I'm really new to all of this, so please bear with me.
Mostly I feel confused and overwhelmed right now. Everyone I tried to reach out to kept telling me this stuff wasn't real, that I wasn't actually experiencing it... it's amazing to see people acknowledge it, and accept these things as a part of reality.
I'm not entirely sure how to differentiate between an EF and dissociation. I think they may happen together sometimes. Can anyone point me to further information about those states? I can't help but feel maybe most people don't believe me because I'm not explaining things well enough.
I'm pretty sure I've figured out dissociation, though I still struggle to explain it. I'm pretty frightened. At this point in my life, this seems like my default reaction. I've caught myself dissociating multiple times a day, every day, since I started paying attention to it.
EFs (or what I think EFs are), are even worse. They usually happen to me for long periods of time (weeks/months/years). Looking back at myself in that state, it's like I'm a very young child again (emotionally). In a lot of ways, it doesn't even really seem to be me. How do I recognize this sooner ? I usually only clue in when I have no one (maybe only a family member or two) left in my life. At that point, I seem to slowly "come to my senses", and realize the same thing happened again as it has in the past.
It's a really terrible cycle to be in, and I know I need to break it. I know the first step is to recognize it when it is happening instead of after, but I don't know how to do that. A few people have tried to show me techniques (from a PTSD approach), but I have not been successful.
Thanks in advance for anything you can share.
Jazzy
I'm afraid this will be a really long answer. ;)
Confused, overwhelmed... I can def relate! I felt the same on finding out about CPTSD. As far as people's reactions and advice, I really don't share with anyone unless I feel they're going to relate somehow. Even other victims tell me nonsense like "just don't think about it".
This is much different than PTSD, so the same coping skills and techniques that work for it may not work for us, and may even cause more harm.
An emotional flashback is a return to the emotional state we were in during or immediately following our abuse, & whether this happened in childhood or as an adult it is usually characterized by anxiety, feeling confused and/or feeling helpless. If you were abused in childhood an EF may also include feeling small and/or childlike.
There are different reactions to an EF and dissociation is only one of them. EFs are one of the most frequently discussed topics here and are very distressing. They can last for days, or years.
I'm going to cut it short there before I write a book, but you should def get Pete Walker's book "From Surviving To Thriving". Here's a link to a page on his website on managing flashbacks -
http://pete-walker.com/13StepsManageFlashbacks.htm
We're glad you're here, keep posting, keep talking, keep asking.
:heythere:
I've been at this a long time and I'm not sure I'm any clearer on the differences than you. I guess the way I tend to think about it is that dissociation is a process or state that is saving me from something I don't want to feel/deal with, whereas an EF is an experience I would really wish I were not feeling at all. EFs are hellish experiences. They are a transportation to the past where you feel what you never wanted or allowed yourself to feel. Does that make any sense?
Thanks for the replies! I have read most of the information on Pete Walker's site, and I will certainly look in to the books.
What I'm really struggling with is identifying I'm in a flashback, while I'm stuck in a flashback. It seems impossible to do so. It's even before step 1 of managing a flashback.
I'll do some more reading, and write out the best I can remember of what my flashback experience is like. I hope that will help.
I can also make notes and set "mood check up" reminders. I may even get a tattoo.
What do you do to help you identify you're in a flashback?
One of the first signs, for me, that I'm in EF is that I lose the ability to form coherent sentences. In Dr van der Kolk's excellent book "The Body Keeps The Score", he discusses brain scans that were done while the people were experiencing flashbacks, which revealed that parts of the brain (Broca's area) responsible for speech actually went dark. (They returned to normal after the flashback was over.)
Other signs you may be experiencing an EF:
>Sudden bursts of rage
>Sudden numbness
>Increased blood pressure
>Headaches
>Racing heart
>Dissociation
>Placating behavior
But IMO the most common sign reported here on our forum is feeling small and/or helpless.
Please never apologize for asking for clarification on something! That's why this forum exists. There is so much ignorance and misinformation about this, even in the health care community. We're here to help change that.
(The Body Keeps The Score is available on YouTube to listen to, free: https://youtu.be/EKjBM6MxTKg Part 1, and https://youtu.be/KSo699qcHfQ Part 2)
Even knowing the signs, though, it sometimes still may take me a bit to realize I'm in an EF so you're not alone. Thanks for your post!
:heythere:
Thank you so much, that is amazing! I cannot describe how relieved that makes me feel.
When there's much of a confrontation (how much varies depending on the situation), I literally cannot speak! I keep telling people this (before or after), and no one seems to understand that I literally cannot make words, and they don't even seem to notice when it happens! It's made me feel so alone and insane (weird, abnormal? something like that).
I am nearly crying from the feeling that it's not just me, as it has always seemed.
Thank you again.
:hug:
Quote from: jazzy on December 02, 2017, 04:01:47 AM
I'm really new to all of this, so please bear with me.
Mostly I feel confused and overwhelmed right now. Everyone I tried to reach out to kept telling me this stuff wasn't real, that I wasn't actually experiencing it... it's amazing to see people acknowledge it, and accept these things as a part of reality.
I'm not entirely sure how to differentiate between an EF and dissociation. I think they may happen together sometimes. Can anyone point me to further information about those states? I can't help but feel maybe most people don't believe me because I'm not explaining things well enough.
I'm pretty sure I've figured out dissociation, though I still struggle to explain it. I'm pretty frightened. At this point in my life, this seems like my default reaction. I've caught myself dissociating multiple times a day, every day, since I started paying attention to it.
EFs (or what I think EFs are), are even worse. They usually happen to me for long periods of time (weeks/months/years). Looking back at myself in that state, it's like I'm a very young child again (emotionally). In a lot of ways, it doesn't even really seem to be me. How do I recognize this sooner ? I usually only clue in when I have no one (maybe only a family member or two) left in my life. At that point, I seem to slowly "come to my senses", and realize the same thing happened again as it has in the past.
It's a really terrible cycle to be in, and I know I need to break it. I know the first step is to recognize it when it is happening instead of after, but I don't know how to do that. A few people have tried to show me techniques (from a PTSD approach), but I have not been successful.
Thanks in advance for anything you can share.
Jazzy
Jazzy, I'm in the exact same situation as you, I relate to everything you have said in your posts, and I was asking myself the same exact question as you, thanks for making this post.
:grouphug:
Wow BlancaLap... It's really sobering to hear you are going through similar. I wouldn't wish this experience on my worst enemy.
I would love to give you some better answers if I knew them, but I'm still trying to figure it all out. Perhaps we can try to figure it out together.
Quote from: jazzy on December 03, 2017, 05:41:13 AM
When there's much of a confrontation (how much varies depending on the situation), I literally cannot speak! I keep telling people this (before or after), and no one seems to understand that I literally cannot make words, and they don't even seem to notice when it happens! It's made me feel so alone and insane (weird, abnormal? something like that).
I am nearly crying from the feeling that it's not just me, as it has always seemed.
No, you are not alone. :hug:
I have trouble when there is a confrontation in the air. I get really nervous and shake internally. I can speak physically. But the words form very slowly in my brain and sometimes come out jumbled up.
FWIW I've been dealing with CPTSD for quite a while and I still have trouble recognising my EFs, especially the subtle-feeling semi-permanent ones. When I resurface after a few days and no longer feel so hopeless, then I realise: That was an EF last week! But when I'm in it, do I notice? No.
Quote from: jazzy on December 04, 2017, 12:17:38 AM
Wow BlancaLap... It's really sobering to hear you are going through similar. I wouldn't wish this experience on my worst enemy.
I would love to give you some better answers if I knew them, but I'm still trying to figure it all out. Perhaps we can try to figure it out together.
That would be great :hug:
In my experience, trying to figure out what's an EF and what's dissociation can be tricky (for me) because they strengthen each other. Usually when I'm triggered (which is... realistically all the time?) if I don't notice it when it's "small" but let it grow it turns into a full blown EF. Or, when the trigger is too strong then the EF is there before I can do anything about it.
Then it depends. Sometimes my self hatred will draw out the EF and torture me for as long as it can, this can last years. Other times I'll go straight to dissociation.
Physically, to me, EF's are always related to very strong self hatred. The one thing I've been able to notice that's always there is I abandon myself. A lot of anxiety is there too, and racing heart, hard to form words or think coherently. If it's very powerful and lasts too long it leads to depleted energy which ends up with depression and all that fun stuff, so I'm trying to recognize it and learn how to catch it as it's happening. It's very tricky because it really is my baseline. I learned to see my own emotions as my enemy.
I've been reading Pete Walker's first book, "the Tao of fully feeling" and "Healing the shame that binds you", I find them really helpful whenever my self hatred refuses to let go.
In a way, just recognizing it as a parasite :yes: is helping me the most. Just being able to say "Oh, there goes self hatred again. Yikes" rather than taking it at face value and believing it's an important part of me that speaks the truth, like I did till recently.
When I dissociate though it's different. Then the anxiety is replaced by... nothing? I become emotionally numb and also physically numb, I have a hard time speaking (physically can't speak, not just incoherent but dumb) and moving my body. And if I dissociate even more, I forget and just vanish.
The EF's are worst because they hurt so much. I try to learn how to deal with them first.
Dissociation is uncomfortable but I'm trying to see it as my protector. It's there taking care of me when my self hatred tries to tear me to pieces. I feel crazy when I dissociate badly but I guess we're anything but crazy to dissociate as the result of crazy circumstances. Getting yourself away from danger is the most logical, sane reaction there could be.
For me, PTSD approaches don't help much. It seems c-ptsd is very different, it may require different methods :Idunno:
I'm so sorry you have to experience this too. I know how rough it is.
We're here and you're most definitely not alone.
You're all awesome, thank you so much! I really appreciate what has been shared here.
Does anyone else suffer from a "busy brain"? It seems even when I'm doing well (for me), my mind is always busy. It's not that I'm distressed by a bombardment of thoughts all the time, or that I can't clear my mind if I put the effort in, but I would not use words like "relaxed" or "peaceful" to describe my mental state either.
On a more practical note, its causing difficulty focusing on things, such as reading some of the books recommended here.
Yup, that's me too. Like my brain has a radio playing that cycles thru all available stations, constantly.
Hi
If someone could help you examine how you feel, you might get the hang of spotting EFs.
Doing it alone, is sometimes like trying to spot an Elephant when you have never seen a picture of one.
My experience is that they are rarely dramatic...the term flashbacks gives a sense of urgency and sudden onset.
Feelings like "I don't know how to do this", "I don't have anyone to help me understand this", " I feel stuck", and "I feel confused" can all be EFs. Reminding me of a time when I had to cope alone with lots of trauma, and couldnt understand what the * was going on.
For me, it's like learning a new skill, and there is always something new to learn.....
Slim
Good point Slim. Bad EFs always seem to sneak up on me. They're easy to spot with the aftermath, but I keep getting blindsided, which I'm trying to stop.
This is what i've come up with so far. I'm thinking of designing it in to a tattoo, if it shows any success. Hopefully someone else will find this useful too.
(https://s8.postimg.org/lmbf62q9t/efdetection-first-draft.png) (https://postimg.org/image/lmbf62q9t/)
Jazzy, that's awesome. May I use it too?
I think we keep getting blindsided for real, I guess our emotional brain keeps responding to danger faster than our logical brain ever could (which is the way evolution made sure to make us, so we'd survive emergencies), so whenever we realize we've just gotten blindsided that's exactly what happened. Before our logical brain even had a chance to analyze the thing/s that triggered us, our emotional brain is already on full EF mode.
I guess it'll keep happening to us, the key is to manage it.
I have chronic physical pain, and the idea of management - instead of stopping pain completely, managing it well - makes a lot of sense to me.
Absolutely Ah! Please use and share.
Thanks for the compliment, and your insight as well. You're right on the money.
Out of the Storm helped me realize when I'm in an EF. Keep looking for information and you'll learn more and more about yourself, and also that you are not alone.
When I'm in an EF I get very angry and irritated at others. I start to feel hatred towards anyone, even if they have done nothing to hurt or bother me. I criticise, provoke and isolate myself during these periods.
Other times I feel numb and hollow. I dissociate a lot and usually I notice by thinking back and I realise I can't remember the last couple of weeks. When it's very bad I loose a sense of reality and myself.
Something else I became aware of by reading this thread is that I sometimes switch the order of words when I speak, could that be due to CPTSD maybe? I never felt that I'm not able to speak, but my thoughts can become very very slow and usually repetitive.
And thank you for posting ♡
Just wanna add that I figured out I can use the amazing tool "google" to find out why I mix up the order of words, and it's due to anxiety (surprise, surprise). Well, now I got that answered. The brain is very complex and interesting as always.
Quote from: Cookido on December 14, 2017, 06:57:49 PM
Just wanna add that I figured out I can use the amazing tool "google" to find out why I mix up the order of words, and it's due to anxiety (surprise, surprise). Well, now I got that answered. The brain is very complex and interesting as always.
:yeahthat: One upside to having CPTSD is: I don't think I would have looked into the working of the brain without. Admittedly a very small upside.
I mix up the order of words too when I'm talking, not writing. 'Nice' to know I'm not the only one, but also sorry you're similarily afflicted, cookido.
Quote from: Jazzy on December 03, 2017, 05:41:13 AM
When there's much of a confrontation (how much varies depending on the situation), I literally cannot speak! I keep telling people this (before or after), and no one seems to understand that I literally cannot make words, and they don't even seem to notice when it happens! It's made me feel so alone and insane (weird, abnormal? something like that).
I am nearly crying from the feeling that it's not just me, as it has always seemed.
Thank you again.
I feel the same way having read this! I spent years practically silent in social situations where one of my abusers was present. I faced the same reactions. Amusement that I wasn't talking or complete lack of awareness that I'd been silent. Chalk up 3 moments of not feeling alone in the world with a specific experience since I joined a few hours ago. This place is magic!
Busy brain? I can relate. It's a lot better these days, but I can still get stuck on it. My mind just churns out thoughts and more thoughts, grinding into my brain over and over. It gets crowded and to have so many thoughts feels claustrophobic in my head.
There are many signs of an EF, and others have mentioned that. But remember it's different for everyone. There are many similarities between us with trauma, but there'll be a particular tendency for you. The kinds of feelings you have in you. Where the distress is showing itself in your body. The habits and coping responses you do.
Usually in an EF, I either go analyze my subjects of distress to death or numb out. I get more scared, while others may get more angry or depressed. I can become a little too workaholic or go the other way and procrastinate when I'm not careful, while others can have an eating problem or may ruminate over it obsessively.