Out of the Storm

Hello,

I am pretty sure that what I have been suffering from all my (adult at least) life is CPTSD. I realised that when I came across info about this condition a few months ago and it was a big deal for me. I spoke to one GP about it (a locum doc) but she had never heard about it. By chance I had an appointment with my usual GP a few weeks ago and I mentioned it again. This time the doctor knew the condition and agreed I might have it and she referred me to a psychiatrist to make the possible diagnosis as the GP was not in position to make it.

I have no idea how long it will take before I can see a psychiatrist and I'm a bit worried that I won't get the diagnosis as it is such a new diagnosis in the medical world apparently. But I am very excited (among other things) that I might finally be on the road to getting the right diagnosis and treatment. Here I'd like to ask if anyone knows how likely it is to get a CPTSD diagnosis and the right treatment for it in the UK on the NHS?

Meanwhile, I have just been offered psychotherapy as I was on the waiting list for several months. I think it is psychodynamic psychotherapy. I did a short research and read that it is not recommended for PTSD (but no mention of CPTSD).

Would it be useful for me to start this psychodynamic psychotherapy now? Or wait to see a psychiatrist? Would psychotherapy be useful or a waste of time?

Thank you.

Hello Esmeralda,

I know there are a few people in here who's talked about NHS, maybe they can help you out more in relation to that.

I just want to tell you that CPTSD isn't yet an official diagnosis - by that I mean it doesn't have any diagnosis codes. But there are talks that it will be included in the new ICD system that will (hopefully) arrive in 2018. The good news is that UK uses ICD as their diagnostic tool rather than DSM-5.

As for treatment, I think it varies from person to person which ones they respond best with. I would advice against digging into your trauma's on your own and before you're stabilized. With stabilized I mean in no immediate threat, or too high levels of consistent anxiety, doing alot of SI and so forth.
I've personally mostly done CBT, anxiety treatments and I am now doing DBT. So I have no direct experience with psychotherapy.

hey, esmeralda,

i echo what sceal says about c-ptsd and therapy.  there are so many types of therapy, some of which are more attuned to trauma resolution than others.  i also believe that the relationship with the therapist is of prime importance.

different aspects of psychotherapy can help with different aspects of c-ptsd, but sometimes they will only go so far and no farther, at which time switching therapists is often the answer.   ideally, a therapist versed in complex trauma will be your best bet.  however, until you find one who is a good fit, a sensitive, caring therapist can be of extreme value, especially if you are new to knowing about c-ptsd.

i think that psychodynamic psychotherapy can be helpful and productive for you, for as long as you feel it is.  if it were me, i would give it a shot.  if it doesn't feel right, or you don't feel comfortable with the therapist, you can stop and go for someone else. 

now, i'm talking about how it works here in the states - i don't have experience with nhs.  we don't have waiting lists here, so it might work differently if you quit one therapist and want another.  that being said, please take my thoughts and see how they work for your situation there.  best to you with this.  big hug.

Thank you so much for your replies, Sceal and Sanmagic.

From what I've heard it is so much easier to get therapy or counseling in the US than in the UK, unless you pay for it yourself.

I had to wait 10 months since the moment I was referred by my GP but the good news is that the lady who called and offered me an appointment said that if I couldn't attend at the time she was available (only one slot in the week) I could stay on top of the queue and wait for another therapist to become available.

As for the diagnosis, I know that the condition will be "officially" present in the medical book in 2018 but it is now in the process of being included, so it seems that the NHS professionals are getting informed about it already. The first time I heard about CPTSD was when I had a look at the NHS website, so it is already included in the NHS list of diseases.

Like I said, one GP I talked to hadn't heard about it but the other knew. I just hope that the psychiatrist I am going to see is also informed.. Not sure if there is any specialised treatment available yet. The diagnosis in itself would mean a lot to me if I got it.

Thank you again for your advice. I will go to the initial appointment with the psychologist and see how it goes.

Has anyone else here been given the diagnosis of PTSD by a relevant professional?

I got mine diagnosed officially last year by a psychologist

Hi Esmeralda, I too am from the uk and got my ptsd diagnosis a year ago although I know it is more cptsd but because it's not on the dsm it can't be diagnosed. I've been really lucky through the nhs and have had on going help and support including counselling, Cbt, psychotherapy and EMDR. The EMDR has been life changing and I totally recommend it for cptsd if you get offered it, it's made me re process so many bad memories and I've cried like I never have before but felt comfortable in doing so where normally I try to suppress everything, with EMDR it just all comes out but it is a very exhausting process and can leave you a little on edge for a few days, but long term it's very effective.

Thank you for your replies, Sceal and Eyessoblue.

It is encouraging to read about people who had a disgnosis and helpful treatments.

However, I made a typo (not sure how since I paid attention).

I wanted to know if anyone on here has actually been diagnosed with CPTSD, not ptsd. It seems to me that the two are very different things, even though the symptoms partly overlap. Yes, the condition called ptsd has been recognised in medicine for a long time and almost everyone know about it, while CPTSD is so new and unheard of.

Like I wrote, my GP was aware of the condition and she specifically referred my to a psychiatrist to see if I can be given this diagnosis, so it would seem that the diagnosis is already in use? I haven't heard from the psychiatrist yet and I am waiting impatiently.. If it turns out that I won't get the diagnosis I will be very disappointed.

So again - sorry for the mistake - anyone here with an "official" diagnosis of CPTSD?

Hey, no I won't get a diagnosis of cptsd , as it's not under the dsm5 which is the proper diagnosis psychiatrist book in the uk it has to be officially diagnosed which I believe it won't be until next yr? So although we all know we have this as there is no yet official diagnosis, it  can only be diagnosed as ptsd, that's what I've been told by my psychologist in the uk.

When I was diagnosed by my former psychologists he told me there are 3 stages of PTSD, and he explained them in brief and then asked me which one I thought I fell under now that I knew that I had PTSD. I also knew I have some other diagnoses so I thought I had comorbid PTSD, but he said no. He said I got cPTSD. I didn't really get much info after that about what it entailed, I didn't really ask either. I had enough on my mind at the time. So, as far as I'm aware that is my official diagnosis.

So I've had two sessions of psychotherapy and so far not so good.

The lady does not seem to "get" what I'm trying to say. She is young, possibly inexperienced.

The first session was ok but what happened was that I was mostly talking, trying to tell her as much as possible, in more general terms, about what my problems were. I also mentioned CPTSD and she said she knew what it was. In the end she told me that she was sorry I had been through so much and that she was impressed by how resourceful I was, which made me feel good as I am desperate for validation, having grown up with a NPD parent.

But the second session, yesterday, felt like a waste of my time. The psychologist "jumped" on something I said which wasn't very important to me and asked me where I thought it came from (in my past) and I told her about my mother, then she asked more questions about that and she was very focused on my anger about that, which is not my main issue.

Then it was the same - I was opening up, telling her how I felt "inside" and her responses made me feel that she really couldn't put herself in my shoes and relate and truly understand me. She was trying but it wasn't happening. I would say something, try to explain my emotions, and then she would sum it up in a way that did not resemble the way I felt. I would talk for a while and when I stopped there were long silences and she was just looking at me, which made me feel slightly uncomfortable and irritated.

She seemed lost. When I tried to correct her understanding she finally said that whatever she suggested I was saying "no, no, no", as if I thought there was no hope for me, and again it was not how I saw it from my perspective. She made it sound as if she couldn't help me because I was blocking all her ways of helping me. She kind of asked me at some point what we should do and I said she was supposed to be the one with the ideas and she replied that it was a huge pressure on her.

She also surprised me by summing up what she thought I was saying as "My life has always been crap, is crap and will always be crap". I have encountered several therapists in my life and all of them were polite and well-spoken, I wouldn't expect a therapist to use this kind of vocabulary.

In the end she apologised for having sounded like I had been doing something wrong during the session.

As per description of psychodynamic psychotherapy, she tried to ask my questions about my past to link stuff rom my past to my current problems with the aim of making me understand more about myself and in this way make changes to my current situation but I told her that I know and understand where my problems come for but I don't know how to change things as I am not in control of them (e.g. flashbacks ect).

Am I off for feeling that I did not gain anything from yesterday's session? I left the session feeling unsettled having talked about painful stuff, but not having made any progress and it felt like pointless upset.

i've had some of the same feelings with my new t, who is supposedly a trauma therapist and said she's heard of both c-ptsd and alexithymia, but there have been several times when she's mirrored back to me what she thought i was meaning by what i'd said, and it wasn't what i'd meant at all.  so, i hear you on that.

i have no name for the type of therapy i'm undergoing, but it seems directionless to me.   i have to admit that it seems like i'm crying less than i have, which is one of the concerns i went to therapy for.  i've seen her twice, and had phone sessions twice.  the second session i confronted her about the uneasy feeling and ef that i experienced after the first session.

i'm going to give this a few more tries.  it just doesn't feel grounding to me.  may i suggest that you talk to your t about your concerns, see what she says.  after my first session, i wrote it all down in my journal, and read it to her.  that worked pretty well for me, instead of trying to remember all i needed to say.

best to you with this.  know that you're not alone, esmeralda.  the whole therapy field is experimental for us as clients, whether it's working for us, whether the t is a good fit for us.  please remember, you cannot do therapy wrong. 

i hope your t gets on board and does some research.  i hope mine does as well.  already, i've felt like i've been teaching her about some stuff where she doesn't have a clue.   we'll see.  sending a hug filled with clarity and strength.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with me Sanmagic7 and for your encouragement.

I had my third session today, just a couple of hours ago.

A few days earlier I saw my GP who printed for me a copy of the reply she received from a psychiatrist, to whom she had referred me for diagnosis. The psychiatrist wrote that she would not offer me an appointment as I have started psychotherapy and the psychologist I'm seeing can "assess" me for C-PTSD and treat it.. She (the psychiatrist) also wrote, quote: "complex PTSD, which is quite similar to Borderline Personality Disorder". I have no idea why she mentioned that but it made me feel that maybe it was a good thing that I would not be seeing this psychiatrist.

It is extremely worrying for me that a consultant psychiatrist would automatically associate C-PTSD with BPD, for no apparent reason. I would find it distressing as a person who was abused by a parent with personality disorder to be disgnosed with a personality disorder instead of being recognised as a victim of one..

Because of that expression my T (psychologist I just saw) mistakenly thought that I had been diagnosed with BPD until the very end of the session when the misunderstanding came to light..

Anyway, I brought print outs of info about C-PTSD to today's session and read to my T all the info I thought was important and relevant. We also discussed the important of having the right diagnosis for me (it is very important for me indeed and I am anxious that I won't get it). Apparently, she cannot give me a formal diagnosis and it has to be a psychiatrist!! But she said she would think about the possibility of a diagnosis and I think she said she'd speak to someone about it (although I'm not sure I remember that correctly).

So yeah, I had to teach her about C-PTSD apparently. At least she said it was a good thing that I'd brought all these materials to  my surprise as I had been anxious and uncertain, worrying if it would be inappropriate.

However, the therapy also seem directionless. I read to her that there are recommended stages of therapy for people with C-PTSD and the first one is stabilisation, but she did not seem to offer anything like that.

Now I am feeling very stressed with physical symptoms occurring strongly. I am struggling to breathe..

Yes, the whole therapy field for C-PTSD sufferers seems experimental, chaotic and not established. It seems that I have to fight for the right diagnosis and treatment in some way.

Thank you again.

Hello Esmeralda,

You write that the psychiatrist said that c-PTSD and BPD are quite similar. I have to say I'm not surprised why the psychiatrist said that, from what I've noticed is that alot of people who have c-PTSD as a result of traumatic events happening in childhood and teenage years have been either misdiagnosed with BPD, or have both c-PTSD and PD of some sort.
My understanding of PD's are that they are usually devellop during teenage and young adult life as a result of unstable upbringing in one form or another. Sometimes trauma, sometimes other things.

But similar doesn't mean it's the same thing.

I think it's great though that you've educated yourself on c-PTSD and it's a brave thing to bring what you've learned along to your T. Sometimes it's a bad fit, but sometimes the T just needs to learn alongside us as well. Maybe you bringing this to the session will encourage her to further look up on research in regards to PTSD and c-PTSD and also ask her colleagues for help and guidance.

I've also often felt that the therapy in stabilisation -phase is very directionless. I often have to return to this phase of the therapy, and it's frustrating. Both because it feels so slow, and because it feels as if I have to start all over again at the beginning. It's no fun. My only advice to you, is to bring up your concern to your T that you are feeling it's directionless and it would be nice if you two together could make a plan for the next few sessions. And also to be kind with yourself and try to be patient. It's hard work, but you can do it.

Of course, if you feel unsafe with this T, then that's not good at all!

Hi Esmeralda,

Re. the psychiatrist equating C-PTSD with BPD... just my two cents, based on very bad personal experience in the past:

There's such stigma surrounding BPD, so much misunderstanding and often ignorance, so if a psychiatrist knows very little about trauma and also about BPD... they can equate the two but it's very mistaken, methinks.

Also if I'm blunt, it seems to me some professionals may be looking for a new fad, something newer than BPD to pin all the same stigmas on, and for some the newer diagnosis of C-PTSD may be it. I hope I'm wrong but from stuff I've read online in several languages, I doubt it. Therapists saying they're specialists in C-PTSD and saying harmful things.
C-PTSD isn't like PTSD so they aren't quite sure what to do with it, but it also isn't like BPD. It's its own thing.

My personal experience with this has been harsh. As a teenager my FOO managed to far too easily get me diagnosed with BPD because I was trying to speak up about the abuse happening to me. Pinning BPD on me was the perfect exit strategy for my FOO, it labeled my as a chronic manipulative liar so no one ever believed me, and they were free to destroy me completely without anyone stopping them.
It destroyed my life, my whole family took my abusers' side and later in life they also made sure my colleagues had the same lies fed to them.

I'm glad you won't be seeing this psychiatrist either.  :no:

It's extremely worrying to me too. I'm 100% with you on this. Couldn't agree with you more, a person who was abused by personality disordered parents being re-traumatized by the psychiatrist in such a way is disheartening. Not because it's impossible to have BPD but because it's victim blaming at its worst, by an authority figure who can stop you from getting help for C-PTSD and send you down a mistaken therapy path.

Be firm when you meet good people, good therapists and friends. Give them the correct info and insist on it. Give them impressive formal written down things you print out so your words will have further weight to them. Where a non-traumatized person feels danger and has a temporary rush of anxiety that then weakens when the danger is gone, for us traumatized people we're living in constant danger because of terror we experienced.
So different.

I ache to think how many people (especially women) have had their lives totally destroyed by a mistaken BPD diagnosis and all of its stigma. And how many of them were abused and not only didn't get any of the help they needed but were also silenced like me.

just as an update to my feeling 'directionless'.  my t told me to stop, basically, that i'd learned and known enough, and i needed to just be for a bit.  there was no history-taking, no questions about what happened, and that all felt foreign to me.  hence, directionless.

but i pretty much have been doing just that, and i'm feeling much better about it.  i think it cleared something out for me, maybe a need to control, but as i've mentioned elsewhere, i now feel as if i'm a magnet and things are coming to me in ways that didn't happen when i was 'pushing' for answers all the time.  it seems better, because it seems to be healing me.

i'm glad you're not having to see that psychiatrist, either.  i've seen too many people on this forum questioning whether they have c-ptsd or bi-polar disorder( which is also different from a personality disorder).    c-ptsd and bpd may have similar symptoms on some levels, but they're very different intrinsically.

i think it's great that you brought the info in for your t.  unfortunately, i believe we oftentimes do have to educate the professionals so that they can better see our needs and understand how best they can work with us for recovery.  i don't believe it's ever inappropriate to bring in pertinent info to the professionals.  i've done it for years, not only in the therapy professions, but medical professions as well.

i hope your t ends up helping you - that's the bottom line.  best to you with this.   big hug.

Again, thank you for your advice, support and sharing of your own experiences, Sceal, AH and Sanmagic.

AH, I am so sorry for what your FOO put you through by presenting you to the world as a manipulative liar with a PD. I can't imagine how hard it must have been. I have always struggled with the fact that the "the world" didn't understand the reality that I lived in but it was slightly different in my case - my N mother pretended to be a normal, loving mother and although some things must have been off, no one really knew what * I was going through every day, even my extended family who I was close with. And I'm still struggling to some degree with the fact that I look normal on the outside so no one knows about the * that is still going on in my mind.. Which feels unfair.

Tomorrow I will have my fourth session with this psychologist and to be honest I am not looking forward to it. I do not have much hope at this point that this will work out for me. I spent the first three sessions trying very hard to make this lady understand what my problems really are and I don't feel that I have got anything out of these sessions. So so far this is not going anywhere.

As for being directionless, it is not a stabilisation stage. She mentioned nothing about stabilisation. It is also not a stage where we have already done some work and can now be "directionless". It's only just started and we don't even seem to understand each other.

She is either inexperienced or a bad match for me, or both. Sadly.

Sometimes I think that the best T for me would be someone who went through similar problems but overcame them and educated themselves about it and got trained as a T. Such a person would definitely be able to help me. This lady, though, seems to struggle when it comes to empathising with me, so maybe her life experiences were very different?

In any case the fact that I have to teach, almost lecture my T about the condition that I believe I have is not reassuring. The same apllies to the fact that a psychiatrist that I wanted to give me the correct diagnosis, mentions automatically BPD for no reason whatsoever. Particularly because my problems come from being a victim of abuse and people with BPD, although they themselves suffer because of their disorder, they are prone to abuse and mistreat others, so to put these two conditions together, almost equate them and do so for no reason is really upsetting.

Well, I will go tomorrow and see what happens and what the T will say after I spent the whole session reading to her about C-PTSD in detail and after I told her how important it is to me to get the diagnosis. Maybe she will come up with something useful. If not, I will probably try and find another T, who might be a better match.

dear esmerelda, too many times we have to be the teachers to the professionals, whether it be mental or physical health.  it's just a shame, and i'm really sorry you're not getting the help you want or need.

i'm struggling as well.  i don't know if this will work.  it seems like a chore to go see her, rather than something to look forward to as a place of guidance, information, and healing.  i don't know.

i'm standing with you - you're not alone.  i hope you find some satisfaction, that it's just taking some time.  best to you.  big hug.

san and esmerelda,

I'm sorry it's the case for both of you atm, not feeling understood or well-supported.  :hug:

Thank you Blueberry for the hugs. Thank you Sanmagic for sharing and being with me through this therapy experience. I'm very sorry to hear that you are not feeling great in your therapy either. I hope I have not added any negativity to your thoughts about your own therapy.

I really don't want to be negative or put anyone off seeking help.

But I have to write more about it because I'm just fresh out of my fourth session and quite disheartened, and now I have hardly any hope that it will go somewhere. Wrtiting here helps me clear my mind and also helps me have written details of what went on, so that I can look back at it if I need to (if I have to explain to anyone in future why this wasn't working for me).

Basically, session number 4 felt to me like a repeat of number 1,2 and 3. All I've been trying to do so far is to explain to the T what I have experienced and what my life and problems are like at the moment. I believe I've done a great job describing it to the best of my ability for the 4 hours I've had with her. And my ability to describe my experiences is very good from what I've been told before.

She still doesn't seem to fully understand it and I have felt very little, if any, empathy from her. She seems detached and reserved and all she does is listen when I talk about my pain. Then when I stop she would look at me and have a long pause, then ask a question. The few times she tried to sum up what I'd said, she got it wrong or said something so convoluted that I didn't know what she was trying to say. And she only tries occasionally anyway.

She asked me today if I was ready to talk about the details of my past trauma and I said I was but if it had a purpose, and asked her what the purpose would be in this therapy, and I did not get an actual answer. I told her that if I'm to talk about it just for the purpose of saying it, then I don't think it would help me.

I actually told her that I've been trying to tell her the whole time how I feel and I believe I've really done it. I told her I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of this, since there is no feedback, no return, no reflection or different perspective from her. I come and talk, get more upset in the process and leave without anything to hold on to, any tools, anything to work with.

I said that if it was going to be like this, me talking and she just listening and asking a question here and there, then I don't think it will be helpful for me. She said she was still trying to get to know me. I agreed to come again in a week to talk about the therapy specifically.

One thing she said astonished me. I was telling her about my difficulties and painful emotions I feel every day and she said she found it "interesting" because she didn't see any signs of these emotions in my appearance.. And that maybe I am like that with everyone else so no one knows how distressed I am therefore I never get the help I need. That was because I told her earlier how my childhood was extra painful because the abuse I was going through was hidden from the world.. She really doesn't seem to have a clue.

The thing is, I was sitting there talking and at the same time struggling to keep my composure, struggling to breathe, trembling, my voice trembling, my eyes welling up sometimes briefly.. And on previous occasions I was even worse, had to wipe away tears throughout each session.. And she didn't see any signs of distress in me? Like, *?? For the second time in four sessions she made me feel like the fact that she was unable to help me was my fault. Like she couldn't empathise with me because I wasn't showing my distress enough?? Can she not just listen to my words and try to imagine the feelings, if my trembling and fighting tears is not enough? And what does she need anyway to fully see my pain? Do I have to break down into a puddle on the floor? I'm sure if I did she would still sit there in the same way, saying very little.

I told her at the end that I was surprised she couldn't see my distress.

As for the subject of diagnosis, she said she as a psychologist cannot give me a formal diagnosis and even a psychiatrist wouldn't at the moment because C-PTSD will only become an official diagnosis when the updated version of the ICD in May 2018.

Only the very first time I saw her she said at the end of the session that she was sorry I'd been though so much and she thought I was resourceful. Since then she never said anything like what other T would say (I had brief encounters with several), for example "it must have been so hard for you" or anything like that, anything that would make me feel understood and validated.

She just sits there, quiet and expressionless, not even nodding, looking quite closed off with her hands on her lap.

esmeralda, in no way are you adding anything neg. to my own t experience.  what you are adding is further food for thought about if this is being helpful to me.  there's a lot i can relate to, especially

QuoteThe few times she tried to sum up what I'd said, she got it wrong or said something so convoluted that I didn't know what she was trying to say.

,'

that's happened with me as well several times.  also, mine has said nothing about stabilization, which is why i felt like the therapy is directionless.  it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.  she does nod, at least, said that i was a miracle to be here at all after everything i've gone thru, stuff like that, but i don't feel like i'm getting any guidance as to what to do next, which direction to go.

the one thing she said to me that helped was to take some time off from continuing to research any of this, that i knew enough.  i reinterpreted that to mean i just needed to be with myself for a bit, which, thankfully, was very helpful.  however, most of the breakthroughs i'm now experiencing have been of my own doing.

like, grieving my heartbreaks.  continuing to post here for support.  being mindful of my tension levels in my body.  she hasn't suggested any of that.

i do have another session next week, and we'll see what happens.  i've been going thru some very physically and emotionally stressful times that i can report about, but, honestly, altho i thought about calling her, my second thought was 'what could she do for me?'  when i've asked her to help calm me down the day before my surgery, all she did was list off things for me to do on my own, and cut the session short..  i'd wanted the calming exercise to come from her, and she didn't get that at all.

i'll be interested to hear how your next session goes.  i know that i have a difficult time relating to someone who just sits there without giving me feedback of some kind, even if just a head nod.  yeah, i guess i am going thru this with you.  i can relate a lot to your experience.  big hug to you, es.   i'm glad you're standing up for yourself.   i think that's a good thing.

hi Esmeralda,

I think what you're writing is anything but negative. It's thought provoking, important, interesting.
I hope a therapist or two might read it one day too  :bigwink:

I want to add another thought to this thread: I don't have a therapist, can't afford therapy. I'm not the only one. So for experience and understanding I come here to the forums, they function as a support group. They also teach me a lot.
I haven't been diagnosed with c-ptsd, it would probably be important in some contexts such as getting mh treatment / insurance coverage, but in my experience reading, figuring things out slowly on my own is working too.
There's so much emphasis put on traditional t but when that's not doable, I don't think it's the only way to learn about c-ptsd, gain insights (just like sanmagic is doing) and make sense of our experiences and emotions.

It's not ideal without t, I agree, but it can be done. If you don't have a good connection with your t, keep looking and searching and we're here for you. 

Are there any specialized trauma societies you can try to contact? They may know more and be able to offer more accurate help, or at least some advice where you might be able to look.

I haven't met your t, but she sounds like she might not be a good fit for me either  :bigwink:
To be honest, if she isn't trauma-experienced I would personally look to her for validation and I think you may be 100% in guessing she may be inexperienced, so it may be rough on her.
Her question to you whether you're ready to talk about the details of your past trauma may be appropriate for ptsd (I think) but less so for c-ptsd with multiple, beginningless / endless traumas that are more people oriented than event oriented experiences. c-ptsd seems to me to be more a betrayal on a personal level than a traumatic list of events. It's not really a traumatic experience that is causing me pain, it's my whole life of traumas that's doing it. It puts the emphasis somewhere else.
Maybe she's in good company, I guess very few therapists know about c-ptsd and are experienced in it.
So much of this is physiological and for me, understanding what my body is doing is an important part of the puzzle so I self educate and try to make sense of what I learn.

Just my two cents. Or a cent and a half, since I'm not a t. Just someone with c-ptsd who reads far too much.

Hi
I've been reading all you've said and really feel that you have not got a good match there. Therapy is such a major deal and to be able to basically bare your soul and put everything out there you have to feel completely safe and confident that this therapist you are telling everything to does 'get you' and understands where you are coming from, I'm just worried that already you have your gut feeling when you don't think she's understanding you that the relationship will be difficult to develop. I am on my 3rd therapist now and finally realised what a good therapist is, she is specifically trained in trauma too which makes the world of difference, someone who understands totally what I've been through, she's always empathetic and very intuitive to my expressions or what I'm trying to say, are you in a position where you can be offered a different therapist? I hope you are because if that match isn't right I really don't think it will work for you. Best of luck.

hey, esmeralda, just wanted to let you know that i fired my therapist the other day.  realized she was clueless, wasn't asking questions to find out about me and my issues, and that i was having to continually teach her about what direction i needed to go in, what i was needing from here - in essence, i was directing the therapy instead of the other way around.

so, done with that.  i'm looking into some alternative healing methods now.  i'm peaceful with my decision, which gives me a signal that i did the right thing.  i hope you have better luck than i did.  if not, it's ok to let your t go, find someone or something different to help you with this.

big hug to you.  i'd love to know how yours works out, if you care to share.  sending strength and stabilization to you in that hug.

So I went to see the T for the fifth time but this time with the sole purpose to discuss the therapy. She knew about it and this time she quickly started this subject, which was different from the other times when she would just look at me and then ask a faint question about how things had been the previous week.

This time, with a clearer head (since I wasn't talking about my painful stuff) I realised how inadequate she really was. I saw more distinctly bad patterns between us that had been present from the start.

For example she would not answer my questions. This time I asked the same questions about the therapy and her approach that I had asked on previous occasions without getting an answer. This time I had to insist on an answer. I found myself saying things like "I asked you this question before" or "I'm asking this for about fifth time" and "can you please answer this question". Example of questions that she had trouble answering are "What is your role in this therapy", "Are you here just to listen while I am supposed to talk all the time", "Is this what this therapy is about". Only when I mentioned asking a question several times and insisted on an answer she would finally try to answer it but only briefly and then she would change the subject without really clarifying things.

This made me realise that this is what she had been doing the whole time. She would encourage me to talk about something (my painful experiences) and I would do that and when I stopped she would most of the time sit there quietly looking at me and then maybe ask another question which would direct me on a slightly different track and my hurt that I'd just opened up would go unaddressed, undealt with, just hanging in the air while I'd be struggling with some different aspect.

I mentioned this to her as well and again I had to say it several times and she would still ignore it and react in the exact same way changing subject. Then she would act as if I'd never said it, for example acting as if she wanted to understand what I didn't like about the therapy, when I had just told her!

I said to her that she hadn't been engaging with me and she was just sitting there being quiet, and she in a typical manner replied: "Mhm.. And I'm just wondering.." and started talking about whether I wanted to talk about my traumas in a general or detailed way, which was something that came up earlier. Basically I realised that this was a typical response of hers and the way she acted previously during therapy sessions when I talked about something painful. She'd be like "Mhm.. And I'm just wondering.." and would ignore what I'd just said and began talking about something different. I said it to her as well, I told her there had been no continuity and that the therapy was chaotic.

I metioned to her most of the stuff that I was bothered by in this therapy, I said that I was surprised that she had said she couldn't see my emotions which I was talking about, while I struggled (unsuccessfully) to keep my composure, so how did she expect me to act for her to see the emotions? This was a question that she also ignored and her response was that she thought that I must have been very closed off with other people since I had said that I never got the help I needed (I think this was referring to me saying that the abuse was hidden because I don't know what else it could be). So wait a minute - she came to a conclusion that I must have been closed off with people and not really showing how distressed I was because this was in her opinion an explanation for why I never got more help in my life, and this is why she said that she wasn't seeing my emotions when I clearly displayed them?? This is some seriously screwed up back-to-front thought process by a therapist! She basically was never focusing on what I was saying, she was never trying to imagine how this would feel, so I was right in my impression that she couldn't understand me and empathise with me. She just didn't pay that much attention to what i was saying and instead was creating her own theories and explanations in her head during therapy.

Another thing that had made me feel uncomfortable was that she'd mentioned quite often how she needed to observe our interactions and our relationship so that she would have a better idea about how I interacted with people.. No other T that I dealt with before was so focused on that idea. No one else even mentioned it to me before but this T did at almost every session. It made me feel like I was some object to be observed, a subject of an experiment and not a person to engage with. I think she was too focused on things like that and not paying enough attention to what I was actually saying and trying to convey about how I feel. Plus, the way I interact with a T is not necessarily the way I interact with other people in my life, especially since other people come in many various capacities.

So this time the subject of our interactions came up a lot as well. I was saying a lot of stuff about what I was bothered by in this therapy with her (about the way she was acting) and she was mostly ignoring it and turning it all on me. She was asking me what our interactions reminded me of from my past. She was trying to blame my dissatisfaction with her on me and my past traumas. She was trying to turn it into analyzing my problems and finding explanation in my past. She asked me whether there was something in my past traumatic experienced that our relationship (of therapist and client) reminded me of. I said no, it's just that we don't understand each other. I had to insist on that.

She said things like that several times and when she started again saying something like "Maybe this therapy is not working because you.." I said that I didn't like the way she was using her position to put me in my place. It just came out of my mouth. She asked "Do you think I am using my professional position?" and I said "Yes because you keep saying the therapy doesn't work because I.." and I added "Maybe it's both of us". What I really wanted to say was "Maybe it's you" or "For sure it's you" but I decided to make it as non-confrontational as possible.

She said repeatedly that she was feeling that there was a lot of anger and frustration coming from me and she was wondering what it was caused by (probably suggesting my past traumas). I said I wasn't angry (I wasn't) and that I was frustrated for precisely the reasons that I had already mentioned many times.

She also asked me several times if I thought this kind of therapy wasn't for me and I said that I wanted to try this therapy with another therapist. She was trying to make it into anything other than take any responsibility.

She was very unhappy with me wanting to just try a different therapist. She asked me (more than once, and I answered the first time) what I wanted to talk about with a different therapist. The whole thing was really frustrating and it left me without any doubt that I shouldn't carry on with her. Honestly, it all seemed too twisted and frankly this kind of interaction could well be triggering for someone who had experienced emotional / psychological abuse.

In the end she very reluctantly said that she would speak to her colleagues and see what can be done. And that was that. I had to ask what colleagues and why not a supervisor. She said senior colleagues. I asked if I can talk to them and she looked very uncomfortable. Finally she said she would tell them to contact me. I asked when and she smiled and said she couldn't tell me that. There was no time frame and she wouldn't see them until a week later.

I have already tried to contact her supervisors myself and I have been given a phone number to call.

I can't help thinking that she is just really bad at her job.

Sanmagic, Ah and Eyessoblue - once again big thank you for your sharing and support.

I agree that it is possible to help and heal ourselves with hard work, using information and inspiration from sites such as this, books etc. I have done tons of work over the years and have changed positively from the lost, pitiful person that I was at the beginning of my adult life and I have done most of it by myself. But there is still so much healing left to do, it is overwhelming sometimes.

As for afforing therapy, I also could not possibly afford private therapist, so I am dependent on what I can get from the NHS and it is very limited. It is not like in the US, where from what I'm reading it is easy to access therapy paid by insurance and one can choose a therapist. I waited 10 months from when I was referred and then I got this lady. Now I can hope to convince her supervisors to let me wait for another one without being put back at the bottom of the queue.

Yes, it is extremely important to have a T who understands and makes us feel safe. This one did neither. I'm wondering if she can possibly help anyone with the way she approaches therapy. I think she isn't just a bad match for me, I think she is not a good T at all. Sadly, these things happen. Maybe more often than we expect.

Hi Esmeralda, I didn't realise you were from the uk too, you have every right to ask to see someone else that definitely is not a good match for you, please don't be put off by that one therapist, she sounds very inexperienced to me and in your circumstances you really need to see someone specially trained in trauma, I've been really lucky and I'm with a specialist trained trauma counselling psychologist, the difference in her is huge compared to the other ones and my therapy is working really well because she knows what she's talking about!! I'm sorry you had to wait so long too, I know some others on here have had to wait a really long time too, I've been really lucky and seen really quickly plus had a mixture of EMDR and psychotherapy which works really well for me.

Eyessoblue, thank you for validating my experience and needs.

It's good to hear that also living in the UK you've got the right therapy and a good experience that has really helped. I will keep trying.

You're right that this T sounds very inexperienced or just struggling at her job. Maybe she knows the theory but applying it in practice is a different story, as you need to have certain personal characteristics to be good at that.. Anyhow, my chapter with her is closed now.

Thank you.

es, your experience sounds so similar to mine, and we both came to the same conclusions - not the right therapist for us.  and, like you, i don't see this one being very good at the whole therapy dynamic.  she told me she was there to support and validate me when i asked what was going on with what had been happening in our sessions.  no, i, too, was looking for someone much more directive and proactive.

i really hope you don't have to wait long, that you can get hold of a supervisor, and begin getting some proper therapy.  it does get so frustrating, that's for sure.  i believe you made the right decision.  by the by, my t was the one who even brought up the idea that i might seek help with someone else.  i don't like the way yours handled it at all.  big hug to you.

Hi Esmeralda,

I wish I had seen this thread before. I have some experience of psychodynamic therapy, I tried training to be a counsellor in that model and had to have therapy with a therapist in that model. They do concentrate on how it feels to be in the room with the client. In my experience the therapist was placing greater importance on how she felt than on what I actually said.

As I understood it they are trained in Freud's ideas, many of which have been superseded. It was not a good fit for me, & I actually complained to the BACP about her and also about the organisation I trained with. The training ended before completion for me too.

Have you changed T or are you back on a waiting list?

I have not had any luck with the NHS so far, I fund my own counselling, which can be hit or miss. However, you do seem to be more assertive than me which is a good thing.
G

Thank you for your replies Sanmagic and Gromit.

Yes, the t seemed to pay too little attention to what I was saying and didn't seem to try and put herself in my shoes at all. In my view she used her own life experiences to assess my life situation and my feelings. Her reactions seemed to have little to do with what I was saying. I ended up twisting myself in a pretzel to try to explain to her how I was feeling and what my problems were and it was distressing. Talking about my most painful stuff would be difficult enough with someone who would understand but trying to explain it to someone who didn't seem to understand was soul-destroying.. It actually reminded in some ways of the times when I experienced emotional abuse.

There were so many other things that were very concerning, which I mostly descrtibed in this thread. It began with her asking me what I wanted to do in this therapy and when I told her what I wanted to do she said we would do something else first (put my past behind and look towards the future), then when I said that I didn't see how we could do that, she told me that I was blocking all her ideas!! Ok, there were some more details in the story but this is a rough summing up. She never followed up on what I had said I wanted to do in therapy.

And during the fourth session she said she didn't see the emotions I was talking about (sadness, anguish, fear, anxiety) while I was crying and trembling!! I mean - seriously??? How could I ever want to come back to this person, what would be the point after hearing this? This is just unbelievable.

Gromit, thank you for shedding some light on psychodynamic psychotherapy, but are you saying that this is how it should normally look? I am really confused about that and I asked the t this question many times but never received a straight and informative answer.

What happened in the end was that I emailed the service and asked to speak to a supervisor. A week or two later I received a phone call from a lady who said she was a supervisor and she wanted to know quite in detail what I was unhappy about during the sessions. I told her and she did try to defend the therapy style and explain away some (or most) of my concerns.

She said, for example, that silences were allowed and I said but there were too many silences. She said that the relationship between a client and a therapist plays a big role as an indication of client's relationships and interactions with other people. However, (and I don't think I explained this to the supervisor, I'm just explaining it here) when I was talking to the t the last time I saw her, the issue I had was not that she kept bringing up the client - therapist relationship, but that I kept telling her what bothered me about her "style" and asking her questions and she kept ignoring all of that and instead turning it all on me and asking what bad experiences did the therapy with her remind me of and in this way taking the focus away entirely from herself and what I tried to bring to attention. I would say something like "you never followed up on my suggestions about what I wanted to do in this therapy after you asked me for suggestions" and she would be like "Hmm, I'm just wondering what our relationship reminds you of from your past".

I also told the supervisor about the "I don't see your feelings" incident. The supervisor tried to justify that too. She said that a t observes a client's reactions and might see things that a client is not aware of. She gave me example that her client was talking about an argument with someone and was saying she was angry but she (the supervisor, who is also a t) saw that the client was sad and the client agreed. I said but it has to ring true and it didn't in my case. And I repeated that at the time my t said she wasn't seeing my emotions, I was crying and shaking, struggling to keep my composure. She said "oh I see".

I explained that I didn't feel understood and validated etc. I told her that I'd felt physically ill after the sessions.

The supervisor heard me out, more or less, and then told me her suggestion. She said that in cases like that "they" advise that a client should go back to the same t and try again, once it is known what the problems are. She talked about it for a while, basically repeating it in different ways, and I finally kind of interrupted her and said that I'm not going back to this lady. I said it was too stressful for me, I tried but it was too much effort, too much organising and I didn't get anything out of it, I only ended up distressed. I think my voice trembled a bit at some point when I was saying that. I really felt upset at the thought of going back to this t.

The supervisor didn't sound impressed and she said she would have to speak to her colleagues and call me a week after and let me know what was going to happen. About a week later she did call and said they would put me back on the waiting list and I would see another t. She asked a few questions about what time and place would be convenient for me.

I've heard nothing since. I don't know whether they placed me at the end or the beginning of the waiting list. I should probably chase it up and find out.

Yeah, it looks like mental health services are really poor on the NHS. I wish I could afford private t.

I have recently referred myself back to a place where I had CBT for a while. I found it helpful to some degree at the time and I hope that it is a bit more accessible than the one I'm waiting for. Haven't heard back yet, though.

I notice that a couple of posters mentioned my ability to stand up for myself. It is definitely not something that always came easy to me - quite the opposite. It took a lot of effort, time and hard work for me to learn it and I'm still not perfect. Sometimes I can't do it, other times I overdo it (get very defensive and argumentative), but it's work in progress. It is nice to 'hear' that some of you noticed it. I can pat myself on the back. :)

Thank you.

Hi Esmeralda good for you, you have stated your concerns and got answers and that is really proactive, as you know I'm with the nhs too, I had to wait about a month before I was seen, but I'm really hoping you get a therapist you can relate to and feel different about, I'm pleased that they are able to provide you with a different one, I'm sure you're neither the first or last person to do this, I imagine it must be quite a normal thing to do as the therapeutic relationship has to be right for therapy to work. Good luck hope it goes well for you, keep us updated.

Thank you for your support Eyessoblue. You wrote you had to wait a month before you were seen.. I'm not sure what that means. You waited a month to be seen by a therapist from the time you were referred? I know you are seeing a specialist trauma counselor, which is amazing. I have no idea how you got such great opportunity because where I am (a big city) I have been trying for years to access proper therapy and there was always something in the way, or not right for me (apparently), or not available for this or other reason, so all I ever got was a few months of CBT - which did help me to some degree.

To see the psychotherapist I had to wait for more than 10 months from when I was referred. Now that this hasn't worked out and I'm back on the waiting list, I have waited almost 14 months!! This is really discouraging.

So I referred myself to CBT and today I had a telephone assessment.. I knew I shouldn't have told them that I'm on the waiting list for psychotherapy, but I said it in the end. The outcome is that they won't offer me CBT because then  I'd have to be taken off the waiting list for psychotherapy and they feel psychotherapy will be better for my needs.

How frustrating and discouraging!! I need help, I want help, I do all I can do get help, but I'm getting nowhere. It takes a lot of effort, as many people on here will understand, to even fill in an online form to refer myself and a lot of effort to make time and prepare mentally for a telephone assessment and for it to achieve nothing YET AGAIN just makes me want to give up.

Again, I'm feeling dreadful today after having to talk about all of the stuff that is so painful for me and having nothing good coming from it. I think it gives me emotional flashbacks that last for a couple of days and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to make it stop.

Well, she said she would send me information about other services, including low-cost counseling, so we'll see but from experience I expect that it won't be as good as it all sounds. I'm getting impatient with this banging my head against a wall and not being able to get any help or treatment.

In any case, I am told, all therapies on the nhs are very limited in time (several weeks for CBT and 16 sessions for psychotherapy, which is described as long-term) while from what I've read about cptsd, the treatment should last for a couple of years.

It is also very interesting for me to read that you had EMDR Eyessoblue - was it also on the nhs and was it at the same time as counseling? I have an appointment with my gp tomorrow and I intended to ask if I can be referred for EMDR but now I'm feeling pessimistic and expect that they will tell me that I can't be referred to anything else while I'm on the waiting list for one thing. If it is even available in my area at all.

i hear your frustration, esmeralda.  been there, done that too many times, and it never gets any easier.  hang tough, sweetie.  just hang tough.  it's all i know to say.  i don't know how the nhs works, but from what i've read it's really difficult to navigate, to get your needs met, and to get ultimate satisfaction.  i wish the best for you on all three counts.   big hug to you.

Hi Esmeralda, yes I only had to wait 4 weeks to see my trauma psychologist which I believe is really good for the nhs, yes I have emdr one week and psychotherapy the week after and it is working really well on the nhs. I'm only entitled to 12 sessions at a time, I did actually have 16 sessions to begin with she managed to extend it but after 16 she 'had' to discharge me even though I wasn't ready to be, she then told me that I could re apply for more therapy and basically told me what I needed to say, I had to leave it a month though before I did this. Luckily just waited 4 weeks and am back seeing the same lady again, it's very hard though because at about 8 weeks in I am settled and feel relaxed in talking etc then a few weeks later due to nhs guidelines I have to leave to go back again which sets me right back again! The EMDR is really affective for trauma and it is hard and takes a few days to work, but afterwards I have little memory of things that happen and feel more relaxed, my problem is I have so much due to a life time of abuse that I feel like I'm never getting to the end and then that's when my anxiety gets really bad! I am extremely greatful tho that I am getting the help on the nhs and it's been so quick, I live in a small village so I guess that's why I've been so lucky. I really hope it works out for you, keep me posted on how you get on.