Out of the Storm

Well look at me! I finally found a title for this journal that didn't make me feel exposed and panicky! 

It's the little things.

 :grouphug:

I like it! :grouphug:

While some may take it for granted, feeling safe is one of the more precious things we could ever hope for. It may take lots and lots of learning and effort, un-learning and re-learning, but finally when that sun  :sunny: breaks through, back of the storm, no words can adequately describe what that's like. But wait -- I think you've found one so simple but also eloquent and forever life-changing -- SAFETY!

I love the title!  :applause:

The subject of this post is the biggest and scariest thing I've learned since discovering the concept of C-PTSD earlier this month.  Everything triggers me.

I've been a detective for the past 20 years, gathering information and clues from my available sources and tirelessly (or, rather, quite tiringly!) analysing the evidence to try to determine what happened to me in childhood.  I have wanted to know, so that I could figure out if there was a way to try to "fix" it.  I know I can't FIX it, but my life's goal is to become happier, to not have to suffer so much of the time, to not inflict one tiny little bit more of my pain on others than I absolutely have to, and to make it all the way to the end of my natural life to die without pain or fear.  After a brutal twisted childhood in which the trauma was nearly constant but very little about what traumatised me was perceivable to the outside world, I have been lucky enough for the past 20+ years to be in a sufficiently protective and nurturing environment to have the resources and opportunity to do that work, and I would be dishonouring everything that means anything to me if I didn't do it.  I won't save the world, but I won't make it worse either, and I'll never hurt anyone the way that I have been hurt.  This is how I will justify my existence and make bearable my lifelong suffering.

WHERE IT STARTED:  Before birth.  My mother's pregnancy with me was supposed to have the same miraculous effect on my father's regard for her that the advent of my older sibling had had a few years before.  It didn't, and somehow that was my fault.

I hope to write more.  It is REALLY hard.

PS:  I read in another thread where someone said something about perfectionism and having to re-edit a post a few times because they can't bear to leave in a typo or a grammatical error.  I have that, too.  It's a giant pain in the whatsis.  So that was reassuring!

Hugs, support, your life is important! :grouphug:

So many of us grew up in homes where you did not talk about your pain, and your abuse was minimalized. It is wrong to keep us silent, you're breaking away from that oppression and that's brave.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

I woke up angry this morning.  Usually, I wake up depressed, and anger is supposedly "better" than depression, but I wish some day I could wake up calm and refreshed.  I suppose that does happen once in a great while, but really almost never.  I almost always wake up with negative feelings of one kind or another, almost always wish I could just keep sleeping a while longer.  Sometimes the negative feelings recede enough to only be a mundane and familiar nuisance once I get up and go about my day, but other times, they just hang around and deepen as I try to operate with the all the underlying mental and physical pain that has characterised my entire life. 

I have a deep fear of anger.  Displays of anger give me a fight-or-flight response that really messes me up.  All anger, even from strangers in public arguing 50 feet away who have nothing to do with me.  Even on television.  Even my own.  Maybe especially my own.  If I feel anger, one of my primal defences is to turn it into sadness and depression.   I never feel any kind of empowerment from anger, only fear, churning stomach, and amplification of the death-wishing voice.  I hate my sadness and depression, but I guess they're less scary.  I WANT to somehow access my anger and use that energy in a positive way, because heaven knows there's enough of it in there to burn cities, but I haven't found a way to do that yet.

I really relate to this post. I'm just screwing the lid off of my own bottled up anger. For years - decades - I bought into the "don't think about it and it won't bother you" philosophy, only to find that anger is like a tiger you put in your basement, growing louder and hungrier with time.

Quote from: Three Roses on June 26, 2019, 02:28:56 PM
I really relate to this post. I'm just screwing the lid off of my own bottled up anger. For years - decades - I bought into the "don't think about it and it won't bother you" philosophy, only to find that anger is like a tiger you put in your basement, growing louder and hungrier with time.

That's an evocative and very eloquent way to put it.  After years of buying into the similar but slightly different "Sure, there's plenty I could be angry about, but being angry makes me feel bad and doesn't change anything, so why should I bother with it?" mentality, I had to start confronting my anger last year when the therapist that I saw twice a week for 17 years retired.  That therapist was really great for me for a long time, and helped me loads, but in the later years of our work together as without my really noticing it much she got very old indeed, and a bit sentimental, our relationship became a little chummier than it really should have, and the way she handled me with regard to the retirement was very clumsy.  That was highly traumatic because she had become rather a mother figure for me and this of course triggered all kinds of crap from blah blah blah etc you know.  Fortunately, before she left, she helped me find a new therapist I felt comfortable with, but who had not become too sensitive to my pain to be able to properly challenge my notion that anger was a harmful waste of my energy.  The new therapist refused me the luxury of denying my anger towards my former therapist.  I was able to successfully navigate processing that anger, and that emboldened me a tiny bit to start on the rest of it.  But only a tiny bit, and only to start, because, well, at the end of the day my former therapist is a lovely and compassionate woman who is only human, who gave me exactly what I needed for my healing process for many years and ultimately did right by me even if the end was rocky, and even the most damaged ME that lives in here can't continue to believe she abandoned me because she didn't care.  So processing that anger was only very slightly risky, whereas the rest of it...Oy.

I'm trying to venture out of my own threads a little bit and try to engage with others on the forum, but I'm scared.  I fear that whatever I say will be the wrong thing, or will be taken the wrong way, or will be perceived as insincere, so I say little or nothing.  I'm not sure how to deal with that.  It's probably what ultimately wrecked my interactions with the last Internet group I was part of, in an overcorrection from years ago when I just barrelled in and said whatever I wanted to say without knowing any of the unspoken rules.

Relating to other humans is so, so difficult when pretty much everything in the world triggers some kind of trauma reaction.

It's ok to comment and be supportive. And share your thoughts. Just remember we are here to encourage not berate.  So if you have a thought or perspective that might help somehow put it out there.  You never know it might be just what that person needs to hear at that moment. :hug:

Quote from: Tee on June 28, 2019, 02:58:32 PM
It's ok to comment and be supportive. And share your thoughts. Just remember we are here to encourage not berate.  So if you have a thought or perspective that might help somehow put it out there.  You never know it might be just what that person needs to hear at that moment. :hug:

Thank you, Tee. That is really so kind and helpful. I will work on feeling safe to do that.

The other problem with trying to engage with the rest of the forum is that after having been alone with this forever without even knowing what it was, reading all this stuff is kind of overwhelming.  I'm so off balance. 

I'm going on a five day cruise tomorrow and it will be great timing to take a break from cogitating.  No devices for five days, which will be awesome.  I was going to bring a notebook in my luggage in case I wanted to write, but that's just pressure and an invitation to wrapped up in my own head.  I used to draw and paint as a kid before the burden of my mother's desire for her unwanted child to be a prodigy at something stamped out all my confidence, and I want to experiment with getting back to that.  So I'm going to bring coloured pencils and drawing paper instead. 

That's awesome have fun! :cheer:

Cruise was awesome, if also physically exhausting.  Now I'm at home and flailing to get back to my routines.  I'm ornery and scattered and my body is out of sync with all the good stuff I do my best to impose on it day in and day out to fumble and grasp towards something loosely labelled "health."  I took actually pretty darned good care of myself on the ship and my food indulgences were very moderate compared to past vacations, but then the vacation laxness with regard to food spilled over into yesterday, the first day at home, and now I'm teetering on the precipice of utter food-behaviour chaos.  This must not happen.

I have already made a decision to take care of myself by getting back to a sleeping schedule, working out with my strength trainer on our regular day next week, and not scuttling the rest of July by going to see OP too far away too late at night.  Even though I so, so long to see them and I so crave that particular hug.  And fear their woundedness when I say No.

Welcome home, glad your cruise was awesome. Wondering if you had time to do some drawing with your pencils.

Quote from: Three Roses on July 06, 2019, 04:14:55 PM
Welcome home, glad your cruise was awesome. Wondering if you had time to do some drawing with your pencils.

Thank you for asking about that, TR!  I didn't do any drawing on the cruise.  I tried to do some this morning, sat on the front stoop and tried to draw some flowers, but it was really hard for me to loosen up and stop worrying about how it looks stupid and I don't know how to see.  I miss the class I took for six weeks because going there meant I HAD to do it even if I didn't feel like I could, and the teacher did a good job of creating a positive and supportive atmosphere that made it easier to overcome my fear of not being good enough.  I look forward to taking more classes with her but I don't know when she'll be offering them again.  I wish I didn't have so much anxiety around drawing and painting because I really want to do it.  I feel like maybe if I could get through all the pain and reticence something good could come out.

Bach, glad you were able to enjoy your cruise.

I feel especially lonely lately because I was recently kicked out of a chat group I was part of in one form or another for 15 years.  I wasn't really told what I'd done to deserve that, but I do have some history with one member of the group that apparently was not left in the past as I'd believed it was.  Honestly, I kind of stopped really belonging in that group when it moved on from its original form all those years ago when it started as a community a bit like this and went onto Facebook, but it hurt a lot that they would just get rid of me without even giving me a hearing after all these years, completely contrary to what had always been discussed as the informal but essential ground rules of the group. 

I found out about Complex PTSD as a result of this rejection, so I'm looking at this as yet another painful but necessary step in my growth as I seek to fix my broken self, in a life where all lessons have been cataclysmic and painful, but all so far withstood and learned from as I stay in the fight.

 :hug: :grouphug:

 :hug: :hug: to you Bach.

That's one reason I love this forum. Nothing ever happens as far as moderating posts or people that isn't clearly spelled out in the Guidelines. Makes me feel safe, or at least as safe as I can feel. 😉

Tee, notalone, Blueberry, Three Roses :heythere: 

Thank you for your replies in my threads.  I'm still working through the renewed/exacerbated fear (terror, really) of connecting with anyone in light of my frightening new understandings of my life's fundamental dilemma, but I so appreciate your presence and compassion.   

Having clearly spelled out guidelines is terrifying in its own way, because I so fear that I will misunderstand something, or be misunderstood.  I often feel that there is simply no way for me to guard against that no matter what efforts I or the other party bring to the table.  Another thing I guess I just have to find a way to live with.

Today is a really bad day.  I sent the letter to PP via email on Saturday night, and I felt good about it all weekend.  But then this morning they sent me a text in which they did not acknowledge anything I said in the email at all, except to tell me that they think my "travel logic is faulty," because blah blah, but it's my choice.  So I explained in a reply text why the blah blah part matters, included reassurance of wanting to see them, and restated the boundary.  To which I got a terse reply of "Fine."  I know that "Fine" in PP's voice.  I can hear them saying it in my head every time I think about it.  OH HAI trauma reaction.  But I am leaving it alone.  I will not respond.  I will not engage.  Most of all, I will not try to placate.  PP can be angry if they want, and they can get over it, or not. 

I'll wait.  Over here, with my trauma reaction.

I MUST take care of myself today.  I have not yet eaten or taken supplements today and I really need to go do that.  But I don't want to.  Not yet, anyway.  Maybe soon.

QuoteI am leaving it alone.  I will not respond.  I will not engage.  Most of all, I will not try to placate.  OP can be angry if they want, and they can get over it, or not. 

:applause:

In recovery groups, the word "fine" is translated as f'd up, insecure, neurotic and emotional.  ;D

Quote from: Three Roses on July 08, 2019, 06:05:25 PM

QuoteI am leaving it alone.  I will not respond.  I will not engage.  Most of all, I will not try to placate.  PP can be angry if they want, and they can get over it, or not. 

:applause:

In recovery groups, the word "fine" is translated as f'd up, insecure, neurotic and emotional.  ;D

That's PP, all right. 

And me.

Hey, that thing where I'm getting a trauma reaction from hearing them say "Fine" in my head, is that an emotional flashback?

Quote from: Bach on July 08, 2019, 05:53:04 PM
Having clearly spelled out guidelines is terrifying in its own way, because I so fear that I will misunderstand something, or be misunderstood.  I often feel that there is simply no way for me to guard against that no matter what efforts I or the other party bring to the table. 

Here you won't be thrown out for misunderstanding something or being misunderstood. Kizzie or I pm you explaining something you may have done wrong first of all. If the behaviour persists, Kizzie will move up to a warning. Some members do get banned, but not without advance notice that something is amiss!

Feeling that there is "simply no way for me to guard against that no matter what efforts I ... bring to the table" sounds as if it might be something out of your past, an emotional flashback (EF).

QuoteHey, that thing where I'm getting a trauma reaction from hearing them say "Fine" in my head, is that an emotional flashback?

I think yes! Here's some more info on EFs, if you want - http://pete-walker.com/flashbackManagement.htm it's long but def worth it. At the bottom are some things to do to counteract an EF.  :hug:

Quote from: Bach on July 08, 2019, 05:53:04 PM
Today is a really bad day.  I sent the letter to OP via email on Saturday night, and I felt good about it all weekend.  But then this morning they sent me a text in which they did not acknowledge anything I said in the email at all, except to tell me that they think my "travel logic is faulty," because blah blah, but it's my choice.  So I explained in a reply text why the blah blah part matters, included reassurance of wanting to see them, and restated the boundary.  To which I got a terse reply of "Fine."  I know that "Fine" in OP's voice.  I can hear them saying it in my head every time I think about it. 

Unfortunately this is fairly typical.  :hug: :hug:  :grouphug:

:applause: :applause: :applause:  :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: for deciding not to engage, not to respond!

I understand and empathise with not wanting to take supplements or eating after making such huge steps forward, especially steps that have to do with boundaries. I struggle with it a lot as well. Unfortunately it's a bit of self-sabotage. Sometimes it helps me to divide up those tasks. e.g. Take one supplement, then see if I can take the next a bit later. And self-praise! Yay! I took my first supplement today!!

Trauma reaction to the way somebody is saying "Fine" in your head? Yes, that definitely could be an EF.

We are here for you.  :grouphug:

Quote from: Three Roses on July 08, 2019, 06:27:45 PM

QuoteHey, that thing where I'm getting a trauma reaction from hearing them say "Fine" in my head, is that an emotional flashback?

I think yes! Here's some more info on EFs, if you want - http://pete-walker.com/flashbackManagement.htm it's long but def worth it. At the bottom are some things to do to counteract an EF.  :hug:

Thank you for the link, Three Roses.  The article was interesting and helpful.  It brought an important question to my mind, though, one that I would prefer not to deal with but will have to, which is the question of explaining CPTSD to people like PP, especially because they clearly suffer from it, too.

Quote from: Blueberry on July 08, 2019, 06:34:37 PM

Quote from: Bach on July 08, 2019, 05:53:04 PM
Today is a really bad day.  I sent the letter to PP via email on Saturday night, and I felt good about it all weekend.  But then this morning they sent me a text in which they did not acknowledge anything I said in the email at all, except to tell me that they think my "travel logic is faulty," because blah blah, but it's my choice.  So I explained in a reply text why the blah blah part matters, included reassurance of wanting to see them, and restated the boundary.  To which I got a terse reply of "Fine."  I know that "Fine" in PP's voice.  I can hear them saying it in my head every time I think about it. 

Unfortunately this is fairly typical.  :hug: :hug:  :grouphug:

:applause: :applause: :applause:  :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: for deciding not to engage, not to respond!

I understand and empathise with not wanting to take supplements or eating after making such huge steps forward, especially steps that have to do with boundaries. I struggle with it a lot as well. Unfortunately it's a bit of self-sabotage. Sometimes it helps me to divide up those tasks. e.g. Take one supplement, then see if I can take the next a bit later. And self-praise! Yay! I took my first supplement today!!

Trauma reaction to the way somebody is saying "Fine" in your head? Yes, that definitely could be an EF.

We are here for you.  :grouphug:

Thank you so much for being here.  I'm a trainwreck today.  But I did manage to eat a little bit and take the supplements an hour or so ago.  Now I think I'll go outside and pull a few weeds, try to give my little beets some breathing room.

Just in case anyone noticed, I did change OP to PP in my threads everywhere I could.  PP is a better abbreviation for them with regard to what it stands for in my head.  I know my going back and changing it wherever I could is a little bit loony, but  :Idunno:

Just because I'm a little slow on the abbreviations what does OP and PP stand for?  Some of them I get I eventually some my head just won't figure out without help. :Idunno:
But it's all good to change things to make them the way you want it. :thumbup:

Quote from: Tee on July 09, 2019, 01:36:32 AM
Just because I'm a little slow on the abbreviations what does OP and PP stand for?  Some of them I get I eventually some my head just won't figure out without help. :Idunno:
But it's all good to change things to make them the way you want it. :thumbup:

:yeahthat:

Quote from: Bach on July 08, 2019, 09:06:08 PM
  But I did manage to eat a little bit and take the supplements an hour or so ago.  Now I think I'll go outside and pull a few weeds, try to give my little beets some breathing room.

:applause: for self care.

Sorry about the abbreviation thing.  I was having some serious brain problems today.  PP stands for "Problem Person."  Originally, I was using the letters OP to indicate that person because I didn't want to use names, but then I changed it because I think OP stands for something else?  And also, Problem Person made more sense to me.  I'm sorry for being confusing.  I was very confused and in a lot of pain today; standing up for myself, setting boundaries, neither engaging nor backing down, but also having a zillion trauma reactions or emotional flashbacks or whatever they were happening to me.  It was a rough day.

The Problem Person is an long-term important friendship in my life that has in many ways been very beneficial to me, but in which unfortunately are also duplicated many of the dynamics of my relationship with my mother.  We are in a pretty bad place at the moment.  My posts here and in the Letters of Recovery subforum over the last few days have been about a situation with Problem Person that I have handled like a BOSS but which is taking a toll on me.  Thank Goodness it is FINALLY time for bed, hope I can sleep tonight! 

Thanks again for being here, all.  This thread really helped me today.  It was really hard but I managed to get through without doing anything self-destructive.  I even made some positive efforts.  Today was actually super-successful even though it felt like this:  :fallingbricks: :fallingbricks: :fallingbricks: :stars: :fallingbricks: :fallingbricks: :fallingbricks:

 :grouphug: good for you Bach!  Life is hard!  Glad you didn't lose ground today.   :hug: :grouphug:

Hope your day is better tomorrow!  :hug:

Trigger warning.  References to severe neglect, drug use, past suicidal ideation, and past self-harm (explicit).




(Did I do that right?)


NOTE:  I wrote the following early this morning after waking up from short sleep and thinking that it would be a terrible day.  I feel a little weird about it now because it exposes a great deal, but I got what I needed out of writing it, which was the will not to just give in and have the bad day.   Now after a workout with my strength trainer I have a somewhat more positive outlook and am going out to do some errands, so I'm going to post it here as a reminder of how I am finally starting to get on top of coping methods.  I probably will not need that pain pill today, although I reserve the choice.

QuoteWell here I am ready to face another day.  Sort of ready.  Maybe ready.  I didn't sleep enough last night and I have gut pain this morning.  I'm proud of myself for standing up to Problem Person and not sacrificing my physical needs to please them, but still I get sick from it.  I am so tired of this struggle.  Later today I might take the percocet I resisted taking yesterday.  I try not to take them because I don't tolerate medications of any kind well at all, and of course opioids are especially dodgy for a bad gut (thanks Mom for starving me when I was an infant, that malformed digestive tract is the gift that keeps taking!), but sometimes I can't turn my brain off any other way and a little narcotic haze and bad TV are an indulgence I can't deny myself. 

It's really early in the day for me to already be thinking about medicating with anything other than the usual, but I suppose I can count it as a victory that I don't have the death-wishing loop in my head.  The death-wishing loop was almost constant earlier in my life, but ever since I discovered and started treating my digestive illness about 10 years ago, it is less prevalent.  I call it the death-wishing loop now instead of suicidal ideation, because I never think seriously about committing suicide anymore.  Now on a bad day instead of having the intrusive thoughts  of ways to commit suicide (described below), I will have a loop of one of these phrases: "I can't do this anymore" or "I don't want to be here anymore" or "I want to die" or "I wish I was dead."  Which one of those phrases it is depends on how bad the day is.  So, you know, bad enough, but nothing like how it used to be.  I used to have a terrible and almost constant battle in my head between thoughts about killing myself and fear of death.  I would have intrusive thoughts of shooting myself in the head or of opening a bottle of pills and pouring them all into my mouth or of jumping in front of a bus.  These were all cartoony and unrealistic thoughts, but very painful, especially as they would provoke my fear of death, and I would feel horribly trapped between my desire to end my pain, my fear of dying, and my small but persistent belief that it was still not too late for me to heal and have a real life someday.  I went through a phase of cutting myself to relieve that trapped feeling.  Even when I did that, my inability to surrender was evident.  I always cut myself very carefully, sterilising the blade before I used it, cutting mindfully and deliberately and only on fleshy areas of my body so as to make sure not to accidentally seriously injure myself, cleaning the wounds afterward (With rubbing alcohol.  That way, I got the most pain release for the least amount of physical damage).  I don't do that anymore.  Thank Goodness.  There are certain destructive behaviours I used to regularly engage in that I still miss and still struggle to stay on top of, but not that.  I haven't cut myself in 12 years and now the thought of it repels me instead of attracting me.  I'm kind of horrified right now, thinking for the first time in a very long time about how a part of me used to romanticise it.  So obviously, change is possible, and my belief that somehow I can some day be well continues its confounding persistence even when I am at my most discouraged.

I'm not sure whether that belief is something inherent in me, or whether it comes from my Partner of almost 30 years, a fundamentally positive person who met me during a brief healthy time in my life in my late 20s and no matter the * I put them through since has never given up our relationship or on the idea that I can be well.  I'm pretty sure I'd be dead by now if I had not had such a caring and supportive Partner.  Aside from all the other challenges I would have navigating this world on my own, without them I would not have had anyone to try to get well for.  I guess it would be better if I was able to try to get well for my own sake, but there's really almost nothing that I can do without the motivation of pleasing someone else.  Sometimes I have resented my Partner for keeping me alive, but here I still am.  I love them very much, even though they are much bigger and stronger and heartier than I am and often don't know how to handle me (physically) as gently as I wish they could.

Yes, you totally did that right! (You even included a wide gap between paragraphs which is great to do because then no one catches words or phrases with peripheral vision. 👍) I knew what I would be reading, and read it anyway. I'm delighted at your ability to begin opening up here on the forum, and saddened by the difficulties you've been through.

You've been through tremendous difficulties and have coped the only way you were able to. Your strength and determination are admirable and inspiring!  :applause:

Hugs :grouphug:

Quote from: Bach on July 09, 2019, 03:17:03 PM
NOTE:  I wrote the following early this morning after waking up from short sleep and thinking that it would be a terrible day.  I feel a little weird about it now because it exposes a great deal, but I got what I needed out of writing it, which was the will not to just give in and have the bad day.   Now after a workout with my strength trainer I have a somewhat more positive outlook and am going out to do some errands, so I'm going to post it here as a reminder of how I am finally starting to get on top of coping methods.  I probably will not need that pain pill today, although I reserve the choice.

:cheer: Several good, strong, positive choices.

I don't know whether this needs a trigger warning or not because some of it was written with fore- and afterthought, and some of it is raw real-time brain data spewed out as I experienced a very intense, painful and frightening emotional flashback.  There are no graphic details of anything specific in it but I'm sort of governing my trigger warnings by how much it scares me to post, and posting this scares the you know what out of me.  But it feels really important, and the urge to erase it and ignore that it happened feels really unhealthy, so here it is.

QuoteEvery day, another small or large thing crashes into place.  I found myself into a traumatic meltdown as a result of thinking that I will FINALLY go get a haircut and finding out that the person I expected to be able to go to is now working somewhere too far away for me to drive to.  This is a much bigger deal than it seems like it should be because I have some extreme trust issues regarding haircuts.  It started with a small thing clicking that I knew right away would be a problem, and then I saw clearly what I was doing in how I was speaking out loud to myself as parent-me tried to hustle the various child-me's into not freaking out and continuing with the plan to go to the swimming pool.  Now I meant to just sit down and write calmly about this but OMG HELLO SEVERE AND OBVIOUS EMOTIONAL FLASHBACK.  Not just to the specific childhood injury with regard to the haircut, but also to the first time I remember having an emotional flashback as an adult, even though I didn't know what it was at the time.  It was in 2006.  I will probably write about it eventually, but not now. 

Okay, okay, thank goodness I know what's happening right now because it's TERRIFYING and I am freaking out in various parts of myself but I am also keeping touch with the whole self that has the coping methods and calming strategies.  It's strange how part of me, which must be the "observing ego" that K often mentioned, is sitting close to but still outside of this.  I'm calming down a little right now, but my heart is still racing and I'm starting to feel the adrenaline-sick.  I know this feeling, and I know that it passes.  I'm not about to have a heart attack, or to tear my head off my shoulders and roll it like a bowling ball.  My Person is at the gym, but will be back soon.  I didn't get to go to the swimming pool like I wanted to (hijacked that effort with a completely offhand thought as I carelessly twisted up my hair to pin above my head to keep it out of the water that "Man, it's raggedy.  It really does need a trim.  It's been how long...a year and a half?), but that's okay.  Maybe I can even still go if I calm down enough and rethink my plan for the next few hours, but if not, that's okay too.  Calm now.  Calm.  Take some deep breaths.
Turn the radio down.  Take some more deep breaths.  Hug the little one.  Oh, and notice but don't be afraid of all the aftershocks of realising that all this happened when (we) were TRYING TO GO TO THE SWIMMING POOL.

 :grouphug:

I'm sorry it is so hard. I know you said it to yourself, but maybe it will help to hear it from someone else, this will pass. You won't feel like this forever.

I survived today with only a little more medication than usual,only a morsel of narcotic, a small and very contained food binge, and no letting missing Problem Person and wondering if they're mad at me trick me into retraumatising myself by doing something stupid like texting and then feeling stupid and bad and wrong and pathetic and end up making the situation between us even worse when I can't get the reassurance I want.

Quote from: notalone on July 11, 2019, 01:00:04 AM
I'm sorry it is so hard. I know you said it to yourself, but maybe it will help to hear it from someone else, this will pass. You won't feel like this forever.

It helps very much. Thank you. All responses in this thread are so appreciated. I don't know how I would be surviving all this horrifying new information without the support. To all, thank you  :grouphug: :grouphug:

Glad you made it through :grouphug:

Imagine a life in which you don't freak out and get adrenaline sick wondering if the world is about to come crashing down on your head just because someone in the next room gets frustrated and yells at a fly they're trying to swat.  :stars:

Right :doh:

This grinding brain is starting to get to me. I'm doing so well in so many ways, understanding so much and taking care of myself instead of running away into self-destructiveness, but even the fact of doing so well is triggering me. The constant low level trauma reactions are starting to wear me down. I wish I could get a break.

 :hug: remember to breathe and give yourself a some grace.  These are the hardest things for me to do for myself too.  But what my T keeps telling me. Good luck Bach!  Be kind to yourself!

My brother is out of town with my nephew and my sister-in-law texted to ask me to babysit my niece on Thursday afternoon. I love my brother and his family and I like to say Yes whenever possible if I''m asked to help with the kids, but Thursday is my busiest day with strength training in the morning and therapy in the afternoon. I've been doing some very interesting and helpful stuff in therapy since I was thoroughly traumatised in early June when I was kicked out of my group and found out about complex ptsd, then had to stay alone in the house for a few days when My Person had to go out of town for a business trip, but it's incredibly draining. It's six weeks now that I've been in this state, coping like a boss and not giving in to a self-destructive spiral but needing everything little bit of strength I have to keep functioning.  So after much thought I decided to tell my sister-in-law that I would do it if she couldn't find anyone else, but she should find someone else if she could. She's fine with that but said that my niece will be disappointed. That made me really want to just decide to do it, but it's a long drive to a hot city where it's hard to find parking and just thinking about it exhausts me. I restrained myself from saying "You know what, i'll Just do it." Then a while later she texted that she found someone else. I said I was sorry to disappoint my niece and she said it's okay, she'll be fine. But I feel guilty and ashamed. When I tell My Person I'm not going to do it, they will make me feel guilty too. They thought I should say Yes and just do it even though it's hard. My Person understands as best they can but some things they don't really get because they are big and athletic and physically strong and don't have trauma. I'm soooooo tired of everything being so hard.

Bach you did what was best for you, sometimes that's important.  You were there if you needed but you weren't needed.  Don't feel guilty or shame.  It was good self care.

I'm on vacation with my kids and part of me would rather be at home in bed. 

You will have other times with your niece that you will be able to help and spend time with her.   :grouphug:

Thank you for the support and reassurance, Tee.  I felt really bad about it last night and had to fight against letting it get to me, but this morning I felt confident that I did the right thing, and less guilty about it.  I know there will be other times, when I will have more strength and stamina and thus it won't be a choice between self-care and being there for my family, but only if I do exactly what I'm doing now, choosing the self-care when I really need it.  I have to learn to worry a lot less about whether people are thinking badly of me and saying it's okay when really it isn't.  I know that when I say No, it's because I really need to, but I always worry that other people are angry and thinking it's because I'm lazy, selfish and unreliable.

It helps that My Person actually did get it and didn't make me feel bad at all.  Also, my brother called today from his trip, and we had a nice little talk.  I think and hope that I'm coming out of this hyperreactive phase I've been in for the past six weeks. 

Trigger warning:  My narcissistic mom did a lot of weird stuff to/with me.  References to physical abuse, suicide.












Now I know why I tend to flip out in the middle of the summer when it gets really hot and humid.  This morning I had a frantic spate of manic activity figuring out how we're going to get through the super-hot and humid weather expected in our area in the next several days, and another one of those connections fell into place.  My mother loved the heat and was obsessed with tanning, so she had to get to the beach or the swimming pool immediately after lunch if the sun was out.  I had to go with her even if others in the family weren't going.  We would stay for hours and hours.  She used to tell a story about how when I was a baby, a doctor told her that I was sensitive to the sun so she should be careful about my sun exposure, and she said "No daughter of mine is going to be sensitive to the sun!" and proceeded to take me out into the sun whenever and however she wanted because she didn't see any obvious consequences.  To my mother, basically, anything that didn't immediately make me sick or kill me was okay. 

I came to understand several years ago that a part of her hoped very much that I would die, so that she could get attention for the tragic loss of her child AND be rid of me at the same time.  That has never changed, either.  For a good deal of my life, one of my primary motivations to stay alive and heal myself instead of committing suicide was to deprive my mother of the satisfaction.  She would have LOVED playing the tragically bereaved mother of a daughter who committed suicide, "such a bright and talented girl" out of one side of her mouth and "I always knew there was something wrong with her!" out of the other.  Only by dying could I have ever made my mother love me.  I think the only reason she didn't keep squeezing that one time when I was somewhere around...11? that she put her hands around my throat and choked me until I started blacking out was that at the last moment, her self-protective instinct kicked in over her rage at how I had stolen my father's love from her and reminded her subconscious that MOTHER MURDERS CHILD was not the narrative she was looking for. 

This isn't the story I meant to tell here.  I was going to talk about having noticed over the past many years that I get especially unstable when the weather is very hot and humid, and especially in the month of July.  I don't know why July, was July maybe the month that the stepbrothers visited?  Anyway, in the past I assumed that my problems with hot and humid weather were purely physiological, but lately I have come to realise that, as with everything, there are big reasons that dealing with intense summer weather is an area of trauma and triggers.  I was going to reflect on how being hustled off to the beach or pool to bake in the relentless sun all day, do my best to enjoy what there was to enjoy and try to find ways to hide from the sun dealing with my mother and her manic sun-worship must have been an area of trauma for me then that makes heat and sun hard for me to deal with now, and maybe mention that I've been in the process of taking summer back since I started gardening, but this is enough of this kind of thing for now.  I've surmounted the heat-panic and need to get on with my day.

An evocative post. Thank you for sharing this today.

Bach I hope that you find some peaceful shade in the coming hot days.  :hug:

Thank you so much for being here and for replying, Three Roses and Tee.  I worry that I am maybe too much.  I don't want to abuse this space or anyone's patience or psyche with my tales of woe, but there's so much bubbling up lately.

You are not too much.  :hug:

I think all of Us here have received that message throughout our lives. You won't hear it here.  :grouphug:

Hi Bach,
I'm glad you're writing in your Journal and I agree with Three Roses, that you are NOT too much.  Sending you a hug, if that's ok - and just wanted to say I'm glad you're here.   :hug:
Hope  :)

 :hug: I'd write more but I'm going through alot right now too so all I can manage at times is a hug so you know I've read it and am here to show support. :hug:

Quote from: Three Roses on July 18, 2019, 03:03:20 PM
You are not too much.  :hug:

I think all of Us here have received that message throughout our lives. You won't hear it here.  :grouphug:

:yeahthat:

You are definitely not too much!  :hug: :hug:

Sometimes the most helpful thing can be to describe what happened in the past, what the abuse or neglect was. Most usually somebody on here will understand because of having gone through something similar. Validation of our feelings and experience is very important because we often weren't validated growing up in our FOOs.

Another very rough day. I had therapy today, and talked about the emotional flashbacks I kept having yesterday after what happened when I wrote about my heat panic. Right now they are not even flashbacks, it's more like a part of me is fully living and feeling as Little B. Little B's feelings are tiny and sad and unaware of even the concept of hope, feelings of blankness and loneliness and lack of attachment, of not mattering and almost not even existing when I wasn't being casually traumatised by the careless cruelty of my scapegoating family. Of not belonging. Never, no matter what, belonging.  That's where my emotional self is stuck right now. It kept me awake last night. I tried some calming strategies but gave up pretty quickly and klonopinned myself to sleep when it was clear they weren't working. I don't sleep well on drugs, but it's better than lying awake for hours smothering under that sad little B feeling. I'm kind of afraid the same thing will happen tonight. Hopefully not. I'd better get my klonopin scrip renewed though. I only use it when I absolutely have to, but I've been having to a lot lately.

Lovely people, all of you, thank you for the understanding  and reassurance and hugs. They are difficult to tolerate right now but it would be even more difficult to tolerate living through this without your kindness. :grouphug:

Kind thoughts to you, dear Bach. Sorry you're having a hard time rn. Here's a gentle  :hug: for you if you want it.

Quote from: Blueberry on July 19, 2019, 02:57:25 AM

Quote from: Three Roses on July 18, 2019, 03:03:20 PM
You are not too much.  :hug:

I think all of Us here have received that message throughout our lives. You won't hear it here.  :grouphug:

:yeahthat:

You are definitely not too much!  :hug: :hug:

Sometimes the most helpful thing can be to describe what happened in the past, what the abuse or neglect was. Most usually somebody on here will understand because of having gone through something similar. Validation of our feelings and experience is very important because we often weren't validated growing up in our FOOs.

:yeahthat:
This is a place to share and you are accepted. I'm sorry you are dealing with flashbacks and feelings of loneliness. Sending you a hug; as much as you can tolerate and that feels safe to you.

 :hug:I hope your day has gotten better.

Putting this here for accountability and reminder: When I'm medicating more than three or four times a day and starting first thing in the morning that is crossing over from "medicinal" to "compulsion" and it's time to dial it back.


Love and good wishes to all on this sweltering Sunday  :heythere:

I had a good weekend up to a point.  On Saturday morning I was at the swimming pool, and realised that for the first time in several days I was able to think about myself as a child without getting upset.  Then yesterday, I had a fun day with My Person that I really enjoyed, and I was feeling good about myself, so of course I ended up doing something to undermine myself.  I usually do not allow myself to eat after about 8pm, or 9pm at the absolute most occasional latest, but last night some time after 9pm I gave in to a snack attack.  I've been doing unusually well with avoiding that lately, and it hasn't even been that difficult, so I think I sort of thought I could get away with it, or maybe I just didn't really think at all.  I woke up out of sorts, a totally predictable result.  So I was girding myself to deal with not feeling very well and making a plan to get immediately back on track with my responsible eating so I didn't spiral, but my seeking of mental and physical health was complicated by a phone call from Problem Person.  I was calm and non-reactive most of the way through that conversation even though Problem Person did that thing again where they asked me to do basically the same thing I refused to do last time and presented the same arguments for why I should, as if dismissing entirely that there was any validity to the calm, unemotional and non-contentious explanation I gave last time of why I had set that boundary.  But then Problem Person started pulling another one of the weird little head trips that I have sworn to myself not to let them get away with next time they tried it, and so I had to jump in right away to set that boundary.  Fortunately, I've had it in my mind for a while, so I knew what I wanted to say and was able to deliver it calmly despite the sick anxious adrenaline surge.  I then managed to get off the phone without getting too deep into the urge to fawn/placate/seek reassurance.  But the adrenaline from the trauma reaction messed me up pretty badly, as it does, and I had to get out of the house because My Person was there and I just could NOT with them right then.  My Person is awesome.  I love and depend on them and would not still be here without them, but sometimes they are just too big and whole for some of the jagged little broken parts of me.  No one person can be everything for someone as fragmented as I am.

Anyway, I got out of the house and did some errands which was good, and then got myself an iced coffee, and then it was time for therapy.  It's talk therapy.  I go twice a week, and it doesn't really feel like enough, but it's also awful, so draining and painful with all this new light being shed on old darknesses.  I started out by talking about how I had fallen down on the responsible self-care job with the semi-binge last night (it was really very modest for a binge, there was a time when those amounts of those foods would have been "I did pretty well with not bingeing today!"), and ended up talking about my mother not liking to see me happy when I was a child.  So after therapy, I got My Person to go grocery shopping with me because I still did not want to be in the house.  The grocery shopping was weirdly soothing, and I thought maybe I'd be okay after that, but no, as soon as we were back in the house, more anxiety and discomfort and fighting to keep it together, and succeeding at keeping it together, but ugh.  Enough already.  I am so tired.

 :hug: hang in there you can do it Bach. :hug:

Tee :hug: Thank you :hug:

Bach, I hear that your anxiety and distress is frequent (almost continuous?) and a battle to keep under control. So hard and exhausting.
Good job keeping calm and keeping your boundaries with your problem person. That is a big deal.

Quote from: notalone on July 23, 2019, 01:38:46 AM
Bach, I hear that your anxiety and distress is frequent (almost continuous?) and a battle to keep under control. So hard and exhausting.
Good job keeping calm and keeping your boundaries with your problem person. That is a big deal.

Thank you, notalone.  Problem Person came at me again last night and again I stayed calm and did not engage.  It's so hard, but I have no choice because I love Problem Person too much to allow them to continue to hurt me.  For many, many years, I gave Problem Person a lot of slack because I understood their damage and because even when we were both going through bad stuff they still at least did their best to listen and communicate when it really mattered.  But last year Problem Person and I had an incident in which we crossed each other up worse than we ever have in 25 years with what I now know were trauma reactions, and nothing has been the same since.  Problem Person no longer wants to communicate with me, they just want me to serve their needs and to take it as rejection and blame me when I cannot.  I guess now Problem Person has been consumed by the trauma and narcissism and has lost the part of themself that used to be willing to seek a better way to live and to treat their loved ones.  Problem Person has always been a problem person, but they used to also be a Sweet Person, sometimes a Helpful Person, and always a Person Who Was Worth Dealing With Even Though It Was Sometimes Painful.  I feel so sad remembering and missing that.

I'm sorry for your sadness at the loss of how this relationship felt in the past.  :hug:

I heard a great quote today (I'm always quoting someone haha) - anyway, here it is, from Karamo Brown of the Netflix show QE:

QuoteDo an inventory on the people in your life, because some of your Day One friends have been hating on you since Day Two. Invest your time in people who love and support you. Remember, it's about quality, not quantity. ~ Karamo Brown.

Bravo to you for holding your ground and acting in your best interests.  :applause:

Thank you, 3R.  That's a good quote.  I'm pretty sure that what led to my getting kicked out of my group in June resulted from a Day 2 hater.  I'm really confused about that, though, because honestly, getting kicked out of the group was useful for me in a way that simply drifting away from it wouldn't have been, and I'm getting mighty sick of having to learn things about how to get along in the world by being stomped all over.

I'm not doing well today.  I didn't get enough sleep and I'm full of anxiety and inescapable dark thoughts.  I can't even take anything for it, because anything I could take that would effectively quiet my mind now would produce a rebound that will be even worse later.  It's been a while since I was in this bad a state of mind.  I'll survive it of course, but even last week's relentless emotional flashbacks of Little B weren't as hard to deal with as this.  I have to function today and I don't know how I'm going to manage it. 

So hard to function when you feel like you just want to put a cover over your head and stay that way all day. Supporting you through this tough time.

I can't speak right now and it hurts.  I need to speak.  But I can't speak.   :sadno: :bawl:

I feel the same hugs :hug:

Tee  :hug: Thank you for being here.

 :grouphug:

You are not able to speak, but I do "hear" that it is really hard. Sending you compassion.

This happens to me too, Bach - need to speak but can't. It's usually one of my first indications I'm in an EF. Pages 42-45 of the book "The Body Keeps The Score" talks more about this. I've attached an image which should be visible after the moderators review it, showing a brain scan image of a brain in an EF.

Happens to me too. I didn't understand why or make the connection with EFs until reading this. You're definitely not alone.

The other day, I found myself thinking "I am really not coping well at all" but then realising that compared to not very long ago at all I'm actually coping amazingly well.  Reflecting on the pretty much unremitting trauma nightmare my life has been since the beginning of June, I realise that I'm probably a good 50% more functional and that have been at least 50% less self-destructive in my various behaviours than I have often been when feeling this bad.  So that's good, right?  Of course it is, but I'm angry that I can be doing this "well" and yet not feel any better at all than I normally would.  Furious, in fact.  I'm sure there's some reason that I should still be encouraged by the way my surprising and sudden surge in trauma has been accompanied by a just as surprising and sudden surge in sheer cope, but I'm not feeling it.  I was sure I would be by now.  Somehow I must stave off the disappointment, sit with the bad feelings and continue with the "responsible self-care" for however long it takes to come out of this, because I do NOT want to do the usual thing of letting the narcissist mother part of me abuse and neglect me just so that any little bit of behavioural improvement I can squeak out after a time of abject self-destruction and suffering will make me feel comparatively better. 

Note to self:  must write out a list of what constitutes responsible self-care.

Thanks very much, all, for the responses to my post about not being able to speak.  3R, the insight about emotional flashbacks and the image you posted were very interesting, but I haven't followed up on any of that in the book or anywhere else because it makes so much sense and I am just sick to death of trying to figure out what to do about emotional flashbacks.  I think I've been in a state of emotional flashback basically constantly since the beginning of June and right now I'm feeling like everything I try to do to make it stop just makes it worse.

Meanwhile, I realised today that I have painted myself into a corner with some of the communication choices I've made in this journal as a result of the beyond hypervigilant state of mind I was in when I first came here.  When I first came here, I had a vague fear that someone I know from somewhere else would be here and would know it was me, and so I made some choices that are limiting me in weird ways.  Everything I've written here has been completely honest, but there are things I've been leaving out for the sake of not feeling too exposed.  Nothing BIG or IMPORTANT or anonymity-compromising, but minor pertinent real-world details that when I look back on what I've written feel glaring in their absence.  It's a thorny problem, because I don't really know how to relax and start including stuff like that without feeling that I'm drawing attention to it.  But I'll finish with a moment of gratitude that this space is here for me to come to at all, even with awkwardness, pain, fear, and limits.

 :hug: :hug: Just want to let you know I read but putting words to feelings is difficult atm.

You are making progress, that I see. It may feel bad to do so, but it's OK to take a break. It's OK to not know the next step. It's OK to make mistakes or to do things imperfectly at first and then want to improve on them later.  :hug:

 :hug:

I think it's great that you were cautious and protective of yourself!  :applause:

Just want you to know, you can share as much or as little as you are comfortable. We understand.  :hug:

I wish I could learn how to stop being triggered by feeling good about myself.  That's the number one most awful thing my mother did to me, messed me up so badly that feeling any kind of self-love is like a self-destruct mechanism.

Blueberry, Tee, 3R, your gentle presences are so appreciated.  Not being alone with it is still unfamiliar and frightening but also has given me a new thread of hope.  I haven't had one of those in a very long time.  Now Job #1 is not getting caught up in the subconscious panic reaction to the thought of a new thread of hope, because of course I do that, too.

Trigger warning:  Some crazy brain matter, and mild references to narcissistic abuse of a child.







I need to write about a weird thing that happens to me where I have moments of sort of being my mother.  Talk about hard to put into words.  Let me see if I can describe this by telling about a recent such moment.

I've mentioned earlier in this journal that my mother was a sun-worshiper.  When I was a kid, I of course assumed that laying in the sun for hours was something she did because she enjoyed it.  I've never enjoyed laying in the sun for long periods of time, but in recent years after reading an article about earthing, I've developed an appreciation for lying on the grass in the sun for maybe 10 or 15 minutes after I swim.  The other day, after swimming, I was lying on my towel on the grass, and the fronts of my legs started to feel uncomfortably hot.  I wanted more earthing time, and there were some clouds, so I thought the sun would go behind one before too long.  So I turned over to relax on my stomach, get a little sun on my back and then be more comfortable when a cloud came.  The sun was really strong, though, and no cloud came, so I started getting uncomfortable again, but for some reason I felt compelled to stay in the sun.  That I HAD to stay in the sun, because it was...Good for me somehow?  I felt that there was some kind of virtue in enduring the sun, and that I MUST NOT move into the shade.  After a few minutes of feeling more and more uncomfortable, something in my head switched and said "What on Earth are you doing? If you don't want to lie in the sun, don't lie in the sun!"  So I did that, but then suddenly I was thinking about my mother lying endlessly in the sun, thinking "Ugh, Mom LOVED that.  Wow, being baked by the sun must have felt as good to her as it feels bad to me", and the horrifying thought occurred to me that maybe she didn't do it because she loved it.  Maybe it WASN'T because it felt good.  And then I remembered:  The tan.  My mother was always concerned with her tan.  Working on her tan.  Coppertone assist.  Equal time spent back and front.  She had to be as tan as possible.  So, like, what, I had MY MOTHER'S emotional flashback?

That's not the first time that has happened, and it's creepy.  It's creepy when it gives me disturbing insights into my own treatment at her hands (like the time that I was changing my wiggly baby niece who I adore and would never dream of hurting, and felt a moment's genuinely spiteful thought and violent impulse towards her when I couldn't get her leg into the onesie, or the time that I found myself thinking about a high-maintenance pet that if they died it would be a win-win because I wouldn't have to take care of them anymore and I could milk the grief for attention).  It's just as creepy when it gives me empathy for her.  Feeling empathy for her makes my skin crawl.  Not because I don't think that it's generally a good thing to have empathy, but because I know that there is no way I could ever express any kind of empathy to my mother without her taking it as a clean-slate absolution of everything she did to protect herself from her own anxiety at my direct expense.  I still remember the time I felt a huge burst of empathy for my mother when she was telling me about a painful social situation she had been in that I could really relate to, and I'm still thankful that we were in the car the time and I couldn't act on my impulse to hug her and validate her.  I can empathise with the fact that her life has been difficult and painful in many of the same ways as mine, and for many of the same reasons, but this is a woman who tried to bond with me over us both having had terrible mothers.  I ASK YOU.  So, yeah, creepy and scary, and I hate my brain.

I have no words to share, no special insights but just wanted you to know you've been heard.  :hug:

 :hug:

I had a dream last night that I need to write down before it gets away so I'm going to do it real quick right now when I don't have time to sit and think really hard about what I'm going to say, and DEFINITELY not time to edit, re-read, analyse.  Write and press Post.

I dreamed that I was at an INXS concert with My Person, except that the band was about to come on and I was supposed to sing with them.  So I knew that I needed to go up on the stage and start singing, but there was some kind of telepathic exchange between me and My Person that alerted me to the fact that I didn't have a microphone.  Then I had a microphone in my hands, it was a very old one that my first partner swiped either intentionally or accidentally from the community college he attended.  I recognised it, and thought I remembered it as having been considered to be a very good microphone, and I thought "Oh, this will do," but I looked up at My Person to say "Here's one, I'll use this!" and he was frowning and shaking his head and wagging his finger.  I thought he was telling me that the microphone wasn't good enough, but then I looked at it and I realised that even though I had a cord, the cord wasn't plugged into the microphone itself, and didn't have the right connecting end on it to be plugged into the house PA.  The houselights were down and the song "What You Need" had started playing.  I knew I was supposed to be up there with a microphone that would work singing it, but just as another idea about what to do...or maybe a better microphone? started to materialise I woke up.

I'll be your groupie.   :grouphug:

Tee  :sunny:  :hug:

The Youngers are confusing and distracting me.  Recently when I started exploring the notion of the Youngers, it seemed like it could be a really helpful and exciting concept.  But now I'm afraid that I might be dabbling in something I shouldn't be trying to do on my own.  I don't think that my therapist really does that stuff per se.  I'm not sure.  She awakened in my mind the possibility of being able to help my present self by remembering the feelings of my child self, but I don't think that was particularly deliberate or purposeful on her part.  Now I'm deep into this concept, because it taps in to my old coping method of writing out my feelings via fictional constructs, and that's exciting to me.  So are the moments I've had lately in which I am trying to deal with something that is stressing me at some level, and I feel myself starting to escalate, then I sort of "hear" which of the Youngers is ready to blow and I'm able to interrupt the escalation by calming the Younger.  But I don't want to lose myself in this, and I don't want to fictionalise my life.  I've always been afraid of that, it's why I stopped writing creatively years ago.  I wonder if I'm messing with something dangerous that will backfire on me.

I get what you're saying.  I'm scared to delve to far into my younger years and inner child work for this reason too.  I've worked for a long time to get back to a functioning level after my dissociation stopped and the rush of overwhelming feeling came back. 

I'm truly afraid to look too much or hard for fear that I'll break though I know there's work to be done there.  I think talking to your T would be first and got most a place to start.  I voices my concerns to mine and she said we will deal with what comes.

Hugs this life have twisted us far before the moment where we stand finding the strength to untangle our way is hard. :hug:

I don't really know what I'm talking about with any of this stuff.  I got some books but I haven't been able to read them.  Pretty much the only thing I've been able to do to help guide me is come here and read people's posts and links.  Today I am just sick and tired and blue, afraid that I've already maxed out on my potential for health and sanity, and I'm able to almost see good things that could be ahead for me if I could figure out how to get there but will just be stuck here forever, using every bit of strength I have to keep from decompensating but just TOO MUCH, always TOO MUCH. 

I talked to my therapist about the stuff with the Youngers and told her I was afraid I was going to make myself even crazier with it, and she said she didn't think I needed to worry about that.  So that's good, I guess.

 :hug: I think it always seems worse in the storm just before the clouds break and sun shines through.  It'll get better Bach keep putting one foot infront of the other.  At least that's what my T keeps telling me. :Idunno: :hug:

Quote from: Tee on August 16, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
:hug: I think it always seems worse in the storm just before the clouds break and sun shines through.  It'll get better Bach keep putting one foot infront of the other.  At least that's what my T keeps telling me. :Idunno: :hug:

Yes, mine too. And I guess  it's working so far? We're both still here, anyway.

I appreciate you being here, Tee, and your lovely gentle support :hug:

I know that sometimes I have to stay still and wait for the world to shift around me before I can step forward again. A  :hug: if that helps.

Bach, just want you to know that you have my support. As much as you are able, take it slowly.

Quote from: Snowdrop on August 16, 2019, 04:00:12 PM
I know that sometimes I have to stay still and wait for the world to shift around me before I can step forward again. A  :hug: if that helps.

Thank you, Snowdrop.  It does.  :hug:

Sometimes just being able to say it and be heard instead of having to keep it inside helps so much with not just giving in and letting it bury me.

Quote from: notalone on August 16, 2019, 05:50:41 PM
Bach, just want you to know that you have my support. As much as you are able, take it slowly.

I'm not very good at taking it slowly.  I guess I have to practise.  I've become aware of where the bulk of my unexplored trauma lies, and I seem to have a couple of Youngers trying to stop me from really going there.  I'm not sure which would be worse, going there or not going there, but I kind of feel like either way I'm on a collision course.  It's really freakin' scary.  I'm scared.  Better go get my laundry now.

Being scared is totally understandable... just take things in your own time and it will get better :)

 :hug:  take it one step at a time. I would recommend trying to work through with aT. :hug:

I hear that you are scared. This (dealing with trauma &/or waiting to deal with trauma) is really scary.

QuoteI've become aware of where the bulk of my unexplored trauma lies, and I seem to have a couple of Youngers trying to stop me from really going there.

Becoming aware of where the trauma lies is massively scary, but it's progress. My experience, in case it's helpful, is that I had missing memories and empty holes where traumas were. For a long time I didn't consciously know there were traumas, and becoming aware of the holes, and what might be in them, was  :aaauuugh:. I found it helpful to take any kind of pressure off my younger self, and give her a lot of comfort, reassurance, and shower her in love. She began to share her experiences at a manageable pace when she felt safe and trusting enough to do so.  :hug:

Quote from: Snowdrop on August 17, 2019, 06:37:24 AM

QuoteI've become aware of where the bulk of my unexplored trauma lies, and I seem to have a couple of Youngers trying to stop me from really going there.

Becoming aware of where the trauma lies is massively scary, but it's progress. My experience, in case it's helpful, is that I had missing memories and empty holes where traumas were. For a long time I didn't consciously know there were traumas, and becoming aware of the holes, and what might be in them, was  :aaauuugh:. I found it helpful to take any kind of pressure off my younger self, and give her a lot of comfort, reassurance, and shower her in love. She began to share her experiences at a manageable pace when she felt safe and trusting enough to do so.  :hug:

Thank you for the encouragement, Snowdrop.  This is especially hard for me right now, because I have trauma from throughout my life that I've been digging up little by little for many years, each time thinking that I've "figured it out" and "will be able to heal now".  This is the latest in an exhausting process of re-evaluating my life with a new therapist and realising that there are areas of major trauma that I haven't dealt with at all, not because I wasn't at least somewhat aware of them but because it's stuff that I've always been willing to dismiss "not that bad" or "my own fault" or "no one's fault" that didn't seem important once I figured out the towering evil of the covert mental and physical abuse I got from my mother.  Most recently, I have realised that I have a whole set of traumatic injuries from after my NM sent me to live with my father and his second family when I was 13 that I have given only the barest head-nod of acknowledgement to, because I was treated so much better at my father's house than I had been at my mother's.  Being sent to live with my father probably saved my life, but now I'm having to understand and accept what an incredibly low standard "better than Mom's" was.  The most extreme and obvious symptoms of my thoroughly neglected physical care were addressed and I was given a modicum of affection and positive attention, but that was really about it.  It's very difficult to reconcile the "saved my life" with the "piled on new and unfamiliar kinds of emotional damage"  :doh: :stars: :fallingbricks:

I'm in so much pain right now.  I have a neck injury that is making my entire upper body hurt and disrupting my sleep, I'm having hormonal issues, and my therapist is on vacation this week.  Whine whine whine.  I am depressed and having the bad thoughts.  I won't do anything stupid, though.  In fact, I won't even neglect my responsibilities and spend the whole day on the couch watching crappy TV the way I want to.  I've certainly gotten better at coping.  Or maybe it's just that My Person is home all day for the summer and I can't fall apart in front of him the way I can when I'm alone.  Sigh.

 :hug: take care of yourself

Bach, I don't hear you whining, I hear you speaking plainly and clearly about the difficulties and pain you went through and are going through. In the midst of our abuse, we were told to "stop complaining, it wasn't that bad,  :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah:". Well, it was bad and harmful and damaging, our abusers just didn't want to face it. You're free here to state the truth in its reality.

I completely agree with 3R.  :hug:

Quote from: Three Roses on August 20, 2019, 02:46:07 PM
Bach, I don't hear you whining, I hear you speaking plainly and clearly about the difficulties and pain you went through and are going through. In the midst of our abuse, we were told to "stop complaining, it wasn't that bad,  :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah: :blahblahblah:". Well, it was bad and harmful and damaging, our abusers just didn't want to face it. You're free here to state the truth in its reality.

:yeahthat: Absolutely. Bach, you are in physical and emotional pain. You are dealing with deep, difficult issues. You deserve to speak and you have the right to be heard.

Thank you for the support, friends  :grouphug:  It was so helpful the other morning to write all that out and be validated, and I ended up having a reasonably good day.

There's something important I said above that I sort of didn't realise I had said, which I now see is going to be a pretty big problem.  My Person has been working at home all summer, and it has been great because it's so much easier to keep up on all my self-care when My Person is here to help me and cheer me up, but starting on Monday he will have to go back to work in the city and I'll be home alone all day again.  I think I kind of haven't noticed the anxiety I have about that because I've been too busy dealing with the anxiety from my therapist being away this week and from my neurotic attempts to avoid acknowledging that her being away is hard for me.  I do have a lot of anxiety about it, though.  I had a weird little stress meltdown about it tonight right before I went to bed, of which the unfortunate result was using too much cannabis and getting myself wired instead of relaxed.  I wish I could more consistently remember not to do that.

I'm such a dang mess.  How am I ever going to heal?  How will it ever not be excruciating to live with this brain in this body? 

Meanwhile, I have to try to breathe and ride out this bad high, with the hopes that it will ease off in time for me to get a decent amount of sleep tonight.
Lots of shame and guilt in here, and I am so very tired of it. 

 :hug: just breathe Bach it'll be ok.   :hug:

Dear Bach, like Tee said, breathe. One moment at a time. I hope you are able to rest.

Last night I drugged the kids with sugar just like mom used to do to me.  Now today they're flopping around in bed all groggy and out of it, and I'm here alone.  My brain is a tiny bit quieter, but I'm depressed.  Not quite the death-wishing voice, but I've got some really bad I-can't-with-this-life syndrome going on today.  I guess the Youngsters are the keepers of all my trauma, but also of all my good stuff too.

 :hug: What is one thing you can do for yourself today that would bring you some comfort? Tea, safe movie, a walk, read a book, listen to music. . . ? If I was near you, I would do some of those things for you. One moment at a time, dear Bach.

Hope you feel better soon Bach. Take care! :)

Hello, friends.  Thank you for being here.  I've been around and appreciating the replies on this thread as well as everything everyone shares here.  It's weird finding out about how so many of my strange little alien-seeming experiences and feelings in life are not so alien at all in the secret worlds of trauma.  It's sometimes scary and sometimes hopeful. 

Trigger Warning:  Mention of early neglect.









Scary right now.  I'm really struggling mood-wise.  I'm functioning vaguely well behaviourally, much better than I usually do when I'm a headspace like this, but I feel awful all the time emotionally unless I'm drugged enough to feel sort of okay or at least numb, and honestly, that sucks too, just in a different way. 

I'm hormonal right now, which is good because it means I can remind myself that it definitely will pass sooner or later and I'm not heading back down into the kind of hole I used to go into before I knew about my somewhat-addressable nutritional and lifestyle problems, but it's bad because it's completely impenetrable.  Even if I do something I feel good about, or something good happens, it will only lift me up for a few minutes, and then I'll drop back down into seeing everything through the lens of the infant in the crib left alone cold, hungry and helpless, whose entire body was built wrong because she wasn't properly fed or cuddled.

Too much pain.  What's my point?  Even My Person told me to stop dwelling on the past yesterday when I was feeling sad thinking about all the things I wanted to do that I never did because I couldn't get it together, and wondering what I might have been if I hadn't been traumatised since birth.

Meanwhile, I am avoiding dealing with Lizzie's pain and disappointment, and the anger and despair of the Teenager who just doesn't &^@#ing have a name, okay?

QuoteEven My Person told me to stop dwelling on the past yesterday when I was feeling sad thinking about all the things I wanted to do that I never did because I couldn't get it together, and wondering what I might have been if I hadn't been traumatised since birth.

Grieving is an important component of healing the past. On page 36 of From Surviving To Thriving, Pete Walker says:

"Grieving is necessary to help us release and work through our pain about the terrible losses of our childhoods. These losses are like the deaths of parts of our selves, and grieving can often initiate their rebirth."

Hang in there.  :hug:

Grieving is one of those counterintuitive things on this road. At least that's been my experience. At first it seems like a roadblock, but given a little time and a lot of patience there often are holes that get one past the temporary pain.

Anxiety being one of our 'normal' reactions, we're then eager for the next wild jump to releasing the past, and when it doesn't happen right away it can seem hopeless. It really does (again just my own experience) seem to come -- those easier times -- but often can seem like it's never going to happen, for real. Then, sometimes even surprisingly, the bad vibes do soften and fade a bit.

That some little itty bit of progress was made might even remain invisible for a while; until one realizes that oh, yeah -- things really have gotten somewhat better (or at least different with more hope built in for the next time it feels bleak). Grieving is okay and it's also okay not feel okay. Things might be healing in spite of immediate feelings (albeit painful ones).

I hope this makes some sense and you'll begin feeling better soon.

QuoteGrieving is one of those counterintuitive things on this road.

I agree with Woodsgnome. Grieving feels overwhelming - then add in all the societal pressure to be a Happy Shiny Person and it makes it doubly difficult to dig down into the loss and pain. Hang in there.  :hug:

Quote from: Bach on August 26, 2019, 02:12:31 PM
Too much pain.  What's my point?  Even My Person told me to stop dwelling on the past yesterday when I was feeling sad thinking about all the things I wanted to do that I never did because I couldn't get it together, and wondering what I might have been if I hadn't been traumatised since birth.

Meanwhile, I am avoiding dealing with Lizzie's pain and disappointment, and the anger and despair of the Teenager who just doesn't &^@#ing have a name, okay?

Bach it is okay for you to feel sad. You have a lot to feel sad about and it doesn't just "go away."
Are you avoiding dealing with Lizzie's pain and disappointment and the anger and despair of the Teenager, or is this not the right time? (As I was told) there is only so much you can do at one time.

Quote from: notalone on August 30, 2019, 03:13:21 AM

Quote from: Bach on August 26, 2019, 02:12:31 PM
Too much pain.  What's my point?  Even My Person told me to stop dwelling on the past yesterday when I was feeling sad thinking about all the things I wanted to do that I never did because I couldn't get it together, and wondering what I might have been if I hadn't been traumatised since birth.

Meanwhile, I am avoiding dealing with Lizzie's pain and disappointment, and the anger and despair of the Teenager who just doesn't &^@#ing have a name, okay?

Bach it is okay for you to feel sad. You have a lot to feel sad about and it doesn't just "go away."
Are you avoiding dealing with Lizzie's pain and disappointment and the anger and despair of the Teenager, or is this not the right time? (As I was told) there is only so much you can do at one time.

I guess it's not the right time.  I think they just wanted to be acknowledged.  They just wanted to know they'll get to speak eventually.  They scare me, but I love them, too, and I love the things they care about.  I suppose I want to live up to them and maybe am not confident that I can do it.

I've been having a rough time lately.  I was in a very low state hormonally for a few weeks, which means no energy for anything, and no ability to feel joy.  That seems to have shifted now, I have at least some physical energy and I can actually laugh at things again, but my mental condition is pretty labile and I'm still having trouble dealing with much.  The bright spot is that I've mostly been keeping up with self-care.  Not perfectly, but way better than I generally have been able to in the past during times like this.  So I guess I must be making progress.

I have found a couple of little things I can do to calm and centre myself when I feel myself starting to flip out.  One is hugging myself.  The other is a stress ball.  I have one that is very lightweight and squishy and is just the right size to fit in my hand.  Sometimes I squeeze it, but sometimes I just hold it to simulate holding hands with someone.  My child-selves like that. 

Bach, glad you found a few things that bring you some comfort. Does a hug help?  :hug:

Quote from: notalone on September 09, 2019, 05:25:57 PM
Bach, glad you found a few things that bring you some comfort. Does a hug help?  :hug:

Thank you, notalone  :hug:  It does help.  It made me cry a tiny bit because of the general state I'm in, but an okay kind of crying, not a yucky messy kind that isn't safe. 

Hi Bach,
I have also found that hugging myself can be helpful - and I saw that you found hugging yourself helped you.  Plus the stress ball too.  Yours sounds very nice, the squishy kind, and I think that child selves would love that. 
Just wanted to off you a safe hug, if that is ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

Quote from: Hope67 on September 14, 2019, 06:53:50 PM
Hi Bach,
I have also found that hugging myself can be helpful - and I saw that you found hugging yourself helped you.  Plus the stress ball too.  Yours sounds very nice, the squishy kind, and I think that child selves would love that. 
Just wanted to off you a safe hug, if that is ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

It is, Hope, thank you :) I've been in a better state of mind, just overwhelmed with fatigue from the tremendous energy it's taking to confront my trauma and learn how to responsibly care for the Youngers.  I hope you are okay too :hug:

I feel so ashamed, because I had a full-out panic attack terror meltdown this afternoon right in front of my strength trainer.  He's a good guy who has known me for nine years, he dealt with me well and seemed mostly unfazed, but it was awful and humiliating for me.  I freaked out when intense anxiety I didn't even know I had about a blood test I had to go for this afternoon broke free during my workout as a result of my having fallen down on the self-care job and not responsibly prepared for the workout beforehand.  I have so little room for error  :fallingbricks: :'(

I did make it to my blood test, and I thought I was going to be okay because I involved the Youngsters, praised and rewarded them for behaving perfectly during the needle stick and negotiated some errands that we actually had some fun with until the kids got tired and flaky, and then wrangling everyone including myself through the supermarket checkout and then getting home was challenging.  Middle B is my ally, she helps me negotiate with the rest.  They speak through her, I guess.  Poor child.  She's the one who wants the same things I want:  Calmness, clarity, and as little mental pain as possible.  It's such a big job, and she's only little. 

I'm off the boil now, but earlier I was really struggling with feeling hopeless.  The evil thing my mother put in me since I was born that wants me to be sick is so strong.  The harder I work to heal, the harder it fights back.  Just feeling hope, just feeling that I'm making progress makes it get sneaky and attack me somewhere I'm not expecting.  My body was built wrong from hostility and neglect, my psyche is wired wrong for the same reasons, and considering that it started the day I was born, I'm really afraid that I'm just too broken.

Like you, my abuse began the day I arrived. Neglect, abuse of all kinds. Rejection. The damning messages. Indoctrination into violence.

I refuse to believe I am irreparably broken. Our brains are marvelous organs, capable of healing and regeneration. Our minds can be retrained. Is it hard work? Absolutely. Does it take time? Without doubt. But impossible? I just refuse to accept it.

Here's a quote from another member that I found very encouraging.  :hug:

Quote from: BeHea1thy on August 25, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
I've had some success in dealing with shame through reading and practice-but everyone finds their own method of what feels right and works for them.

Two thoughts about "cause" are relevant for me; an overdeveloped inner critic who constantly harasses me and acceptance of those thoughts. Life conditioning has set me up to be a caretaker or "parent" to others, and because I couldn't reject that role when young, I lived up to it the best I could. I felt shame when I reviewed my life choices and found them so lacking, despite a rough history of chronic abuse and lack of nurturing. Couldn't I have been better, done better? Actually no. Without certain developmental accomplishments, it is impossible. That's why complex PTSD is so disabling. 

I've managed to break this stranglehold by systematically looking at thoughts as objectively as I can and then concentrating on new thoughts and attitudes, even when it doesn't FEEL right. Since I've been conditioned to believe that my needs come last, this has reinforced the perspective that I don't deserve to have basic experiences which are affirming, life enhancing, healthy or valuable. Everything must be skewed so that others are elevated first and foremost. My "worth" is measured by how I serve and sacrifice, how good a martyr I've been.

Loyalty to health and wholeness is my only guiding principle. Reciprocity and the expectation of caring relationships is now normal. Ongoing efforts to reshape my life to include people who uplift, inspire, acknowledge and enjoy me is as worthy as anything any educational degree or work status. Loneliness that results at times is part of the journey, but does not have to be debilitating. I still possess talents, strengths, interests and skills which I can use for my own benefit.

I forgive myself for large and small digressions. I relax my perfectionistic standards and remind myself that good enough IS GOOD ENOUGH. I allow myself "seasons" of life where I can be gung-ho, over the top excited about experiencing some new thing, and I also allow myself times when everything turns on it's head and the world feels upside down. I know that eventually, through plodding along, I'll come away from the dark side of the road. I remind myself that life can be good, even though I have to work harder at it than others. I remain in therapy so that I can learn what I need to do, or stop doing, to be in the best place to make a less shameful and more enjoyable life.

 :hug: :grouphug: to you Bach.

I don't think there's a "too broken" for healing. It might not be perfect healing, super-fast, but some healing will come, possibly even in unexpected places. Well, that has been my experience.

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: on making it to and through the blood test!!

I got my blood test back.  I've been on medication for hypothyroid for many years.  Earlier this year, I was having symptoms that I assumed were from perimenopause, but it turned out that my thyroid had gone hyper, so my dose was reduced.  Last week after my big meltdown, I realised that my symptoms were similar to the ones I had then.  I began to suspect that it had happened again, and I turned out to be right.  The doctor told me to stop taking my thyroid medication entirely because my dose was already at the lowest for the particular medication I was , and to retest in six weeks.  My regular endocrinologist is on maternity leave, so it took until Friday afternoon for anyone to get back to me with the results, and meanwhile I was getting sicker and sicker.  I take it first thing in the morning, so today is my third day without the medication.  My thyroid doesn't know what to do with itself, with the result that neither does my brain.  I'm filled with anxiety, and my actions are compulsive and only half-sensible.  I'm overwhelmed by my sickness.  I feel like I have dementia.  I took a farcical trip to Target, where I bought some things that were not exactly a waste of money, but also weren't exactly things I needed to go out and buy today.  I did hold on to a semblance of rationality and not just buy everything I thought about buying that I felt like I wanted, so that's good, but I've been shopping like a fiend lately and that is not good.  It's starting to bust out from "stuff I legitimately need that maybe I don't need right this minute but isn't ridiculous" and seep into "things I don't need that someone wants to sell me that probably aren't anywhere near as  good as they look", and it has to stop. 

Considering how difficult it was for me to get thyroid treatment years ago when despite all the hypothyroid symptoms I had, doctor after doctor told me my thyroid function was "low normal" and didn't require treatment, and all anyone wanted to do was give me psych meds that only made me sicker, I'm bat@#$% f@#$ing terrified of what will happen to me without thyroid meds.  Maybe the nutritional and lifestyle changes I've made have increased my physical health to the point where I don't need the meds anymore, but could that really have happened?  It seems so improbable.  What if something else is wrong and I don't get better off the medication?  Or what if I do get better, and I'm better for a while, but then the symptoms come back but the numbers are "good" and they don't believe me?  What if the symptoms come back and I go back on medication and end up going hyperthyroid again?  WHAT IF WHAT IF WHAT IF ARRGGHH I THOUGHT MY THYROID WASN'T GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT PROBLEM ANYMORE  :'( :'( :'( :fallingbricks:

*phew*

That's better.  Fear has been expressed, and I can see how it's only slightly rational, and certainly premature.  Time to breathe.  And couchflop.  There are a zillion things I could, should or want to be doing, but they're all going to have to wait, even the easy ones.

Hi Bach, sorry you are having difficulty with this situation. It is good that you got your test results back and you were right though. I hope things smooth over soon as you adjust to the change/lack of medication. Hang in there! :)

Bach, breathe, relax, do what you need to to take care of yourself.

I don't know how to parent all these damaged children  :'( :'( :'(

Bach,
My first thought: the little things matter and help: a stuffed animal, a story (from you or YouTube), songs (again from you or YouTube), a walk, a safe movie. It is important that they have a chance to be heard. I find that especially challenging because I have one hour of therapy a week and several Littles who want (and/or need) to be heard, then life gets in the way. Ugh! Sometimes the Littles write letters or draw pictures. This forum is a help too. It is a lot---a lot of pain and anger and confusion.  :hug:

Quote from: notalone on September 28, 2019, 12:18:43 AM
Bach,
My first thought: the little things matter and help: a stuffed animal, a story (from you or YouTube), songs (again from you or YouTube), a walk, a safe movie. It is important that they have a chance to be heard. I find that especially challenging because I have one hour of therapy a week and several Littles who want (and/or need) to be heard, then life gets in the way. Ugh! Sometimes the Littles write letters or draw pictures. This forum is a help too. It is a lot---a lot of pain and anger and confusion.  :hug:

notalone, you're right.  A few weeks ago, I ordered a weighted cow online because I'd been thinking about getting a weighted animal for a while, and I decided it was time to go ahead and do it.  She arrived the other day, and I realised yesterday when I was lying on the couch cuddling her on my chest that she reminds me strongly of the original Poor Richard The Lionhearted, Little B's beanbag lion.  I got her online and I had no idea she would feel.  I don't think I even remembered until now how comforting the real Poor Richard the Lionhearted was.  He was accidentally destroyed when I was in my teens.  That wasn't a traumatic incident for me because I was away when it happened, and the news was broken gently to me by my stepmother, but I did miss him a lot.  The replacement stuffed lion my mother got me was quite nice, but he wasn't a beanbag, so it was a whole different vibe.  I feel weirdly disloyal saying this because I got a lot of comfort from him too, but I'm realising now just how not the same the second Poor Richard was.  I have quite a few stuffed beings in my house (including the senior member, the second Poor Richard) because I've always liked having things to cuddle, and I love them all, but this is different.  The cow of course doesn't look anything like Poor Richard, but he must have been a similar size and weight because yesterday she felt so much like the original Poor Richard that I could almost remember what he looked like beyond that he was orangey yellow.  I guess that was sort of like a positive version of an emotional flashback?  In any case, the cow doesn't really have a name yet, and it turns out that she belongs to Middle B, who apparently has never had anything of her own before, only whatever Little B had.  Middle B seems to think that a comforting soft thing to cuddle is called a "lovey", and I don't know where she got that from since I've never used that term for anything.  When I'm not ill and frazzled and overwhelmed from my poor still-confused thyroid, and filled with the despair at the idea of being responsible for the care and healing of these beautiful damaged children on top of the struggle to deal with my own current adult life, it is strange and interesting getting to know these little people.  The older ones are harder and I haven't been able to figure out yet much about how to communicate with them, but Middle B is my ally. 

I worry that I sound crazy, delusional or even schizophrenic when I talk like this.  Also that I'm doing it wrong somehow because I'm coming up with all of this on my own.  I have talked to my therapist about it a bit and she is kind and receptive and encouraging, but she's not trauma-informed so there's nothing formal going on there, and it's just too much right now to try to research it.  It does seem to be helpful, though.  It just started to bubble up here and there a while back when E came to the forum, and it feels unwise when it does to do anything but go with it to the extent that I can tolerate. 

I like your other suggestions too, and will be incorporating them.  Woodsgnome's thread from the other day about playing with options also really struck a chord with me, and connects with this very well.  Now I feel a little more like I have a way forward with some of this. 

Thank you so much for the kindness and support and hugs :hug: 

Bach, on several occasions I have thought (and said) "Am I crazy?" when talking about the parts. My therapist has reassured me that I am not crazy. Most people wouldn't understand because they are not trauma informed. I understand and there are others who do also. You are not crazy.

As for doing it "wrong," I think (just my opinion here) that if you are treating the Littles with care and kindness that is a good thing.

Middle B: I'm glad you have "lovey" to bring you comfort.

I'm full of pain, anger, bad thoughts and self-hatred today.  I want to hurt myself but I won't.  That's my mission for today:  Don't hurt myself. 

That is all.

Dear Bach, so sorry you are filled with those difficult (understatement) feelings. Not hurting yourself is a good goal. One moment at a time. I hope you can let a little of my care for you in.  :hug:

Bach, I just want to say I understand how you are feeling right now, your journey with your littles and the intensity opening up for them can bring as well. We're here with you. Hang in. You are worthy and deserving of care.  :hug:

MB

I wish I could write more.  I've got so many things going on in my head and I'm thinking and thinking and thinking all the time, and it's all such important stuff but it all runs away when I try to write it down.  Also:  The inner children might need to be heard, sure, but they don't seem to want to speak.  All they want to do is react and count on me to notice, figure it out and manage them.  Feel their pain, know it, and still keep them all corralled and stop them from flailing around and making things worse.

Friends, I'm having a really difficult time, and the support I'm getting here is everything.  The little I've been able to write is better than nothing and is keeping my nose just above the waterline.  Thank you  :grouphug:

Bach, thank you for the update. I've been thinking of you throughout the day. Sending you loads of care and compassion.

Hi Bach,
I would also like to send you some compassion and care as well - and also for your inner children.  Safe hugs to you all, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

Life is so difficult and painful and exhausting lately.  I'm keeping up with only my most important tasks.  That's good because it used to be when I was feeling this bad I wouldn't even be doing that, but it's also bad because I am lively enough to want to do all kinds of things, but much too tired and lacking in cope to actually do them.  I am angry and sad about life being so hard, and about the fact that it will never actually get easier.  I'll eventually have less exhaustion and more cope, I'll be more able to handle how hard it is and everything will feel more worth it, but still there is the inescapable pain of knowing that no matter what I do I will always be like this.  And there will always be times when everything, everything, is just too hard and the best I'll be able to do is lie on the couch and maybe resist binge eating, maybe resist food restriction, maybe resist narcotic pain killers, or maybe do those things but only a little, and wish I could just not be here.

I've been doing some pretty intense work with regard to all my Inners later.  Not all of them are children.  Not all of them are even me.  I have poisonous Mom-inners.  I'm stuck with them the same way my real-life mother was stuck with the real-life child-me.  So what the heck am I supposed to do about THAT?

Bach, I'm hearing how incredibly overwhelming everything seems right now. Can you take some time to wrap yourself in a soft blanket and sip some hot tea? You are worthy to receive care and tenderness.

Quote from: Bach on October 24, 2019, 09:29:07 PM
Life is so difficult and painful and exhausting lately.  I'm keeping up with only my most important tasks.  That's good because it used to be when I was feeling this bad I wouldn't even be doing that,

It's hard for me sometimes too to step back and say "Look at the progress I'm making!" :applause: :cheer: Even though I want to make progress in a whole bunch of other ways and faster etc etc, still I am making progress. You are too. You are keeping up with the most important tasks.  :cheer:   

Quote from: Bach on October 24, 2019, 09:29:07 PM
I've been doing some pretty intense work with regard to all my Inners later.  Not all of them are children.  Not all of them are even me.  I have poisonous Mom-inners.  I'm stuck with them the same way my real-life mother was stuck with the real-life child-me.  So what the heck am I supposed to do about THAT?

It's no wonder with the intense work on Inners that everything seems really hard, painful and exhausting. The poisonous Mom-inners will reduce the intensity and frequency with which they turn up. Really, honestly. That comes with time in healing. 

I agree with notalone's suggestion of wrapping yourself in a nice comfy blanket and maybe sipping hot tea. Or maybe there's something else calming you could do - listen to your favourite music maybe. I'm sending you comforting energy and support from OOTS  :grouphug:

Thank you as always for the support, friends  :grouphug:  Everything is still overwhelming, but I've been coping a little better.  I'm tired all the time and I just don't understand why everything has to be so hard.  I do believe that I'm on my way to healing, though.  I have way fewer intrusive thoughts of hurting myself or ending my life than I used to, and that proves to me that healing is possible.  So I still believe there is hope that at least some of it will eventually get easier. 

It's so good to see you getting a tad better. I guess that might not mean keeping the bad vibes totally at bay, for now anyway, but even finding a sliver of light in the midst of the darkness is encouraging. In turn it makes hope seem less far away, less intimidating as well. May you journey well with your sights set on new possibilities in place of the old frustrations.

:hug:

:yeahthat:

I identified another weird trigger.  I have a meditative practise that I try to do every day, and I use it to either soothe myself or to help me focus my thoughts on positive goals.  But sometimes, when I become too consciously aware that it feels right and is working well for me, distracting thoughts start to creep in.  When that happens, I always try to dismiss those thoughts and continue with the rhythm.  Sometimes I am able to do that fairly easily, but tonight I realised that if I push that too hard, catastrophising thoughts start to creep in, and then my practise becomes emotionally counterproductive.  So I have decided that it is far more important for me to stop before I start having to work too hard to ignore the distracting thoughts than it is for me to continue my session for a set amount of time as I have always tried to do. 

Everything is so hard!

Yes, everything is so hard. Good realization about what sometimes happens during your meditation and making a decision to stop before or when the catastrophising thoughts sneak in.

Noticing that and making the connection is good awareness. Sounds like a good decision.

Its really great that you're able to make that realization. Even though it can be tough, I agree with you. Sometimes it is best to stop before things get too bad. Its okay to do that. Take care! :)

Yes, you seem to be finding your own way with regards to meditation.

Sometimes the 'instructions' seem fine and straightforward, but I've found it rarely works as promoted. Meditation does open up space, and it's like one's inner critic will eagerly rush to fill the void. At least that's where I get stuck; then I feel even dumber for having tried to follow someone else's way, and not my own. I sense you're dealing with the same.

As has been noted, kudos  :thumbup: to you for realizing this, and being willing to make adjustments. I hope this will allow greater peace to flow into the void, instead of tension. 

Hi Bach,

Good noticing! I don't think meditation is an unusual trigger for those with cptsd.

Yesterday I came across this book in the resources section,
Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness by David Treleaven.

I haven't read the book, but just the existence of it, and its description, helps me realize that I'm not alone when it comes to not being as calm and relaxed as one might expect with meditation practices.

Here is a quote from the book's description:

QuoteDrawing on a decade of research and clinical experience, psychotherapist and educator David Treleaven shows that mindfulness meditation—practiced without an awareness of trauma—can exacerbate symptoms of traumatic stress. Instructed to pay close, sustained attention to their inner world, survivors can experience flashbacks, dissociation, and even retraumatization.

If this can happen during mindfulness practices, then I doubt it's weird that during your practice, when you become more consciously aware that it feels right and is working well, that is when distracting and catastrophizing thoughts come up.

-"Chris"

Thank you for highlighting this issue.   I've tried and struggled with meditation.   It's reassuring to know that others have struggled too.

Quote from: Bach on November 08, 2019, 02:09:36 AM
So I have decided that it is far more important for me to stop before I start having to work too hard to ignore the distracting thoughts than it is for me to continue my session for a set amount of time as I have always tried to do. 

:yeahthat:

Bach, I know well that feeling that everything is so hard! But as others have said  :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: on noticing what you have about meditation and on stopping before it gets too hard. That is forward progress! :applause:

Not wanting to hijack your Journal Bach, I posted what I've experienced to be helpful ways of meditating with cptsd here: https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=12845.0

Thank you for all the feedback, friends  :grouphug:  It is comforting and reassuring.  Blueberry, that's a great idea for a thread, and I'm going to try some of your suggestions.  I actually WOULD hug a tree if it wasn't so cold out! 

I'm so thankful for this forum.  Wish I had more to give.  I had a good weekend with some interludes of actually feeling whole and like a brighter, more energetic and less beaten-down version of myself, but then I had severe anxiety last night that prevented me from sleeping until I took some klonopin, and this morning I just want to die.  I am safe, not in any danger, and not unable to cope with it, but my head is filled with every sad, fearful, insecure, overwhelming thought possible.  Is this the inevitable price of having felt good and enjoyed myself?

QuoteI'm so thankful for this forum.  Wish I had more to give.

Like the rest of us, you contribute more than you think. Just knowing we are not alone in our thoughts, symptoms and reactions is huge, and by you being vulnerable and posting you are being supportive of every person who reads your posts, members and guests alike.

It could be that you letting yourself have some fun was triggering - that very same thing happens to me whenever I let myself enjoy life in a visible way (in public, dancing, laughing, etc). I feel that I'm in danger because I've drawn attention to myself. Could it be the same for you? Or maybe, you feel guilty for having fun?

In any case I do believe we should feel free to express ourselves, to have fun, to feel "like a brighter, more energetic and less beaten-down version" of ourselves. I'm glad you experienced that. Hang in there!
:heythere:

Bach wondered: "Is this the inevitable price of having felt good and enjoyed myself?"

I go through that sort of self-critique all the time as well. Even if I can enjoy something for itself, I'm always wary of 'the other shoe' dropping, the 'this can't be for me' habit. It's lonely, and cruel, considering it probably stems from when we weren't accepted as human beings with real feelings.

It's yet another of those small steps; frustrating because they're not as huge as we'd like, but just the fact they're there portends that while self-acceptance is slow, it's there and ready for us to claim. It's often hard to see, though; mostly just because we're not used to it, were never allowed to feel good about ourselves before.

May you experience more steps as you journey past the old life into the better one you richly deserve and are working so hard for.  :hug:

Hello, friends :wave: The past several days have been very difficult and have taken a lot of energy, but I have been doing very well with some important self-care things.  On Monday afternoon I was able to finish the yard work that needed to be done before yesterday when winter came.  The little ones in me get extremely anxious and depressed at the death of the garden and the coming of winter, but I found a way to encourage them to come out and help me.  That made the tasks feel much more positive and less anxiety-provoking, but I was not able to do anything else for the rest of the day because of sheer physical pain and exhaustion from the effort.  Then winter arrived yesterday with cold gloomy damp.  I was very agitated and depressed but I was able to ask for help in two different situations where I would usually be afraid to ask for help, and so was able to complete a work task I wouldn't otherwise have managed, and to make a responsible decision about not taking on a commitment to do something that I really want to do but which at the moment is just too much.  I was also able to stay calm and stave off a panic attack after an unexpected severe anxiety trigger last night.  This morning it is sunny but very, very cold.  So I bundled up and took short but vigorous walk in the morning sun, because I found doing that whenever possible very helpful for keeping both my activity level and my spirits up last winter.  I don't always enjoy that walk while it's happening, but I always enjoy how I feel afterwards when I'm back home warm and comfortable and knowing that I have succeeded for another day in not giving up.

I have been more active than usual every day since last Wednesday, so I'm taking the rest of today off and if all I want to do is lie on the couch and watch TV all day and get takeout for dinner, that is what I'm going to do!

I hope you all are as well as possible  :grouphug:

The other day when I was feeling frustrated and down on myself for indulging in compulsive behaviour without thinking it through I caught myself thinking "I'm trying so hard to be a better person", and then thinking "Wait, that's not true.  I don't need to be a better person.  What I need is to get better at being a person."  That went along with another thought that flashed through my mind at some point this week, that my quest is to accept myself as I am while continuing to work towards being the best version of myself that I can.

There are plenty of healthy thoughts in here, but what a war it is between the healthy parts of me and the parts of me that are programmed to force me to be ill. 

Quote from: Bach on November 14, 2019, 07:46:04 PM
"Wait, that's not true.  I don't need to be a better person.  What I need is to get better at being a person."  That went along with another thought that flashed through my mind at some point this week, that my quest is to accept myself as I am while continuing to work towards being the best version of myself that I can.

:hug:

The inner critic likes to pretend it's acting for you, but does so by a worn-out method -- sending negative thoughts about yourself.

Trying so hard to defeat the inner critic's false thoughts just seems to encourage its own response. Better is what you're doing -- building up strength from the inside out, drawing on that good person you already are. Seems like a small step? No -- it's huge!  :applause:

QuoteSeems like a small step? No -- it's huge!  :applause:

:yeahthat:

Quote from: Bach on November 14, 2019, 07:46:04 PM
The other day when I was feeling frustrated and down on myself for indulging in compulsive behaviour without thinking it through I caught myself thinking "I'm trying so hard to be a better person", and then thinking "Wait, that's not true.  I don't need to be a better person.  What I need is to get better at being a person."  That went along with another thought that flashed through my mind at some point this week, that my quest is to accept myself as I am while continuing to work towards being the best version of myself that I can.

There are plenty of healthy thoughts in here, but what a war it is between the healthy parts of me and the parts of me that are programmed to force me to be ill.

That sounds like great progress, Bach! I'm in awe. I hope you don't mind if I steal that tip for myself.

Trigger warning: Physical abuse and neglect of infant/child.










The other day, I read some of this thread:
https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=7916.0

This week is very hard for me because along with my impending Thanksgiving dinner with my mother for the one day a year I have contact with her, it is also the anniversary of the death of my baby nephew a few years ago.  Not only is there all the understandable sadnesses surrounding losing a precious beautiful 8-month old because he got croup, stopped breathing and was revived too late, but today I had an emotional flashback of being pressed almost but not quite to death in the crib, and I'm really pretty darn sure that it was a memory, and not my imagination. 

I believe that the flashback occurred because I've been thinking about my poor little sweetheart and how much I will always miss him, and the underlying knowledge that he died from oxygen deprivation combined with all the feelings I've been trying to process about seeing my mother to produce the memory.  I believe that it is a memory and not imagination because it adds up so well with what I remember about the time when I was about 10 and my mother put her hands around my neck and choked me until I started to black out.  That memory came back to me several years ago after what I didn't know at the time was an emotional flashback, which happened because I was doing some of what I called emotional archaeology.  In an attempt to understand what happened to me as a child, I was at my mother's house while she was away going through the basement finding artifacts from my childhood such as photographs, school reports and letters exchanged by my divorced parents.  After a while, I became overwhelmed by this, and then I found myself sobbing uncontrollably on a bed while having a clear feeling of being a baby in a crib, wet and cold and hungry, crying for help at the top of my little lungs and no one coming to help.  When I talked about that incident in therapy, I qualified it with disclaimers about how I knew I couldn't say for sure that that had actually happened to me as a baby, but it FELT like it had really happened.  Then, a few days after that flashback, I had a dream that caused me to remember the time that she choked me with her hands.  That I knew right away was a real memory of something that actually happened, and I recalled that my reaction to it when it happened had entirely lacked surprise.  I remembered that I'd had an internal voice say something along the lines of "Yes, your mother just tried to kill you, but you're still here.  So just get up and move on," and then did just that.  As if nearly being asphyxiated by my caretaker was something I had already survived at least once before.  All this adds up with everything I've learned about CPTSD in the past six months to convince me that yes, these things happened to me.

This happened this morning, and all day I've been coping well, taking care of myself, and My Person is here and also taking care of me, and thankfully will be home all week, but physically I feel like I've been hit by a truck.  Literally.  My entire body hurts.  Medication and exhaustion are helping to keep me calm, but my diaphragm won't relax.  I feel confident that I will make it through and be okay once I do, but right now every moment is clear crisp crackling only thinly tolerable utter discomfort in every atom of my being.

Dear Bach,

How horrible and terrifying. No wonder you feel like you've been hit by a truck. This is a great deal of trauma for your body to hold/remember. It makes me so sad.

Quote from: Bach on November 24, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
  So just get up and move on," and then did just that. 

Unfortunately I also have memories of abuse and then getting up and functioning. You (and all of us) not only should never been hurt in such a manner, but when hurt occurred should have been held and nurtured and comforted. My warmest hug and love to you, Bach.  :hug:

Quote from: Bach on November 24, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Trigger warning: Physical abuse and neglect of infant/child.










The other day, I read some of this thread:
https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=7916.0

This week is very hard for me because along with my impending Thanksgiving dinner with my mother for the one day a year I have contact with her, it is also the anniversary of the death of my baby nephew a few years ago.  Not only is there all the understandable sadnesses surrounding losing a precious beautiful 8-month old because he got croup, stopped breathing and was revived too late, but today I had an emotional flashback of being pressed almost but not quite to death in the crib, and I'm really pretty darn sure that it was a memory, and not my imagination. 

I believe that the flashback occurred because I've been thinking about my poor little sweetheart and how much I will always miss him, and the underlying knowledge that he died from oxygen deprivation combined with all the feelings I've been trying to process about seeing my mother to produce the memory.  I believe that it is a memory and not imagination because it adds up so well with what I remember about the time when I was about 10 and my mother put her hands around my neck and choked me until I started to black out.  That memory came back to me several years ago after what I didn't know at the time was an emotional flashback, which happened because I was doing some of what I called emotional archaeology.  In an attempt to understand what happened to me as a child, I was at my mother's house while she was away going through the basement finding artifacts from my childhood such as photographs, school reports and letters exchanged by my divorced parents.  After a while, I became overwhelmed by this, and then I found myself sobbing uncontrollably on a bed while having a clear feeling of being a baby in a crib, wet and cold and hungry, crying for help at the top of my little lungs and no one coming to help.  When I talked about that incident in therapy, I qualified it with disclaimers about how I knew I couldn't say for sure that that had actually happened to me as a baby, but it FELT like it had really happened.  Then, a few days after that flashback, I had a dream that caused me to remember the time that she choked me with her hands.  That I knew right away was a real memory of something that actually happened, and I recalled that my reaction to it when it happened had entirely lacked surprise.  I remembered that I'd had an internal voice say something along the lines of "Yes, your mother just tried to kill you, but you're still here.  So just get up and move on," and then did just that.  As if nearly being asphyxiated by my caretaker was something I had already survived at least once before.  All this adds up with everything I've learned about CPTSD in the past six months to convince me that yes, these things happened to me.

This happened this morning, and all day I've been coping well, taking care of myself, and My Person is here and also taking care of me, and thankfully will be home all week, but physically I feel like I've been hit by a truck.  Literally.  My entire body hurts.  Medication and exhaustion are helping to keep me calm, but my diaphragm won't relax.  I feel confident that I will make it through and be okay once I do, but right now every moment is clear crisp crackling only thinly tolerable utter discomfort in every atom of my being.

I'm so sorry to hear that Bach but I'm glad you could share this out. I hope you will continue to find kindness for yourself.
I've sometimes been confused whether something was a memory or a dream, or from imagination. But then I reassure myself, that even if in the end it wasn't true (but it could be definitely), then we must have still felt something so devastating to have even thought of such a thing - subconsciously or not. Either way, your experiences are valid and you deserve the time to rest if you can. Wish I could send you strength for this oncoming week.

notalone :hug: and Perplex, thank you for responding and validating.









I'm somewhat better now, but I'm still having a lot of trouble relaxing my diaphragm. The muscle memory (because that's what it is, muscle memory, not a hostile Mother-entity inseparably woven into my being that wants me to be dead and will never let go) is powerful and tricky. Fighting it makes it worse but starting to relax makes it worse too because the muscle memory remembers that there is too much danger in relaxing. At any time there might be another attack coming, so I have to be able to keep some air in my lungs no matter what.

I spoke to my brother on the phone earlier and he was lovely and supportive, understanding and believing everything I told him and showing me by the way he responded how closely he listens to me and how much he cares. I know it's painful for him to hear, but I also know he doesn't mind when I really need it and it will really help me, and it did.  In a little while I need to go make cranberry sauce for tomorrow. That will be soothing and give me a feeling of accomplishment and help fortify me to make tomorrow safely mine.

Bach, glad to hear that your brother was supportive. I'm wondering how Thanksgiving went.

Quote from: notalone on November 29, 2019, 03:18:06 AM
Bach, glad to hear that your brother was supportive. I'm wondering how Thanksgiving went.

notalone, thank you so much for asking.  Thanksgiving itself went pretty well actually.  The food was good, I had some fun with the kids, and I was able to keep my mother at a distance without making a big deal of it.  There were several moments when I felt the old urge to make nice and try to connect but fortunately I finally truly understand and accept that there is no safe way for me to connect with her.  I know that her feelings were hurt when she arrived and I did not approach to greet her, and every time she tried to catch my eye and I did not let her.  I didn't take pleasure in that, but I don't feel guilty about it, either.  It wasn't personal.  I was just protecting myself.  I feel good about that.  I also feel good about how barely anything she said registered with me, it was like Charlie Brown's parents.  So all that was good, and by the time we left last night I was positively giddy with satisfaction and relief.  Unfortunately, though, part of me is still in the flashback.

TRIGGER WARNING - Abuse and neglect












This morning when I woke up, I almost immediately felt myself starting to get wound up, and all I wanted to do was take a magnesium bath.  So I did that, and it was really soothing, but then I went out to the chiropractor and accidentally stumbled into a post-Thanksgiving conversation that riled me up again.  So now I'm lying on the couch with my weighted animal buddies and waiting for the distressed baby in my gut to calm down.  She has a name, SE, and she's the original survivor.  SE stands for the name that was on my original birth certificate.  I didn't know until I was in my 20s and had to get a copy of my original birth certificate for some administrative thing that I'd been given a different name at birth.  The certificate I got then showed that my name had been changed when I was a year old.  I asked my mother about that at the time, and she told me that it was because I was failing to thrive and as part of my treatment she changed it in accordance with an old superstition about hiding me from the Golem.  The important part of that story is, of course, the part she had no idea she was telling me -- that I was fed so inconsistently during my first year of life that I was literally starving.  That fact was confirmed to me by my brother.  He's two years older than I am.  He didn't get wonderful parenting either, and he remembers the doctor visit during which appetite stimulants were prescribed for both of us because we were malnourished.  I have learned a great deal about what happened to me as a child thanks to my completely non-introspective mother telling me what she thinks are colourful anecdotes about my childhood or her experiences as a mother that she has no idea are revealing horrifying truths when added up with other things I've found out through my previously referenced emotional archaeology.  My mother believes that she would never have left me alone when I was sick with the flu when I was just barely ten years old (literally -- it was the week of my 10th birthday), when in reality that week was a formative experience of my life, during which I took care of myself while lying on the couch with my quilt watching game shows all morning and cartoons all afternoon, and then took care of myself alone in my room lying in bed reading a book after the rest of the family came home from school and work, so as to prevent anyone else from getting sick.  Which I long remembered as being a GOOD week, that I was kind of sorry was over when I got better.  Anyway, whatever.  I'm doing pretty well with the older inner children, Middle B in particular is tremendously grateful that I'm dealing with SE, because apparently she's the one who has been dealing with SE all these years, but I don't know what to do with the poor little babe.  She's so tiny and hurt.  She doesn't understand.  She hasn't been fed in so long that when she is fed again her tummy will hurt and if she cries from the hurt the monster will come again and there will be the fight for life, but she doesn't know what any of that is.  She knows fear and almost nothing else.  I feel so bad for her.  I wish I could hold her in my arms so she could sleep and feel safe and loved and warm but she's just a cold little tense ball of torment and unshed tears.  I don't know if she even understands that she's alive.  How will I ever make her feel safe after what she's been through?   

Bach,
Good job with your boundaries at Thanksgiving.  :applause: Do you realize how big it is, the way you handled that?

Glad you are caring for yourself with bath and weighted animals.

Bach, I truly believe that in time SE will be able to not only tolerate, but soak in care and tenderness. I wish I could hold SE, wrapped up in a soft, warm blanket. I would feed her small amounts, what her tummy could safely handle.

Love to Middle B.

I think I've worked through the part of the flashback that involved the terror and grief and lack of control of enduring the horrific abuse I experienced, but my gut and diaphragm are still very tight and that feeling is triggering anxiety and panic from remembering what my daily life was like before I had any understanding of the root causes of my mental and physical troubles and I felt like this nearly all the time with no real sense that there would ever be anything better. It's very hard to tolerate and my resilience is low along with my sensitivity being very high.

notalone, thank you for understanding and believing me. Your kind words for the children are appreciated. They especially need kindness and to be believed.

I don't think I can express it any better than notalone. I believe you and I believe the children.

It's just a thought, but if Middle B is used to dealing with SE, could you perhaps ask her how she thinks you could help SE?  Could you try wrapping SE in a soft blanket?

Sending love and hugs. :hug:

She wants to be swaddled but not too tight, and cuddled by gentle arms against a supportive body with her head secure and a face close enough to hers to feel the whisper of calm, relaxed breaths on her head.
But Bach doesn't know how to do that from where she is and I'm too tired now from taking care of these littler ones for as long I can remember.  She has to do it without me.  I want to go back to sleep  :'( :'( :'(

 :hug: :hug: :hug:

 :hug:

What keen observations , Bach. So simple, right in front of us, and so easily hidden when the old stuff has been so hard to dislodge.

Until, one day, it dawns that yes, these other thoughts are here too, and yes -- we CAN claim them as our own. All those external prompts towards self-improvement dissolve once that discovery washes over.

Thanks for pointing to the possible; it gives so much hope that the journey out and away from hurt is right, and sometimes what seems like the smallest steps can actually be a powerful leap into a new way of being -- your way.  :cheer:

I've been thinking, and I can tell you what helps me in case it's of use. If it doesn't sound helpful or doesn't feel right for you, please ignore.

When I need to talk to or comfort a part, I close my eyes and imagine that I'm walking up a gravel path to a gate. I try and make it as realistic as possible, so I hear and feel the gravel under my feet, feel the warmth of the sun on my skin etc. I then open the gate, walk through it, and close the gate again.

On the other side of the gate, there's a special place. This can be a meadow, a beach, a wood, whatever feels safe and works best for you. Within this place, I ask to see the part I want to talk to or comfort. The part either appears, or I walk along and find her. As the part appears separate from me, I can listen to her, hold her, wrap her in a blanket, tell her I love her etc. Anything that's needed.

When I've finished, I go back through the gate, close it behind me, and walk back along the gravel path.

Please ignore all of this if it doesn't feel appropriate for you. I'm really just saying what helps me in case it gives you a way of comforting SE.

Sending love and hugs to you, Middle B and SE. :grouphug:

Snowdrop, thank you for sharing this with me.  It took me entirely by surprise when Middle B answered in this thread last night.  I had started trying to answer, but it was almost like she pushed me aside and said "No, just let me do it."  She was impatient with me, and her exhaustion and grief were so painful.  It scared me.  I'm afraid that she has abandoned me.  Or maybe that I killed her!  All these years I had no idea how much I was leaning on her and how hard it was for her.  I didn't even know she was there.
I don't want her to be gone. 

It scares me to think of myself this way, as this collection of fractured selves of various ages and traumas inside this one fragile skin.  So far that fear has stopped me from getting very far into the concept of healing the inner selves, but I guess maybe I need to challenge the fear a little more. 

I can imagine it was a surprise! But Middle B hasn't abandoned you. She hasn't left you.

I've recently been reading a book about Internal Family Systems therapy, and one of the key things it says is that *everybody* has parts. Having parts, or inner selves, is normal. It's just that some people (such as those of us with cptsd) are more aware of them than others.

Another key thing the book says is that all parts are useful and valuable, but they may carry burdens that make them act in particular ways and have particular feelings. These parts can release their burdens, however, and be healed.

I have found learning about Internal Family Systems to be of immense help and comfort.

Bach,

This is from E. I'm writing from myself, as someone who has taken care of the others. I think maybe Middle B is realizing that you are a grown-up and that you might be able to take care of the others. You are a mom. There are times, like when your kids are sick, that you take care of your children past the point of exhaustion. Then maybe their daddy comes and you trust him to take care of them so you allow your exhaustion to take over and you sleep. Maybe Middle B is letting herself feel all her tiredness because she is knowing that you can take care of baby and the others.

I don't know if this makes any sense. I'm trying to figure things out and just because it is one way with us, doesn't mean that it is the same for you.

Hello to Middle B from E. I love you.  :hug:

From,
E (7 years and ageless)

My therapist had an emergency and had to cancel my appointment this morning.  Oh god, why today of all days, why?  I keep thinking I'm getting out of the triggered state and then getting thrown back in.  I can't with this.  I have work to do and I have to travel in a week. 

It's snowing, harder than was forecast, and My Person had to go to the city today.  The snow looks pretty but also makes me feel anxious.  I have things I want to do today but I think I need to lie down.  My gut hurts so bad. 

Snowdrop, I don't know what Internal Family Systems is, can you recommend any good reading?  I can't search right now because when I'm like this I get easily overwhelmed but if you have a direction you could point me in I'd appreciate it.

E, Middle B loves you too, but she's too tired to hug back.  Poor little thing.  I wish I could help her but I don't know what to do for her, all she can do right now is mostly sleep and sometimes cry.  I cared for SE this morning though.
She's doing a little better.  It's really hard.  All the others seem to be fine, thank goodness.  We're keeping it together.  I hope.  I'm not sure.  I actually feel like I might be completely crazy and I'm scared to even post this.  So I'm going to post it and then go to the couch and put the warm doggy on my belly. 

I'm glad you were able to care for SE and she's feeling a bit better. Spending time on the couch sounds like a good idea.

This video is a good starting point: https://youtu.be/2UfmGwENz9M (https://youtu.be/2UfmGwENz9M). It's the first of four on IFS and trauma, and you'll probably find links to the other three underneath it. Good YouTube search terms are "Schwartz IFS" and "Schwartz IFS trauma".

The book I read is Internal Family Systems Therapy (second edition) by Richard Schwartz and Martha Sweezy.

Bach,
You are not crazy.  :hug:

Checking in.  I'm here still struggling along, finding my way little by very little back to a safer headspace.  It's really hard.  I can feel my body fighting to stay in the hypervigilant state, and it tricks my brain into doing creating obstacles.  I have therapy this afternoon, thank goodness.  My therapist having to cancel on Monday was the worst possible timing it could have been.  Also, my strength trainer went away the week before Thanksgiving, so that's another twice-weekly stabilising factor that I haven't had.  I'm keeping up with exercise as much as I can, and that's a real challenge.  There's a part of me fighting to say that I'm not doing enough, perhaps because it feels too dangerous to say instead that I've been doing well considering the circumstances?  Anyway, it's a good thing that I've learned so much from my acupuncturist about acupressure that I can self-administer, because that and magnesium baths have been powerful tools to help keep me from flying completely over the edge.

Finally out of the EF.  Thank goodness.  Wow, no wonder I was sick for six solid months back in 2006 the first time I had a severe EF about my trauma in infancy.  I have a feeling that the 2006 EF and the one I had a few weeks ago were both the same incident, and that the 2006 one was a flashback to what happened in the lead-up to the recent one.  Something that is interesting is that the 2006 flashback led me to remember the incident of choking that happened to Middle B, and the recent one has led me to remember an incident in which my toxic mother's toxic mother held Little B down on the floor with her whole body weight.  I don't quite remember the incident, but I remember that after that, Little B tried to tell everyone how she felt about it by drawing a picture of the grandmother saying "I'm going to hold you down!"  Now I'm remembering that Little B used to try to communicate her hurt in indirect ways like that sometimes.  There was another incident in which the mother was complaining about how Little B always got stains on her clothing and it was so expensive to keep buying clothing for her, and the stepfather made jokes about how they should sell her in the classifieds.  So she wrote a classified ad offering herself for sale "complete with pre-stained wardrobe", at which the mother laughed, and the stepfather praised her for her sense of humour and told her that a sense of humour was what would get her through life.  It turns out that he wasn't wrong, but she was frustrated that they thought she was joking when was she was trying to say was that it was really mean of him to say that. 

Doing things to comfort the young ones is real.  On the morning I was triggered into this recent EF, My Person and I found a Sesame Street episode that I would have seen back in the 1970s and watched it while I laid on the couch with a blanket on and my heavy animal buddies all sitting on me, and that's how I managed to calm down enough to carry on with my day.  So a few days ago, I bought the little ones a couple of DVD collections of Sesame Street stuff from back then so that we'll be able to watch more when they want to.  Also, most of my heavy animal buddies double as microwaveable heat packs, and one of them is in a collar shape with a little bear head and paws on it to soothe a sore neck.  My Person had an ordinary collar-shaped heat pack, but after many years its seams wore out and we had to throw it away.  After we got Snakebear, My Person kept borrowing him, and that upset Middle B because the heavy animal buddies are mostly hers.  So I bought another neck collar animal, so that My Person could have his own, but the one I bought had a dog head instead of a bear head, and Middle B wanted to keep both of them.  We resolved this by letting her choose the one she wanted to keep completely for herself, and because she likes to cuddle with the heavy animals (the more the better, really, on her and around her on the couch) every day and My Person only needs his when his neck hurts or he has a headache, promising that she can use the one that she gives to My Person any time he's not using it if she wants to, and agreeing on a location where My Person's neck collar animal can be kept so everyone will always know where to find him.  It surprised and unsettled me how unwilling I felt to part with the either of the neck collar animals after having bought a second one expressly so that My Person could have his own, but it's good to know that Middle B is a little more okay now.  I've been reluctant for a lot of reasons to really go with this concept of inner child work, but I guess I'm starting to lose that reluctance, because allowing myself to think about it this way is really quite powerful.

I'm glad you're out of the EF. What happened to Little B and Middle B sounds absolutely awful.

I find inner children / parts work really powerful too. I was initially wary about going down that route, but I don't regret it in any way. I'm glad that you're able to listen to and comfort the little ones. It's very healing, for them and for you.

:hug:

Bach,
Glad you are out of the EF. I think it's great that you are able to comfort the little ones with Sesame Street and heavy animal buddies. Please continue with your good self-care. You've been through a really difficult time.  :hug:

After all the work I did to get out of my flashback state, I was retriggered today when some people who I care about and trust but who are not close personal friends tried to draw me into a political issue that is important to them.  They did this at a time that was inconvenient to me, in a situation where it wasn't completely appropriate to bring it up, and what's even worse is that I tried to express my discomfort and my wish to drop the subject without being rude, and when this was not recognised, I became very anxious and got caught up in the fearful emotions provoked by the topic, and this made me even more unable to extricate myself from the conversation.  This is triggering to me for a lot of different reasons that have less to do with the political issue itself and more to do with the relationship I have with these people.  A while after it happened, I wrote them a note to express my discomfort with the situation.  I received an acknowledgement of the validity of my discomfort and was thanked for my willingness to listen to what they had to say.  I guess this is good, but the whole thing kind of ruined my day, and now I'm struggling to complete the tasks I must finish before I travel on Wednesday afternoon, and am feeling overwhelmed and at risk of failing.

I am so terrified of everything and everyone.  It isn't fair that I have to live like this.  I'm already doing everything I can to be well and function, and there's just nothing more I can do about it.  My life is pain and it will always be pain. I can't, I can't, I can't :'(  :fallingbricks:

I'm sorry you were triggered, Bach. Cptsd isn't fair.

Is there anything you can do to help you feel less overwhelmed? Heavy animal buddies, perhaps?

You are safe. You are safe. :hug:

Thank you for the kind reply, Snowdrop.  Aside from being triggered, I was very stressed yesterday because I'm leaving for a three-week trip tomorrow, and I have paying work that I have to get done before I leave, so I couldn't just lie down on the couch and tend to myself the way that I would have liked to.  After I wrote in here yesterday, I did succeed in balancing working on my job with preparations for my trip with food and rest and recognition of the efforts of some of the Inners to help, so I made progress on both the work and the getting ready, which helped to calm me down.  Today, I'm doing well with remembering to take breaks and care for myself, so although I still have anxiety about being ready in time, I'm not feeling as panicky and overwhelmed by it as I was yesterday.  I'm just hoping that the rest of this winter isn't as hard as it has been so far. 

Bach,
I think most people would be stressed to be preparing for a three week trip plus work deadlines.  :fallingbricks: Add to that cPTSD and being triggered---yikes!

Glad you are taking breaks and caring for yourself as you are able.  :hug:

I'm staying with friends overseas and although I know they love me and enjoy having me visit, I've been full of strange negative thoughts about myself.  I feel like I'm a sneaky weirdo who I wouldn't want to have staying in my house if I were them.  This is particularly unsettling because these are friends who welcome me like family and tell me they feel like I belong here, like I'm not a guest but a beloved member of the household who is just not home most of the time.  There are three different families that have expressed feeling the way about me.  I guess that it must be because over the years, most of my visits to this country have been because I have work to do here, and I have come at random times of the year, for random lengths of time, and I have usually had things of my own going on while I'm here.  So when I come to stay with these friends, I'm doing my own thing some of the time, and when I'm not, I join in with whatever they normally do, not asking them to take time off work or entertain me or do anything special at all to take care of me other than give me space in their home. interact and spend time with me when they want to, and perhaps loan me a computer.  I guess it takes a particular set of temperaments from both sides for relationships like that to develop, and I've been lucky to make such good friendships with people who are compatible with me that way.  Still, though, a part of me insists on feeling that somehow they are suffering me for incomprehensible reasons of their own, and that they look forward to being rid of me when I leave.  People tell me straight out that they feel I belong, and yet I feel like I'm running some kind of scam.  Like they would cast me out "if they really knew".  Like there's something bad and wrong about my not being at home in my own house by myself where no one has to look at or deal with me (except My Person when he's home), bouncing from living room to kitchen to bathroom, working if I have work to do, doing house chores if I'm well enough, wasting time on the Internet or lying on the couch watching television if I'm not, wondering why I'm alive and where my life has gone. 

This morning I realised that the feelings of self-loathing I have been troubled by are emotional flashing back to when my mother kicked me out and I went to live with my father's family, where I was told I was wanted but not treated like it. Oh the pain and disappointment of thinking I was going to be loved and cared for and instead simply finding myself subjected to a different variety of neglect and abuse. It was very slightly more loving and caring, and certainly less physically harmful, yes, but as I understand now, just as damaging to my long-term emotional health and ability to form and maintain relationships. I have not yet even scratched the surface of dealing with my feelings towards my father and stepmother. I'm very ambivalent because they did some important good for me (not something I can say about my mother and stepfather), but also some grievous harm. It's all so hard.

I have been confused about what to call the younger and older teenaged Inners that I am in contact with because they have not wanted to be B's. Today we talked and they realised that it's okay to be B's. They don't need other names. They can be whole and they can be loved and they can be part of us as B's.

I love and accept you both, Early and Later Teen B, and I promise that the two of you will be heard and cared for along with all the rest of me's.

This sounds like progress, Bach. :applause:

Those were wonderful signs as you've struggled so hard with things for so long. You deserve these better times; thanks for sharing.

I hope this is alright --  :hug:

Thank you for the replies, woodsgnome and Snowdrop. It's so validating when I manage to put the feelings and insights into words and they turn out to make sense to others. Because I'm never 100% sure of reality.

I've been having lots of thoughts and insights while I'm here and have no time to write them out on a phone, but I'm making some notes and it will be interesting to sort it all out into new understanding when I go home and talk to my therapist and Person about it.

Love to all out there who are reading and dealing with the season's particular challenges :grouphug:

Bach, I want to support you. My mind is such a muddle right now, I can't think clearly to respond. I care about you and all the Bs.

Today I realised that my inner critic is not my mother, and most of the time is not mean or ill-intentioned.  I think my inner critic is less complicated than that, a loving but clueless and completely in-over-their-head parent, who does want me and care about my well-being, but is frightened and baffled by my feelings and needs, who gets frustrated and impatient with me because I can't just DO THE THINGS.  So my inner critic is...My father?  With maybe a little of my stepmother mixed in?  Wow do I not want to deal with my feelings about the other set of parents.

There are too many voices in here. :stars:

Quote from: Bach on January 01, 2020, 09:42:45 PM
There are too many voices in here. :stars:

I get that. Do what you can to bring comfort, tea, blanket, etc.

The one whose trauma has to this point been completely overlooked is Lizzy B.  Lizzy B, the one who thought she had been delivered from * and given a place she could blossom only to find that all she could do was disappoint and be disappointed.  No one was actively trying to hurt her in the cold house where headphones were her best friend, but no one was trying not to hurt her, either.  And she was subjected to so many casual hurts, so many, so painful.  It wasn't her fault that she was unsocialised and untaught.  It was THEIR job to teach her, and they didn't do it.  That was not her fault.  That was horribly unfair.  It wasn't precisely their fault either, but it was horribly unfair.

Lizzy B has all the treasures, all the things I first loved the most when I had a little bit of space to be myself, but she is also the one who learned the terrible conflict between persistent hope for something better and the deeply conditioned expectation that anything that seemed good would only turn out to hurt in some new and overwhelming way.  The joy thief was born in Lizzy B, and probably the bipolar nature as well.  But I love her, and I want to see what she can create if I can nurture her and draw her out by way of paint or pencils or polymer clay.

I love the compassion and understanding you have for Lizzy B. You're right, none of it was her fault. :hug:

If Lizzy B would feel safe with a hug, I'd like to give her one. :hug: I want you to know, Lizzie B, that you are of value; who you are and what you feel. This weekend I will be visiting a friend and we plan on finger painting (probably Hope). I wish Lizzie B could join us. She would be welcome. I will think of her.

Too many of them in here.  They all need attention.  I need a better way.  More resources.  More energy.  Aaaaarrrggghhhh  :fallingbricks:

I am not in control of this. Helllllllp

Bach, I hear (saw) that you are not in control of this. I get that you feel completely overwhelmed. I wish I had some answers for you. I guess for this moment, do what you can to bring some calm to ALL: heavy animal buddies, music, safe movie or t.v., warm drink, ask someone safe to sit with you, etc. It is really hard to have so many who are having such big feelings and needing (rightfully so) care. Sending my care and hugs to ALL for whom it feels safe and comforting.

Thank you, notalone. I wish I had more of a grip. I kind of love it when Middle B shows up and posts but it also freaks me out. I think I'm a bit scared of her.

Got to learn how to love myself.  Even the part of me that is a child who wants to be sick because it's safer than trying to navigate the outside world, and even a little safer than everything in my life really, please don't make me think about it!.

My love to you, Bach, Middle B and all the Littles. It is so hard when things feel so overwhelming.  :grouphug:

Thank you, notalone  :grouphug:  I feel a bit crazy right now.  It really helps to have what's going on in my head with the inners acknowledged and taken seriously as a way towards healing rather than as some kind of frightening psychosis.

Last night I dreamed about eating broken glass.  I can't quite remember the rest of the dream.  It had something to do with someone's garden being trashed because of construction.  That happened at my house last year, but the garden in the dream didn't look like mine and wasn't in the context of the dream understood in any way to be mine.  Now I can't get the glass-eating (chewing?) out of my head.  In the dream itself it seems to have been more-or-less a neutral experience.  In the dream, it wasn't necessarily a pleasant thing, but it didn't seem to injure or distress me in any way either.  After I woke up, though, I kept remembering the glass-eating (chewing?  Biting?).  I found it unsettling and wanted to forget about it, and after a while I did, but just now it came back into my head when I was watching a TV show in which a character had anxiety, and it's creeping me out again.  Psychically, I feel sort of like I did swallow glass shards and now they are cutting me up inside. 

Also just remembered that I ate a chocolate bar too close to bedtime last night.  I enjoyed every bit of it when it was going down, but then when I tried to go to sleep I had insomnia anxiety which I only tolerated for about five minutes before taking a klonopin.  Must more closely watch the connection between night-time treats and insomnia anxiety at bedtime.

Hi Bach,
Just wanted to wish you the best for tonight, and hope that you get more rest and a nicer sleep.   :hug: to you, if that's ok.
Hope  :)

Bach,

The inners are real. You are not crazy. I know that sometimes it gets really loud and they need a lot and they can pull in different directions. Sometimes it is really hard. I am glad that the inners are being heard. They are precious and important and so are you.  :grouphug:

I've got a hypervigilant 9 year old in here in charge of self-care and medication.

The inners are definitely real. I read in a book about IFS that everybody has inners or parts, it's just that some people, such as those of us who have experienced trauma, are more aware of them.

Notalone's right. The inners are precious and important, and so are you. I'm glad they're being heard. :grouphug:

Hope and notalone, thank you so much for being here, for reading, for believing and valuing and caring about me in my confusing multiplicity. 

Snowdrop, I have been investigating IFS online a bit in the past few days.  I can't take in very much at a time.  The basic concept that multiplicity is in the nature of the mind really resonates with me, but the idea that it's a good and healthy thing goes against what I've been conditioned to believe and refutes a lot of what has often been considered evidence of my fundamental defectiveness and insanity.  So although I can perceive the rightness and value and health and sanity of embracing my multiplicity, doing so is turning out to be a real struggle for me.  I wish that I could organise my thoughts and lose this fear I have of discussing the specifics of my parts, defining them and formally attaching them to their names and possibly even their pictures.  I think it could help but it feels so overwhelming.

Bach, you have begun the process of "embracing your multiplicity" when you are kind and tender to your inners, when they are given a voice. Take it slowly. You are doing good work.

Thank you, not alone  :grouphug:

There's some interesting stuff going on in here. It feels like a huge overwhelming responsibility, but it can be so helpful to understand more about who is reacting and why, and what I can do to soothe and care for them so that we can all live a less uncomfortable and more enjoyable life.

 :hug:

I'm finally starting to make progress in recovering from my physical sickness, and Middle B isn't very happy about that.  I'm doing the best I can with that.  I suppose she is, too, but it's all very, very hard.  I had an insight about that earlier, can't quite remember but it was something like that Middle B is the one who only feels safe when she's sick.  I'm thinking now that Middle B is also the one who carries the chronic severe depression. 

Content warning:  Drug talk.











It's also Middle B who believes that the only thing that ever gives any relief at all is drugging myself with painkillers, marijuana or food.  She knows those things are completely unreliable, that they don't always work, that they sometimes make us sick either right away or when they wear off, and that it's always very, very dangerous to have too much of them, but also believes that seeking possible relief those things might provide is almost always worth the risks and consequences.  It's Middle B who feels that we can't successfully function in the world without smoking pot and who always, always, always wants to do it and will choose or even trick me into doing it even at times when the rest of us know it's not necessary or sometimes outright counterproductive.  It's never difficult to impose boundaries with other drugs, and though boundaries with food are more difficult they have gotten much easier than they used to be, but boundaries around cannabis use are a constant struggle not matter how much sense they make or how much they ultimately benefit me.

Is it possible Middle B likes these things because they sometimes make you sick, not just as a relief? I just wonder because you said earlier that she only feels safe when she's sick. It sounds like the world must be a scary place for her.

I feel a lot of compassion for you and Middle B.  :grouphug:

Quote from: Snowdrop on January 31, 2020, 03:59:48 PM
Is it possible Middle B l likes these things because they sometimes make you sick, not just as a relief? I just wonder because you said earlier that she only feels safe when she's sick.

Thank you, Snowdrop  :grouphug: This is interesting, and I think it is very much the case.   I think from her perspective, either they're going to make her feel better in some way (make life more fun or pleasurable, or at least less uncomfortable or painful,) or they'll make her sick so that she can retreat into a state that is some degree or another of uncomfortable and unpleasant but is familiar and feels safe. 

An insight I had yesterday speaking to my therapist is that I probably had a lot of stress and anxiety about having to keep up with the family when I was a child.  I had an older brother, and my mother and stepfather never made any extra allowances for the fact that I was younger and smaller.  I had to try to keep up both physically and mentally, or there would be comments or jokes that suggested I was weak, lazy, malingering or mentally defective.  In truth, there were probably excessive demands being made on me, especially physically.  Middle B has a lot of reasons for preferring to be sick, and I have a lot of reasons for fighting against being sick, and we are constantly in conflict.  I love her, I know she's in pain and this isn't her fault, but I don't know how to deal with her.  Most of the time she just flat-out doesn't believe me.

That makes a lot of sense. I've had parts use sickness as well.

When you said that a lot of the time Middle B doesn't believe you, it made me wonder if she knows how old you are. Is it possible she thinks she's still in that situation, and you're the age you were then? Ignore this thought if it's not helpful. :hug:

Bach and Middle B,

First, sending care to both of you. Sounds like you are feeling a lot of turmoil and that is so hard.

In my case, I was safe from SA when I was sick. Just thought I would mention it in case you had a similar situation.

:hug:

Snowdrop, I think that Middle B sees me as a sort of parental figure, not her mother, but some kind of mother-adjacent figure.  A foster mother, maybe, something like that.  She knows that I say I love her, and that sometimes I'm nice to her and that feels good, but she doesn't trust any of it.  I think she believes that I mean well but that I can't help her because I'm not her mother and her mother doesn't love her.  None of her family loves her.  No one REALLY loves her, so I can't possibly be any different, especially because she's not exactly real and she doesn't want to be here. 

I don't really understand that IFS stuff about exiles and managers and firefighters.  Sometimes I think I'm just playing here, the same way that I used writing fictional stories about relationships to salve my loneliness when I was in my 20s. 

notalone, I don't think I was ever sexually abused.  I was exposed to a lot of information about sex from an inappropriately early age, but I haven't come across anything either internal or external to suggest that I suffered any physical sexual abuse.  The vast majority of the abuse I suffered was indirect or disguised as something else.  I didn't even know that I'd suffered any abuse at all until I was in my 40s.  That also sometimes makes me feel like I'm playing, like that nothing that happened to me was really that bad and I'm exaggerating everything for attention. 

You are not "playing." What happened to you was bad and it was so bad that you have consequences decades later. I have sometimes thought: "maybe I'm making this up for attention." Then I realize that it would be a pretty poor method of trying to get attention. There are so few people that I can tell and of those only a small handful have a degree of understanding. You are not exaggerating for attention. What happened to you is real and your feelings are real and significant.

As far as Middle B not trusting your love, that makes sense. I believe that over time she will come to trust and accept your care.

I completely agree with Notalone. You're not playing, or exaggerating in order to get attention. What happened to you was so bad that it's impacting on your life in this way years later. :hug:

I don't believe any of you.

Also Bach is really hung up on that sexual abuse thing. She's been trying since I came along to figure out if I had sexual abuse or whatever but I didn't. I guess some weird stuff happened to Bach with sex when she was "Younger" but as far as I can tell, for Bach that means she was already grown up but as not grown up as she is now.  That has nothing to do with me. Anyway, I guess she's afraid that we might "suddenly remember" something some time like we "suddenly remembered" being smooshed or our mom choking me that time. Suddenly? Pffff. I always remembered that stuff. But I'm supposed to trust Bach? She's just going to find my mother and give me back to her. That's what they always do. They say they want to help but they always find my mother and give me back to her.

THIS IS A STUPID WORLD AND I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE

I'm so sorry you went through those things, Middle B.

Middle B, it is okay that you don't believe us. If you don't believe this or can't take it in, that is okay too. I am sorry bad things happened to you. I care about you. I'm glad you are writing on this forum and letting us know your thoughts and feelings.

So, I've figured out that the reason it's so hard for me to help Middle B is that she's the one of us that has the greatest trauma burdens with the fewest coping methods to help herself and least faith in anyone else's ability or willingness to help her.  She's got all her own trauma, plus all the trauma of SE and Little B, but unlike SE she is not operating completely unaware of possibilities for escape (i.e., drugs or suicide, both of which she was exposed to in the family), and she is quickly losing the familial and social/cultural benefits of the doubt allowed to cute little children, especially female ones, that gave Little B a modicum of protection, but is still too young to have much agency even for all that she is left unsupervised so much of the time.  It was Middle B who became convinced that the world is a hostile unreliable place and that nobody will ever really be able to help. 

I wasn't sure for a while whether there was a clear delineation between Middle B and Lizzy B or whether they were even really separate parts from each other.  SE and Little B aren't really separate parts from Middle B.  I think they're more like Middle B's inners, which is why Little B never talks anymore and why Middle B has things that are all her own now.  I think Lizzy B is separate, though.  Just now I tried to write out her origin story but I started getting panicky again.  I already had a little panicky spell a little while ago when I was reflecting on thoughts about Middle B's existential problem that I had during this morning's meditation and decided to write them out.  Writing this had calmed me down until I started on that story but I don't have the energy to quell that and keep going.  Maybe later or another time.  I think all this was precipitated by the fact that Middle B isn't ready to not be sick anymore even though the rest of us are, so I need to think of some ways to take care of and comfort her that aren't drugs or sweets. 

That makes a lot of sense.

Notalone recently posted a link to a blog that includes lots of self-care ideas: https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13064.msg97112#msg97112 (https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13064.msg97112#msg97112). Might Middle B like any of these? Just a thought. :hug:

Quote from: Snowdrop on February 02, 2020, 03:04:39 PM
That makes a lot of sense.

Notalone recently posted a link to a blog that includes lots of self-care ideas: https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13064.msg97112#msg97112 (https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13064.msg97112#msg97112). Might Middle B like any of these? Just a thought. :hug:

Thanks for that link, Snowdrop.  Middle B doesn't like anything right now.  She thinks that the rest of us think she's the problem and want her to go away.  She doesn't want to deal with the big scary world but she doesn't want to be left alone by herself either.  She doesn't believe for one second that I don't blame her and want to eradicate her.  Life is nearly intolerable but she's afraid of death. 

Thank you, also, both Snowdrop and notalone, for acknowledging and responding to Middle B.  She was really scared after she posted because I know I'm not supposed to say that stuff and she thought people would be angry or go away and stop caring.  It's extremely difficult to reassure her, but she's communicating with me and although she is really struggling, we're hanging in here and not melting down.  Your consistent caring responses really help!  :hug:

I wasn't angry with Middle B. She's been through a lot, and her reaction was completely understandable. She's precious, irrespective of whether she believes me saying that, and I care about both of you. :hug:

Hi Middle B. My name is Jo. I am 11. I want you to know that I used to have really big feelings and I didn't trust anyone. I can't write more because I'd have to put TW (trigger warning). It is so hard to be alone. Although I sometimes feel alone now, it isn't as bad as it used to be. I don't want to write a lot about me, but I feel bad that you are so alone and I have felt that too.

From,
Jo
p.s. If you want to write back to me you may, but you don't have to if you don't want to.

Hi Jo  :wave: 

Are you scared all the time?  The worst part isn't being alone, it's being scared all the time.  Aaaaaaallll the tiiiiiiiime  :fallingbricks:

Hi Middle B,
My biggest feelings were anger. In fact one time I really wanted to break my therapist's window. I still feel angry sometimes but it isn't consuming now. (Sometimes I feel scared, but I don't let anyone know.) We have others who feel scared all the time. That is a really awful feeling. What do you do when you feel scared? Some of ours lay on the floor and cover up with a blanket.

This is a different topic. Are there certain clothes you like to wear? I like overalls or really big flannel shirts.

From,
Jo

I'm always scared. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, but I'm always always always scared. Scared scared scared.  And if I'm not scared I'm happy and I don't pay enough attention and when I don't pay enough attention I do something wrong and something bad happens and then I'm scared again! I So even not being scared is scary!

I like to wear warm fuzzy things. I also like Bach's pretty shawl that her friend made for her. We wore that yesterday to the therapist even though it wasn't cold. The therapist is hard. I don't like it. Why do you like overalls?

Middle B:
I am so sorry you feel scared all the time. I wish I could be by you. I would put my arm around you. That's what I do for Hope, who is five. I'm not very good at the comfort thing, but I think it helps her.

Yes, seeing the therapist is hard. Do you like your therapist? I like mine, but we're getting a new one. I'm really sad.

Fuzzy things can feel comforting. I like to wear overalls because I feel a little safer when I wear those.

I wish I could take the scared away from you.

From,
Jo

I was thinking of you, Bach, so I thought I'd offer a hug. :hug:

Quote from: Snowdrop on February 18, 2020, 01:34:29 PM
I was thinking of you, Bach, so I thought I'd offer a hug. :hug:

Thank you, Snowdrop.  I really appreciate you thinking of me :hug: I'm still here but really struggling with my health and no energy for anything.  Hoping for improvement soon.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're able to be gentle with yourself, and that you feel better soon. Sending much love and hugs. :hug:

 :grouphug:

Hi Jo  :wave: Look! I wasn't scared today so I drew a bird. I just wanted to tell you.

Hi everyone else tooooooooooooo


https://imgur.com/a/5VEefK2

I like the way you've drawn the feathers.

Wow. You are a real artist. Your picture is amazing!!!!!

I like how you have a secret message. I figured out how to read it.

I am so glad that you had some time when you weren't afraid.

Jo

Quote from: notalone on February 23, 2020, 04:24:12 PM
Wow. You are a real artist. Your picture is amazing!!!!!

I like how you have a secret message. I figured out how to read it.

I am so glad that you had some time when you weren't afraid.

Jo

Hi Jo  :wave: I'm afraid again today.  Really really really afraid. I tried to draw again but nothing will come out.  I'm scared I'm going to cry but right now I'm not allowed to.  I hope you are okay.

Who said you can't cry? It is okay to cry.  I cry sometimes. I cried a lot when we left our therapist. I'm sorry you are afraid. Would it help at all if you pictured me holding your hand or with my arm around your shoulders? That's what I do for Hope. If I was with you that is what I would do.  :grouphug:
Jo

Yes, it helps!!!!  It's not safe to cry where we are now.  Bach is not at home and she needs me to be quiet  :'( :'( :'(  She says it will be okay if I just wait but it's hard to wait. I'm sorry.  I'm sorry.  I'm sorry. I didn't mean to! :'( :'( :'(

You didn't do anything wrong. Sometimes we have to wait and it is really hard. A few weeks ago NotAlone was at work. I'm not usually around when she working, but for some reason I was. I was thinking of leaving our therapist and what I wanted to say to him. I felt really sad and teary. NotAlone told me as soon as we got home, I could write. Yes, it is hard to wait, but sometimes we have to. You didn't do anything wrong.  :hug:
Jo

I really want to die right now. This isn't a suicide thing. I'm safe and I'm not going to do anything. I'm just so tired from everything being so hard and hurting so much and from how much work it takes just to do the simplest things to get along in this world that I wish I could go to sleep all warm and snug and comfortable and just not ever have to wake up into this pain ever again.

I hope it's okay for me to say that. I read the guidelines and it says posts about wanting to commit suicide aren't allowed but again, that's not what this is. I don't want to commit suicide. Earlier today I wrote a post about wanting to self-harm and just writing it helped so I didn't post it, but the thought of not posting this makes it all hurt even more. So please forgive/edit/delete if this is improper but I just needed for someone to hear.

My dear Bach,
I understand wanting to have relief from all the pain. Sometimes it really does feel unbearable. Please know that I care about you and all the parts. You are not alone. You are precious and you are loved.  :grouphug:

I understand that feeling too. I echo what Notalone says. You and your parts are precious and much loved. Here with you, and I care about you. :grouphug:

hey, bach,

i get it, totally.  so very tired of the struggle, the battle, the neg. feelings.  i'm glad you were able to write.  we're here for you, sweetie.  please, take care of yourself as best you can.  just make it thru today.  glad you didn't SH, either.  sending love and a hug full of whatever gets you from one moment to the next - caring, support, knowing that you are heard, that you matter, you are valid and important.  :hug: :hug: :hug:

I wrote a post yesterday but it disappeared. Still not in a good state on the inside, although current circumstances force me to hide it. That is so very hard. I'm a lot better at it than I used to be. Yesterday was good but it took unbelievable amounts of effort. Fake it 'til you make it? I'll be home later today and hopefully being able to let down my guard and just be my miserable self will be enough of a relief and I won't take painkillers that will make me feel better for the evening but even worse tomorrow morning. Tomorrow, my birthday, on which I will be alone and uncelebrated. What, really, is there to celebrate anyway?

Friends, thank you as always for the support. I don't deserve it. I give nothing, just soak it up. I'm a worthless narcissist just like my mother, just like her mother. At least I stopped the cycle by not having children. I wish I was dead.

dear bach, i'm sorry you're in so much pain.  i really am.  to my mind, tho, i don't believe you're a narc like your M.  she'd never post here, never admit her stuff, never share her vulnerability like you do.  i've had too many narcs in my life, like sister, husband, daughter, and therapist, and i've seen how they behave over and over, and it's not like you. 

even if you don't have the energy or wherewithal to to do anything but absorb right now, you did go out of your way to thank people for their support.  that's you, giving out something positive to the world around you.  narcs don't do that, not in any real way.  they'll do what they have to do to make the world think they're good people, wonderful people, exceptional people, sucking everyone dry around them.  you are someone in pain right now, and i want you to know that i hear you and that you matter.

and, of course, happy happy birthday!!!   :cake: :phoot: :party:  there's your own little celebration!  it may not be much, but it comes from the heart.  i love birthdays, and always want to celebrate them.  so, just know that someone is partying for you on your day, ok?  sending love and a hug filled with birthday wishes and good cheer. :hug:

I just got home from a very difficult trip.  I was having a really good trip, but then I got triggered and although I dealt with the trigger well at the time it happened, I ended up in an excruciating semi-flashbacked state that provoked the past few days of frantic posts.

Notalone, Snowdrop and san, I can't thank you enough for your responses to these posts.   :grouphug:  I was in a situation that was fraught with potential danger.  Having this forum and getting such understanding and caring responses enabled me to keep myself safe, and to keep enough control of the situation to prevent it from spiralling into the irrevocable nightmare territory that similar circumstances have produced in the past. 

Now that I'm home, I'm much calmer and more rational, but I am so tired.  So, so, so very, very tired.  Thank goodness tonight I can sleep in my own bed.  And thank goodness for all of you here  :grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug: Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I'll figure out tomorrow tomorrow. 

It makes sense that you are really tired with all you have been through. I hope you get some good, peaceful rest.

I know you're not feeling good about your birthday, but I am glad you are here and I celebrate you. . . all of you.  :cake: :grouphug:

Quote from: Bach on February 25, 2020, 12:10:23 PM
I don't deserve it. I give nothing, just soak it up. I'm a worthless narcissist just like my mother, just like her mother.

I don't know if you are still feeling like this, but it is not true. I have felt your care and received compassionate, thoughtful words from you on many occasions.

I would like to send you fireworks to celebrate your birthday, and to celebrate you.
:fireworks: :fireworks:
I'm glad you're here. :grouphug:

glad you're home and safe, bach.  hope your birthday went well.  you deserve to be celebrated! :yes:

sending love and a hug filled with care, comfort, and support.  hang tough, ok? :hug:

Thank you all for the birthday wishes, but it's been a very rough day.   Something I didn't even mention was the unexpected appearance of my mother.  Yesterday morning before I got home, I checked my email on my phone and discovered that she had sent me an e-gift card for my birthday.  That was a mild surprise because although she always sends me some kind of greeting, her history with regard to giving gifts tends to be both inconsistent and inconsiderate.  I guess I thought that she wouldn't send a gift this year because of Thanksgiving when she tried and tried and tried to engage me somehow and I stayed neutral-polite, but, well, okay, e-gift certificate.  Her birthday is tomorrow, and I figured I would do what I always do when she sends a gift, which is send back an e-card thanking her for the gift and wishing her a happy birthday.  But then when I got home yesterday afternoon, I discovered that she had left a message on the answering machine for my home number on Friday after I had already gone away.  I used to always check my home phone messages from the road, but I hardly ever do it anymore because I get so few calls on that number that aren't junk.  She didn't say what she wanted, just asked me to call her back.  The thing is, my mother hasn't called me in years, even before I went very low contact with her. 

So anyway.  I was anxious wondering what she wanted, and had to think for a while how to respond.  I was certainly not going to call her, not then exhausted from my travelling, not ever, because, no, just no.  I have the letter I wrote her last year, but that was written in anticipation of a request to visit her, not just to give her a phone call, so not appropriate.  Finally, I sent her an email that thanked her for the gift, mentioned I'd been away, acknowledged receipt of her phone message, and told her that email is a better way to reach me these days.  I feel very strongly that that was the best response I could send, so i wasn't worried about that, but I was quite anxious wondering what she wanted and how or if she would respond.  Then I mentioned her message to my brother when he called this afternoon to wish me happy birthday, and he told me that when he saw her last week, she asked him how I was and he mentioned that I'd had some health problems this winter.  So, mystery solved.  She called me because she wanted to vulture on my health problems.  This took away the anxiety and replaced it with depression.  And My Person had to work late tonight.  So I've been alone self-medicating with food all day, which is pretty much the response I've had all my life to dealing with my mother even if it took me until 2014 to realise it.  I feel pretty terrible but I think I managed to stop just in time to have a prayer of getting some sleep tonight and not being too sick to do strength training in the morning.  Huzzar huzzar.  At least I'm not actively wishing I was dead anymore.  I cannot (expletive deleted) believe what a mess the past several days have been, but thank goodness I'm not feeling like that anymore. 

I wish Middle B would come out and draw.

hey, bach,  maybe middle b is waiting in the background, waiting to feel safe and strong enough to come out and draw.  i think that you thinking about it is a sign of progress.

sorry about all the anxiety with your mom and everything.  i glad for you that you're not getting entangled, made the decision you made that you felt good about.  this foo stuff is so tricky, but it sounds like you're doing what you need to do to take care of you. 

as far as the food thing, that'll pass in its time.  i truly believe that as we keep healing, our old ways of comforting ourselves will begin to diminish because we'll find new ways, healthier ways to do so.  i'm glad you're not feeling like you were - hang tough, bach - hangin' right beside you!  love and hugs :hug:

Quote from: Bach on February 27, 2020, 03:14:35 AM
  Finally, I sent her an email that thanked her for the gift, mentioned I'd been away, acknowledged receipt of her phone message, and told her that email is a better way to reach me these days. 

Fantastic and wise way to handle this situation. I know it was really hard to hear from her AND you dealt with it in a way that kept your boundaries. You didn't get sucked into her stuff. The ways that you dealt with your mom on Thanksgiving and your birthday; way to go.  :cheer:

I completely understand eating to deal with feelings. That is an issue for me too.

Love to you, Middle B, and all.  :grouphug:

I think you handled the situation really well. :grouphug:

I'm angry at my mother for not responding to my email.  I know I'm probably better off not hearing from her, but I'm angry because it feels so unfair that I'm still so vulnerable.  I never even actually spoke to her, and still she drove me to make myself ill.  I really want to write to her telling her that she should not ask my brother how I am, and if she wants to know how I am, she should email me.  Not that she ever would email me.  She knows that emailing me would give me power.

Middle B wants out, but she's really trapped in here.  She wants to draw and do crafts and create, but she's just too scared.  And Lizzy B wants to tell you all about her (our) special friend, but wow, would THAT be a complicated endeavour!

I love you, friends  :hug: :hug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Love to you, Bach. :grouphug:

i can relate, bach.  before going nc with my D, i had the same kinds of reactions when she wouldn't respond to me or acknowledge me.  it felt like torture. and, i would get sick about it as well.  as with your mother, it was all about power.  i'm sorry you're going through this.  it really isn't fair.  unfortunately, it is reality.  not one that i would ever choose, but it's reality anyway.  ugh! :thumbdown:

we love you right back, sweetie - all the parts.  i don't doubt that as your healing continues, they will find the strength and enough safety to come out and do what they love, what they want to do.  in their time.  just keep going, ok?  here's a hug filled with the strength you need to continue one step and another and another . . .  :hug:

Bach,  :hug:. I hear your anger at your mother. Ugh!

Middle B, I'm sad that you are feeling so scared. When you feel like it, I hope you can do some art. You are creative. You are special.

Lizzy B, I understand about complicated relationships. If you ever want to tell about it, I want to hear. If you decide not to share, that's okay too.

:grouphug: To all your Littles from all mine.

Dear friends, I have a huge problem and I don't know what to do about it.  You know how you hear stories about people who regret that they didn't tell their parent they loved them before the parent died, or people who feel better/more resolved/whatever because they did tell the parent they loved them etc?  Like, you're supposed to somehow get to a point with the miserable abusive parent where you've "healed" enough or "put it behind you" or "forgiven" and can find some kind of love for the person who is responsible for your being here in this world.  Well, I realised a long time ago that I was never going to find any love for my mother, and was never going to regret not telling her, but I realised today that I will regret it if I never tell her that I hate her.  Telling her I hate her seems like an idea as unwise as it is utterly compelling.  I'm distressed by the fact that I'm having muscle spasms on the left side of my body that seem to be connected to my emotional turmoil over my mother's recent active intrusion into my life. 

of course, i can't tell you what to do.  you'll have to find your way to that decision on your own.  what i can say is that if you are true to yourself, taking care of yourself, that, in my opinion, is the best thing you can do for your world and those in it who are important to you.

these kinds of decisions are some of the most difficult we face.  i support you in whatever you have to do, and i hope you can be as kind as possible to yourself.  sending love and hugs :hug:

Quote from: Bach on March 05, 2020, 12:17:08 AM
Dear friends, I have a huge problem and I don't know what to do about it.  You know how you hear stories about people who regret that they didn't tell their parent they loved them before the parent died, or people who feel better/more resolved/whatever because they did tell the parent they loved them etc?  Like, you're supposed to somehow get to a point with the miserable abusive parent where you've "healed" enough or "put it behind you" or "forgiven" and can find some kind of love for the person who is responsible for your being here in this world.  Well, I realised a long time ago that I was never going to find any love for my mother, and was never going to regret not telling her, but I realised today that I will regret it if I never tell her that I hate her.  Telling her I hate her seems like an idea as unwise as it is utterly compelling.  I'm distressed by the fact that I'm having muscle spasms on the left side of my body that seem to be connected to my emotional turmoil over my mother's recent active intrusion into my life.

Hi Bach,
I can totally understand where you're coming from. I didn't love my father, so there's no way I could have told him that I did. It would not have felt genuine and thus would not have been healing. I did hate him, but fell short of telling him that. I just didn't feel the need to, I guess. What I did do was give him a letter explaining why I was leaving him and not making any commitments toward a future relationship (effectively going NC, but not explicitly closing the door forever). It helped me tremendously to tell him how I really felt, and how I was affected by his actions (though he never apologized or even acknowledged what I had written, and that's how things were left when he kicked the bucket). I don't regret how I handled things, and he's been dead for years. I think that letter helped me reclaim myself a bit, and it was highly therapeutic. Just figured I'd share what worked well in my case, FWIW.  :hug:

What you might want to consider is to do something powerfully symbolic to you that indicates your true feelings. This is something I tried recently, for my long-deceased m, who amongst a 'gallery' of abusers, caused me by far the most far-ranging damage which has often played havoc with my attempts to 'heal' etc. from or make sense of senseless acts which I can't forgive, understand, or tolerate.

What I ended up doing recently was writing a letter in the 'recovery letters' section of this forum, but deleting it shortly after when I realized it would still bug me by its being archived  where I might run into it again. As no one had responded to it anyway, I took this as a 'message from the universe' to destroy it. I've done this with other letters, notes, and even pictures by just burning them in a fire ring I have in the yard.

So that may or may not be something you'd want to consider -- creating a symbolic way to part company but still express your anger. When I took the action to remove my letter, it felt good to have had at least that symbolic release.

My hope is that you will find a way to bring you some measure of peace.  :hug:

Snowdrop, notalone, san, saylor and woodsgnome, thank you so much for your replies in these past several days about this subject.  I've been processing, processing, processing, and it's very difficult and painful, but I've also still been continuing to function and take care of myself, which is amazing because I used to have to be in a pit of self-destruction for weeks or even months after a Mom-related trauma before I could do that. 

I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, but I've identified a few key points that I'd have to put in any potential letter I'd write to her or personal manifesto that I'd write to myself to try to sick out some of the massive dose of poison that spewed out at me from my answering machine the day before my birthday after being trapped in the recording chip unheard and gathering weight for four days before that.  One is that I need to acknowledge her damage and her pain, and express the empathy I do have for the suffering child she once was, and then explain why none of that excuses, absolves or even particularly mitigates her abuse of me, and I need to do that without angry or passive-aggressive language.  Another is that I realise that no matter what I say or do, she will still find a way to absolve herself and make it my fault, but that none of the things she needs to believe to be able to live with herself take anything away from what I know is true. 

Another thing I need to do is write to my old therapist, the one I saw for 17 years who was only a little younger than my mother, who allowed a possibly somewhat overly attached relationship to develop between us that made it extremely difficult for me to deal with when she retired.  I need to tell her that I'm not angry at her anymore.  That I now understand she let the relationship develop that way even though she was mostly aware of the transference (and countertransference) because she knew she wouldn't have been able to help me otherwise, and that even though it made the end of things rough I know it was for the best and I deeply appreciate it.  Also that she did a good job helping me find another therapist to work with, and that I was right when I speculated that a change of perspectives in therapy might benefit me.

I am so tired of being so fragile and messed up, and being unable to control my reaction to triggers.  So tired of having pointless conflicts with people I care about because I'm so busy trying not to freak out that things I would at other times be able to shrug off make me freak out even worse, and losing whole afternoons to being physically ill as a result of these conflicts.  So tired of guilt and shame and fear, and having to convince myself that it was no big deal to them and I don't have to be afraid to face them tomorrow.  So deeply, mortally tired of all of it.

i hear you - am dealing with the same, and it sucks!  love and hugs, bach :hug:

Such a weight you are carrying. I wish I could take it away for you.  :grouphug:

Hello, my friends  :grouphug:  I hope you are all holding up okay through the current madness.  I'm having an absolutely terrible time with it.  It started on Monday when I got into a weird little altercation about someone who was probably hiding anxiety behind bravado about not being scared, and who laughed at me when I asked if we could please not talk about it.  That's what prompted my post on Monday about not being able to control my reaction to triggers. 

I've been an absolute mess all week.  On some days I've been so anxious I can barely even eat.  I've lost some weight (which by itself isn't a terrible thing, but this is definitely not a good way to do it).  I've been doing a lot of nail-biting, skin-picking and medicating.  I'm trying really hard to hide this from everyone, so no one laughs at me or gets angry or taunts me.  This morning I realised that I'm basically in a state of emotional flashback to when I was a little kid and my mother would get alarmist about stuff on the news and talk in front of me about the awful things that were going to happen.  Everything was terrifying and every bit of bad news was going to turn out to be a horrible disaster that would kill us all.  I remember in particular when President Nixon resigned.  I was about 9, and my mother talked about how Gerald Ford was going to get us into a nuclear war "by tomorrow."  I don't even know how long it took before I stopped waking up in a panic every morning wondering whether we were in a nuclear war yet and if I was going to die that day.  That's exactly how I feel now, filled with terror and having nowhere to turn for reassurance.  I guess my mother must have felt that way, too.  That makes me feel guilty about being angry with her, and that makes my anxiety even worse.  I'm hoping that all this won't last too long, but if it does, I'm hoping that I will be able to stop panicking every time I'm faced with the slightest little thing about what's going on.  It doesn't help that the weather has been way too warm for the time of year, and everything is growing like it's spring already.  That unsettles me at the best of times.  I feel like a tiny frightened woodland creature who has suddenly found herself in the middle of a sea of hot asphalt with nowhere to hide.  I'm still more-or-less functioning, which is good, but it's very difficult and exhausting, and I have many intrusive thoughts about wishing that I could just go to sleep and not wake up.  And I can't even watch baseball because that's cancelled too!

Bach, I am sorry that you are feeling this so intensely and that it is so triggering. Amazing that you are functioning. Exhausting for sure.  :hug:

You're doing well to keep functioning, Bach. I completely get how all of this chimes in with past fears.

Is there anything you can do to self-soothe during this time? Maybe make more use of animal buddies? I know that over the past week I've found EFT (tapping) tremendously useful for dealing with the fear and anxiety over all this. I don't know if that's something that might help you.

Take care of yourself, Bach. Know that I care about you, and that I'm here. Sending you love and big hugs. :bighug:

Thank you for the replies, notalone and Snowdrop. :grouphug:

I'm trying really hard not to be a total basket case, but it's hard.  I just replied in another thread about medical trauma, and it occurred to me that those childhood experiences are also probably echoing and making this situation even harder to deal with.  I know that everyone else is struggling too and I'm sorry to keep whining but I feel completely broken and not fit to live.

Snowdrop, I got a tapping app, and tried it out.  I wasn't sure if I was doing it right, tapping the right places and all, but the feeling of trying to help myself instead of just sinking further and further into anxiety and depression is a plus, so I'm going to try it some more.

Best wishes to everyone and please, please, please, may this pass soon and life go back to normal...whatever that is.

Bach, you're not whining. Things are objectively hard at the moment, and we're your friends. I'm glad you're here.

Which tapping app do you have? I downloaded the Tapping Solution app, and in the Crisis Support/First Aid section there's a guided tapping on releasing anxiety from the current madness. It also has a Military/Veteran section, which includes some PTSD type tappings. I've found these helpful too. :hug:

Hi Bach, I am also sending you a hug, and I agree with Snowdrop that you're not whining - and you're amongst friends here.   :grouphug:  I'm also glad you're here.

Hope  :)

I agree with others, you are not whining. You are welcome to talk about this and I am happy to listen. Sometimes our fears come from the past and are triggered. This--coronavirus---is real, is now, and is scary. The cptsd makes it even more challenging to manage the feelings.

I'm a mess and I can't express myself at all right now.  I want to write.  I want to reply to posts.  I want to check on friends.  But I can't, I'm locked up tight in my tired anxious mind, the one that can be stilled and quieted by various methods when I'm awake but which presents me with awful panic dreams all night.  I wake up sweaty and queasy and shaking, and I struggle to get out of bed even as I fear being asleep.  This coronavirus thing might kill me even if I don't get it  :fallingbricks:

Lots of love to all my friends out there  :grouphug:  I hope you are all physically safe and healthy, and are managing the rest of it.  I'm thinking of you even though I'm even less able to participate than usual. 

I'm so sorry you feel like this right now, Bach. It makes me want to put a soft blanket round your shoulders and wrap you up in a big, safe hug (if that feels ok to you).

Thinking of you, Bach, and sending lots of love, big hugs and support. :grouphug:

i feel just like snowdrop towards you - just want to gather you in in a caring, gentle embrace, let you know we're here, we've got you, we won't let go.

this situation is like no other in my lifetime - the anxiety, fear, worry, they all take a toll, and it can feel too heavy to move under them at times.  you're not the only one.  sending  a hug filled with love and comfort :hug:

Bach, I'm sorry you are in such distress and that sleep is even more disturbing. I join with the others and would like to wrap you in a warm blanket, hold you, read some safe stories to you. You are not alone, my heart is with you.

I'm having a lot of trouble writing lately, or really, communicating at all, but I keep thinking of things that I need to examine with regard to finding ways to modify some of my problematic daily behaviours.  One of them is "I do X because it gives me a reason to hate myself."  I don't want to try to tackle that right now but I'm noting it down here because it feels significant and like something I should remember to work with instead of just letting it float away like it's just another one of those things I think of a million times a day that seem significant when they pop into my head but don't stand up to any scrutiny.

This being human thing is hard.  I'm lucky to have a really good Person to be pseudoquarantined with here in the house, but in my head I am locked up alone with the emptiness and anger of everything I feel about my parents.  During the first few weeks of this, emotionally I felt like I was back in the summer house under the black piano of my mother's relationship with her mother, but recently (and coincidental with a random flurry of menopausal cycle activity) I feel much more like someone I don't even know who is furious looking back and feels hopeless looking forward. 

My Person is awesome and very much the best person for me to be in this situation with, but I have another Person and it hurts not to be able to see them.  I should explain about my People some time, but it's really complicated and people tend to judge it harshly when they don't understand all the nuances of the situation.

 :hug:

QuoteI should explain about my People some time, but it's really complicated and people tend to judge it harshly when they don't understand all the nuances of the situation.

Only if you want to. You don't owe us anything at all - only share if it's helpful to you. I will say, tho, that I seriously doubt you'd get any negative feedback. Our individual trauma and resulting damage makes each of us unique in how we deal with emotional ties.

Quote from: Three Roses on April 19, 2020, 03:22:09 PM

QuoteI should explain about my People some time, but it's really complicated and people tend to judge it harshly when they don't understand all the nuances of the situation.

Only if you want to. You don't owe us anything at all - only share if it's helpful to you. I will say, tho, that I seriously doubt you'd get any negative feedback. Our individual trauma and resulting damage makes each of us unique in how we deal with emotional ties.

I do want to.  It's complicated though, a very long story.  As briefly as possible, My Person is my husband/best friend who I live with, and my Other Person is a longstanding intimate relationship that my husband understands and accepts.  My Other Person and I are damage twins, having had very similar childhood experiences of parental neglect and abuse.  He also has a friend-partner with whom he lives who cannot relate to those traumas, and the whole thing works because we need each other in a very compelling way, but we are not well-suited to living together and also need our stabilising day-to-day friend-partners.  It has never been ideal, but it has been going on for a very long time and has worked better for a hundred reasons than any of our conventional relationships ever did.  He lives in another state so we don't see each other very often, but we stay in touch and see each other when we can, sometimes planned in advance, sometimes on very short notice responsive to his work-travel schedule.  Now we have no idea when we will be able to see each other again, cannot even plan for a future visit, and it's incredibly painful.  I feel like a jerk moaning about it, since I know how lucky I am to have such a great friend to live with and there are many people locked down in much worse situations, but there it is. 

No judgement here, Bach. You're not moaning, and I understand it hurting. :hug:

Thank you, Snowdrop :hug:

Life is really really hard right now.  I've been doing some good work on building positive habits, but I'm in a cycle where I'm abusing food and medication to motivate myself to do it.  I have to get my eating under control because my carelessness with my dietary restrictions is messing with my physical health, and I need to stop just smoking pot every time I feel bad.  Smoking pot helps me do constructive things by giving me a mood boost, but if I do it too much especially in the wrong part of my hormonal cycle, it starts to be less of a mood boost and more of an agitating factor that triggers me a little bit and forces me to do constructive things to calm myself down.  After a while, this becomes a downward spiral and that can get very ugly because after a while, it becomes more and more anxiety and agitation and less and less benefit.  Then also, of course, more and more munchies.  For the many years that I illegally smoked whatever marijuana I could get from wherever I could get it, this was a huge problem to which I lost big chunks of every year of my life.  The coming of medical marijuana to my state a few years ago was a big step forward for me, and has enabled me to much better manage my marijuana use for more benefit and less compulsive consumption, but quite frankly, I've fallen back into compulsiveness since the lockdown began.  I've been making excuses for myself about it for a while now, and it's at the point where I must confront it, whatever that looks like.  At the very least, I need some kind of tolerance break. 

Today I feel overwhelmed.  I know what I have to do about it:  Be more careful about my dietary restrictions.  Check off as many of the daily habit items as possible.  Drink lots of water.  Hug My Person.  Hug myself.  Continue to teach all of us here in my head how to do things well and feel good about ourselves.  Don't smoke any more pot today.  Especially don't smoke any more pot today.

Bach, I wish I had something helpful to say, but my head is a mushy mess right now. I just took some sips of water and am sending you and your Littles a big hug.  :grouphug:

no judgment, bach.  we do what's best for us, no matter what form that takes.

if it's in your best interest to confront your pot intake, then all support for that.  you'll be able to do so when you're ready.  i'm a recovering drug and alcohol and cigarette addict, and it took me many stops and starts to get rid of them.  i'm not saying you're an addict, just that i understand the process of cutting back, trying to control it, getting deeper into it, stopping and starting up again.  it can be a difficult cycle to cope with. and, yes, when my stress was the highest, it was more difficult to take any steps i wanted to in my mind.  it was like my brain had a mind of its own  :Idunno:

one foot in front of the other, bach, ok?  things will work out, of that i have no doubt.  love and hugs, my dear :hug:

I am literally afraid to not be afraid.

Hello and love to my people here. I miss you but I haven't been able to communicate at all lately. The other day I had trouble finding a place where I felt safe doing a phone call with my therapist. That's increasingly a problem. And writing, forget it. The words dry up when I try to put them on the page. But I'm still out here and I think of you  :grouphug: :grouphug:

Miss you too, Bach.

I am very ready to get back into my therapist's office. I put a fan on for some "white noise."

To all of you:  :grouphug:

Thinking of you too, Bach. :grouphug:

Hello friends  :grouphug: :hug: :grouphug: :hug:  Thank you for the response.  Today was almost a better day, but some things have been against me.  I was having anxiety but I also had some energy.  Getting my heart rate up sometimes helps with my anxiety, and the weather is beautiful today, so I went out for a walk with my Person, and for the first time in probably two weeks I felt that my spirits were lifting.  Then when we were walking by the cemetery in my town, there was a funeral going on.  I guess it must have been a military person who died because just as we walked by, three soldiers raised guns and fired them into the air.  Now, fortunately, we were looking right at them when they raised their guns, so I at least had a moment to register that the shots were coming, but even so the very loud sharp noise sent me into fight-or-flight.  Then they fired twice more.  The kids inside were freaking out, not only from the noise but also from the thought of how terrifying it would have been if we hadn't seen the soldiers and the gunshots sounds had come from nowhere.  I did my best to comfort and reassure them as my Person did his best to comfort and reassure me.  Mentally, of course, I knew that I was safe and that everything was okay, but those gunshots had wrought havoc with my adrenaline response, and from down deep in my mind where fear has lived wakeful ever since I was a little baby whose mother (potential trigger in white text follows)tried to suffocate her, the doom thoughts were rising.  In particular, the feeling was "It's a beautiful day, I am coping well, everything is fine, which means something terrible is about to happen."  I used my rational mind to deal with that as best I could.  Then on the street we met someone we know from the neighbourhood who we haven't seen in a long time, and had a pleasant (appropriately socially distanced) conversation, and I felt better again.  This was very good but then we had to stop at the grocery store, and by the time we were done with that and got home I was exhausted.  I should have realised that I was shaky and needed rest, but because I had spent the past hour or so wrangling myself and powering through, when my Person asked me to help him move a table, it didn't even occur to me to ask to wait until later.  Perhaps inevitably, I fell and hurt myself.  Not seriously, but enough to finish off completely the notion of a better day.  As if that wasn't bad enough, then I had to do a therapy session on the phone, and that has been a real struggle lately.  After that, we went to the garden center to get some greens to plant, but the place we went didn't have any.  Ugh. 

I had some good things planned for this afternoon that I was looking forward to, but it was all too much.  I need to rest.  I took something for the pains from the fall and now am putting my hope on the idea that this morning's positive energy was an indication that the funk I've been in is passing, and that tomorrow might be the good day that today almost was. 

Bach, I wish I could say more, but I'm in a bad place. Would like to give you and Littles a hug.  :grouphug:

Sorry to hear things didn't go so great on your walk. That adrenal response can really cause problems (maybe this is why you felt okay to move the table too?). But it is great you were feeling positive in the morning. Rest well! :)

I can understand the gunshots being so triggering. Feeling so positive that morning sounds like a good sign though. I hope you had a better day today. :grouphug:

hey, bach,

sorry about the fall - i hope you're feeling better.

and, here's wishing you more mornings where you wake up and feel good.  love and hugs :hug:

I can't with this life.  I was holding my own until that stupid gunshot incident last week, but since then each day is worse than the day before.  I wish I could go to sleep and just not wake up.

Hi Bach,
I am so sorry to hear you're going through this, it must be really triggering and hard to cope with - I don't know what to say except that I wish there was something I could do that would help in some way - I hope that I can extend a hug of support and safety to you  :hug:
Hope  :)

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time, Bach. I would like to give you and the Littles a comforting hug if that would help in any way. :grouphug:

Bach, my heart aches that you are feeling so awful. Please know that I care.  :grouphug:

Bach, in the recent really hard time I was going through, you wrote to me: It's a really hard time right now, really scary. It will get better. It has gotten better for me even though while in the middle of it, I could not see any way that things would improve. My feelings were unbearable. Yet, what seemed eternal did end. I know it doesn't feel like it, but the way you feel now won't last forever.

Sending my care to you and your Littles.  :grouphug:

Hi, friends  :hug: :grouphug:  I really appreciate the support.  I'm just not doing well right now.  I'm wishing that my mother (trigger warning, text in white) had just killed me one of those times that she restricted my airway, instead of just messing around with it.  Hmm.  Maybe that bit of my sordid history is another element of why I'm so triggered by the stuff currently in the news.

I told my brother I'd have a socially distanced picnic lunch with him today.  I love my brother and I've missed him during this lockdown, but all he's going to want to talk about will be stuff that freaks me out.  I've promised myself a pain pill if I want one after I get back.

It is okay to set boundaries with your brother and say, "I don't want to talk about. . . "

Can see where the current situation would be very triggering to you. I've also wished I had been killed in abuse situation. It speaks to how painful all this is.  :grouphug:

Hope you feel better soon Bach. I'm certainly glad your mother didn't kill you.

Maybe you can make a list of things you can talk about with your brother that won't upset you so much? Hopefully that will help the visit go better.

I've also been really triggered by the event in question, it brought back very bad memories.

Thank you for your understanding and support, notalone, Jazzy and Three Roses  :hug: :grouphug:  I'm glad to tell you that my picnic with my brother turned out well.  It was a hard day in terms of being around things that were incidentally triggering, like people doing park maintenance with loud buzzy tools that made anxiety-provoking noises around where we ate lunch, and then someone setting off firecrackers somewhere near where we were taking a walk after lunch, but I was able to talk the children through the triggers.  Also, I've realised that not only does my brother not mind if I set boundaries around things that cause me difficulty, he actually prefers it.  He told me that he understands that I am in pain nearly all the time and that because of it I have a great deal of difficulty navigating my life and that it doesn't make him angry or upset with me if I'm in pain, but that it can be hard to deal with when he doesn't know how he can help.  So if I tell him "I can't handle discussing that today, let's find something else to talk about," he's not going to feel that I'm silencing him, but rather that I am giving him a welcome opportunity to take care of me.  So that's good. 

Trigger warning:  Current events as related to childhood trauma.  Text in white.
The current situation with the racial violence is highly triggering to me.  Everything about it touches on big scary fears that I think belong to Baby B, another inner I have become aware of.  She's around 3 to 4 years old.  Back then, my parents were still together.  They would fight all the time.  My father would throw things.  He would also storm out, slamming the door.  I don't remember very much from then, a few things here and there that possibly aren't even my own memories, but I can put together a pretty good sense of why angry people having violent conflict is so frightening even when it's not directly threatening me.  Also, because I as an adult know that I will never have to worry that what happened to George Floyd will happen to me, until yesterday when I mentioned it here, it did not occur to me that the children have been identifying with him as a victim.  Asphyxiation caused by the deliberate aggressive act of another person.  I know of twice that my mother did it to me, and once that my grandmother did.  It would not surprise me if there were other times when something like that was done to me, but even if there weren't, three times is certainly enough to explain a sensitivity I might have to this situation.  Baby B witnesses violent conflict.  A person who should have protected her storms out and leaves her alone with a person who might strangle her.  There may or may not be direct connections in my personal history between violent conflict and incidents of asphyxiation or other abuse, but it's easy enough to understand how Baby B might have learned to fear for her life in response to violent conflict. It's all mixed up together into a debilitating trauma stew.

Yesterday turned out to be very helpful even though it was difficult and exhausting.  Triggers big and small that were coming at me from all directions, and yet still I managed everything and took responsible care of myself and my parts so that I could get something good out of what otherwise might have turned into a fiasco of an outing that would have made me ill.  Today I am exhausted and not especially functional, but much calmer and less overwhelmed.  I've done some important tasks and am not wishing I was dead.  So, onward and upward.

I'm smoking too much weed again.  I had an insight yesterday that when I'm feeling the urge to smoke at excessive or inappropriate times, it has something to do with the children.  I've noticed that sometimes I don't hear them until I smoke weed, and I'm wondering whether I could find a way to interrupt the process that sends me off to regrettable puffs that I don't need by communicating with them somehow.  The medicine works so much better when I'm able to moderate, but that's not something I've ever been good at. 

Help me, kids, help me!  Middle B?  Any of you!

Bach, glad you had such an honest and helpful interaction with your brother.

It makes a lot of sense that you and your Littles are so upset/triggered now. All I know to do is to let you know that I care.

I really hate my haunted brain sometimes. I hate feeling toxic shame over my emotions, and expressing or withholding them inappropriately because of it. I hate knowing that all the crap that ever happened to me is still in my brain and that I can never get it out. I am afraid to go to sleep because of the crap in my brain and I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

Also, I HATE PHONE THERAPY AND I DON'T WANNA DO IT ANYMORE!

Hi Bach,
Just wanted to send you a safe and supportive hug, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

 :hug: :hug: :hug:
Can you perhaps just take a break from phone therapy?  :Idunno:

Quote from: Bach on June 08, 2020, 03:43:45 AM
Also, I HATE PHONE THERAPY AND I DON'T WANNA DO IT ANYMORE!

I understand that. My therapy is Skype, so at least there is the visual. For me it doesn't feel safe (especially for some Littles). Also, there are a lot of issues that are on hold because it really needs to be talked about in person. I know this is hard, Bach, and it has been going on for what feels like a really long time. My five-year-old Part, Hope, wants to take your hand and walk with you, stomping feet, and yelling "hate it, hate it hate it."

Thanks for the hugs and support, friends  :hug:  :hug: :hug:  notalone, I'm with Hope.  If I could, I would take her hand and first we would stomp around yelling "Hate it, hate it!" for a bit, and then we would laugh and skip off to get some ice cream.  Then we would blow some bubbles.

I had therapy yesterday morning, and I was really dreading it, but it turned out to be quite a productive session.  Very painful hard work, but productive.  Lots of things going on right now that are bringing stuff up, and it's not stuff I want to deal with but it does need to be dealt with, and although I'm kind of an overwhelmed wreck right now, I have at least temporarily stopped feeling like I need to cease to exist.  But I am going to skip my Thursday session this week to go see my Other, because right now I need that more than anything. 

I'm glad you had a productive session. I can understand it being painful. Sending you love and big hugs. :hug:

Hang in there Bach! :)

Right now I am feeling overwhelmed with sadness and pain. There is nothing immediately wrong, I have had a good day and I am in a safe and calm place with a person I love, but on the inside I am distressed. A little while ago I felt completely relaxed and comfortable. I was happy and content and fully in the moment. My brain was quiet and still, and that felt absolutely wonderful. But then as they do, that moment ended, and now my body again is tense and my brain is running around on hot coals unable to find a place that doesn't hurt to settle and all I want to do is go back to an hour ago when all was peaceful and I was enjoying a taste of simply existing.

 :hug: hugs Bach I know that feeling all too well. Breathe another calm will come eventually just breathe. Here with you till the calm comes back to you.

Thank you for sharing Bach.  What you say resonates with me too. 

This is so like too many of my days. Things feel alright, or at least on even keel, and it all changes. Sometimes I have no idea what happened, as often there's no discernible trigger that i can identify -- just the sense of doom, which in turn sets off doubts and ... no need to explain, you've described this very well.

It takes huge amounts of patience to at least accept that these tough times are riding along -- close and for too long. It's maddening, sure; but mostly just sad.

I'm hoping this will at least ease some of your current pain --  :hug:

It's rough, having to re-experience this. I hope it passes soon :bighug:

It hurts to be understood in this. But it would hurt more not to. Thank you for responding, friends  :grouphug: :grouphug:

I wish I could tell my Other that I love him, but "I love you" seems to be a  triggering phrase for him. Last night I had a dream in which I hugged his head and said "I love you so much!" to him and he was happy to hear it. Maybe even said it back? I don't know. I don't usually remember my dreams, although it has become apparent to me that unremembered bad dreams trouble my sleep almost every night. The ones I do remember are strange and patchy and garbled, suffused with unidentifiable threat and disquietude. So I don't remember the context of "I love you so much", but it was an atypical moment of joy in a night of typically unsettling dreams. That moment of joy was so vivid that this morning I caught myself thinking it had really happened and being happy, then feeling sad when I remembered that it was a dream.

Last year, my discovering CPTSD helped me understand so much not only about me about him. Before that, I knew that he and I had both grown up in awful circumstances with similarly neglectful/abusive mothers and that we had an empathy and understanding because of that, but I didn't know why sometimes we would wander into a thicket where we could just not say or do anything right with each other. Every few years we would go through unbelievably painful prolonged estrangements. He is averse to therapy and has dealt with his pain and stress all his life through perfectionism and overwork. So I am not really able to share much of my self-healing path with him, but my having more understanding of his responses to me has helped me so much with my responses to him. Still, though, it doesn't make the strictures on my emotional expression any less frustrating. If anything, it makes them more frustrating, because my increased understanding has deepened our relationship. 

I wish that I could tell him how I feel and have him tell me. It's hard for me to accept that that isn't safe for him. If I express my feelings for him verbally he generally doesn't respond. Once he said "I don't know what to say to that." That kind of hurt my feelings but mostly it was just frustrating. So I stopped trying to say it a long time ago. I haven't said it out loud in longer than I can remember, but a few times I wrote it on a piece of paper and left it in his jacket or texted it to him in a foreign language. What does he think about that? Where does it go? Does he reject it out of hand or does he value it? Does he file it away in his busy brain, his vast dark storehouse of [Other]? I will probably never know..

Why does it matter? I know he loves me. I know by how he always comes back no matter how often our traumas clash. And I know by the touching. Lots and lots and lots of touching. I used to think all that was purely about sex but now I know that it's the only way he can express his emotions. I love the closeness and the physical communication. Unspoken though it is, our bond is intimate and deep and genuine. But still, I wish I could tell him.

That sounds hard, Bach. I get how understanding more has deepened the connection you have, but not being able to say the words sounds frustrating. I guess not saying them in this situation is in itself an act of love.

Hugs to you, my friend. :grouphug:

Sounds like a lot of the struggles my wife and I have.

I can relate to only being able to express emotions by touch at times.  Language can be such a botched entanglement sometimes.

Snowdrop, that not saying it is an act of love is a great way to look at it. I feel very tender and protective towards him, more than ever now that I feel I understand him better and can really see how lost he is inside. I can't heal him but I can accept him and love him and be here, and I guess that's enough

River Rabbit, thank you for your response. Maybe that's also how he feels. Also, thinking about your odd and yet apt phrase "botched entanglement" it occurred to me that he might not be the only one triggered by matters of using words to express feelings between us. I think that is probably a "thing" for me with people I care about deeply; wanting to tell them I love them but fearing that it will be unwelcome or not believed or not understood.

That sounds so hard, Bach. I hope that maybe with time and some of his own processing you might be able work on this together as a couple. It would be wonderful for him as well to be able to hear those words spoken with genuine love and tenderness. It would be such a beautiful gift. But I understand that right now that's unsafe and not possible.

I can feel the tenderness and love you have for him through your post, Bach. I'm sure he can feel it too when you're with him. :grouphug:

The most valuable gift we can give our partners is grace and patience.

It seems a lot of us recognize the kinship of trauma in others that we are drawn to... these are the ones who we feel we can trust more.

I too have a partner (wife) that comes from some deep trauma.  We are in a rough spot, but it seems to be getting better.

For a long time now, I have been trying to remember good things from my childhood.  Anything good at all.  Because I know with my head that it can't have all been pure continuous suffering, and that there must have been some fun things, some joy, some pleasure, but really, I can remember hardly any of that.  I can remember times that I liked something or was excited about something, and I can remember things that I know brought me pleasure, but I have no memories of any of that excitement or pleasure.  I actually can't really remember very much of my childhood at all.  A lot of what I remember is in bits and snatches.  Composites, perhaps.  For some reason, I have for many years have believed that there were somehow answers to be found if I could only remember more of my childhood.  Perhaps because of the flashback I didn't know I had had in 2006 that led to the dream that led to my remembering the time when I was somewhere around 10 years old that [Trigger follows, text in white] my mother strangled me until I started to pass out.   But anyway, since then I have looked for memories everywhere I could think of, trying to piece everything together. 

This morning, I told my therapist that I think I need to stop trying to remember things from my childhood.  That I already have enough information about what happened to me back then, and that I don't know whether I'm trying to prove to myself that it really was that bad, or that somehow it really wasn't that bad, but either one is pointless in any case.  I said that I have to stop trying to make sense of it, and just grieve it.  Grieve for the child I was, for everything that poor child could have been but wasn't because no one gave her anything she needed.  But I don't know how to do that, because I don't know how to stop trying to figure out what to DO about it.  She asked me what feeling it without trying to figure out what to DO about it feels like, and I told her that it feels like death.  I think that's because of [trigger in white] my mother suffocating me when I was an infant. An infant doesn't know from choices.  An infant knows only how to struggle. So that's what I learned, that my choices are to struggle or to die.

Something really hard about this is that some of what I think this grieving process might be about goes against ideals that I've had all my life about taking responsibility and not blaming others.  I do take responsibility.  I have never coddled my neuroses.  I have always looked for solutions to my problems and sought ways to become happier and healthier.  I have always tried to avoid being hung up on the past, and feeling sorry for myself about the terrible things that happened to me.  I've always been vehemently averse to blaming my parents for my difficulties or using that I had bad parenting as an excuse to complain or be a jerk.  I hate being pitied and the last thing I want to do is feel sorry for myself.  Self-pity is universally accepted as a very bad quality.  But the thing is, when I think about the things that happened to me, how can I not feel sorry for myself?  I mean, if I read about my childhood as a story about someone else, I'd feel terribly sorry for that poor girl.  I would be thinking "Wow, did she survive that?  How?  What happened to her?  How is she doing now?  That poor baby.  That poor child!  She never had a chance!"  A lot of people complain about their parents, blame their parents, it's a loathsome old cliche.  I never wanted to blame my parents.  But the fact is, in my case, I have done everything I could possibly do for pretty much my entire adult life to overcome the things that my parents are legitimately to blame for.  Ugh.  It is not supposed to be like this.

I don't know too much about grieving for my childhood. I would assume it is a process. It seems that part of the process is looking at the messages that you have internalized (please note: NO blame in that statement) or had forced upon you that have kept you from grieving.

Quote from: Bach on June 16, 2020, 12:34:28 AM
Something really hard about this is that some of what I think this grieving process might be about goes against ideals that I've had all my life about taking responsibility and not blaming others.

It also seems to me that this thought process:

Quote from: Bach on June 16, 2020, 12:34:28 AM
But the thing is, when I think about the things that happened to me, how can I not feel sorry for myself?  I mean, if I read about my childhood as a story about someone else, I'd feel terribly sorry for that poor girl.  I would be thinking "Wow, did she survive that?  How?  What happened to her?  How is she doing now?  That poor baby.  That poor child!  She never had a chance!"

is a good way to look at yourself and deepen your compassion for little Bach.

Step by step.  :grouphug:

Thank you for your reply, notalone :hug:  :grouphug:

I've got nothing else right now because life is pain and I want to die.

Bach, please know that I care about you and value you. I'm glad that you're here.  :hug:

Dear Bach,
I'm also glad you're here, and I value you.  I hope there is something that can help with your pain, that is safe and healing for you - or whatever you need. 
Sending you a hug, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

Bach, I wish I could ease that pain. You are precious and deserve a great deal of love and kindness. I care about you.  :hug:

I visited with my Other over the weekend.  After not seeing each other for three months we've had an unusual number of opportunities to visit in the past few weeks, and we've been getting on wonderfully well.  This past visit was especially lovely.  We didn't do much but cuddle and watch TV and talk.  I felt so safe and loved, and was even able to take mindful note of it and appreciate it without getting triggered by it.  I'm so besotted with him when we get on like that.  Something I'm proud of is that I haven't been all clingy since we parted.  I like to text and talk on the phone, but he's not big on virtual communication. so usually after we've had a really good visit, I'll text him hoping for an answer that will keep the close feeling going, and all it does is the opposite if he doesn't respond.  I haven't done that this time.  A few months ago, I gave myself permission to text him a morning greeting every day if I want to, and to not feel hurt or rejected if he doesn't reply, but otherwise I have to carefully govern my texting desires so that I don't hurt myself by inviting him to ignore me. 

Thank Goodness I have him, and My Person, because I think I've been rejected once again by someone to whom I gave exactly what I was asked for.  It's a penpal I've had for about a year, who I really thought was cool and wanted to be my friend.  If I have ruined that friendship as I think I have by trusting too much and misjudging where a boundary needed to be set, well...it hurts.  It's not a world-shaking earth-shattering loss, but wow, it hurts.  It is SO exhausting to always have to be so careful.  On top of that, I got a message from one of the people from the chat group that kicked me out last year contrary to what had been the stated policy of the group.  She asked how I am and said that she wants me to know that she thinks about me all the time.  She sent me a similar message at the beginning of April, which I answered in a friendly and welcoming manner, but she never replied.  So now I have to figure out what to do.  I have realised that for me, "How are you?" is an invitation to respond, a request for a dialogue, and that for her it is probably a polite formality, and that she's not writing to me because she wants to be my friend, but thinks about me because she knows I was treated very badly by the group and she feels guilty about it, especially because she's the one who reassured me that I was an important part of the group and that everyone cared about me only a day or two before another member of the group kicked me out and no one said anything to defend me.  I know that I didn't do anything "wrong" and that the only reason I was kicked out was because the queen bee of the group didn't like me, and I'm sure that everyone in the group knows that, too.  Blah blah blah.  The worst part of all of that was that even though I know I didn't do anything wrong and that those hypocritical $^%&*^&^ treated me in a way that was explicitly stated to be counter to the ideals of the group, I apologised and slunk away with my tail between my legs.  I APOLOGISED.  It was a support group, FFS!  All that led to my discovering that I have CPTSD and coming to this forum so blah blah blah it turned out to my advantage no use feeling so hurt I always knew that although those women were my friends they weren't REALLY my friends blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I hate myself.  After all these years and all this work, I am still UNACCEPTABLE to the wider world of people.

The hole in here I am trying to fill is enormous.  It's not even a hole, it's a labyrinthine series of caves.  There's nothing in here but dim light and danger, things might explode at any time, something might grab me from behind, I might run into a wall and knock myself silly and thrash around for days stumbling into booby traps.  Struggle or die, that's all I've got.  Why did I have to be born?

Hi Bach, I've been following your journal but now Ive wanted to come by and say that those people in that group and your pen pal should not have done these things. I'm sorry you had to go through that, but their actions were and are unexplainable.
I want to send you a gentle hug, if it's ok, and I'm very sorry that you're feeling what you said in your last sentence. I hear you. We all do. :hug: and a blanket (if it's ok too)

Quote from: Bach on June 23, 2020, 02:44:35 PM
. . . it turned out to my advantage no use feeling so hurt . . .

I don't think there is an "on/off" switch for hurt. Those women treated you poorly and it hurt.  :hug:

I'm really scared and worried about Bach.  She's been feeling really bad for a while and she keeps thinking that she wants to die.  She thinks that comes from me, but I'm okay!  I want to help but I don't know what to do!

I've been concerned about Bach too. I care about her. I know she's been hurting for a while. I'm glad you're okay though. I wonder if it might help Bach to know that you're okay, and that you care so much about her?

We're here for Bach. It just brings me to tears everything that you've been through. We care for you and Bach and everyone in your system. I really hope Bach knows this.
Sending all of you a basket full of comfort and love. I wish I could do more or say something perfect to help.  :grouphug:

 :hug:

I've been thinking about what you said yesterday, and what might help Bach.

You said:

QuoteShe's been feeling really bad for a while and she keeps thinking that she wants to die.  She thinks that comes from me, but I'm okay!

If it's not coming from you, it makes me wonder whether it's another part of Bach having these thoughts and feelings. They might be feeling scared, and need help and reassurance. Perhaps it's a part who doesn't know that you're okay, and they're concerned.

I care about this part, and I care about you and Bach too. I'm glad you're okay.

I care about you and Bach too. Bach, we are here for you. You are not alone.

I was very self-destructive yesterday. I binged worse than I have in a long time. I know that I am feeling much worse today for it and that I can still get it under control in time to not be as sick tomorrow. I had what my therapist said she thought was a significant something or other last week and also had some interesting input from the kids that I don't know what to do about and I feel like I'm drowning no matter how many "my relaxed diaphragm" exercises I do. To all my friends who read here, you are appreciated but I can't address you individually right now because I feel like I'm drowning.

It sounds like there's a lot going on. I'm holding out a hand or even a long tree branch for you to grab hold of.

I know the feeling of drowning. Sending a ring buoy to you. You are not alone. I care about you and all your parts.

I hope you're not feeling as sick today, Bach. I care about you. I want to send you a lifeboat to save you from drowning. :grouphug:

 :hug: sending you a big hug of understating Bach. Take care of yourself I hope you catch a breath of air and can find a way to float for a while to catch your breath.  I'm here for you. :hug:

Thank you, friends  :hug: :grouphug:

I keep letting these kids down. They have told me what they want, what they need, and it's completely reasonable, but with my poor discipline and lack of good habits I can't seem to give it to them. Today my therapist suggested that my continuing to do things that cause me suffering might be me subconsciously acting out my endless anger at my mother. That in some part of me I can't allow myself to be happy or feel good or feel loved because then I would be letting my mother off the hook. I want to find a healthier way of expressing anger at my mother than keeping myself down, making myself sick. Problem is, I keep thinking that I want to talk to her, to tell her how angry I am and that I don't love her or forgive her, and that she can forget about me pretending to find some affection for her at the end of her life like she did with her mother.  I'm pretty sure that's a really bad idea, but I can't figure out how I could possibly meaningfully get that poison out of my soul without doing that.

hey, bach,

i have faith that you will find the way that is going to work best for you.  just want you to know i'm with everyone else, hanging onto you, not letting go.  we got you!  love and hugs, my dear :hug:

That sounds really tough, Bach. It's so hard to be stuck in our healing because of stuck points like this. I don't have any answers but I hope maybe your T can help you figure this out.

I so appreciate everyone who is listening out there.  These past several days have been really rough.  Today I had a little revelation about just what it is that I need to let go of, and it is FEAR.  The fear of my mother.  I need to let go of being afraid of my mother, but I have no idea how to do that, especially not without speaking to her.  I can't speak to her because I'm afraid to.  So is it even possible to let go of being afraid of her without confronting that fear by speaking to her?

I talked it out with My Person at the swimming pool this afternoon, and we came up with a place for me to start on speaking to her again that would be plausible and fairly neutral.  Now I have to decide when/whether I really want to do that.  I think I know what I want from it, and I think I know what I could expect from it, so that's good.  It's really hard for me to think about dealing with it, but I'm not sure there's any other way through this.  As long as my mother is still alive, I don't know how else I will be able to let go of fearing her, and I don't want to wait for her to die to be able to do that.  Aside from the fact that she comes from hardy stock and could still live for years, it would be really nice to not have to wish her dead.  Wishing her dead might be understandable and forgiveable and all that, but it still feels like strong negative karma, and I'd love to be free of it.

The most important thing for me to do now is sit with this idea for a while, ponder it, chant about it.  Figure out what I need to do to make it safe.  I'm learning so much more about how to make things safe for me, so working that out is most likely a doable thing.  What's crucial now is that I not rush myself into it.  That's always my impulse when there's something I know I have to deal with that I don't want to deal with; to charge in and get it over with.  But if I've learned anything in this long and painful life, it's that charging in never works out.  So, yeah, sit with it.  Maybe confront the smell of her perfume first. 

Quote from: Bach on July 08, 2020, 01:12:53 AM
The most important thing for me to do now is sit with this idea for a while, ponder it, chant about it.  Figure out what I need to do to make it safe.  I'm learning so much more about how to make things safe for me, so working that out is most likely a doable thing.  What's crucial now is that I not rush myself into it.  That's always my impulse when there's something I know I have to deal with that I don't want to deal with; to charge in and get it over with.  But if I've learned anything in this long and painful life, it's that charging in never works out.  So, yeah, sit with it.  Maybe confront the smell of her perfume first.

That sounds like a good idea, taking your time and figuring out how to do things in a way that is safe for you.

 :yeahthat:

i agree - i think you're figuring it out really well for yourself, bach.  love and hugs! :hug:

QuoteThe most important thing for me to do now is sit with this idea for a while, ponder it, chant about it.  Figure out what I need to do to make it safe.  I'm learning so much more about how to make things safe for me, so working that out is most likely a doable thing.  What's crucial now is that I not rush myself into it.  That's always my impulse when there's something I know I have to deal with that I don't want to deal with; to charge in and get it over with.  But if I've learned anything in this long and painful life, it's that charging in never works out.  So, yeah, sit with it.

This sounds like an excellent idea, Bach. Needing to let go of the fear makes a lot of sense. :grouphug:

I'm continuing to do really hard work in therapy examining this question of what things I might need to let go of to make further progress towards good health; pleasing a mother who wants me to be sick and unhappy, trying to signal for help from an increasingly detached and otherwise occupied father, acting out my anger at my parents by suffering, fearing and placating the resentful rejecting mother who never wanted me, who saw me as competition that had to be destroyed, wanted me dead, blamed me for everything she hated about herself and her life.  It's wearing me out.  I'm so tired.

Thank you for all the support, my friends  :hug: :grouphug:  There's important stuff happening and I can't rush through it.  It's so helpful to be able to air it here.  I appreciate beyond what I can express your understanding and caring.

Quote from: Bach on July 10, 2020, 11:27:15 PM
There's important stuff happening and I can't rush through it. 

Absolutely. And bravo for all those huge insights that you have about yourself and relationships to your M and F. It takes a lot of courage to be able to know those things.

 :hug: hugs Bach ttake care of you! :hug:

Important stuff indeed. I'm glad you're not rushing it. Well done, Bach. Big insights, and you're doing brilliantly. :grouphug:

I'm so sick of doing therapy on the phone.  I'm so sick of the call not being clear and my therapist constantly having to interrupt to ask me what I said.  I'm sick of bouncing around in my filthy messy room not-airconditioned room, not wanting My Person to overhear me.  I know he's not listening to what I'm saying but sometimes he'll say something like "I heard you yelling in there" and I hate it, hate it, hate it.  I'm sick of trying to talk about my crap when I'm sitting on my bed looking at the visual representation of my mental chaos depicted by all the clutter and disarray in there.  I miss leaving the house and going to my therapist's office, stopping at the quick mart for a treat coffee on the way.  I miss missing My Person.  I generally like having him around, but since the fake quarantine he NEVER EVER LEAVES.  He used to go out to places like the gym and softball practice, but now he's just always here, all the time, and he's so BIG.  Big and loud, and he doesn't know how to be physically gentle.  He likes to squeeze me and pat me and roughhouse like I'm a big dog, and although I like hugs, many of his ways of demonstrating physical affection make me anxious.  I've been trying for a long time to teach him how he can be affectionate without hurting or upsetting me, but he has trouble understanding because he's strong and healthy and untraumatised and he doesn't know what it's like when your whole life is walking a tightrope balanced over a high chasm of anxiety and pain.

I want Other  :'(  And I want to not have to do this %$^&*&(^* therapy session.
-----------------------------------------
Edited to add:  I did my ^&*&(*&^(* therapy session and I hated it.  I realised that a big problem I have right now is that I am a tired angry adult who is trying to do things to take care of the kids but feels worn out by the effort.  Basically, right now I am both the resentful mother who doesn't want to deal with the needy child, and I'm the needy child too.  I have to find a way to avoid treating Middle B and the gang like my mother treated me when I was a child.

 :hug: it's good to hear from you Bach.  I know how you feel with everyone being here all the time. This covid crap is really hard.  Sending a hug of understanding :hug: I also feel your pain with trying to both be the mother and the child :stars: middle B has be friended Little which I appreciate but it is hard for me as well to find that balance between life and healing it is hard you doing great! Keep putting one foot in front of the other we are here to help.  My T keeps telling me and Little that I'm loved by my kids and H and I'm a good mommy so I've changed the cycle. Which is amazing and if nothing else I should be proud of that on days I can't see any other light.  Bach on days you can't see any other light remember you have us and the work you do with middle B and the others have helped me and I'm sure others to face their own parts and past with a little more care.  Just remember your not alone I'm standing there with you whenever you need me. :hug:

Thank you so much, Tee  :hug:  You are very kind and I appreciate it very much.  I'm glad to hear that I have been helpful to you.  I often worry that I don't participate here enough but I also feel that it's very important that I not try to force myself especially when I'm in a lot of distress.  So that is encouraging!

Other wants to go away for the weekend in August and although I want to do that very much, the whole idea is very anxiety-provoking because of times in the past when we have tried to plan something like this and things have gone wrong and led to estrangement.  I am really hoping we are past that especially with the greater understanding of each other that we have reached in the past year through my learning about CPTSD, but it's scary and I know that I must approach it cautiously.  Also, he wants to go away to the shore, which I associate heavily with my childhood summers.  Yesterday I realised that I do not even know how to plan a trip to the shore, because my entire concept of it is left over from summers with my mother and grandmother that happened 45 years ago, and that's a perspective even narrower than it is out of date.  So I told him we need to talk about it, and he said that we will.  My old way with him was always to go along with what he wanted to do no matter how I felt about it.  I now realise that my fear of asking for our plans to take my needs into account was really fear of my mother left over from the past, and that it should be safe to ask him to accommodate me.  That he might even appreciate the opportunity to negotiate a plan that will serve us both instead of having to deal with the insecurity that I suspect I've often made him feel when I've been unable to ask for what I want.  So all that is good but also really terrifying.  All I want to do lately is hide in my house and do drugs.  It takes all my strength just to keep walking around.

 :hug: good job speaking up even if you are scared it's hard to set boundaries at first but it does get easier. Asking for what you need or want is part of that.  So good job baby steps.  And you are getting up and moving around so yeah there too.  Finding things to love for through recovery is sometimes the hardest thing.
Facing the long Past demons that we have split to hide and repress to survive and maintain some semblance of normalcy, come crashing and flooding back to the forefront of minds. 
We need the tribe to help us along and support all of our parts and at times hold us together by the virtual hugs and Kind words of people the have walked a similar path either in front, behind, or beside.  Helping each other through this scary life off cptsd.

Bach, I understand the distress about not going to T's office for therapy. I do online therapy so I do have the visual. I also deal with other people in the house. (I turn on the bathroom fan for white noise.) There are times the internet freezes or once didn't work for the last ten minutes, then time up. Was dealing with tough stuff so very disturbing. I could say more about this, but want you to know that I understand and share your frustration.

I'm glad you are letting Other know what you need regarding getting away. Good job.

notalone, the not-in-person therapy thing is brutal.  I'm telling myself that it's okay to resent the therapy as long as I still do it.  I chose the phone instead of the computer because I hate, hate, hate being on camera.  Hate it, hate it, hate it.  I can only tolerate video calls with my very closest loved ones, and even then I feel a bit awkward.

This morning I was feeling very agitated, so I took a walk, and along the way I became aware that Little B was distressed, so I imagined that I was taking a walk with a small child and did my best to tune in to what a small child might need or be feeling.  It was surprisingly difficult, and surprising how different it was from what was on my adult mind.  Once I did that, I was able to feel some of the small child's pleasure at being out for a walk on a sunny morning with a trusted adult.  That led to my thinking that if I want to let go of my fear of my mother I need to allow myself to feel empathy for the traumatised parts of her.  Not to negate my anger at everything she did to me, but to separate those feelings, felt towards the person who hurt me, from my ability to see in the grander scheme of things that the suffering she was trying to escape from must have been immense.  I told my therapist that I'd like to be able to interact with my mother the same way I'm able to interact with a friend of mine who I was close to 15 years ago when she was a young woman, but who became schizophrenic in her late 20s and is not really the same person anymore.  Sometimes she's a bit more like that person, and sometimes a bit less, sometimes she's completely nuts and sometimes she's almost reasonable, but at no time is she ever anyone I can expect anything from.  We stay in touch via Messenger, and when I interact with her, I respond to what's reasonable and pretty much ignore what isn't.  She's a suffering human being who I feel compassion for, who is not a threat to me.  I might feel differently if there was a possibility that she would turn up on my doorstep wanting something from me, but I'm 99.5% certain that she won't, and so while that relationship is never very rewarding, for reasons beyond my control it is part of my life, and although it does at times cause me to feel uncomfortable things, it's fundamentally emotionally safe for me.  That's the kind of relationship I'd like to have with my mother.

I'm glad you were able to tune in to Little B and what she was feeling.

Working toward interacting with your mother like you do with your friend, sounds like a good idea. I'm glad you said, "Not to negate my anger at everything she did to me. . .," because I think it's really important to listen to the hurt she caused.

Quote from: Bach on July 25, 2020, 02:28:39 PM
but at no time is she ever anyone I can expect anything from. 

:yeahthat: Also important. I'd hate for you to be hurt even more.

Still with you regarding distance therapy. It has felt intolerable to me. When it feels like it will go on forever, I feel myself falling into an abyss. I want you to know that you are not alone in the distress of teletherapy.

 :hug: Bach therapy at a distance is rough!    I agree!!!  It's hard to tune in to the young parts of ourselves.  I'm struggling with that as well.  I'm glad you were able to take some time on your walk today. 

Hugs as you work towards healing and finding a new relationship with you M.

I love you, friends.  :hug: :grouphug:

I started reading a book about IFS.  I don't understand very much of it.  I've had this problem with exploring IFS before.  But there's an idea I'm trying to grasp that I think might be helpful, and that's the notion of figuring out what part I have that is dead set on compulsive drug use as a substitute problem.  I'm realising that "parts" might be different from what I've been thinking of as my inner selves?  I've been thinking of my inner selves as being me from various different phases of my life, and this doesn't seem to be the same thing as that at all.  It's very confusing. 

I'm a beginner myself, but I first started really getting the concept using that inner critic voice we all have as an example. I used to think this "voice" was a negative thing trying to hurt me, but using IFS I've started to understand that it's a part of me that's trying to help me - by being critical, it's attempting to help me by keeping me from making bad decisions or putting myself in situations where I'll get hurt. This video is part 1 of 4, a question and answer event talking about it further... https://youtu.be/2UfmGwENz9M

 :hug: parts can be confusing for sure and distressing at times until we get to where we can look at the pain in the face and deal with it.  This is a hard journey good luck here with you! :hug:

hey, bach,

lots of credit to you for remaining in this journey, exploring bits and pieces that you're not familiar with, and moving forward.

i understand on one level about being able to separate people from their traumas, have empathy for them, etc.  i'm able to do that with certain people in my life, but not all of them.  altho i had to go nc w/ my oldest d because of her ongoing abuse, i also am still able to love her and recognize how much pain she has been thru in her life - many different diagnoses, including schizophrenia - and can feel some compassion for her.

still, i cannot put my ex in that category.  weird how that works out sometimes.  but, that's me - maybe i'll feel differently about it at some future time. 

best to you with figuring out your next phase of your journey, bach.  i'm not very knowledgeable about IFS, but i know several people here on the forum are.  i think you're very brave to knock on that door.  love and hugs :hug:

Bach, from the best that I understand (and I could be totally wrong  :doh:) how people have "parts" can vary. It doesn't necessarily mean a dissociative disorder. I would say not to try to make yourself fit into what you are reading about IFS; just focus on the information that seems like a fit and a help for you.

Quote from: notalone on July 29, 2020, 11:42:09 PM
I would say not to try to make yourself fit into what you are reading about IFS; just focus on the information that seems like a fit and a help for you.

I agree with this. When I started researching IFS, I took what resonated with me, and put any bits that didn't to one side. I also found some books and approaches resonated with me, and others didn't.

My parts are all sorts of different ages. Some of them are holding traumas, and those traumas may have happened at around the age the part seems to be. The age they appear to be can shift about a bit when I start working with them.

My protector parts can be all sorts of different ages too. When I first start working with them, they can appear to be grown up, or like someone else. When they begin to relax and let go, it's like they take off the mask they're wearing and appear younger.

It's quite possible that the compulsive drug use part is trying to protect you in some way, or protect another part. It might be scared of something, and perhaps not realise that it's in the present.

:grouphug:

Hi Bach,
I am just sending you a hug right now, as I wanted to say more, but I'm going to be interrupted in a minute - so I have to go, but I wanted to send you a hug  :hug:
Hope  :)

I don't feel that the Inners are my children or my sisters. I feel that they are my foster children.

If I, Bach, am the protector, who or where is the Self?

A part of me is actually genuinely afraid of having self-care routines to help me be healthier and feel better.  I am afraid of this because my mother's self-care routines seemed much more like mystical incantations against pain and anxiety than like gentle nurturing to increase health and happiness.  What part is this and how can I reassure it?

QuoteIf I, Bach, am the protector, who or where is the Self?

I find it really hard to think in terms of where the Self is. I find it easier to ask "am I my Self". If I feel qualities of compassion, confidence, curiosity and other things associated with Self, then I know that I'm my Self. If I feel things like fear and anger, things that aren't associated with Self, then I know that I'm blended with a part.

I also find it useful to think in terms of Self energy. How much Self energy I have, and how much I have access to. It's a slightly different way of looking at it, which I sometimes find helpful.

QuoteA part of me is actually genuinely afraid of having self-care routines to help me be healthier and feel better.  I am afraid of this because my mother's self-care routines seemed much more like mystical incantations against pain and anxiety than like gentle nurturing to increase health and happiness.  What part is this and how can I reassure it?

I think it's good that you recognise this part's fear, and where it's coming from. I can understand it feeling afraid. My parts have felt afraid of things too.

Maybe the part needs to know more about how the self-care you describe is different? How increased health and happiness is good. How the situation now is different to the situation in the past.

Might the part be open to a tiny bit of self-care to see how it goes? That might help it know that it's safe.

These are just thoughts, please ignore if they're not helpful. :grouphug:

Snowdrop, those thoughts are VERY helpful. Thank you! This in particular:

Quotefind it really hard to think in terms of where the Self is. I find it easier to ask "am I my Self". If I feel qualities of compassion, confidence, curiosity and other things associated with Self, then I know that I'm my Self. If I feel things like fear and anger, things that aren't associated with Self, then I know that I'm blended with a part

This gave me a real glimmer of how to start exploring my Self and work on differentiating it from my parts.

Your thoughts are always welcome  :hug:

I'm probably risking being misunderstood, but here's how I've come to regard this self/Self territory in my own stuff. It could get complex in a hurry, so I'll try and simplify it. And remember -- I'm not suggesting it's cast in stone or even logical (although it is to me). It does resemble, though, some of what 20th century psychologist Carl Jung (and others) wrote about self-Self, but again it's rather lengthy to go into within a short space.

Basically, I view the (Higher) Self as a sort of overall guiding observer type, but not directly involved in one's everyday affairs. I guess that could also be called an energetic presence, like Snowdrop noted. However, the language about it can be mucked up once certain set-in-stone rigid beliefs come into the picture. Maybe that affected your mother's approach?

The lower-case self is the personality ego/mind, which can include several parts and may not be a unified whole. Except in the sense that the Higher Self can provide guidance if needed.

At least that's how I've come to regard the self/Self issue in my own struggles with forging a way forward. I'm only pointing to my own take on this, and in no way suggesting it's applicable to others.

I'm glad it's helped. :grouphug:

When I first started using IFS, I found it useful to pay close attention to those Self C qualities. I'd connect to a part, perhaps feel scared, and then say to myself "I feel scared, so I'm blended with a part that's scared". I'd then try and connect to that scared part, perhaps feel angry, and say to myself "I feel angry, so I'm blended with a part that's angry". I'd keep going until I reached a point of feeling curious and compassionate about a part. That's when I'd know that I'd reached my Self.

 :hug:

Snowdrop, I read a little bit about the C qualities, and now I think I have found a concept of Self vs parts, and of what it means when Self is blended with parts.  It's a little bit scary right now because at the moment, I feel that I am narrowly present in Self while parts are spinning out all around me.  In fact, it's terrifying, but at the same time, I have an awareness that it will pass and I will be okay.  My body is in turmoil but my mind is clear.  I don't understand.  Does Self understand and is there now a part I'm blended with that doesn't?  It's hard to follow my calm, clear mind when my whole body is panicking.

QuoteSnowdrop, I read a little bit about the C qualities, and now I think I have found a concept of Self vs parts, and of what it means when Self is blended with parts.

That's excellent, Bach. :yes:

QuoteIt's a little bit scary right now because at the moment, I feel that I am narrowly present in Self while parts are spinning out all around me.  In fact, it's terrifying, but at the same time, I have an awareness that it will pass and I will be okay.  My body is in turmoil but my mind is clear.  I don't understand.  Does Self understand and is there now a part I'm blended with that doesn't?  It's hard to follow my calm, clear mind when my whole body is panicking.

Based on things I've experienced, I interpret that as you being in your Self, but you're partially blended with a part who's scared and might be overwhelming you. When this happens to me, it can be a bit like I'm driving a bus (as my Self) but there's this part who keeps trying to take over the steering wheel.

In situations like this, I find it helpful to tell the part that it's ok. I know it's scared, but it's safe. I then ask the part to give me some space. I ask it not to overwhelm me, and I tell it that I can still give it attention without it having to overwhelm me.

Hang in there, Bach. Hang on to that feeling of Self. Your Self is right. It will pass, and you'll be ok.

One other thing that might be worth a try is listening to the audiobook Greater Than the Sum of Our Parts by Richard Schwartz. It has lots of guided meditations in it for communicating with parts, and getting them to calm down. The audiobook's a bit expensive, but if you can get a free Audible trial, you should be able to download it for free.

 :hug: Bach it will get better :hug:

I spent a couple of days with Other.  I'm really thankful that visiting with Other no longer feels like the total crapshoot it used to with regard to whether or not we'd be able to relax and enjoy each other's company.  I know I can't assume that we'll never cross each other up again, but it just feels different now.  I feel different.  It feels so much safer to love him now.  Some day it might even feel safe to say the words again, but that has started to feel less important.

Something weird happened, though.  Sex-related possible trigger in white:
We were making love and he was on top of me, and when he started to climax some quirk of how our bodies were pressed together and moving caused my breath to be restricted.  I was fully aware of it in the moment, and although it was an uncomfortable and abstractly scary feeling, it did not frighten me or make me feel threatened at all.  I knew that I could tell him to get off me if I needed to, but I could breathe enough and everything else felt really, really good, so I didn't.  He finished just before the point when I probably would have told him, and it was really intense and quite lovely.  So I was fine with the whole thing in the moment, but then later I had some trouble falling asleep, and when I did fall asleep, I had a bad dream that involved him hurting me and not stopping when I asked him to.  Although the dream was distressing, as soon as I woke up I was able to tell myself "That was a dream.  He's right here and he is sweet Other".  He's a veteran of my bad dreams and I could have asked him for comfort if I needed to, but he had been restless earlier in the night and was finally sleeping soundly, so I didn't want to disturb him if I didn't have to.
In particular, I didn't want to wake him up just to tell him he'd been cruel to me in a dream.  So I put my hand on his hip and that calmed me, and I went back to sleep.  All that is good, but a couple of images from the dream and the strangeness of the lovemaking have stayed in my head.

I'm really confused and I don't know what to do with it.  Our visit was so nice.  The memory of it doesn't deserve to be eclipsed by this and I want to just let it go, but...?  :stars:

Bach, I'm not spending much time on OOTS this month, but I did catch up on reading your journal tonight. I took a sleeping pill, which just hit me. I will just let you know that I care and send you tender thoughts and hugs.  :hug:

Snowdrop, a bunch of the stuff that you've shared with me recently has been very helpful.  The other day, you wrote this:

QuoteWhen this happens to me, it can be a bit like I'm driving a bus (as my Self) but there's this part who keeps trying to take over the steering wheel.

In situations like this, I find it helpful to tell the part that it's ok. I know it's scared, but it's safe. I then ask the part to give me some space. I ask it not to overwhelm me, and I tell it that I can still give it attention without it having to overwhelm me.

This really resonated with me when I first read it a few days ago, and it must have really stuck with me because today when I was talking to my therapist about my visit with Other I realised that I've been doing something very much like this in the past few days and that it has served me well.  Something about the bus analogy really helped me grasp what is meant by Self vs parts.  I got a copy of the book you recommended and will be interested to delve into it once I've taken a breather from this worthwhile but truly taxing work on myself that I've been doing lately.  Thank you so much for your input :hug:

notalone, thank you for coming by :hug:  Thinking of you.  I hope you are enjoying your summer. :grouphug:

I'm so glad it helped, my friend. :hug:

I had a big regression, numbing out with food and drugs and TV all day. Felt low and small and drained and did almost nothing. Didn't leave the house all day but in the evening I did go for a little walk with my Person, so there's that. Suffered a bit of Other withdrawal and feeling rejected because he didn't call today, but I was able to remind myself that he is stressed out trying to get his schoolwork done and will call when he's ready, and managed to hold off the urge to fish for attention from him, which is something that often causes trouble. I suppose that's what I needed to numb today with all that excess. I just didn't have the energy to stand against it. Oh well. I love and accept myself and will start fresh tomorrow.

 :hug: Bach, I hope you slept well, and I'm glad you're loving and accepting yourself. 
Hope  :)

Thank you, Hope :hug:

Today was also hard. I  did maybe a tiny bit better than yesterday, but maybe not. I didn't do any worse, at least. I'm figuring out so much about how things happen in my head and body and how the two follow each other and I know I can't expect to do work this deep without blowback. I know I need to be patient with myself. So although I am tired and frustrated, and anxious about my ability to meaningfully change, I will again state love and acceptance for myself with all my flaws, and intention to try again tomorrow.

When this sort of thing happens to me, it's because a protector part (usually a firefighter) has got scared. It usually happens when an exile part has become activated for some reason, or I've got a bit too close to an exile part without the permission of its protectors. The firefighter does what it can to distract me from what's going on with the exile part. It grabs hold of the bus steering wheel, and sends me numb through things like eating, TV or reading.

It helps me to carefully talk to the firefighter part that's making me go numb, thank it for protecting me and caring about me, and trying to find out what it's scared of. I then try and negotiate with it.

Hope this helps. :grouphug:

Thanks as always for your input, Snowdrop. I need to do some more reading and see if I can get a handle on the protector/firefighter/exile thing because I don't really understand it well at all.

I'm a wreck today. Anxiety and stomach pain that won't quit. I overate but not as egregiously as the last few days and I did a few useful things today though so at least I'm not totally spiralling into the dysfunction pit. I really hope I can get out of this loop soon.

i hope so, too, bach.  please, be patient with yourself, ok?  sometimes we just need time and space.  you deserve that.  love and hugs :hug:

Sending care, Bach.  :bighug:

San and notalone, thank you so much for being there  :hug:  :hug: Everything hurts so much inside lately, no one knows because I look fine on the outside. I guess it's better that it isn't showing but the hidden despair is so lonely. Thank you for caring  :grouphug:

I am angry right now because I realised today that I don't think I have ever once actually changed a bad habit. Or, really, developed a good one that stuck properly. I have at times stopped doing something temporarily but I always end up regressing, or started doing something good and continued for a month or two, but then stopped. I'm thoroughly programmed for two conflicting things: survival and self-destruction. I don't know what to do with that but I wanted to write it down.

hey, bach,

reading what you wrote, i thought of 2 things immediately that you are doing that are positive, constructive, and that both help yourself and others.  and that you are continuing to do.  one is the support and feedback you give to people here on the forum - for me, at least, hearing from you while i've been going thru rough times has been so wonderfully caring.  the second is that you continue to write in your journal, put your thoughts and feelings down here to share w/ others, and allow yourself the vulnerability to do that, to receive support and caring as well as feedback. 

to me, these 2 things are important, worthy, and valuable, and don't deserve to be overlooked.  maybe they're first steps, but i think they're very big ones.  i think you're making progress in the self-care arena by involving yourself here, both for yourself and others.  thank you for all that, and for being you.  i think you're great!  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you for the encouragement, san.  I've been feeling quite discouraged lately, and that positive feedback helps give me the will to stay on track.  In fact, writing this reminds me that today my morning was disrupted by my husband having to go out early today (which hasn't happened at all since March), and I haven't yet done the morning good habits I've been working on building.  I guess I'll go do them now.

Siiiiigh

Sending you lots of support, Bach  :hug: I see the effort and the work that you put into your healing.  :)

Thank you, marta :hug: 

I haven't been able to write in the past several days, because I am just OVERWHELMED.  I feel sad and discouraged and frustrated and sick and in pain and absolutely hopeless.  I feel like there is no point in even trying.  But I'm still trying anyway, because what else can I do? 

I feel like my life has been a waste.  That I am suffocating from the weight of all the wrong I've been all the years that I'm alive.  It doesn't even matter that I was never actually wrong, that I was cast into a role at birth by a mother who didn't want me, and the crazy was forced on me by her fear of competition.  It's not just me that was gaslighted (gaslit?).  My mother had everyone in the family convinced that I was a troublemaker, that I was crazy, that I was a pest and a problem and that there was something WRONG with me.  I remember she used to say that to me, "What is WRONG with you?", when what was wrong with me was HER.  Her resentment of me.  Her vendetta against the baby who had the temerity not only to be born, but to be born female.  The permanent state of fear and need that was thrust upon me by her abuse and neglect.  If you treated from birth as if you are a troublemaker, as if you are crazy, as if you are a problem, told endlessly that there is something WRONG with you, guess what, you end up acting crazy and causing problems and behaving like there is something WRONG with you! 

I keep thinking about all the relationships that were ruined and all the opportunities that were lost.  All the pain and confusion and rejection and failure and loss that never had to be.  All those years of it, an entire lifetime.  All the skills and talents I never developed, the career I never had, the children I never had.  The self I never had, and still don't have.  The empty shell that I am, unable to do anything unless someone else wants me to.  The lifetime I've spent keeping myself distracted and trying to stay safe, unable to motivate myself, unable to act, waiting around until someone wants me for something and I can come alive and feel valuable until they're done with me. 

Oh, the pain!  The pain and the grief and the empty howling void at the center of me.  Who could I have been, if I had been even so much as properly fed during the early years of my life?

Bach, your post really resonates with me as I've felt this way too.  And do feel this way to varying degrees most days.  I am reflecting on gaslighting in my life and also wondered how to make it past tense.  I appreciate you articulating your experience because I haven't been able to put these feelings into words yet. 

dear bach, please remember, this, too, shall pass.  other forum members have written this to me and it's helped, so i'm passing it along to you.  hang tough, sweetie - we're hangin' right beside you.  love and hugs :hug:

I have begun to develop an understanding of what is Self and what is parts. I can't write about it too much because the parts are too scared. I am also starting to understand what parts are vs what Inners or Youngers are. Inners are representations of stages of my life roughly delineated by chronology and specific traumatic events, and parts separate from continuous consistent Self come from each of those Inners. This seems key.

This sounds really significant, Bach :yes:.

wow!  amazing insight! :hug:

Bach, those sound like significant insights. Sending you lots of care.  :grouphug:

 :yeahthat:  :cheer:  :hug:

 :applause: Hi Bach -- those are good signs, and it's cool to see the perspective coming in a bit clearer for you. May these new directions continue for you, past the scary places into the new sunshine.  :sunny:

Hi Bach,
Also sending you lots of care, and I also acknowledge lots of insights there  :cheer: :hug:
Hope  :)

Bach, what you wrote resonated with me so deeply, and I wish I could sometimes just shout that from the rooftops with you (if you ever want to). It is horrible what you never had. I'm sending you love and warmth your way, and I'm very glad that you've found your way with your parts. No pressure at all, but acknowledging it at all is a win for me :cheer:
:hug: we're here for you Bach. You're not alone in this. :)

I've been struggling for a while.  I feel stuck and unable to progress because I am impatient to heal and every time I feel that something has given me a little bit of progress I start trying too hard and investing too much hope, and then the parts of me that are convinced that we have to be sick to be safe get overwhelmed by the possibility that maybe we don't. 

I'm super fed-up with doing psychoanalysis on the phone.  I'm wondering about the possibility of finding an IFS therapist.  Lots of scary things in that idea.

Hi Bach. Sounds like you are pretty frustrated. I'm still doing therapy via internet, and am so anxious to get back to seeing my therapist face to face. My therapist is trained and experienced in IFS and I do find it helpful.

i get that impatience to be moving forward or just be done with all this!  ugh!  every setback gets so frustrating and it wears me out.

i do hope you find what you're looking for in a t - i'm sure it would be helpful.  best with all of it.  love and hugs, my dear :hug:

 :hug: Bach I hear what your saying. I uncover a new bit or start to process something. Then my brain spins it around and around in my head with flashbacks and all trying to put pieces together.  My parts don't like and neither do I really.  Part of me want to just say yep I had a really messed up life to this point can I please just move on.  But that's not how my brain works.

I feel your pain Bach.  Sending you a big hug of understanding. :hug: I hope you can find a T that can see you in person and help you better.

Hi Bach,
I just popped by to send you a hug,  :hug:
Hope  :)

notalone, san, tee, and Hope, thank you for your good thoughts and hugs and encouragement.  I'm still really struggling, but I'm keeping my nose just above the water line.  At the moment, I'm so-far-today-successfully wrestling down my urges to binge on drugs and sweets, and not-yet-successfully trying to wrangle up the fortitude to call some therapists.

I'm sending you a lifebelt to help keep you afloat. Well done for resisting those urges. Thinking of you. :grouphug:

 :yeahthat: :hug:

Snowdrop and san, your replies are as always deeply appreciated :hug:

I did manage to not binge or smoke on Wednesday when I wrote the above, but I haven't done so well with that since then, and I still haven't called any therapists.  Maybe tomorrow.  It's always maybe tomorrow, isn't it?

I hate everything right now.  I was supposed to visit with Other today but he hurt his back and could not come.  Then I got blocked on messenger by my poor schizophrenic friend in California.  She thinks I have turned against her.  That's a huge can of emotional worms there, that is.  Can't even write about it, it's so confusing and painful.  So trying to make the best of the day, I went on a walk with my Person.  As it's a nice day and I've been working on my physical activity level, I planned a relatively long walk, and that shouldn't have been a problem, but along the way we got into a conversation with some people who have a big vegetable garden in their front yard.  That started out being good, the people were really nice and it was an interesting conversation about something for which I have great enthusiasm.  So then what?  Well, socialising takes energy, and I only have a limited amount of that.  When I realised that I was getting into trouble with it, I started trying to wrap up the conversation so that we could be on our way, but my Person was really into it and by the time I was able to get us out of there with an acceptable level of grace and politeness, I was pretty much spent and still had to walk all the way home.  That happens quickly.  It makes me feel so pathetic and weak and useless.  Now I'm just exhausted and miserable.  I want to cry, but I can't.  Literally, physically can't.  I have to just sit here and stew in my stress chemicals.

Quote from: Bach on October 18, 2020, 09:01:25 PM
Well, socialising takes energy, and I only have a limited amount of that. 

I relate to this. When things are more difficult, surface socialization is exhausting to me.

i'm right there with you, bach, on the amount of energy it takes to socialize, even when it's something/someone you like or are interested in. I don't see it as weak/pathetic/useless tho (at least not on my stronger days - sometimes i'm so spent i can nosedive, too). we have been through the wringer in more ways and for a longer time than anyone should ever have had to be, and we've used up so much energy just to survive, there really isn't a lot left over for some of the niceties of life sometimes.

i hope you can find compassion for yourself as you do for others when they've undergone something similar.  i think you did a great job hanging in there for the sake of another, even when you could feel yourself fading. i also hope you've found some time to rest and re-charge.  sending love and a hug filled with care. :hug:

 :hug:

I feel like giving up. Not sure how to find the strength to go on. I'm worn out from this lifetime of threat and fear and I don't want to do it anymore. Will it ever get better or will it just get worse and worse and worse until I die?

Dear Bach,

Im sorry if I'm invading your Diary from nowhere.. sorry you are feeling that way, I Do relate to those, if I may say : Apocalyptic mind states. I'm listening and sending support

Rani

bach, sweetie, we've got you.  we're here for you - you are not alone with this.

having been where you're speaking from on several occasions, i can truthfully say it can get better.  maybe not today or tomorrow, but keep up the good work you've been doing, allow the feelings of support we're offering, and know that this, too, shall pass.  i've had that written to me more than once, and it helped.  i hope it does the same for you, so i'm sending it along surrounded by heartfelt caring and tenderness.

also sending love and a hug  filled with Earth Mother Spirit to bring you in, embrace you, enfold you in her voluminous skirts till you stop shivering. She's always here for us.  :bighug:

Hi Bach, I also wanted to say that things will hopefully get better, and we are here for you.  Alongside you.  Sending you a gentle hug of support and care  :hug: 
Hope  :)

Bach, I'm sorry it feels so awful now. I care about you.  :hug:

 :hug: Bach I'm there with you the hole can be very deep. I'm sorry you are feeling so low right now too.  I will share my hole with you.  We can be in the dark together. It is hard to feel like things will never get better, I have been feeling that way for a while now, which is why I've been gone for the most part.  My kids have kept me going.  I'm not out of the dark but I've been faking life and it is muting the horrors playing in my head at least a little.  Hang in there Bach! I'm thinking about you and care for you. Here if you need me! Big hug! :hug:

A few years back, I reached my 'ending' point with all the pain recycling from years past. Perhaps around 10 days ago, I felt crushed yet again by an extremely powerful flashback that I didn't think I could ever recover from.

Well, I haven't ... except I've also rediscovered some other things about life. I feel like at least I'm on a new channel that can get me further along.

It's not about me, though -- I've known others who've been able to see new light as well. I know it sounds crazy cliche-like, but the one stereotype saying that's never pooped out on me yet is the one that goes something like "it's always the darkest just before the dawn."

I'm hoping that you too will come to live into that as a way to find self-kindness as you continue finding life's promise.

  :hug:

Oh, my.  I so appreciate all of these compassionate responses.  It's always scary to express those feelings, and to be met with such kindness?  I'm not even sure how to react.  I have been realising lately that I really don't know how to appropriately express my emotions regardless of what they are.  I do want to respond, though, because it means so much to me that people here are reading and not judging, and caring enough to want to say something.  Thank you.  Seriously, thank you.

I really wanted to reply to each of you individually, Rani, san, Hope, notalone, Tee and woodsgnome, because I do appreciate every single one of you, but I've been unequal to the task today, so I'm going to post this now before it gets away from me.  I'll keep hanging in here the best I can with you, dear friends, doing what I can and hoping that there are better things ahead for all of us.  :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

You don't have to respond to each one of us. I hear that it was meaningful to you that we responded to your post. You expressed yourself well.

Quote from: Bach on November 02, 2020, 09:12:09 PM
I'll keep hanging in here the best I can with you, dear friends, doing what I can and hoping that there are better things ahead for all of us. 

:grouphug:      :hug:

 :grouphug: one for in front of the other.  One moment at a time.  Big hug  :hug:

notalone and Tee  :heythere:

I am in distress over Thanksgiving yet again.  I didn't think I would have to deal with Thanksgiving distress again this year.  I thought that either we'd be having Thanksgiving at my brother's with the mother and stepfather, and I would deal with the event calmly and well as I did last year, and then enjoy the kid jamboree that My Person and my niphlings and I have been putting on after dinner for the past few years, or that there would be no Thanksgiving at all due to covid.  But of course it can't be that simple.  The decaying old stepfather cannot travel anymore, so instead of Thanksgiving being at my brother's house, it's going to be at the still poisonously vital mother's house.  The idea of going to the mother's house freaks me out on many different levels for many different reasons. So I have to be an * and not go. 

("the" instead of "my" because the possessive pronoun makes the brain less willing to let go?)

 :hug: you can always blame covid. Say you aren't feeling great and don't want to take the chance. I just always plan to work on Thanksgiving so I don't have to worry about it.🙂🤷‍♀️ :hug:

I agree with Tee. Okay to use covid as an excuse if you decide not to go. You do have choice; maybe not great choices, but you do get to choose.

Tee and notalone, thank you for your support  :hug: 

I know I don't have to go, but I also know that I'm going to feel bad no matter what I do.
I'm angry that it's such a big deal, and it will make me sick to my * stomach to make an excuse.  Why should I have to make excuses to that woman?  I'd rather be able to tell her that I don't want to come because going to her house is not safe for me, and I don't see any good reason to spend my energy on dealing with it when I don't have any to spare.  I doubt I can do that, though. 

My brother really wants me to come, and although he's not pressuring me and says he'll understand if I don't come, but he doesn't really get it.  I love my brother, but he did not have the same mother I did.  Biologically he did, but lazy parenting is a very different business from abusive parenting.  He said something about placating a couple of suffering old people, but why should I placate my mother?  I wouldn't intentionally cause her harm, but why would the miserable old age this toxic person sowed and is now reaping entitle her to enough of my compassion that I should sacrifice my mental health to placate her?  My brother also referenced the fact that this could be my stepfather's last Thanksgiving, but, wow, talk about someone I don't owe anything.  What I do or don't owe my mother might be complicated on some levels, but my stepfather?  That guy might as well be a complete stranger to me for all the kindness he showed me when I was growing up, and meaningful interaction I've had with him in the years since. 

My siblings have a very different experience of my mother than I do. It can make it difficult, but she is no longer living, so I don't have to deal with issues of visiting and holidays. Bach, it is okay to do what is best for you. You're right, your brother doesn't really get it. When he says things like, "placating a couple of suffering old people," he is coming from his experience, not a place of understanding what you went through.

Bach, your reflections on the upcoming holiday and different experiences with parents resonate with me. 

This time of year is so difficult for so may reasons.  I support you in doing what feels right to you. 

 :hug: Bach you are strong and owe nothing to your mother or step father.  Do what will make you have the best day.  Siblings all have a different experience and can not fully understand the others experience. You have the right to not make excuses and simple take care of yourself. Or if making an excuse is an easier way to take care of yourself than do that.  I'm sure you will do what you think is best for you.  I will be with you in spirit to give you as many hugs as you need and support no matter your choice. Big hug of support  :hug:

I love you folks so much  :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

This is a bad week for my T to be away.

I've just been catching up with your journal, and wanted to send you a hug :hug:. Even though I've not been here much, I've been thinking of you.

I have decided not to go to the mother's house for Thanksgiving.  I've been thinking about how to tell her I'm not coming.  It definitely doesn't feel right to blast her unprovoked with the real reason (i.e., that her house isn't safe and that going there isn't worth the drain on my psychic energy), especially after she went so far as to email me herself to invite me instead of leaving the whole thing to my brother, but I absolutely do not want to make an excuse.  Pretty much everyone in the world regardless of circumstance seems to take for granted that I should or would want to make an excuse, but oh my God, no.  Enough pretending.  Enough silencing me like that.  So I'm thinking about replying to her email invitation with this:

Quote
Hi, Mom,

Thanks very much for the invitation.  I appreciate that you took the time to write to me.

I'm sorry to hear that (stepfather) is not doing well.  I know how difficult that must be for you.  We won't be coming to the house for Thanksgiving, but I'd be happy to hear from you if you'd like to communicate via email.

Best,
(Bach)

I realise that something I'm doing here is daring her to communicate with me.   There is an insistent, persistent part of me that wants to have some kind of dialogue with her.  There has been for a few years now.  I've been fighting it off because I know that trying to communicate with her is fraught with peril for me, and I haven't wanted to deal with that, but the desire simply does not go away.  I've been thinking for months about how to do that safely.  My strong impulse is always to call her, because that's what I always did, and what she always did with her mother, and a part of me has a considerable longing to do that, because it's familiar and because it pleases her, but I ruled that out ages ago because the mere thought of hearing her voice makes me feel anxious and ill.  That leaves only written communication.  I tend to doubt that she will be willing to invest that much effort into me, especially with such a terse invitation, but who knows?  I'm also not totally sure whether I really want her to, but after eighteen or so months of mulling this over and having many discussions with my trusted people about it, I have come to the conclusion that I probably do want her to enough to let her know about it, and take the risk that the neither the discomfort of communicating with her or the discomfort of her being unwilling to communicate will be as distressing as the miserable sick small weak erased invalidated indecisive feeling of not even asking.  I weakly hinted at a desire for email communication back in February when she called my house out of the blue for the first time in longer than I can remember and left me a phone message.  I didn't receive it for a few days after she left it because I was away at the time she called, and I replied to it by telling her I'd been away, and that email would probably be a better way to reach me.  She never replied.  Since then I have regretted that I didn't say something a trifle more welcoming.  So I reckon this is my chance to do that, but I can't find it in me to gussy it up with any warmth-faking language.  My email is terse but all of it is true.  I think I can be comfortable with it because there is no dishonesty, and no communication will be possible if I have to BS anything. 

I'm feeling pretty ill now.  I want to cry.  I want Other.  I want a klonopin but I'll have to try some natural self-soothing methods and try to go to sleep without it, because klonopin tonight will make it more likely that tomorrow the low life-condition in which I nearly always wake up will stick around for the whole day.  Still, I persist.

I sent the above email to my mother yesterday morning.  After I sent it to her, I had a good talk with my brother, and he validated my decision.  He actually does kind of get it.  I have no idea what I'm going to be doing for Thanksgiving, but what a relief to have that sorted out.

 :hug: Good for you Bach honesty and validation.  :applause:  I will hope for the best out come possible for the email whether that be further positive communication or not.  Sending a warm comforting hug of encouragement that was a big step. :hug:

Well done for sending the email, and I'm glad your brother validated your decision. I can imagine the relief. :grouphug:

I proud of you for sending the email that was kind and at the same time true to yourself. I'm glad your brother affirmed your decision.

 :yeahthat: and, may i add that covid is a valid excuse these days, too, for not visiting.  well done, bach!  love and hugs   :hug:

I'm completely overwhelmed by life right now.  I don't know how I'm ever going to feel better.  It's cold and the garden is dead and I'm so tired. 

We're making plans to remodel our house, and there's an architect coming today to take measurements.  I spent a couple of hours yesterday and a couple of hours this morning frantically moving junk around in my bedroom so that she'll be able to get in to do that.  My Person is running around cleaning, as if there's the slightest chance that we can actually disguise at the last minute the chaos we live in.  I think he is annoyed with me because a little while ago I decided to just own the fact that I'm a dysfunctional wackjob with a slight hoarding problem, and that it's a waste of my low energy and high stress levels to spend any more time trying to make that two or three percent less obvious.  I'll need that energy to convince myself that I don't care if the architect judges me.  I'm terrified of this whole process

I've been taking a ceramics class at a local studio for the last few weeks.  I used to do clay many years ago, but haven't touched it since the year 2000.   The class I'm taking is for the basics of handbuilding with clay, and the first project was sculpting a human face.  I didn't think I would particularly want to sculpt a human face or that I would be any good at it, but to my surprise I really enjoyed it.  I'm a little bit in love with the one that I made and I'm anxious about whether or not she'll survive the kiln.  I don't have any reason to think that she won't, but I'm anxious anyway.  I'm already preparing myself for losing her.  What's up with that?

Dear Bach,
I know you are feeling tired at the moment.  Sending you a gentle hug of support and care  :hug:

I think it is so great that you've sculpted a human face, and I really hope that she will be ok in the kiln. 

There was so much in what you wrote about your house that I related to very much.  I think it's a stressful process to have someone coming in like that to take measurements etc, and I hope that they were respectful of your space. 

Hope  :)

 :hug: I'm glad that you found a past hobby to re engage with and you found Joy in it.  Whenever I find joy in something I quickly become fearful that it will be ripped away as it was for most my life.  I wonder if this is not your worry about the kiln?

I hope the remodel goes well. I am always on edge with unknown people in my house. Big encouraging hug on that one. :hug:

sounds to me like you may have transferred some of your own spirit into the face you're anxious about.  could that be so?  i sure do hope she makes it thru the kiln, and is able to stay with you.  she sounds just lovely.

i hate that overwhelmed feeling - it's so heavy, like every time i take a step i'm surrounded by a morass of mud.  it will eventually pass, tho.  just hang tough, ok?

sending love and a hug filled with a lightening agent that will help dissolve some of that overwhelm. :hug:

Fingers crossed with the kiln, and I hope it went ok with the architect. :hug:

Sculpting a human face sounds really challenging. I'm excited for you that you enjoyed the process and the end product.

The architect coming sounds really stressful.  :hug:

Hope, Tee, san, Snowdrop and notalone, I am still struggling, but it heartens me so much to have people here who hear me and who understand my feelings about these things.  I am especially grateful to be heard regarding the clay and the wonderful and exciting but also very frightening feelings stirred up by getting back into that world.  There is nothing but joy in working with the clay itself, the dense damp pliable humid wonder of it, but there's painful history surrounding people and situations in which I've done clay in the past.  The studio where I'm taking the class seems ideal for where I am in life now, but what if I'm wrong?  What if I mess up my relationships at this studio the way I've done before?  I can't do clay without a studio and people.  Tee, you hit the nail on the head with what you said about the fear of joy being ripped away. 

As for the house, I'm not worried about the architect anymore.  I feel comfortable with her, and feel confident that I can work with her without fearing that she will judge me or not take me seriously.  So that's good, but now I am beset with anxiety about My Person and I having to deal with all of our stuff.  Although My Person is generally quite well-adjusted, he and I have very similar hoarding tendencies.  It's one of the few life skills that neither of us have been able to help the other with.  And that's only the beginning.  I really want the remodel because I believe my quality of life here at home will significantly improve once it's done, but I expect a rough road getting there.

Oh, if only I could get decent sleep!

 :hug: I'm glad that you are venturing out small steps. I'm glad you are able to work with your contractor. 

Tee  :hug: :hug:

 :hug: thanks for the hugs how did the face turn out?

Tee, when I was at the studio on Monday, she had not been fired yet.  I was going to go yesterday, but I had too much to do and didn't have the energy.  So I'm hoping to go tomorrow.  Thank you for asking! :hug:

It turns out that I have Thanksgiving plans after all!  The mother's husband took ill a few days ago and is in the hospital, so she cancelled Thanksgiving at her house.  My brother and I had originally thought that it was too late to plan a get-together, so we agreed to do a sort of substitute Thanksgiving some time in December, but my niece and nephew were really upset by the thought of not having proper Thanksgiving dinner on the real Thanksgiving day.  That was rather eye-opening.  We didn't know they cared.  I guess for the past several years, my brother and I have been too preoccupied with the drama of dealing with a holiday with the mother to notice that somewhere in there we managed to create some positive family Thanksgiving traditions that mean so much more than we realised to the kids.  This makes me feel vindicated in my insistence these past few years that giving the kids a sense of family was important enough that I should suck it up and deal with my mother instead of skipping Thanksgiving dinner so I wouldn't have to.  The weird part of all this is that this morning, I feel just as jumpy and anxious and burdened as I would if the mother was going to be there today.  I'm sure I'll relax later, but right now I'm fighting off urges to medicate.

Since I wrote the mother the email telling her I was willing to correspond via email, we have exchanged a couple of letters.  I'm actually really happy about this.  So far I am getting what I want from it.  I am laying groundwork to tell her my truths in ways that will acknowledge her trauma without excusing her from causing mine.  The key factor for me to succeed at doing this will be keeping to my boundaries.  She is already asking to see me, and although I won't rule that out as a future possibility, it sure isn't happening yet. 

Got to get ready to go to my brother's now.  I'd really like to express my gratitude for this community and all the great people here, for listening, for sharing, for supporting, for working so hard to heal, for everything, but this is another one of those things where my fear of expressing my positive emotions blocks my words.  So...yeah. :Idunno: :hug: :bighug: :grouphug:

Hi Bach,
I just wanted to wish you the best for today.   :hug:
Hope  :)

 :yeahthat:

I hope it goes well, my friend. :hug:

 :hug: Bach that's awesome.  I'm glad you are getting to go spend time with your family. Good luck enjoy the traditions you helped create. :grouphug:

bach, i thought you expressed yourself quite well - your words were lovely. 

boundaries are so important, and i applaud you for making that a priority :applause:.  i think this whole area can be one of the most difficult because, not only have ours been trampled on over and over, but we were also made to feel bad, rude, and selfish for having a holding our boundaries.  well done! :thumbup:

hope you had a lovely day and all went smoothly.  love and hugs, my dear :hug:

Glad you are feeling more comfortable with the architect. Wonderful that you had Thanksgiving with "safe" family. Let us know how that face turns out.

Thank you so much for your wishes and hugs, everyone :hug:  I'm happy to tell you that Thanksgiving was a lot of fun, and Face made it through the kiln.  The next challenge there will be glazing, something that I never enjoyed or was very good at.  Hopefully, my excellent teacher will have some good guidance. 

My anxiety is very high today.  I have confidence that I can cope.  Managing my energy and eating responsibly will be key.

 :hug: glad she made it. I'm sure she you will make it beautiful. Glad you had a good day. :hug:

That's good news about Face. :hug:

Hi Bach,
I am glad you enjoyed Thanksgiving, and that Face made it through the kiln, that is great news!  I hope the glazing will go ok. 
Sending you a hug,  :hug:
Hope  :)

Tee and Snowdrop and Hope, thank you so much for the kind words and hugs  ;D :hug: :grouphug:

Today I was confronted with the fact that it is put-up-or-shut-up time to set a boundary with my mother.  I need to tell her that I am willing to correspond but not willing to see her, and I need to decide whether or not I'm willing to explain myself.  Last year I wrote a letter to her that explained from the perspective of having learned about CPTSD why I didn't feel safe seeing her.  I was thinking about how for a while I really wanted to send her that letter, and was almost hoping for an excuse to do it.  So I looked at that letter, thinking I might use a bit of it, and I got hit with some really confused and unpleasant feelings.  Just reading that letter made me feel toxic with fear. 

The idea of telling her my truths was the whole point of my establishing contact.  In our correspondence so far, I have already raised the subject of CPTSD and mentioned some of the things I'm doing to make my life better.  I find myself not wanting to try to explain too much about how it directly pertains to my life and our relationship.  I'd really like for her to look into CPTSD and ask me to discuss it with her, especially because clearly she did to me what was done to her.  So I want to simply acknowledge her request to see me and tell her I would prefer to keep it to correspondence for now without explaining myself, but that feels terrifying too.

Hey Bach, sorry things are so difficult. Stay strong, you can do it! :)

Whatever you do at this point, Bach, I think you might acknowledge that bottom line, it is your life and you're discovering the boundaries that support your continued survival.  Even if they change, feeling out the boundaries you feel you need can be important as you build self-esteem and confidence in your own well-being and ability to live your truth.

It's also important, I think, for you to know that we fully support you. For my part, I offer this  :hug: as a sign of my  own support and appreciation for how hard this is for you. I hope that you'll continue to find ways of self-discovery and especially self-care to help you navigate these rough times.

Bach, you can always give her more information later if that will benefit you. Share what feels safest for you. You don't HAVE to tell her anything.

Thank you for the support and input, Jazzy, woodsgnome and notalone. I decided not to explain myself and told her simply that I would prefer to keep it to correspondence for now. I feel good and comfortable with that.

 :hug: Do what feels safe Bach.  The boundaries are for you to be able to help safe and continue to heal. If you think you need to push yourself then push, if you feel maybe that's too much to fast wait.  There's time.   We are here with love and support no matter what. :hug:

I don't want to feel great, because feeling great is dangerous.  I only just barely feel safe feeling "okay".  And I love praise and approval such as my clay teacher gives me, but that's not safe either, and the blissful contentedness I feel when I leave the studio comes at the cost of INCREASED ANXIETY the rest of the time.  Maybe that's why I can't seem to stop smoking and use my infused mints instead no matter how much I theoretically want to or how much I've proved to myself that they are also effective even if the experience of it is different in a way I need to get used to: Because the compulsive smoking and my unhappiness with it keeps my equilibrium by counterbalancing my recent increase in willingness to hope for more happiness/a better day-to-day quality of life.

I'm trying to come out and trying to connect but I am so full of fear.  I want to hide my sickness and dysfunction, and hide IN my sickness and dysfunction.  I don't want to smile and put a good spin on it.  I don't want to "do it anyway".  I don't want to "TRY".  But I will.  I will do it anyway.  I will try.  And I'll have a healthy dinner, and I won't eat ice cream, and I'll go to bed hoping I feel better tomorrow.  And sooner or later, I probably will. 

Sigh.

weird how that stuff works, bach.  i get it - been there, done that, still do it.

i give you so much credit for forging ahead anyway.  i have faith in you.  love and hugs :hug:

Sending you a gentle hug of support, if that's ok Bach  :hug:

Hope  :)

 :hug: Bach I feel like we could be the same person at times.  I feel the same right now. I shouldn't have gotten out of bed today.  However, I have kids so that's not really an option.  I hope tomorrow is better for you.  One foot in front of the other. Faking it until the smile becomes real. Eventually it will right? I hope one day the trauma fades from memory so I can smile and be in the present. I hope this for you too. :hug: Sending an understanding hug.

Yesterday, I had one of those moments with Other when he surprises me.  He called me up to vent to me about a stressful and frustrating situation he's having at work.  After I listened and made appropriate noises, I thought he was going to hurry me off the phone without having a moment for the bad state I've been in lately.  Sometimes he's not a great listener, and he's always very busy so often doesn't have much time to stay on the phone.   So I was angstily miserabling to him a little bit and though he did indeed have to go, first he remarked that I get like this every year around this time, and that I'll start feeling better soon.  Later in the day I was thinking about that, and I realised that he was probably right.  So I texted him "Every year around this time, eh?" and he called me right back to explain more about what he had observed and how it related to some things he had read about in his partner's medical publications, and what some possible remedies might be.  It always startles me when he demonstrates that even though I often feel invisible to him when I'm not right in front of him, he really is paying attention.  I thanked him for noticing it and sharing it with me, and after he stumbled over a few parting words and got off the phone I said "He loves me.  He does, he loves me" with a big smile.  It was a sunny moment in a very grey and gloomy heart.

Hi Bach,
I love the sunny moment you shared with your Other.  It made me smile, and it was a lovely thing to read on Valentine's Day. 
Sending you a hug  :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you, Hope :hug:

I've just read what you wrote, Bach, and it made me smile too. I hope you start feeling better soon. :hug:

Snowdrop  :hug:

I'm having a very rough week. I've been very down. I'm not sure why. I think it has something to do with my birthday coming up on Friday. I don't have any specific memories of birthdays but something about birthdays is weighing very heavily on Middle B. A few days ago I was feeling really down and longing for Other, and I texted him saying I wished he would come see me for my birthday. He can't. I didn't really expect him to be able to, but for some reason I was hit with a devastating feeling of rejection. I made a conscious decision not to try to deny or escape or hurry myself through that feeling but to fully experience it, while making sure to remember that Other did not actually reject me. He never remembers my birthday but that's because he thinks birthdays are not important, not because he thinks I am not important. And I've never asked him to place any importance on my birthday. I've hinted that I'd like for him to, but I'm not going to hold him responsible for failing to read my mind.

I will recognise myself for realising that my feelings of neglect, rejection, being overlooked, etc., were coming from Middle B and were about what she wanted and couldn't get from the mother rather than from anything Other did or didn't do. In the past I would have made it all about him in my mind, and then possibly caused trouble between us by inadvertently scapegoating  him for how easily the barely healed scabs of Middle B's emotional deprivation still rupture and bleed. So, thank goodness I didn't do that.

Part of me feels that the exercise of choosing to dig in and feel all of it instead of pushing it down or engaging in maladaptive coping methods is a healthy one, but I wonder if somewhere inside me there's a twisted sort of lust for that pain. After restraining myself from saying anything stupid to Other, I laid on the couch and wallowed in the sadness. I text-vented to a friend while crying huge profound silent tears that oozed burningly from my eyes and dripped down my cheeks, and there was something seductive about how fully I gave myself to the utter misery. I felt no catharsis, but there was a sense of satisfaction to be able to genuinely experience such painful feelings without being frightened by them. I think some part of me believes that I can cry off all the old pain. That those giant silent gravid tears dissolve old pain and carry it out of me. For a long time now I have been unable to cry real tears, and something about releasing all that strangely hot thick liquid felt therapeutic. I want to do it again. Maybe I'm just a masochist, or a tragedy-mongerer just like the mother. I'm so confused and so very tired of all of this.

Bach,
First, happy birthday. Here is a very big birthday hug to all of you and especially for Middle B.  :grouphug:

I don't know if this will make sense, because I am processing from what you wrote. I think there is a certain pain when there is hurt that we either blame on something  or someone else or from pain that we push down. There is a different pain when we allow ourselves to feel and experience the pain.

Quote from: Bach on February 26, 2021, 02:54:31 AM
but I wonder if somewhere inside me there's a twisted sort of lust for that pain.


For a long time now I have been unable to cry real tears, and something about releasing all that strangely hot thick liquid felt therapeutic. I want to do it again. Maybe I'm just a masochist, or a tragedy-mongerer just like the mother. I'm so confused and so very tired of all of this.

I wonder if there is an almost joy or happiness in being able to feel and express the pain for what it really is. I have felt the desire to really feel the pain. To be able to feel it and express it honestly, and if the right person is there, to be heard; feels real, true, clean.

Again, I am processing from what you wrote, so I don't know if this makes sense. I don't think you're masochistic.

Dear Bach,
I just wanted to send you a belated Birthday hug  :hug:
Hope  :)

Quote from: notalone on February 26, 2021, 03:11:38 PM
I wonder if there is an almost joy or happiness in being able to feel and express the pain for what it really is. I have felt the desire to really feel the pain. To be able to feel it and express it honestly, and if the right person is there, to be heard; feels real, true, clean.

:yeahthat:
Exactly.  Thank you  :hug: :bighug: 

This morning I wanted come here and type out in bold and in all caps all the negative words about my life that I had in my head.  I don't remember what all of them were, but one of them was definitely "loser" and another was probably "unacceptable".  "Reject" was probably in there, too.  But before I did that, I read some other journals here and started formulating a response, which always takes longer than I think it will.  Then I had to work out over video with my trainer (I thought for many months that I couldn't deal with doing it over video, but around the end of last year I realised that I had to suck it up and do it.  I hate doing it over video, but not actually as much as I thought I would.  Win.  She says grimly).  I was in a very bad mood during my workout.  I told my trainer that I was not going to try to be positive because if I had to spend the energy on trying to generate or fake positivity, I wouldn't have enough left over to do the blanking workout, and getting through the workout was going to have to be enough.  So I did it, and I hated it, and I complained the whole time, and I could see on my trainer's face when we were done that he was just as relieved that it was over with as I was.  So I started to feel bad about my bad attitude and get upset about not having parted warmly as we usually do, but then I had a thought and wrote this:

QuoteI don't have to worry about people who love me deciding they don't love me anymore if I'm in a bad mood, because they know that the good mood me who they love will be back.  It is okay to be negative and in a bad mood as long as I am not being abusive and scapegoating others for my problems.

So after that, I'm still angry and sad and in pain and in a bad mood and not enjoying life at all, but I no longer feel the need to yell those negative words at myself. 

It was child-self who wanted to do that.  I'm not going to pin it to Little B or Middle B or any other B, because the children-selves have been reacting in unified misery and discouragement ever since the phone call I had yesterday with a newer health care practitioner who, contrary to absolutely every professional I've spoken to about my health in the past 30 years, told me that my high cholesterol IS a problem and that I need to address it through my diet.  I've always been told that although my cholesterol numbers are high, they are in balance and not high in the way that is supposed to be bad for you.  Like, literally, "It's not something you need to worry about."  But now somehow it is?  Now I'm going to need to find out how true this is or isn't.  Child-self EXPLODED on this woman in the face of something so discouraging and completely unexpected (especially on top of the similarly unexpected bad news a few weeks ago that I have developed osteoporosis in my spine), with storming and crying and tarry-black negativity. It was like a killing blow to small bright spirits that I have seen glimpses of recently.   But I'm not angry or upset with child-self.  I understand and have compassion.  The children-selves haven't liked this woman from Day 1, and I'm bemused at Adult-self for forgetting that, and not being better prepared to deal with her.  But we'll all forgive each other for all of this and carry on doing things, because we have to keep doing things whether we are happy and feel good or not. 

Bach, glad you stated to your trainer how you were feeling and didn't put on a fake positive attitude.

Quote from: Bach on March 04, 2021, 04:31:13 PM

QuoteI don't have to worry about people who love me deciding they don't love me anymore if I'm in a bad mood, because they know that the good mood me who they love will be back.  It is okay to be negative and in a bad mood as long as I am not being abusive and scapegoating others for my problems.

This is great. I think a lot of us as children have been forced to push things down and not have a way to express them. And it's the distinction you made about not putting the negativity on other people but just expressing it. I think a lot of times people have trouble discerning the two and it makes them uncomfortable which we then take on, but it's not our responsibility. Also, for me, the gym is a way to destress and let those things out in a safe and healthy way (without going into being a weight-dropping crossfit bro - this might be a specific reference)  :applause:

Have you seen Pretend It's A City on Netflix? It's like all those feelings are allowed and valid. Loved Fran.

I've begun to understand that it is incredibly important for me to acknowledge my feelings and not minimise or deny them, even if doing so makes me and other people uncomfortable.  The quest to be acceptable to others is relentless and grinding.  notalone and dollyvee, thank you so much for your understanding and acknowledgement.  And, dollyvee, thank you for that show recommendation!  I have not seen it yet, but I will check it out next time I can lie down and take a couch-and-TV break.

Quote from: dollyvee on March 06, 2021, 10:09:20 AM
This is great. I think a lot of us as children have been forced to push things down and not have a way to express them. And it's the distinction you made about not putting the negativity on other people but just expressing it. I think a lot of times people have trouble discerning the two and it makes them uncomfortable which we then take on, but it's not our responsibility.

Quote from: Bach on March 07, 2021, 04:52:22 PM
I've begun to understand that it is incredibly important for me to acknowledge my feelings and not minimise or deny them, even if doing so makes me and other people uncomfortable.  The quest to be acceptable to others is relentless and grinding.

I relate to the struggle.

Trigger warning - Child abuse



















I wish my mother had just kept squeezing.

Bach, I tried highlighting and changing to text to black, but I wasn't able to read what you shared.  :hug:

notalone, thank you for replying. I don't know what happened but my post isn't there. It was really just a bunch of whining anyway  :'(

I hope you are doing okay  :hug:

Bach, your feelings are important.  :grouphug:

Bach, I agree with Notalone, that your feelings are important.   :hug:
Hope  :)

Hope and notalone, I appreciate your responses.  Thank you  :hug: :hug: :grouphug: 

I'm a total mess right now.  I can't string two thoughts together.  I keep remembering bits of things that have happened in my life and feeling this wretched stew of fear and anxiety and anger and self-hatred.  I feel so frustrated that I can't get past this crap.  I wonder if I will ever feel good again. 

Trigger warning, child abuse.  In white.  It'll be there this time, I checked!

My mother tried to suffocate me when I was a baby.  She also did that when I was 9 or 10 years old, put her hands around my neck and squeezed until I started to black out.  I don't know why she stopped.  She did a lot of messed up things to me.  She was always taking me to doctors trying to find out what was "wrong" with me.  I think probably most of what was "wrong" with me is that she tried to suffocate me when I was a baby.
The malnutrition didn't help either.  But my mother did want a sick child.  There was that time that I told her I had blood in my poo.  She was very excited about that, until it turned out to just be a surface tear from my severe constipation, and not anything glamourous.  But I've written about this before.  There are so many other weird things I sort of remember, but my mind goes blank when I try to write or talk about them.  Also, they don't seem like such a big deal when I try to put them into words.  So maybe I've made all this up.  I want to die.  I wish I was dead.  I don't really feel that way.  I just want the suffering to stop.  I want to feel good.  Be happy.  Live.  Create.  Have friends.  Relax.  Be calm.  Feel good.  I said that already.  I cannot ^%&*)(&)^ tolerate this brain I have.  It's too much.  Why can't I make it stop?

I want to ask my mother whether her mother suffocated/strangled her.  I suspect that's where she learned it from.  In fact, I suspect that pretty much all the bad things she did to me were done to her.  I can't talk to her about it, though, because she would interpret it as absolution.  Why is it so important to me not to absolve her?  Some people say that forgiving your abuser sets you free, but to me, it feels like forgiving her would be negating myself and accepting forever that it wasn't them, it was ME.  I am so confused and in so much pain.  She's suffering right now too.  Her 94-year-old husband has dementia and is making her life *.  I haven't spoken to her, but my brother tells me.  We're not sure what's actually going on because she is, of course, a thoroughly unreliable narrator, but neither of us have any doubt that someone who was already a mean old man 50 years ago when he was healthy is no picnic to live with as a mean old man who keeps having health crises but somehow remains astonishingly durable.  I've been fighting an ugly urge to call her or write to her and taunt her under the guise of sympathy.  Self-preservation stops me for now, but I'm not sure what will happen after my brother moves 14 time zones away later this year.  Oh yeah, that's also happening.  I can't with this life.  I can't, I can't, I can't.
But I must.  I must.  And without drugs!  :fallingbricks:

Bach, I'm sorry I can't read anything like that atm but I want to send you some care and if it's safe, then a  :hug: If not safe, then ignore.

Bach, I feel compassion for you that you are in so much pain now. I wish I could hug you IRL.  :hug:

I started writing a lot about "absolving" your mom, but it seemed too much in my head for where you are at right now. I will just say that for me, forgiveness is a complex, many layered issue.

Blueberry, I understand, and I thank you for your care and your hug  :hug: 

Notalone, thank you, too :hug:  I would really like to know your thoughts about "absolving", "forgiving", etc., if you want to share them.  I appreciate your being careful of my mental state, trying not to lay too much on me like that, but I think perspectives on that issue could be helpful to me.  It is indeed a complex and many-layered one, and an ongoing source of ambivalence and confusion for me.  There was a time when I was deeply attached to the idea that I must stay angry and not forgive, but now I don't really know what to think or feel about it.  So if you can, and especially if it would be good for YOU, please do share.

I realised today that lately I have been in a sort of ongoing emotional flashback, not to a specific incident, but to actual emotions, those of feeling inadequate, unworthy, unloved, unwanted.  I have the age-old tape playing in my head, the one I remember so well from childhood, "Nobody loves me.  Nobody wants me.  I am ugly.  I am bad", etc.  I have the desire to ask for reassurance, but even if I ask for it and receive it, it doesn't satisfy.  My Person tells me all the time how much he loves and cares about me, but it feels empty.  I want Other to tell me he loves me, but he doesn't use those words.  I have had a very hard time restraining myself from asking for some kind of reassurance from him, but I must, because asking him for reassurance either directly or indirectly would probably cause a fight and that's the last thing I need right now.  I realise, writing this out, that this mirrors my relationships with my parents.

It's almost time for therapy.  Oh boy.  That's another problem. 

I'm really sorry that happened to you and I don't think it's a rant or whining to try and untangle the place you're in now. When you have to go through experiences like that and your parents dress them up in a different manner and the outside world seems to recognize the functioning guise of a "family" (this is what I'm getting from your post but I may be projecting), it's a crazy making place to be in. I hope you are safe now too  :hug:

My mom was along similar lines and seemed to have a need to be "powerful" over me. For a long time I was angry - I am being reasonable and trying to talk to you about it but it's falling on deaf ears. Then the move away and make my own life phase - this is the most tricky I think because I have to come to terms with why she was not responsive and it doesn't make "rational" sense (I think what did I do, why am I a bad person, maybe I'm not understanding enough). I didn't get a lot of answers, it was just a soup really. Understanding that her behaviour comes under the narcissism definition and what that means, a big part of which was realizing that I have the right to stand up for myself against that behaviour (and that I have to because she wasn't going to be the mom that I needed and stand up for me), was a good start to disentangling from everything and putting it back together in a way that made sense. I was always walking the line between being angry and trying to feel sympathetic about what ppl in my family may have had to go through. Although, I did always feel that if I had a choice to make the effort not to pass this stuff on, then they did too. It was only after she died that I felt "released," or partially released. I think there is a very strong, very subconscious, deep part that always wanted my mom to be that person that I needed. Even though I could intellectually understand that she was a narc/never going to be that person/etc, the idea didn't trickle down to this part. But after she died it felt like it had closure on that idea and could start to move forward.

I've been processing this a lot lately (hence the rambling message) and I don't know if it's forgiveness (because to me that says it's ok you did that to me; or a part doesn't feel protected by that like she's going to stomp all over my boundaries/person again) but can see it as a compassion for the things that she had to go through. That this was her time on earth and she had those things to do for her own self. I also would say that it's not just compassion for her, but compassion for her through me as I've come to understand that some of my parts have mirrored her behaviour and taken on that critical harshness as a means to protect myself, but in understanding those parts of me that have taken it on and feeling compassion towards them, I also feel compassion towards her. Through absolving myself, I am absolving her. That if I am in this much pain, I can imagine how much pain she must have been in to do these things to me and the amount of self-loathing she had to do those things to herself. 

These are just my thoughts....thank you for letting me share them. I'm not sure if they relate to you or not.

dollyvee, thank you for your response :hug:  It's a lot to think about.  As I was reading what you wrote, the thing that came into my mind was the idea of absolving myself.  I'm not completely sure what that would mean but there's something there.  I would like to not constantly feel like a helpless victim.  I feel that there's a connection to be made there, and I will be thinking about it.  Maybe forgiveness or absolution or whatever it is means something different to me now than it did before.  I think I have been coming from a mistaken idea that if it's not my fault then it must be hers, but I am realising that the whole notion of "fault" is a drastic oversimplification.  Perhaps there is progress to be gained for me in finding a different way to look at it.  I'm not sure what that way would be, especially because I struggle to think about my mother from any perspective other than that of the hurting and gaslighted child, but I will keep working on it. 

Meanwhile, I got my covid vaccination today, and what a ordeal that was.  The shot itself was nothing, but HELLO FLASHBACKS.  So humiliating.  I wanted to write about it but I feel too ashamed, too small and weak and too much like a mother-blaming victim.  Not good.  I'm supposed to see Other this evening.  I hope I can make it.  I'm going to lie down now.

It's good to hear that you found something in it. I've been doing some IFS recently and this is the direction my parts have kind of led me in. I came across a book called The Energetic Dimension and might be a bit out there for some but this resonated with me. She writes:

"Whether we blame ourselves, the other, or both, we are stuck in the energy of blame and it is difficult to heal. I have found from my many years of doing psychotherapy and shamanic work that no one can deeply heal until they are able to develop compassion for themselves and all that they went through, and in time, come to a place of understanding as to why the person that harmed us did so...The Energy of blame stems from the dualistic perspective of right and wrong. Either I am right or they are right. It assumes that the other set out to intentionally hurt us, that there are no extenuating circumstances to explain why the other acted as they did...They project their own pain and wounds onto their child thereby perceiving the child as the worst version of themselves; one that deserves to be beaten and verbally abused."

I relate to what she's say but it's taken me a long time to get to a place of understanding and beginning to see it that way  :fallingbricks: :hug:

Sorry you're having flashbacks. Those feelings are valid and they're probably trying their best to protect you.

Hi Bach,
I wanted to say that I hope you're feeling a bit better after your covid vaccination.   Look after yourself, and I'm sending you a safe hug  :hug:  I hope you were able to see Other, as I know you hoped to be able to. 
Hope  :)

Bach, I'm sorry that getting the vaccine caused flashbacks.

Quote from: Bach on March 29, 2021, 02:58:09 PM
Notalone, thank you, too :hug:  I would really like to know your thoughts about "absolving", "forgiving", etc., if you want to share them.  I appreciate your being careful of my mental state, trying not to lay too much on me like that, but I think perspectives on that issue could be helpful to me.  It is indeed a complex and many-layered one, and an ongoing source of ambivalence and confusion for me.  There was a time when I was deeply attached to the idea that I must stay angry and not forgive, but now I don't really know what to think or feel about it.  So if you can, and especially if it would be good for YOU, please do share.

Bach, these are my thoughts in process. Certainly no conclusions or answers here.

I think that if there is someone who I need to forgive, that person has harmed me in some way. There is a need for justice, for payment. Maybe the definition of forgiveness is letting go of the need for pay-back. If someone steps on my toe and I am hurt, do I pay back by stomping on his toe? Do I forgive, i.e. release the person from the need of punishment? Of course we are talking about issues and injury much bigger and longer lasting then a sore toe.

Unless we are talking about a legal case, the irony is that holding on to the desire for justice, hurts us, not the person who harmed. In my case most of those people are dead or no longer in my life. So why do I hang on to the desire for payback?

Truthfully, I want that person to hurt. I want them to pay for the injury they caused me.
Somehow, hanging onto the desire for justice, feels like a protection to me. If I say, "I no longer require ________ to pay/suffer for what she did to me. I leave that in God's hands," am I making myself vulnerable to further injury? I feel this, even though the person is no longer in my life.

I guess the question to ask myself is: "Why am I holding onto the desire for that person to pay? What is keeping me from letting go of that?" Not an easy question to answer and probably many answers and many layers.

Regarding someone asking for forgiveness: Awhile ago, someone hurt me deeply. Another friend asked me if he had asked me to forgive him. I said no. I realized that if he had asked me to forgive him, that would be for HIM. It seems that it would close the door on further discussion. For him to acknowledge, "I know I hurt you when I did _______ . I'm really sorry," lets me know he got what he did and that it was harmful. It allows for further conversation. Me forgiving is something that happens in me, when I'm ready.

I would also say there is a difference between forgiveness (something that happens within me) and restoration (involving two people).

You used the word "absolving." To me that means the person is free from guilt. Personally, I think that is something only God can do. Forgiveness, letting go of MY desire to see justice served, is something that can happen within me.

I think forgiveness is an ongoing process, not a one-time thing.

I hope this doesn't add confusion. I am processing and my thoughts about it today may change over time.

Hi everyone  :wave:  I just wanted to say Hi and say that I'm still here.  I've been having a very hard time both physically and mentally since I got the vaccine, but I'm still here.  I wish I could write but it's too hard.  The blank page makes me freeze.  Maybe soon?  I hope so.

Lots of love to my friends here  :hug: :grouphug:

 :grouphug:

Hi Bach,
Sending you warm hugs  :hug:
Hope  :)

Hi!  :hug:

"Maybe soon?" We all hope so, but it's also great just to know you're still here, an important cog for all our journeys. Best to you ...

           :grouphug:

Thank you for the hugs, notalone, Hope, Armadillo and woodsgnome  :hug: :grouphug: 

Many bad feelings running around in here.  I feel GUILTY because objectively, my life is really good right now.  It's certainly better than it could be, and better by far than it was when I was younger.  There are plenty of people functioning much better than I am in much worse conditions.  And yet all I do is whine and feel sorry for myself and wish that I was dead.

Also, I am FRUSTRATED, because I don't know what's holding me back and I don't understand why I can't get past it.  There's no reason why I should be so sick and depressed, inert and dysfunctional.  I believe there is something deep down in my psyche that simply will not let me feel good and be well.  I understand why it's there (because of my childhood, my mother didn't want me didn't feed me didn't cuddle me, my father gave up on me, nobody nurtured me they hated me resented me, blah blah, waah, waah, whine, whine whine whine whine whine whine), but not why I am so powerless against it.  I am so (*^&^%*^ sick of therapy, discussing ad nauseum all the old hurts and complaints, going over the same old ground again and again, understanding how and why I got like this but never able to figure out what to do about it!  And every day is a struggle, every single little thing I do whether chore, routine or recreation, whether it's an understandable drudgery or whether it's something that I theoretically like to do and should be able to enjoy doing, every single little thing is painful and difficult.  I fight through it as much as I can, falling well short all the way, and then when I have nothing left I lie on the couch watching TV, waiting for bedtime, half-wishing to not wake up in the morning, half-fearing that my life will be over before I know it without me being finished yet!!!, hoping for a good night's sleep, hoping to wake up feeling ready to face the day, never getting either one.  I have clay class today and I should be/want to be/wish I was excited about that and looking forward to it, but all I can manage is the very slightest and most obligation-bound feeling of "Yeah, I'll do that, and then I'll be glad it's done, and I'll go home and watch some stupid TV show again."  THIS IS NOT LIVING.

(But at least I wrote something!)

 :hug:

I think a lot of us can relate quite well to all of that. And it sounds like such a struggle to get through each day. It's so hard...painful...to be kind to ourselves so we can't really see and appreciate how hard we are working, how little we actually whine compared to the suffering we go through each day, compared to the abuse or neglect dished out to us. Please keep coming back and telling us how hard it is so we can help you see you are not weak and whiny. You are persevering even though your brain right now doesn't want to let you feel joy. That's pretty amazing.

Do me a favor today in clay class? Steal a tiny little piece of clay and shape something funny under the table. I have the sense of humor of a child so you can think of me there with you giggling at whatever you make. Just show it to me for a split second and then you can squish it. Oh and no pressure to be witty or anything. I will quite literally laugh at anything. It's my superpower.

On a serious note...
I don't know the answer other than to keep trying different things.  I worked on the same entrenched  problem the same way for years but the tools we used were mostly CBT. Switching the tool cracked this issue for me literally almost over night and I do feel a lot more lightness peace and joy. All the work leading to up to that moment was vital to it working but it was never going to be the thing that pushed it to the point of complete relief.

Hi Bach,
Yes, you did write something.  What you wrote made a lot of sense to me.  I wanted to send you a supportive hug, if that's ok  :hug:
Hope  :)

My stepfather died on Friday.  This is not a personal loss for me because I never had much of a relationship with him even when I was a child and we lived in the same house.  He had no love for me and mostly ignored me, unless he was enlisted by my mother to participate in my abuse which he did perhaps not enthusiastically but certainly without hesitation.  Still though, he's been around since my parents divorced when I was 4, and his death is causing me considerable emotional turmoil.  I haven't had any discrete or definable emotional flashbacks, but I'm in that state nonetheless.  I honestly don't even know how to write about it.  My therapist is away, how's that for timing?  Also, I have editing work I have to do...on a film all about the damaging effects of rejection in childhood. 

Despite all this, I am functioning relatively well.  I am not falling apart.  I am not getting wasted.  I am not bingeing.  I am not cutting myself.  Somehow I am existing weirdly calmly even though I am completely and totally miserable.  And that is its own kind of *.  I am Middle B on a calm day, awake, aware, carefully staying out of trouble, waiting for shoes to drop.  How did I survive this?

I can't properly acknowledge the replies, Armadillo and Hope, but I see you there and I appreciate you.  Thank you for being here.

I can't imagine what a strange and confusing and difficult and painful week this might be for you. I just want to say it would make sense to feel a lot of mixed up emotions, to have memories stirred up that are challenging to deal with, no warning, and that I am really proud of you for not hurting yourself as you deal with this all. Keep it up,  keep being kind to yourself. Do things you need to feel nurtured.  :hug:

Thank you for the reply and the hug, Armadillo  :hug:

My stepfather's memorial is on Wednesday. I am dreading the crazy. Apparently there are disputes between my mother and stepbrothers about the arrangements. I shudder to think.

I am trying to nurture myself but I'm not very okay right now. I haven't been doing anything self-destructive and I look okay from the outside, but inside I feel just like I did when I was a kid and my whole life felt like a trap from which there was no hope of escape except that mythical future of "when you grow up" that I could not imagine would ever happen. Nothing was good. There was no love and no joy. There was only survival and nobody loved me. Why didn't anybody love me? Now in the present, in 2021 I'm still wondering why nobody loves me. Even though there ARE people who love me! I live with one and know a few others. But still in my head, that tape is playing, over and over: "Why doesn't anybody love me?"

I wish I could go back to 1965, the year I was born, and cuddle me. Cuddle me and feed me and love me and rewrite the terrible future that has me lying here now feeling a weight on my chest and trapped tears that will not fall from my eyes, too weak and sore and stiff and pained to live, to terrified to die, thinking of that poor baby, that poor child, that poor little me and wishing there was anything at all I could do to make it better.

Those sound like sad but nurturing thoughts to have, Bach. You deserved and deserve to be loved. I really relate to that feeling of being trapped and it is my number one trigger...that feeling. Anything you can do to let down a side of that box and get out of the trap? You can choose to skip the memorial if you need to.  :hug:

Quote from: Armadillo on May 31, 2021, 04:56:42 AM
Those sound like sad but nurturing thoughts to have, Bach. You deserved and deserve to be loved. I really relate to that feeling of being trapped and it is my number one trigger...that feeling. Anything you can do to let down a side of that box and get out of the trap? You can choose to skip the memorial if you need to.  :hug:

I can't skip it.  I have to go.  I could say that it's because of my brother or my husband or whatever, but the truth is, it's because of me.  I need to go because I need to be a person that I can live with.  I'm fed up with being afraid to see my mother.  There was a time when eschewing contact with my mother served and strengthened me, but that time is past.  Now I need to be able to face her and everything that comes with her without making myself sick over it.  There are things I need to tell her before she dies, and I can't do that if I can't face her. 

That's hard, Back. But I understand your motive.

On another note, it reminds me of the time my best friend told me that he went and spoke to his mother after hears of not seeing her. He said that she looked smaller than he remembered, and he wondered if it wat because he wasn't so scared of her anymore.

Bach, I haven't been on OOTS for a few weeks. Today I was able to catch up on your journal. It makes sense that your stepfather's death is bringing up a lot for you including the lack of love. Sending you lots of care, dear Bach.  :grouphug:    :bighug:

I love what you said Bach. You are going for the "right" reasons. That shows how very strong you have gotten during this time and it brings me a lot of hope for myself too. I'll be sending you lots of strength and kind thoughts as you face this fear.

Dear Bach,
I am sending you a supportive hug  :hug: if that's ok.
Hope  :)

Hello, friends.  Thank you for the replies and hugs.  I miss interacting here and appreciate you all, but I'm just unable to connect lately.  I often have that problem in real life, too.  I suppose that's why I have very few friends, and why it's absolutely killing me that my brother is moving away to Australia next month.  I understand why he's going and that it's not personal, that he is sad that his going means being separated from me and that he will miss me, but I keep having storms of "He's leaving me!  How can he *&%^$%^&* LEAVE ME?  :'( :stars: :fallingbricks: :bawl: :blowup: :blowup: :sharkbait:.  He's basically my only local friend.  But that's not what I came here to talk about.


Triggers in white.

I went to the stupid bleep-bleep insert-many-expletives-here memorial gathering last week, and I handled it genuinely truly well.  The gathering was in the back yard at the house down by the shore my mother now lives in, which was originally my grandparents's weekend house during the summers.  When I was a kid, we spent the summers down there, and the back yard was a beautiful place with a large though geographically uneven lawn, a vegetable garden, fruit trees, flowerbeds, mint, a grape arbor, slate patios, a raspberry patch, a slightly fascinating but gross compost heap (and the ugly brown jug that always sat on a mat in the kitchen into which waste vegetable matter from the kitchen was placed to later be carried all the way across that lawn to the furthest recess of the property) to be added to said pile), and corner of deep shade at the back in which my grandfather used to rest on a fold-up beach lounger on hot days.  I have a story in my mind that I used to play on the ground next to his chair and that he would sometimes reach down and ruffle my hair, but to be honest, I'm pretty sure I made that up.  At least the hair-ruffling part.  My grandfather was not a demonstrative man.  I have no idea what he thought or felt about anything, but I do know that he, like everyone else in my family, bought into my mother's narrative about me being a pest and a troublemaker, and I know that he was no lover of silly, noisy children, particularly female ones.  I remember a lecture he gave me when I was ten about how I was now in my "second decade" of life, and as such it was time that I learned to...What?  I DON'T *&%^$%^&* KNOW.  I just remember the stern, unforgiving tone and the repetition of the phrase "second decade".  Maybe I would have been able to get to know my grandfather as the years went on if he hadn't committed suicide by hanging a month before I turned twelve.  Ooops!  Off track again. 

Anyway.  The memorial.  It was scheduled for late afternoon, and somewhere from the universe came an inspiration that I should avoid sitting should avoid sitting around all day being anxious about it by doing things to take care of myself.  So I splurged on the luxuries.  I had a long massage, and then I had my hair done by the young woman I was lucky enough to find a couple of years ago after I confronted my haircut trauma (no, Bach, don't go into the haircut trauma here.  Maybe another time).  It was actually kind of amazing to me that I chose to get my hair done as pleasurable self-care rather than as a dreaded task to be done only when absolutely necessary, and sometimes not even then, but for the first time in my life, it was actually a nurturing and strengthening experience.  I freakin' love that woman who handles my hair and me with deference and care, rather than treating the unusually thick and luscious glory on my head as their personal playground.  On top of the childhood trauma around my hair, you would not believe the kind of intrusive pressure I've had from hairstylists to experiment with what grows out of my scalp!  And what do you know, there I go again.  Wow, I really don't want to write about that bloody memorial, do I?  Even though I DO want to, and even more, I NEED to.  But I think maybe I can stop now and do some chores, and continue later. 

Hi Bach,
I read what you wrote, and wanted to offer you a hug of support  :hug:  I am sorry to hear that your brother is going to be moving away. 
Hope  :)

Quote from: Hope67 on June 10, 2021, 03:47:00 PM
Hi Bach,
I read what you wrote, and wanted to offer you a hug of support  :hug:  I am sorry to hear that your brother is going to be moving away. 
Hope  :)

Thank you, Hope.  You are awesome :hug:

Hello Bach,

I'm here to encourage you and say how great it is to recognize that the person who you permitted to "do" your hair felt respectful and caring towards you. It's always hard to find a way to deal with multiple soul wrenching experiences simultaneously. Your choice to go to a safe person who treats you well is the best!  :yes:

Bach, I would have a tough time with someone so close to me moving away too.  I also can relate to not being ready to face reflecting on an event.  We will be here when and if you feel ready to share.

I appreciated the descriptiveness of the memories you shared, especially about the compost heap.  I am currently trying to learn to compost and it wakes up some deep "yuck" in me.  Your story of your hairdresser also resonated with me.  My current hairdresser has been so helpful in my healing journey and I appreciate how she is helping me navigate sharing what I want my hair to look like. 

We'll be here when you are ready and able to finish. I'm so happy you treated yourself well.  :hug:

 :grouphug:   Bach, I read your entire post. You have so many thoughts and feelings, so much that you are holding now. Sending care to you.

I didn't want to write about the way that what used to be the beautiful garden is now a neglected overgrown mess. There's still a goodly chunk that is lawn, a big enough area to host three dozen or so people for this ridiculous memorial, but the rest is covered with ivy. So much ivy. All over everything and creeping in. My grandfather's corner is filled with junk trees. There's the 2' stump of a tree that my brother helped plant when he was very young that was cut down some time since 2014 when I last saw the house, and it's just a hump under the ivy. This in particular haunts me.

I DID want to write about the sad awfulness of a memorial service for a man who wasn't really close to anyone besides the black hole of narcissism that is my mother, and who no one knew quite what to say about. But honestly, that seems so inconsequential now compared to that ivy jungle. Possibly because last week I aired it all out talking with my brother about all of it.

There was other family stress last week, and, complicated by a slow recovery from the covid vaccine, I have fallen ill and am on full rest. Full rest is hard but it will work if I pursue it conscientiously and with patience, mentally as well as physically. I'm making a plan for a long slow recovery. I always rush myself back into activity too quickly and it's become obvious to me that's a big part of the reason I have not been able to improve my physical health despite many years of efforts. Along with my physical exhaustion I'm reckoning with some really deep trauma stuff. I pushed too hard with tapping about that yesterday and freaked out Middle B, who went into a pretty intense flashback when it was time to sleep. She did not want to be comforted in any way that I could offer. So I simply acknowledged her struggle and then stayed with her until she could let go and go to sleep. I don't know what she was afraid of. I'm not sure she knows. I think she may have been having flashbacks of things done to us when we were all baby SE.

Bach, I appreciate you offering these reflections.  I am here with you as you navigate your way. 

Bach, I'm glad you are resting and giving yourself permission for a long, slow recovery.

Middle B., I know how difficult it can be when it is time to sleep. Sounds like you had a lot of really big feelings. I know how scary and hard that is.

Dear Bach,
I also appreciated reading your reflections, and I want to send you a supportive hug  :hug: plus lots of care your way.  :grouphug:
Hope  :)

I'm gently thinking of Middle B and all she is carrying. And cheering on you for resting and recovering.

Thank you all so much for reading and responding. I feel cared about which I appreciate because right now I am very down and feeling bad about myself for being unable to work or do anything at all. Having to ask my husband for everything. Being afraid he will think I'm exaggerating or faking but also being afraid that if I am not able to be strict enough about this full resting thing I will never get better and will end up like my aunt, who took to her bed in her 40s and stayed there for 35 years hating everyone and everything until she died of cancer.

Bach,

Could you see your asking and accepting help as a step of growth? Sometimes in life, all we can do is hang on, and live through the day. I've had 4 such "episodes" each lasting variable amounts of time and the last being fairly recent. Rest is probably the hardest concept to grasp, then execute. We're used to doing, doing, and doing some more. Proving, striving, reaching and planning.  :blink:

You have support and encouragement here. Getting better happens in a series of forward/backward moves. Dig into what makes you special and unique. Hold it in your hands over your heart and breathe gently.

Beekeeper, thank you for your thoughtful and understanding post. Resting is SO hard, especially because not being able to use my body leaves me trapped in my racing, grinding mind.

Today I am feeling humbled by realising how much I take physical movement for granted even on a low energy day. My poor body. I have treated it horribly and completely ignored it while always chasing fixes for my brain. It's all been about my mood. I have never really asked my body what it needs, only came up with thing after thing to try to address my psyche and mental functioning, then expected my body to blindly obey my capricious will. Then I have abused and punished it when it didn't do what I wanted, all in the name of fixing my mood. It's one thing for me to heal my Inners, but what about my Outer?

Bach, take heart. It is possible to be kind and "catch up". Your body is a wonderful resource! I know what you mean when you have pursued mind fixes and left your physical self in the dust. My wake up calls resulted twice in seeing bones and joints protruding. Over time it bounces back and then I'm looking at calories, etc. The point being our body lets us know somehow, someway it's unhappy. For people who have been raised with the idea of "bootstrapping" and mind over matter, whatever you call it, it divides the mind/spirit/self into pieces.

You might consider itty bitty things. Walking, if you feel safe outside, sitting in a quiet spot to let your spirit refresh. No all recovery has to include movement. Never mind hot baths and candles. Although valid, I tend to roll my eyes. If you start to feel any sensation or feeling like you are buzzing with uncertainty, take a break and isolate yourself until you figure out what's happening. It takes practice, but it's possible. You can do it!

Hi Bach,

I realize I haven't posted in your journal much at all. I apologize for that.

Your previous post here sounds very eye opening. It makes sense to me that you would prioritize your mind over your body because the body is completely dependant on the mind to function. I have done the same thing.

To me, the fact that your mind is now well enough to begin to consider what your body needs is a sign of tremendous healing and growth! That's awesome!  :cheer:

I hope you continue to heal like this, and when your mind and body are in a good place, perhaps you can look towards nourishing others. :)

Jazzy <3

 :hug: sending a big hug of calm for you Bach. Sorry I've been MIA. I've been pretty low and struggling for a while. But wanted to stop in and let you know you have been in my thoughts and heart.  Sorry to hear that you are struggling to rest and heal.  Sending you a big hug to make you smile. :hug: :hug: :hug:

:wave:It's Middle B. Bach is still too tired and resting to write about all the things on her mind but I wanted to say Hi everyone! HI EVERYONE!  :cheer: I'm lonely and bored and it's nice to see you all!  :grouphug::bighug:

We went out for a minute this morning to see the sun and the flowers and get a lavender. Here's a picture of asparagus that Bach found growing in the flowerbed in front of the house. What? What's it doing there? Asparagus lives way around the back.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51289152592_711886bd57_c.jpg

And here are some flowers I took pictures of when we went out and laid in the grass and I looked up at the clouds for a little while this afternoon. That was so nice and relaxing until somebody set off a fireworks. It didn't scare me too much but Bach was worried if there was another one it would scare me and that made It harder to watch the cloudmovies. So I took these pictures and we went inside.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51290464728_44a66a92ed_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51291004169_fc9b48bceb_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51290288961_51559e8079_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51289539592_f24bb5d5bd_b.jpg

Bach says enough we gotta rest now! I don't wanna but I promised her I would try so bye for now!  :wave:

Thank you for sharing your pictures, Middle B.

:grouphug:                :waveline:                 :bighug:                  :boogie:

 :hug: it's good to here from you middle Bach. I'm sorry Bach is having such a rough time. The pictures are pretty. I hope your were able to rest. Resting is hard sometimes but very important.  Sending lots of hugs for all the parts. Sorry I've been gone it's been a rough time. :grouphug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Hi Middle B! :wave: :grouphug:

I can relate to feeling unwell after the covid vaccine, Bach. I felt awful after mine, the first one in particular. It took me quite a while to fully recover from it. I hope you're able to rest and be gentle with yourself. Thinking of you. :hug:

Hi Middle B!  :grouphug:

I love the volunteer asparagus!!!! Surprise!!!

Hi Everybody!  I'm so happy to see you all here :bighug:  I'm starting to get really lonely and sad because I'm stuck in here and Bach can't do anything and she's really DARK, really DARK and SCARY because she has so many thoughts.  I'm not really too scared because she's not scary like my mom when my mom had too many thoughts but I'm so BORED and SAD and scared that she might get scarier.  I'm so glad we live with Bach and Her Person now and not with my mom but I wish Bach could write about her thoughts because I can hear them but I don't really understand them, and that keeps being one of her thoughts, that she needs to write about her thoughts, and maybe if she'd write about them she could stop being scary.  I want to draw or play with clay or go in the garden or go to the pool and we can't do that stuff because we have to keep resting.  When are we going to get better?!?

Anyway here's a picture of a bee  https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51303099468_21927cf72e_b.jpg

That's a beautiful picture of a Bee, Middle B (?). It's such a beautiful caramel color. I'm glad you're writing when Bach can't.  I wish you were not stuck in there, lonely and bored, and scared. I'm glad you don't live with your mom anymore, too. What do you like to do that's fun? I love your energy. It reminds me of my little girl. She's 9 and very bouncy and wants to do a lot of things all the time.

I love the picture of the bee.  It is so pretty, and looks very comfortable in the flower, gathering the pollen.  I love the big hug you gave to us all as well - those big hugs are lovely. 

Hope  :)

Hello, friends.  It's ordinary adult Bach here, not in a good way.  Something is wrong with me and I don't know whether it's even real.  I feel awful, have random pains, no energy and no appetite, and every morning I wake up horribly sick to my stomach, but I've begun to wonder whether I have a genuine physical illness, or whether this is somehow something psychological.  It doesn't feel psychological, but it also doesn't make any sense.  If it's psychological, why can't I just be over it?  After everything I've been through in my life I can't figure out any reason why anything that is happening now would have put me into this non-functional state, where all I do is lie on the couch and either watch TV or try to figure out ways to use my screens without hurting my neck.  I literally stink and I can't even manage a shower.  That makes it sound like depression, but it hasn't felt like depression.  At least, not any depression I ever had before.  At least, not before now.  Now on top of my physical symptoms, I have been starting to feel hopeless, like there's no point, like nothing is ever going to get any better.  Like I might give my mother the dead daughter she's always wanted.

Except, no, not really.  I don't actually want to die.  I just want to feel better.  I want to have my life, to live my life.  I'm starting to worry that I never will.  That somehow this is my life now, that vitality, joy, desire, ambition, love, friendship, pleasure, positive energy, are all lost to me for good.  Is this because of my miserable old stepfather dying?  Is it because I've been communicating a bit via text messages with my mother?  I've felt mostly positive and empowered by my communications with my mother, not because those exchanges are warm and wonderful and fulfilling, but because I feel that I've handled them so well and so sanely.  But maybe nothing is particularly different for me with her, because I'm remembering now that in the past, before my years of no contact, it never mattered how I felt about speaking with her or visiting with her.  I would have no idea that the conversation or visit had been negative in any way, but then afterward I would do self-destructive things like binge on weed and junk food or pick a fight with Other or whatever the heck else I used to do, and get sick.  I always thought it was the self-destructive behaviour that made me sick (especially after the time that I ate almost an entire Costco-sized bag of coconut chips and then couldn't poop for a few weeks) but now I'm wondering whether it wasn't that at all, whether the self-destructive stuff was an attempt to escape or excuse or substitute for the sickness.  I've been so proud of myself for not reacting to contact with my mother by doing self-destructive things, but maybe the self-destructive things were always beside the point.  Maybe contact with her really does poison me. 

If so, I'm stuck.  Really stuck.  No-contact wasn't helping anymore.  Re-establishing some kind of relationship really seemed so much like the right thing to do after two years(!) of thinking about it, discussing it with my therapist and my closest people, figuring out what my needs and my motives were, figuring out what I thought would be safe.  If my mother poisons me whether I have contact with her or not, where does that leave me?  If the poison is inside me and there's no way to get it out, I will never be free.  I will never be well.  And poor little Middle B, well...I will never enjoy her gifts.  Neither will she.  Her creativity and enthusiasm and beautiful energy.  All the things that no one ever really saw or understood or appreciated or nurtured.   That would be such a waste, such a miserable, unjust waste. 

I shouldn't say no one, though.  My Person sees them, and tries to nurture them.  I don't think I'd even really know they were there if it wasn't for him.  But he can't save me.  Can anybody?

Bach, I read your post and will be thinking of you.  I appreciate you articulating what is happening and hope that you find some ease even if it is a single moment. 

Hi Bach!

I understand you are confused and frustrated right now. I'm sorry, those are very difficult feelings.  :hug:

I think you're doing an excellent job listening to what your body is trying to tell you. Whether the pains are from a physical cause or a mental cause is irrelevant to me. Your body is in pain, which I see as it telling you that it desperately needs things to be better.

I have found that doctors and therapists and others do not understand me very well, so they try to help, but it is not very accurate. I do my best to listen to what everyone says, but trust my mind and body most.

If you feel good reconnecting with your mother, than that is what you should do.

Quote from: BachRe-establishing some kind of relationship really seemed so much like the right thing to do after two years(!)

Based on what you have written here, I am 100% confident you are correct.

It sounds like your mother isn't poisoning you right now, but maybe you need some time and effort to flush all the poison out of your system that has been built up for so long.

Middle B's talents sound wonderful. I am only learning to appreciate art myself right now, so I'm sorry I couldn't before. I would like to see some of Middle B's work though! Where can I find it?

We will all do our best to help you Bach, but it is up to you to save yourself with our support. I hope you're feeling better soon.  :hug:

<3 Niko

Oh Bach, I'm so sorry you're unwell. It makes me want to wrap you up in a big hug of safety.

QuoteI've begun to wonder whether I have a genuine physical illness, or whether this is somehow something psychological.

Is it worth speaking to a doctor about it? I don't know if you have already. Maybe there's something that can help you, or it might help to pin down what it is.

Sending much love and care to you and Middle B. :grouphug:

Bach, it sounds to me as if you might be in a big EF. So you feel stuck, and as if nothing will ever change. But it's not true. EFs feel interminable when you're in one, but they do pass.

I try not to make any big decisions when in an EF. Lying on the sofa watching TV is just fine! Not showering is fine, especially if you're just at home. I have a lot of trouble showering or doing other 'normal' self-care when in an EF and I'm not the only one here on OOTS who says that. You're definitely not alone with that. I try not to give advice here. I think it's important for all of us to come to decisions on our own, but today I would say to you: be careful about who you speak or write to in an EF! It's great you reached out here. OOTS is a safe place. I care about you.  :grouphug: :grouphug:

Sending hugs Bach  :hug: :hug: :hug: and care that you will come out of this soon.  It's really tough we know but we are here and we truly do care  :grouphug:

Bach,

I want to say without reservation, questioning or doubt, that Middle B's creativity, energy and enthusiasm are still alive. She is, and you are, not "gone." I support you as you endure this temporary period of life.

rainydiary, Jazzy/Niko, Snowdrop, Blueberry, Kizzie, BeeKeeper, your compassionate replies to my recent post mean a lot to me.  I appreciate and welcome the hugs though I can't quite come up with any myself right now.  Tee, Armadillo, notalone, Hope67, I also thank you deeply and sincerely for your engagement with Middle B.  She appreciates it very much, although now she's telling me to shut up and not talk about her, so I'll respect that.

I did see a doctor this morning about the symptoms I'm having that seem unusual and problematic beyond what I identify as my normal state of chronic illness.  I debated whether to tell him everything that's been going on or whether to just talk about the long-COVID symptoms and the *&^%#%%$^&%* vaccine, and whether to, if not exactly exaggerate, at least sort of emphasise the physical symptoms.  I chose candor, and of course he was quick to diagnose it as depression.  I definitely opened the door for that.  I sort of stood up for the idea that I'm having physical symptoms that are unusual for me regardless of my mental state, but I'm never able to be very bold or pushy with doctors, especially ones I've been seeing for a long time, and so I folded pretty much right away and took a referral to a gastroenterologist.  I suppose I appreciate that he took me just seriously enough to give me that instead of trying to shove me at a psychiatrist.  I had some truly awful experiences in the 90s with psych meds, and the only things that have ever improved my mental health have been addressing various aspects of my physical health, so as much as I sometimes wonder whether I'm shortchanging myself in some way with this attitude, I am not going down that road again. 

I also suppose I might be coming around to the idea that this is all psychological and that there's no way for me to hurry it up and get back to my life.  That's really kind of a problem, though.  Yes, it's okay to lie on the couch and watch TV and stink up to a point, but it's been FIVE WEEKS.  I haven't exercised at all, haven't even climbed stairs inside my house, and I can feel my body deteriorating from the inactivity.  And I can feel the summer slipping away.  The garden is a jungle.  I've only been to the pool once this year, way back at the beginning of June.  It's one of my favourite places in the world, it only exists for three months a year, and I'm missing it.  My life is slipping away.  I have GOT to get off this couch soon.  But I can't.  Not yet, anyway.  What if I can't get off it ever?  What if I really do end up like Aunt Naomi? 

QuoteI think it's important for all of us to come to decisions on our own, but today I would say to you: be careful about who you speak or write to in an EF!

Blueberry, could you please elaborate on that?  If you can, and if it's safe for you.  It's confusing me, and frightening Little B.  If not, I'll do my best with it.  It feels significant and I deeply appreciate your offering it.

I'm sorry Bach, that probably does look very confusing. I'm sorry also for frightening Little B.

I genuinely try not to offer advice on here, but today my advice would be to not contact your M when you're feeling so bad, even though another mbr suggested that further up the thread.

I think you will get off the couch when you're ready to. I also have spent a lot of time on the couch or in bed,  I mean days at a time. But when I'm OK again, I get off them and start living my life again.

Dear Bach,
I think what Blueberry said about the couch makes such sense.  When you're ready to, I feel sure you'll do what you need to do.  But no pressure - none whatsoever - whatever you and Middle B need.

I feel like I'm falling over my words, so apologies if it feels a bit stilted.  I do want to send you and all parts who would value a hug a warm and supportive hug  :grouphug:

Hope  :)

 :hug: :hug: :hug:

I'm really sad that you feel so stuck and down and unable to do what you want. The couch phase, it will pass, because you want it to.

I find the more I reject a difficult symptom, the worse it is and the longer it lasts.

Tell Middle B we understand not wanting anyone to talk about her. I feel the same way all the time.

It really does sound like increased communication with your mom has been really harmful to you. You experimented and your brain and body are telling you "no. Not yet. Not even this." You're right that it *should* be ok, but it isn't.   :grouphug: I relate 100%.

I  washed my hair a couple of nights ago and have been managing to do a few little things off the couch each day for the past three or so. I'm sick of lying on the couch and being ill but I know I'm still not up to much in the way of real life and I also know that I will have to be very patient and careful about continuing to rest and rebuild my body rather than jumping on the very small signs of recovery that I am seeing and trying to force that process to go more quickly. I had to consciously and deliberately state to myself that I recognise that I am not ready to get up yet, and then give myself permission not to.  I am frustrated and angry and scared and sad and my brother is leaving on Friday.

My mother is not currently a problem. I recognised and corrected a behaviour I had taken up recently that reflected my mother's negative influence, and that was a bit of a breakthrough. I'm happy to leave her be for the moment but if she texts me I will reply. I'm not scared of her, and that's what I wanted out of resuming contact with her. So I'll deal with her when I have to deal with her, and bloody well deal with myself the rest of the time.

I was a little deranged this weekend. Bad behaviour with food yesterday and with marijuana today, but I pulled the eating back under control right away, and tomorrow will do the same with the weed. And the relentless grind of self-improvement continues.

Hugs to Blueberry, Hope and Armee for the recent replies and to all my other friends here who whether speaking or not support me like an invisible net that catches me gently before I fall all the way down to the bottom. Thank you :grouphug:

I'm glad you're seeing signs of recovery, Bach. I've been concerned about you. I'm also glad you're taking things gently, and listening to what you need. You'll get there. :grouphug:

Quote from: Bach on July 19, 2021, 03:20:47 AM

My mother is not currently a problem. I recognised and corrected a behaviour I had taken up recently that reflected my mother's negative influence, and that was a bit of a breakthrough. I'm happy to leave her be for the moment but if she texts me I will reply. I'm not scared of her, and that's what I wanted out of resuming contact with her.

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

I'm so happy that you are slowly taking some steps to resume life as you want it to be, but also recognizing that slow is the way to go.  :hug:

Dear Bach,
I'm glad to read your update on how you are.  Taking things gently and listening to what you need sounds good.   :hug:
Hope  :)

 :hug:

Quote from: Armee on July 19, 2021, 05:44:55 AM

Quote from: Bach on July 19, 2021, 03:20:47 AM

My mother is not currently a problem. I recognised and corrected a behaviour I had taken up recently that reflected my mother's negative influence, and that was a bit of a breakthrough. I'm happy to leave her be for the moment but if she texts me I will reply. I'm not scared of her, and that's what I wanted out of resuming contact with her.

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

I'm so happy that you are slowly taking some steps to resume life as you want it to be, but also recognizing that slow is the way to go.  :hug:

Quote from: sanmagic7 on August 09, 2021, 11:11:04 PM
:hug:

Quote from: Hope67 on August 04, 2021, 12:48:28 PM
Dear Bach,
I'm glad to read your update on how you are.  Taking things gently and listening to what you need sounds good.   :hug:
Hope  :)

Quote from: Snowdrop on July 19, 2021, 05:34:32 AM
I'm glad you're seeing signs of recovery, Bach. I've been concerned about you. I'm also glad you're taking things gently, and listening to what you need. You'll get there. :grouphug:

:heythere:

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :grouphug:

 :wave: :hug:

I can’t speak, can’t share, can’t do anything.  I’m stuck inside myself.  I hate this.

You reached out here :thumbup:

Sending a gentle hug if that feels good atm. I care about you.

We see you. You're still here. You exist even when you are stuck.

I am a sad little smelly little girl with a messy room who startles at everything because nothing is safe and I am in constant fear of where is the next danger I am small and everything is grey and I always have to hurry to keep up why why why can't they slow down why can't they slow down, I'm just a little girl!

we are surrounding that little girl, embracing her with care and concern, bach.  as i've often been told here, this, too, shall pass.  hang tough, ok?  we're hangin' right beside you. :grouphug:

NB:  I started this as a reply to the thread linked below.  It got too sloppy and rambly to post on someone else’s thread, and I haven’t in any way got the wherewithal to clean it up and make it a considerate reply in a group discussion, so I’m posting it here because it is on my mind and is relevant to the topic.

https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13556.0


I’ve thought about this a lot.  I went for a number of years having no contact with my mother except for once a year at Thanksgiving at my brother’s house.  Thanksgiving used to be the holiday that my brother and I would spend together, and my mother and stepfather used to take a road trip to spend Thanksgiving with one of the stepsons.  However, a few years ago, my mother and stepfather decided they were too old for the road trip and that they would henceforth be attending at my brother’s.  During those years, Thanksgiving became very fraught to me.  I didn’t want to see her, but I didn’t want to miss Thanksgiving with my brother’s family. I resented the * out of her impinging on what I thought of mine and my brother’s holiday.  During the lead-up to those Thanksgivings I often felt that I wished she would die so that I could just be done with her and never have to deal with her again.  I didn’t feel guilty for wishing she would die.  At the time, I thought that there was no reason for me to want her to stay in the world.

There was never any overt drama on those Thanksgivings, but being in her presence always had certain effects on me that I didn’t understand or recognise because although I had been working for many years to understand my experience growing up, I had not yet discovered the concept of CPTSD.  Each year was a tiny bit easier in terms of my standing up for myself and not letting her suck me in to her weird grasping life-sucking need for supply.  There was that very cold one holiday on which after dinner my mother and stepfather didn’t want to walk the few blocks to get to where they were staying because it was late and it was windy, but they were having difficulty getting a cab.  After a very subtle family politics dance in my brother’s foyer, I understood that My Person and I were expected to offer them a ride. I was unwilling to do that for reasons I didn’t totally understand at the time that I’m only slightly more clear on now, but which I knew down to my bones were important and valid and not just me being difficult or mean.  I remember it being so obvious that we were expected to offer that My Person asked me discreetly out of the corner of his mouth if I was going to, and I just as discreetly came back with some form of uh-uh, no way, not on my life.  I also remember standing my ground on that even though I felt that maybe even My Person thought I was being unreasonable. 

That felt like a real step forward, but it caused me to relax my guard at Thanksgiving the following year.  I got sucked into a sentimental conversation with her and started thinking maybe I wanted to try to have some kind of a relationship with her again.  I thought about that a lot and had many discussions with my therapist, My Person, and my Ladybird (wise and beloved overseas friend I met in an eating disorder support group who I have been chatting with in instant messages and visiting when I can since the mid-aughts) about what my motivations were for feeling I wanted that, whether it was a good idea, what would I be expecting or hoping to get out of it, what were the benefits, risks, etc.  After taking literally a two years to decide that I wanted to, I turned to figuring out how to initiate and conduct it.  Originally, I’d been expecting that I’d see her at Thanksgiving as usual, but my stepfather who was in his 90s and had mostly been in excellent health and full mental faculties up to then had fallen ill earlier in the year.  He’d been deteriorating for a while, and by Thanksgiving he was unable to travel.  At first my mother suggested that we all have Thanksgiving at her house, and because she actually wrote to me herself to invite us, I gave it careful consideration.  Ultimately I decided that there was ABSOLUTELY NO (expletive deleted) WAY I was up for that, but that my turning down the invitation would be a good opening to suggest that we email each other a bit. 

We started a very tentative and intermittent email correspondence.  Then, this past May, my stepfather died and I went to his memorial at her house as I have written about here previously.  Since then, I have been carrying on a text message conversation with her a few times a week, and have been to see her once.  Dealing with her is difficult, frustrating, triggering and exhausting, but I feel that it is very important.  I feel that I need to deal with her to progress in my therapy, to understand more about and hopefully start to unlearn the deeply programmed subconscious responses I have that contribute so much to my life’s suffering.  I also feel that I need to deal with her so that I can fully understand and believe that none of it was my fault.  None of it was because of any inherent lack of worth in me, and certainly none of it was because I didn’t try hard enough.  And ultimately I need to do it so that when she dies I will be able to experience my relief for the end of her without complications from guilt, shame or regret, and accept and grieve healthily for the fact that I will never truly know how it feels to have a loving mother instead of ripping myself apart over how asdkdfl;hg’d up my life has been.  I fear that if I can’t do that, my mother’s eventual death with throw me into a state of prolonged triggered dysfunction that will make my struggles of this past summer look like a day at the beach. 

(Ah yes, the blessed and yet triggering beach.  Another story for another day).

Bach, I appreciated reading this reflection as so much of what you wrote touched parts of my heart and mind and body that said "Bach would understand me."  There are so many parts of us that have reasons and needs that seem to defy words because they are deep. 

I am also entering a place in my life where I see it is important to have a relationship with my parents on my terms and yet it is so difficult because all the deep memories I don't realize I am holding are in my body. 

The part where you described the implicit communication that you provide a ride for your parents and how your reaction was perceived as unreasonable stood out to me.  I am currently trying to sort out why we are encouraged by others to stand our ground and speak our truth when the reality of doing that is often poorly received and results in additional suffering. 

Thank you for sharing all of this.  All changes bring about shifts and new realities to navigate.  I am walking this journey with you. 

 bach,  i appreciate your strength and self-realizations re: this relationship you are establishing.  i give you so much credit for knowing what's right for you and going ahead with it.  keep up the good work!  :yes: 

reconciling with our past can be troublesome at best.  making the decision to do so, then moving forward on that decision are 2 huge steps.  you're doing them.  love and hugs :hug:

Hello Bach,

Your story about refusing to "give" the ride to both your M and stepfather one Thanksgiving brought me back to the first time I refused to go to my F's on Thanksgiving. I remember doing it over the phone, and back then, I heard nothing for about 20 seconds. They've both since died, but that one act set me on a path of self-reconciliation.

It takes courage to refuse, confront, change strategies, tactics, set boundaries and stay the course. I loved this sentence you wrote:

QuoteI feel that it is very important.  I feel that I need to deal with her to progress in my therapy, to understand more about and hopefully start to unlearn the deeply programmed subconscious responses I have that contribute so much to my life's suffering.

:applause:

Awareness is the first step to unlearning, and then, (I've seen) a bit of self-compassion can make those lessons easier. A total shocker for me! Who knows? There might be something in it for you too. 

Bach,

I really appreciate your thoughts that you shared on this here and drawing my attention to the thread you linked to.

This especially stood out to me:

QuoteAnd ultimately I need to do it so that when she dies I will be able to experience my relief for the end of her without complications from guilt, shame or regret, and accept and grieve healthily for the fact that I will never truly know how it feels to have a loving mother instead of ripping myself apart

I found all the struggles I went through trying with my mom before she passed to have provided clarity that despite everything I did and tried she never could be a mom or any number of other descriptors. I walked away with the peace knowing I had tried. Nothing I did changed who she is. I also resent putting so much effort and angst into trying, only to be treated like garbage till the very end. But it proved to me it was her, not me.

So I did find it helpful, but at the same time, proceed with caution Bach and give yourself as much space as you need to keep from being badly hurt again by your M.  :hug:

Rainydiary, San, Beekeeper and Armee, I very much appreciate your reading and responding.  A lot of fear and threat surrounds writing about this stuff.  I feel that it is good for me, but it also produces difficult emotional backlashes.  It is so reassuring to be heard and understood, and acknowledged with so much compassion.  Thank you, friends  :grouphug:

I have been struggling painfully with anxiety for the past several days.  There are many things complicating my emotional landscape.  One of my closest friends is ill and needs risky surgery, which was scheduled for a few weeks ago but had to be put off, and is now planned for next Thursday.  Another is dealing with a number of family crises on top of her own ongoing chronic illness.  My brother and his family finally left for Australia.  They had left the area at the end of July but been unable to go to Australia because of rules regarding Covid, but until last weekend they were at least still only one timezone away.  I didn't expect their departure from this hemisphere to hit me so hard.  I guess that even though I knew perfectly well they were going to go sooner or later, some part of me was still hoping that somehow they wouldn't.  On top of all that, the weather has been crazy, with severe flooding in my area in the wake of Hurricane Ida.  Crazy weather frightens me and always has.  I don't remember where I heard about environmental issues and global warming way back in the 70s when I was a young child, but it impressed me as a grave and imminent threat, and I've been anxious about it ever since.  At times when other difficult things have been going on in my life, my environmental anxiety has risen to the level of debilitating paranoia.  For the past few days I've been dancing on the edge of falling into that, but so far I have remained rational despite having to hear all about the flooding, deaths, record rainfall, etc., from My Person.  He doesn't try to talk about it with me very much because he knows it makes me anxious, but he reads all the news and mentions it to me from time to time, and gets on the phone with his friends and talks about it, and it's hard to tune him out because he's loud and our house isn't very big.  I do my best to tolerate it because, although not traumatised the way I am, he too is a human being who has certain anxieties and needs to express himself, but sometimes I just want to scream.  Or worse.  I'm actually really pretty impressed with myself because despite my extreme angst and discomfort, I have done very little self-destructive acting out.  Go me.

I wanted to write some stuff today about anger but it's too complicated and I don't have the energy right now. 

My regards and love to my all friends and fellow strugglers here.

Bach, I've also felt the heaviness of the weather and climate.  I hope that you remain as well as you can as Ida makes it way through.  I feel incredibly anxious about it as well and want to do my part....but my part feels so insignificant. 

 :grouphug:

Quote from: Bach on September 03, 2021, 04:39:04 PM
I'm actually really pretty impressed with myself because despite my extreme angst and discomfort, I have done very little self-destructive acting out.  Go me.

I am really pretty impressed with you, too, Bach. You sound...SOLID. I'm not sure about you but when CPTSD stuff gets to me i feel ephermal like I'm just going to float away. SOLID is the opposite of that. I feel like you are HERE. Good job.

I can also tell what a beautiful human you are because much of what is weighing on you are things that affect people you love and not YOU.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother in terms of geography. That's a big loss and adjustment. 💛

i'm with you on having to contain my anxiety about the climate.  it's horrible - just want to acknowledge that. :stars: 

keep taking care of you, ok?  unfortunately, it's difficult to avoid the news completely.  i check in every day, but pretty much can only take a few minutes of it.  i think we can only move forward in our own lives, do what we can and know that we're doing our best not to contribute to what's happening.  sending love and a hug filled with comfort and care. :hug:

I took a nice little shot at my mother the other day.  She was going on yet again about how mean (stepbrothers) are. In a discussion of my mother's insistence that the anger of (stepbrothers) is wildly unreasonable, I managed to get in a mild statement of my feeling that (stepfather) bears a lot of the responsibility for never trying to work out his relationship with his children and that it can't all be blamed on what the vfjdbsl ex-wife did 50 years ago.  Then when she defended (stepfather) by saying that his ex-wife took the kids to live in another country to get revenge on him, I said "It's definitely not appropriate to weaponise children in a divorce. I know a lot of people do it and from my perspective I judge them all."  That was good because it wasn't personal or accusatory, and we weren't talking about MY past.  She knew what I was saying, though, of course.  She offered an insincere apology with a tacked-on tidy little bit of history-revision that made the apology totally meaningless, then changed the subject.  That was okay, good, even, because I was only looking to say it, not to get an apology or engage her on it.  The best part was that after I said it, I started to type another message passive-aggressively saying something even more sneakily pointed, but then I realised that would be laying it on too thick and I didn't do it.  So satisfying to jab her and then deny her the opportunity to feel like a victim!

Bach,  :applause: :applause: :applause:

This hits the spot.

Quote"It's definitely not appropriate to weaponise children in a divorce. I know a lot of people do it and from my perspective I judge them all."

I admire your courage and articulation.

QuoteI started to type another message passive-aggressively saying something even more sneakily pointed, but then I realised that would be laying it on too thick and I didn't do it.

Choosing a direct message is the way to go. Glad you passed the opportunity to be passive-aggressive.

Good job speaking up to your mom. It won't change her, but it will change you.  :grouphug:

i agree with both bee and armee.  hits the spot, and that kind of spot can be life-changing!   :thumbup:  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:

Hi Bach,
I admire what you did, in communicating what you wanted to your M. 

I also wanted to send a hug from one of my younger parts, who related to something that you wrote previously about the little girl - my younger self/part related very much, and hoped to offer a safe hug, if that's ok  :hug:

Hope  :)

Lately I wish that I could have therapy every single !@#$%^& day.  But that would probably be too much anyway  :bawl: :blink:  :fallingbricks:

Bach, what you say resonates.  I have spaces where I feel like I figure a lot out and feel heard and seen and want them all the time.  But they seem the exception. 

I agree Bach and that is especially true when I am more dissociated. When things feel ok, twice a week would be ok.

Hugs for whatever you are struggling with this week.  :grouphug:

Why am I such a self-destructive @#$%^& sometimes?  I make me tired.  I'm angry at myself right now. The other day I noticed that when I get angry I start feeling sick to my stomach.  My stomach starts to roll and alarm bells ring and I become afraid of everything, and there is a physical feeling, a sweeping feeling of oncoming overwhelm.  Like how it would feel being in the ocean when the tide rolls in. 

I'm angry at a lot of things right now, actually, and perhaps I am so angry at myself because it's so much safer than being angry at anything else.  Being angry at myself is more like being in the ocean as a kid when the tide is too far out to be fun or even cooling on that day that is too hot and bright and boring and I have to entertain myself for hours by myself while Mom listens to her classical radio station and works on her tan.  That's a sickening horrible feeling too, but it's easy to subdue into something that keeps me down and doesn't threaten me.  That's the Mom/B dynamic, isn't it?  The one that governs my life.  She wants to keep me down and I want her to not threaten me.  So this must be why I react to anger at what is outside me (best friend, brother, mother, age, death) by lying around being depressed until I do something self-destructive and then get angry at myself.  In the past, I have responded to getting angry at myself by doing "healthy" things to counteract the bad feelings of doing self-destructive things, but then usually overdone the "healthy" things (exercise, chores, work, creative expression) until I was exhausted and overwhelmed.  Now with my health issues, I cannot do that.  I have long wanted to find healthier ways to process anger, and now it's becoming necessary if I ever want to have any kind of life again.

My Person and I are supposed to go visit that woman next week.  I don't know what to call her.  I don't want to call her Mom.  I don't want to call her "my mother", because I don't want to claim her, and I don't want to call her "the mother" because "the" feels like it gives her too much credit.  And I don't know whether I want to see her or not.  I do but I don't.  It's as simple and as complicated as that.  I need to figure it out, but I don't need to do that today.  I'm trying to learn how to not shy away from these thoughts and feelings and especially not writing about them, but also not to plunge too deeply headlong into them and get overwhelmed.  Yesterday in my notes I wrote "Anger:  The little girls say 'We understand that we have to but that's enough for now, a break please?'  And I said 'Yes, of course, little girls, thank you for telling me what you need.'"  They have been very present on and off lately as I've spent my days paralysed and doing almost nothing, alternating between waves of emotional flashback and dissociation.

Bach I understand a little why its so hard to find the write word. That was hard for me too, because she never was my mom or the mom.

I understand why you are tiptoeing back into a relationship with her. And also I see how your brain and body are kind of screaming and whispering "no!"

You don't have to do this. You don't have to do it now if it is less healthy for you.

When I felt I had to interact with mine, my T made sure I knew the consequences for myself and accepted the price as well understood i was making a choice.

Bach,

I also would love to have therapy every day!  I wish my therapist would just move in next door and let me come over for coffee EVERY day.

Bach,

What Papa Coco said.  :yes:

What you said:

Quote"Anger:  The little girls say 'We understand that we have to but that's enough for now, a break please?'  And I said 'Yes, of course, little girls, thank you for telling me what you need.'"  They have been very present on and off lately

I appreciate this so much! First, the presence, the communication and the interaction. You're ahead of me and that helps.

Acknowledging the thoughts, and then saying you'll care for them by what they are asking.  The last part, being paralyzed, doing little and alternating between states seems to be part of the terrain, at least for me. I've been wondering about that effect for a while, and now see it as a direct consequence of that communication and that promise.

I was spared from having to decide about visiting TBW* next week, because My Person is going to be too busy with work to go with me.  I texted her telling her that but haven't gotten a response yet.  I'll have to deal with that when it comes.  Ugh.

Friends, I always read and appreciate your responses, but recently I have not had the bandwidth to acknowledge and reply to each individually.  I'm having extreme problems interacting with other humans lately even in very limited capacities, so I hope that you will all understand that my thoughts and feelings for all of you are here even though right now I can't express them.  I try to say something or drop hugs when I can but it's all so hard.  So much harder than it seems like it should be. 

*TBW stands for "That bloody woman", which is how I've been referring to her for the past few days.  I still don't want to describe her with the M-word, so I figured why not. 

Bach, I appreciate you sharing where you are at and the type of energy you have for engagement right now.   :hug:

 :hug:

I am learning a lot from you, Bach, even if you aren't able to say much.

I like your new name for her. It suits her very much.

Hi Bach,
I really think the description of TBW is apt.  I borrowed it for a while to apply it to someone in my own life, and it felt apt there as well.  Seems like there's a lot of them around.  TBW's.

I wanted to say that I appreciate you and I'm sending you a hug of support and caring  :hug:
Hope  :)

I'm wondering if I'm okay after stumbling into a text conversation about the past tonight with TBW. I feel mostly good about it because although I didn't get to say much of what I want to say, I said a thing or two and laid groundwork for saying more in the future. But I ended weak and am now feeling a little overwhelmed by the vastness. I have so much work to do but I must do it carefully and sensibly, not get anxious and impatient and try to pile through it, get it all out, get it said, and end up making myself sick instead of feeling relief. I think what I mean by "ended weak" is that my last message had too many words. Not that I said anything bad or wrong or unfair or regrettable, but I went just a touch past carefully considered. If I had stopped a few words sooner I would not have a queasy stomach or be lying here still not asleep even after meditation and medication. I suppose I will have to simply be present with the discomfort, observe it and tolerate it until it diffuses enough to let me go, and try to see the line more clearly next time.

Oh Bach. I hear so much self doubt and honestly fear.  :hug:

And it reminds me of how carefully I had to tread in my own conversations with my own m word.

Remember you have a right to exist, as you. And normal healthy relationships don't require this level of tiptoeing to be able to state your thoughts and needs. Bach gets to exist and all the parts of Bach.

I also want to honor the strength you showed in engaging and putting some of your words out there.

I hope the cost of that interaction is bearable and that you give yourself lots of kindness and understanding of what a difficult line you are walking.

:grouphug:

Bach, I appreciate what you said about laying the groundwork.  Something that is difficult for me is non-closure.  I feel a lot of feelings about things being a process when there are some things I just want to be over and done with.  I hope that you find a way that feels as supportive and right for you as possible. 

Armee and rainy, thank you for your responses.  They are, as always, appreciated, read carefully and taken in  :hug:

I still don't know whether I'm okay or not.  The other night I eventually fell asleep, and then yesterday was pretty good.  I was very, very fatigued, but it was the first day in a long time that I haven't felt depressed.  I accomplished a few minor things and my head was pretty comfortable for most of the day.  Today, though, I'm feeling horribly unwell mentally, in complete disarray, feeling everything all at once and wishing for yesterday's quiet mind with the desperation that I once would have desired ecstasy.  There is so much I need to say to TBW, and I need to say it the right way, not because I don't have a right to exist or a right to my feelings but because I need for the saying or the not saying of things to make me more well, and not to backfire and make me sick.

I am angry and sad because my life was over before it had even begun.  I was born to be lonely and unwanted, crying out with need and pain, struggling to survive in a world where even the person responsible for my being here wanted me to not exist.  Every opportunity I’ve ever had blown because I could not emotionally regulate.  50+ years of my life gone by before I even understood what that meant.  Name it and shame it.  I have so far to go, and not enough time, energy or health to get there.  Why, why, WHY?

I want to tell TBW all the things.  Need to.  But why?  She won’t accept them.  She doesn’t remember it like that.  She would NEVER have left me alone sick when I was that young!  As far as she’s concerned, major formative experiences of my life never even happened.  I guess she never (trigger in white) broke my leg or suffocated me either. .  It wasn’t about me.  She doesn’t want me to think that I was unlovable.  It was simply that I needed something she was unable to give me when I needed it.  So she says.  I need to speak my truth, need to speak to TO HER, not angrily, not spitefully, not in a hurtful way.  But I need to tell her that while she doesn’t remember me at all, I remember her entirely too well.

Flashback storm

I am here with you during this time.

 :hug:

This is one of those big hugs, if you want it, where you get to stay in it as long as you need.

Take care of Bach, ok? This is really hard but you're going to come out.

i'm here with you, too, bach.  such a lot to be struggling with.  you're not alone.  much love and a caring hug filled with comfort and a cloud to rest on and sink into when needed.  :hug: :cloud9:

But my body doesn't WANT to be scanned!

still here.  if it helps, something i've done in the past (like when i had to leave mexico), i imagined my friends here on the forum standing with me, moving with me for that terrible trip back across the border for good.  it was a terrifying time, but having everyone there kept me from losing my mind.  we're with you, my dear.  love and hugs :grouphug:

 :grouphug:

Bach.  :hug:

Agree with San. We're here. Keeping speaking what you can get out.

The other day I had a conversation with my mother about anger.  It was a very helpful conversation in furthering my pursuit of eventually speaking all of my truths to her, and later reflection on it provided me with some ideas with how to go where I need to go with it next.  I've been wanting to either write Ladybird about that or make some kind of a post about here so that I could remember what I need to address next to prepare both of us for the truth bombs that soon will need to be dropped, but so far I can't.  Maybe that's okay. 

I think I've done a good job so far of handling that bloody woman in ways that are getting me closer to my ultimate goal, which is to be able to be relieved when she dies instead of having it throw me into a world of emotional turmoil and flashback storms that will make this past summer look like a Bob Ross painting.  I might actually not survive that if it happened.  There's a part of me that doesn't even know I exist except as a reflection of her.

Today I told my therapist about the conversation (interesting slip, at first I typed "psychiatrist" instead of "therapist" even though except for a six-month check in and klonopin scrip I haven't had one of those in many years).  Talking to my therapist about it was so difficult that I had to distract myself by chopping hair for the compost.  Not hair on my head.  Balls of hair out of a bag that I saved up during the time that our garage had to be rebuilt and we couldn't have our compost heap.  I had learned shortly before that happened that you can compost hair if you chop it up so it can break down, and I was utterly tickled by the idea of contributing an actual part of myself to the dirt that would grow my beautiful vegetables.  I understand that saving up hair for a year and then having to make my way little by little through what turns out to be a much bigger bag than I thought of balls of hair that are much more work than I thought they'd be to chop up instead of shrugging my shoulders and throwing it away is a little crazy.  I have no idea why I wanted to share that here today.  I've never told anyone about it before, not even Ladybird or My Person.  Or my therapist, even though it seems that my need for distraction during particularly difficult sessions might be what will end up getting me through that bag.  I miss going to my therapist in person, but sometimes I wonder if I'd actually be able to tolerate some of this deep work I've been doing on my anger if I had to do it in the sight of another person. 

Hello Bach,

I am struck by two things; the bag of hair and the last sentence. Yes, I read the second paragraph but unable to offer anything now.

It's very hard to do therapy via streaming media. I miss that presence, the small subtle cues, the psychic energy, the warmth. Sharing deep work is tough, I understand your doubts with doing it in sight of another person. I did a little today, not anger, but shame. Point is, the closer it comes to the really sensitive stuff, the harder it is to share. It's a risk and involves trust, not something that's in great abundance. But when you are ready, you may give yourself permission.

The hair! Here I am throwing mine all away, when I could be cutting it up. I'm impressed with your commitment to compost, I'm a great believer. And it does sound like a big, kind of tedious thing. If you could develop an auto-pilot method maybe that's better, I don't know. But if you've done this for a year, it seems like a good idea to follow through.

I'm impressed with your courage to speak your truths to the people that need to hear it.

bach, you continue to make progress with all this.  thank you for sharing about your hair with us.  i think, altho it's tedious, the sentiment behind having bits of yourself making the earth more viable for your vegetables brings a smile to my heart.  keep up the good work.  love and hugs :hug:

Bach, I think it's great that you have been able to speak to tbw about anger.  I think you are brave.  I hope you don't mind my saying that. 
Hope  :)

That really is such a beautiful concept of composting with hair. Thank you for sharing that with us.

You're doing amazing work. It is very very difficult what you are doing and I admire you so much for it. I wasn't able to do it with my M. I was much too scared and unsure of myself to.

I just sent my mother a letter telling her my thoughts about our last conversation.  I managed to write it this morning in one sitting, only left it alone for a few hours before making a couple of minor changes and hitting send without running it past anyone or posting it here to see how it felt in public, or even giving myself another cool-down-and-revisit before calling it ready to go.  Although I wouldn’t normally proceed with something like this without much more deliberation, I knew this was the right thing to do because this afternoon after I wrote it and went out to get my hyperbaric treatment, I kept thinking that I had sent it already, and feeling good about that, then remembering that I hadn’t and thinking that I really must.  Now, having sent it, I still feel good about it, no queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach, no second-guessing.  I guess I’m getting better at narcissist-wrangling.  I’m glad I got such good thorough training for that over the past 15 years by taking on pretty much all the responsibility for keeping my relationship with Other from imploding. 

I’m too exhausted and brain-fried to engage with anyone here today, but I love you all so much and appreciate you for being an inestimable resource for helping me get through this.   :umbrella:

Congrats on your risk taking and courage to send without a "final approval" from anyone. Yeah you! I like it. It definitely speaks to your new lifestyle of

Quotenarcissist-wrangling.

My mom still thinks it was all my fault.  Bach was talking to her about being angry and stuff and then my mom wrote a letter to her therapist telling her therapist all about how bad a kid Bach was except she wasn't talking about Bach, she was talking about me :pissed: and she was WRONG except that she wasn't wrong because I guess I did those things?  But she said it was my fault.  Anyway, my mom sent Bach the letter and I starting getting mad and scared and upset but then Bach wrote her a letter back telling her why I did or why it wasn't my fault or something, I don't know, but it was really good to have Bach say that it wasn't my fault and explain why and Bach was right!  But then Bach didn't send that letter and wrote a different letter that said they could talk about it another time because she said it would be better to be nice now and tell mom that stuff later.  I guess I trust her.  But I'm mad because it's so unfair.  So I drew a picture of my foot stomping on my mom.  That was fun but it made me feel weird and scared and I had to stop.  Bach said it's okay but I don't know.  I'm really tired now and I want to go to sleep.

Oh I'm so sorry that all these things are going on. It would all make me really mad too. Really really mad. And upset and scared. Good for you drawing a picture of your foot stomping on your mom! I agree with Bach, that it's OK.

If it's not too much for you or too difficult, then please know I'm supporting you. I hope you can feel a bit safer now and get lots of sleep.

i don't doubt the intensity of the feeling that went along with the stomping simply got overwhelming, so i'm glad you stopped when you did.  i had a similar experience lately with my icky T, and i, too, had to stop.  it made me realize, tho, the amount of rage i had toward her.  it was eye-opening.

i don't believe for a minute you were bad, bach.  maybe you did things that your M didn't like, but that doesn't necessarily make you bad.  people put those kinds of labels on us for their own benefit.  that way it's easier for them to justify what they do to us. 

sending you love and a hug filled with support for all you're going thru.  take your time - it's a lot to process :hug:

Thank you very much, Blueberry and san for supporting Middle B.  That encourages her willingness to speak, which is good for me/us. 

The thing that confuses and distresses Middle B so much is that most of the things that bloody woman says are either partially true, or true but without context, or are wild misinterpretations of truth.  I could give examples of this but it would wind me up too much, and poor Middle B needs some rest.

In the letters, she ignored my early development entirely and referenced only things that occurred during my middle childhood (Middle B!).  She said "I may have been a bad parent but she had serious problems that most parents could not have handled well. (Bach), as to be expected, doesn't admit that this was at least partly, two sided".  Here is the rebuttal that I didn't send:

QuoteI don't admit that it was two-sided? I was a CHILD. A very young and neglected CHILD. My problems started when I was too young to do anything but react to how I was treated, and how I was treated was mostly with neglect, but also often with hostility which was indeed at times demonstrated physically. I acknowledge that I was not outright beaten, but that is far from the only way that a full-grown, powerful adult can physically demonstrate hostility. And there was indeed emotional abuse. I was yelled at, criticised, punished for things I didn't understand and blamed for things I didn't do. I was given no guidance or nurturance. I was constantly under threat of being suffocated (I have distinct memories of this), or of being "put in a box and sent back to wherever I came from". You often screamed at me "What is WRONG with you?", when I was a toddler who the main thing WRONG with was that I had a father who was hardly ever there, and yelled and threw things when he was, and a mother who deeply resented me when she wasn't completely failing to notice that the things that were happening around me affected me. You told me yourself that you resented me when I was a baby because I had colic. By "two-sided" should I be accepting responsibility for not being in perfect digestive health as an infant? From the beginning of my life, your unhappy life with my father was taken out on me, perhaps not always directly, but perpetually in the form of complete and total disregard for the needs of a very young, very frightened child, way before I was old enough for any of it to be two-sided. My behavioural issues were established by the terrifying environment in which I lived and was a hapless and mostly disregarded bystander. I was not a difficult child because I wanted to be. I was a difficult child because I was traumatised by being in a violent household with parents who seldom showed me any care or concern at all and had no apparent interest at all in actually raising me. Just because no one gets hit doesn't mean that dramatic screaming fights don't traumatise children, especially when those fights take place right in front of the children who are then ignored or treated as burdensome when they react with fear and distress to what they are witnessing. Other things you have told me yourself over the years are that you got pregnant with me accidentally, that my father was upset about the pregnancy and didn't want me, that by the time I was born your marriage with my father was a complete disaster. Most recently, you said that you and my father were both selfish and caught up in your own dramas, and apologised for that casually as if it was just some small thing that hurt my feelings rather than a very big thing indeed that completely undermined my healthy development. My early childhood was so full of neglect and trauma that by the time I became the wild uncontrollable child you complain about, I was in a constant state of confusion, fear and hypervigilance and had absolutely no clue how to react to anything. It's not like as soon as you moved in with (stepfather) I suddenly became a normal healthy child who had been taught and cared for and nurtured, and was capable of consciously deciding to be a good girl and decided instead to be a nightmare. While I understand that creating a monster was not your intent, none of what made me wild and uncontrollable was inherent in me at birth or was the product of any conscious choice on my side. So, you're right. I do not admit that it was two-sided. Because it wasn't.

I will tell her all of this eventually.  Meanwhile, I'm going to try to encourage Middle B to draw more.  She wants to but is afraid.  I think that might actually be my fault. 

It's a beautiful letter full of truth and fairness, Bach. I hope it does help Middle B to know that you see her and what happened to her and that you know it wasn't her fault, and I hope it brings her comfort to know it is written and could be sent if the time is right.

I'm new here, bach, so you don't know me. But I hope it's OK to say that your words in the un-sent letter to your M were so powerful and inspiring to me, full of the unshakeable, undeniable truth that you (like any small child) are never responsible for the neglect and abuse endured at the hands of the adults in charge.   As you express so well, it's absolutely not two-sided when one side is an infant, a toddler, or even (in my opinion) a teenager.  (As the mother of a teen, I still believe it's MY job - not my daughter's - to be the one taking the lead in modeling the compassion and respect that I hope to see in her.)  Thank you for sharing your courageous truth here. It helped me to read it.

Do those crying storms I keep wanting to have but can't come from Middle B?

Are all these tears that clog me up and strain against but cannot break the barriers that hold them back Middle B's?

Hi Bach,

I read your unsent letter and I think it makes perfect sense. You are right in that no child should ever be blamed for their behaviour after living through a situation like that and it's not ok for your M to be "unaware" of her part in it and to try to make you responsible (again!!). It sounds like one of those "yeah, but" apologies which aren't really an apology.

I wholly relate to being in a situation with someone like that and the frustration it brings up. I tried to bring my mom to therapy once to tell her how I felt, and she didn't hear a word of it, only that I was telling her she was a bad person. Sending you some support and a hug for middle b if that's ok  :hug:

dolly

As someone who has tears to cry but never feels them and never sheds them, and when a tear trickles to my eyelash it isn't mine and I'm not crying, all I can say is: I don't know but i hope one day Bach and Middle B are free to cry when they want to.

 :yeahthat:

i totally agree our childhood experiences are not two-sided.  imbalance of power, for one. lack of life experience for another. brains and minds aren't grown enough to understand about relationship dynamics, personal boundaries, or anything about individual freedoms and world perspectives.  none of it was our fault - we were manipulated and groomed to be what others wanted us to be for their own advantage, to make their own lives easier at the expense of our well-being.

i believe the tears will come when both of you are ready, when both of you feel safe enough to allow their escape.  for now, the idea that you're questioning seems to say you are on a positive, healthy track.  love and hugs :hug:

I should have sent that letter when I had the chance. Instead I toned it way, way down, then backed down entirely when she played the recent widow card. Now I want to go after her. I want to tell her the whole story. Recent widow be blanked. I should have compassion for her when she has never had the least tiny little bit of it for me? What I wrote in that letter was only the beginning of that story, why it wasn't "two-sided" and how I became such a "wild, uncontrollable child". The problem, of course, is that if I go after her I have to be prepared for the reaction. I don't really want to have to spend the energy to stand up for myself against her but I've begun to suspect it might be the only way to break myself out of the disastrous emotional flashback I've been in for the past month.

bach, i think, my opinion only, that if sending such a letter is going to help you get to a healthier place, if it's in your best interest, then do what you need to do.  i'm concerned about fallout from it, tho.  weigh possible outcomes, if that helps to make up your mind, as to which course will cost you less in energy and well-being, ok?  i just want what's best for you, always.  love and hugs, my dear. :hug:

Just you and your therapist can even come close to figuring out if a letter, more direct and complete, will help or hurt you and Middle B. You certainly won't get understanding, compassion, apologies, or change from that woman. But perhaps standing up to her will help you and Middle B feel heard by yourself and to feel stronger in your right to be free of her.

I used to pay the price for days just silently driving my mom to her appointments. Just seeing her eyes was all it took, or even being in her house alone without her. Very very bad dissociation for days. Shame. Self hatred. Self harm. Loss of awareness to the point of cooking outside of awareness and risking house fires.

I've seen how interactions with that woman have also had very very serious backdraft for you, and I would just want out of deep care for you to know that you have the right to proceed with caution and self care. To know what the cost may be. And to know that just walking away from her is also acceptable. Your truth is truth whether you spell it out for that woman or whether you just spell it out for you and Middle B. We all see your truth and it is true.

Armee, Pippi, San, Dollyvee, thank you very much for being here, for reading and responding.  I'm in a million tiny sharp jagged pieces here right now.  The other day a chat friend asked how I was doing and I said "Struggling through a bad patch which I am bearing with as much grace and as little excess self-destructiveness as I can."  That's about right, and about all I can do right now.  Maybe it's enough but it sure doesn't feel like it.

I'd really like to be able to be satisfied with knowing my truth and having it recognised here, by My Person, by my brother, by my friends, by whoever...but I don't think I can.  Not while she's still alive.  Not while she's basking in her smugness stewing in her invented tragedy.  She got her Covid booster the other day and I didn't really think or hope that it would kill her, but... :whistling:

 :bighug:

san  :hug:  :grouphug:

Really heavy stuff in therapy today when I realised that part of me wants to torment that bloody woman emotionally, and that if I gave into that urge I would know exactly how to push her buttons, and worst of all, that if I did push those buttons, it would do what no amount of empathy or kindness ever will:  Make her want my attention.

Bach, that is heavy.  I appreciate you sharing. 

 :hug:

It is perfectly understandable that you would feel that way given what she has done to you.

Quote from: Bach on November 04, 2021, 08:58:26 PM
Really heavy stuff in therapy today when I realised that part of me wants to torment that bloody woman emotionally, and that if I gave into that urge I would know exactly how to push her buttons, and worst of all, that if I did push those buttons, it would do what no amount of empathy or kindness ever will:  Make her want my attention.

HI Bach,

I relate to this and thanks for sharing. It's such a deep part of us that's connected to our mothers. No matter what my mom did, it was like there was some part of me that was always connected and I couldn't escape that feeling or make it better. After she died, I did feel kind of free and it's like that part was gone.

dolly

Quote from: Bach on November 04, 2021, 08:58:26 PM
Really heavy stuff in therapy today when I realised that part of me wants to torment that bloody woman emotionally, and that if I gave into that urge I would know exactly how to push her buttons, and worst of all, that if I did push those buttons, it would do what no amount of empathy or kindness ever will:  Make her want my attention.

That deep ache to have mom see. . .  I hear you. It makes me sad that you and your Parts are feeling that anguish.

heavy stuff, indeed.  that was quite a realization - you're showing your courage and your strength.  we're with you,  love and hugs, bach :hug:

Hi everybody  :wave: I'm still around. Just not doing well at all. Struggling to retain hope that things can get better again. My mother is a problem no matter what I do and it makes my entire being hurt. I can't put the genie back in the bottle  :'(

The hardest thing is knowing that I didn't make a mistake, haven't done anything foolish, was not wrong in thinking that I needed to confront the reality of her. I just didn't know how bad it would be or how unable I would be to keep Middle B with me instead of out there in my personal ether running around in terror and confusion, trying not to scream, trying to figure out how to make it stop.

bach,   i'm glad you know you did nothing wrong - i think that's major.  unfortunately, doing the right thing for ourselves, taking care of ourselves, is not part of the agenda of others, and they react  in the worst ways possible.  hang tough, bach - i'm hanging right beside you.  we'll get thru this together.  sending love and a hug with a built-in safety net to catch you if you feel like you're falling too far. :hug:

My entire being is a raw nerve.  Every molecule of me aches with the sheer existential agony of me-ness.  Is this the price of connecting to my body?

 :hug:

 :hug:

 :hug:

It isn't you or Middle Bs fault that nothing will change with your mother. There's only one person who holds responsibility for that and it is her. She won't change. I'm relieved that death finally brought an end to me eternally trying to fix stuff or be good enough or to figure out how to resolve and repair things. She never changed. She was never going to change. Facing death head on with full knowledge it was coming fast did nothing to change her not even with her grandkids. Sad as heck but I'm glad to no longer have to wonder what the magic fix is, all the while falling into the same horrible space that is engulfing you right now.

Bach. I'm sorry. There's nothing you can do. Leaving her in the past as soon as you can is where you can find the most relief. I couldn't do it m, so I understand if you can't either. but I also knew the whole situation had an expiration date. If I had a crystal ball and knew it was going to last another 2 years I would have had to walk away. I couldn't have handled it. As it was it was breaking my brain and body.

Quote from: Bach on November 14, 2021, 05:04:02 PM
My entire being is a raw nerve.  Every molecule of me aches with the sheer existential agony of me-ness.  Is this the price of connecting to my body?

I can relate to that feeling; it is awful. When I feel similar, my weighted blanket sometimes helps. Sometimes I need to take some meds to take the edge off. I'm sorry it is so hard, Bach.  :grouphug:

Bach, I can relate to the feeling of being made all of raw nerve.  There are some things like you describe that hurt so much.  I will be here thinking of you and offering you what feels supportive in this moment.

i've been there, too, with the raw nerve feeling, bach.  here's some soothing salve in the form of a healing light to help calm those nerves.  (if that doesn't sound right for you, please ignore, ok?)  in the meantime, know you are cared about and supported by folks here.  sending love and a gentle hug :hug:

Hope, Blueberry, Armee, Not Alone, rainy, san, thank you so much for your responses.  Your thoughts and empathy so caringly expressed really touch me.  They scare me, too, but it’s the healthy kind of scared, the kind of scared you can only feel when you know that there are things that are worth the pain of believing in.

My mental health is an absolute disaster right now.  I have some practical life stresses going on right now that are too scary and overwhelming to try to write about, and also of course ever present is the pain of existing in a world with my mother in it.  I have thoughts that torment me and I can’t write them down because it’s too overwhelming.  I don’t want to write at all right now but I can’t tolerate how I’m feeling, and I’m hoping to get a shift, some kind of relief or just something DIFFERENT by writing.  I’m having severe physical consequences for having spent three days inappropriately medicating my stress and tormented thoughts with weed and pills and sugar.  Today I have been somewhat more responsible, so if I can get through the night with no more bad behaviour, things might be a little easier tomorrow.

Somatic experiencing tomorrow, my fourth session.  I really hope this therapist can help me.

 :grouphug:

 :wave:

I hope writing helped, Bach, and the session goes well. :hug:

Hey Bach,

I hope your therapy appointment goes well. If you need to talk, I'm wide open. I am not a stranger to family stress. I've dealt with suicide, murder, robbery...and that's just the beginning of the stories I have of the monsters who raised me.

I won't ever ask you to share any details of your story with me, but if you want to just vent your frustrations, I'm offering to let you vent on me. I may have felt, or am still feeling, some similar stressors as what you're going through now.

Hello, friends.  Just a quick update here.  My mother problems have been temporarily superseded by a new stressor:  My Person and I have decided to buy a bigger house with a gorgeous property in a town about 15 miles west of where we currently live.  I'm excited about this but also extremely anxious.  It's my job in the relationship to deal with the communications and paperwork for these kinds of business matters.  I don't mind doing it but I am hoping that the nausea and other physical symptoms I have been suffering since we made this decision on Friday will abate soon.  We won't be closing on the house until mid-February, and then of course there will be moving and selling our current house, and the thought of feeling like this for the next several months is pretty scary!

sending vibes of strength and ease as you navigate this new endeavor, bach.  love and hugs :hug:

Best wishes Bach - you got this.

Tons of empathy from me as I just had to navigate a small portion of what's on your plate with selling my mom's house. Even though I am terrible with paperwork and finances and legal stuff I had to deal with it all and it was very stressful. I just pretended to be ok with it and got through.

Buying and selling a house and moving is a huge stressor. Hang in there. It's a long time between now and February so take it easy during some of the downtime and I'll be waiting for you to cross the finish line and be settled in a new beautiful home.

Hi Bach,
You have a lot on your plate at the moment, and I wish you strength and also send you a hug  :hug:
Hope  :)

 :bighug:

Happy New Year to all my friends here!  Sending care and love and warm good wishes to all of you for 2022.
:fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks:

I have started a new journal in anticipation of the big changes I have coming in the new year, and hope to be around here a bit more. 

 :cheer: