Firstly some yukky guilt..about being all over this forum and feeling anxiety about having too much to say and wanting to contribute 'too much'. Urggh.
The journal might help as cannot hijack my own thread! And can splurge here and its ok.
Recent lightbulbs brought jolt and me to my senses... narc mother and pa father from birth. Taken me 50 years to figure it all out with much resistance as the more I realise the more pain bubbles up to the surface. Yes I was abused psychologically, emotionally, physically, and then abused by denial. Denial to me is abuse too. 'No I/we didn't!'.. cuts as deep as any knife.
Mother...covert narc. Supremely clever at wounding. Sometimes blatant on the biggest ocassions. A paragon of virtue in her own eyes, twinned with a self pitying and denigrating streak when confronted. She lives 3 minutes away. I am in v high stress trying to figure out what to do next now that I have stopped denying what is going on.
Currently she is hoovering like crazy... 3 texts today full of fake loveliness as she knows I am keeping her at arms length ( lied and said have migraine past 3 days..) sure she senses something is amiss!! Florence Nightingale eat your heart out! This from the woman who told me it wasnt her responsibilty to be interested in my 50th birthday, when I complained (on my birthday ???) that she had not even asked me what I was doing for it when she brought my card round the day beforehand, and talked for ages about the wedding she was attending that afternoon of a person I do not even know! V typical for her to blah on about other people and totally ignore my stuff. Sent me a text later that day telling me how lovely the bride looked! Still didnt ask about birthday.
Usually I overlook this stuff but it was something about it being just one day that I hoped to feel special and she used it to wound. Pretty disgusting. She also said her mother never did much for her birthdays and that it was up to my hubby and kids to sort it out...which they had bless them.... she couldnt understand that her love and interested wishes were unique had they been given. Oh yes and she didnt write my name on the card...weird??! Always has before. Just Happy Birthday in great big letters on the front of the envelope.
And this is the problem ... all things that sound soooo trivial and like a spoilt brat wanting attention if I say anything. Talk about a brilliant strategy.
But of course it IS the wounded child...who is poked again and again...and ignored some more and dismissed some more... she hears that.
The adult me is enraged. Will not take it anymore but is so tired and low on energy right now.
Am pretty dumbfounded that its taken me so long but the level of hurt and disappointment explains why I have tried to ignore it and make allowances. Even a part of me now saying oh stop making a fuss but thats them again...aaaagh!!! Im going crazy!!!
Thankyou for reading..xx
Quote from: clarity on July 05, 2017, 06:47:16 PM
Firstly some yukky guilt..about being all over this forum and feeling anxiety about having too much to say and wanting to contribute 'too much'. Urggh.
The journal might help as cannot hijack my own thread! And can splurge here and its ok.
You certainly can splurge all over your own journal! But I haven't noticed you contributing "too much" elsewhere or hijacking threads or "being all over the forum". I do understand sometimes having to write these old messages down to take away their power. From where I'm sitting, they don't sound true.
I don't have any words left for the main content of your post.
:bighug: for your wounded child, and for you too so you have support behind you to help you give something to your inner child(ren), if you need to.
Denial is awful. It's a continuation of the emotional abuse and an add-on to other forms of abuse.
:cheer: for the rage in your Adult person. "Not going to take it anymore" :thumbup: The energy will return, enabling you to do something with this decision. For now, it's good that you've realised it and want to protect yourself from more FOO hurt.
clarity, i've welcomed your posts whenever and wherever i've found them. i don't think they're too much or hijacking at all. i'm glad that you decided to start your own journal, too. it took me a long time to do that, didn't think i needed it. i definitely proved myself wrong. it's been a freeing thing for me.
coming out of denial can sap one's energy. it's difficult work. i hope you can rest a bit, regroup, just let yourself get it back. i'm a birthday person, too, have always worked at making them special for those around me. i get what you're saying about just wanting to feel special that one day a year. me, too. unfortunately, it's rarely happened, so i can totally relate to your disappointment about your mom.
you're moving, clarity, and with movement we have opportunities to heal. big hug to you.
Thankyou for those reassurances peeps...now can you reassure me that I needn't feel guilty that I had to ask for reassurance ( just joking) :excited:... haha such is the inner life. Sigh!
Better day as I woke really early planning( while still half asleep) a cancellation for tomorrow which was obviously really stressing me out. Old patterns which led to me wondering how do we determine when we need to avoid for genuine self care or push through the fear to help learn we can do this thing?? Such a tricky one.. as I am still early in self care mode maybe its about gaining more trust in my own resources whilst safe and the whole going out more thing will come in time.
Quote from: clarity on July 06, 2017, 06:37:10 PM
Old patterns which led to me wondering how do we determine when we need to avoid for genuine self care or push through the fear to help learn we can do this thing?? Such a tricky one..
I hear you. I still have a lot of trouble judging this kind of thing. Even down to: am I really sick physically? Is this cold so bad that I need to lie in bed for a few days? (It was, but I didn't realise that till about the third day.)
glad for the better day, clarity. i think it does take time for us to be able to trust ourselves in order to know when to move, when to stay put. one of the things i've used is the idea of damage. will it damage me to move forward? if not, then it's ok to move. there may be fear, but not damage. i think it's an important to be able to assess that for anything in our lives.
blueberry, i totally relate. i still doubt myself regularly about my physical status. it sucks! still, the more i learn, the more i understand, and, like you, the more i can see what's real and what isn't. it's real.
hugs all around!
Thanks SanM that was a helpful idea about the damage thing... though my IC considers pretty much all emotional discomfort 'damaging'! Its tricky. At the moment I just want to give her so much tlc and if that means staying home Im happy to do that with her. She sure lets me know when I forget about her! Which I love....that we can be in communication seems miraculous to me.
Building dread by the day now as mother is expecting a meetup. Its been over a week, the norm...only have to get through an hour with her which should be ok but feels terrifying now Im out of denial and starting to process again. Not sure what to do yet. All last week I lied and said I had bad hormonal headache!!!
Getting relief from my art, piano, garden and self care. I'm so much further than I was a few years ago. Grateful for that. And its amazing to have the forum to spur me on... I so want to handle NM differently. WE want that....ah no IC says she wants to run a million miles away and never see her again! :stars:
good luck with making that decision, clarity. i don't know if you've thought of going lc or nc with her or not. maybe just a break to get some clarity. i've done this with several people in my past - told them that i just need a 6-mo. break, i've got stuff i need to figure out. it was helpful for me.
best to you with this. the idea that meeting with your m is terrifying is a big red flag to me that something different needs to be done. i have no doubt you'll figure out what's best for you. big hug.
Thanks san :wave: will be working on the LC thing. Its so hard with her just 3 mins away! but determined to put myself first. there have been sooo many of these 'last straw' type of scenarios where I say 'right that's IT'... but have always relapsed back into approval seeking without realising. Its so easy to dress that up as 'being loving' isn't it... :doh: then there is the 'she is getting old' guilt card.. Inner critic likes to stab me with that one too. Inner child thank goodness pipes up - hey!! she has always done it!!
Had a huge surge of absolute grief and hatred last night after a couple of vodkas. Hubby was hoping for some physical closeness... I was still in freeze despite the alcohol ( it used to work quite well, not any more) ... and I had a thought flash into my head '' I wish she was dead''. It shocked me to the core, but also released a tidal wave of emotion... don't think I have wailed like that before. I allowed myself to wish it. And am still acknowledging the level of pain and stress that would make me feel like this. And right now don't even feel guilty, just angry... god bless Pete for the 'righteous anger' thing... it helps so much.
I could tell the crying was cathartic. Went on for about 15 minutes. So very dazed today.
A new buried phrase surface yesterday ... remembered that my Father would say ''You've done that?' when I showed him something I'd made/written sometimes...he was incredibly passive aggressive and enabled my mother, they both scapegoated me from the age of about 8/9. I was bullied at school at that age.. was the new kid in a tiny school... ganged up on and ignored and called names for a while. I didn't tell a soul. Was shattered...had gentle confidence up to that point ( outwardly) that then vanished. I didn't even think about telling my parents. Not for a second. They didn't ask me what was wrong despite my becoming very withdrawn at home. They started to be irritated with me for not being the happy little girl any more... after that it went steadily downhill. Teenage years were a nightmare. Felt like dirt under their shoes.
Anyway, today I made cards and the colours of the paint filled me with so much joy... :cheer:
Had wonderful food to eat, and spent time with my animals and in the garden... I am so blessed....and feel victorious that she has not crushed my spirit.. despite all of her efforts... and she never will!!!! :fireworks:
Quote from: clarity on July 09, 2017, 05:10:24 PM
Anyway, today I made cards and the colours of the paint filled me with so much joy... :cheer:
Had wonderful food to eat, and spent time with my animals and in the garden... I am so blessed....and feel victorious that she has not crushed my spirit.. despite all of her efforts... and she never will!!!! :fireworks:
:cheer: :cheer: Way to go! You sound so strong, determined, upbeat. :fireworks:
Feeling ashamed of my trivial little moans when people on this forum suffered so many more terrible terrible things. They (foo) always said I was over sensitive and it makes me think they were/are right.
If not for the birth rejection and knowledge that first two years of my life M had severe pnd and almost had electric shock treatment and I was alone with her 80% of the time those 2 yrs..probably that screwed up my brain to begin with. Im ashamed of being angry and posting rants when people here are so triggered by anger. Worrying about things I write. Ashamed of needing reassurance. And for writing this but also know I have to confront and be honest about this stuff or I will never progress beyond the stuck person in so many ways that I am. Am so good at talking the spin.. geeing myself up, pretending that its all ok. Its not ok. I am so lonely and so small... recognising just now that this is ef territory...but feelings are so default it just seems normal. Am I bpd but somewhat recovered...probably.
Oh! I see what just happened. I took the positive comment and made it mean that my pain wasnt seen or heard. The 'happy girl' I went into at the end of my last post.. it was triggering for me when the focus was on that. Thats awful!! Even though when I wrote it I felt lifted. Oh dear...will have to ponder on this.
Thankyou blueberry....im such a big mess tonight!
I'm sorry that I focussed on the positive, or didn't at least mention what all you'd been going through beforehand. I don't think that what you suffered and continue to suffer is trivial at all! It was more a reflection of where I am today and how much I can give or not. And also my own joy at reading about colours and animals and garden because these three things all bouy me up too.
I don't think there's any rule here against being angry or posting rants. If you're worried about triggering other people, you could put *TW Anger* the top of the post. There are going to be other people on here with anger, like me, but when I try and write about it, it disappears. I don't think I get triggered by an angry post, so long as it's not directed at me. Which your last post isn't either, don't worry. :hug:
i don't think they're trivial either, clarity. the name of your journal says it all. there are no comparisons here. if you hurt, you hurt, and that's valid.
i can relate to the pain and anger of your thought about your m. i've had that same thing go thru my mind about my daughter. not a nice way for a mom to think, but there it is. sometimes the pain had gotten so intense, that's all i could think of. either her or me, but i have another daughter to think of, so i kept finding ways to stick around.
people here can get triggered by anything - we never know what it might be. i would hate for you to edit yourself because of a fear that someone else may have a difficult time with it. within the guidelines, we are safe to care for ourselves as best we can, and respect that others can as well.
it sounds like you're doing some of the tough work of recovery. as difficult and painful as it may be at times, as someone has said many times, the only way out is through. we'll get through this. we've all got each other. big hug.
What beautiful people you are... thank you so very much for those replies. It makes me well up that this love and compassion is so simple and direct...these conversations help me figure out so much, they are what I always craved and knew should be happening from being so young. I knew they worked without ever having any!.... just instinct. That we all found our way here for it, is pure grace.
Blueberry...m could never say sorry. Thankyou for that...tho I didnt feel you were doing anything 'wrong'and was just in a reaction which I know you know!( this stuff gets so complicated sometimes?!) Great idea re the tw warning...thankyou! :hug:
San...I relate to this. Its sometimes just deep instinct at survival level I think that we are threatened energetically and on all levels and it kicks in and those thoughts are the result. Its biology ;) I believe.
Starting my day brightened by both your understandings.... :cheer:
THANKYOOO!!! :wave:xx
Quote from: clarity on July 09, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
They (foo) always said I was over sensitive...
:roll: Straight out of
The Narcissist's Handbook, clarity, along with "you've always had a vivid imagination" and other nasties.
Quote... and it makes me think they were/are right.
That's what they
wanted you to believe, because it served their bullying agenda.
QuoteIm ashamed of being angry and posting rants ...
Ashamed of needing reassurance...
And for writing this...
What they instilled in you was
toxic shame. https://psychcentral.com/lib/what-is-toxic-shame/ The normal variant, when you punch a smaller kid on the nose and steal his ice-cream, is healthy and life-enhancing. The toxic kind makes any smidgeon of life satisfaction virtually impossible.
Quoterecognising just now that this is ef territory...
That's a good insight. Stay with it!
Quote... but feelings are so default it just seems normal.
Yep, a belief is just something we keep thinking. Practising more life-enhancing beliefs about ourselves feels unnatural and even 'too hard' at first, but like any habit it can become the default eventually.
Would you consider making a list of everything They taught you about yourself? You can then go through it line by line and start crossing out the things that simply aren't true. Post it here if you like, and we'll help you see all the evidence to the contrary.
Thank you Candid :hug:... gosh a list.
let's see....off the top of my head -
you are lazy
you are disgusting
you are immoral
you are a lost cause
you are such a disappointment
you have a freaky body
you may be clever but you are not clever enough
your bright ideas are ridiculous
you are an absolute nuisance
we tolerate you on a good day
you are so embarrassing
you don't fit in anywhere
you are selfish
you are unlovable
you are dull, dull, dull
you are too serious and should lighten up
you think you are better than everyone else
Yuk. So a lifetime so far battling those beliefs and gradually seeing and knowing that they are complete lies.
I had a similar epiphany to Pete W about 6 years ago when I stopped in my tracks one day and realised 'there is nothing wrong with me, and there never was!' ... which was an amazing moment. Even so, the inner critic remains, though far weaker, and the feelings in the body can still be so strong. It's infuriating sometimes.
I managed to put m off to the end of the week. Which I was quite proud of as felt v guilty. Hubby is anxious that I will 'get sucked back in'. I will do my very best not to be.... in fact, I'll do more than that... I will refuse to be. She has now stopped hoovering and is in her silent wounded phase... whatever!!!
Clarity,
I am so proud of you for writing that list, and recognizing that it is them speaking not what it actually true. I would like to assure you that none of that is true of you. I understand that battle so greatly, and this might inspire me to write a list when I am ready.
I wish I could comfort your inner child and tell her none of that is true. I wish you so much luck and compassion for your journey :hug:
:hug: :cheer:
Great job acknowledging the untruth of those messages! in my experience, re-framing them has been key to overcoming them. For instance, in my family an unspoken rule was "don't cry/don't show emotions". So my rewriting of this "rule" is, I am free to show emotions whenever i want. Another one was "others come first", the rewritten version is "my health and safety come first".
This was an exercise given to me by one of my first therapists, 30 years ago, and it works to this day. :heythere:
Quote from: clarity on July 11, 2017, 04:49:14 PM
I will do my very best not to be.... in fact, I'll do more than that... I will refuse to be. She has now stopped hoovering and is in her silent wounded phase... whatever!!!
love your determination, clarity!! :thumbup: cheering you on from afar :cheer: :cheer:
i love the strength you showed in changing that statement into a powerful 'i refuse' statement. well done!
by the by, i don't see you on that list, not from what i've read that you've posted, either about yourself or toward others. your creativity is incredible, and the work you've done here for yourself and toward others negates those statements outright.
keep at it, clarity. you are worth your own effort. big hug.
My list is similar, clarity.
You are lazy.
You are selfish.
You're always causing trouble.
You're unlovable.
We're happier when you're not around.
You always take everything so seriously.
Now for the take-home message I got from CBT: look for evidence to the contrary.
I've always been a good employee.
I enjoy helping others.
I ask for too little!
I make friends wherever I go.
I got out of your life, so stop following me, sister!
I have a great sense of humour.
Thankyou lovely people :hug:
V tough mixture of feelings pre meet up with NM... narc soup!
Tired even beforehand... probably takes a lot of energy being in dread.
Love your revised list Candid!.... will have a go at mine soon.
San my creativity was dismissed and ignored by both parents so your words mean the world.....thankyou x
I handled yesterday quite well. Managed to cancel the meetup as I felt so stressed about it, but whereas I would usually display my frailty and tell her I was not well, I turned it into 'Im just tired as I've been so busy doing lots of socialising'! This flummoxed her, and gave me some power. I then rang her later. I wrote myself a note and put it in front of me ... 'REVEAL NOTHING! ' It really helped, and I fielded her off at every question, could hear the puzzlement in her voice as my answers were so different. She played the wounded card herself trying to get my sympathy as I expected she would. I was jolly, upbeat, not letting her push me back into the usual role of poorly misfit. I was euphoric afterwards and rest of the night felt really happy and relieved. I agreed to call in and see her next week sometimes... kept that vague.
Today I am so low. Exhausted. Maybe I tried too hard. Supposed to be having day out with hubby but too tired to go. Didn't expect to feel like this though I should know better!! trying not to project too far ahead, but hard to not dread the years to come when I'll have to keep up the charade.
Also realised something quite big ..... that for the first time yesterday I was able to lie to her without feeling bad about it. In the moment I was more concerned with protecting myself and IC than being honest and truthful with her. That was quite huge for me. I can see that I crave that realness and connection ( which is what this forum provides, miracle) and have been reaching out with my heart open for these past 5 years ... did I think I could fix her with my love?? I think I did. The awful AWFUL truth is that I cannot and it totally breaks my heart. My father died when I was in my early twenties. It saved my life I think. To just have half of the crud to deal with. I went to him in floods of tears in his last weeks and begged him to tell me what I had done wrong, there must be something I did I sobbed ..... he got really angry and told me not to be stupid and I left in bigger floods than when I arrived. So there was not even a hint of reconciliation. He could not even give me that on his deathbed.
Anyway, I digress! I guess today is just about holding IC with her grief as she is realising that she never had and will never have a mother who knows her, sees her, loves her. I wish there was a switch somewhere I could just flick, to turn off the need and desire for that bond to exist.
I'm sorry you didn't get any replies when you were feeling so bad. I don't remember seeing your post, but looking at it now it has a very upbeat feel to it. You saw your mother and you enforced some boundaries. I envy that!
QuoteYes this is a baby screaming why is nobody there????? What did I do??
This is like when you went to your father and asked him what you'd done wrong. The answer is "nothing". As you get stronger here you'll look over this thread and see how far you've come towards
not assuming you're a bad egg who offends and annoys everywhere she goes. I know from experience, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It makes us awkward and demanding company.
I've been looking out for you and songbirdrosa because the three of us have similar issues.
By the way, there's a subforum called
Just having a bad day that's monitored daily. That's the place to post when you really need a quick response.
QuoteI can see that I crave that realness and connection ( which is what this forum provides, miracle) and have been reaching out with my heart open for these past 5 years ... did I think I could fix her with my love?? I think I did. The awful AWFUL truth is that I cannot and it totally breaks my heart.
I hear you, clarity. I really do. I kept going back to my mother and
trying harder :roll: until a horrific Last Straw in 1991. In my heart I still wish she would reach out to me, explain herself, say she's sorry, and make it all right. At some point we have to realise out mothers can't be what they are not. It isn't anyone's fault, certainly not ours.
You experienced the exhaustion of a triumph yesterday, although I understand it wasn't the triumph you wanted. You wanted something that
should have been much easier: your mother's love and reassurance. Instead, you accepted facts and adjusted your behaviour around her to avoid further pain.
In days to come you'll realize you had no choice, and did what you had to do with grace and style. :bighug:
Candid you're a gem...and my post which I thought better of and deleted, somehow found you and your reply is so wise and helpful. Thankyou....
Its the contradiction of emotions that is so confusing and exhausting. Recovery though great in so many ways is damned by the flashbacks...its like being jekyl and hyde and so hyper aware of it. The lows feel deeep...by contrast I suppose to the better moments.
Anyway somehow the baby was helped by my posting and went back to sleep, so then I fekt more rational and I deleted while she snored. I am trying so hard to diffuse that emotion in softer ways.
Thanks for reminder re difficult day section.
And for being the hand of friendship... it means a lot.
Clarity, your first paragraph about cancelling the meet-up and then phoning and revealing nothing, answering questions in a way your M would not expect of you - WOW :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Way to go!
I also know the feeling of making progress of that type and then falling back again. Either being exhausted or questioning myself and getting into endless discussions with myself in my head. The Empire Strikes Back effect. With further healing, it can lessen, but in my case it has taken an awful lot of further healing to do so. Hope it's faster in your case!
Like Candid I know well keeping hoping M or F or some other family member might change. In fact it was Candid who coached me out of writing to any FOO members after a big blow-up last summer. Not re-contacting about it has certainly been a good decision. (Thanks, Candid. :hug: )
Sorry I didn't see your post yesterday. I did read on here but was skimming. Maybe I saw your first paragraph only. :hug:
Such a :fallingbricks: day today.
Realised something just now - that I have a really terrible response to cancelling things because during my depression years I self isolated so much and felt so much deep shame about it ( missed most of my Uni time this way) that I associate 'not doing' things as a failure. This is obviously a catch 22 as to recover from cptsd we must learn to self care which involves cancelling things while you learn how not to arrange them in the first place!!??!!!
I also realised today that basically I am sitting in my house, hiding from my mother.
Good grief Charlie Brown :doh: :doh: :doh:
Standing right beside you, Clarity.
Big thankyou blueberry... :heythere:
o clarity, i have no doubt you'll figure out the best way for you in this situation. you'll also figure out all that stuff regarding when to go ahead with plans, when to not, when to cancel and all the why's behind them. i think you're beginning to sparkle in your realizations. and, sometimes we just need to hide. i've been doing that today.
keep taking care of you as best you can. i think you're doing great. big hug.
Escaped again with interesting consequences.
Didnt contact NM as promised. Was putting it off. She rang and hubby answered it. He was so great with the whole 'Reveal Nothing' plan. She harped on about how Ive been different since my birthday and repeated it was not her responsibility etc and was me me me me. Could hear her tone uggh. He said I was sleeping..would tell me she'd called.
Afterwards I was unsettled. I called her. Uurrgh. I played innocent. I told lies...Ive a bad head, Ive been sooo busy working, of course things are ok. She didnt mention the birthday thing. Was sickly sweet..a whole other person than the one 10 minutes previously. Said a couple of times how worried shes been ...I didnt bite.
She is away now for 3 days. Feels like a blessed relief. Space. Time to think.
Ive only used this strategy twice and tho it works it has a limited lifespan. She is on the case. She knows... its like fending off a tiger with a chair.
Decided that I have to ignore the anxiety and see her in person to find out wether I can stay in Reveal Nothing then... can I really manage the act...it seems impossible... slight chance I might be able to.
Im so pissed that my time, my life is infiltrated by this horsedung.
I HAVE BETTER THINGS to do with my existence!!!!!!! But this is still only 2.5 months since I came out of denial. Patience my dear, patience.
:blink:
patience, indeed, clarity. you'll get there.
have you thought about the notion of no contact with her? has it crossed your mind? i only mention it because you said it was such a relief for her to be gone for 3 days. i know that when i've gone nc with someone, i immediately felt that relief (even if it was colored by other emotions, like guilt, sadness, shame, etc.). still, feeling relieved let me know that i was doing the right thing. the other emotions were old messages.
you're doing really well with all this, clarity. it's a huge boulder to push up that hill time and time again. i think that when you're ready, you'll decide you really do have better things to do with your life, and you'll let that boulder go. it wasn't your job to begin with.
keep taking care of you as best you can. big hug, my dear.
Thankyou so much San.. I have yes, just the fact she lives just minutes away and the fallout seems too big at the moment.
May be heading that way at some point though.
My two siblings I don't see. One NC, the other sided with her since and that is fair enough.
Black sheep extraordinaire!!
Summer is so hard. Happy families seem everywhere... in all the neighbours gardens. Sighhhhhh.
Really appreciate your encouragement :hug:
Quote from: clarity on July 22, 2017, 06:38:22 PM
My two siblings I don't see. One NC, the other sided with her since and that is fair enough.
Black sheep extraordinaire!!
Ow. Me too.
As sanmagic7 wrote, there's great relief in the decision not to play the game any more. All those fibs, excuses and delaying tactics take their toll.
Hi Clarity,
I was looking for you in the forum, as you sent me a PM on 22nd July, and I didn't realise that till a week later, and when I tried to reply, I see you may no longer be 'active' in the forum? I couldn't send you a reply. I just wanted to say that I hope you're ok, and if you do pop back to the forum, then please let me know - as I'd like to reply to your message. I appreciated it.
Take care,
Hope :)