Out of the Storm

I have struggled with the decision to start a recovery journal on here because I know how difficult I have always found it to share my thoughts, feelings and experiences with others in the past. I think that I am a very good listener but when it comes to speaking my own truth and connecting with others I tend to just freeze. It's a lonely, petrifying and shameful feeling but so far I have never been able to move beyond it. I don't want to be a burden to anyone and so I have wondered whether it would be the right decision to start sharing what is going on in my life, however the truth is that I feel like I don't really have another option if I want to heal.
I have only very recently hit rock bottom when I lost my job and any connection with the person I love within the same day. It was (and still is) a most traumatic experience that hast caused me to suffer from intense emotional flashbacks and deepened my depression to a point where I was thinking about taking my own life. The only reason I am still here is because I don't want to cause any further hurt to the few people that are remaining in my life. I know that if I gave in to my suicidal thoughts, my personal pain would end, but the suffering wouldn't really go away, it would just get added to the people around me who would have to live with the consequences.
So, I am trying desperately to find a way to heal and move forward. There are times when I get completely overwhelmed with anxiety because I have no idea where life is going to lead me, but there are also moments when I am starting to feel a little bit better and those are the moments I am desperately clinging to for life.
It's proving to be very difficult to find another job and I am finding it quite hard to soothe my broken heart, but I am slowly and gradually starting to process all that has happened to me in the past- not only the most recent traumatic events but especially also all the emotional and physical abuse that have made me the person I am today.

So, I hope that I will be able to use this journal to write about some of the things that happen to me as I am trying to recover from all the pain I am feeling at the moment. I feel very vulnerable even putting these words out there but I know that if anyone can truly understand, it's going to be the people in this forum.

It's a scary thing to embrace your vulnerability in this way and start sharing some of your innermost thoughts (that I have never been able to express before) but I feel like I have nothing to lose at this point so I can only hold on to the small hope I have left that I can somehow find a way to heal - perhaps with the help of all of you.

Thanks for taking the time to read this (and possibly any following entries to this journal), it means a lot to me.

hi Milkandhoney
It really is such a scary thing to embrace your vulnerability like you said.
I hope your journal will be a wonderful tool to help you with that, knowing that those who read and reply can empathize with you and want you to progress with your recovery.
You have a willing audience, you are not a burden at all.
I think the journal writing has helped me be more vulnerable outside of here even.
I hope so for you too ..  I'm sorry for what you've been through.

Quote from: phil72 on November 15, 2022, 04:04:39 PM
hi Milkandhoney
It really is such a scary thing to embrace your vulnerability like you said.
I hope your journal will be a wonderful tool to help you with that, knowing that those who read and reply can empathize with you and want you to progress with your recovery.
You have a willing audience, you are not a burden at all.
I think the journal writing has helped me be more vulnerable outside of here even.
I hope so for you too ..  I'm sorry for what you've been through.

Thank you so much, Phil. I really appreciate your reply and I hope that you're right and I do get to become a little more vulnerable over time

Hi Milkandhoney,

That's a beautifully written post to start your journal with. I'm sorry to hear about losing your job and the person you love on the same day! That's two big deals at once. However, I'm so very glad to hear that you kept yourself from suicide, and I agree with your reason for pushing it away. I have spent most of my life pushing it away also. Today, I rely on the same reasoning you do, that if I harm myself, or leave the planet by my own hand, that I will horrifically and permanently traumatize the people who love me.

I have all the proof I need that suicide is the worst thing I could do to my loved ones. In 2008 I lost my baby sister to suicide. That was 14 years ago, and I'm in tears right now as I write about it. I haven't stopped missing her, nor have I ever been able to stop blaming myself for not stepping in and rescuing her before it was too late. So, lesson learned. I now know I can't do that to my wife, son, daughter-in-law, grandsons or friends. If I truly love the few people who have loved me unconditionally, then I won't do that to them.

We, C-PTSD folks, usually Fawn types, often don't realize how many people really do love us. We tend to be empathetic people, and others appreciate that more than we even know. So... it's best for these people for me to keep going and let old age get me when it's the right time.

I encourage you to write as much as you feel safe writing about in this Recovery Journal. The journal is yours to do or say what you need to. You can write long stories or short blurbs. It's yours. If you want to start by slowly telling small bits to see how others might react, that's just fine. In fact it's a good plan to not push yourself harder than needed. I respect your apprehension. Pushing yourself to tell more than you're comfortable telling would feed into the trauma you're already dealing with.

If you're like me, I tend to delete more posts than I post because after I write them, I feel too vulnerable and too in danger of being scolded or laughed at. It would never happen on this forum, but my trauma voice still remembers a thousand times in life when I said too much and brought a wave of criticism and judgment instead of the help I was asking for. So my trauma voice protects me by deleting posts that it feels are too revealing. I know that we humans don't like to air our dark sides, but like you said, healing won't happen if we continue to hide our problems from those who care about us.

I guess vulnerability is a double-edged sword. It can put us in danger if we're vulnerable to the wrong people, but it can also be our savior if we're vulnerable to the right people. And so far, my year on this forum has proven that these are the right people to be vulnerable with.

My trauma makes me delete a lot of posts I didn't need to delete, but...that's what trauma does. It applies the right fix to the wrong problems.


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I have a personal story about the positive aspect of vulnerability:  To mitigate my trauma's fear that I'm writing too much about myself on your forum, I've turned my personal story blue. Rather than me going away feeling afraid I should delete this post, I'll let the blue color of the story give you the option to read or not read it. That makes my trauma brain feel safer about my long post.

In 2010, on the two-year anniversary of my little sister's suicide, while being the new "youngest sibling" I was now the target of my elder narcissistic siblings' hate. The confusion was too much for me. I was about 15 minutes from jumping off a bridge near my house when the phone rang, and a very panicked lifelong friend had somehow detected through the ether that I was in serious trouble. When I answered the phone, she didn't say "hello" she yelled, "JIMMY, WHAT'S WRONG?" This was further proof for me that we humans are connected in ways we can't fully understand. Her call, from 2000 miles away, saved my life at the last second, and science can't explain why she knew to call me as I was grabbing the car keys to drive to the bridge.

   That was too close a call. The incident proved to me, beyond doubt, that my life depended on stopping the abuse completely. I was 50 at the time and two elder sibs and my own dad were still abusive to me. Since the ringleader (the Putin of my family) was a narcissistic sister 11 years older than me, she had the entire family in the palm of her hand, and they were all using it to slap at ME with. I had to walk away from my entire Family Of Origin (FOO) and to go FULL No Contact for the rest of my life. As soon as I changed all my phone numbers and email addresses and walked away from my 3 remaining siblings and my dad, and all my aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces and nephews, a never-before feeling of sweet freedom washed over me.

    I suddenly felt compelled to write a tell-all fiction novel about a boy who'd suffered everything I did. At the time, I worked at one of the world's largest companies and I had many, many friends who all knew me as a happy, kind, comical, compassionate person. (A perfect example of a C-PTSD Fawn type). The excitement of writing a novel made me talk about it. People would ask "What's it about?" And I'd tell them it was about a boy who'd been abused sexually, emotionally, spiritually and physically as I had, and who was so suicidal that he needed help getting through life--just like me.

    My friends, many of whom had known me for decades (I worked there for 42 years--but never told anyone the stories of my childhood or my evil FOO), said "I NEVER would have expected to hear that from you. You're the happiest person I know!" Then--and this is the whole reason I'm telling this story--THEN, many of them leaned in close and with sincere, often pained look on their faces asked, "Can I tell you what happened to me?" I'd say yes, and they'd start, "I've never told anyone this before but..." And then they'd tell me horrific stories of the pain they've lived with their whole lives.  Needless to say, that moment often deepened our friendship for a long while since.

My point for telling you this story is that I made a profound discovery back then: A lot of people want to share their darkest secrets but have been conditioned to believe they have to "suck it up" and get on with life. What I saw in the flushed, vulnerable faces of so many of my friends was a release like they had never really known before. When they discovered that this happy, cheerful, got-the-world-by-the-tail person they thought they knew had been fighting for my life since childhood, it gave them permission to tell that they were feeling the same way.

Realizing how much pain is really in this world led me to start saying, "There are more novels walking the sidewalks than there are on the bookstore shelves."

To me, that showed that vulnerability, when handled in the right way, is contagious, and it frees people to open up their hearts just enough to start letting people into the secrets that have been eating them up inside for years. It turns out that a HUGE lot of people are living in imposter syndrome, pretending to be in charge of their lives while feeling utterly alone and disconnected like they're the only person alive who feels how they feel.

I guess I've lived with bad imposter syndrome for my whole life. I felt like I was the garbage that was too dirty even for the trash man to pick up, but I acted like I had the world by the tail. I told jokes. I helped people move. I never asked anyone for help with anything, but I was right there always helping them with everything. I held a big, global job, I performed standup comedy in the evenings, I taught classes to aerospace engineers, I took care of my wife's aging mom for 14 years, I held big neighborhood parties for every holiday, I was the dad of the neighborhood's kid-friendly house. All the neighborhood kids hung around my house with my kids, because we were fun and kind and treated the children like they were valued human beings with real feelings and fears. All the while I was chronically plagued with recurring nightmares so bad that on some nights I got no sleep at all. I lived every day so close to ending my own life that I have to keep a no guns policy in my home for no other reason than that I'm too afraid of having an easy solution to a bad day right at my fingertips. When I was a kid, there was a song on the radio that sang "Good time Charlie's got the blues" and I always resonated with those words. Back then I didn't realize the seriousness of the fact that I felt like I was "good time Charlie" who was hiding my dark depression behind a big, happy smile. But as I aged, and the world began to understand trauma, well...I now know why I used to hum that song a lot as a kid.

I guess I learned, as many of us do, that people only want me around if I'm happy, so as a small boy, living with suicidal ideation from age 12 on, I learned to be happy when I was near other people. It made people not push me away.


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I'm sorry that I tend to write long posts, but I've tried many times to shorten them, but for me, sharing my own stories with others who can resonate with me, has proven to be the best way I have to connect. I'm not a therapist by any stretch, but I do have stories of my own that might help others feel safer with their own stories. I learn from other people's stories as well. My deep sadness is most often deep loneliness. Nothing stops loneliness quicker than sharing with others.

I believe we are all connected, and that through that connection, our lives are shared with each other, and if we choose to share in a spirit of love and connection, then those stories do good out in the world. I want healing to be as contagious as trauma is. People's traumas traumatize others, but people's compassion and vulnerability help talk over that trauma voice.

Normally, I'd delete this post before you can read it because this post is long and talks about myself. But I'm trying very hard to not let my trauma voice stop me from sharing.

And I'm now a new fan of a comedian who just posted a very powerful 1-hour routine--all about himself--on Netflix. To me, his routine is a groundbreaking boost to our healing both as a culture and as individuals with trauma disorders and perpetual sadness. His final dialogue at the end, where he says he can't be kind to himself no matter how hard he wants to, is so powerful. The show is called Neal Brennan: Blocks. He is one of us. A C-PTSD survivor whose new Netflix routine is all about him telling the world about his own problems with sadness, depression and self-hatred. I predict his routine will save thousands of people who need to hear a successful comedian tell us what it feels like for him to have C-PTSD. That sort of makes me feel better about the stories I tell about myself. So I'm going to force myself to post this and to not crumble under the anxiety that I'm no doubt going to feel as soon as I hit the "post" button. I don't talk about myself out of arrogance, but out of compassion, hoping to connect my ups and downs with others. For this post, I'm following Neal Brennan's lead and I'm going to let it all out.

So I talk about myself, but in ways that I hope resonate with you and any others. I hope that my vulnerability is contagious and gives some peace to the fears of opening up. No one on this site will think of you as a burden. We like reading each other's stories. I like reading the stories others write about their experiences, and I hope people are okay with reading mine also.

(And now for the test: I'll hit POST and see if I go into a panic and come back online to delete this before anyone sees it. If you're reading it...then I guess I've staved off the anxiety and didn't delete it).

I'm glad you are aiming to put words with your experience.

Dear Papa Coco,
I cannot thank you enough for your most wonderful reply. Every single word that you have written resonated with me and I felt deeply touched by everything you said.
I haven't been able to cry ever since the day it all happened but as I read your story I was finally able to grieve and release some of the pain that I have been stuck in for the last few weeks, so I am incredibly grateful for your kindness. It feels so good to have someone who understands what I am going through and who is brave enough to share their story with me. All my life I have been longing for someone to understand but whenever I tried to share my feelings with others, it went horribly wrong.

My friends seem to be unable to fully comprehend how tiring and exhausting it is to live with CPTSD and fight for your life every single day and whenever I tried to talk to my parents about any kind of problem I have been experiencing there has been absolutely no compassion, just blame and frantic worry. To my parents I am just some kind of pathetic, dysfunctional little girl that constantly causes them to worry because I cannot seem to function like normal people can. They don't recognise that it is their emotional and physical abuse that made me who I am today and so they continue to shame me into believing that I must be a horrible person that has no value in this world.

I am trying very much to get rid of all the toxic shame I have internalized from years of childhood abuse, but I can't say that I am making very much progress. I still feel like I deserve no support from others, that I don't really deserve to be vulnerable and share my story because I would just be a burden to others. And most of the time I still feel like I don't belong in this world because I am so different from others and simply cannot connect with anyone.

But, you know, hearing your story has made me actually feel connected for the first time in what must be years. It felt so good to have someone who understands and I fully appreciate your vulnerability. It helped me realise that sharing our stories and being open about our experience, is not only brave, it may be what the world actually needs.

What you said about talking over that trauma voice really moved me deeply.

QuoteI believe we are all connected, and that through that connection, our lives are shared with each other, and if we choose to share in a spirit of love and connection, then those stories do good out in the world. I want healing to be as contagious as trauma is. People's traumas traumatize others, but people's compassion and vulnerability help talk over that trauma voice.

So, I am trying to continue to share my thoughts on here (even though, like you, I am finding it quite scary and am tempted to just delete my posts) but I realise that healing can only happen when we are starting to share with others and take the necessary steps to end our loneliness.

Thank you also for the recommendation of Neal Brennan, it sounds very promising, so I'll see whether I can somehow access this over here in the UK.

I also wanted to say sorry about triggering you when talking about the topic of suicide, I should have put a trigger warning here or used different colours the way you did.
I hope you are okay.
Take care!

Milkandhoney11,

I want to complement you on your choice of names. My guess is that you, like me, hope to one day live in the land flowing with milk and honey. And the number 11 is a spiritual number. (My wife's dad was a very good friend to me and my whole family. He died of a heart attack almost 23 years ago. His funeral was on 1/11/00 at 11:00 AM. Here at our house, when the numbers 11 or 111 come up, we take notice, because strange and helpful things tend to happen around those numbers. We've decided to go ahead and just believe that it's Dad taking good care of us from his place in The Land of Milk and Honey. So...I'm going out on a limb and guessing you might have some of the same beliefs and spiritual connections that we do here in our home. Summary: Even if I'm totally wrong, I still like your choice of badges. (I'll close this post at the bottom of the page with a short story I've learned about The Land of Milk and Honey).



Thank you for your kind words around my long post. I confess, I had a hard time sleeping after posting it because I was so afraid that I'd said too much, used too many words, or sounded like a selfish know-it-all.  Your kind comments have given me full relief that I'm not in trouble now. THANK YOU!

I know this:  That my real self and my trauma self are two totally different people. So, lately I've been relying on my "real" self to override the reactions of my Trauma Self.  Whenever I forget this, and start behaving like my trauma self is real, my therapist puts up both hands like he's trying to stop my train of thought. He looks me in the eye, and very slowly says "That's TRAUMA!"  He reminds me often that my fears are my trauma talking.

So, last night as I squirmed in bed, worrying that I was going to be kicked out of the OOTS forum for being too selfish and too wordy, I said to myself "That's TRAUMA!" The more often I catch myself in the act of believing my trauma is a valid voice, the more easily I'm finding it to separate my "real" self from the trauma voice, and muscle my way through the night without succumbing to the trauma and deleting the post before it can be read by anyone. It's my way of practicing courage: Which is, as we know, NOT the act of being fearless, but it's the act of moving ahead in the presence of fear. I called on my courage to make me not delete that post no matter how loud my Trauma Voice was shouting at me to do so.

So, I want to address your fears too. I hope I'm able to help you see, through my eyes, that you are feeling trauma fears that aren't really real. I'm NOT scolding you, nor am I telling you to stop doing that. I'm only trying to share what my therapist does for me. Picture me right now, with both my hands up to indicate a caring pause in our conversation, and lovingly saying to you, "Your worries of saying too much on this forum is TRAUMA!" (Say the word "trauma" slowly for emphasis like my T does. It helps add drama to the trauma. LOL).

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Boy, can I resonate with what you said about trying to talk to your family about what you go through. That NEVER went well for me either. And, just like you, I always left their presence feeling like a horrible person who is just not capable of living life as a competent adult.

As a child, if I tried to ask for help, they just told me to shut up and keep my little "boy" problems to myself.  (Boy problems like being sexually, emotionally, spiritually and physically abused at the Catholic school that they refused to let me leave). As an adult, trying to come to grips with how disastrous my young adult life was turning out to be, their response to ANYTHING I said about the pain I carried from childhood was the same. "Hey. We did the best we could!" They didn't say it nicely either. They said it defensively. I wasn't trying to blame them; I was trying to explain why I was suicidal and depressed and on medications and in therapy. Their response was always to just protect themselves from feeling any responsibility for what I'd been through. Their self-protective blocking just made me feel like I was a huge disappointment who didn't respect how "hard they tried" to be good parents while they totally ignored me and laughed at me and told me to shape up and get on with life.

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I also resonate closely with your reports of how exhausting it is to spend every single day just making sure you survive. It's exhausting for me too. Sometimes I just want to throw my arms up and give in. That comedian I talk about, Neal Brennan, says having chronic sadness is like wearing a heavy, weighted vest every day. He says the "cures" like medication, Ketamine, Talk Therapy, etc, don't remove the vest, but they do take a couple pounds out of it.

More and more, I'm starting to realize that my healing from this lifelong confusion is going to be about me accepting it while also working to heal it. My therapist always tells me to "make space" in my brain and heart for my problems, rather than try to hide from them, or curse them, or tell them to go away. Every emotion I have is on my side. I just need to listen to it and let it tell me why. I feel bad that I have so much hatred for rapists, bullies, billionaires, politicians, thieves, and my own narcissistic family. My T repeatedly tells me that it's okay to feel the hate. Make a space for it and allow it to sit at the table with me. I find that when I do that, I start to soften and my hatred starts to wane away. It reminds me of this new philosophy about physical healing. It's said now that "No pain, no gain" is a load of hooey.  That the human body will change and heal faster if it doesn't have to protect itself from my forcing it to move or bend. The body responds to pain by building more scar tissue or by resisting the movement against me.  Apparently, my body wants me to love it, so it doesn't feel loved when it's being tortured by "no pain/no gain" hooey. Physical therapists who know this are better at healing their clients than PTs who continue to believe in the old, antiquated no pain/no gain garbage.

I relate that to my brain now. My therapist knows I don't have a violent bone in my body, so he knows that when he tells me to make space for the hatred, I'm not going to grab a bat and start smashing windshields. He knows I'm going to go into meditation and allow my hatred for chrump and Bezos and Musk and all the sociopaths and rapists of the world to have its say.  Once I accept that it's a valid part of me, and that it's trying to show that it's on my side, my hatred starts to cool down.


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I also resonate with your comment:  "I still feel like I deserve no support from others, that I don't really deserve to be vulnerable and share my story because I would just be a burden to others. And most of the time I still feel like I don't belong in this world because I am so different from others and simply cannot connect with anyone."

Wow. It's like we're living our lives in tandem from 6000 miles apart. I'm not suffering with that quite as badly as I used to. But on some days, I absolutely still feel totally unwelcome on this planet. In fact, look at my comments above that I couldn't sleep because I wrote something to you that I believed was going to get me thrown off the site for being too wordy and too selfish. "That's TRAUMA" (LOL. My T is with me in spirit right now).

No part of me believes you will ever be a burden on this site.  But...dang it...I still resonate with you. I get it, I get it, I TOTALLY get it.  In fact,  I just recently told my therapist of 30+ years, that I only trust him because I pay him. I told him that if he was working for free I'd leave because he doesn't deserve to have me be a burden on him. But since I'm paying him, I feel like I have the right to talk to him for 45 minutes every two weeks. He is often encouraging me to call him at home if I ever need him. He sometimes even indicates that he's sorry I didn't call him when he finds out how difficult a time I'd had during the time between sessions. But I can't call him. I can't ask him to help me if I'm not paying him. That's TRAUMA but it's still too strong a Trauma Voice for me to get past.

Here on this forum, I've deleted so many posts before anyone could read them that I wonder if there are as many non-posts as posts in my history. All because I feel exactly like how you expressed how you feel. I am just sure I'm RIGHT on the cusp of being cancelled by the good, loving, caring people on this forum. It's not about the people on the forum, it's about TRAUMA.  And I personally believe that it's trauma that's making you feel the same way.

I'm not telling you to get over it. I'd have to find a way to get over it myself first, and I really can't get over it. I am slllloooooowwwwwllllyyyyy getting more and more control over the Trauma voice, but I'm a long, long way from being over it. I'm more like you than you can imagine.  I'm scared all the time. I'm sad all the time. Trauma voices are pounding on me all the time, but venues like this forum are helping me find a place where I can practice sharing without deleting.

I think of CPTSD as the loss of a limb. It's easy for me because my dad lost his right arm in WWII and I grew up with a man who had found a way to live a full and competent life with his right arm gone. (And he was right-handed, so it was extra difficult for him). Being traumatized to the point that you and I have been, is like having a limb removed. People with missing limbs can never grow the limb back, any easier than I can grow my self-confidence back.  But, at the same time, People with missing limbs just have to find new ways to accomplish what they do. My dad built houses, rebuilt transmissions and engines, worked in a factory and built a reputation as "the strongest man anyone had ever seen" in the factory. I worked in that same factory and was routinely told story after story of Dad's unbelievable strength. Many times, I heard "Your dad can lift more with that one arm than two men can with both arms."

My goal in healing from Trauma disorders is not to live my life as though it never happened, but to learn how to live my life anyway. To mitigate the things that I can and can't do. I know I can't be a landlord, so I don't rent out my house. I know I can't handle other people's pain, so I don't finish my degree and become a therapist. Maybe I'd be a good therapist. But I'd cry myself to sleep every night like I did when I was a hospital volunteer 30 years ago. I am learning what I can and can't do, and I believe that if I just keep following the new and progressive treatments that keep coming online, I'll be able to make it to the finish line and die of old age in my 80s or 90s. That's my goal. To THRIVE with the CPTSD still there. Getting rid of it doesn't seem to be an option but thriving despite its presence is a very real option.

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Hey: I'm starting to get very confused. I think I've written too much and my brain can't handle it. I'm going to log off now. But first, I promised a story around The Land of Milk and Honey.

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I recently learned about Chimpanzees and Bonobos. I'd never heard of Bonobos before last week. ACCORDING TO THE SOURCE that I was watching, they look so much alike that untrained eyes can't tell them apart. Their differences are mostly behavioral, rather than physical.

I was researching "why people hate" and came across this: 2,000,000 years ago, these apes needed to relocate. Archeologists believe that the species divided in half and went two directions. The one that we call Chimpanzees moved to a place where they found food and resources, but not in ample supply. Because they had to compete for food and resources, they evolved into a male-dominated social structure that included violence, competition, even rape and murder. It's said that when a male chimpanzee enters a new pack, his first action is to murder all the babies, so he can repopulate with his own babies.

Meanwhile, the other half found a place teeming with abundant food and resources. They evolved into a female-dominated social structure built on sharing and nurturing and peace.

This documentary (Actually called "Why We Hate") assessed that the need to compete for survival drives competitive violence, which burrows into the brain and causes these selfish, possessive, violent acts of aggression on fellow chimpanzees.  And that the total lack of need to compete, gave the Bonobos the ability to share and care and be good.

Okay, so...as a FORMER Catholic, I'm all too familiar with the religious promise that one day we'll live in The Land Flowing with Milk and Honey. Maybe it is the original author's promise that one day, maybe in 2,000,000 more years, we humans might find total peace because of an abundance of all the resources that we need. Or maybe this is about eternity and a life after death. (I don't know what I believe: I DO believe our souls continue to live when our egos die, but I really am not certain of it).

I don't believe in the Catholic cartoon version of heaven and heII but I do hold a space in my heart to believe that maybe, one day, as we continue to evolved from cave dwellers to space dwellers, (or as my therapist says, from ego centric lives to spirit centric lives) that one day, in our future, we will find the Land of Milk and Honey and we'll never have to deal with violence or hatred or selfishness (or the 7 deadly sins) ever again.

Hey. It could happen. And I'm hoping for that day when violence dies off because no one needs to compete for jobs, money, housing, food...anything.   ANd if I"m totally wrong, who cares? The idea of evolving into social peace makes me feel good, so...no harm, no foul.

Take care my friend. And thank you for sharing yourself with us.  :)

:hug:

Papa Coco,
I want to thank you so much for your words. Once again everything you have said resonated with me- maybe you're right and we really are living our lives in tandem from 6000 miles apart. It's a wonderful thought and makes me feel much less alone.

The truth is that I was struggling a lot yesterday. Somehow the reality of all the negative things that happened during the past few weeks suddenly dawned on me and I found it very hard not to crumble under the pain. I never wanted to admit to myself how much I am struggling with being unemployed, but it really is starting to affect me at the moment and I guess it has a lot to do with feeling like a burden to others. I have always found it quite impossible to see any value in myself unless I was actively doing something to be of service to others. It's like my self-worth depends solely on what others think of me, so unless I am making a positive contribution to the community in some way I feel like my existence is worth nothing.

Part of my obviously knows that that is not true and that every single person in this world is valuable, but it's hard to listen to this part of myself when my TRAUMA voice is shouting so loudly. Sometimes I get completely trapped into my traumatic thinking and start to feel like giving up because I can't see a light beyond the horizon anymore. But your words reminded me that it is indeed possible to separate my true self from my trauma self and that all the fears that have been clouding my mind lately aren't actually real. So thank you incredibly much for this. I really needed to hear those words right now.

I do feel that suffering from CPTSD is a bit like losing a limb. There is no denying that it has severely narrowed my life chances. There are so many things that I struggle with although they come easy to the vast majority of people. I'm scared of social interactions, I'm finding myself unable to maintain any kind of friendship, I've never been in a relationship with another person, and sometimes my anxiety is so overwhelming that I can't even manage to leave the house.

I suffer every day from my limitations and I am afraid that I will never be able to fully recover from them - just like one can't regrow a limb one can never replace a lost childhood and so it seems like the trauma will always have to remain a part of me. Yet, you're absolutely right: we can grow our self-confidence back and we can find ways to slowly and gradually reduce the incredible burden that we are carrying.

However, one of the things that really troubles me at the moment, is how often people like us get being judged for being the way that we are. Our lives may be severely limited and our CPTSD may very much function like a disability, but people cannot see how much we suffer because we are not missing a limb and seem outwardly okay.

I can't count how often I have been called naïve, immature, overly sensitive, fragile, dysfunctional, pathetic, worrisome, or useless by other people. I have heard it numerous times as a child from parents, family members, classmates, and teachers. And I still continue to hear it now that I am an adult. So is it any wonder that I have started to believe these comments? When you hear them again and again over many, many years it is impossible not to absorb them in a way. Here I am, then, a grown woman who is still not able to function like a normal grown up person because I'm so paralysed with self-doubt, anxiety, and depression. Every single day that I have lived so far seems to prove that I am somehow less worthy and less good than anyone else in the world.

And that, of course, keeps my TRAUMA self nourished. It's like a perpetual cycle that can never stop. I get so caught up in trauma, self-doubt and fear that I end up either making mistakes or completely withdrawing from the world around me, but of course this causes my inner critic to lash out even more and tell me about all the ways how I am a burden to others.

So, is there any way out of this situation? From where I am right now, it almost seems like my pain can and will never end. But your words make me believe that there is hope. There is hope because there are people who understand and who will support you, people who do not succumb to aggression and judgement but hold onto "the ability to share and care and be good", as you said.

I truly believe that we can reach a state that would feel very much feel like being in the land flowing with milk and honey. I certainly long for the peace it would entail and I hope that some day you and I will be able to move beyond all the hurt and violence that has governed our lives so far.

I, too, have experienced many such spiritual "coincidences" as the ones you have described at the beginning of your post and they do give me hope that the relief that we long for is indeed possible.

So, thanks again for reminding me of my hopes and helping me see a way out of the pain that I am experiencing at this moment in time. It really means a lot to me.

Take care

MilkandHoney11

You're in a tough spot and I respect that. I hope that being able to talk about being unemployed here on the forum is a help to you as you work through the trauma of the situation. Losing a job is like losing an identity. I lost my job 2 years ago tomorrow and I'm just now starting to come to terms with it. Being unemployed is a horrible feeling for anyone. Add C-PTSD to that and it's ten times more of an impact to your already struggling self-image. I can relate to the feelings of worthlessness. I tend to tell people I'm retired because that carries less of a feeling of shame than "laid off." Being unemployed is a problem for anyone but it's a torture chamber for people like you and me who need to keep our self-esteem up via outside sources. Add to that the black and white feeling that we are either contributors or burdens. Nothing in between.

A big, key, fundamental symptom of C-PTSD is black and white thinking. C-PTSD is a fragmentation of the brain. What should be a nice, warm cup of life, is now a cup of scalding hot and a cup of ice-cold life. C-PTSD separates the hot from the cold and only allows us to see one or the other at any given moment. I'm either having the best day of my life or the worst. Nothing in between. I'm either a contributor or a burden. I'm either good or bad. I'm either too tall or too short...too fat or too thin...too happy or too sad... The ultimate goal of good trauma therapy is to re-integrate all our fragmented, black or white parts back into one nice gray whole. That's when we start to feel a sense of ourselves without our trauma voices yelling at us to get out of the ice and into the fire or vice versa. In my humble opinion, what you're going through, by feeling ashamed of being a burden, is what C-PTSD has done to you. I suppose feeling a drive to want to contribute is a good thing. It may be the proof you need that you were born good. But we don't need our trauma voices pounding on us all day long until we find another job. It's fun to contribute from a pure heart. It's a burden to contribute because I feel like I HAVE to.

You say you know you're not a burden but your trauma voice is screaming that you are one. I know that doesn't solve anything, but I would bet you're definitely in better shape than if you were thinking that your trauma voice was the only truth. It's not. My anxiety rises up when it tries to fix something it's afraid will happen again. My anxiety still remembers being shamed for not being valuable in the past. It thinks it's helping me by making me so anxious that I'll go out and get a job before I'm punished for not having one. From what I've learned in a lot of books and websites and from my therapist, it seems that our trauma voices are trying to fix yesterday's problems today. Right fix: Wrong problem. As we continue up the road to healing, I suppose the more we can blend the good with the bad, the more we can let our rational voice talk louder than our trauma voices.



I can really empathize with you on how hard it is to be called "Too emotional" and "weak" and "Dysfunctional" and "worthless". I've endured the same names and as a man, you can add "soft" or "sissy" to that list. While I'm comfortable in my sexuality, being a "soft" man is appreciated by many and laughed at by many others. But...there we go. I've been dealing with it my whole life. I don't hide my soft side well, so I've been targeted many, many times for being too emotional.

Again: None of it is real. Being called these names is how bullies put us good people in our place. Again, if there's a heII it's not for us emotional people, it's for the bullies who use that to make us feel bad for being good.

Being a target for these kinds of labels is probably the biggest reason I isolate. A million insults about how I walk or how I talk or how I hit a nail or how I cut the lawn or how I wash my car have driven me into a life where I try hard to close myself off where no one can criticize me; or my voice, or how I sit, or what I eat for lunch...My GOSH, no matter what I did as a kid in my own family, I was criticized for it. I combed my hair left, and my family said I should comb it right. Today I work in my garage, but I keep the door closed so no one from the street can see me. I'm too conditioned to be waiting for them to criticize how I do my work, or how I've organized my tools, or the shirt I'm wearing today. No one does this to me anymore, but the roots of my raising run deep. I am what they made me into.









It's such a treadmill to nowhere. But knowing it's a treadmill and getting off the treadmill are two different things.  I could save a million babies from a burning building and feel like the greatest hero in the world. Then go to bed, wake up the next day feeling utterly worthless again. It's not about being worthless. It's about feeling worthless. For me, that's my trauma talking.

My therapist often lists some of my life's accomplishments when I'm feeling at my worst. He has to remind me that I've done good things because I can't remember having ever done anything good in my whole life. When I got laid off after 42 years with my employer, I lost so much of my identity that it drove me deeper into depression than I've ever been. I've been slowly rising up from that depression for two years now. I've still got a long way to go. Not contributing to the world via a job or volunteer post does make my trauma self feel very uneasy.

What bothers me about worthlessness is that it shouldn't matter. Millionaires and billionaires feel just fine about themselves and all they do is take. They don't give anything. Their self-esteem is in great shape.

I see myself the way I see a broken horse. Wild horses run free on the planes. I don't see where they contribute anything at all to the world. They just run, and play, and eat, and survive. But when one of them is captured by a rancher or farmer, the first order of business is for the farmer to break the horse's spirit. By a series of restraints, rewards and punishments, the farmer works to prove that the farmer is the boss and the horse will never be free again. Eventually that horse's spirit breaks, and it succumbs to a life of servitude. That's what the church and narcissistic family did to me. They broke my free spirit SO THAT I would feel bad if I wasn't doing something for them. Was the horse of no value when it ran free and ate grass? Can that free horse feel good about itself even though it's not pulling a plow?

The breaking of my spirit was done by being in a family where I was ignored if I didn't "behave" how they wanted me to. I was given tighter boundaries than all of my friends. All of my siblings were given more opportunities in life than I was. I was allowed in my friends' houses but none of my friends were allowed in my house. Mom hated every friend I'd ever made, boy or girl. She hated any teacher I said I liked. No matter what I liked or wanted, I was repeatedly shown that I was wrong for liking or wanting it. My best friend's mom was the only adult who ever talked with me like I was a person, rather than a child who should be seen and not heard. My mom knew that I really liked Mrs. A. I was 13 when she died of cancer. I remember it well. It was a summer day, no school. My mom came into my room to wake me up. As she crossed the room to open the curtains, she scolded me: "Just so you know. Mrs. A died this morning AND YOU'D BETTER NOT CRY ABOUT IT!!!!!" (I did cry about it, but not until I was 36 and it all came back to me as a flashback). In my home and religious school, I wasn't allowed to do or have anything that I wanted. If I asked for anything, they'd say "You don't want that" before I could even finish asking. It was subtle, but it was a relentless and consistent chipping away at my sense of self-worth.  My parents made sure that in my social structure of the neighborhood, I would be the kid with the oldest bike, the cheapest clothes, the tightest curfews, the least amount of freedom to go places or play sports or music or...etc. etc. My parents had money, but that money was theirs, not mine. I still played as hard as I was allowed to, but the message: "You're not as important as everyone else" was driven into me relentlessly for most of my life. Like they say, I wasn't cut with one big knife. I'm the result of a million small cuts. Gaslighted into accepting my position as everyone else's servant.

I need to log off. A friend needs help moving some furniture and I've got a lot of cleaning and packing to do so I can move back into the city on Saturday morning. (Ha ha. How ironic is that?: I have to stop talking about how I am everyone's servant because a friend needs me to move some furniture for her).  It's okay. I like this friend. I'm happy to do this for her.

I'll check back in as soon as I get a few minutes.

Dear Papa Coco,
thank you so much for your encouraging words and most valuable insights.

I think you are absolutely right about being stuck in black and white thinking and not being able to see any grey shades, anymore. I can always see the good in other people, but when it comes to finding the good in myself I often fail and I know that I work on that. I have made some mistakes in life that I deeply regret but that does not mean that I am an inherently bad person who deserves to suffer like this. And you're absolutely right: the fact that I am currently not working or contributing much does not diminish my worth in any way. Your example of the wild and tamed horses really helped me see that, so thank you very much for all your advice.

I am trying to see myself in a better light and to contradict my trauma voice whenever I can, but I think it will take quite some time for me to start and develop some kind of immunity against inner critic attacks. I have only learned about Complex PTSD very recently and I am finding everything still quite overwhelming, to say the least. So far, I have always tried to minimise the effects that my childhood trauma has had on me but I can't keep suppressing my hurt, anymore. I have to really accept everything that happened to me if I want to find a way to heal so I am slowly and gradually starting to do that.

I was really sorry to hear about your childhood experiences. It must have felt awful to not be given the freedoms you desperately wanted, especially since everyone around you had so much fewer boundaries. Being "the kid with the oldest bike, the cheapest clothes, the tightest curfews, the least amount of freedom to go places or play sports etc" definitely resonated with me. I think that in a way my mother just tried to protect me, but the truth is that she was overly sensitive and her constant worrying was a huge burden for me. Whenever I tried to talk to her about a problem I had, she was completely unable to hold the space for me or show much empathy, she just panicked and started rambling on and on about how terrible this situation was, which scared me a lot. She never believed in me for a second but constantly told me that I was her greatest worry because I seemed to be unable to function in this world. I guess that I was a very timid and emotional child and my parents could never quite accept me for the person I was. Instead of supporting me, they made me feel dysfunctional and worthless every single day of my life and I realise that I must have internalised a lot of their criticisms over the time.

I am not worthless or dysfunctional but they made me believe so and it's about time that I start de-installing this program of self-hatred that is constantly running in my head. My parents may have broken my spirit, but I can't let them win. They may never had believed in me but that doesn't have to mean that I can't be there for myself.

So, at the moment I am trying to heavily reduce the contact with my parents. I just don't want to deal with their constant criticisms and humiliating comments, anymore. It's hard because they're the only two people in my family that I have any contact with, but at the same time I have to accept that their overwhelming presence in my life is stopping me from healing and recognising my self-worth.

At least here in this forum I can find people who understand me and will never put me down the way they do, so thank you again for all your most wonderful replies, my friend. They mean a lot to me

Milkandhoney11

I really empathize with what you're going through. I feel honored that you're allowing me to see glimpses into your life. To me, that feels like you trust me, and trust is one of those things I didn't get during my development years. No one believed me, nor trusted me enough to talk WITH me rather than AT me.

Recovery may be a lifetime journey, since we can't erase our pasts. But that's okay. There aren't many people on this planet who are without struggles. This just happens to be OUR struggle. So, even people without CPTSD have problems. That knowledge helps comfort me during my slow recovery journey. I know that almost everyone I meet is hiding a story of the pain and misery they've been through or are going through now. So, I don't feel so targeted. I'm learning how to handle my own issues, and that's a win. The journey is as slow or fast as my brain can handle. I don't measure my healing in days but in years. As I bounce up and down in moods and fears, I can usually see that I'm a better person today than I was one year ago today.

What we go through as we learn about our own lives is a monumental journey, I guess.  Recovery is a process that moves slowly as we accept the truth about ourselves in smaller, more digestible bites.


Complex-PTSD is called Complex because the cause was complicated, the symptoms are complicated, and the cure is complicated.

Normal PTSD is just as crippling to its host, but it has a simpler cause and a simpler-to-understand set of symptoms. A person is having a great life: They are in a bad car crash. They get PTSD. Today, they suffer with trauma responses just like you and I do, but they know why. They know who they were before the crash. They know the date and time of the crash. They know who they are now, so they know how the crash changed them. Today they know why they have Emotional Flashbacks (EFs). They know what triggers those EFs; Screeching tires, horns blaring, excessive speed, the sound of metal hitting metal and glass breaking. These are easy triggers to identify. So they know why they react as they do. I have a friend whose mom, as a teenager, was in a horrific car crash. I've tried driving this woman around town, but no matter how slowly I drive, she keeps begging me to slow down even more. She knows why she's like that.

Complex-PTSD didn't have a single car crash. In most cases, the abuse started at birth. So we didn't know who we were before the trauma. We didn't know we were being traumatized. We don't really know for sure what caused us to be who we are now, we don't understand what our triggers are, and we don't know why we behave as we do when we're triggered. Having no pre-PTSD life to compare to, we can't easily separate our real selves from our trauma selves.  A soldier knows how the trauma of war changed him/her. So he/she knows why they're triggered, and what part of their reaction is trauma. We don't. In most cases, we just believe we were born broken and somehow deserve to be without self-esteem. We struggle to know what part of us is trauma and what part is just who we would have been without the trauma.  To sum it up in a sentence: We didn't know we were broken. We thought we were just born this way.

The cure for Complex-PTSD is somewhat similar to the cure for PTSD. Same tools. But one of our biggest, additional hurdles is that a victim of a car crash or war battle gets respect for being traumatized. The rest of us have to walk around in a world that thinks we're making this up. We can't always prove--even to ourselves--that we were ever abused. We have to add a little extra shame into our heavy backpacks as we hike up the trail of recovery behind our PTSD cohorts.

For me, I had a hurdle to overcome when I was first diagnosed in 2005. Complex PTSD wasn't a thing then. I had to try and figure out why I had all the symptoms of PTSD without having ever been to war. A startling reality that I had to accept and overcome was that I realized that, since I was so ashamed of myself for so many years, I realized I, myself, had joined the team of my abusers. They told me I was worthless and helpless. I eventually agreed with them, and I took their side. I called myself worthless and helpless just as they'd trained me to. My own version of Stockholm Syndrome. I sided with my own enemy against myself. Part of why Therapy takes so long is that it took me a few years to realize that I was resisting therapy because of my bias that I was incurable. The more I resisted, the longer the therapy needed to stay in play.

Now, with the world finally beginning to respect the covert control that causes Complex PTSD, I'm no longer on my abuser's side. I now see myself as a wild horse that was intentionally broken for the purpose of making me into who my parents and church wanted me to be, rather than who I really was.

To your post: I agree with you that limiting time with your parents is a good plan. I'm sorry that they can't accept that you are not their little pet daughter, but that you are a competent adult on your own journey. I let my family have me for far longer than I should have. I kept believing in the fantasy that family was more important than my happiness.  I wish I'd have put some distance between myself and them much sooner than I finally did.

In the 1970s there used to be a t-shirt that people wore that said, "It's hard to soar with eagles when you fly with turkeys". HA HA.  I'm not name-calling, but I'm saying that as an extroverted person who gets my strength from the world around me, one of my healing techniques is to try and always hang around with people who respect me, and just not hang around with those who enjoy jabbing at me with insults all the time.

Papa Coco,
thank you so much for your post. I've never thought about C-PTSD in this way, but the way you describe it makes a lot of sense and I feel that it allows me to have a little more self-compassion. I've always struggled to accept myself and was never able to seek help because I couldn't understand where my depression and anxiety came from. I was ashamed of myself for being so weak and constantly blamed myself for feeling so incredibly low when others have it so much worse (objectively speaking). I felt there must be something inherently wrong with me if I struggled so much and could never quite stay in control of my emotions, but I am beginning to see that this is not true.
I thought that I was born broken because I can't remember a time in my life when I felt happy, confident, or secure, but I think you're absolutely right in that we are just finding it very difficult to separate our real selves from our trauma because it took place so early in our childhood.
I don't have many memories of my actual childhood (I guess I must have suppressed much of it because it hurts so much) but the few memories I actually do have are all so invariably sad that it hurts to think back to them.
My parents actually created a lot of videotapes of me and my sister when we were young and in those videos you can see that our our childhood wasn't all bad, but when I look at these short video clips it feels like I am watching a different person because it doesn't really match my own memories.
I guess the truth is that my dad had two very different sides: the one that was a caring father who read to us and played ball with us in the garden, but also the one that was very violent and aggressive.
I'm still finding it hard to combine these two sides and try to see my father as he really is, so I guess to a young child it must be terribly confusing to deal with these two totally different versions. And I imagine that this is the reason why it took me so long to acknowledge that what was happening was actually abuse.

I think that I am going to need a therapist to try and process all of these things, but part of me is still resisting it (much like you said about the early stages of your own recovery journey).

Anyway, thank you again for all your insights and advice, I'm so grateful for all your posts and feel honoured that you are taking so much time to respond to my thoughts and feelings. It honestly means a lot

I resonate with having parents that presented conflicting sides and a mismatch between memories and memories depicted in media.  I hope you find ways to sort through.

Hi Milk and Honey. I'm reading and relating to what you are writing. I'm personally really grateful to be in therapy cause I never had help before that and started in my 40s. It is hard though to go through but you can go really really slow.

The mixed messages you got are really hard to manage and make sense of but so common among us. But just because it is a common experience among a group of traumatized people doesn't make it normal or ok or not that bad. It isn't ok that your dad abused you and it just makes it a bit worse that they would gaslight you by showing curated videos of them being "loving" parents.

I'm glad you have survived and made it here. Keep going!

Thank you, Armee, it's so good to hear that.
Sometimes I feel guilty because I think I am being ungrateful and judging my parents unfairly, but I cannot deny that their actions have been causing a lot of trauma in my life. From where I am standing right now, it is hard to see how much of an impact their physical and emotional abuse actually had and I am a little scared of all the things I might discover once I start therapy and EMDR etc. but I guess it's what I need to heal so I am trying to be brave

Hi Milk and Honey

I resonate with so much of what you have said. This minefield that is C-PTSD is tricky to navigate but there are so many good people here. We understand and believe. You are not a burden, you are valuable and what you have to say matters. How you feel, matters.
I feel so much guilt when I think about the impact my family has had on me but at the end of the day, they did have this effect and no one can take that away from me. Not even then. No one can tell you how bad your trauma was.

Like yourself I am not in therapy at the moment and am scared about what will be revealed to me when I do start and start the right type of therapy. I feel it in the pit of my stomach. I hope the forum gives you an outlet in the meantime. This is a safe place.

I am glad you decided to start a journal and I just want to say I am stood here with you as travel down this road to healing. You have a community here that welcomes you with open arms and loving support.

Thank you so much Master of My Sea,
I am incredibly grateful to have finally found some people who understand what I am going through and are willing to listen even in those moments when I am struggling. I'm relieved that I am not completely alone with my worries, anymore, and that I can always come to this forum for support if I need it.
There are so many things to figure out, so much healing to go through, and so many scary memories/ realities to face, but I feel a little bit safer now that I know that I don't have to do all of this on my own.
So, thank you for being there, I really appreciate it

It's a long and tricky journey we all have to go on, and each individual's adventure will be different, but it is a comfort to know we are here together. It's a feeling most of us have never felt. A true sense of community and belonging.
I'm glad it has made you feel a little safer and you really aren't ever alone. Not here anyway. We have all got each other, no hidden agendas. Everyone just wants to heal and help others along the way  :grouphug:

Thank you so much, Master of My Sea, knowing that you guys are all here makes it a lot easier for me to navigate each day. I have been feeling very low recently and really struggled to keep up the hope but at the same time I am grateful to finally have found support from people who understand what it is like to live with all this inner turmoil.
The past few weeks since "the incident" and losing my job have been awful but at least there is one good thing that has come out of it and I feel blessed that I have been able to meet kind, gentle, caring souls like you.
If I told anyone else about all the strange, sad thoughts clustering my mind they would probably say I was crazy and judge me as weak but even though all our journeys are different, I know that people here will understand and try to support the others as best as they can, and this honestly means so much.

I am very scared of the new week ahead and wished I didn't have to face it but at least I won't be alone and I know that I can get support on here if things are going wrong.
It's going to be my dad's birthday tomorrow and somehow that scares me more than I admit because I don't know how to deal with him, anymore. He can be a nice, funny, gentle person if he wants to but he can also be unbearable aggressive and narcissistic and I never know which version of him I am going to encounter, which makes me feel quite afraid. I have also uncovered so many dark memories during the past few weeks and am not sure whether I am ready to talk to him again after all that I have been through. But he and mom are the only family I have left and I don't really want to lose all contact with them, so I feel like I don't have another choice but to face him again tomorrow.

I am also feeling really worried about my job situation. I have three job interviews next week and I know I should be feeling happy and grateful because I have been so desperate to find a new job, but now that these opportunities have come up I feel an inexplicable fear that I can't quite cope with. I think that so much depends on these interviews and I am not sure whether I would be able to deal with yet another failure so I am starting to really dread the days to come. I've also spent so much time hidden away at home now unable to leave the house, that going on a job interview feels like an insurmountable challenge. Will I be ready when the time comes? After all the negative things that have happened in my last job I am not sure whether I am ready to start working again, even though part of me is desperately longing for some structure and meaning in my day to day life.

I don't know why all of this affects me so much but I just feel so overwhelmed and really want to cry. At least I hope that things will get a little clearer starting next week so I am trying to cling onto hope for the moment

Thank you all for being there

best to you as you go thru the week, M and H.  it can certainly be distressing to face uncertainty, whether it be in who is going to show up or what the future might hold, including job interviews.  i hope everything turns out ok for you.  sending love and a hug, if that's ok. :hug:

M&H

I'm so glad you found this forum when you did. Job interviews are stressful even for the least trauma-prone, so for folks like us, they're far more taxing. Especially, like you say, after being in the house for so long. I wish you the very best of luck next week.  Also, I'm happy to hear that you are ready to lean on your friends on the forum as you go through this. Job interviews are so stressful for anyone, but you have people here you can download your stress onto and we can jump in and lessen that stress by being genuinely supportive.

As far as your dad's birthday is concerned, I am impressed by your awareness that you choose to stay in his life but you know what he is.   There's a trick I learned from this forum called the "of course" method. It really looks like it can be helpful. Since you are going in with eyes wide open, and you know your dad is a narcissist, and you know what a narcissist is, you have the ability to predict what mean things he might say. So when you say "Hi Dad. I have a job interview tomorrow" you can predict that he'll say something judgy, like, "I hope you're not going to wear that!" And you can smile and say (quietly to yourself so you don't start a fight with him), "Of course that's what you'd say." It sort of takes the poison out of his comments and allows you to feel like you are more a match for him. Rather than feeling like you're his helpless, incompetent little girl, you can feel the truth that you're a competent, adult woman who can so clearly see his foolishness before he even pukes it out.

I always teach everyone around me the ways of the sociopath/narcissist. I say, "Stop calling them evil geniuses. They're selfish children." Their brains are 100,000 years in the past. Cave dwellers. They want. They want what you have. They'll do anything to take what you have, whether it's money or labor, or even if it's self-esteem. They want to make you feel less than them. They will say anything to make you feel bad. They have only one reason for doing it. It gives them jollies. (I say it more crudely in person: I say "it gives them a boner.") And like with eating a meal, brushing your teeth, or using the bathroom, doing it once isn't enough. You have to eat and use the bathroom every day. A narcissist needs to make others feel bad every day. Once they take what you have from you, they go to bed, wake up, and want what you have all over again. When narcissists insult you, you know "that's just what simple-brained, bratty child narcissists all do." Like when a 3-year-old says the world is a pizza, you just know, "that's what 3-year-olds say."

You are the good one here. You are the adult. Your dad is most likely frozen in time somewhere in childhood. (Example: I see trump as being a 3-year-old. Tantrums, false sense of grandiosity, never knows when to shut up, lies, no sense of connection to reality, favorite food is fast food hamburgers...exactly like a three-year-old).

I HOPE you have a day with "good Dad" tomorrow, but just in case "bad Dad" shows up instead, just remember...of course he would say whatever he's decided to jab at you with. Narcissists say narcissistic things. He's NO different than any other run-of-the-mill narcissist. They're all the same. They say the same things. Of course they do.

(PS: My angry, mean son was born on the 18th. He and your dad are Scorpios.  Pretty much all Scorpios I know have poisonous stingers just like scorpions. They're all very poison-toungued.)

Thank you so much, Papa Coco.
The "of course" method sounds wonderful and I am definitely going to sit down and think through which responses I am likely to hear from him. It still scares me but I know that I can get through it if I prepare myself and just remember that I am allowed to set boundaries and can stop the phone call at any time if I really need to.
It's a strange day today. I've had a very nice phone call from a former friend/mentor and she helped me see my situation in a bit more positive light and reminded me that I am still worthy despite all the mistakes I have made.
It's been wonderful to know that she still trusts and believes in me even though she knows about these mistakes, but at the same time it saddens me because I know how rare this acceptance is. I wished I could talk to my parents the same way as I talk to her and I wished they were able to show me even 1% of the unwavering belief and support she has given me, but I know that this is not going to happen.
I don't know, the past few weeks have made it painfully clear how little I can trust my parents and I am still struggling with this realisation, but I am also grateful that I have been able to meet all of you. Having all your support in my life is so much more worth than the strange, capricious relationship I have with my parents.
Last night as I was trying to sleep I had this thought that "my dad should never have been allowed to become a parent" and as soon as this crossed my mind my whole body contracted terribly. I could hardly breathe and started shaking a lot but somehow I managed to get through the pain. It was a very strange feeling and I have never experienced anything like this before, but it made me realise how much anger and fear I have stored in my body. Maybe this is why I am constantly tired but can never relax? And why it is impossible for me to sleep at night?
I think this is something I need to work with and I hope that I can find some healing by tuning more into the emotions that lie suppressed deep inside me, but at the same time I am also scared because there are so many painful things left to uncover and the prospect of it all seems overwhelming...

M&H, i think it's an enormous realization about holding so much fear and anger inside.  and it stands to reason you'd be afraid of letting it out due to the possibility of overwhelm.  a former member of this forum used to say 'breathe, just breathe', and i'd like to pass that along to you.  it's ok to take all you've gone thru in small bits and pieces to reduce the chance of overwhelm.  i've had to do that w/ my own recovery, and it's made healing feel a lot safer for me. 

the realization about not being able to trust your parents is a very big one. we've often said here that slower is faster when it comes to recovery.  little bit by little bit, rest, another little bit.  by the by, we're glad you're here, too.  love and hugs : :hug:

Sounds like you have a lot going on M&H. Sending you support and a huge 'You can do this' :)

I completely understand the feeling of leaving the house being an insurmountable task, especially when you have isolated for a while. I have to fully prepare myself to leave the house and it's often a process that takes days, sometimes weeks for me to build up to (this is usually if I have an appointment).
I have found that if I plan just a little each day in preparation, it helps calm the fear a little. One day I will look at travel options, if that's something that is required, but I might not actually set a travel time or mode of transport for a few days. I give myself time to process before I go back for a more in-depth look and make any solid plans. I slowly gather up whatever I need to take with me (it usually ends up in a little pile in my kitchen). Just little bits like this, spread out, helps to make me feel calmer and more in control of leaving my house. This is just something I now do to help me, it's part of a little ritual now, not even noticeable to anybody, it's just something I do. Maybe slowly planning and giving yourself time to process each step of what you are doing might help things seem a little less overwhelming.

Please don't feel bad or ungrateful for feeling the anxiety and stress that you do. Job interviews are stressful enough without having to deal with trauma symptoms at the same time. Be gentle to yourself, a lot has happened in a short space of time, and you are about to deal with another change (new job). It is perfectly ok and completely understandable that you are feeling the way you do.

Gentle hugs :hug: and here with you as you go through this

It can be really overwhelming to have those realizations and put words to them...things like your parents should not have been allowed to be parents. And then of course most of us couldn't express negative things toward our parents and so there's a backlash too, to thinking something so solid.

Just so you aren't too hard on yourself if you can't keep your interaction with your parents from affecting you...I never could even with my therapist coaching me and lots of work and effort and grounding...I would still react in panic and straight up trauma reactions no matter how hard I tried not to. I felt very defective that I couldn't succeed at that, which just added another layer of suffering.

Thank you all for your wonderful support, it really means a lot.
I think I need to vent a little because something happened and I don't quite know how to deal with it, so I hope by writing things down I might be able to untangle some of my emotions.
I won't be able to give you all the details because I would be risking too much, but I am just feeling so terribly alone and misjudged and feel I need to tell someone. Maybe you'll understand...
It's hard to explain all the implications, but the main thing is that I  have been starting a blog about some of my experiences with CPTSD and depression because I felt it was important to raise awareness and encourage others to seek help. Before I joined this forum I felt so incredibly isolated and forlorn, so I was hoping that someone might be able to find this blog and feel understood. I did not mention any names of other people nor did I make any accusations, but I did try and process some of the things that happened to me during the past few weeks.
So, now I have been contacted by my previous employer asking me to delete all that I have written because they believe that it is possible to make connections back to them. And I simply don't know how to deal with this.
On the one hand I feel quite angry that they are trying to take away my freedom of expression but on the other hand my trauma voice keeps shouting at me how terrible a person I am for doing all of this. I never wanted to cause any harm to anyone (hence why I did not mention any names) but of course now I feel immensely guilty all over again.
Why is it that every time I try to speak up about my mental health issues, everything goes terribly wrong and I just end up making everything worse? I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this.
And for me the worst thing is that there has been absolutely no understanding for my situation, no concern whatsoever about my wellbeing, only blame. It's as if they were kicking out at somebody who is already lying on the ground and I just can't understand why anyone would treat a person like this who has just disclosed that they are now suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts following all the physical and emotional abuse I experienced as a child.
So, here I am sitting and crying and wondering what to think, do, and feel. Is it okay for me to be upset about all of this or am I just being difficult again? I thought I was starting to feel a little bit better about myself but now that this has happened my self-doubts and guilt are starting to overwhelm me again.

I'm so sorry that this has happened.
May I say well done for starting the blog. That was a brave thing to do and you should be proud of yourself for starting it. Your blog has probably already helped many people without you even knowing it.
Writing a blog is your prerogative and you have every right to do so. If you have not named any names and you have now been contacted by your old employer, asking you to delete it because they fear it can be linked back to them.....that to me is their guilt talking. You have every right to write your blog and keep it up. Just because this employer has their own guilt to deal with, that is not your problem. That lies solely with them and maybe they should be asking themselves why it would be bad for it to be linked back to them. This is just my opinion, but I do not feel as if you have done anything wrong here.

If you feel upset about this, then allow yourself to feel that. You have every right to be upset, it's just someone else trying to stop you saying what you need to say. If this is your truth, then in my opinion, you have every right to speak it. If this is an outlet that works for you then I encourage you to keep going. This is your healing journey, and no one has any right to tell you how to do it.
The people that have harmed us do not want to be confronted with that fact so will do what they can to make that knowledge disappear.

I just want to say to you, you are strong. You have made it this far and you do add value to this world. You have nothing to feel guilty about. We are all here with you.

Gentle hug if that feels safe  :hug:

Thank you so, so much, Master of my Sea. Your words really mean so much to me right now.
I'm not quite sure why this is affecting me so incredibly much, I guess it's just the final straw that is breaking my back after all that has happened during the past few weeks, but I am finding it very difficult to deal with this right now.
I want to be angry and stand up for myself, but all I can feel at the moment are fear, shame, and abandonment. I've poured my life into this previous job and worked so, so hard for them, slaving away even at the weekends, but this is how I am being treated and it feels so wrong. I mean, I know that it is wrong and I feel wronged, yet at the same time my trauma voice/ inner critic is tricking me into believing that it is all my fault again and I just can't cope with that at the moment.
I don't know this is actually making me physically sick and I've started to feel so helpless that I had to call the Samaritans to be able to talk to someone and hear their voice, but I am trying to hold on somehow.
So, thank you so much for being there, it feels so good to have your understanding and receive all your kind words.

I am so pleased to hear that you reached out to the Samaritans! Huge well done. It's so hard to reach out like that when you are in such a dark space so be proud of yourself for looking after you. I'm proud of you.
This is so often the case with employers, it's all take, take, take. You do your very best for them and try to do a good job, for it all to seem so worthless when they then treat you like this. This is not a reflection on you. This is just the state of a toxic work environment that appears to be the norm these days.

I had someone on here tell my ICr to 'pipe down' and I'm going to do the same to yours. This is not your fault, you said it, your ICr is tricking you. They are mean like that. Your old employer has a guilty conscience that is bothering them, what they are doing is projecting that guilt onto you. I would like to tell you, the guilt is not yours to own. It belongs to them. All you have done is spoken your truth and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I will tell you this as often as you need me to.

If it feels safe for you, I would like to offer to sit with you through this. Maybe get ourselves a nice hot drink and a comfy blanket and just be :). You are not alone. I am here with you. We all are.

The only thing of true importance right now is continuing to make it through each day and hour.  Please make sure to keep getting help when you need it and have a plan in place to get someplace safe if it gets too much. The thing with your blog can be ignored for now. Safety is all that matters at the moment.  :grouphug:

Thank you Master of my Sea and Armee,
your support means a lot.
I've not been able to sleep much last night because everything kept turning in my head but I am starting to feel a little calmer. I think you are probably right, Master of my Sea, that they have a guilty conscience and now project this onto me and want me to be silenced. I know that I have made a mistake that was serious enough to deserve dismissal but what I did not deserve is all the blaming and shaming that came along with it. This employer knew about my mental health issues but I received very little or no support with this or any of the other issues like workplace bullying or sexual harassment that I experienced whilst working there, so you are right that this was a toxic environment to be in.
I don't want to make excuses for what happened but I feel like my CPTSD and spending so much time in such an unhealthy environment were certainly contributing factors for my mistake but instead of receiving any kind of understanding, I only got terrible accusations and condemnation that really affected me very deeply and made me question myself more than ever before.
It's hard to keep believing in your own worth when others continue to treat you like this over many years, but your comments help me to see that the guilt is not my own. Even with all the things that happened to me in my life I would never treat another person like this. I would never judge everything they are and I certainly would never try to silence them for speaking their truth and trying to raise awareness for depression and CPTSD. To do something like this is just wrong and (at least to me) seems to be bordering on the illegal, but this is even more reason to try and walk on.

Thank you again for all your support and understanding in these difficult times 

MilkandHoney,

I just read your story about how your former employer is harassing you so you won't expose them.  It reminds me of something I figured out a few months ago. The reality is that the ONE thing that will anger a bully the most is standing up to them. By telling the truth, they feel stood up to.  Bullies are fragile. VERY fragile. But they're fragility leads them to becoming irrationally dangerous.

This is true in pretty much every case of abusers vs. victim. Abusers just gets scared when they're stood up to. The shift in power terrifies their egos. And ego is their most important possession.

That being said, we, the victims of these bullies, just need to make sure we pick our battles. It's good to stand up to them, as we've seen in the Me-Too movement, but we need to be sure we're up for the challenge. Calling on Samaritans was you getting support for your own private position in this battle. Good plan! Knowing when you need help and being courageous enough to go get that help is you doing all the right things.

Whether you choose to delete the posts or keep them is up to you and how ready you feel to keep standing up to them. Being shut down and quieted has a misery all its own, and only you can know which brings you more peace; being open or being safe. Calling on support for your side of this story is the best thing you can do. No matter what you decide to do, keep your allies close. There's no shame in either decision.

Thank you, Papa Coco, your support honestly means so incredibly much, I don't know whether I could move on without the support from all of you.
I have just been informed that my previous employer has just filed an official complaint against me, so I am now being investigated by a law firm and they will decide whether I might get banned from ever working in this field again.
I guess I have picked the wrong battle here and I don't know how to cope with all of this.
I'm so sorry to be whining but my entire career and future are at stake now and I just don't know how to deal with this in the state I am in.
I don't know, I think this is as much as I can write right now because I am starting to panic but knowing that you guys are there for me gives me strength

I'm sorry this is happening Milkandhoney
It sounds completely unfair.... I wish I was a lawyer or had any real wisdom in this area, but I dont :(
I hope you can find some calmness as you consider your choices.
Sending support and best wishes for clarity.  :hug:

A lot is happening for you and I can't imagine how you must be feeling. Do whatever it is you need to, to make yourself feel better.

Take care of yourself. I'll be thinking of you

OH gosh, I'm SO SORRY to hear they've taken action.

This may sound like a Hallmark Greeting, but I truly believe it to be true: No matter how much grief they give you, no matter what changes they cause in your life, you can still come out of it stronger. I hope you don't have to leave your field of work, but even if you do, there may come a day when you realize it was the best thing that could have happened. So many people are forced to fundamentally change their lives due to uncontrollable circumstances.  I can't count the number of times I've heard people say, 'I wouldn't wish what happened to me anyone, but, in hindsight, I'm glad it made me who I am today."

Remember, Volcanoes destroy the existing landscape, but then they create a new one. Many gorgeous tropical islands are the result of devastating geological events of the past. And deep, rich forests grow from scorched earth.

These words may feel hollow and unhelpful right now, but I have great hope that whatever journey you're about to embark on with these monsters is temporary. 10 years from now you may look back and see that it led you to becoming stronger, and maybe even happier.

Still: I hope you are able to find a way to stop what they're doing to you. I can only imagine the panic you're feeling. I'm sort of feeling it with you. Lean on us. We're your allies. You're NOT alone in spirit.

M&H, you're not whining, not at all.  we share our thoughts and feelings here, no matter what form they take.  i've actually also, at times, said i was whining while writing in my journal, and was gently but firmly told, w/ infinite patience that i wasn't whining.  we've got so much to sort thru, sift thru, realize, and all of those can bring up their own images, feelings, emotions, etc.  this is a safe place to put them.

i'm very sorry about your ex-employer situation.  sounds like you went thru a traumatic experience working there, and now you have to fight for your right to be who you are.  wish i could help more.  sending love and a hug full of compassion and support. :hug:

I'm so sorry milk and honey. This is a terrible thing to go through. I like Papa Coco's image of a volcano right now. This is tumultuous and difficult damaging and massively disruptive. But beauty can grow here in this spot that is in upheaval right now. I hope you can find and vaguely afford an employment lawyer soon to help you straighten this out and not be bullied. Having a lawyer of your own will help you not have to ruminate so much on whatifs because that will be that person's job. Love and hugs from me, too. Just literally hang in there. They don't deserve to hurt you. You can be angry and sad but don't let them cause physical harm. They are not worth that.

Thank you so, so much for all your kind words - to all of you.
I am feeling overwhelmed by the incredible amount of negative events and challenges I have had to face during the past few weeks and this day was probably the hardest of them all as I had to deal with these awful news and also learn about a death within the family.
Right now, it feels like a terrible situation to get through, but I still have the hope that things will get better.
Thank you for the idea of the volcano, Papa Coco, this is a wonderful image to keep me going.
It's tough and part of me is certainly panicking, but I am grateful to have you by my side and this gives me so much strength.

Hi milkandhoney,

I just want to echo Papa Coco's words that bullies don't like being stood up to. I had an experience where someone who said something sexually inappropriate to me came after me when I brought it to light at work. His colleagues still continue to bother me and I feel crazy at times as it's very passive aggressive, and I think people think I'm aggressive and the ones who's the issue.

It's hard to go through and stressful but I do believe at the end of the day you have the truth on your side, and I believe the truth always comes out in the end.

I hope you're able to do whatever you can to protect yourself. There are lawyers in the UK who sometimes work probono for employment rights. I would also see if you have the evidence to file a claim against this person and have it on record what they have done to you in the past, along with any evidence to back it up.

Sending you support,
dolly

Thank you, dolly, I appreciate your support a lot.
The last 48 hours have been some of the worst in my life with all the issues with my work and career and my grandfather dying, as well, so there are a lot of negative things happening at the same time and I am in quite an emotional turmoil. I haven't slept a wink and hardly managed to eat anything at all, so I cancelled the interviews scheduled for this week to protect myself. In a way, I feel like I've let myself down because I have now missed two very important opportunities but I have to acknowledge that I really am not feeling okay at the moment and that it would have been way too dangerous to even drive their given my current state. I am finding everything way too much at the moment and have had some very intense flashbacks and shakes that have left me feeling utterly overwhelmed and exhausted, so I am trying to take care of myself, even though I am struggling to feel much self-compassion at the moment.
I think the problem is that my whole future is now completely unclear and I don't know what is going to happen with my career, but I am condemned to wait for days, weeks, and possibly months without being able to do much about it. so, obviously there is a lot of unused time that is being filled by my inner critic/ trauma voice and I don't quite know how to escape it at the moment. I've tried to leave the house and go for a walk to distract myself and get fresh air but I haven't managed to do so because I was too shaky on my legs , so any outdoor activities seem to be a bit out of my league for now.
Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I should try to look ahead, pursue some hobbies, and keep working on my job situation but I feel that my pain is just too raw at the moment and I can hardly think ahead to the next day, let alone any future prospects. And, of course, this is making me feel very guilty again because I am too weak to function properly at the moment and can't seem to escape this terrible streak of EF after EF and panic attack after panic attack.
I know that what has happened is not the end of the world but from where I am standing at the moment it looks really quite hopeless and I am scared what the the future will bring and how much more pain is waiting for me in the days ahead whilst I have to undergo this nasty investigation issue and fight for myself when I have hardly any strength left inside of me.

Sending gentle hugs :hug: (if you want them)

It pains me to hear that you are feeling this way. I am so sorry for your loss. It can be cruel what life decides to throw at us all at once.
I just want to remind you that, you are strong, you have survived 100% of your bad days so far and you will make it through this. You have a community behind you :)
Well done for taking the steps that you need to, to make yourself safe. No job or job interview is worth compromising your health. I understand how this could feel like you have let yourself down, but I personally think you have done the exact opposite. You are listening to yourself and you did what was best for you right now. There will be more opportunities. Your safety and getting yourself through this is the most important thing right now,

I'm sorry if this sounds really cliche but when taking things a day at a time is too much, it's ok to take it hour by hour, minute by minute or second by second. Take things as slowly as you need to. All of your fears, concerns and worries are understandable but try and be gentle with yourself. FBs and PAs are horrible and debilitating so please don't feel guilty for not being up at full steam.
Keep coming back here and letting it all out if that helps, we will always listen.

You are doing so well. You can get through this. Sending you so much support and care right now Milk and Honey

M&H

I'm so sorry for your loss and for all the crapola that's coming at you at once. I feel like what MOMS said about taking it minute by minute is excellent advice.

There are times in our lives when moving forward can wait until tomorrow. We're on a pathway to the future, and anyone who's ever run or walked or hiked or biked a long distance knows that periods of rest are critical.

Now may be one of those times to retreat into taking care of yourself. You're in a horrendous storm, and when the storm is just too much to handle, hunkering down and taking care of yourself is what you do. 

A lot of the beautiful souls on this forum are probably wishing we could scoop in and help, and in a way we are. We are here to listen and send love and prove to you that you're not alone in this world.

Sending you love and support any way I can. Stay online with us. There's so much empathetic compassion here. Use it. We're here for you just like you're here for us.

Thank you so, so much, Papa Coco and Master of my Sea. Somehow you always find the right words at the right time and it really means a lot to have your support in these challenging times.
The pain, sadness, and fear are still very much present today and I struggled to do much because I was so overwhelmed by emotions that even the short trip to the supermarket felt like a journey through *, but at least I have managed to get a tiny bit of sleep and life seems a little more hopeful.
Being stuck in an EF is always such a raw, overwhelming experience and I feel tempted to just hide in bed and give in to the trauma voices screaming in my head, but I am slowly starting to think that I am actually making a tiny bit of progress.
I have finally managed to reach out to a trauma therapist and have a first consultation session scheduled for tomorrow, which feels like a huge step for me.
So far, I have never managed to ask for help from others because I was too ashamed and thought that I did not deserve any support. Even when I was really struggling with severe depression and daily panic attacks I thought that I had to deal with it all by myself because I couldn't let anyone see those dark parts of me.
However, being on this forum has helped me realise that I deserve to be seen fully and that it's okay to seek help when we are struggling. It feels so good to know that I have friends here that do understand what I am going through and still accept me, so this is giving me a new kind of strength and hope that I have never known before.
Thanks for always being there!

Milk and Honey I want to say well done for getting out. I struggle so much with leaving my flat and going out and I completely get what you mean about how horrible a short trip to the shop can be. We have both managed to get out today so let's celebrate a win together shall we :)

Also well done for reaching out to a T. That is a huge step and a big way for you to take control of your healing journey. Go you!
It can be so scary reaching out and asking for help and most of us can resonate with feeling like we are not deserving of support. This is what we have been made to believe and feel throughout our lives. But you do deserve that support, absolutely you do!

There are more people in this world that care about than you imagine. You are so important and deserve to find your peace and happiness.
I hope you are proud of what you have achieved today :)

I'm so proud of you for seeking some help. That's a huge step. I didn't look for help until I was 40. Wish I started sooner. You really are doing remarkable. It's been a tough (well that's an understament) few weeks but you are still here fighting and mattering. Keep going!

Thank you so much, Master of my Sea and Armee. Your kind words mean a lot.
It's hard to be proud of myself for seeking help and reaching out for support from a T, when I have been raised to never show any signs of weakness and I had to endure so much emotional abuse when I used to ask my parents for their advice, but I know that you're right and I feel like it is the right step to make.
The T I contacted sounds very nice and she has a lot of experience helping people with trauma and complex PTSD so I hope it will go well. I'll try and update you after the appointment to let you know how it went. It's nerve-wrecking but I hope that it can really make a difference so I'm prepared to open myself up a little and show my vulnerability.

hey, M&H, the problem is we were given incorrect information by the people in our pasts.  they abused us for asking for help, as if it were a bad thing, we were bad for doing so, and caused us to believe that reaching out for help and support was a sign of weakness, when, in fact, it's only the strong who do so.  i'm always amazed at how they were able to turn those tables for us so that even as adults we believe they were right and our own instincts were wrong.

i think you made the decision to ask for help from a T from a place of strength and determination.  i hope it goes well for you.  love and hugs :hug:

It is for that very reason...raised to be afraid to seek help...that you should be so proud that you are able to overcome those voices of the past enough to seek help. It's huge.

I'm wishing you so much luck. I found it incredibly difficult to be vulnerable in therapy for multiple reasons and it took years not weeks to be able to defeat those nerves enough to not be absolutely terrified each time I went . Whatever happens or doesn't happen when you go is normal. Just keep reaching out and grabbing onto help and eventually things shift. If this therapist ends up not being a good fit try others, but she sounds good if she has experience with complex ptsd and knows what that is and how it is different than single event PTSD.

Thank you so much for all your encouraging words, my friends.
I think my consultation session with the T went very well. She is very warm, very understanding, and knows a lot about complex trauma, so we decided that we would have a look at my childhood together and try and work through/ release all the traumatic events that happened.
So, I feel like things are finally starting to move a little and I hope that working with the T will help, but at the same time I am still scared of all the memories I might uncover. At the moment, I hardly remember any of my childhood, the majority of the memories seem to be buried somewhere deep inside of me and I am worried what might happen when I release them. I know it's something I need to do if I want to heal, but I am still afraid that all the suppressed memories and emotions might overwhelm me and send me over the edge.
My youngest years seem to be overshadowed by a lot of neglect, so literally all of my earliest memories show some kind of rejection. My mom was suffering from severe rheumatoid arthritis and was often so weak that she couldn't even open the door of the fridge, let alone care for a toddler and new-born baby. As for my dad, he was just completely overwhelmed by the situation, so there was a lot of shouting, criticism, and later also violence.
Among all these really vague, strangely pale memories there is, however, one that always stands out.
I must have been around 2 or 3 years old when we were visiting my grandparents who were living on Tenerife. So, one morning I woke up quite early and everyone else was still asleep. There was nothing for me to do in the house and I knew I would get into deep trouble if I made any noise, so I went out into the garden to go for a swim. At first, I tried to put on the inflatable swimming arm bands that my parents had bought because I knew I couldn't swim without them, but at some point I gave up and dived in, anyway.
My parents later told me that I very nearly drowned but was saved by a neighbour in the last second, yet I don't have any memories of this and somehow this has always bothered me a lot, as if there was some crucial part that I was missing.
Now, when I read Pete Walker's book, I stumbled across this passage where he states that accidents and near death experiences like this are weirdly common among children who are suffering from parental neglect and rejection. Apparently, he thinks that these children are subconsciously trying to escape from their traumatic lives because they can't imagine a future without the pain and somehow feel that this is the only way to end their suffering. So, ever since I read this passage I have been wondering whether this is what happened to me. Could it be that I subconsciously tried to escape from my life without even being fully aware of all my trauma? I will probably never know, but I feel like it is a plausible explanation, even though it would mean that my childhood was even darker and more traumatic than I have been admitting to myself by now.
All I can say is that there has been so, so much pain in my past that I am now terribly scared to face it. It's clearly what I need to do to heal and move on, but I am also worried that I might become too vulnerable when I open myself up to my memories and start shedding away all the layers that have protected my hard so far.

hi milkandhoney

I just wanted to tell you that what you wrote in white is really interesting to me.....

I had a similar near-drowning at the neighbours and a near-abduction in a big city as well (that I was excited about tbh)... I'd have been maybe 5-8 for them
I hadnt considered that maybe it was my way to escape as a child.
Very interesting.. thank you for an interesting perspective to ponder.

As for being scared to uncover more... this I think we all probably understand too well....
There's so much pain to uncover, but the alternative isn't better.... more triggers, more regret, more anger, etc
I think the beauty of remembering is learning "your story". To me that's a crucial piece before acceptance can happen.
I could be wrong, but when I finally had my story, I had a period of calm.
Of course, learning more for me, meant my story was wrong (so gravely wrong), so now I'm back at it, excited to learn my real story.

Sorry for being long-winded...  your T sounds wonderful... I hope you can work through it all with her at a good comfortable pace for you.
There is no need for speed as they say, as much as it seems like thst would be best.. I'm not sure it is... our minds are ready when they're ready :)
Thanks for sharing, it's very helpful.

I'm glad your first appointment went well. For awhile when i started therapy my mind was trying to release stuff but I just had no story to go with the scary stuff that was showing up. I just bounced between either I'm really anxious and crazy and nothing happened, or something really bad happened. I didn't want either to be true. But there's been so much relief having the stories out in the open and knowing their truth. It is hard no doubt and there will be some suffering. But nothing compared to the suffering caused when that stuff is trapped and not recognized. 

Also I wasn't in trauma therapy so hopefully it will be a smoother path for you.

Milkandhoney

I'm so very glad to hear you've found a compassionate, trauma therapist. It's been my experience that a good TT is the central hub of my healing. Without my TT, even my Ketamine treatments wouldn't make sense.

Trying to help myself without a qualified TT would be like me trying to learn karate by reading about it in a book. I read about IFS. I read about C-PTSD. Reading is good. It truly helps me understand my situation--conceptually. But for me, all the physical healing becomes a living, breathing part of me when my Trauma Therapist physically sits with me in person or on Zoom and goes into my traumas with me, loving me, caring for me, coaching me. He's my Trauma Sensei. It's like the difference between reading about a beautiful place on the earth inbooks versus physically visiting that place in person. A much, much richer experience that lasts much, much longer.

We are trained from childhood to not ask for help, and you've begun to chip away at that bad training. I think you've made one of the biggest strides forward by gathering the courage to get help. I'm so very happy for you.

Trust isn't something I came into quickly. My Therapist is considered to be one of the most compassionate and successful Trauma Therapists in my region, (He's 72 now, and most of his work today is teaching other therapists how to do what he does) and it still took me a lot of visits before I felt like I could truly trust him.

Thank goodness I stayed the course. Some of my earlier sessions were so frightening for me that I'd almost quit him a few times. My own ability to trust him took time. Thank goodness I let time keep me connected to him until I finally broke through my own inability to trust someone enough to let him see all the way into my inner world.

Again: Congratulations on finding a good, compassionate trauma therapist. Courage is not the absence of fear, courage is taking that step in the presence of fear. It took courage to take on your own fear of asking for help. I sincerely hope it pays off for you for the long haul.

Milk and Honey, I am so glad that your consultation went well. I'm pleased that you feel like progress is being made, it is. I hope you can do great work with your T and she is a valuable asset to you as you work to uncover those hidden truths.
I completely understand your fear and worry about what might happen when they are released but now you have someone who can help you as this happens. And we here on OOTS will always be here with a helping hand a kind word, whenever you need us.

I think you are brave and strong for taking this step. It's scary and a whole journey on its own to build a trusting relationship with T but you have made that first move and I hope you are proud of yourself for it.

Thank you so much for all your kind replies Phil, Armee, Papa Coco, Master of my Sea. They honestly mean so much to me.
I'm sorry I haven't been writing or answering much these past few days but I am afraid I have been quite dissociative and buried myself in a lot of unnecessary work rather than focusing on the things that are most important right now. It's something I need to work on and yet I feel like I really needed this dissociative phase to protect me from all the pain and fear I had been experiencing before.
I'm still finding it hard to come to terms with all the events that happened within the past few weeks and I am especially struggling with how alone and isolated I am at the moment. There were several people who offered to help me with my work situation and general mental health but unfortunately they all seem to have "vanished" now, so I am left behind all by myself with very little contact to the outside world.
I don't know, I guess I should not have expected much from these persons because the same thing happened a lot of times before when I sought help and received empty promises that were never fulfilled, but somehow this has brought up a lot of feelings and memories of abandonment in me, which I am struggling to cope with.
The truth is that I can't remember a time when I didn't feel lonely, it's always been such a huge part of my life since most of my family didn't want anything to do with me, I was bullied in school, and I didn't really have any friends at all until my final year at uni. I remember that for the entire two years I studied at Frankfurt university I didn't manage to speak to anyone at all because my social anxiety was so incredibly crippling at that time.
Since then I feel that I have much improved but it is still heavily on my mind every single day. If I dare say so, I was quite popular at all the schools I have worked at so far, however it seems like people really only liked me superficially because I was always kind to them- turns out, they didn't really like me personally and abandoned me without a word as soon as I let my guard down a bit and started to show a little bit of my most vulnerable self.
So, now I'm back to being my old lonely self (well, to be honest I think that I am more isolated than ever since I don't have any friends at the moment and the only people I talk to are you guys and my parents). And, you know, I am finding this really quite frustrating at the moment. I know that this is just my inner critic speaking, but sometimes I can't help but wonder what must be wrong with me if nobody actually likes me or wants to spend any time with me. Of course, I understand theoretically that I am worthy and that I am not a bad person, but when I am feeling so low it's hard to neglect all the years of evidence that seem to proof that there must be something negative about me that drives other people away.

I'm not sure how to unravel all these thoughts and feelings (it seems to be such a huge and entangled mess that I have no idea where to start) but I can't keep going like this and know that I really need to change something.

So far, these feelings of abandonment have been so incredibly overwhelming that I just gave in to them and never managed to process any of it, but this community has given me the courage to do finally do so and I am really grateful for your support and understanding with everything I am going through...

Thinking of you Milkandhoney as you navigate these feelings.

Hey M&H,
I'm sorry to hear you are feeling this way at the moment. I wish I could say more but I'm in a pretty triggered state myself. Just know you are not alone.
Sending you support and care M&H

I'm afraid I have been rather quiet on here during the past few days because I have been focusing on feeling a little bit better. I think it went quite well up until today and I even managed to leave the house a bit more often and do some chores, but tonight I received two letters with further details about the investigations/ accusations against me and I just crumbled as I opened them.

I am so terribly scared that it makes me feel sick. So far I've managed quite well to stay in control of my fear and just focus on different things but receiving those two letters today was such an awful, traumatic experience.... I'm not sure whether I'll ever be able to forget this moment, it was just too much to bear.
Even though these letters did not really contain any new information that I didn't already know, seeing everything written out in front of me and holding the paper in my hand made it suddenly feel so incredibly real and I just don't know how to cope with this.
I'm trying not to panic but it's hard to stay calm when my entire future is at stake and I have absolutely no idea what is going to become of me. And even though I am trying not to take this too personally I cannot help but feel like this is a terrible judgment of who I am as a person.
Part of me is still managing to hold onto the belief that I have a good heart and only ever have the best intentions for everyone, but the way people have treated me during the past few weeks just makes me feel incredibly ashamed about myself. There have been so many nasty accusations, so many people questioning me and my motives, that it is getting harder and harder to keep seeing myself as a good person.
So, I am just torn between a vast range of different emotions right now. There's shame, guilt, anger, hopelessness, sadness, desperation, and a big load of fear that feels like a boulder right in the middle of my heart. It's too much to bear and I don't know where to start when trying to unpick these things, so I'm just sitting here feeling completely overwhelmed

---

I don't know, I've tried to write a little more but my emotions are running away with me and I can't really focus enough to come up with comprehensible thoughts, so I'll stop for a while and maybe come back letter when I am not feeling quite as raw and wounded anymore....

I'm sorry the stress you are experiencing and hoping for smooth resolution.

Thank you, Rainy. It means a lot to not be completely alone in this situation

Hi Milkandhoney,
I wanted to say that you have been so supportive to people in your replies, and also to me, and I am sorry that I haven't been here so much lately - because I wish I could also be supportive to you - you're going through a lot at the moment, and it's horrible to be facing those things.

I wanted to thank you for what you wrote in my journal too - I didn't feel able to reply to people individually at the time I read what people wrote, but I felt supported and it was nice to know people cared.

I want to say to you, that I hope that you don't feel alone with things. 

:hug: (if that's ok)
Hope  :)

It's so much to be going through.  Keep your feet on the ground. This is a rough patch but there is still a life waiting for you on the other side of this mess. Wherever it goes you can rebuild something better.

Until then, yes fall apart and be afraid and feel the betrayal because those are all real things. This is such a shocking thing to go through.

What are you feeling today?

Thank you Hope and Armee,
it means so incredibly much to me to have your support. So far, I always had to face all challenges in my life on my own without the support from anyone, so I am really grateful to finally have found people who understand and who care. At least that is one good thing that has come out of this mess. It's a terrible situation to be in and it weighs a lot on me but I am starting to gain a sense that this is an important step in my journey and that I can find a way to build on this foundation somehow. If these things had not happened and I had not been in quite so much pain I would probably never have found this forum and never sought help from a therapist, so I am trying to see the positives here.
Most of this week has been quite difficult and my sleep difficulties have been worse than ever since my anxiety went completely through the roof, but today I finally felt a little bit more like myself and almost as if I had a little more strength to fight for my future.
I hope it stays that way.

So, I had another night without sleep and am really struggling to keep going at the moment.
I'm just so exhausted and tired of dealing with all of this and feel like there is no way out of this situation.
I have very little or no control over my life at the moment as my entire future seems unclear and I sense that I am starting to lose control over my body, as well, which I am finding very scary.
I've never had any experience of the "shakes" until a month ago but these incidents are becoming more and more frequent and I am finding it hard to comprehend what is happening to me.
Last night, my body was captured by shakes and body tremors four or five times, always starting with my left arm and then moving on to different body parts. And I just can't help but feel scared because I am not used to losing control like this and it's hard when there is nobody there to protect you and keep you safe.
Why is this all happening to me? I guess that my life is very much rules by anxiety and fear at the moment. During the day I normally manage to stay in control of these feelings but at night I can't suppress them any longer and they start to act out violently.
I've tried to seek help from different agencies and applied for a referral to a psychiatrist that might give me a diagnosis of what exactly is happening to me, but unfortunately it seems like there is no help available for me. Apparently I am suffering a lot but not quite enough to be eligible for support.
So it seems like I have to try and figure everything out by myself.
One thing I have discovered is that, weirdly, the word "happy" seems to be a very negative trigger for me that causes my body to tense or move into another episode of the shakes. I'm not sure why that is and can only say that happiness is a very strange concept for me. I can't remember ever feeling happy or safe in my life and I certainly cant imagine ever feeling happy in the future, so I guess that this might be a reason why this triggers me so much. It makes me feel like a failure, someone who doesn't really belong into this world and, therefore, can never find any form of content. And, of course, there is so much pressure in this society to feel happy all the time and to not let anyone see that you're struggling, so this only makes things worse...

Hi milkandhoney
I'm so sorry you're struggling so much right now.
What you are saying about the shakes resonates with me. I was shaking so bad this morning in bed that I had to get up. I've been reflecting on an observation I've made over my coffee ... I'm going to share and I hope that's ok.
It feels to me that my shakes get worse with the anxiety you talk about. Losing control is a big one too. But these shakes also protect me from the big ones. It's like they keep my nervous system satisfied. These are the shakes I have most of the day. They're a nuisance more than anything else to me.
Then there's the violent ones you mentioned. To me those are the scary ones. Like I'm thrown in the past and I'm just terrified. My body reacts violently too. It sucks!! I get these throughout the day sporadically but they really come out at night when I try to relax/sleep. I don't try to relax during the day or I'd get them too.
I think it's awesome that you noticed where they started and how they moved.
My guess is that's important somehow. Just a guess but it's a hopeful one.
I think these violent shakes are the ones that release trauma for me. It just seems so counterintuitive to just allow them to happen. I'm not suggesting it. You'll know more than me when or if it's time to do that.
Have you read Waking the Tiger?
I loved it so much and he really explains so simply all about shaking. I had no idea. I've been shaking since I was a kid. I was tested for Parkinson's maybe 35 years ago. But no idea why ever came out.
Anyway, I hope your anxiety eases. It's so hard when you're afraid of the past and the future :(
I'm sending a big tremor-filled hug your way if that's ok with you.

Thank you so much, Phil.
I really appreciate the hugs and your insights. Since this is all quite new to me I often feel overwhelmed and don't know how to deal with this, so I am very thankful for any kind of advice and it helps to know that there are some people out there who understand.
I'm trying to allow these shakes to happen whenever I can but sometimes I am still too scared to let them take over, even though I feel like you are right about releasing the trauma.
Thank you so much for the book recommendation, I will see if I can get hold of this as it seems very promising

It makes sense to me that "happy" would be a trigger for these shakes. If you don't remember ever feeling happy or safe it's likely that whenever you did feel that way as a kid something bad would happen. So feeling that way now or even the word is a signal that something bad is going to happen. I'd have the same thing except it was feeling safe and connected to my husband. I'd relax and feel safe lying next to him and then BAM! It was incredibly frustrating and confusing. After awhile I began piecing together what was happening and why. I do truly believe you'll have the ability to feel happiness without all these repercussions as you go through the process of healing, too. It isn't fast though and it doesn't come by just wanting to be happy. You're not a failure for not being able to "just be happy." I'm sorry you've never felt happy or safe.

The shakes to me seem like a good sign for you, that you are starting to release instead of bottling up all the trauma. This is happening to me too right now and it is very very disturbing to have no control over your body.

Thank you so much, Armee, your words are giving me hope that I can get better with time. Right now this is all so raw and fresh that I feel incredibly overwhelmed, but I want to trust that this is a good thing and that I am able to release some of the trauma I have carried with me for such a long time.

M&H - it is overwhelming.  Our bodies and minds are used to holding so much and that takes so much effort.  I hope you continue to find small things that support you each step.

Thank you, Rainy, your support means a lot.


I'm probably going to write a little more later, but I've just received the news that my mum has had a heart attack, so I'm trying to deal with that
Don't know how to feel right now but I'm just... overwhelmed

Oh honey. Not one more tthing.  :'(

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Hang tight ok. Minute by minute.

Hi M&H,

A quick shout out to Phil. Your compassion and detailed explanations of your experiences with The Shakes has been an enlightening learning experience for me too. I feel like M&H and all those on the forum who experience The Shakes are lucky to have your helpful inputs as we try to understand them ourselves. Phil, I hope you don't mind being given some kudos, but I see you as my leading expert on The Shakes, and I'm always feeling grateful that you share your experiences with us in such easy-to-understand postings. Before you disclosed that they are so severe for you, the only thing I knew about The Shakes was that Charles Dickens had them after he faced certain death in the Staplehurst Bridge collapse, and that animals shake after they've survived certain death. You are the first person to ever disclose to me that they happen to you, and now I see others chiming in with their own experiences as well.

M&H, for me, the shakes are nowhere near as severe as yours and Phil's. Because of their less severity, up until now, I'd never associated my experiences of being a mild version of The  Shakes. I always called them my Frozen Heart.  They only come upon me when I try to intentionally relive my sexual abuse from when I was 7 years of age. I don't intentionally start the shakes, but I know that if I try to visualize the faces and acts of my abusers, The Shakes, or The Frozen Heart, will automatically begin. I also know that I can stop them by choosing to change the subject in my mind. I believe that I have this control only because my Shakes are so mild. If they were attached to something larger than a single event, then I would not have this much control over them. For me, since they are so mild, if I'll just tuck the memories back into their file drawer in my brain, and lock the drawer, The Shakes just stop. I guess I'm lucky there, that I've been able to identify their trigger, and it's a single trigger.

I believe the reason I have The Shakes when I visualize my CSA, is likely because my life was threatened. For some reason, I became convinced that if I exposed my abusers, I would be killed for it. Perhaps I was threatened that I'd be killed if I told, or perhaps I was just so absolutely certain that I'd be exiled and thrown into the wilderness by my family if they found out. Either way, I believed I would die if I exposed my abusers. The Shakes, for me, are tied to the natural process of dying. I can think of all my other traumas without going into the shakes, but if I think about anything that reminds me of believing, with all my heart, that I was going to die, that's what triggers my experience of icy-heart/shakes.

My experiences with The Shakes are mild compared to those of yours, Phil's, and many other people whom I just now learning about. I just thought that maybe if I share my own lessor intense experience, it would be another example to use to compare and learn from a broader spectrum of intensity. Like just another Case Study to ponder as you work through your own understanding of your own personal experience.

Thank you, Papa Coco, I am always glad to receive your replies, it's good to hear your insights and really helps me to calm down and find a way forward.
This situation today is affecting me a lot and I don't know how to cope with this right now. It's so hard to receive negative news like that and have no one to tell, no one to turn to, no one who can hold me and comfort me. So, I guess the only option I have right now is to find some relief here on this forum and talk to my T about it tomorrow.
I have always been quite close to my mum (despite the fact that she never did anything against my father's abuse and never even once stepped in when he used to hit me), so hearing about her heart attack was a real shock and absolutely terrified me. Outside of this forum she is probably the only genuine connection I have and the only one in my family who still supports me, which means that I really don't want to lose her (and certainly not right now in addition to all the things that have happened recently, it's just getting way too much).
hearing that she is in the hospital right now also triggered a lot of negative memories from my past. When I was a young toddler she got terribly sick with rheumatoid arthritis and couldn't really get out of bed, so obviously she couldn't actually take care of me and my new-born sister, which made me feel incredibly neglected and alone, especially since my father couldn't quite cope with the situation and would often take his anger out on me, so this is when all the physical abuse first started.
I don't know, I've probably been propelled into a really bad emotional flashback right now, but somehow these circumstances are threatening to overwhelm me. I was already feeling very fragile due to all the recent events and my experiences with the shakes, so this is too disturbing to deal with right now. I feel like every time I make a step ahead with my healing something happens to throw into turmoil again, probably further back than I have been before. It's like one step forwards, two steps back every single time and it just feels so... frustrating and hopeless.

That's all I can say at the moment, maybe I can write a little more tomorrow after my therapy session, but everything's a little too confusing, raw, and painful at this time so I can't quite order my thoughts enough to write anything coherent

M&H, I am thinking of you as you navigate your mother's health.

Hi Milk and Honey,

Just sending some warm thoughts your way. How is your mom? How are you?

Thanks for all of your thoughts and hugs, it really means a lot.
My mum is out of hospital now and seems to be feeling a little better although she is still quite weak so I only managed to talk to her for 5 minutes in the phone. It was good to hear her voice after all that shock and worry but in a way it was even more upsetting and showed me once more how toxic my family really is.
One of the first things that she said was that the heart attack was probably caused by too much stress at work and by having to worry about me all the time- which definitely is not a nice thing to hear.
My mum's health has always been very fragile (she's had cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, a heart attack, and a lot of other illnesses) but somehow she and my dad always feel a need to make me responsible for all her suffering.
Mum has had a heart attack? It's just because she has been worrying too much about you recently.
Her insomnia is getting worse and she has hardly slept all week? Again, it's your fault because you are causing her too much distress.
These constant accusations and assignments of guilt never seem to step and I simply can't understand why they keep doing this to me. It started when I was only a year or two old and it never stopped, so of course I am feeling like a bad person that doesn't deserve to be happy, when all my life I have been told that I am only ever causing hurt and suffering to the people around me.
I guess part of me knows that this is nonsense and that my parents have no excuse to use me as a scapegoat like that, but it's hard to defy these thoughts when there seems to be such a wealth of evidence that I am indeed causing others to get hurt in a myriad of different ways...

Hi milkandhoney.
I'm sorry that you were blamed for your m's heart attack. That isn't fair at all.
I say that with authority unfortunately... I was blamed for my m's heart attack too... about 32-33 years ago.
You are NOT the cause.. please try to know that.
:bighug:

I'm so sorry. Toxic indeed. I'm sorry they are blaming you and you are right this is not your fault. Oh I'm so angry at everyone for piling on you. No more! Stop! Just leave Milk and Honey in peace please so they can heal.

Thank you so much, Phil and Armee, it feels so good to have your understanding in this situation and I am very glad to not be completely on my own. I have struggled a lot with feelings of loneliness and isolation over the past few days, so it means a lot to be able to come here and see that there are still some kind souls out there who care and understand.

Trigger warning:
It's a couple of years now that I first suspected I had been raped as a child. I had read some kind of story about a teenage boy who discovered that he had been raped by a relative when he was younger. I found the story very disturbing but something clearly resonated with me because I never forgot this moment. I started wondering whether something like this might have happened to me and the incident with the swimming pool came up but I had no recollection of anything sexual back then and so I pushed this idea to the edge of my mind. Most of the time it remained there, pretty much untouched for many years but whenever I heard similar stories of people who unravelled forgotten memories of being raped, the suspicion rose in me again.
So what if this really did happen to me? A few weeks ago I started having body tremors and panic attacks where parts of my body suddenly started shaking uncontrollably. Most of the time it was just my left arm that was affected but sometimes the shaking spread to other parts of my body, like the legs or even my head. I had never experienced this before but it reminded me of some descriptions I had heard on here.
So, when I started to experience the same I naturally started wondering whether my body was urging me to finally release some dark, dark memories that I had suppressed throughout many years because I didn't have the strength to cope with the trauma back then?
I started to explore this idea a little more thoroughly. At first there were still no pictures or sensations coming up when I tried to remember this particular incident but over time I started getting some sensations that seemed to indicate that I was raped. One after another a series of images started to come up in my mind and from time to time my body also started shaking when I currently reading or watching something as if to alert me to some important details that had something to do with my sexual assault.
I still have not been able to collect enough glimpses and memories to piece together a coherent narrative but I cannot deny that there is some evidence which seems to indicate that I have indeed been raped most cruelly when I was just three or four years old.
The part that I can clearly remember and that I have always carried with me even when I did not suspect anything like a rape, is the following: one morning I woke up very early in my grandparent's villa on Tenerife. Nobody else was awake, yet, but I was unable to fall back asleep and started wandering around the house. There was nothing for me to do and I was afraid to wake up my parents or grandparents because I knew that I would get into trouble if I disturbed their sleep. Instead, I went outside and decided to go for a swim in the pool. It was a nice, sunny morning and the water looked very intriguing so I tried to put on my inflatable swimming wings but couldn't quite work out how to blow them up and put them on. In the end, I decided that I would probably be fine, anyway, because I had been practising to swim with my dad and thought that I could manage without the help of the floats.
Making that decision is the last thing I remember. The rest remained blank for many, many years. I only knew what my parents have told me later: that I had nearly drowned in that swimming pool and only survived because one of the neighbours noticed me, climbed over the fence and saved me from the water. Yet, now there are a couple of more fragments and images that I was able to retrieve from somewhere deep inside my mind:
   - I can see a man's hairy pair of legs standing beside me as I am lying on the floor, dripping wet with water
   - As the man comes closer I notice his turquoise swimming briefs and the huge bulk protruding in front
   - I can feel a painful sensation in my side as I am pressed to the ground
   - The man touches my belly with the tip of his penis and then trails down towards my most intimate parts
   - I can feel something big and hard penetrating me and press my legs together but this only increases the pain
   - I stretch out my arms to ward the man off and say "Nein, bitte nicht, das tut weh" (No, please don't, that hurts), however the man doesn't listen, either because he doesn't understand German or because he doesn't want to listen
   - My legs are kicking helplessly out under the man's weight, my heel grazing against the floor
   - A tear is running down my right cheek
   - Being choked by a large hand, struggling to breathe
   - Feeling sick and feeling the urge to puke but being unable to

There are only so few fragments and yet so many missing memories that sometimes I wonder whether this really happened or whether this is just a strange imagination, some kind of nightmare that I have been telling myself to find an explanation for my pain.
I'm really not sure how to move on from this and what to do with these strange images coming up.
I guess since I was so young at that time (3 or 4 years old) it is only natural that I might not remember everything and that my memories remain very fragmented, but at the same time it makes me question whether this is actually true so I am not sure whether to bring this up with my T or anyone outside this forum. I just feel so overwhelmed with this situation and know that I need to tell someone about what is going on...
I am deeply sorry if this triggered you in any way, I most certainly did not want to cause any harm, I am just looking for some kind of relief and hope that writing about these things will help me release some of the pain and fear I have been feeling recently.

Hey.

Gosh I wish I could comfort you in some way. That seems very very clear to me and I am so sorry that happened to littlr tiny you.

Those memory fragments are clearer than anything I have experienced and I was 19 by the way.

One thing I've learned is the importance of trusting myself. Once I trusted myself a bit, more pieces clicked into place almost instantly. The knowing this happened but not believing myself stage was the worst. Worse than knowing and believing.

Because of everything you have going on I'd probably want to let my therapist know this too is there. I'd want my therapist to know any feelings I might be having about self harm or suicide as well. This is so together you can decide how to triage your healing from everything in a way that helps you heal and maintain stability and safety while you do that. Take your time. Rushing is often not the best course.

Milkandhoney,

I feel the same way Armee does.

THANK YOU for having the courage to bring these memories to the forum.

My heart is aching over what you've said. I'm SO SORRY it happened to you.

---

What you are experiencing is very familiar to me. The first memories of being raped are extremely confusing. The brain has spent decades hiding the rape from us to protect us from going completely bonkers. Now, as some parts of your brain are willing to release these memories, it means that you're progressing in your healing to the point where your traumatized brain believes it to be safe to leak out just a little information. I believe it will stop here and patiently wait for you to become ready for the next level of information. It's a caring and loving way our brains release trauma at a pace that doesn't overwhelm us.

I am now a big fan of how our brains release information slowly at a pace we are able to accept. If your brain were to dump out the entire event at once now, you would be retraumatized just as badly as you were the first time it happened. Our traumas happened fast and, in most cases, unexpectedly, which shocks our brain into life-saving protective mode. To unravel the memories takes a very long time. Trust must be built between your brain and your heart.

I remembered my rape in much the same way you are remembering yours now. Body memories. Were they real? I wasn't sure. I remembered seeing the face of an older boy who lived across the street from me, and the clothing of a man. I felt pain in my rectum and a very intense sense of panic. I very clearly could feel the man's thick, black body hair. I could smell the linen of his clothing. I felt his body heat. For many years, I hid his identity from myself, and called him "the hot, hairy man". He was one of those men who put out more body heat than most people do. I felt his body laying on top of mine, sensed his body hair and his body heat, but could not see his face.

Then I spent the next 20 years worrying that I had dreamt the whole thing. I felt GUILTY for having the audacity to accuse two people of holding me down and raping me when I was 7.

Today, we have better therapy than we did then. I began my memory recall back when psychology was more like leaches and electric shock. Today, you have much, MUCH better resources to call on to help you gradually, carefully, go from that shock of body memory to total recall. For me, pushing it didn't work. Learning to accept that the visions and body sensations were real, allowed my brain to start releasing more information. Today I feel 95% sure that I remember what really did happen.

ALSO, People don't get C-PTSD for no reason. You and I are experiencing the lives of people who were raped as children. That is compelling evidence that something did happen. We don't live in trauma because we once had a dream. Trauma comes from actual events.

I'm SO SORRY that this happened to you. It is such a breach of trust that any adult would do this to any child, male or female. The effects of it are so far reaching that all I can say is I love you for what you're going through right now. I love myself for what I'm going through also. I love all the other men and women on this forum for what we are all going through right now. As painful as these memories are, to me, they feel like my brain is finally trusting me enough to release the information to me. Kind of a blessed struggle to find the truth.

If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate to mention this to your T. He or she is there to help, and the more you open up to them, the more help they can give.

I have little doubt that as you relax and allow yourself to believe your memories are real, that more and more information will be slowly, carefully, LOVINGLY released from your brain into your heart. Your brain may know it happened, while your kind, compassionate heart feels ashamed of accusing someone of it. At least that was my experience. But, after many years of accepting what my brain was giving, I've come to accept that what happened to me was not my fault, and was nothing I needed to be afraid of disclosing.

I'm grateful my brain took 5 decades to release it to me slowly so as to not traumatize me all over again. Your healing with happen faster than mine did because you have better support than I did. You have this forum, filled with people who share similar experiences, and a world of trauma therapists who write helpful books and share what they know with us now.

Love the little girl who was laying there. Hate the man with the bulging shorts. It's okay to hate those who intentionally hurt us. There's no punishment for loving ourselves and hating the criminals.

Hug, hug, hug. I feel what you're feeling and I, as well as many others here, are feeling it with you.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

M&H, i don't believe a 3-4 yr. old brain would/could make up something like that.  what happened to you . . . there is no way this was your fault.  that man, taking advantage of such a young child, forcing that child to do something that hurt, it's abominable.  i agree, i think you showed true courage to allow yourself to write about it here.  thank you for trusting us w/ it.

i believe you and this story would benefit from a therapist's knowledge and perspective.  the more your T knows, the more help they can give you.  i just want to wrap you up with love and gentleness in a hug of compassion and caring  :bighug:

Thank you so much for your lovely messages, my friends, they mean so much to me
I wished I could have replied earlier but I seem to be stuck in a massive emotional flashback and I feel like I can't find my way out by myself.
Christmas time this year is proving so much more challenging than I expected it to be. I'm staying with my parents till after New Year's because I had booked my trip such a long time ago when I was still very much trauma bonded to my parents and had never even heard of the term CPTSD but I very much wished I could escape this situation somehow.
MY T said it's probably best because at least I will not be completely alone and isolated at that time and I guess she's right in a way (I've never been alone at Christmas and dread the idea) but that doesn't make it easier. It's hard to see how much my mum is struggling after her heart attack and it is even harder to endure my dad's constant criticism and misogyny now that I have seen through his façade and am very much aware of what is happening. I try to avoid being alone in a room with him at all times and make sure to not get trapped in  conversation with him but some of the things he says and does just make me feel incredibly angry.
Like why does he keep hugging me when I said I don't want to? why does he keep touching my bum? And why does he keep making terrible remarks about how he won't help with certain chores because such lowly work is only for women?
I'm not sure how I managed to cope with all of this so many years but now that I see how abusive that is I just want to cry... except that I don't feel safe here and try very hard to not let any of my emotions show.
Yet, the truth is that I am really struggling a lot and wished I could just let myself go for a moment and just scream or shout and cry all the tears building up inside of me.
I'm feeling like such a terrible person, like I am only ever a burden to others and shouldn't be here because all I've brought to into this world is just pain and even more pain.
Part of me knows, of course, that this is not true but I'm finding it incredibly hard to accept this because every moment I spend with my parents around makes me feel so dreadful and, of course, I still have all these issues with my work situation and all these terrible accusations against me to deal with.
I wished so much I could talk to my T (or anyone in general) about how terrible I'm feeling, but I'm just stuck here for the time being and the situation seems so so hopeless.

I feel for your situation m&h... the anxiety of being around harmful family and not really being able to do anything about it, lest the mean little remarks like "oh you're being too sensitive" or "it's not a big deal" or "can't you just forgive and forget already?" come out, making things even worse.

When I find myself in a spot where my feelings are overwhelming me but I can't safely emote them, I try to get out in private somehow and let 'em loose.  Not sure if you have access to a car, or even just able to take a walk somewhere and let out a yell / squeeze something / run off some energy / cuddle with something soft / whatever works for you.

Even in my short time here I can see you're such a positive force of support and help on these forums.  You definitely deserve to be here.

Hope the holidays are uneventful for you in the best way, and you're able to find some relief

sending as much support and love as I can milkandhoney :hug:
I'm sorry you are in such a difficult position.
I hope you can focus on this time passing (it will pass)... and I love CrackedIce's idea about sneaking away as best and as much as you can.
If you can, be as kind to yourself as possible. And if you can't, please come here. We are all in your corner...
It's no small thing to be there like you are.. let us encourage you if we can.
I hope there is relief around the corner for you  :hug:

o dear M&H, what a horrible situation to be stuck in.  may i join the others in hoping you can find some place to be on your own, take a break from the toxins surrounding you,

i want to reinforce what you already know not to be true -none of this is your fault, you didn't cause these people to be the way they are, no matter how much they might be suffering.  and those hugs and touches - yuck!  i'd try to keep my back to the wall as much as possible, i think.  no one should have to go thru this, not as a child nor an adult.  as phil said, we're here for you, in your corner.  we've got you.  love and a gentle caring hug, but only if it feels ok.  otherwise, just sending supportive vibes while you manage as best you can till this experience is over. :hug:

This is not your fault. You are not bad. You deserve a place on this planet. None of the things your parents are blaming you for are your fault and you are not crazy. This stuff they are doing is wrong. If you are feeling strong enough, perhaps experiment with setting some boundaries with your dad. It will tell you a lot if you ask him to please stop touching your bottom, it makes you feel uncomfortable, how he behaves after that will tell you a lot. Does he get defensive but stop? Does he do it again? This is a time that will allow you to observe what is happening and to start deciding what you want to do in the future.

Hi m&h,

Thank you for sharing and it really sorry that happened to you.

A friend said something last year that really blew my mind. He was talking about his dad, who most likely sounds like a narcissist, and he said that he doesn't owe his parents anything and he didn't ask to be brought into this world. I think it really should the foundation of my people pleasing nature that I grew up with. I also discovered that it wasn't just him that felt that way, other people did too; it's not just a crazy one off concept. I was born and conditioned into a way of thinking that wasn't good for me anc good for them, and I had to decide, in the words of a therapist, who's life is it anyways?

I'm sorry that your parents are making you feel guilty but you have the right to your own life too, one that makes you feel safe and happy.

Sending you support,
dolly  :hug:

M&H,

All I can do is mirror and second the sentiments the other forum members are giving you. It's all true. You don't deserve to be treated this way, and blood is NOT thicker than water. Being mistreated by your own family is the most disgusting crime I can think of. And I agree with you that you are not who you were when you booked that trip. You are no longer able to be fooled by your dad's unbelievable ignorance.  Your eyes have been opened, and you've found validation that you are right about them. Narcissists are incurably bad. In fact, narcissism gets worse with age...not better.

If you decide to stick it out, I hope the love of your friends on the forum will help soften the ignorance you're having to deal with for a week or so. But if you decide to call the airline and find a way out early, DON'T TELL your parents. Best to keep it a secret until the cab is honking outside, then run through the door yelling "BYE!" as you escape their torture chamber.

Either way, this will end soon, and I assume it will be your last trip home...forever.

I've been there. I escaped my family when I realized that they had finally gotten so ugly that even I couldn't love them anymore.

Thank you, CrackedIce, for being so understanding and for giving me the advice to find some time for myself. I'm finding it really difficult to cope at the moment because everything my dad says or does is hugely triggering for me, but I'm trying to find a little bit of space where I can just let myself go and I feel it helps to spend some time on my own and come back to the forum after a long day of anxiety and upset.

Phil, thank you so much for "being in my corner". It's so wonderful to have you here and to know that I don't have to go through this on my own. Spending time amidst a family that doesn't really care about me and has never made an effort to try and understand what is going on inside me, feels very lonely and isolating at times but I know I am not alone anymore, so I'm sure I can cope somehow.

Sanmagic, thank you for being so understanding. I've told my dad several times that I don't want him to touch me because it makes me feel uncomfortable but he doesn't care. According to him, he's "just trying to show me that he loves me" but when I said that he would let me be and accept my boundaries if that was truly the case, he laughed. And, as always, my mum is saying absolutely nothing. It's the way it has always been but I am starting to see how toxic this is and it feels good to hear that I'm not the only one who sees it that way. I've been taught to always see the problem within me and to feel guilty about everything that happens so part of me just wants to give in to his abuse and pretend I am not feeling anything, but I cant do this, anymore, and it's good to have your support as I try to be a little more assertive.

Armee, thank you so much for your kind, kind words, they have really brought tears to my eyes. Somehow I feel like my self-hatred is always strongest when I am around my family and the longer I am close to them the more I am starting to feel like an absolute failure, so it's good to be reminded that I deserve to be here and that I am not quite as terrible a human being as they perceive & treat me

Dolly, thank you for these wise words, I really needed to hear that. My T has once said something similar and made it very clear that I do not owe my parents anything but it is taking a very long time to sink in, so the more often I am reminded the better. They seem to think that they have done their very best as parents and that it is rather me that is the problem but I know that that's not okay and I am very much aware of all the suffering they have caused me, so I don't owe them anything more than just the most basic human respect, certainly not the kind of obedience they expect from me.

PC,
thank you so much for your understanding. I am very tempted to leave but it seems impossible right now, so I am just focusing on coping with this one day at a time and then find a solution to avoid ever being in a similar situation again. I've been trying to stick to my boundaries and really make it clear that I don't want to be touched in this way but I'm finding it hard because I am too much of a fawn type myself and don't want to cause anyone any hurt. My dad has long achieved mastery in hurting everyone around him but making others believe that he is the real victim, so it's hard to fight against this kind of behaviour. Every time I try to set a boundary he just says "You're being unfair, I haven't done anything to you and I don't deserve to be treated this way, after all I'm still your father"
Part of me just wants to scream in his face and list all the ways he has indeed hurt and abused me but I know this is only going to cause even more hurt because I have seen how they treated my sister when she did that a couple of years ago.
He remains a terrible narcissist and I know he will never change, so why even try to make him realise what he has done to me? I don't have the necessary strength for this and I doubt it would do any good, so I am just trying to get through these few days somehow and then find a way to prevent this from ever happening again as I need to protect myself from their constant abuse

Thank you all so much for being at my side as I try to navigate this I really appreciate it

M&H, I am so sorry that you are in such an awful situation. I would agree with others that if it is at all possible, find a way to have some alone time and space.

I feel angry at your father's lack of respect for you and your boundaries. Grrrr.

You are not alone. You have a community here who cares about you.

You are not terrible at all.

so angry at your F for his disrespect and unwanted/uncomfortable touches.  no, he should not be doing that to you at all.  it's SA in my mind.  i hope you're out of there pronto and don't ever have to be in that situation again.  love and hugs :hug:

Hi Milkandhoney,
I am so sorry that your F doesn't respect your boundaries, and has treated you in that way - it is unacceptable and not right.  I relate very much to things you write, I had a difficult relationship with my F - he also didn't respect my boundaries.  It isn't right.  I do feel angry as I think about this.

I hope you are ok, and that you are able to have some enjoyable moments at the end of this year and into the next one, and I would like to wish you the best for 2023, and send you a hug, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

Hi M&H, I am catching up on your journal and journey.  I hope that you are close to heading back to your own place.  I resonate with the "before" and "after" of seeing my parents when I recognized their abusive behavior and the long term impact it has had on me.  I am also resistant to your T saying it would be better to be with people that feel unsafe than to be alone.  I care about you and am glad you are here finding your way. 

Thank you so much for all your kind words, my friends. I'd normally say a few words to each of you but I'm still processing lots of different things and I just don't have enough headspace at the moment...
So I just wanted to give a quick update as I have finally made it back home to the UK. I've never fully realised it before but it is such a massive relief to not be in constant contact with my parents anymore. Whilst I was staying with them over Christmas and New Year's I constantly felt unsafe, unwanted, and judged. I could hardly sleep and very rarely dared to leave my room. I avoided going anywhere near my dad if at all possible because his terrible touching never stopped but of course I couldn't escape his constant angry shouting reverberating through the house and I couldn't escape his constant criticism and verbal abuse.
Now that I'm back I feel so so much better. My worries are still there (I still haven't managed to find a new job, the investigations against me are still going, and of course there are so many other things to be concerned about) but I have finally been able to sleep again and tend a little more to my own needs rather than living in constant fear and reverting back to my defence mechanisms.
I've had a session with my T today and it was so helpful to hear her confirm that what I have had to endure with my parents is indeed emotional abuse and sexual harassment and that my dad does indeed seem to be on the narcissistic spectrum. I wonder how I didn't actually recognise this during the first 27 years of my life since it seems so overwhelmingly obvious right now but at least this new knowledge helped me get through the ongoing abuse and it helped me make the decision to not go back again if I can avoid it.
It's a painful decision to make because I don't really have anything against my mum (other than enabling my narcissistic dad and not doing enough to protect me I don't want to blame her) and I certainly don't want to abandon her whilst her health is so fragile, but I just can't bear being close to my dad anymore and I know I need to protect myself. He seems to be getting worse and worse with age and I don't have the strength to keep dealing with his constant anger and rage. Nor do I want to. I've realised that he is just a despicable person and I can't even name any positive traits that he might have, so why should I spend with a person like this who just keeps hurting me again and again but never takes responsibility for his actions and always blames me for everything.
So, yes, I kind of wished there was a way to keep seeing my mum from time to time without having to cross paths with him but that doesn't seem to be the case, which means that the only way to protect myself and give myself space to heal is to cut the ties with them.
It's painful and scary and naturally I feel like a terrible daughter to be doing this, yet I can't see how I am ever supposed to get better if they keep abusing me.

M&H, those are difficult realizations to acknowledge and act upon, for sure, but i agree w/ you that self-care is of the utmost importance.  so glad you're home and out from under such attacks and abuse.  also glad your T was able to confirm the reality of what went on w/ your F.  sending support for your decision to stay away from him.  love and hugs :hug:

MilkandHoney,

I'm so glad you're home and out of that nasty environment. I felt for you the whole time you were there. I remember feeling trapped by my own family, and I couldn't help but feel bad for you that you were in that situation all week long.

Going No-Contact isn't always as easy as it sounds. As you work through this, your friends here on the forum are ready to support any decision you need to make. And you can take as long as you need to.

I'm glad you're home. I trust you won't be attending any more holidays with them.

:hug:

Hi MilkandHoney,

I'm glad you're able to come to that realization about your family and see what was happening. Like Papa Coco said, going no contact can bring up it's own set of challenges especially around guilt and the feelings that you have for your mom. Walking away did make me feel like a terrible person too, and I still struggle with setting boundaries on what is exactly "helping them" and what is "hurting me," but it is getting better. You've probably learned all this from a very young age and changing those patterns will take time.

It's your life now and you get to do what *you* want with it.

Sending you a hug if that's ok  :hug:
dolly

Sanmagic - thank you for your understanding and for reminding me it's okay to take care of myself. I really struggle with that at the moment (there are so many feelings coming up that seem to say that I don't deserve anything better) but I know you're right and I'm trying to have more self-compassion even and especially when these thoughts come up

PapaCoco- thank you for always being there, knowing that you care and that you understand definitely helped me to get through this terrible time

Dollyvee- thank you, thank you, thank you. It's good to know that I am not the only one struggling with this and that it is a very normal process given that we were all trained to neglect ourselves in a way but I am trying to take the necessary steps to unlearn these beliefs and start supporting myself a little more. I always find it easy to encourage others and see the best in them but when it comes to myself, I just get stuck, probably because I am still too blended with all the hurting parts of myself that had to bear most of the trauma and suffering as a child


- - -

Yesterday just after getting back home I felt so hopeful. I had escaped the terrifying influence of my parents, it was a new year, and I was hoping to be able to make a new start. But now I feel very much stuck again. There are so many things that are important for me to do as soon as possible (such as finding a job, writing an official statement with regards to those awful investigations still going on against me, etc) but I am finding them so incredibly triggering at the moment so I just stay in bed all day procrastinating and dissociating.
I don't really know that kind of behaviour from myself as I normally am an extreme perfectionist and keep slaving away for hours and hours to get things done to the highest possible standard but this time I seem to be lacking the strength and I'm scared to face the emotions that come along with it.
I guess there are so many things in my life that are unclear right now and I am filled with so much fear and anxiety that I don't have enough energy left to take this on, as well. Every time I try to convince myself to finally get started with those tasks I seem to experience a terrible spiral of shame, guilt and fear that makes me feel like a complete failure, so in the end I just distract myself somehow and stay busy watching TV or reading books or doing other things that aren't really that helpful at the moment.
In a way I can understand that this is just meant to protect me from being traumatized again and having to to re-experience all the sad events of the past few months, but at the same time I know how important it is for me to do these things and stay within the deadlines so I'm not sure what to do.
It's all so much at the moment and I don't really have anyone who could help so it seems like I have to find a way to get through this somehow even if it hurts

Its so much to be managing right now. I'd just hope when the time comes to write that statement that you can get in touch with a bit of anger at the situation. That may help the shame spiral and awaken some motivation and self defense.  :grouphug:

M&H, maybe you need some down time after your visit w/ your parents.  i think of it as self-care - you went thru a lot, and some rest and distraction may be good medicine for a while.  it makes sense that all those other things hanging over your head are feeling overwhelming, along w/ everything you're processing from the holidays.  it's an awful lot.  please, may i encourage you to go easy on yourself.  you deserve that.  love and hugs :hug:

Hi M&H,

I know the feeling you are describing and it's unfortunately the reality of growing up in a narcissistic family. Not that you can't change it or that it but being the child of a narcissist brings up a very different reality and I often feel like I've had to wade through a lot of garbage and I have. When it gets like that, I try to go for a walk in nature and ground myself. Maybe reach out to someone not necessarily to talk about what's going on but the connection might help you see another side, or find something that comforts you that you know you can do.

I think we're brought up to not see the good in ourselves but to also be overachievers and do everything right. So, when something goes wrong, the whole system goes down in a way. It was helpful to read some of the comments on Dr. Ramani's videos and that is a lot of peoples' experience - you can be good, but don't be too good or they'll bring you back down, and who do you think you are etc? I think it definitely fosters a lack of self-esteem.

The work stuff is hard and I have had a lot of issues through work but seeing my t helped a lot overtime. I worked for someone who said to me, "no one here likes you, but I do" while we were alone. It threw me for a loop for a long time even though I knew it was off. I heard that line in one of Dr. Ramani's videos verbatim as something a vulnerable narcissist would say. When I told people about it, no one said or did anything/ stuck up for me etc because they all got along with this person and it made their life easier to do so. When I told him that he can't speak to me like that etc, it was me who looked like the problem that I couldn't get along with him and therefore the group. I know it really sucks but you have to stick up for you because no one else is going to do it.

Sending you a hug if that's ok  :bighug:

dolly

I'm glad you are home and no longer in that destructive environment.

I know the feeling of being so overwhelmed and triggered. Please give yourself as much comfort and kindness as you are able.

Welcome home! I'm glad you're out of that environment.

I know the feeling of being overwhelmed as well. I hope you can be gentle with yourself.

Armee- thank you so much for your advice. In the beginning I felt completely overwhelmed by shame and guilt but I'm beginning to feel some anger now and I find it strangely freeing. I never knew how much relief anger could bring. Growing up this was an emotion that was forbidden to anyone other than my dad and if we decided to defend ourselves against him or take up any kind of fight response this was punished most severely. But now I can finally see how this might be a valid response. I would never want to direct my anger at anyone but I have been saying a lot of nasty words in my head because I am so angry at these people for accusing me of such terrible things, ruining my future, blaming me for their shortcomings, and  using my mental health issues etc. against me. This is just not okay and I am determined to fight. As a child I never had a chance to fight because I depended too much on my parents and of course this flight/fawn behaviour carried on into my future but this is the first time I really feel like I do not deserve all this pain and that I need to do something to protect myself.

Sanmagic - Thank you so much for your validation. Part of me knows that I deserve to rest and recover but this was never allowed in my childhood and so the times when I tried to distract myself or just play were also the times when I was most vulnerable to my dad's abuse. I guess this is the reason why I find myself unable to relax and often unable to sleep most nights and yet I feel that I am slowly getting better at that. It feels so good hearing from others that I am allowed to take care of myself, so thank you for your help.

Dolly, I'm so grateful for the hug, I really needed that. And I am also grateful for all your advice regarding narcissistic parents, this has been so eye-opening and validating for me. In a way it makes me sad and anxious because I now know that my dad is never going to get better and that his abuse is never going to stop unless I stop contact with him, but it also feels very validating. I finally understand what happened to me and I can start to see that this was never my fault, that I was just a victim of a narcissistic family that never cared about the person I actually am and dried whatever they could to turn me into the ideal daughter they envisioned me to be. But the truth is that it's humanly impossible to fit into this perfect vision they have subscribed themselves to and even if it was I wouldn't want to.

Not alone - Thank you so much. I still struggle with giving myself comfort and kindness but I feel like I am healing just a tiny bit more every time I hear it, so I'm very grateful for your words

Snowdrop - Thank you for making me feel less alone with this overwhelmed feeling, I appreciate it a lot


---

It feels so good to have all of your support, it gives me strength to keep facing this situation even when I'm tired and exhausted and just want to give up. There are days like yesterday when it all seems just too much to bear but thanks to all your help and advice I felt a little better today and I was so glad to finally be able to catch my breath. The triggers are all still there and I can feel the shame and guilt still lingering and lurking underneath the surface but at least I have been able to do some of the things I wanted to do, which was a relief. I haven't been able to face the greatest, scariest challenge, yet, but I hope I can build a little bit of momentum so that I can finally gather enough strength and courage to tackle this issue during the weekend or early next week at the moment.
It's always at the back of my mind and I can literally feel the anxiety stirring somewhere deep inside of me but I also know I need to be careful and not force myself to do too much at once or else the trauma might overwhelm me again.

Hi M&H!  Just wanted to pop in and give my encouragement and support.  Not sure if it'll help, but I find when I'm facing what seems like an impossible task (at work or otherwise) I try to snap out of the procrastination by breaking it down into tasks / lists / to do items.  It helps me think of the big problem more clearly and then address them as small bite-size chunks - it's easier for me to think "well I have an hour now, I can deal with this small bit of a task" rather than "bleh, I only have an hour, there's no way I'm going to be able to get anything done on that huge issue".

Hope you have a great week!

Thank you very much, CrackedIce, I really appreciate your support. I took your advice and started with some of the tasks that seemed more manageable and I think I made pretty good progress at first.
I'm not used to fighting for myself and my own rights and in the beginning I found it very difficult to keep going because there were a lot of negative beliefs coming up. "You deserve this pain. You're not good enough. You're just a wretched little girl and there is no hope for you, so you should better give up your efforts and save you all the suffering."
In the past these kinds of thoughts always used to stop me as I didn't have the strength to argue with my trauma voice but this time I kept going and for a couple of days I actually started to feel quite hopeful and a little better about myself as a person. I realised that not everything that happened was my fault because I had suffered so much whilst working at this terrible place. There had been sexual harassment, discriminatory comments, and bullying and nobody was prepared to help me when I asked for support so it probably was only a question of time till I would eventually break down and snap under all this pressure. This was a lot of stuff to bear for anyone but when you already have suffered from so much trauma in the past it makes it even more difficult to cope with things like that.
It was hard to realise how much pain I have had to endure but it also gave me hope that people would understand my situation and that it might possibly prompt them to reconsider those awful allegations and accusations against me. So, I tried to reach out for help and support with some safeguarding boards and other local authorities in the area and see whether they could give me some advice and maybe even help me when writing my statement, but I got rejected from all of them and it just feels so sad and awful.
I've mentioned how much the sexual harassment affected me, how much I suffered from the emotional abuse of my superiors at work, and how much the racist and homophobic comments horrified me but there was absolutely no understanding and no support offered, so I just feel despair. When not even people whose job it is to deal with issues like this are willing to support and protect me how can I ever hope to find understanding from anyone? What is wrong with the world that we listen to people who are disclosing their pain and just dismiss them without thought?
I don't know how to move on from this. There are a couple of people left whom I could possibly ask for help with my situation but this has always been difficult for me even under the best circumstances and after the most recent experiences I am not sure whether I have the necessary strength to do that.

dear M&H, i wish i could do more than offer support for you and what you're going thru.  it just all sounds horrible.  sending love and a hug full of strength. :hug:

Hi M&H,

I'm sorry that sounds like a lot to go through. It sounds like you did a really good job of tackling those trauma voices though, and it helped you to make some pretty big realizations about the environment you were working in and what you went through there. No one should have to endure sexual harassment at work. It might not seem like much, but you are making steps and it's all a learning process. No one was ever perfect going through this, that's just the conditioning from your parents.

I've been through something similar and the difficulty is proving that something happened. After speaking with a lawyer, and even after I told him what happened etc, he stressed the importance of hard evidence. Otherwise, it unfortunately comes down to your word against theirs. Maybe you are lucky to have something like this (text messages, emails etc), but most perpetrators are very careful and know how to skirt the rules.

It might be helpful to start making a timeline of everything you remember, maybe just in point form as an outline of what happened to get it down in one place. It might also be helpful to have a search on workplace sexual harassment in the UK and if there are any lawyers willing to take on the case. It could be that they work on a no win, no fee basis. The employment lawyer I spoke with was willing to take on cases pro bono because they had been through a similar experience as me. So, there are good people out there among the other ones.

Sending you support  :bighug:
dolly

M&H, it is not ok what you have experienced and that you have sought help and not received it.  I am here with you even though I can't help in any other way.

Hi Milkandhoney,
I can't find the right words to express what I want to say, but I want to say that I hope you can negotiate your way through this.  Reading some of the things you've experienced at work, it's horrendous, and I am so sorry that they haven't been supportive and that the places you sought help from were so unhelpful. 

I agree with Dollyvee that you did a really good job of tackling the trauma voices, and it shows strength that you've realised and escaped the environment you were in - it really sounded extremely toxic and the behaviours you've experienced there are not acceptable.

I also send you support.

Hope  :)

That sounds like a commendable effort of reaching out. I feel sad for you that it's turned out to be such a disappointment.

Do you have any activities that help you feel strong? For me it can be things like getting moving, putting on music, getting chores done, or researching something interesting. Getting started is often a battle but I'm learning to notice how my body will acquiesce to relief when I really need it to, and trust that that will happen.

I bring this up because it sounds like you could use some strength, Maybe you know some things that could help that along, when the time is right.

Thank you all so, so much for your support, I really appreciate it.
The past few days have been very busy for me with a lot of things going on, so I didn't even manage to pop into the forum and read all your messages until now.
I wished I had the time to respond to all of you in detail, but this will have to wait for some time as I still have so many appointments and deadlines to juggle at the moment.
The good news is that it seems like I have found a job that will give me a decent salary whilst I figure out what is going to happen with the investigations/ allegations against me. It's not my dream job but at least it brings me some relief as I won't have to worry that much about being able to pay my rent. I just hope that I will be able to manage the stress as it involves making a lot of phone calls, which always fills me with a lot of dread.
The other think that seems like a small light at the end of the tunnel is that I have found a solicitor who has taken on my case and she said that we have a chance to make a claim for unfair dismissal based on the fact that I had been experiencing so many dreadful things at that job (sexual harassment, bullying, etc) and they made absolutely no adjustments for me even though they knew how much I was struggling with my depression, anxiety, and PTSD.
So, my hope is that this will finally bring an end to all my struggling. I'm not looking for any financial compensation or anything, but it would mean so much to get some recognition for the things I have been going through and it would also mean that they would have to drop those nasty allegations against me, so if we are successful with that claim I feel like I could finally end that dreadful  chapter in my life and move on. I wouldn't be unscathed and the trauma would probably remain a part of me for a long time, but at least it would relieve my conscience a lot.
Unfortunately, I have also had some negative encounter with my mum this week, but somehow this didn't bother me so much because at least my job situation was beginning to look more positive which gave me some hope. Still, I will have to take some time to unpack this, as I am very tempted to go completely no contact with her for the time being...

congrats, M&H, not only for finding a job but a solicitor to take on your case as well.  being able to put that experience to bed, so to speak, i'm sure will bring with it a lot of relief for you.  well done, keep going, we've got you.  love and hugs :hug:

 :hug:

I'm so happy that for now you have found a job to pay the bills and someone to represent you who thinks you have a case. I think you do too.

It's OK to put your mom on a backburner for now. You don't even need to tell her what you are doing.

Hi M&H,

That sounds great - congrats!  :cheer: I think people like that try to go to lengths to intimidate and bully thinking that people will back down. Unfortunately, people who have been through a lot (like those of us with CPTSD) will tend to take it on and blame ourselves but it doesn't mean that it's true. Kudos to you again for standing up to them and telling your side.

Sending you support for going through that process,
dolly

Heey M&H!

WooHOO!  Congratulations on the new job, and the new solicitor. I agree with you and Armee both, your mum can sit in the dark alone for a while. You can go No Contact for as long as you need to. She's not contributing anything worthwhile to your life, and I doubt she's accepting any positive contributions from you also. She's a drain on your energy. A vampire. She drains your energy only because it's in her DNA to do so.

Your job and your solicitor are far more important right now.

Here's a good luck hug!  :hug:

I'm sorry I haven't been more active on here lately. I thought I was getting better for a while but now it turns out that since I went NC with my parents, my mum decided to search me up on google and other search platforms so she found one of my accounts where I have been talking about my depression and CPTSD.
She never did that before because she is not exactly active on social media or anything yet apparently she felt the need to check up on me.
So, it seems like she had read some posts about my depression and childhood trauma (luckily not on this forum but some other accounts) and now she is freaking out. She has called and texted me loads of times and even asked my sister to do the same.
So now I am sitting here and feeling very anxious, very guilty, very vulnerable, and a lot of other things that I can't define.
And the worst thing is even now she is still just focusing on herself.
- I am worrying about you
- I feel bad because you are constantly causing me concern
- I have a duty of care for you because you're my daughter so you need to speak to me when something is bothering me

What kind of duty of care is she talking about??? She never protected me from my dad's physical and emotional abuse and has constantly been gaslighting me whenever I tried to speak up. How is that a duty of care?
And now I'm afraid that she's going to tell my dad everything she has read (because that's what she always does) and * will break loose.

I just don't know what to do. I have immediately checked my privacy settings for all accounts so that she will hopefully not be able to find me again but I just can't cope with this. Too many calls, too many text messages, too much pressure and too little genuine care.
It feels like she is just freaking out and needs to do something to maintain her self-image of a "good mother" (haha) but I can't deal with this right now. Eventually I just hang up on her and stopped responding to her messages. It felt good in a way because I had never done that before and it was quite freeing but at the same time it gives me a lot of anxiety because I don't know what is happening and can't foresee how this is going to end.

One day, it will end with you feeling freer than you ever have. You have the right to set boundaries to keep yourself ok, including boundaries of how and when contact is ok right now and what the consequences are for breaking your boundaries (such as blocking her number for texts and phone calls). Your job is to protect yourself. Your parents seem to be causing more pain instead of helping to take it away, otherwise your reaction to your mom's "care" would be different.

I'm really sorry this is happening.

That sounds awful, M&H. I'd feel anxious and vulnerable in that situation as well, along with all sorts of other things.

I agree with Armee. You have every right to set boundaries, protect yourself and keep yourself safe.

Is there anything you can do to bring comfort to yourself? A hot drink or a soft blanket perhaps? :hug:

Milkandhoney

I'm SO sorry to hear what your m is doing now. You do not deserve to be treated like this by anyone, let alone your own mother.

It seems suspicious that after you visited her, she suddenly needed to dig into your personal life...Hmm. Narcissists are acutely aware of when we are beginning to break free from them. Maybe while you were there, she could smell the odor of change. You weren't quite as easy to manipulate as you used to be. PANIC!  Narcissists HATE when their victims escape. So she needed to start digging. If you're tattling the truth to others about her nastiness, she needs to find a way to turn it around on you. She needs to find some dirt on you that she can manipulate and quiet you down. To a narcissist, life is one big competitive sport.  They know for a fact that they are incompetent at life. They're incompetent lovers, incompetent parents, incompetent employees, incompetent neighbors, etc. But rather than become competent at something, they choose to cloud reality with lies in order to hide their incompetence.

Love is just a word used to manipulate people with. This, to a narcissist, is war. How can she control you if you aren't her little puppet anymore?

I am on the edge of my seat to hear more. I hope she isn't able to take anything of importance from you.

Armee: Thank you so much for your validation. When I first hang up on my mom and decided to cut her off, I felt so dreadful because I was afraid of hurting her in a way. But the truth is that she had been hurting me for years and it's only right that I stand up for myself for once even if it feels uncomfortable and strange.

Snowdrop: Thank you for your kind words. I did indeed end up getting a hot drink and sitting in bed with a blanket and it really helped. At first I was overwhelmed and kept panicking as I didn't know how to deal with all of these emotions and the pressure coming from my family but I'm slowly starting to feel calmer about it.

PapaCoco: Thank you so much for your thoughts. I think that once again you are right about the narcissism. I'm finding it very hard to detect this because my first instinct is always to see the very best in people but in this case I am starting to see how wrong I was to keep believing my family only wanted the best for me. I'm not quite sure why she is creating all this trauma about the fact that I am struggling with depression (maybe she does indeed worry a bit about me, or she just needs to believe that she was a decent mom) but it did really hurt me how she kept giving this issue a strange twist, as if I was actually hurting her and causing her unnecessary worry that she didn't deserve. She also seemed angry that I hadn't told her about my mental illness even though I was quite open about it with some friends/acquaintances, however I didn't have the heart to tell her that I could never trust her to keep me save and that her reaction proved my point. What hurt the most, though, was the fact that once again she portrayed this as just another issue that I have and totally ignored that my depression and SI do indeed come from the abuse that she and dad put me through for years.
I am still not sure how to move on from here, so I hope I can get a little clearer about further actions when I see my therapist on Tuesday. However, I did start reading the book that you recommended a couple of times (the sociopath next door) and I am finding it eye-opening.
I don't really think that my parents belong quite in that category of sociopaths without conscience but their narcissism comes close enough. And I am starting to go through some of my past experiences at school/ work to see how many sociopaths I have encountered in the past and it feels strangely validating to find that there really was something bigger going on and I was not just being "too sensitive" as people always said.
So, thank you so much for the recommendation, it helps a lot.

Sounds very similar to what I went thru with my mom and I always only saw the good in other people and the bad in me. It's how we survived that type of household.

Milkandhoney,

I'm glad to hear you're reading that book. It's one of my favorites. Like you, I called it "eye opening!" I also started to see how many narcissists I'd really been attached to over the years.

Dr. Stout mentions that for the purpose of the book's simplicity, she lumped all categories of narcissism into one word: Sociopath.  Before her groundbreaking education on how to spot and handle narcissists, I read In Sheep's Clothing by Dr. George Seamans. His book from the early 1990's called them "Disordered Characters".  I read another book, a REALLY fun one called Emotional Vampires by Albert J Bernstein.  No matter what we call these toxic people, they all use the same tricks out of the same toolbox.

A new, great source of education, is this YouTuber named Dr. Ramani. She's doing a great job of providing all sorts of eye-opening information on how these people are to be identified and handled.

No matter what we call them, they are toxic and they are all alike. ALL ALIKE and very easy to spot once you've started to learn the behaviors.

It doesn't matter what kind of gun I'm about to be shot with, ducking is always the best strategy. It also doesn't matter why someone is using the narcissist's toolbox on me. If someone is or isn't a "true" sociopath or true narcissist, or Borderline Personality Disorder, if they use the narcissists' toolbox, they are to be handled with same type of selfcare. Don't engage. Their end game is always the same: They appear to be the victim. They take what they can. They love no one. They insult anyone who is a threat to their sick grandiosity. They feel NO remorse for any sin they've ever committed or are committing now. Doesn't matter what diagnosis title they deserve. Doesn't matter what kind of gun they plan to shoot you with. Get away if you can.

My example is: She might not be a witch, but if she's wearing a black dress and holding out an apple for me to eat, I'll go ahead and decline the apple.

I'm so glad to hear you're educating yourself about these monsters. The more we understand them, the more we are able to rapidly spot them in a crowd and the more we are able to deflate their power...which btw, is ONLY the power of words, and that power ONLY works if anyone's listening.

(Thanks for including BPD with your discussion Papa Coco. I often feel I don't know...alone, neglected...when listening to experts talk about narcissism and the damage done. My mom wasn't a narcissist, she had Borderline Personality Disorder (and others). But the tricks and manipulations and resulting trauma to those stuck in the path are the exact same. Just the underlying motivation and triggers for the behavior are different and there's even more of the poor victim thing going on. )

Hi Milkandhoney,
I also think you have every right to assert your boundaries, and I wish you strength in doing that.  Sending you a hug of support as well, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)