little in me saying I do need others or the adult saying I do need others. 
The other part says no no no its not safe - k that's the little girl saying no no no.  Lots of pain there.

Enough for now.

What is really difficult I guess is that because of my trauma mind I misinterpret what others are saying a lot, what they really mean.

Yes, this happens to me quite a lot. 

it struck a chord w/ me, moondance, about separating trauma brain from me as a person.  makes so much sense, and is quite profound to my mind.   

the boundaries thing is a tough one for many of us, especially when we weren't allowed to have our own, never learned it's ok to have our own from early on.  i think we have to go directly against our trauma brains here, too.  realizing something is ok or not ok for ourselves is a big ask, but it's doable. i have been making progress (a little!)  here's hoping for progress for you, too.  love and hugs  :hug:

Thank you for the love and hugs San I felt that!

 :bighug:

I like silence, I enjoy silence.  I don't talk much at home or even when in conversation with someone. 


My M wanted to know everything, always. A barrage of questions. I freeze, shut down when I experience a barrage of questions. 

And thinking about it now my head feels just like that.  None stop questions, statements in my head.  It therefore makes sense that when question after question comes at me I freeze.

One of the ways I try to silence my brain is to have the TV on and play a game at the same time.  I do this a lot.

I love silence, too. I rarely even listen to music these days, unless I am working out in the gym. I get more irritated by the endless, loud, piped music in restaurants as I get older. I thought it was just me turning into a cranky old lady but maybe there is more to it than that. Music at breakfast is the WORST!

I also identify with the freeze reaction when faced with a barrage of questions. I hate being questioned, even if it is about something innocuous and I know the answers.

I'm interested to see that you have the TV on and play a game at the same time. I've often found myself reading or flicking through social media while the TV is on. And yet when I am doing my colouring or art stuff, which I find incredibly therapeutic, I don't want any noise at all. I thought an audiobook might be good to listen to while I paint but I just zone out of the book.

There's nothing wrong with silence and it is nice to have someone you can be silent with. That is one thing my husband and I agree on. We can sit quite happily together without chatting. If I am with my mother the yammer is endless.

But it's also OK to need others. That is a normal human need. The tough part is getting ourselves to acknowledge that need and then find the strength to express it.

 :hug:

Hi Moondance,
I related to what you said about the barage of questions.  I find that I dislike any form of questioning, and I even anticipate the kinds of questions people might ask.  I dread those questions.

I like a calm space too with little noise and some peaceful silence.  It can be very calming.

 :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you for relating and your hug in support Hope  :hug: I really appreciate it

--------

Another memory just now - it came back from watching a movie.

When I say memory I mean an incident that was tucked in deep.  I didn't forget it, it was inside me, festering like all the rest of the incidences. It seems to be coming back in pieces.

****CSA TRIGGER WARNING*****





I don't have a memory of the actual CSA but am remembering things around it, the people, the circumstances, almost see a visual of the house I was.

This family were friends of my parents.  Actually one of the daughters of the parents my FOO were friends with my dad ended up having an affair with later on and shortly after that my parents split up. I was 13 when they split up. But that isn't the memory.

I was having difficulty figuring out how old I was when this happened.  But since I was 13 when my parents split up, I was 12 when the priest incident happened it had to have been prior to that.  But my cycle had started so I guess between the ages of 11-14.  Not sure exactly when but thinking I was 11 or 12.

I recall being at these friends house.  I wasn't really close to these people but I was there for the weekend. I was dropped off for the weekend which is odd because I never went anywhere and when my parents went somewhere I usually looked after my siblings.  So not sure why I was dropped off for the weekend.

The long and short of it is that there was alcohol and men.  I remember saying to this young girl I had my period and she said that's okay they would not mind.

I have the feeling of wanting to go home - I did not want to spend the weekend there.  I remember more of how I felt than anything else.

**** END OF TW*****

For many years I thought I came from a good family. But this is a false belief.  My FOO, in particular my parents were not good.  They were abusive, neglectful and abandoned us.  There were greater things at play here than I realized.

I find this extremely sad, immobilizing but I want to know all of it.  Because now I'm really starting to get why I have struggled so much all my life. 

Incident after incident from the ages of 11 and possibly younger i have been sexualized.  My biological dad used to call me awful names at a young age. 

I do understand, looking back and even now, why I don't value myself and in turn why others don't either.  Because they hear what I say about myself and they see how I treat myself - almost giving them the right to treat me badly.  I have always been self depricating- I guess that could fall under the inner critic syndrome except it is the outward critic syndrome.

Enough for today. I feel drained, exhausted.





 

I appreciate you sharing your experience and reflection and resonate with how exhausting that is in addition to carrying it. 

Thank you Rainydiary for your care and resonating with the post - much appreciated.

I read the following in another post and found it to be so fitting for me...

Over the last year I have simply been trying to work out what my symptoms are and understand how best to live the rest of my life.

So in addition to the CSA, the rape, the DV I have the continued, over many years abusive work situations, the gaslighting andthe narcissists.

I feel like I am repeating myself so most likely I am.

I feel like my life is on hold, I've been highjacked.

The main difficulty at the moment is my loss of interest in life.  I don't know how to change that because I just don't care to try anymore. I'm just putting time in.  I would not do anything to myself but instead just waiting for the day.

I know I should want to live, do things, be with people/relationships and I even try to pretend at times for other people's sakes but that doesn't work.


Maybe I should give myself more time as there is a huge amount to sort out. 

Yeah. You're in the middle of it and it's a lot of really sad and bad stuff. Just getting through the moment is good. Forget WANTING to live for now. For now just doing it (life, moment to moment) is enough. Just one awful thing did me in for a long time. But I do trust that even tho it's a lot you are going through, it'll get better. Just not now and not fast.   :grouphug:

 :hug: Armee

Thank you

I've been trying to work thru or process my last post. 

It seems that every few weeks or so I remember another incident where I felt unsafe, that I was put in harms way as a child, whether unknowingly or not. 

Some of the memories are also of past unsafe work places. 

I'm becoming more aware of how I deal or don't deal with these memories.

When it comes to the work memories I shut off right away.  When the thought comes I think no, no,no let's not go there.  I avoid the thought as soon as it comes. I get a panicky, very anxiety producing feeling in my body and mind.  Most times I will shake my head as if I'm trying to shake it away, off and out of me.

For the childhood memories it's not like that.  It comes almost like a replay in my mind.  And each time I get a sense of understanding why I'm finding it so difficult to be in the world. I guess the awareness is the beginning.

I'm not remembering everything and that's probably a protective thing happening - most likely why every few weeks more comes up. 

Yestwrday I found a book in our reference book guide on boundaries and an exercise on assertiveness.
I think this will be helpful. I need to do it though for it to be helpful.   I'm trying to lower my expectations of myself so that I don't feel pressure about it and allow myself to do it at my own pace however fast or slow it may be. I find it difficult to stick with anything  but I will keep trying. I have downloaded the assertiveness exercise - that's a start.

Moondance, my heart sank when I read your post. I'm so sorry that you have to deal with those things.

Not Alone  :bighug:

It means a lot to be heard and understood.

Truly, truly

moondance, i echo notalone.  heartbreaking for sure.

i relate to just putting one foot in front of the other w/ no or little motivation for anything else. it's a dark feeling. keep hangin' tough, ok?  hangin' right beside you.  love and hugs :hug:

Thanks for hanging with San  :hug: I will hang on to the fact you all get it and standing with me as I stand with you all. Well as best as I can.

-----

Sometime ago I posted about my dad dropping me off for the weekend with a bunch of his friends. They were drinking and carrying on.  I think this was within 6 mths of when I was raped.  Anyway I won't get into that again in detail.

I mention this because this morning I recalled what happened afterward.  Well i recall the main part of what happened after.  Only bits and pieces seem to come in to my mind, the recesses of my mind.  Isn't there a song that goes like that! ;D

I recall being extremely distraught.  I recall wanting to be alone, asking to be alone.  I recall asking my dad if I could go to the camp on my own.  I just wanted to be alone.  Although I'd  dissociated prior I think this was the beginning of really pulling away from everyone.  Pulling myself, my body and my mind in a fetal position.  I recall sleeping a lot and not much of anything else.  I think I have always separated my body and my mind. They are not one. And that speaks of the dissociation, right?

I never felt in control of either. Well at times I did but never the 2 together it seems.







 

 

 

Well A has arrived at 2nd destination safe and sound. Yea!!

I am now in a state of panic. I'm worried he won't come back and if he does it won't be to stay.

I feel shame about myself, shame about where I'm at in my life. 

Some of it is insecurities, some of it is concern about what will happen should he decide to not stay.

As much as my adult self says, "whatever happens, whether he stays or goes it will be okay" I'm having a difficult time believing that.  It would also affect my financially.

The shame, embarrassment, insecurities are about how I am, unavailable, uncommunicative, depressed, anxious and worried all the time, my inability to communicate my needs/boundaries, the anger/impatience, lack of ernergy or desired to to anything. I could go on and on. Bottom line I'm not easy to live with - I know this.  Ohh and I forgot to mention I can be downright grumpy and I swear and call myself names.  This is totally the opposite of who I have been in years past.  I hate hate hate this stuff!!

It would devastating to me because he is the only friend I can trust 100%.  Although my trauma brain doesn't behave or reflect I trust him 100%  But that could also be about I don't want to burden him because my stuff is a lot. I'm almost certain you guys will get that.   

If there was a fall out that would most likely mean I would never hear or see grand-daughter again.

I finally sent an email to my T this morning to let her know I accept her offer to meet once a month until funding comes in. Hopefully she hasn't changed her mind.

There are just too many possible scenarios going around in my mind right now - part of the reason for the anxiety, I guess.

I need to talk with someone about this because it's sending me over.

I don't feel able to talk with A because it all might be true and I don't know that I could handle it.

Suggestions are welcomed.

 :fallingbricks:
 

 

 :hug:

Its trauma brain. The things are not true but they feel threateningly true. When you can, it is best to talk to A about it.  :grouphug:

 :hug: Thank you, Armee, for affirming it's trauma brain. I agree that would be the adult thing to do. I just am not there right now. Thank you for taking time to respond.

I'm too afraid right now to talk with him and definitely too overwhelmed and anxious. I have talked with someone else which helped getting it out of my brain somewhat.

I will also write it all out as well to further get it out. 

I will definitely speak with A when he returns. In the meantime I'm trying to work thru it myself so as not to bother him on his holiday with my trauma brain.

If it gets unbearable again I will have to reach out to him. 

I get it. It would take me weeks to months to be able to talk to my husband about anything living in trauma brain.  :hug:

"When you can" means literally when you can. When your trauma releases enough that the words can come out and not be overwhelming.

But I do know it's also the shortest path to relief. You deserve the reassurance.  :hug:

 :hug: got it Armee - thanks for everything.

Yes, agreed speaking with A about it would be the shortest path to relief.

I'm having a hard time taking in/feeling 'I deserve the reassurance' however I really appreciate the validation and encouragement from you Armee. 

Who knows I may surprise myself and talk to him before he comes back and not just because it got unbearable.

 :hug:

i'd like to jump on that bandwagon, moondance, about encouragement, validation, and reassurance that it's trauma brain.  those thoughts and feelings can seem so logical in a totally illogical way.  you deserve reassurance anytime you're feeling wobbly.  i'm glad you'll get as much of this out as possible, writing, talking, however it works best for you.  and, yes, when you are able. always at your pace and what works for you.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you so much San for the support, validation, reassurance, encouragement- so very much appreciated.  :hug:

------

Physically this all takes its toll.

Yesterday I mowed and trimmed all of the lawn. In part because it needed it but it derails some of the crazy thoughts to physically do something.  My whole body hurts most of the time but I feel like a truck hit me this morning. My body is almost always full of tension.  My neck especially - I have tried numerous things to help with my neck but most recently I bought a roll on called "that stuff for pain" and it does help to lessen the pain somewhat.

Yesterday when I spoke with a friend about the ever increasing anxiety I was able to cry which helped releasing some of the anxiety and emotion.  Hmm I'm wondering if when I feel emotions now it goes into anxiety- maybe that's what happens.  I didn't realize it til just now. It's like a panic state.  I guess that is trauma brain.

I haven't heard back from T yet.  Maybe she changed her mind or maybe she is just busy and will get back to me.  I hope she's okay and I hope to hear from her this week.


I'm still ruminating over my last conversation with A but considerably less. 

Some progress - when I texted my friend  to see if she had time to chat I was able to verbalize what I needed.  I need support, a listening ear to talk this through so I can, so my brain can work it through as opposed to a let's fix it kinda conversation. So for me that is big - I was able to recognize what I needed and felt safe enough to ask. 

Baby steps - baby steps!!

Also this same friend asked me to join her for a movie later this week. Going out is always a very strenuous, difficult thing.  In our conversation about meeting before and such she ended sending me a text with meeting info.  So she had listed the time, the place, how long (approx) we would be there. The distance between point A and point B, location - all of that.  Anyway that info really brought peace to me.  I didn't realize I really needed that until it did.  I thanked her for thoughtfulness and let her know how much it helped sooth any anxiety. 

I've just been catching up on your journal. Yep - trauma brain. Ugh. Poor you.

Your friend sounds lovely and caring. I'm glad you were able to tell her what you needed from her and that she obliged. It's also lovely that she made the effort to give you all the info in advance of the movie so you feel better about the outing. What are you going to see?

Wow, I could use a friend like that! 

My H and I saw Oppenheimer on Sun and it was really well done as long as you like the historical stuff.  Three hours long so good bang for the buck. 

Next we want to see Tom Cruise's new flick.  I normally don't like action movies but I like his movies I guess because he does all his own stunts. I do find it kind of crazy that he's a Scientologist. I keep thinking he must have told them something really bad when they 'cleared' him or whatever they call it. 

Sorry, blathering  :whistling:   Hope you have a good time at the movies.

Moondance,

I resonate with your comment that you know you aren't always easy to live with. You're not alone with that sentiment. I also often feel shame and remorse for putting my wife through the 40 years of dealing with my mood swings and self-destructive behaviors.

I recently realized that my trauma responses are rooted in my earliest years of life. And that when I'm feeling anxiety, fear, self-deprecation, depression, etc. that it's my tween self remembering what it felt like to be unheard, uncared for, disrespected as a human being, abused, bullied, etc, and that the fact that no one believed me then was the greatest pain of them all for me.

This is a good way for me to view my own life, because I've also recently discovered that when I come onto the forum, or visit my DBT therapist, who, btw, was also gaslighted as a boy, so he's totally empathetic to what my inner tween is feeling, that the validation from people who have walked a mile in my shoes truly helps the inner child get what he wants: To be heard and respected as a person.

I was alone with my gaslighting and outright abuse when I was a child. Today, that child comes back to life whenever he's triggered. It's becoming clearer to me that when my trusted allies believe him about the pain he's in, that my inner tween feels heard...validated. That's when he starts to let the adult in me take control again.

Being alone with the abuse was so damaging. Being connected today with others who know what that feels like, addresses the loneliness and makes me feel more okay with letting the adult in me take control. Getting empathetic support from fellow sufferers gives my inner victim the feeling that he's not alone with his pain and fear anymore.

I don't know if my words are helpful, but I hope you can feel the love from the people on this forum, and I hope you can get your T to see you, at least once a month, and that the money eventually comes to see T more often.

For now, here's an empathetic hug from a fellow sufferer of triggers and pain and fear and anxiety. I'm one of the people here who believes you 100% that your physical pains are real and they are valid. You're not alone, and you're not crazy. If you are, then we all are, and, once again, at least we're not crazy AND alone. We're crazy together.

This feeling of friendship on the forum always helps me, and I hope it helps you too.

:bighug:

Geez Louise I posted a response to you NC and Kizzie and it's not showing up lol

NC - thanks  :) yes I'm fortunate to have her in my life.  She gets it! Really gets it - but we can all guess why.  We are going to see Hiding Places - not a light hearted movie but that's right up my ally so to speak.  Lol

Kizzie - I want to see Tom Cruises latest film as well.  I don't know about him personally (of course!) LOL but I really enjoy his movies.

Well Kizzie I wish that for you in real life - a friend that will listen and hear you, one that meets you exactly where you are at.  One that respects your boundaries and doesn't push them too much or at all.  A friend who, without knowing it, will instinctively now your need at that time.  We all need a friend like that.

I have found that in all of you but experiencing it in real life is great asxwell.

Hmmmm blathering is encouraged here!!!  ;D  isn't it?!! Lol

PC - my eyes started leaking from your post.  I can feel that. Thank you so very much. Yes your words are encouraging and hopeful, so therefore very helpful. Thank you all for getting it - it does make such a difference to be heard, believed and supported.

I'm one of the people here who believes you 100% that your physical pains are real and they are valid. You're not alone, and you're not crazy. If you are, then we all are, and, once again, at least we're not crazy AND alone. We're crazy together.


 :yeahthat: - thank you for saying you believe 100% about the physical pain - I can't say in words how that feels - 😢 it helps me feel safer, it helps me to get in touch with the little girl and adult me who never felt heard or believed about that.  Certainly doctor's have not heard or believed me.  I think the masseuse has though  lol

 :grouphug: 

 

T responded thank goodness. An appointment is forthcoming.

I know it's trauma brain to even believe she wouldn't but at the time it just felt so real to me.

My household has become pretty chaotic in the last hour, so I'll just say that I'm very happy for you that your T responded!  I really identify with believing that someone will not respond to us. 

 :hug: Natureluvr,

Thank you - gosh I was so relieved.

I hope the chaos or settles for you and yours.

Thanks for responding in the midst of things being chaotic.

 :bighug:

Glad to hear your T got back to you Moondance   :thumbup:   That trauma brain just is insidious isn't it!? 

Kizzie it is crazy making stuff. 

Looking back, for many years I had identified it as the toxicity in my FOO.  I used to think if I'm around people, other than FOO, who bring this crazy feeling to me I should stay clear away.

So I knew something was not quite right even in my 20' but I didn't have a name for it. 

And yes others may have been triggering me but I see now that it was my trauma brain.  Wow!!

 

I'm glad your T responded and you have an appointment set up.

 :grouphug:

It's friggin hard to tell the difference between trauma reactions and real gut reactions. I'll smtry to pay more attention to the signals because I'm not sure how to tell...I think there's a level of certainty with gut and a horrible drowning feeling with trauma brain...

So glad T got back to you.  :hug:

Yeah it's all a muddle to me yet.

I don't recall feeling a level of certainty for sometime.  Maybe I have, and I'm just not recalling it at the moment...ugh!

 :hug: Armee

moondance, i completely believe you about your physical pain.  i'm right there with you.  i believe, for me, that my body has held all the pain over the years that i wasn't allowed or able to express. and, it's a lot, i can see that now.  unbelievable to think of how badly and often we've been hurt. i'm very sorry you have to experience that. you don't deserve it, didn't deserve to be treated badly in the first place.  also very glad you have such a wonderful friend.  love and hugs :hug:

Moondance, I hope that your inner sense gets louder with time.

Sanmagic7  :bighug:

Rainydiary  :bighug:

back atcha, moondance.  :bighug:

.   avoiding avoiding.

It's been a pattern for a long time but much worse now.

Last weeks movie didn't go as planned. I am ruminating and then shutting down.  I start to think about what happened and then just go blank, my brain literally shuts off.

I will write in point form so that I xan go back and move look at thi gs .ore in depth.  Right now it is too much.

1. J brought a friend along which was not expected, I didn't know about.  I assumed it was J and I spending some time together.  I was not prepared for that.

2.  Movie was sold out - we were unable to see the movie. 

3.  The dynamics of 3 people is different than 2 people.  I feel less discomfort with 1 other person other than myself.

4.  3 times I observed J turning g to her friend so that I couldn't see what she was saying.  First thought is why would she does this, why am I here with them.  And most likely something about me. 

5.  I felt less than, confused, angry, defensive.

6.  I'm unable to walk for long periods of time  and felt unable to say I don't want to go shopping for 4 or 5 hours. We originally were going shopping prior to the movie for a short time. 

I did get a cart to hold on to which makes walking longer possible.

I finally was able to say I'm heading out when they wanted to get an ice cream.

Since arriving back home I gave been berating myself.  Why are relationships so difficult for me. 

I had actually been looking forward to this outing.  I haven't really looked forward or felt that way for sometime. 

I feel disappointed in myself and in J.  I honestly don't think I can be in relationship with anyone. It all feels rather hopeless.  I keep picking people who really don't care about me.

I have an appointment with T on Thursday. 

I haven't heard from A for a week.
I'm afraid to call him. I feel I'm a bother, a nuisance that he's had enough already so I don't want to bother him. I feel this way a lot, that I'm a burden, nuisance to all. I feel that and have felt that at the core of me for as long as I can remember. Feeling that way about myself makes it impossible to be in a equal relationship.   

 :fallingbricks: 



 

I resonate with all the confusion in relationships with others.  I'm glad you were able to leave eventually and am sorry to hear about all the unexpected things that came your way. 

Thank you Rainydiary for resonating

I'm extremely hypervigilant and fearful when away from home. I was taking a risk.  Turns out it was way too much.  I won't be doing that again. 

I'm still too confused to respond to J's text. Or voice message.  It is very difficult to let people see me as I am.

Two big things today - I called Paul, left a message for a call back.  Anxiety rising as the hours passed but kept telling myself he' probably busy, out and about. I heard from him 1/2 hour ago.  I didn't mention any of my concerns - I was just really glad to hear his voice and to know all is well wuth him.  I still feel like something is up but telling myself over and over it will be okay.

I texted J back last night and we've texted back and forth a couple of times.  She shared she didn't understand my fear of going out.  To be honest I don't understand either but as we texted back and forth my last text explained, in a nutshell that my fear is possibly not knowing whether I will be able to look after myself in any given situation while out.  I feel that way for a number of reasons. I'm hypervigilant whilst out, I get overwhelmed easily, I could go into an EF and not be aware.  I could be dissociative, etc etc.   

I have difficulty knowing my needs, my wants or likes in a non reactive state so when any one or more of the above states come abound I'm really lost and unsafe. 

I wouldn't have been able to identify any of this 4 months ago. 

Thanks to this forum and all of you for helping me become more aware.

I so appreciate this forum.

 :grouphug:

I resonate with growing in identifying and expressing needs.  It is really challenging and I hope you find things that are supportive to you.

Thank you Rainydiary.

I'm glad you have a therapist appointment coming up. And very sorry to read how the cinema outing went. That is very disappointing. It is brave of you to be able to text your friend and explain some of these difficulties. That sounds like really good progress for you, though of course it is a shame that the circumstances put you in that position.

 :hug:

This makes so much sense and hopefully it helps being able to verbalize it and recognize it. That's often a pretty significant step for me toward getting those triggers more manageable.

Quote from: Moondance on August 08, 2023, 10:44:36 PMI have difficulty knowing my needs, my wants or likes in a non reactive state so when any one or more of the above states come abound I'm really lost and unsafe. 

NarcKiddo - yeah the more I think about it the more I believe I put myself in that position - I really should not have assumed that it was only J and I going.    I'm not on the ball as the saying goes with my needs.  It's like I forgot where I'm at which is really not good. Living in a fog I guess. J did apologize but I must take some responsibility for myself.  :hug:

Armee - yeah it does help and then I think about some more and more sense comes out of it.   It would be nice if I could know at the time though as it does make it difficult to look after myself.  Crazy stuff this is.

And I'm aware that my writing sucks. I'm not even expressing myself to the full extent possible.  My brain feels like well done toast at times.

 :hug:

I have to learn, stop being so reactive.

moondance, i think you're writing is fine.  i could understand you and relate to a lot of it, especially about being able to better care for oneself in a situation.

i think the reactivity part will come w/ time, understanding, and practice.  please don't be hard on yourself about this.  you've got trauma brain and it is reactive, what you've been thru has caused the reactivity, it's what you learned to do to protect yourself.  as time and healing pass, the reactivity will lessen, of that i have no doubt.  love and hugs :hug:

😢

thank you San - I needed that and really appreciate it.

I'm in Peter Walker's book and reading Chapter 16 about the suggested intentions for recovery, the human bill of rights (guidelines for fairness and intimacy), suggested internal responses to common critic attacks,  tools for loving resolving conflict, self-gratitudes and gratitudes for others and finally 13 steps for managing flashbacks.

I often, more often than not make a choice to zone out, whether consciously or not, by watching tv and playing a game on the phone.

Nothing will change if I continue to do this.  A vicious mary-go-round and I want to get off of it.



 
 

Just read this and it makes so much sense to me. 

Your brain on stress can't listen.
It builds walls that prevent you from building the connections you crave.
It prevents you from seeing what's right in front of you.

Creating safe and nourishing connections with other people is a skill that includes your capacity to listen and stay with yourself. Safety is not something you find out there, like a hidden treasure chest. It is something you cultivate by the quality of your presence and the clarity of your intention.

Your daily inner sense of feeling solid and capable is the groundwork for trust.

So yeah, trauma brain is (as mentioned before) what is happening.

On a whole other topic that makes ne feel a bit better I've been a little something everyday, whether organizing, cleaning, washing, etc etc.  The goal is to move more.

My appointment with T was good this morning. 

I feel more regulated as a result of it and realize that with the last 2 incidences I was experiencing dysregulation. I'm still not really great at identifying dysregulation.

Before my appointment with T I was thinking gosh we have to find some way to deal with this dysregulation (I was calling it reactive but T used dysregulation)because it is just awful to be in it and the process of recovering from it. And it affects other people in a negative way which I really don't like doing. 

So 10 minutes in to session T suggests learning, practicing soothing my child parts when I am feeling dysregulated.  I like it went that happens.    Easier said than done though but that is most likely why she said practicing.  I will be practicing.  I often freeze in the moment but as T mentioned, I can practice soothing my younger parts after a trigger or EF. Perhaps that will eventually get me to be present in the moment and look after myself better. One step at a time.

I mentioned to T the 2 main  dysregulating incidents over the past few weeks.   T pointed out to me that I was able to ask J for support and I received it which is really good.  And actually in both situations J was supportive which is great - it's stepping stones for building trust and learning to be vulnerable in relationship. 

Whether I'm able to do it or not I don't know yet but I want to be stronger, healthier for A.  I feel I owe it to him.  I just don't know if I can do it - we will see I guess.  As I wrote that I thought I should want to do this for me, shouldn't I?  I'm not there yet so wanting to get better for someone else will hopefully get me to a point where I want to for myself.


I do feel shame and embarrassment for some of my posts.  I say that to acknowledge how I'm feeling but I am in the process of getting more comfortable with accepting that there are more than 1 part of me expressing myself - as per Peter Walker's "intentions for recovery" - I want to develop a more constantly loving and accepting relationship with myself. 


Yesterday I ironed the living room curtain valance and put it back up.

Today I will iron the kitchen and dining room valances and put them back up.  I took them down 2 years ago (or more, not sure) and did not get around to putting them back up until today.  It feels good to get something done.




 



 

Quote from: Moondance on August 09, 2023, 11:22:58 PMOn a whole other topic that makes ne feel a bit better I've been a little something everyday, whether organizing, cleaning, washing, etc etc.  The goal is to move more.

:cheer:  :cheer:  :cheer: also on the specifics of valance cleaning in your next post.
I resonate a whole lot with this!

 :wave: Hi Blueberry -  :thumbup:

And I do so resonate in regards to your reference to the "rule pusher".  I can't recall now if that's the exact word you used in your post but yeah true for me as well.


Rule enforcer  - much better than rule pusher. 🙃




 

Yay for your T and yay for a practicing mentality!

And holy moly itnwould never in a million years even occur to me to iron a window covering. Wow. Kudos to you!

***POSSIBLE TRIGGERS - CSA, NEGLECT, ABANDONMEMT, RELIGIOUS ABUSE ****





One of the things that came from the session with T today is that growing up in a toxic environment pretty much set me up for the CSA, the bullying, the domestic violence, etc, etc.

I was not allowed to express any feeling other than positive feelings.  I was sent to my room to 'think' about things and not allowed to come out until I was feeling better - which was happy, grateful for the air I breathed I guess.

The thing about that is that I think a lot of parents do that - send children to their room to reflect and/or disallow a behaviour. The more I think of it I don't think that was really the whole problem - the problem lies in that I was not ever taught how to deal with the negative feelings such as anger, for example. Ideally it would have been very useful for me how to process these feelings for myself, instead i learned to stuff them which has been hugely detrimental to me.  Nor did I learn how to deal with conflict. Nor was I allowed to have my own opinion, nor was I allowed to speak up for myself.  I simply never learnt these tools.  I did learn though that adults are to be listened to and that I was to do as I was told or else.  There was a palpitable anger coming from my M. That is how she controlled us.  If looks could kill comes to mind.  My M was brutally physically and mentally abused by her M. No doubt some of the anger came from that.  We never knew when she would loose it.

I was 12 when the priest made advances.  Prior to the advances he was councelling me.  I was having difficulties at home - parents were getting divorced.  I've blocked a lot of it out but I recall confiding in him, crying, being vulnerable.  I recall him coming over to visit me at my father's place after the separation.  I was alone at home, I was ill, I was in bed.  I don't recall anything after that.  I have a sense that something happened. I do recall not being able to speak up, not being able to say no.  I don't recall when it ended or stopped.  I do know that 20 years ago this priest was accused, was jailed and stripped of his credentials.  A wonderful woman started a website (canadian) and it lists the priests names, the accusations, whether they were charged, etc.  The victims that choose to be listed are there as well. Anyway I found this site and information on this site to be extremely satisfying although very sad for the victims and the many victims there are and the pain and changed lives at the hands of these priests.

Anyway I got carried away with that.

The next CSA experience I was 13. I wasn't 100% certain it was CSA but since I have been on this forum and learned more about CSA and its definition this does in fact fall under CSA definition.

He was 19 I was 13. He was a co-sponsor for an Alateen group I was attending.  He was methodically de-flowering (not sure how else to say it) all of the young girls in this group.  His family was friends with my parents. His mom was my mom's sponsor. He also used to have "charismatic" meetings at his parents house.  I don't recall any other guys at these meetings., only young girls, woman from the ages of 12 to 18.    I did not have an understanding at the time of what he was doing.  Long and short of it well thinking about it makes me feel ill to my stomach.  ** added from initial post*** He would have the meetings, I recall being in a circle, everyone was holding hands, chanting prayer in tongues, I pretended to pray in tongues to feel a part of.  After the meeting is when it happened the first time.  There were many times after.

I'm getting weary, feel ill now but I would like to finish my post as best I can.

When I was 15 I was raped at gunpoint.  When I spoke with T this morning this incident is what came to my mind when we were talking about freezing, dissociating. Probably in this situation it saved my life.  At a much deeper level though, at a trauma brain level I learnt freezing and dissociation over and over again.

I feel I learnt at a young age to not speak up for myself, to not say no, to not be able to look after myself, to not feel or allow myself to feel what I really feel.  I didn't always see it this way but I was sexualized, feels like continually, from a very yound age.  Its buried deep.

I'm connecting some of the dots.

I previously have written about these incidents and others but was not ready at the time for it to be out there so I deleted my post.  I will not be deleting this post unless asked to of course.

That is so tough to have experienced, Moondance. You are probably right that the instinct to freeze during the episode when you were 15 was absolutely the right one. But, as you say, it was yet another instance cementing the freezing and dissociating and contributing to trauma brain. That incident alone would be traumatic for anyone, but when added to what had gone before it is just unspeakably awful.

I have had a similar experience of never being taught how to manage my emotions or conflict. It sets you up for lifelong difficulties. Trying to learn these things as an adult is just SO much harder. Everyone knows small kids act out but adults are expected to know this stuff already.

I must say I am very impressed by your valance activities. It is good to get things done and something like a valance is a very obvious sign of a finished job that you can be proud of every time you walk into the room.

Hi NarcKiddo,

I have had a similar experience of never being taught how to manage my emotions or conflict. It sets you up for lifelong difficulties. Trying to learn these things as an adult is just SO much harder. Everyone knows small kids act out but adults are expected to know this stuff already.

Yes, lifelong difficulties for sure.  I feel angry about it because its caused so much pain in my life, put me in harms way countless times.  I'm sure the same for you and many of us, if not all and I'm so sorry for all of us about that. I may have expressed this here before but I strongly feel that my parents should not have been procreating. 

If I am understanding correctly, your response SO much harder implies it can be done.  :cheer:

 Perhaps now that I have a trauma informed T it will be possible.  Thanks for the glimmer of hope 🙂.

It is a really good feeling to get some stuff done for sure. The valances above the curtains look good, a finished look.  Today is laundry and cleaning - really don't feel like it today.

First thing this morning the internet was down. I was panicked, which is not a good feeling as my lifeline to this forum was cut off.  Even though I lost intermittently I read your posts every single day and it all keeps me going.  I go from one extreme to another it seems.  Closed off or dependant- ahhh someday to be healthy and free - I look forward to that.

Gosh i just wish I could offer a real hug for all you've been through.  :hug:

You are absolutely correct to place that blame on your parents. 1000%.

And I agree about the procreating. I was also just saying to my T yesterday that we (me and my sis) should have been taken out of our home. She had no business raising children. Lol and at the height of it all she wanted to adopt a kid.

It is amazing to me how many similarities we all share. I am so glad you are back with your T a little bit. There is a path to relief from the worst of it.

 :hug:

 :hug: and thank you for the virtual hug

Gee Armee now that you mention it my M took in kids from the children's aid.   :stars:  ???  And she also took in one of my dad's nieces for a few years - I found that same niece, cousin to me in my bedroom making out with that Alateen Co-sponsor. At 13 I thought I was in love with him - the betrayal was deep and that same pattern of unfaithful partners continued through my life. 

I can see as I write why I'm so exhausted, depressed anxious and diagnosed with CPTSD.  I'm most likely repeating myself but that will happen for a bit I think.  There hasn't been a year, time I can remember without trauma.

Also that speaks to, I think why I sporadically post as it all is so overwhelming. 

Thank goodness for my T, yes! every 4 weeks is better than none.

 :bighug: 

It is overwhelming and your story and all of ours has so many layers. I find when things are the worst it is too overwhelming to even know where to start with posting or what to say so that's when I am quietest. Its normal for your posting to wax and wane. We're here when you are.

 :grouphug:

 

Quote from: Armee on August 11, 2023, 05:31:11 PMIt is overwhelming and your story and all of ours has so many layers. I find when things are the worst it is too overwhelming to even know where to start with posting or what to say so that's when I am quietest. Its normal for your posting to wax and wane. We're here when you are.

 :grouphug:

 

 :grouphug: - always appreciate hugs and support

 :woohoo: I finally figured out  how to use the "Quote" option!!

Moondance I want to say kudos to you for so many insights and good steps you are taking as a result of your therapy session! 

What you told us in your post about the CSA incidents - I just want to say shame on the people who did that. Your were a completely innocent child, and they took advantage of your youth, and the way you were already programmed by your FOO.  You have every reason and right to be angry!  I feel angry on your behalf, especially because of the priest, and the Alateen sponsor who took advantage of you.   :pissed:  :pissed: I truly believe that there is a God, and someday he will call them to account for their unconscionable behavior. 

I resonate very much with being raised to not process emotions, to only do as I was told, no skills for conflict management, etc.  It's a horrible way to raise a child. You deserved so much better than that.

 :bighug:

Thank you so much for your encouragement and support Natureluvr - it really means lot to me.

I believe there is a God as well.  I hope he does hold them accountable. Who knows perhaps he already has.

I'm really sorry to hear you resonate with my post about not being allowed to process emotions, to only do as you were told, and not provided tge skills for conflict management.  It made doing life that much more difficult.  You deserved so much better as well Natureluvr- for all those that struggle or struggled with this deserved so, so much more.


 :bighug:

I'm feeling super tired, sore and just no energy today.

I did get a lot done yesterday around the house.  There is a lot more. I'm taking a break for today. 

It seems to be all or nothing behaviour and I simply can't overdue it anymore.

I dreamt of an old employer last night.  It was not a good feeling to wake up to.  I can describe it as feeling displaced, rejected which for me brings to the forefront my feelings of unworthiness, that something is and has always been inherently wrong with me.  Absolutely hate that feeling. 

Buttttt I'm in the process of figuring out why I have always felt that way about myself. 

Thinking of you as you sort through this.

Thank you Rainydiary  :hug:

My heart goes out to you thinking all you've gone through and applaud your courage to get it out into words  :cheer:

My story is similar in many ways, so it resonates deeply.

That's all I can say now, but I'm here and will read and support you in the ways I can. :hug: if it feels supportive to you.

Thank you DD  :hug:to you back - that means a lot to me. And yes hugs feel supportive and I feel care from them.

I'm so sorry my story resonates with you - hearing that though helps me to feel so not alone. 

Hi Moondance,

I read your last few journal entries and I just wanted to say I hear you and am sorry for what you went through growing up.

Sending you support and a hug if it feels right  :hug:

dolly

Thank you Dollyvee - I really appreciate your support and yes hugs do feel supportive even if sometimes I can't seem to take it in at times. 

 :hug: back to you if okay

Thank you for hearing me - those words mean so much.

t

Quotenot being allowed to process emotions, to only do as you were told, and not provided tge skills for conflict management.  It made doing life that much more difficult.

moondance, emotions weren't allowed me, either, from the time i was a baby, i think, except smiling/looking happy.  i developed alexithymia, which meant i could not identify anything i might be feeling, let alone actually feel or express it. (it often goes along w/ autism and i'm on the edge of that spectrum). as you said, it did, indeed, make doing life more difficult.  to this day, most of my feelings are beyond my access, so i don't get to 'feel' happiness or anything else uplifting, either,. so sorry for anyone who's experienced this. love and hugs  :hug:

That resonates with me as well San - the inability to identify, feel or express how I feel. Yep

 :hug: Back to to you, always.

Yesterday was just a non energy day.

I didn't get in the shower til 230 in the afternoon.  My supper consisted of my garden potatoes, Beet tops and beans from my neighbor. 

Around 630 my neighbor, Spin and his wife called and invited me over to play cards in their gazebo.  I found myself saying yes instead of no unusual for me.    Long story short - it was fun for all - we played from 7 to 1230 am.   I really like his wife and I feel safe with her. I sense her motherly love within her.  I've witnessed her relationship with 1 of her sons.  I see she is proud of him, supportive of him and very respectful of him. And she treats her husband well.

This does bring a lot of emotion up - I think in part it's grieving. It's recognizing or seeing how things could have, should have been for us all, for me, for my siblings. I feel sadness for myself but my siblings also.

I don't trust this feeling I'm having and am certain I'll be let down, etc.  I even feel quite silly and want to delete what I've posted thus far - but I won't delete it.

Ahhhhh I know its that parts of me are saying or feeling I can trust her. And other parts are saying no do not trust her.

I'm not yet sure which part is saying what yet.  But I'm now well aware that my trauma brain is going 'crazy' - now known to me as an EF.

enough for now



 

 :hug:

 :hug: to you as well Armee

Thinking of you  :hug:

moondance, so glad you figured out which parts were saying what about your neighbor. very perceptive and self-tuned.  well done! 

sending love and a hug filled w/ continuing clarity!  :hug:

Thank you San  :hug: with continued clarity  - need that and love it.

A thought occurred to me just now. I am thinking about A, on his way back from his trip.

My thought(s) about this may not make any sense just yet but I want to get it down so I can revisit.

First of all I believe I was experiencing an EF prior to A leaving.  I can see now that I was very confused.  It felt like someone put their hand in my brain, grabbed all the parts and shook them up, dropped them and they all feel out of place.  When I typed "all the parts" I thought hmmm??? Perhaps it's that all the different parts were trying to say something all at the same time hence all the confusion??  This really might be making more sense after all.

I have felt this same way so, so many other times.  This confusion, so many different thoughts coming at once not even really realizing what is happening at the time.

With A away I've been able to de-stress, only look after me and I believe a little clarity is coming from that. 

This also fits with the feeling or belief I can't be around more that 1 person.  I get too hypervigilant, overestimated is the word I'm looking for.  Is that because of the different parts I wonder? I will have to read up on parts as all I know about parts is from what has been shared here and my T making reference to a part.

I want to be so much better for A but am afraid I just can't be.  I really don't need to put any more pressure on myself but I would like to do better. I definitely need to communicate more with him.  Like let him know what is happening at the time.  I find that almost impossible.  It takes me weeks to figure stuff out and thats weeks on my own, with minimal brain  stimulation.

I am very anxious about his return and still very much fear he will want to leave me.  Adult ne understand why and that that is his choice of course.  The rest of me screams, terrified that he will make that choice.  Ugh

I am thankful I can see and verbalize how I'm feeling or thinking.  The actual feelings seem frozen though.

It does sound like a lot of conflicting parts all at once, which is very normal. Even for people without a lot of trauma.  :hug: I've been doing a bit of parts work, not a ton compared to others here and not in the super formal way. But it does seem to help to notice which parts are present, how they show up in terms of body sensations and emotions, what purpose they serve and thanking them for helping in that way and taking all the points of view into consideration empathetically. Like you would with a group of young children.
It's helped me get to an internal compromise a few times and to understand things at play I had no awareness of (like parts of myself being very angry at other parts for freezing and submitting and other stuff...I had no idea I blamed myself for any of it, but I did). 

I wish you luck with A's return. I know a lot of times people around me have no idea how crazy it is in my head so perhaps you are not scaring A off at all because most of the freaking out is internal only.

Thank you for this Armee - really appreciated and it's most helpful.

One of T's suggestions from my last session is to learn to sooth my part(s). To close my eyes, go to my 11-12 year old or whatever age and acknowledge the sadness, fear, whatever feeling is there.  And then tell her she is okay, that I'm going to take care of her, let her know she is safe.

I'm to practice being aware of how my body is feeling if no actual memory and put my hand on the body part that hurts providing comfort in that moment. 

One of the things T said that really struck me and I wrote down is "movement stops retraumatization".

****

I have been having internet/phone issues so cable guy came this morning to fix. 

He made a comment about all the scriptures I have posted in my office and asked if I was a christian.

I couldn't answer yes or no.  A split in my head so another part? I don't know?  These are my thoughts on this because they come up all the time.  And since I seem to be having moments of clarity I'm going to write it down to revisit in the context of my conversation with cable guy as i remember it.. I will call him Tim.

I was unable to respond right away.

Tim - well it's simple, its either yes or no.

I mumbled a bit was feeling a bit of pressure. Finally i was able to say, "Yes, I believe in the Lord and always will but I don't pray (well seldom anymore), I don't read or study the Bible and I no longer go to church. (In my mind because I no longer practice these things I'm not a christian). 

Tim - the Bible and prayer is what heals us.

Me - yes, well, the Lord is still with me and I with him. 

Tim - why did you stop or what happened that made you stop?

Me - have you heard of CPTSD?
Tim - no
Me - You've heard of PTSD right - war veterans experience PTSD
Tim - yes
Me - CPTSD is complex PTSD which stems from multiple traumas whether from childhood or adulthood.

Tim - how does that stop you from reading/studying the Bible, prayer or going to church. Because the Bible is so healing you should read it.

Me - well I have difficulty with concentration and taking in what I'm reading or sometimes even taking in conversation.  I easily get over-stimulated making it impossible for me to go to church. And I have experienced religious abuse multiple times which means I no longer feels safe in that environment.  (Just realizing the enormity of this now)  telling I 'should' do something feels like my power of choice is being taken away from me. I told him I understand and see his heart and that his saying I 'should' is not meant in a bad way. Its simply my response to it.

At this point I am feeling emotional, voice starting to crack, crying.  I feel he genuinely cares and whenever I feel that in a semi strong way it touches parts of me that are raw, hurt, missing being cared for. 

Tim - He acknowledges me, my emotion by saying I see you, I see your hearts.   If your okay with it we can pray together before I leave?


Me - no I'm not able to do that but thank you.

********

Just received confirmation that A left at 6 am this morning.

What a day and it's only noon! Geesh!!!
 

WOW Moondance! That's amazing you were able to have that conversation right in the moment with Tim.

It truly was!

Not sure how that all happened yet! Lol

It's great practice, that's for sure!

A left U.S. at 6 am this morning
and arrived at 10 pm.

So he left Everett, Washington and arrived in Alberta in 1 day.

He was supposed to stay overnight somewhere but no no no he had to push it. Lol

moondance, that was a cable guy w/ all those questions, assumptions, and judgme4nts?  i think he was way out of line - just my opinion.  i think you dealt with it really well, tho, so congrats to you! :applause: well done! :thumbup:

i think the idea of putting your hand on the hurting part to let them know they're safe and cared for is a lovely idea.  i hope you can keep it up.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you so much San - I hope I can keep it up as well.

I am catching up on some sleep.  I had a 4 hour afternoon nap.  I think I have been operating on adrenaline for the past 2 weeks or so.  And I have been drinking caffeinated coffee (1 per day) which did not help.

********

It's the first day A is back and I can see some of the reasons I felt overwhelmed. 

He talks a lot and repeats the same things over and over.  I have yet to figure out why this is with me, that hearing/listening to people talk has an effect on my brain - I get overwhelmed quite quickly.  I do not react the same way to sounds from the TV- loud sounds, yes but people talking does not bother me the same when hearing from the TV.

Whether I'm doing something else or not does not matter he will talk over it.  I'm certain he's not really aware nor is it done to be hurtful but it triggers me.

I have asked previously or said I'm in the middle of something, let ne finish this first then we can talk.  Unfortunately by then, he has forgotten what he was wanting to say.  He's not been diagnosed with alzheimers or dementia but has some real memory issues.

Anyway I need to find ways to look after myself better. 

Two options come to mind right away.

1.  I can go for a drive
2.  I can go to my room for quiet.

I really like quiet.



 

I have a 5 year old that talks non stop. And if not talk, creates sound. I so feel you. With my frazzled nervous system that is exhaustive.

It is a lot harder to take care of oneself when around people who don't for whatever reason listen to what you're saying and respect that. Go easy on yourself. The fact you're able to ask them to wait IS taking care of you. It's a BIG thing already.

Any chance to be in quiet is what I go for wheb I have the kids. Your ideas sound solid. Toilet is my emergency "leave me alone". If nothing else works.

I'm here for you. Walking besides you.  :cheer: For us and everyone walking the same paths.

:bighug:

Thank you so much DD - I so appreciate your support and encouragement. 

The bathroom idea is great - thanks!

It makes sense that with our frazzled nervous systems this is harder in our trauma brain and exhausting.

 :cheer: for each of us

 :bighug:

Hi Moondance,

I want to echo what San said about the internet guy overstepping his bounds. Asking those questions and demanding an answer was way out of line to me as well, and you had every right to shut him down. Well done for asserting your boundaries. I think it's a hard thing to do for a lot of us. I'm sorry too that you experienced religious trauma.

I was very anxious in relationships about someone leaving me as well and would be hypervigilant about everything that happened and what it meant. Any kind of distance would spin me out. I also felt very "suffocated" when they were around, like everything was too much. I recently retook an attachment test and found out that I have disorganized/fearful avoidant attachment. When I read other peoples' experiences of what it was like to have FA attachment, it made so much more sense that attachment was a "thing," and it wasn't just me that was flawed etc, ruining relationships, that there was/is a pattern of what was going on and why it was happening. I thought it might speak to some of the things you're experiencing.

Sending you support,
dolly

Moondance, I think it's great that you have good insight into what about A's behavior is crossing your boundaries (talking too much, or talking while you are doing other things), and have come up with 2 good options for how to set boundaries on this. 

I also think you did a pretty good job setting boundaries with that cable guy.  IMO, it sounds like he was crossing the line to me as well, asking you personal questions about your spiritual life.  I too have experienced religious abuse, and have had issues with organized religion, but still believe in Jesus.  You are right - the Lord is with us, whether or not we go to church, etc. 

Now that a few days have gone by I can look in hindsight and see that I was answering his questions (my truth) not so much to give him answers per say but to speak to a christian and let them know my truth, on my territory.  I think I felt a bit in control. I didn't realize it at the time but possibly that is what was going on.

And standing up for my parts. It wasn't easy, I didn't just slide through it lol but I am glad I did.

And yes I agree I could have shut it down much sooner. His questions were really inappropriate.  I find some Christians are very much like that which is why I don't feel safe in that environment.

Thank you everyone for your support, encouragenent, confirmation that I was correct in my observation about boundaries.

 :bighug:

I'm so very tired. I ran a couple of errands this morning.  Got back home around 130. I had a bite to eat and lied down around 4 pm - didn't wake up til 8 pm.

My bones hurt, my feet hurt.

I really wanted to do some work / reading/journals.  I didn't get to it and feel too tired to do so.

I'm sorry you feel tired but glad to read that you had a rest. Don't beat yourself up about not getting to the things you planned. Too often we overwork ourselves when we should instead be taking the rest our body is telling us we need.

I hope the hurting stops soon.

hey, moondance, i get the idea of wanting to respond to others' journals but just don't have the wherewithal to do so.  as i've been told many times (probably even by you), not to worry.  do what you need to do for you.  we know you're with us.

hopefully you can get some rest, a little relaxation, naps, whatever helps shoo the tireds away.  i'll read to you if that helps, bring you a little something to sip on, watch a fun flick, and we can just chill. or not, if you'd rather be left alone.  your call.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you both so much - I think, as you both suggested I will lean into it.

Reading to me sounds so comforting San yeah I really like that idea of just chilling together and a hot tea.

I will try to listen to my body - that does takes precence of mind but I will try.

I was fast asleep again by 12:30 am last night and didn't get up til 10:30 am this morning.

It probably didn't help that it had been raining for 2 days and I forgot my medication for 2 days.

Hi Moondance, best wishes into tuning in and listening to your body.  I hope you find what helps you feel rested. 

Hi Rainydiary,

Thank you so much for your support and encouragement.

It comes to mind that guilt and shame are a part of what stops me from looking after myself at times.

Thinking of you today Rainydiary.

 :hug:

I'm not sure why but I no longer see the "introduction" posts for new members listed on the "Boards"?

Is anyone else having this issue?

I figured it out - when I'm not logged in I can see the usual Boards.

A's older brother was in hospital for a surgery and had a stroke.  They caught it right away so he's recovering from it well.

I bring this up because another of A's brothers is coming to pick A up to go visit older brother at hospital. 

I've been asked to join but feel it would be very uncomfortable for me, lots of people at hospital, I don't know who will all be there, I don't know what to say in these situations. 

I do feel some sense of obligation but that's not a good reason to go. 

I just hate this feeling - always worried and anxious of judgment.

 :fallingbricks:

Yeah IBS kicked in - not going  anywhere

Hi Moondance,
I hope your IBS symptoms settle soon so you feel better.
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope - it has settled somewhat.

I'm just realizing now that this would have been a good time to practice what T suggested, but I didn't think of it til just now.

That is what I will do now.

awww, moondance - IBS is the gift that keeps on giving!  i know from experience.  totally a pain in the patoot, so to speak.  glad the brother is recovering. keep taking care of you.  love and hugs :hug:

Moondance, it's great that you have the self awareness to know that going to the hospital to see A's brother would be too much for you, and to know that it's not good to do things out of a sense of obligation.  How are you these days?

 :wave: Natureluvr,
I'm doing okay and thank you for asking Natureluvr.

I don't know that's its self awareness lol might be simply too tired to try but thank you your support means a lot to me.

I've been posting mostly in my private journal on this forum.  I really want to get some of this stuff out of me.

Hope all is well with you. 

I recently removed myself from a What's app christian group I belonged to -  I kept receiving messages, platitudes really that just continue the feeling or cycle of guilt, shame etc etc. 

Nope I'm done with it until I can feel stronger and reject it without removing  myself entirely.  For the time being I have to concentrate on my safety, trauma brain safety.  Whether good or bad choice it's my choice and for me that feels empowering.

 :bighug: 

Moondance, I'm proud of you for removing yourself from a group that perpetuates shame and guilt.  I think you made a good choice.  I'm doing well, thank you for asking.  I think I may also join the private journaling group. 

Moondance,

I'm also proud of you for removing yourself from the religious site. It's been my experience that healing happens when people accept us for who we are and what we're going through. All too often, faith-based groups have, rather than accepting me for my pain and struggles, they pretty much told me how I was supposed to feel and believe. It was, for me, invalidating. Perpetuating shame and guilt comes from constantly making me feel like I'm not okay as I am and I need to be what they tell me to be.

It sounds silly, but sometimes I like to impersonate the old cartoon character I grew up with, Popeye, who used to say "I am what I am and that's all I am."  People who accept me for that have helped me. People who've indicated that it's not okay to be who I am and that I need to follow their doctrines have not helped me.

I recently took a short class on happiness. The host posted a quote from someone that said true happiness is found in those of us who are our authentic selves. As a person with CPTSD, I tend to be a people pleaser, which makes me happy while I'm being accepted for my actions, but then makes me feel used and abused and unloved later.  I don't know for sure what my authentic self looks like, but I'm allowing myself to truly respect those who I come across who aren't afraid to show the world who they are, no matter how much criticism they take from the public.

I grew up in a time when every single aspect of my clothing and haircut was to be in conformity with the general public. I was just talking with my wife last night about it. Our grandson wants a particular haircut, and we both acknowledged that our hair cuts weren't optional when we were kids in the 1960s and 1970s. If my hair was too short I was accused of being a skinhead. If my hair was too long I was accused of being a sissy. Back then, my mother made my shirts and then made my cutoffs out of old pants I'd outgrown. She cut them off halfway up the thigh. That got me mercilessly tormented in public because other boys were wearing super short shorts. My wife said that she once wore a scarf to school and took abuse because she'd tied the knot on the wrong side.

We were raised to conform, not to be our authentic selves. And now look at my wife and I. Both traumatized and afraid to be who we are around our peers. My wife bought me a kilt for my birthday this year. NO WAY will I wear it where anyone can see me. I'm way too traumatized by having been tortured for decades if I dared be different or bold in public. So, my current theme right now is I'm trying to discover my authentic self and I'm trying to work up the courage to be who I am rather than who people tell me to be.

Thank you both - I found it difficult to do for sure but know it was the right thing to do.

I feel the same Papa Coco - I feel I've been beaten down to a pulp emotionally countless times.

No wonder we are people pleasers and have difficulty with knowing our authentic self.

Good for you PC - I stand with you in discovering your authentic self.
I'm cheering for both of you  :cheer:

I had a chat with my cousin, let's call her D.

She is the only family member I speak with.  I have strict boundaries that anything about me not be shared with others, whether family or not.

One the main reasons I choose to speak with her is because she is trauma informed - it feels somewhat safe.

Anyway she mentioned a book called, "what happened to You" by Dr. Bruce D Perry and Oprah.



Has anyone read it?

I have not read What Happened To You but it's a great title. Complex PTSD is confusing because so many of us didn't know we were being gaslighted when it was happening. We need a little help making sense of it all.

I'm glad to hear you have a cousin who you can remain connected with. Going No Contact with family was tough for me to do because I didn't hate everyone in it. Having a cousin to keep contact with must feel kind of good. :)

Moondance, I'm glad you have that family member and that they respect your boundaries.

PC it does feel good to be connected to someone in FOO but
there is a risk.  Well I guess there's a risk with anything we do.

The only thing is I think it also keeps me connected somehow to the rest of the family.  I literally can feel the strings pulling at my heart for the rest of my FOO.  I miss being part of which is weird because I never really felt part of.  Very confusing to me these feelings towards or about FOO.

Thank you Rainydiary - I appreciate that. 

**************

My cousin will be celebrating her 60th this month.  She was with me on my 60th a couple of years ago.  She shared with me a couple of weeks ago how all she wanted for her birthday was to be with all of her immediate family but because of current dynamics within her family that will not be happening.

I asked her how she would feel about me coming for a visit for her birthday.  She said yes and she called a friend to see if we could stay at their cottage for the week.  So I booked a flight to go for a week.  I'll be flying out Sept 25 and back October 1. 

I did get cancellation insurance because I'm just not sure and as much as I want to be there for her birthday I don't know for sure if I'll make it without falling apart before the time comes.

D texted this morning and kind of gave me the low down on what the tentative plan is. 

She will pick me up at the airport and we will go straight to the lake/cottage.  On her birthday day she gave me the choice to either have her mom (my mother's sister) & husband and uncle Yves (my mother's brother) and his SO join us at the cottage to celebrate her birthday or meet them at a restaurant and if not she would meet with them and I would/could stay at the cottage. 

Sounds pretty good and considerate towards me.

So I had to think about and make a decision and I find that really difficult, emotional and painful.  I've been on the verge of a good cry ever since.

A just left for a bike ride so I feel I can now let go if I need to.

I don't think either my aunt or uncle have anything to do with my mother.  I just think I could not keep it together emotionally meeting up with them.  Nor do I want them to see me as I am now. 

My throat is soar from trying not to cry.  I'm eating to keep it together while I'm typing.

I really am not or do not like myself or where I'm at. And I'm so very angry at the moment at all this stuff. I'm also sad and very tired.