Out of the Storm

Hello all,

Long story short, assassination of my character is in full swing at my workplace. Crazymaking by ex - my asking how he was doing started with him abusing me, a huge argument, and ended with a psychologist calling me to make an appointment to assess my mental health  ???

The behaviour of several people has changed toward me. It is avoidant and cautious.

So. I refuse to run away. This is my workplace, my career, my reputation. These are my colleagues, and friends being turned against me. I do not and will not accept this.

I do have a plan to work through this in non confrontational way, and my therapist is on my side with the plan. They have noted that this guy is a possible sociopath.

Right now my reputation is going down hill, and I expect it to continue until people have seen enough of me, and continue to see me, to question what they have heard.

Has anybody else had experience in this area? Any words of wisdom for working through this and coming out the victor?

Yes.
Not from an ex.  I'd tread very warily.   It might pay to look up bully-online to check out the tactics that may be being used now or in the future, also for advice for how to deal with it.  It's great that your are onto this at an early stage and commiserate with the pain of former friends backing away.  I admire your fortitude.  Take care XX

Hi Contessa,  :wave:

I can't say I have any good ideas. Character assassination is something I have experienced in my FOO, but I have never been able to successfully thwart it. That's why I'm here, I suppose.

Quote from: Contessa on September 10, 2016, 10:54:34 PM
So. I refuse to run away. This is my workplace, my career, my reputation. These are my colleagues, and friends being turned against me. I do not and will not accept this.

I do have a plan to work through this in non confrontational way, and my therapist is on my side with the plan. They have noted that this guy is a possible sociopath.

This all sounds excellent. The support from your T is great, and probably it's a good idea to keep her well in the loop. And to discuss with her when and where the plan needs to be adjusted. Because it will have to be adjusted, as new developments arise. These changes might be subtle, or large, and at times new developments will tell you both: "Right! We stick to our plan. This is what we expected."

I recently saw a VLOG titled "Give the narcissist sociopath enough rope and he'll hang himself". The content of the video is irrelevant to your case, but I think the title is. And I know this from personal experience, though only in hindsight.
It's all the 'tells' that my DramaMama has given me because I was avoidant and 'meek' at the time and let her ramble on, that in the end provided me with all the clues I needed to tell she's a HPD.
Probably the sociopath at work will do the same for your colleagues to notice. If they will notice his 'tells' or not... not much you can do to influence that.

This Vlog might actually have some bearing on what you will be going through the next period:
When Dealing with a Narcissist Sociopath, Patience Is More Than Virtue. It's Strategy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAQWQCdttac)
edited to add the subtitle of the vid is:
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Which fits with your "non-confrontational" plan, I think. 15:55 (16:20) to 19:40 may fit into the strategy you've drawn up, and may be predictive of what will happen.  :Idunno:

Wishing you well, and please do post any updates if you feel it will aid you in this smear campaign he's pulling on you.

Thank you so much guys! All of this started because I stood up for myself. That's it. If there is an issue I address it. I'm not used to keeping quiet.

I have a superior colleague keeping an eye/ear out for things that may be happening, though there will be little chance of hearing anything much. His direct manager has gone from being nice to me one day, to not the next. So I've asked my colleague to keep an ear out for anything that might be communicated from her. I obviously cannot approach his manager, as this will confirm my 'crazyness' with her.

My superior colleague has noted his aggressively defensive nature in meetings, so she can see that my concerns have a legitimate basis. I also have a friend who's aiding me to keep socially present with my friends and colleagues. I ask her not only to keep me in the loop, but arrange certain social gatherings with particular people present. This to me is the most important part, I have to stay involved with as many people as possible so they can get to know me from me (not him) and have a reasonable chance to question what they are hearing when my behaviour does not match what he has described to them. I have already failed with that argument that we had, it just gave him more fuel against me.

This is not easy, being emotionally and socially abused by him in private, then in the next day or so hear from one of my close friends that "he has asked after me and just wants me to get better, and wishes things weren't awkward between us". I'm not sick, I'm being abused.

Will update you all, and especially thank you for those links Dutch Uncle. It is indeed a subtle game. I'm just recovering from a huge episode (caused by him), and so my change in behaviour - being more socially involved and temperamentally positive - is an anomaly right now. Unfortunately, it is my natural, non-PTSD temperament. Unfortunate because nobody in this work place has ever seen this. My T and I both agree that this new behaviour of mine must stay consistent. Though given that this is my natural behaviour, its not too hard too keep up with.

Its odd. I feel like the only way I can survive this is to 'not be traumatised' if that makes sense. I have to stay level, I have to take the higher road, I have to stay present, I have to stay immersed in social culture. If I withdraw, he wins. If i'm triggered, he wins. Oddly, this negative event is helping me to find myself again...

Quote from: Contessa on September 11, 2016, 02:22:20 PM
All of this started because I stood up for myself.
[...]
Oddly, this negative event is helping me to find myself again...

I can relate.
It's hard to get this backlash for doing so, but I firmly belief it's the one step forward that will reap so much rewards in the (distant) future, that no matter how this will turn out, it will have been worth it.

Of course the rewards will pour in sooner than you expect.  ;D :fingers crossed:

:hug:

Radical, yes thank you too. Have been researching quite a bit.

Another strange thing, this type of bullying was something I was passionate about in my classroom. If I caught a hint of this happening with any of my students, all lessons would stop, and would not start again until those kids knew to not only stop the bullying, but do whatever they could to redeem themselves to the victim. At the end of the year I was complimented by staff and parents for how emotionally and socially well adjusted and stable my kids were. And now I'm the victim of the very thing I despise... Its a weird place to be I tell you.

I feel for you. 
My sister was disabled and endured such cruel bullying in school.  Like you I have always despised bullying.  Good for you making the classroom a safe place for everyone.  It would have made a difference to so many children, and I really wish more teachers understood, intervened and educated their students.

For me, it instilled a lifelong fear of being ostracised, and afraid of incurring the wrath of a group.  My bullying experience was intense because we were building a community, and I was being set-up to be mobbed by the entire group by a malignant narc who had taken control.  Being rejected triggered more than I could cope with.  I knew I had to walk into it and keep establishing an alternative view of who I was, but I became too depressed and withdrew.  I couldn't bear my closest friend refusing to even say hello, people believing the lies, seeing people I cared about back off, not even want to sit near me, or be seen to be associating with me.  My worst fear was coming true before my eyes and I couldn't respond, I was paralysed by it.

You are doing all the right things and I really admire your strength and clarity. :hug:

Dutch Uncle,

Just watched the Vlog. The salient point that I have now learnt the hard way, is to not just go no contact with the narc, but refuse to defend yourself against the accusations, from them or anyone else. I understand completely what Annabel Lee means by that.

Thank you again radical. Very sorry to hear about what you have experienced. Absolutely disgusting. About to have my first day teaching in a few months tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

In the latest news, a friend connected to this guy is not even trying to pretend to be polite to me anymore. Its strange playing dumb to something that is so obvious, I dare not ask if something is the matter. Oh well, onward and hopefully upward.

Update:

Its been about two weeks now and things are settling. The initial phase of "people not talking to me" has settled into its routine. I have persistently kept up the pretense that I know nothing, and have continued to behave toward those that changed their behaviour to me, the same as usual.

The guy who wasn't pretending to be nice to me, is now being somewhat diplomatic. At times I can feel a hint of warmness.
Another guy who had the awkward smile and giggle when I said hello to him, is now getting more comfortable with my greetings, and has started to look, smile and wave to me as I approach him.
Neither of them make an effort to make contact with me, and I have still not been included in anything social around here by them, but that's okay. Its  a small step forward.

Opportunistically, I have spent a few hours chatting with the girl whom the douche was working on while seeing me, and there appear to have been some very loaded topics of conversation on both our parts which touch on the unspoken with this guy / our values in general. The values I expressed, and the behaviour I have presented around other people in her presence, in no way align to what has been projected onto me by the douche. I have even offered her a professional heads up. She is very young and therefore naive in some respects, which explains why she has been sucked in by him. It seems though, that she is keen to see for herself what I am like and make up her own mind, and I know she is very capable of that. Again, small steps, but its a step forward.

The douche seems to now be spending minimal time here at the office - although I have had other things happening too so cannot be entirely sure of his movements. More importantly, I do not care. Tomorrow night, though, a very good friend of mine has invited us both to a social gathering, the friend I introduced each other too, and the douche is apparently going to be in attendance. I'm hoping he has actually done his usual thing of telling friends he is free and willing to hang out without any intention of showing up. It will remain to be seen. Whatever happens, I'm going to be hanging out with my buddy tomorrow night and will enjoy the catch up.

I will triumph.

 :thumbup: and  :applause:

:heythere:

Massive Kudos, Contessa.
And thanks for making me smile ;)

Thank you Dutch Uncle and Radical. I do feel so much more at ease and in control of myself now. If he does show up tomorrow I am looking forward owning the room and making more friends. He can just deal with it, or not, as the case may be.

So the party happened, the douche did show up, and last night I did own the room like I planned.

Our mutual friends - the ones he used to bag out to me in private months ago, and for one social gathering I organised a few months ago he wanted cancelled because he didn't want to spend his time associating with those space cadets/retards/psychologically screwed up people - stepped out for a little bit before he arrived. He saw me, we both did not acknowledge each other's existence, and he immediately asked after those friends, inquiring as to whether they were there, or were coming. He seemed very anxious to hang out with them, and when they did eventually come back, he did. All night. And treated them like his best buddies.

He spoke to my buddy, kept his back to me the entire time, and eventually pulled him away to another table, away from me and my buddy's wife, where there was obviously plenty of room to sit. So when my buddy's wife got a drink, I did not engage in conversation with these two. When she came back, I took the opportunity to fill her in on plenty of details about the douche (including what he said about on of their friends the last time we all hung out), and she decided then and there that after last night, she and her husband were no longer going to be friends with the douche. She also told me she thought he was a *** the last time they met anyway.

So after I pulled my buddy back into a conversation with me and his wife, and I worked the room and made friends with all of his other buddies, the douche had no option but to hang out with the former 'retards', now best friends of his. He also had the option to talk to my buddy's buddy's girlfriends, but remembering his attitude toward me as a woman, the idea of getting into conversation with them might have been a repulsive option.

I also interacted with other patrons of the bar we were at, as well as bar staff in an overtly friendly manner, which is something i don't normally do. I was determined to be friends with everybody in the room, haha.

We had a little power play against each other later in the night, just a little one. Might explain later, but its not necessary at the moment. Plus I can't be bothered - this whole recounting minute details of every story is very tiresome to me, and it makes me feel just as big an insecure narcissist/mean person/gossip like he is. So I won't get into it. I said to the former 'space cadet' that I was having a great time and loving life in general with his inquiry, which was immediately followed by the douche telling my buddy that he was going well but went through a some kind of awful rough patch a few weeks ago which was unsettling and distressing (meaning our particular argument and everything that happened around it).

As I was leaving with another bunch of people, he left with his new 'best friends'. He only talked to one of my buddy's friends all night. I also had my buddy with me most of the night too, so their time together was somewhat minimal. I do not feel triumphant here, I feel just as big a manipulator by recounting this story back, but that was not really the case. He came nowhere near me all night, whereas I moved in and out of the room with various groups of people throughout the night, including his little group at times. I would even interrupt his conversation from across the room by pulling faces with the guy he was talking to. I was just there to catch up with my friend, our mutual friends, and meet his friends, which is what I did.

But there it is. I have no idea if/what would happen with the my friend's wife and her husband/my buddy, but I will be interested to know if anything comes of it.

I'll admit, this was tiresome to write. It felt like a child telling stories about a kid in class because they just don't like them, and will find any excuse to rub their name in the dirt. And I'm not okay with that. I just want to get on with my life without this stupidity and abuse. I feel like I am the abuser now. But I thought i'd follow up with how this thing went if it is of any interest / use for anyone else here.

Take care all, and hopefully this is near the end of the ridiculous drama.

for your sake, i hope so as well.  i, for one, am glad that you rose above your 'character assassination', survived it, and ended up thriving, rekindling friendships along the way.  as far as relating this story, maybe it needed to come out in order to be laid to rest.  it's done now, you've made it, and forward ho! 

Okay, so I am not out of the woods yet. Didn't think I would be.

Turns out the 'space cadet' is hosting a massive barbeque tomorrow, and absolutely everyone has been invited. Everyone but me.
My friend has asked whether I can come along, and he has told her to invite me herself, he's too busy to do it, etc. Given that he has taken the time to return several messages to her, and not spend less effort actually inviting me himself, this tells me i'm still well ant truly in the red.

Sigh. This is very frustrating.

This guy has always been nice to me. Do you think it is worth touching base with him to ask if everything is okay?

Who is 'Space Cadet'?

If I was specifically not invited by the host, I wouldn't go.  For me, and it's just a personal opinion, even though the guy prevaricated when your friend asked, he's made it pretty clear he doesn't want you there.  I assume he is a friend or associate of the narc?

Where narcs are concerned it's never over simply and cleanly.  You've done brilliantly in rising above and presenting an alternative picture to the one he is painting.  It will probably be an ongoing situation, but hopefully one that most people will keep out of.  It hurts being left out, and there will probably be more difficult situations you'll need to ride out before the bullying drops to a background simmer (with luck).

I hope it goes away completely, but ime, narcs never play fair.  I believe it is important to not buy into any kind of win/lose dynamic because, you wouldn't want to be the kind of person who could beat a narc at this own game. And that's got nothing to do with intellect, which I'm sure you have over him in spades.

Thanks, my feelings exactly radical. I do not turn up to places I am not invited.

"Space Cadet" is a guy I had to hear many nasty things about from the narc/sociopath when we were together. He is a lovely guy, and I like him. The narc/douche tried to get me to cancel his birthday drinks because the 'space cadet' was one of the few "idiots" going. All of those "idiots" (my friends, people I like and stood up for to him) are now being turned against me.

So yes, it is ubelievably clear that he has now been turned. This whole thing is ridiculous and disappointing. But most of all dangerous. And its clear that I won't be winning this fight any time soon.

Do you have any advice radical? Its just horrible. This kind of behaviour has always disgusted me when I would catch wind of it in my classroom. Unfortunately, there aren't really any teachers to nip these things when you're an adult.

It's a really difficult situation, I know.

One of the most painful things for me was finding that people I'd gone out of my way to help were usually the first to turn, I suspect this is related to the same vulnerability in them, that led to my going out of my way for them, but in particular cases, it hurt like *. 

Looking back with a bit of distance, I now see that many who withdrew didn't do so because they had necessarily come to believe the smears, but because they feared the viciousness they recognised in the smearer.  These people probably felt bad about being aloof and rejecting, though I doubt they gave the situation too much thought.  If I'd been able to do as you are doing, I'm sure things would have returned to normal eventually, and it would have been a bit of a relief all round.  It felt personal, but it really wasn't.  The key would have been not taking it personally.   Also, other than close established friends, I think it's important to bad-mouth him.  People without conscience are shockingly good at manipulating situations to make themselves appear to be the victim, which is where my situation ended-up, not by 'returning fire', but by speaking out about the abuse to just a few people. 

Part of the dynamic is about things that have nothing to do with particular people.  Huge sums of money, as well as time and effort were involved.  I posed no actual threat to people, their money, the group or the project.  If cornered the narc would have had no qualms about taking everything and everyone down with her.  I believe there is an awareness, though not necessarily a conscious one, of threat, and of the danger of messing with ruthless people. 

I think what you are doing is the right thing.  It's a difficult middle ground, but maintaining your own dignity and integrity, not taking things personally when they aren't about you personally, being friendly and continuing to behave as what you are, someone with nothing to be ashamed or afraid of,  is the best way to starve the situation of oxygen over time, and also prevents inadvertently giving the creep ammunition to use against you.

The other thing is also hard, without becoming paranoid, don't ever forget the nature of the beast you are dealing with.  Don't underestimate what he is capable of.  If you keep your head you can watch.  Being smarter than him, as long as you stay calm you can probably keep a couple of steps ahead most of the time. 

Part of my story, is that for about eight months I was able to do this, sit back and watch, but that's mainly because i was already gone in my head.  No way was I going to remain in a feifdom she controlled. Getting out set things off again, is another story in itself.  but the good news is I got every penny out despite being contracted-in.  The next target has already tentatively re-established friendly relations.  The story is not over, but it's not my story anymore. 

Thank you so much Radical. Your no nonsense response has put me at ease :)

I think you may be right about fearing the viciousness of the smears. The odd thing is, I had to listen to him smear all of these people to me, the ones he's now pretending to be friends with. That's one of the hardest things. I know the game he's playing, and the people he's deluding.

I am picking and choosing where I tell it like it is, because I am starting to fear that I project paranoia. In fact I contacted 'space cadet' (sigh) and he seemed to have genuinely forgot to invite me. It is clear to me that the seed of insecurity regarding who are and who are not my friends has been set. For every instance where I have been bad mouthed, there could be one or more where I haven't, and this insecurity runs the danger of me digging my own grave.

That said, I have told a few people about the abuse, so hopefully that should be enough. Meanwhile I have to keep playing it cool, and figure out what to do when the abusive intuition (and possible paranoia) kick in. Still its not a full on anxiety attack any more, so I guess its an improvement.

I'm sorry that you have been through this too, but thank you thank you thank you for your wise advice. You have definitely said the right thing to settle me.  :hug:

Hi Contessa, I see the day has already passed by but wanted to ask what you decided to do or not do?

Hi Annakoen,
I am fluffing about a bit here I know. I did contact 'space cadet' (how I hate calling him that), because in truth he is exactly like his namesake. If he wasn't, I wouldn't have. It was a genuine case of forgetfulness, and he is non the wiser I believe to all of this drama. Most of all he has always been lovely to me, so his response to my inquiry, thankfully, was as lovely as usual.

I do take every situation as it comes, and every person as they come. So the above course of action would not have gone down as well with someone else.

So I did make an appearance. And it was good.

Are you going through something similar Annakoen?

I just wanted to say that bullying does induce a kind of paranoia.  You are genuinely under attack, but there is so much you can't know.  It is very much part of the gaslighting of covert abuse and hard to rise above.  It can provoke you react in ways that reinforce the false picture that is being painted.

Don't be hard on yourself, Contessa, because you are doing really well in incredibly stressful circumstances :hug:

personally, if he told your friend to ask you herself, it sounds like it's ok.  so, if she's asked you and if you want to go, then go.  if it feels right at the party, maybe you want to talk to him.  the whole thing sounds awkward to me, like he feels awkward inviting you himself.  i don't know the politics there, or the hierarchy, if he's afraid of blatantly asking you because the other guy might be upset, or what the complexities of all of it might be.  i'm just sorry you've been put in such an uncomfortable position in all this.  sucks.

Thank you Radical. I do feel that paranoia at times and can struggle with keeping calm.

I don't pretend to know what is happening exactly, or being said, thought or felt by other people. I don't put words into other people's mouths either. But I do know how to read behaviour, I know what I have experienced and witnessed this bully do in the past, and what it did to others. Sometimes I feel I know too much to play ignorant. But thank you for reinforcing that I am okay :)

Sanmagic, thank you as well. Yes that issue has been settled in good time, and is now behind us. With this guy, things are very very simple, so it was cleared up quickly. But yes, it is uncomfortable, and tough constantly thinking of all the possible/probable steps that have occurred behind the scenes, and then adjusting my behaviour accordingly to attempt quashing whatever those unseen/unheard things were as innocently as possible. Its absolutely ridiculous.

Please keep the positive reinforcement coming! For any time I have begun to entertain the idea of defeat, there is always another message from you to get me back on track.

:heythere:

I have also been re-reading several posts by you Sanmagic and Radical, in a greater state of calm than with the first reading. Such amazing insight that only experience can possibly give you. A blessing and a curse.

ya know, in situations like this i wonder if 'paranoia' is really the correct term?  if there is truly a danger lurking, or a real possibility of such, i don't think you're paranoid, but being practical about looking out for yourself.  your intuition, or your gut feeling, i believe in them.  if they're sending you messages of possible danger, who's to say that's not true?  when i feel ill at ease in a situation, i believe there's a reason for it.   our antennae have been honed to detect danger for years.  i think we've often heard the phrase 'don't be so paranoid' during our lives when we feel that something is off, and too many times it turns out it was.  hang in there.  i think you're doing really well in a difficult situation, too.  hopefully, it shall pass sooner rather than later.

You are absolutely right on that one, good point.

Whether we are paranoid or not, paranoia will more often than not, be the concusion that those around us will come to. So instead of just airing the problem and getting on with life, we have to play the silly game, and stay ahead of it, if we're going to have a chance of surviving.

The worst is the adjustment from having casual fun interactions with friends to 'playing' casual fun interactions. They are game players and pawns now without knowing it. And I don't like treating my friends that way.

Oh dear. Just got side swiped.

Another step backwards. Just not sure how big it is. Sigh.

Hang in there.  You are not alone with this.

Thanks radical. Don't think I can win this. And i'm saying that objectively.

To be honest, it really is an uphill battle.  If your ex is a malignant narc the odds aren't in your favour.  Is there any chance he will leave?  Or would upper management choose you over him? 

I could be wrong about what is going on in your workplace.  Keep that caveat in mind as you read the rest.

I don't want to make you feel worse, but  most people in your situation leave because of the damage to their health. Having been in this situation with cPTSD, I'm concerned about the extra toll it is likely to take on yours.  This has nothing to do with your strength, but about his malignancy.  I found reading 'The Wisdom of Psychopaths' useful for understanding the huge advantages his condition give him in these kinds of situations.  It has nothing to do with brains or ability.  Your best chance is for him to get bored with it.  You could sustain a huge amount of damage, even if you are able to get to that point, and you may never feel safe even then.

I'm not weak, I've survived a lot, yet after everything I've been through, it broke me.  I managed to stop the worst for a while, but i know it would have started again, so I set out a plan for leaving on my terms, and  in the end she finished off what she began anyway.  I don't believe I had any option but to leave, and it was only knowing it wasn't going to last forever that allowed me the distance to be able to sit back, plan, and observe and gather useful information for achieving my goals.  That and a couple of other things temporarily tipped the balance in my favour.  It wouldn't have lasted.  I followed professional advice and focused on getting my money out and eventually cut contact with everyone concerned.  In previous comments, I was hoping your situation might be different and trying to be encouraging, and painted a selectively rosy picture on that basis. I didn't want to alarm or discourage you because you were, and still are, doing so brilliantly.  It might well be different.

Have you been to Bully Online or the Workplace Bullying Institute for information?  I was hoping this might be a passing post break up thing, it still might be, but it sounds like he might be systematically setting up a mobbing to push you out.  I think it might be wise to read up on this.   I very much hope I'm wrong,  but I think, if you haven't already, you do need to find out exactly what you might be up against, and what your options are and make some decisions about how long you can realistically keep going with this.  Forewarned is forearmed.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you.  I don't want to press send.
:bighug:

Thanks Radical

I do like your perception, and no nonsense posts. Fluff doesn't do me well.

I'm thinking of options now. I'm not upset right now but it is clear that playing dumb has run its course. Today another co-worker has reared his ugly head. Got me uninvited to a social gathering that was set up initially by me and a few other people, and today went and had a long pow wow with one of the socio/narc/whatever he is ex's minions that I was playing dumb to, and who is always 'busy' when I ask him how he's going.

So that's two bullies, about five followers, and that's not mentioning a third bully in another significant professional setting of mine. That's another story in itself.

So I do think that its not worth my health.

your situation sucks, and that's the best i can say about it.  you are not alone in this, absolutely not. 

as far as winning, i see that as subjective.  if you come out feeling good about yourself. no matter which direction that takes, in my mind, you won.  that's what i ultimately hope for for you.  your ex, no matter his tactics, will never feel good about himself.  he may 'win' small, physical victories in this scene, but the ultimate goal/victory is your feelings about yourself.  hangin' right beside you on this one, contessa.

Thanks Sanmagic ;)

Yeah. I'm just astounded. This is so bloody strange. This other bully harassed me many times about a year and a half ago, and it only stopped when I reported him. He hasn't left like I though he would, so I made the first move for diplomacy which seemed to be fine... clearly not.

I have a year and a half of my project left, i'm actually technically on leave at the moment... I need to get out

So sorry, i'm reading what you are all saying and I do understand and appreciate everything.

My responses are a bit off I know. This just feels surreal more than anything. I've already been cut down so much over the years, fought so many battles (like everyone here)... and instead of issues being resolved they just compound. Its so weird.

it just sounds horrible.  hang tough!  do what you need to do to keep yourself as safe as possible.

It's so cruel and unfair.  All I can say is I feel for you. :hug:

Do get informed about bullying an mobbing and compare what you read with your own situation.  It's hard because we can't predict the future and there is always so much in a group situation that we can't know.

If you decide that what is happening conforms to what you read about psychopathic bullying/or and mobbing you will need to make some tough decisions about how best to respond.

Everyone's situation is different, but for me, even if the narc was unmasked tomorrow, and everyone came to understand who she is, (which is about as likely as peace breaking out across the world), the damage to my reputation in my community would not be significantly changed.  There were too many bystanders that became unwittingly involved in promulgating the misinformation and smears and they have a real investment in not believing that they could have inadvertently caused an innocent person harm.  One of the worst offenders in my case was someone I call Reverend Dingbat.  This high-profile, highly respected cleric became the narcs second biggest supporter, and has gone a long way out of her way to support this person.  She considers me to be insane.  Nothing is going to change her view, because she doesn't have the self-knowledge to understand how she became an instrument of psychological warfare.  It would be too threatening to her view of the world and of herself.

I could have limited the damage to myself, by getting out as soon as I realised I was under attack.  Over this time I have seen things I wouldn't have believed possible, levels of deceit, malice, sabotage, manipulation and wilful blindness, that I would only expect to ever see in movies.  History has been rewritten.  The only person still (sort of) speaking to me is the new target.  He doesn't understand what is going on.  Yet while I was still there i saw the new process start to unfold. I watched him lose confidence, withdraw, make mistakes, and worst of all, I watched as people's attitude towards him came to change, in subtle ways at first, but the momentum builds.  He was probably the most popular person before he was targeted.  The narc will move more slowly and cautiously this time.  I believe it will be drawn out and crazy-making in the extreme, and that there won't be a damn thing he can do about it.

One last thing.  Most of these people are good, kind, and ethical.  They are highly educated, and well respected not at all the sorts of people anyone would expect could be duped and manipulated.

I've read what you said Radical, and I think it may have reached that stage.

Have thought a lot about this issue, and what you are saying. Also talked to a few people as well.  One happened to be a staff member who was there when something happened. I apparently  have to report this, and I really don't want to.

Also got a very nasty surprise after all of that this afternoon, and by that, it cements my need to report... and yes, I don't want to.

Its clear I have two separate bully groups (or what definitely feels like it), to deal with here. The third bully... that crisis is temporarily averted for now, and no longer relevant to this setting. Sigh.

And another thing, yeah I was trying to keep this as light and positive as I could too, as serious an issue as it is. Looks like that is no more, ha.

I'm really sorry Contessa.
It's so unfair.  Sending every kind of good thought,  warm wish and prayer.
You are a good, strong, wise woman.  I know I haven't met you but I know it.
:hug:

Thanks again radical.

As much as I'm trying to move, my body has decided this is too much.  I think i'm experiencing the physical symptoms of depression without mentally feeling it. Ie I don't feel the deep sadness, but I can't do my work, sleep far too much, am not happy, can't talk to anyone, my house is a mess, and am now spending my day in bed staring at the walls.

Not good.

Here with you  :hug:

It's so unfair, so frustrating. I'm sorry to hear you're going thru this.

It's gutting.  I felt like it was the end when it happened to me.  It may be hard to believe now, but it does get easier.
None of this is a reflection of your value as a person.  You may be a threat to be eliminated, but being a threat to people like this might come to seem like a compliment one day.  Truly.

I felt like it was the last taboo when it was happening.  I felt more separated from humanity than I have ever felt. Hardly anyone talks about this, yet it does happen to others, and they've lived to tell the tale.  Unfortunately it's a story we can only tell to those who know how vicious, cunning and dishonest some (highly plausible) people can be, and a lot of people are in denial about that.

I had to have a psych evaluation from a psychiatrist about a month ago for a new treatment. She was truly lovely.  I had to go through my whole life.  Then I told her about this.  I didn't know how she'd respond,  but she knew all about adult bullying and mobbing,  and exactly the kind of person I was talking about and how they operate.  I cried and I don't cry easily.  She said "you were a threat to her".  I said, "no, I was a just soft target".  She shook her head sadly and said, no Radical you were  threat, and then explained why.  I felt so validated and soothed.  To be believed and understood by someone who had never met me before, and for her to deem that it wasn't because I was weak and defective, that she believed the opposite was true - it meant the world to me.

One moment, one step, one day at a time.  We are here with you, Contessa. :bighug:

Thank you Three Roses :)

And thank you too, and again Radical (warm fuzzy hug)

I've been told that i'm a threat before. I can also see it sometimes in the behaviour of other people... and it is utterly ridiculous!!

A new friend told me recently that he found my intelligence intimidating, and so he was a bit afraid of me. I've noticed good friends say this to me. Threatened 'friends' pull back and try to take me out, and these other guys have done it both professionally and personally. I don't understand why it even starts.

The last couple of days I have shrunk away in a hole, my little cone of silence. Then last night, unusually, I was included in something... and I stopped caring. I know I'm not going to be included in pretty much anything else, but I do thrive on social interactions with friends. I hope I can keep this not caring business up... I doubt they'll get over this ridiculous idea that i'm a treat too.

Thanks again :)
Note to brain... keep not caring please!!!

i'll second that!  keep not caring, please.

i've also been perceived as a threat by many, and what i believe now is that it's on them.   it's their insecurity, their own inner demons, or their personal issues that make them think that way.  it's horse pucky! 

keep not caring, please.  i wonder how angry you really are about all this - might you be stuffing, holding back, trying to ignore or deny?  hiding it behind the pain, hurt, and confusion?  that could cause those depression-like symptoms you're talking about.  my bed has taken a lot of pounding as i've encountered various situations and realizations.  best to you with all this, contessa.

Thanks. I think i've lost.

These two guys have teamed up, and... I think that's it. Done.

Update...
Wow. I've been assassinated.

Lesson: doesn't matter what you do, how good you are, or how long a history you have with friends, a sociopath can and will destroy it all.

:(  :hug:

I'm so sorry Contessa.

What you say is true, and it is so unfair, there just aren't words.
There was nothing you could have said or done better.   The feelings of betrayal are huge.  I'm trying everyday to let it go.  If I don't it will continue to eat me alive.

All I can say is that you are not alone, we are here listening. 
Be as kind to yourself as you are able to be :hug:

Thank you so much for being here for me xo
You have made all the difference :)

unfortunately, you're absolutely correct.  we can't win against those kind of people.  they have a shrewdness and cunning that we just don't possess.  snakes in the grass.

so very sorry, contessa, that it came to this.  absolutely sucks.  hang tough, my dear.  you are a prize of your own, and no matter what they do to the rest of you, hang on to that just for yourself.  you don't have to share it with anyone - they've proven that they can't appreciate it anyway.

Thank you Sanmagic. You and Radical, sorry you have been through this too. What is the point really?

I didn't want to reply right away, wanted things to settle. Its got to the point where I have decided to speak to several superiors about this so they are aware, keeping this quiet has not worked. In fact my opponents have grown. My superiors are disgusted. And because it is covert (cleverly covert), there is absolutely nothing that can be done HR-wise.

And there is no point to any of this at all. Despite not being completely downtrodden, it has affected my work output. My superiors are on my side at least, which is a huge help. It will remain to be seen how things will progress from here.

my heart is with you in all this.  i hope it gets reconciled in your favor.  dang, how horrible for you.  glad you've got someone on your side there, and hope you get some justice and resolution.  with you!

I so feel for you Contessa.

When I spoke out I tried to explain how vicious covert abuse is, how it is impossible to defend against.
Overt abuse is awful, but underhand, manipulative, deliberate nastiness is damaging in a whole different way. Everything is plausibily deniable.  It puts you in the position of risking further character assassination in saying anything which is such a powerless position.

Good on you for speaking up.  I don't regret doing so.  Being made to be silent was one form of abuse I was able to avoid, and in retrospect I was able to take back my own power and self respect, regardless of how others chose to respond.

I'm so glad you have support from your superiors. 

My advice, from painful experience, is say as little as possible to anyone concerned from now on.  Not even to those who are supportive, unless they ask for specific information related specifically to taking some kind of action in your defense, and even then, keep your responses brief and unemotional. Don't be provoked, and don't justify, argue defend or explain.  Don't say more, even in response to apparent sympathy.  Talk about what happened and process your feelings in confidence with outsiders.  Remember, even supporters are involved, they are not neutral.

Warmest wishes.  You are so brave.  It will get easier.

Yes, wise words Radical, and I agree with absolutely everything you said.

I suppose my tactic was to speak to these few people before other news reached them first, conveying clearly that there was no supportive evidence. Others were already unusually asking after my welfare as opposed to discussing work output. I wanted to nip that before it could begin with my direct managers, and give them the heads up not to waste time with whatever gossip came their way.

QuoteMy advice, from painful experience, is say as little as possible to anyone concerned from now on... Remember, even supporters are involved, they are not neutral.

Yes yes yes. I'm still questioning myself for having done what I did. However, over the last week I have calmed a great deal. I can talk about important work issues without worrying about what people have heard. I am now on task. If these guys hear anything from anyone else, they are better prepared to ignore it and perhaps nip it themselves. Good defense, not offense.

And with that Radical, I have been able to do exactly as you have advised me, so far, with confidence. I have stumbled a lot these last few months, but I am so glad you have passed on that advice. I feel like things may, hopefully, be getting back on track. Hopefully...

Time to move forward...

And thank you Sanmagic. Thank you for the continual support. Its time to get out of this hole and get back to work :)

Revelation, just spoke to someone who has apparently been dealing with this from his end... apparently there are no stories going around about me, but those that have changed their behaviour toward me are scared of me. Thoughts Radical? Sanmagic7?

I don't know what to make of it.  Is he suggesting this is all in your head?

My advice remains the same.  Don't talk to anyone with any involvement, however remote.  Which is really hard, I know.
Maybe you will be able to make some sense of things when it is all ancient history.  Trying now will just mess with your head, possibly make things worse.

If it was all a storm in a teacup there will have been no harm done.  Right now, you are doing great. Can you just deal with what's in front of you for now?

I believe so yes... which in essence confirms exactly what I have been suspecting from the beginning. It makes no sense though; how can people who I have only ever had positive one on one interactions with, all of a sudden be scared of me, and stop talking to me, if there were no rumors going around? All of my friends outside of this scenario are dumbfounded.

Yep, I heed your advice. Now that the above has been confirmed. I have again been approached officially and will be having further discussion... every single time I try and lay this to rest it comes back to bite me.

Trying to! Getting better at it but things to do with this just keep getting in the way. Tomorrow... Sigh. This is insane.

Influence can be exerted in a whole lot of ways, overt and covert.  Group dynamics are extremely amenable to manipulation.  Also, this kind of situation is guaranteed to create paranoia in addition to healthy knowing.  Setting you up for it is nasty in itself.  One of the problems is you can't know the difference with the degree of amaygdala hijack this sort of threat evokes.   Also, I don't believe you can trust even supporters to be completely open.  They have their own issues and there are usually pre-existing systemic problems.  Which is a part of the game.   Lunging at ghosts, or sounding paranoid by talking about it plays into this kind of narc puppeteer's hands.  One of the things that makes this kind of abuse so vile is that as long as he keeps cool, he literally can't lose.

Go with your gut about having been targeted, assume the best about how people have behaved in response.  Forget about trying to figure it out.  There may be an escalation if you don't respond further, or he may see what he can get away with and keep up a low level of continuing harrassment.  This isn't someone who can ever be trusted.

I believe you have been targeted.  You may never be able to have any closure on exactly what happened.  Stay staunch.
You have been amazing through this!

Oh boy...

I'm getting the same message from others. I'm dumbfounded.

i agree with radical.  the insidiousness of narcs and putting into play their various agendas can't be beat, figured out, or understood.  i believe you as well that there has been a neg. campaign against you.  buying into it in any way only means that you're playing their game, and they're the only ones who 'win', because they not only make the rules, they break and change the rules at will.  no one can keep up with that.

as much as you can stay focused on your own work, and away from what might be going on around you will be, i think, your best bet.  keep your discussions work-related.  i know it can feel lonely doing that, but, as radical says, stay staunch.  this, too, shall pass. 

in my relationships with narcs, i, too, was often dumbfounded, confused, and befuddled.  i don't think those are rare feelings.  i hope you can take heart in the fact that their actions only make perfect sense to themselves.   i just feel so bad for you that you have to be going thru this.  it sucks.

Thank you Sanmagic7.

Despite my utter confusion, what you have said seems to make sense.

Trying so hard to stay work focused. This keeps coming back to bite me. Any interaction I have with anyone has a consequence. Very disappointed that those in question were spoken to before me, when I had specifically asked for discretion. Now that they have been spoken to, I can only expect things to get much much worse.

Thank you again.

Hi Contessa,

Best case scenario - this is a series of troubling coincidences and they are over now.  You have been in a relationship with a colleague and broken up.  People understand how stressful that is.  It will all blow over.  How many people do you know who have been reactive during a stressful period in their lives, and overreacted.  Didn't you just forget about it afterwards because it was out of character and just one of those things?

I don't think that this is what happened here, but it might be useful to move forward as if it was.  Be friendly, but don't explain.  Please take my advice and stop talking about this to anyone with any involvement.  You will likely dig a hole for yourself and then fall into it.  He would then take it from there. That would be game, set and match.  These people never lose, with luck they get bored.

In one of your earliest posts you described your ex as either a malignant narc or a psychopath (I can't remember which but in their effects, there isn't much difference).  I hope you are aware of how dangerous these people are.  Keep as far away as you can, and maintain a polite but distant persona.  You can't win, but you can survive this and later, thrive.  You have been amazing.  Your buttons have been relentlessly pushed by a vicious, master manipulator, but you've kept your head.  Don't underestimate how much strength that takes.

Sanmagic has put it better, below.

Every time I have had enough, and knuckle down... bang! I think I have to just leave. I have already lost.

To clarify, when you gave me that advice I felt I had said enough and have had quite a good work focus. Your advice of not talking to anyone, approaching anyone, and keeping a professional work focus, was taken very seriously and I felt that I did do that. Anyone that asks me how I am going, I am going very well. I did not go out of my way to speak to people as you as you strongly advised, and have kept things vague and brief when approached. With your advice in mind, I did say no to further discussion, unfortunately a meeting has been planned. This person was brought into the circle, not by me. I let this new person speak to me and I listened giving as little info to them as possible. I do think it is well and truly 'game over'.

However, something did happen a few days ago. The girl he was seeing behind my back, a very very young innocent sweet girl, was just starting to open up to me about how badly he has currently been treating her (paralleling my situation), but has not transitioned into overt abuse... I believe that avenue has been well and truly shut down with this new person speaking to them, and she has gone back to him. My gut says that is now an absolutely no go situation, even if she does approach me and open up to me again. But have you had experience with that?

QuoteI don't think that this is what happened here, but it might be useful to move forward as if it was.

Yeah, been my mindset for months, still getting better at it, but the nasties keep coming. Those I have spoken to have honoured the discretion I asked for, and I did not talk to these people flippantly.

I do realise how dangerous this is. I obviously cannot diagnose him, but he is certainly following the trends. I do not speak to him, I do keep away. I do think that even nothing I tell you here is of any use now. The meeting tomorrow is trying to look at strategies to move forward, i'll hear what needs to be said, then make my decision as to whether I can safely stay on. My gut says no.

I need to stop thinking about this right now...

Actually that last message tells me I am not okay. Not at all.

I don't want to make things worse.  I don't want you to be more alarmed than necessary. 

Getting inside out heads and playing with our fears can be a big part of the game.  I've been triggered back into the obsessive ruminating and need to thought block myself.

The person who bullied me did huge harm to me in every aspect of my life.  It is a potential outcome in this kind of situation, but not the only potential outcome.   It does mean I have strong feelings.  I think it also means I'm in danger of being more harm than help.  Fuelling unnecessary fear is destructive no matter what.  I'm sorry, I seem to have done that.

Radical I do believe what you pass on is out of genuine concern, and with the wisdom of experience. You have done an amazing job of educating me in relation to this experience and I do thank you profusely for it. You are an amazing ally.

The extreme you describe does not seem far fetched at all, I need to be prepared for it and do all I can to limit it. Because of you I have taken as much care as possible, and the help I have enlisted has been requested to be that of cautious observer, not active interrogator. Unfortunately a slip up has occured and I do feel that I will be in danger.

I need a complete change of tact now. No discussions with anyone one on one. Only in threes at least. The strategies I have implemented so far, be seen, be unemotional, have been the right ones. Be work focused and absolutely no socialisation at all, AT ALL, needs to be done now.

Will see what results from this meeting, but I do think that there will be a big consequence coming my way as a result of that new person asking. After all, there always has been. Oh dear me.

Thank you radical!

contessa, best of luck with the upcoming meeting.  i can only hope and wish that it goes smoothly, and  whatever it is that you discover, i know you will deal with it.  i agree that you have done an amazing job so far of surviving this tornado even while in the midst of it.  and, it sounds like you have a good idea of what you need to do to keep yourself safe.  hangin' right beside you!

Thank you Sanmagic. All we have is hope. Your support has been indespensible, and like Radical, would not have made it this far without your wisdom and guidance.

Overall I do not expect a positive resolution, this mess has gone too far.

Radical, please let me know how you are going when you're ready.

I'm feeling okay.  at peace.  I had a good cry in the oddest of circumstances :stars: but it felt like a relief.
I'm safe, everything is okay.  It's finally stopped raining after three weeks, and the greens outside are almost surreal.
Horrible experiences seem to live on in my body long after the fact.  It's so good when I can let some of it go!

You really are doing brilliantly Contessa- stars and stamps all over the place!  (-do they still use those in the age of computers)?
it's going to be alright.  It seems that learning to ride the rapids is the path to peace.

I'm glad to hear it Radical. I understand that mix of emotions and how it can cause physical havoc, i'm sorry if I triggered you.

I would not have made it this far without you and Sanmagic. I had a rough start by constantly being in fight mode when this started, have made some 'mistakes' along the way (in terms of dealing with a sociopath and not a person without a PD) and although a lot of damage has been done because of those responses, you have been instrumental in settling that fight response down.

Those stars and stamps rightfully belong to you and Sanmagic too.

I'm hanging in there, feel okay because my trigger response has reduced significantly in the past few months, but I am clearly not okay because he has been told now about this.

What have I got in store next? ...

life just keeps coming at us, doesn't it!?!  always something around the corner.  but, honestly, contessa, you're sounding much stronger now, more sure of yourself, and i have a strong feeling that whatever decides to show its face, you'll manage it.  you've shown so much growth thru this experience.  i've heard that mistakes are simply opportunities for learning, and it seems that that's exactly what you've done with them.  good for you!   big hug! 

Thank you thank you thank you Sanmagic.

Again, only got this far because of you, and have looked forward to yours and Radical's advice at every step of the way, you have both prepared me for what has always come next, and I hope that you are both still here until this thing finally ends! I am in your debt.  :cheer:

A terrible experience but a valuable one. Well prepared to pay the wisdom forward now, sad as that is.

will be here unless something stops me, but it won't be my choice.  keep going - you're doing swell!

Absolutely understood :)

Quick question.

In regard to the fact that the sociopath (in mine and others strong opinions of course) was approached by this other person and asked directly if they are engaging in bullying (as I mentioned in panic last week), truthfully... there is always a consequence. What could I expect next?

At this stage meeting has been postponed for a few days.

unfortunately, there's no telling what to expect next.  ever.  maybe something, maybe nothing, but i don't have a clue.  those people are so volatile in their interpretations of what is said to them, it's hard to say where they may take it.  it could be something like covertly undermining you at some point, or overtly confronting you about something in an intimidating manner.  or, like i said, it could be nothing if they think that someone now knows and is watching.  they are so good at changing tack on a dime, doing what's necessary to keep themselves safe and hidden as to their true selves.

whatever might or might not come down, just stay being careful as best you can.  it sounds like you've been doing quite well at that so far.  keep up the good work.  totally on your side with this!

ditto the above.

If this person was a narcissist, I'd predict DARVO, but a sociopath has greater flexibility.

Having said that,  we can't predict anything really,  we can only know that we are okay and have the resources to respond with integrity.

Ah okay. Everything has been so unpredictable so far, this has scared me indeed. Particularly the fixed stare he gave me last week, went on for minutes. I found out he had been spoken to about an hour later.

Had to look up DARVO, and yes he did that in our private conversations when I'd bring up an issue where his behaviour was hurting me. Funnily, the first time it was just an issue that needed clarification but he abused me. Publically, I can only piece things together. I did think he was only (comparatively, ha) a narc for a long time, but the cold psych call has elevated that to sociopath.

I've spent months showing my face to people to give them a chance to make up their own minds, but its not working. Quite the opposite in fact. Few talk to me at all, but confusingly they have sometimes started to say hi when there are other people around. My next door neighbour has been approached at her very public workplace, by someone removed from the direct scene, and they have twice attempted to start a gossip session about me over the last couple of months.

Showing my face is actually hurting me, not saving me. I have decided to work from home now so I can focus, but am not sure if this will do further harm than good. It seems immediately safe, but longer term i'm not sure. Do you have an opinion on this?

Thank you Radical and Sanmagic. You are a massive comfort for me.

i had to look up DARVO as well.  boy, am i familiar w/ that one!  that is really ugly, an ugly thing to do as well as to feel.  really pulls out the rug from under one.

ya know, contessa, thinking on your question :  safer at home for now, but what about long term consequences?  so far, everything you've done while there you say keeps making things worse.  what kinds of long term consequences could be worse than this escalation of abuse?  would you lose your job?  not get invited to an office party?  be shunned?

i'm not trying to be funny, but i don't know how your office/job works.  i think you mentioned that you have one project you're working on that may take 2 more years (i've never worked in such a capacity in an office, so i really don't know what this means or entails).  do you have a project partner?  is there someone you need to interact with on this project?  it's not that i need to know these answers but in order to give an opinion on long-term consequences, it would help to know what those consequences might actually be.  for right now, i'm a little stuck for opinions.  sorry.

on the other hand, i don't think it's a bad idea that you're doing what you need to do to keep yourself safe.  it just sounds awful, what's going on in that place.  i don't blame you.  i've adopted a policy of making it as easy for myself as possible.  it sounds like working at home is just that.  hang tough, contessa.  hanging with you!!!

Thanks Sanmagic. I read your post a few days ago, have thought on your questions rhetorically... and then managed to stay completely focused on my work without any silly distractions, ha.

I knew you weren't trying to be funny. When not being abused I'm experiencing those things at a colleague level anyway, except not on the larger department level. Decided to give those things a miss for now anyway for my sanity.

It is my project so plenty of independent work, though I will need to be present for regular meetings with the shunning colleagues, and reporting to the boss.

For the last few days i've been able to remove myself and cut communications to everyone, so have been able to grasp a sense of safety. So far so good, but its only a few days in so far.

Yeah DARVO, strange feeling having such intimate familiarity with a concept described in an acronym you've never heard of before.

Just had the meeting. One member did not show up. Focus was entirely on strategies for myself which I really don't need to discuss.

The message I took from this was I am being treated as the mentally unstable one here. To me what he has done and what he is doing appears to be of no concern.

God, I wish it was different. 

The understanding of this kind of abuse is about where domestic violence was in the early 70s.  Back then there were the first glimmerings of awareness and some people were speaking out, a few lucky people were supporting each other, but as far as the community was concerned, and in the public domain and health services, police etc.,, the focus was firmly on pathologising and blaming the victim, when injuries and how they occurred couldn't be explained away.

It's so weird, and it goes with every kind of abuse - examples 'out there' somewhere, other countries, other parts of town where 'people like us' don't live, most people are dead against abuse, will be morally outraged by it, yet those same people will do everything they can to deny, minimise, justify, and cover up for abusers in their own social groups, and hurt those being abused so badly in doing so.  It is just so much easier to blame the person being tormented, no-one is threatened by this approach, no boats are rocked, everything stays the same.  It goes on and on.  But name an abuser, describe abuse in the present tense, while the person is still alive, and you are considered completely beyond the pale.  "Kind" people take the pseudo-sympathetic approach - you are unstable and mentally ill, imagining things.....  god, I'd so much prefer to be considered nasty and deliberately defaming the person concerned, it would be less harmful, I could at least get decently angry right back at them.   

After my father died, my siblings and I talked about his abuse for the first time.  Serious abuse, pretty much continuous. Why did he need to be dead?  He wasn't any threat when he was elderly and infirm, but he was still seriously psychologically tormenting my sister, the one who was trying hardest to look after him.  We could have joined together and stopped it when we were adults, we could have supported each other, we might have even had something more than superficial relationships with each other based on never telling the truth.  why?

I'm sorry to go off on a tangent, and I'm not wanting to divert from your situation.  It feels relevant to me.   Why do people default to denial and protect the abusers in their own sphere?   Isn't it in most people's interests to stand together against abuse?  I know part of it is fearing the consequences, but there wouldn't be such consequences if most people stood up to this sh#*.  The worst consequences come from the fact that people wont or can't.  Which costs those who do so dearly.

I wish the meeting had been different, Contessa.  You deserved it to be.

Hey no worries Radical, go off on that tangent. I was going off on many tangents in other people's posts quite a lot months ago, and it was unbelievably helpful in the long run to process something that was a stimulus to think from someone else's experience.

I think you are right, the easy path is the one that appears to be taken so as not to rock the boat. Unfortunately, I've been through this before so it is hardly surprising. In fact, I was in a situation with a dynamic similar to that of you and your sister with your father at one point, and yes, we did not once speak of anything until the end. Why did we not talk sooner indeed. What was it that stopped us? Is there a pattern emerging here

What people don't realise is that by not rocking the boat, they make the victims life a much bigger * than what they were living in with the abuse. They, we, did not deserve the abuse in the first place. We certainly don't need more from others when we are trying to save ourselves, that's what destroys what resilience there is left. Its destroyed me before in fact.

So although there was no real positive or constructive outcome, i'll take the silver lining in that things did not get worse. They are the same. I have taken the steps to look after myself and that appear to be working for the end goal I have in mind. As for him, we can only hope he has a new target for the pattern of behaviour to emerge now that I have withdrawn. Unfortunately it will happen, but I doubt they will clue in as quickly.

Thanks Radical, again it was a comfort to read your words of support :) I hope you are going okay right now.

contessa, i'm just so glad it wasn't worse, and that you're out of there and taking care of yourself. 

as far as rocking the boat, i can't tell you how many times that's exactly what i did and peoples' reactions went from tsk-tsking to being appalled and everything in between.  i don't know what their problem with it was, but i'm guessing there's some kind of fear involved.  once i was visiting a friend who lives in a military town.  she always spoke of these families as if they ruled the place, and no regular people ever went against them.  we went to the mall one day, and as we walked thru the first store, i could hear a little kid screaming in distress.  as we walked thru the store to the mall proper, the screaming continued and increased in volume.  it turned out that there was some kind of baby-seat bouncing thing that these adults had a little kid, two at the most, in the seat, and were pulling on the bungee cords and bouncing him at least 20 ft. in the air.  the kid was terrified!  this had been happening for 15 min. at least.  i couldn't stand it, said to the 'mom'  "don't you know how dangerous that is?"  she spit back some cussing to mind my own business, but the other people brought the baby to a stop.  he lay on the floor looking like he was passed out.  i truly didn't know if he had died.

my friend just stood there while this was going on and afterwards told me how brave i was for saying something.  i said 'what were they going to do to me in the mall - shoot me?'  she continued to be in awe, told others about it.  i don't know, it just seems that when it's the right thing to do, you just do it, especially when a child is involved.    boat-rockers, unite!!!

so, yeah, calling someone out on something that isn't right is just so frightening to so many, but absolutely the victims become more layered in victimization when it's not done.  i think we're losing our sense of outrage at the wrongs of this world, or in our little worlds.  we've been conditioned so well to keep quiet, it's not our business, leave it alone, it's someone else's problem.  the term 'outrageous' has taken on a new meaning.  i think it used to mean something to be outraged about.  so much is getting lost, and we all suffer because of it.  off my soapbox for now.  i'm just glad your meeting wasn't horrible.  and i hope you both know i'm not judging anyone for not bringing up issues sooner in their families.   i've looked the other way my own fair share of times. 

Thank you Sanmagic.

It could be fear yes. It could be self preservation. Sometimes all it takes is one person to speak up for the crowd to follow, but they will not take the initiative to speak up themselves. That's the key thing here, the terror of the child. The 'bravery' required to speak up is nothing compared to the level of terror that child is experiencing, and it is upsetting to think that several onlookers will do nothing because it's 'not their business', or 'they don't want to upset anyone', or whatever. Well, that child is already upset and experiencing something much, much worse before we intervene. It will only get worse for them if we don't.

No judgement taken. Sometimes it is safer to keep quiet, I know that too. Sometimes stepping back and letting someone figure it out on their own is what's needed too. Letting them know you are there for them is enough.

Anyhoo, back to work. Its been a good few days for it.

So I have received a follow up email from the meeting where one person was not present, summarising what was discussed. Well, that's what I was told I would receive.

So instead of formulating strategies for my safety in the office space, with staff members, we could only go through my personal strategies that I really did not need to talk about. The resulting summary reads like a behavioural management contract on my part. It is a summary of what I "made clear/agreed to", and there is a list of "You will... You will... You will..."

My personal strategies are not a professional contract, I should have just left the meeting. I feel like I was railroaded.

Contessa you were set up for this from within a no-win situation.

I do know how it feels, the people who do this are literally bullet-proof.  If you have the ruthlessness, lack of conscience and 10,000 hour expertise in manipulation, you can spend  lot of time putting your feet up and watching the show  while a bunch of (often well-meaning) dingbats carry on your nasty work for you, in good freaking faith!

This isn't forever,I know you are strong, but is there any way you could get away and do something else without too much loss?

Probably. I'm already losing so much as it is.

This is why I said nothing in the first place.

dang, contessa, how sucky.  if you feel like you were railroaded, you probably were.  and that sucks.  rats.

just keep keeping yourself as safe as possible - that's the main thing.  and, like radical says, the minions will bring forth their banners and butt you out of the way when you're not looking.  so, just know that it's liable to happen at any time, and be prepared.  do what you need to do.  in your corner, always.

 :stars:

Haha indeed Three Roses.
And thank you again Sanmagic.

My response is to draft an email response to myself to sit in reply to that email, today, stating that the meeting I orginially agreed to attend (and did not request) did not take place as I was lead to believe, and itemising the content and stating that I do not and did not agree to anything that was written in the original. I think that's all I can do for now.

QuoteIf you have the ruthlessness, lack of conscience and 10,000 hour expertise in manipulation, you can spend  lot of time putting your feet up and watching the show  while a bunch of (often well-meaning) dingbats carry on your nasty work for you, in good freaking faith

My thoughts exactly radical.

warrior woman spirit to the fore!  congrats on how well you're taking your power back.  good for you.

Thank you.

Feeling quite depressed today. Hope its only for today though.

big hug to you, contessa.  standing right beside you.  i've got some strength today, so i can share it with you.  hold on.

Hello all,

For the last month or so I have moved to other posts on the forum to get separation from this topic. However tomorrow I have a rescheduled meeting with the person who didn't show up last time.

As I was concerned about, so much time has passed since I first reported the bullying (in a triggered state caused by it  :blink:) to now. Things seem to be settling but the damage is done, there is a black mark against my name, and I am largely outcast.

At this point, too much time has passed from when this issue was raised to now, I don't know what to focus on now with this meeting.

I obviously do have my concerns, but any thoughts from others?

Thank you lots

PS- would like to apologise for my quiet and egocentricity. Have actually been putting in such long hours with my project with enthusiasm and focus. Been reading many posts too but am too mentally exhausted to write

I'm not sure if it is tomorrow now, where you are.

I know what you mean about the problem of reporting about while in a triggered state.  I wish I could turn back the clock, but that is one of the problems of reporting any kind of abuse.  There is a bizarre irony in being more able to be believed if you show little sign of being affected, and then of course, it can't have been that bad.....  I can't imagine any other kind of injury being taken more seriously if there is no sign of a wound.  Of course psychological abuse unbalances us, we are harmed and in pain and it shows.

I'm so impressed with how you've coped with this. 

For what it's worth I recommend a focus that bolsters your credibility.  If the person you are meeting is a manager of some kind, I'd take a philosophical big-picture view, emphasising the well-documented problem of bullying in education  (it is well-known to be a hot-spot for this kind of problem), and wide-lens insights about the effects on individuals, groups and education itself.  Talk about what you've learned and how you hope it will benefit you as a person and as an educator.   Maybe mention the serious danger for members of marginalised groups and the silencing effect on the voices that most need to be heard, etc..  I would avoid mentioning the offender at all.

Something like that.  (if it is possible) it's late at night here, but I'm sure you get the gist.

That's just my suggestion.

i think radical has some good suggestions.  i just wish you the best with this.  it's gone on too long!  strength and energy coming your way.  hugs.

Thank you both. I have just woken up, will be having this meeting first off, and am very tired through a bad night's sleep... thinking about the project and not this meeting, ha.

I agree that in this state of relative calm a credibility boost is needed, and focus on my own work right now seems to be making a little difference.

On another note, been working at the office since the new year and not from home. Can't let others see how credible I am if i'm not there to show it. :)

Will let you know how it goes. Xo

Hello, checking in to let you know that the meeting happened. There were some positives and some negatives, but things appear to be set to move forward from here.

Typically, I got what was a very nasty surprise which should have triggered me back into a mind buzzing, anxiety ridden and almost psychotic state... but I think  i'm so used to these nasty things I could only respond with very, very, very black humour. Will relay it in another post later, although it will need a strong trigger warning.

Thank you thank you thank you Sanmagic and Radical. You responses meant the world to me xox

Take it easy and be kind to yourself, Contessa.  Sometimes for me, there can be a rebound affect afterwards when I've come through something containing toxins.

It sounds like you handled a really difficult situation with aplomb. Kudos.  (no emoticon for that)  Looking forward to hearing about it when/if you're ready.

Thank you Radical. Thank you thank you.

I minced my words earlier, the nasty surprise was a traumatic trigger separate to this meeting. Typical bad timing! Oh dear.

Okay, yeah its settling in.

The unrelated trigger has been churning in my head. I'm calm, but very distracted.

The meeting about the bullying... "It's not happening"... yet the person who keeps telling me that then replayed gossip about all of the bullying that has been happening higher up the management chain (which I knew about), describing absolutely everything that this guy/group of followers have been doing to me, an exact parallel... but mine's not happening.

Things that were said to me:
The bullies all like me apparently and have tried to look after me, but I confuse them. And they don't know how to respond to me... but the funny looks from people I get are all in my head... I'm making 'assumptions' about people by analysing behaviour, that is wrong... oh but you know something is wrong because you can just 'feel something is off'...They apparently tried to reach out to me, despite the common knowledge of their overt and active exclusion... etc etc  :stars:

Can you see the contradictions and confusions? I got my point across that if they are in fact confused about what is going on, then so am I. Their behaviour has been utterly confusing and distressing. The main bully's abusive behaviour, that instigated this whole drama, was utterly alarming, unpredictable, fear inducing, confusing and distressing.

I also expressed that I had the strong impression that, due to the anomalous behaviour of other colleagues (including the one in the meeting), that I am the one considered to be causing the drama.

The mediator also asked questions of me, very deliberate questions. She had already asked me these questions previously, but clearly asked them again in the presence of this other staff member so they could hear my response. The mediator also asked me as a teaching professional, if I had a student come to me with an issue of bullying, how would I handle it. I replied with "I have had this happen a few times, and this is how I did deal with it successfully... immediately... nipped it before it got out of control"...

So I did get resistence and invalidation. But I did get my questions and view across, finally. But too late. I did hold my ground though.  And that staff member now knows enough of what I have experienced.

dang!  those kinds of contradictory responses and behaviors are, from my perspective, crazy-making!  no wonder you're confused.  it's bone-chilling to me that you've had to continue to go through this.  i'm just glad you were able to answer the questions, put forth your own example about how you would handle bullying (wonderful, by the by) and that you at least got some positives out of the whole thing.  contessa, nothing but admiration for how you've dealt with all this.  such strength and fortitude and determination.  you are inspiring, my dear.  big hug!

Crazy making indeed. I had to take a lot of deep breaths with closed eyes, and had to pick my battles.

I do feel that now my concerns have been aired, things might actually move forward.

Again, the confirmation and validation here has been a strong driving force.

<3

fingers crossed!   :hug:

Hello again,

It is now early February, and I thought i'd check in with some reflection over this incident.

I remember pre-empting this happening, and the emotional state of distress I was in back then (Shizzle hit the fan around August). As I had discussed with my T back then, I knew I was at the beginning of a downward run, and would have to wait things out until the events plateaued, and eventually rise back up to a sensible norm again.

Right now I do feel that with that last meeting, I finally reached the plateau. Five months. Had I been taken seriously earlier it would have been only three. Anyway, it is what it is.

The bully in question has played a remarkably clever game. Yet over the last month, I have only seen him twice in the office. Whether he has removed himself from me, or is just working somewhere else... I don't care. But I am much happier that he is not here. And I have most certainly asserted my place of belonging in the office.

I do not approach or speak to any person that has had anything to do with this. If I see them in the room, I continue on my way unless they say something to me. I will respond with a quick, polite and general conversation before moving on.

I make sure I am present for some social office gatherings, and I have been able to converse with people that last year I was isolated from, and have been able to connect again with others that just recently started giving me blank looks. There is nobody here to whisper in their ear.

I put in an expression of interest for work with variable responsibility, and management has responded to the affirmative to that.

I am being myself. I am organised. I am settled. I am getting my work done how I want, and in good time. I'm getting ahead.

I'm sure that if this path is sustained, and my future output proves my worth no matter what way, the path will start to rise again. It won't be immediate, but hopefully not another five months either.

Perhaps down the line, stories or rumours will come out of the woodwork, perhaps not. But right now I at least feel like I have a chance.

I'm so glad for you!  It's such a hard road to be on.  I've read a lot of people's stories of this kind of situation, and few are able to continue on the 'high road' in the face of it.  It is a real testament to your strength of character that you neither buckled under, nor allowed yourself to be provoked into counter-attack.  Either reaction would have been a victory for the abuser.  You gave him almost nothing to work with to enable his abuse, yet it would have been only human do to do so.  He must have been so p****ed-off.

Someone once told me in regard to the situation I was in,  that maintaining our dignity is walking the middle line between aggressiveness and submission.  It is no small thing to have held onto your dignity in this situation.  I believe you will continue to go from strength to strength.

May the road continue to rise and meet you.

Thanks Radical :)

I'll admit it was a fine line and I slipped a couple of times, but I'm better balanced now.

Absolutely with either reaction being a victory. Several friends on the outside said I should leave, but I'm not going to do that unless its on my terms.

Anyway, thank you for supporting my back bone as always. Hopefully will check in again further down the line with more good news, fingers crossed.

so happy for you, contessa.  you worked hard to reach this point, and you so totally deserve it, including being able to attend office functions and have pleasant conversations.  i know it was touch and go for a minute, but, dang it, you did it!  yay!   love and peace always.

Hi

I've been meaning to check in for about a week or so now, so finally giving the latest update when I should be getting my beauty sleep. Oh well, ha.

Radical, about a month ago you spoke of walking the middle line to maintain dignity. To me it was a tight rope for most part, a thicker line at the time you mentioned it, and now its plank where my feet are walking sure with no wobbling.

In regard to the bully/narc/sociopath/whatever, I have not seen him once. Not since the day of that meeting. Not a hint of his existence. I can only speculate as to why that is so, but the fact that it is so has been such a relief. I came to realise that I was in fact scared of him when working back late at night, or going in on weekends when nobody was there; before I loved the quiet, but I started to feel fear at this so had to cut back.

Our company has just relocated, and so office seating has been assigned where I am in greater contact with the people I removed myself from / have been excluded from activities with. Although I am not 'back in', and won't be any time soon, if at all, if I even want to, there have been instances of communications that have been above common pleasantries. I have been taking these as little bumps on the plateau.

One absolutely lovely staff member, who suddenly started giving me death stares directly after a time I knew they had hung out together, has started to engage again. Over the last few weeks, her scowls have been reducing in intensity as I play ignorant and strike up a cheerful conversation with her. Today, there was no scowl!

Also today, the person whom I consider to be his top minion (I've mentioned him earlier as a person who suddenly stopped talking to me and was always 'busy' when I tried to have a conversation), suddenly picked me out of the crowd and struck up an extremely pleasant conversation. There was not a hint of discomfort to be seen; for the first time in seven months he didn't look like he'd just sucked a lemon. Even later I walked into a large office to talk to someone else and he butted in and involved himself in the conversation.

This is such a huge turn around in behaviour. I don't know what has happened, if anything has happened, but a change appears to be coming. I do admit I am much more relaxed now, it is almost certain that I would have been giving off a weird vibe myself for a while. But since that meeting, I have been able to relax, in my own head and body, much more now that I got those concerns off my chest. Now, still without actively approaching anyone directly involved, and only responding to their advances, I can present me as myself. And I am a good person. I can just 'be'.

I'm not sure, but there was something in the air today. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but maybe this could a sign up an upturn.

So happy for you Contessa!

It's been inspiring to read your story.  I could see that, hard as it was, and despite inevitable, occasional wobbling, you were able to hold onto yourself and, most importantly, your dignity.  It is valuable for me to hear how you went about this, internally and outwardly, to hear about the struggle below the surface, and to vicariously experience something of the tight-rope solidifying into something stable beneath your feet, even as the your world was shaking.

I'm sure this went a long way towards the positive outcome.  There are few happy endings in this kind of situation, and though we certainly can't control how things turn out, maintaining dignity is a huge triumph regardless of the outcome.

I feel a bit envious of the fact that you are still in regular contact with the "onlookers".  That probably sounds crazy, but I feel I won't ever have the opportuntiy to repair any of the damage done to the relationships and to show myself over time, as the good person I was and am, to provide any other perspective to the narrative set by the bully.

She executed an Oscar-award winning DARVO and elicited extravagant support and sympathy, but may be more closely watched by some.   In the circumstances (in which others could be badly hurt), at least gives me some sense that I might have slightly reduced the odds of harm to someone else, in speaking out.

This week I ran into a sweet-hearted woman from one of the groups involved.  Her face was soft when I recognised her in  a crowd.  I was feeling good, and smiled and opened my mouth to say hello, and watched as she recognised me, smiling at her.  Her face hardened with a hostility I'd never seen before, and she quickly turned away.  We've never known each other well, but all our past interactions had been warm.  I wasn't excessively hurt, the scenario has been repeated with every member of that group I've run into, including those who weren't around at the time and supposedly shouldn't know anything of what happened.  It's what I've come to expect, but in that moment I responded to seeing her as someone I felt fond of, without thinking.

If I was in regular contact, I could be seen as I am, not doing anything,  just,as you say, 'being' and I believe with people such as her, some of the damage, probably not all, could be moderated.

I've been writing a letter to someone who betrayed my trust when I reported the abuse in this particular group to her, to express the hurt it caused me.  I let myself down in continuing to act as if I didn't notice the lies, in not speaking or responding in my own defence as that betrayal unfolded to my detriment.  It's not an angry letter, but even belatedly, I feel I deserve to be able to say how hurt I was to have trusted and been let down by her, and no matter how she chooses to respond, or more likely, not respond, I owe myself that.

Yes, absolutely Radical. I know this is very unusual. I have come to appreciate that when it comes to fight and flight, I fight.

The key I suppose was staying present in my job. I did withdraw and lay low, but did that in front of everybody and not at home. I did, and do, my job in front of everyone. I do not push it under their noses, I just happen to be there 'because of the management's office organisation'. It is definitely taking advantage of the opportunity that i'm lucky enough to still have had.

Most importantly, he's not there. I do believe the outcome would be much different if he was.

One of the major worries for me, though, has been the forseeable end of his employment here; his moving on before anyone could start to see through him, before another person became the new target, before others could notice the pattern... I don't know. But as I said, miracuously, things seem to be changing.

Oscar winning yes, but, not for us. We were hurt, yes. But we were are clearly intelligent, and more in tune to the nuances, and therefore a threat. I think that is what gives us the strength for survival, where others might not.

The sweet-hearted woman... yes. She is innocent as much as you are. It is amazing how much chaos one person can cause, if only we knew what the details were.

How is the letter going? I know what you mean about owing it to yourself. Some would call that brave and courageous, but if it was me, it seems like releasing a weight. It seems like my meeting and your letter are fulfilling a similar purpose. Let me know how you go!

terrific, contessa.  it's truly amazing how these things can change when we stay true to ourselves.  you made some adjustments, but you held your own.  warrior spirit!  it has to be respected, and i believe you are seeing the results of that.  here's to more of the good stuff in the future!

and radical, i think your letter is a great idea.  if nothing else, you are releasing your truth, setting it free.  yes, you absolutely deserve that.

big hugs to you both!

Thank you San, again for being there every step of the way.

Again I won't count my chickens, but am happy with the small steps so far.

Hugs back at ya both too!

Interesting development occured,  you may be interested San and Rad, and of course anyone else.

An opportunity came up to casually say to someone "Hey, I do have the distinct impression that *person* utterly despises me. If I'm right, you wouldn't happen to know why at all?"

They told me that yes this person does dislike me tremendously, they think they know why, but they will confirm it and get back to me.

They confirmed it, I got the response "she should know why", to which I obviously don't. I still do not know what happened, but apparently it wasn't something I directly said or did to her, but in actual fact what she was told by someone else.

So there we go. But wait, there's more...

I was questioned on my positive mood by others, and another made a comment on "how much I love to gossip...", which floored me, was then asked a few gossipy questions by the original person who despises me, to which I replied "not my business nor my concern".

Then *person* invited me back to their place to hang out. I did, of course, not do that.

In summary:
1) Huuh?
2) The utter insanity of all of the above confirms the bullying, crazy making and slander that was/is so obviously happening.

So the confirmation of confusion has oddly delivered me some clarity. Slow gentle steps, i'm one step closer to finding out "what I did". I do not want this other friend to tell me, i'd prefer to hear it direct from the person I "wronged".

Hope you're all well.

well, my dear contessa,

from my own experience with narcs, including my daughter, what i did 'wrong' was what they wanted to be wrong, or what they saw as wrong, something that i could do nothing to make right. 

for example, when looking back and analyzing my relationship with my narc daughter, what i believe i did 'wrong' was to have a baby.  this took some of the attention off her, she began believing that i loved her sister more than her (and our family was caught up in a loop of competitive madness, always making sure we could show that each daughter was being treated the same), and she eventually (and to this day) found the attention from me through being sick/some kind of victim. 

my narc ex is also a misogynist, so i'm hated by him for the fact that i'm a woman, something i can't change, either.  the narcs have their own reasons that are outside our area of control.  i hope you find some satisfaction with all this, contessa.  i know how nerve-wracking it can be.  big hug, sweetie!

Hi Contessa,

I don't know if you've read much on 'mobbing', (aka puppet-master bullying).   Writing by Stella Duffy has been helpful to me.  She tends to keep away from issues about the instigator(s), to focus on group and organisational dynamics at play.  She has written several columns in 'Psychology Today', that you might find interesting.

I've been immersed in the subject because I've started the work of retrospectively dealing with my own situation.  Now I have an opening, I'm being very careful to be in control of the process, in planning what I need to say, how best to express myself, what information I need to pass on, and what I want to achieve.  I'm also organising the questions I'd most like to have answered from the people I will be able to talk to.

I have to be aware that there are limits to how much damage might be able to be undone, and what I'm likely to be up against in being able to be heard, including resistance, denial, victim-blaming, guilt, shame, vested interests and group-loyalty and, also real hurt. I know it will be hard to not fawn or abandon myself.  I don't want to make them feel bad, I hope this might somehow be beneficial for all of us.  These are good people, but I do need to express my own pain, and the damage this has done to me.

There are some resources in your country that you might find helpful if things get rough again (though I certainly hope they won't)  You can Google 'workplace mobbing' and your country.

Still in awe of, and inspired by how you've handled your own situation, Contessa.  Keep us updated.  Maybe I'll be in a position to do the same, soon. :)

That was confusing to read, just as mine was no doubt, ha.

This has side-stepped the narc. He is doing whatever suits him, so now I have the opportunity, fingers crossed, to find out the damage he has caused. The person in question dislikes me for whatever lie was made up by him.

There will be no beating him, but there is a chance with those who have been lied to.

The people that still talk to me without any agenda, are the ones I decided to confide in last year about the abuse. They got the two sides. And it was one of them that I was able to ask the initial question to. And yes my nerves kicked into high gear when I did that.

Moving forward! I do feel that I have much more control now, and greater resilience. The fight isn't over for me, and when justice is compromised I do not stop until it is resolved.

Radical!!

We posted at the same time, ha

You have mentioned mobbing before but I don't think I have found quite the right information you meant way back then.

QuoteNow I have an opening, I'm being very careful to be in control of the process, in planning what I need to say, how best to express myself, what information I need to pass on, and what I want to achieve.  I'm also organising the questions I'd most like to have answered from the people I will be able to talk to.

I have to be aware that there are limits to how much damage might be able to be undone, and what I'm likely to be up against in being able to be heard, including resistance, denial, victim-blaming, guilt, shame, vested interests and group-loyalty and, also real hurt. I know it will be hard to not fawn or abandon myself.  I don't want to make them feel bad, I hope this might somehow be beneficial for all of us.  These are good people, but I do need to express my own pain, and the damage this has done to me.

I have not found any literature whatsoever on this, but as you have mentioned it I am happy to say this has been at the top of my mind in any interaction with EVERYONE. I am also drawing on my wealth of teaching experience, dealing woth children, their parents, other staff, etc. But always welcome a good source to refer to.

I'll admit, with all the damage that has already been done, I am actually experiencing some happiness with this. I'm enjoying the interactions, and seeing their facial expressions and listening to their verbal reactions no matter how silly they are. I'm enjoying taking my power back, and yes the key is subtlety, time, and walking away.

What we don't do or say is just as important than what we do. In fact it is the keystone to our control.

We're on the same journey Rad!
Are there any good links, or names of books you could pass on to me?

https://psychcentral.com/lib/overcoming-mobbing-a-recovery-guide-for-workplace-aggression-bullying/
https://newworkplace.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/workplace-bullying-and-mobbing-in-academe-the-*-of-heaven/
http://www.workplacemobbing.com/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beyond-bullying/201309/the-silence-shunning-conversation-kipling-william

Hi Contessa
I hope I haven't broken any rules posting the above.  It would take a lot of time to discuss every one of these, and my computer is on a go-slow. Even the emoticons are moving in slo-mo

We're on the same journey Rad!  Yes! Very glad to have you alongside.

What we don't do or say is just as important than what we do. In fact it is the keystone to our control.  - Very much onto this one!

It is good to feel I have some power back and a voice.  Maybe even the chance of some healing.

I don't think I can write anymore.  Am in danger of throwing something at this machine!

You haven't broken my rules.

All good Rad! Thanks for those links, I will peruse and learn. Looking forward to tackling this beast with you. Don't want you to destroy the machine so speak to you another time xo

Oh my goodness guys! Had such a breakthrough today. Emotions are running high so I'll keep this short in an effort to calm down.

Met with the girl that the narc dumped me for, and boy did we lay everything out on the table. No detail was spared, but both she and I gained a lot of clarity out of everything that was happening. It was raw and honest, and at times shocking.

Okay, have to do something else to take my mind off this, will be back when settled. Xo

This guy is extremely sick

I was apparently reported by him at work as a threat to her safety.

Utterly sick. And he would still say hello to me even after all of these people turned their backs on me.

God, Contessa, now that's a smear.  i assume she backed him up in this, maybe even believed it while he was spinning...

No blow is too low.  These people have no conscience whatsover, it seems.

Are you sure this woman isn't likely to be hoovered back?
I know that sounds paranoid, but those who walk on the 'dark side can have a powerful and hypnotic effect and take a lot of getting over.

Yeah, extremely sick.  How are you feeling now?
This won't be the only smear, btw.

Yes, she believed him and backed him up when she was approached by staff. Like I said we laid everything on the table. But he hurt her enough to make her question it and she cannot stop apologising to me for what she thinks she has done.

She's been through the hoovering, she described it in detail. She seems to have her wits about her now, but still has a little contact with him. I've advised her to cut all contact, but that might take a while, if ever. Until then I will not stop worrying for her. He seems to have burned a few bridges and is holing himself up in his home (or so she is told).

I'm settling. The shock took a while to set in, but now that I have that gap filled in, everything makes sense.

I was of the thought that I was reported for fear of his safety, but telling staff that I intended to harm her... That's a new level of sickness. I still can't form the words for this

Wow. I'm speechless that anyone would do such a thing. What a cad! Glad that you're out of contact with him. Take care of yourself, Contessa.

Thanks three roses. I'm okay but not. Going to take a while to process

dang, contessa!!!  what a buttwipe!  yeah, take your time to process this, but for the nonce (love that word!) keep yourself safe and know that i'm so happy this woman was able to talk to you about this and had the good grace to admit and apologize to you.  breakthrough, indeed!  i'm so glad i saw this - i'm smiling for you right now!  great way to cap the day.  love and hugs, contessa.

Thank you San! Yes, I think this accusation ended up being too wild for people to believe.

Long story short, I had to inform my supervisor. Action is now being taken at work. It is nonce out of my hands (probably incorrect usage, but wanted to give the word a go), so i'll get back to my own work and wait for the result! Will ba back to fill you in.

contessa, you made that word your own!   :rofl:   it's great!

hoping all goes well for you with this.  good for you, my dear.  well done!  big hug!!!

Hello all, I think the time is ripe. I'm going to start a new thread called "Reputation repair", keep an eye out for it, I'd like your input :)