Out of the Storm

Friday
I think ritalin makes me say dumb stuff. It's like it gives me ADD, makes me blurt out things. 
I don't even know if I have ADD and I don't care; I just wanted to try anything that might make me look less depressed.  Maybe I'm trying too hard to not look sad and tired and I'm drugging myself and the result is I'm not myself and that's depressing.

I think I should take it when I know I'm going to be alone and I need to get up and do a bunch of stuff.  It seems to work for that.  Especially if I have a discreet task to finish that will take a long time but doesn't require a lot of decision making.

I feel this screaming inside, and it's a violent scream that wants to destroy me, which sounds terrible but it's a reaction to something really minor.  Yeah, saying dumb stuff isn't great but it's not that bad.  I guess it's because I feel like no one understands me or cares about me.  If I say something I don't mean, I really want to say time out, let me backtrack and say what I really meant. I want to explain it the way I can explain it here. But people don't care or don't have time or don't have that kind of relationship with me.  I end up feeling alone and full of rage at the realization that no one is interested in all these details about my mind. 

Obviously it's because my parents didn't care. No interest.  You know how a kid might fall and start to cry and an adult runs over and says what happened? Then the kid gets to say what happened and how much it hurts and just saying that feels better.  Or when ordinary things happen-normally a parent notices what a kid is doing and the kid knows the parent notices.  What happens to a person when no one notices anything? 

I'm full of rage.  I don't know what to do about it.  On any given day, I tend to disconnect from people and accept my status as a person alone, and that makes me feel a lot better.  I don't expect anyone to care and that feels like a relief.

Quote from: tired on October 02, 2015, 05:23:16 PM
On any given day, I tend to disconnect from people and accept my status as a person alone, and that makes me feel a lot better.  I don't expect anyone to care and that feels like a relief.

So sorry you are feeling so down and alone tired  :hug:  I've felt that relief too when someone rejects me. As you say it's almost as though it's expected, everything is as it should be, it's normal.

But it's not normal.  And somewhere deep inside we know that because of all the anger and grief that keeps seeping out no matter how hard we try and stuff it down. It needs out, it needs to be heard, processed, and what better place than here where everyone gets it.

You are not quite so alone any more tired, I hope your heart hears that.  :hug:

Saturday

Yesterday I went to the store for food for comfort.  It's comforting because it makes me feel like a stranger cares about me, like when the barista makes me a latte-a creamy cup of something that tastes good and will wake me up later.  Then I realized I'm starting to feel that way here.  It needs to be strangers because small talk makes me anxious.  I worry about what I'm saying and I do better if the conversation is either controllable (I can think before I speak) or structured like when I order a latte. 

I started out having anxiety on the forum and felt like I don't belong.  Like I'm trying to work my way into a group that doesn't want me or pretends to like me but really sees me as an outsider.

I ended up eating a lot but it wasn't satisfying in the same way.  I guess that's a good thing. I was so bloated I went to bed early. I made a list when I woke up.  Several lists actually. 

--list of problems I need to solve, such as "I don't do things in the right order in the morning" and "I haven't been exercising".  Then I wrote lists of ways to fix those problems such as "what to do after my alarm goes off" 
--list of things I need to get at the store and which store has them
--list of things I'm avoiding that I really need to do
--list of things that can be done on the computer

I put on a toolbelt and put a pen and pencil in the pocket, and when I remember something I should do I write it. Or something that worries me, that I imagine I should do.  Or something I want to do but when I write it I realize maybe I should put it off.

I washed the dishes first because it's clearly urgent and important. 

I got a computer program that rings a school bell (or other programmable sound from a list of sound files) at whatever time you set it to. So I have a bell that rings on the hour.   I made different bells so for example, the lunch bell is different from the whistle that signals workout time.  I homeschool so for now I'm thinking of it as something I do for my child but I'm hoping I can follow it too. It's easier for me to do things for others and anyway I can't function unless my child is set. I learned that the hard way. 

I have a few extra ritalin because I didn't take a lot last month so I thought I'll take a tiny dose every 4 hours and get a lot done and make today a "regroup and plan" day.  I think I took too much because I noticed once I start a task I can't stop.  It would have been great if I had two hours of dishes to wash!  It makes it hard to shift gears.  Which might make this entry very long.

Kizze: I have trouble accepting help and encouragement and any sign of positive feeling from others.  I am great at listening to the content of what is said and understanding it.  Just not good at saying "thank you".  But it helps so much.  Being told I'm not alone makes me sad. I don't know why. It's true and it's good but it makes me sad and I don't feel like I want to totally accept it and I don't know why. It makes no logical sense. 

Quote from: tired on October 03, 2015, 03:25:35 PM
Kizze: I have trouble accepting help and encouragement and any sign of positive feeling from others.  I am great at listening to the content of what is said and understanding it.  Just not good at saying "thank you".  But it helps so much.  Being told I'm not alone makes me sad. I don't know why. It's true and it's good but it makes me sad and I don't feel like I want to totally accept it and I don't know why. It makes no logical sense.

I hear you Tired and it just is what it is as with so much in CPTSD  :hug:  We won't abandon you here and knowing that may help over time.   :hug:

Sunday

I woke up depressed and feeling guilty about spending too much and not paying bills. Avoiding responsibility.  I'm trying to work more and sometimes I wonder, why can't I get it together? Then I realize, well maybe because I don't have socks. Or maybe getting paper towels will make my day go smoother.  Then I go and buy stuff and tell myself I will organize, regroup, and emerge as a success. 

Yesterday I tried to get a lot done and I did get some good things finished but I got sidetracked a lot. Surprising considering I took ritalin.  Maybe it was too low a dose. I have a prescription for 5 mg and I worry about running out so I only take half at a time usually.  I like to have a few extra.

I think when I'm avoiding a task I get depressed and whenever I think of doing it I get depressed. Like my phone bill.  For some reason I'm over my text limit and I thought I had unlimited texts so I have to go online and see what's going on. I've never had this happen before and something inside me is feeling scared and paranoid in a totally irrational way. 

I'm behind on so many things and instead of dealing with it and being careful I buy more things.  I have this idea that if only my house were tidy, if I were tidy, things wouldn't be this way. People who pay their bills on time don't have a pile of trash in their basement. I'm not trying to be martha stewart and even if I were I'm about two years away from that.  It's just, right now I don't have any linens on the bed because I was too tired to put them back on last night after I washed them, and I went to the drugstore to get some dish soap because I was out, but before I went I didn't brush my hair or anything. Just threw a sweatshirt on over my pajamas.  Not that in our culture that's such a big deal.  Sunday morning at a drugstore, who's going to care.  Before I went, I had been up for awhile. Instead of brushing my teeth and having breakfast like normal people I got up and started organizing the basement laundry area.  I took the cleaning supplies and put them on a shelf.  Now, my area looks great. However, the back room of the basement has a big pile of junk on the floor.  Trash, broken glass, candles, paint, good stuff in there that has to be sorted. Some days, I'm great at that.  It's like, my specialty.  But today I feel depressed and useless.

I have two clients tomorrow so maybe I should get their folders together and pay the bills and maybe I'll feel better. Maybe part of my brain is saying, forget the basement and do the more important stuff first.

I am getting paranoid about the possibility of mom coming over and the possibility that I might let her so I can yell at her.  I have to ignore the situation and avoid the drama.

Getting fat.  Not exaggerating.

Not understanding why everyone else loves her even though she treats them badly as well.

I am starting to get a few fitness clients and I am terrified of failure.  I sometimes neglect to write down my plan. It scares me somehow.  Certain random things related to being organized terrify me. I wish I had a buddy to remind me and calm me. I tried getting a personal assistant but that isnt'working out.

I want someone to just touch base and hold me accountable.   I feel so scared now. I had a client yesterday tell me she felt great, energized etc then I did a workout with her and she said her back felt strained and I thought, great, one step forward two steps back.  I'm careless with people. If I had been calmer I would have thought it through differently. I'm scared.

I feel like there is no one out there who can help me. The only person I thought of was my teenage daughter which really isn't the person to ask. 

I feel like I don't need much, I just need something. Like here, it's not like people here are therapists.  It's a small thing to answer a post. But it makes a big impact. I respond quickly to small things.  I wish there was a service out there where someone could just say "tell me about what you need to do and I will ask you tomorrow if you did it". 

Quote from: tired on October 06, 2015, 10:24:42 AM
I wish there was a service out there where someone could just say "tell me about what you need to do and I will ask you tomorrow if you did it".

Start a thread. Who knows what it might bring.

When is your mom coming?

That's a thought.  An anonymous person will be less likely to trigger me or upset me.

Here's the situation:  My mom lives outside the country and last night she arrived in the country and is now with my siblings.  It is only a matter of time before she tries to contact me.  She'll probably use someone else's phone to "trap" me; she's done this before.  I get a call from my sister in law or niece or something and I answer thinking, oh wow, I'm getting a friendly phone call. Then it's her voice. Or I will get a call saying I got mom a ticket and she will be at the airport near you next Thursday at 5pm or whatever.  If I'm lucky it will be more a situation where they tell me she's too tired to visit and I should go there. But I doubt it because she knows I won't and if she wants to see me she has to come here. 

A yes, moms who do the 'I'll just bust in' trick.

Any ideas yourself on how the handle the different scenario's?
If she arrives by plane, how long is he likely to stay? Will she expect a sleep over?

Any ideas on how you could pro-actively avoid a scenario you definitely not want to happen?

She would stay probably a week and stay here.  But I can't let that happen.  I think I will just have to say to anyone who informs me of her plans, "this is not a good time" and they will be forced to change her ticket or whatever it is they want to do. Not my problem right?

Quote from: tired on October 06, 2015, 11:23:41 AM
She would stay probably a week and stay here.  But I can't let that happen.  I think I will just have to say to anyone who informs me of her plans, "this is not a good time" and they will be forced to change her ticket or whatever it is they want to do. Not my problem right?

Awesome. Right!
If she arrives unannounced at the airport, via some sibling who 'arranged' it, and is passing 'the buck' unto you without any consultation: Sibling's doing, sibling's 'fix it'. You'll be resented for it, that's the backlash. Put possibly worth it.
Any possibility of letting mom know in advance you're 'out of town', or simply too busy?

When did mom inform you of her travel? Or didn't she, and you heard this through the grapevine? If the latter, it might be easier to say "Sorry, can't do, my schedule doesn't allow it."

I heard through a mass email that she arrived. 
I"m not talking to her anymore at all; it's been two years.  I feel like they've resented me so much that I'm immune to it now!  I figure there's nothing I can do anymore to make anyone think highly of me. 

I guess I will say something like, if I want her to visit I'll arrange it myself with her. And then of course I won't arrange anything. It's no one's business; it's between me and her and she knows what she did. 

Sounds like a plan.  :thumbup:

I don't want to do anything today.  I started cleaning the basement. Usually something that I enjoy, organizing. But it's sunny outside and I feel like it's a waste of time. 

I want to eat but I can't think of anything. I am having a day where I want to be served food. I got a vanilla latte but the man who gave it too me didn't smile much.  I went to get a pastry but didn't find anything so I ordered a grilled sandwich and the guy was nicer.  So I felt satisfied. 

I have one client a day and that makes me feel like I have a lot of time to myself. I had 3 in a row once and it felt like *.  Each client takes about an hour and a half, so let's say I worked 5 hours or so. Not a lot.  I do have a child at home but still. I am lazy.

I can't think straight and I keep getting depressed.

I put some notecards and pens next to my bed so when I"m holed up in my room I can at least make a to do list.  I made a shopping list but forgot to take it and ended up buying some basement shelves.  I like feeling like I have control but it didn't work.

The phone rang and I thought it might be my mother so I didn't answer. Was someone wanting to train.  Same thing happened last night.  Which is worse, her calling me or her not calling.  I guess I want to know what's going to happen. 

Thursday
I ate so much today I am angry at myself. But I guess I got to the point where I know I have gone too far so I'll stop.  That means three days of no solid food which is better for me; no worrying about random stomach pain, and no bloated feelings where I can't move, no worrying if the meal will turn into ten thousand calories.

I finally asked my daughter about the basement and came up with a plan. Found some old shelves in the back room (the * room, as I call it; looks like an episode of hoarders and thankfully has a door). Brought them into the front near the laundry and filled them with cleaning supplies.  Went online to martha stewart .com to see what the imaginary perfect people do with their supplies, mostly so i can feel like I'm doing ok because I think I am.

I went outside and found a set of wooden folding chairs and a table that i bought a long time ago and neglected so they were looking really ratty.  I found some spray paint in the garage and managed to get a black chair and table and a grey chair out of it; looks good as new. didn't have enough to make it to the bottom legs but my daughter says they look natural that way. I sprayed a couple of tin cans and maybe i'll plant something. dunno.

I was going to list what i ate but i'm not ready.  i feel like it would help but i'm scared and ashamed. anyway.

tomorrow i think i'll take a bunch of old sheets and partition off any part of the basement room i couldn't clean until i get to it.  i worry that the cat might have killed a mouse in a corner somewhere. 

last week i got some of that expanding foam that seals holes to keep out mice.  i can't believe i didn't seal the house years ago. but i did it. 

i took a shower.  figured, i should take it now so if i'm depressed in the morning at least i'm not super grody.  i have paint on my hands but that's sort of artsy so i'll leave it. 

my sister called, younger one, i don't talk to the rest.  she gave me ideas for working online via some app that's better than skype. anyway made me feel hopeful/competent/normal. 

today i had those embarrassing moments at the gym but then i would realize, it's not me, it's the other person being weird. i said something appropriately witty and on topic.  they created the awkward moment, not me.  yay, this time it wasn't me!  sheesh. 

wow, tired, that's really brilliant! that's an impressive amount of stuff you got done, i hope you realise. proud of you  :yes:

understand about the food thing, but try not to beat yourself up too much, ok?? it is a blip, just a blip. 

Quotemostly so i can feel like I'm doing ok because I think I am.

you are, you really are.  :yes: :yes:

I have trouble taking in the positive feedback but I'm working on it. 

I spent the day doing a bunch of stuff and my hands looked so ratty. I got paint on my hands and tried to clean it and didn't do well.  Then I had a client consultation and I caught her looking at my hands.  They reminded me of my mom's hands, because she did a lot of gardening and general housework.  I guess my mom never had metallic nail polish though.  I make myself feel better by saying whatever, I don't need more clients. She's young, she doesn't need a trainer. She's a student and  should just go to her school gym.  etc etc reasons why I don't care.  In reality this person is young enough to be my child. And she is a child. 

Why am I so worked up.  I imagine her mom and what she looks like.  I bet they have money and leisure time and go to the spa.  They have that in control polished look that I never had; not even when I was married and had more money than I knew what to do with and my husband wouldn't have cared if I spent all day getting polished everywhere.  Sometimes I wonder why I didn't do it. I think I tried. I went to the mall.  I guess you have to do it regularly, the hair salon and the shopping.  It's time consuming.  It's stressful.  You have to drive there, which means you have to maintain your car.  You have to have a clean car, so your expensive clothes don't get ruined.  You have to sit still and finish a meal so you don't end up taking it into your car and eating it on your lap while you drive.   You have to make the phone calls to get a nail appointment, and remember the appointment, and drag yourself out of bed and put on clothes appropriate for the salon.  You have to clean your nails a little.  Brush your teeth.  You have to remember to wear gloves when you do dishes so you don't ruin those nails.  You have to care about appearances and about the people who will judge you. 

Mom recruited someone to call me. I don't like the indirectness. 

Quote from: tired on October 06, 2015, 10:24:42 AM
I wish there was a service out there where someone could just say "tell me about what you need to do and I will ask you tomorrow if you did it".

:wave:    ;D

Still following the path of your plan, regarding mom?

Yeah.  I think it's making me depressed. Yesterday I tripped and fell down the stairs (I'm ok) but I think it's the kind of thing that happens when I'm upset and also taking care of myself.  Like some evil gremlin is trying to retaliate. I have to be more careful. 

My niece texted me and said do you want to talk on the phone and I said maybe this isn't a good time because grandma is there (at her house) and she said no I meant to talk to her and I answered haha no. 

Quotehaha no.

;D
:thumbup: Awesome.

Yes. Depressed now. I've been there.  :thumbdown:
Stay true to yourself. Easier said than done. But there is a reward at the finish. I promise.

now she says my mom is asking everyone to buy her a ticket to come here but they aren't doing it.  I hadn't thought of that; just because she asks, doesn't mean they will.  maybe she'll buy it herself but she doesn't usually do that. 

staying true to myself is my salvation. when i'm depressed, scared, hurt, triggered in any way, i go to a place where I remember who i am and i do "me" things.  I had two clients today. yeah two whole hours of work! but for me it was a lot.  it involved helping people and that meant a lot to me.  i seem to be meeting people who struggle with one thing or another.  maybe that's everyone. 

i don't want to be mean to an old lady and i'm sure at her age she's suffering in her way. she's upset that i won't talk to her. maybe she feels guilty.  what i'm doing is having an effect on her.  but i have made up my mind and i won't turn back.  if it were me and my kids stopped talking to me i would let them do whatever they have to do. when they were younger and we had arguments and they stormed off slamming doors, i did walk in and continue talking. maybe that was wrong but i didn't want them to feel bad and i had to fix it; they were kids and it was my job and they didn't know better. they needed me. now, if they want to avoid me and not call or go stay with someone else for awhile, i wouldn't force anything. i would wonder why they might avoid me.  when they see me again i would make sure i fix whatever i did wrong without being too intrusive.  they are old enough to know what they want from me and i'm here for them if they need me and if they don't , i'm just going to be here in case.  what i am saying is that i'm not treating my mom in a way that i wouldn't want to be treated. i'm doing the opposite.  if i acted the way she did i would hope they would run, far far away, and find other support in the world and live a full life and absolutely not worry about me at all. 

you know what, tired? you sound like a really lovely mum to your kids.  and the fact that you could be that for them shows what a strong and  wise person you are, becos you didn't exactly have a helpful role model for motherhood! this is something you taught yourself, and i really respect that.  hope you'll feel encouraged with yourself  :hug: :hug:

Thank you arpy1. I don't get feedback anywhere so that is reassuring.

Today I had some thinking to do. I felt guilty about ignoring my mom.  I had to really be sure, and I was sure.  I wish I could say that something good will come out of seeing her but it won't.  Not for me. I know she has good in her and I see that.  My sister might argue, you should tell her something good about her, share good thoughts etc. But the thing is, she doesn't take it in. She won't believe it. Not about herself or about me.

Last time I saw her I was in a good place, I thought, and I assumed she would see it and be proud of me but she wasn't.  What good will it do to have her come over and say "don't worry mom it's all good"?  I did that before.  She has to find her own answers.  If she feels guilty she has to fix that herself. 

Anyway I feel better now that I had that little q and a with myself.  It's a bad situation and yeah it's ugly. But I didn't do this. I didn't create this ugly situation and I can't make it pretty.

exactly. and i know how hard it is to come to that horrible realisation that nothing you do will ever be able to turn the relationship from toxic to healthy. but you're right to stick with your decision and give her the responsibility for her own stuff. courage, dear heart - the guilt is not yours to carry.   :hug: :hug:

My brother is asking me "What are your plans to come and see Mom. She's gotten more frail .  It would probably be best if you could fly down here.  I'm sure Mom would cover the airfare."  I think he has no idea I'm not talking to her.  I said I'll see what I can do. I haven't made any particular plans right now.  I guess I feel like it's none of his business and I don't want to get into it with him.  Eventually he'll notice I'm not making plans and he'll have thoughts about that.  Maybe he'll say something .  I feel like a monster.  When I get like this I'm not myself.  Unless... unless this guilty person is the real me and when I feel justified I'm not myself.  I remember feeling like this when I was a teenager and thought, am I psychotic?  Am I delusional and my version of reality is completely off?  Is that possible?  I feel better when I'm not feeling guilty but is that good?  Maybe I'm a total narcissist and I make myself feel better because I'm selfish.

On the other hand... sigh... the whole thing is just, over.  She knows it too.  She knows that it is what it is and the truth won't change by seeing each other.  What we had won't go away, any good that was there.  And seeing her one more time won't lead to any growth or realizations. it won't change anything.  I won't like her more or less. I guess I don't care. it is what it is.  i'm ok with it. i just, don't care. 

.

I said "I'll see what I can do" mainly to stall so no one would make plans for her.  If I said "I'm not coming" she might insist on coming. This way no one does anything. 

I can't care about everything and everyone for years and years and years.  I'm tired.

Quote from: tired on October 13, 2015, 11:22:31 PM
I feel like a monster.  When I get like this I'm not myself.  Unless... unless this guilty person is the real me and when I feel justified I'm not myself.  I remember feeling like this when I was a teenager and thought, am I psychotic?  Am I delusional and my version of reality is completely off?  Is that possible?  I feel better when I'm not feeling guilty but is that good?  Maybe I'm a total narcissist and I make myself feel better because I'm selfish.

I think it's safe to say that because you are feeling guilty you are not a narcissist. I am often myself feeling guilty as *, so I can't say I have an objective view on the matter (I don't want to be a narcissist either  ;D ), but I think the mere fact you feel guilty for 'letting mom down' is evidence you care for 'an other', which certainly is not a narcissistic trait.

And from all that I have read over the last past years I've learned that feeling crazy, doubting whether you are "completely off" is one of the main signs of (emotional) abuse.

Quote from: tired on October 13, 2015, 11:24:28 PM
I said "I'll see what I can do" mainly to stall so no one would make plans for her.  If I said "I'm not coming" she might insist on coming. This way no one does anything.

This is a fine strategy, the stalling. You can stall as long as you like, and you can also quit stalling as soon as you're fed up with it.
There's no need to rush into decisions, there's also no need to postpone them longer then you feel fit.

I do commend you for the stalling though, since you didn't fell into the trap of giving in to meeting your mom, which you clearly still don't want to.  :thumbup:
Sometimes passive-aggressiveness is just the right tool at the moment.

Thank you for saying that about my stalling.  I don't like to be manipulative because my mom does that but on the other hand I don't have to be honest with everyone all the time. I don't owe it to them.  I do need to be honest with myself and people I want to be in a relationship with but my brother isn't one of those people right now. I guess maybe if I have the time and want to take that huge risk I might have a conversation.  But I doubt he will be supportive. He's never been. 

i commend you tired, for having the courage and awareness to stay with your own decision. 

the thing is, i often find that when i am feeling crazy like you describe, it is becos of the crazy-making behaviours to which i have been subjected over the years.  guilt is a useful tool for a crazy-maker. it means that you, until you get wise to it and decide to bear the false guilt and protect yourself anyway, will do whatever they require, in order to stop feeling guilty... remember? 

my husband did this to me for years until i stopped playing the game. then i got all the nasty behaviour to try and get me back in line. when that didn't work (in fact, that's when i left him), he played the 'poor old me card' and i ended up being the villain of the piece.  i don't regret any of it. it was horrible, traumatic and so hard to do i thought i was going to die. but i didn't.

crazy-makers are just that - people who make you feel crazy, confused, guilty, responsible for fixing everything. it's their 'modus operandi' no wonder you are having this battle.

I took a lot of ritalin today and got a lot done.  I even took a small nap in between, and woke up from the sound of my own snoring. I think I only slept for ten minutes but it was enough. 

my brother is striking up a conversation again about us visiting
i hate to blow him off because maybe he has no idea what's going on and he's polite, even when he's super judgemental. i mean we have a sort of distant polite relationship so i don't want to be a jerk
and he is the golden child, adores our parents, etc.  and i don't know if i want to get into issues. it will upset him and nothing will change. he's not a mean person just one of those super religious types .  trying so hard to be good. 
i told the kids they are of course free to go visit anyone they want and this is a problem between me and my mother. i am tempted to keep them away because she can be mean but i think it bothers me more because i  have expectations and other issues.  maybe they have a different take. seems like no one else is bothered the way i am.

i need a nap. i don't need to be talking to him but i can't help it.  i want to get this over with and somehow let it be known that i don't want to see her.  maybe stallling /lying/passive aggressive is better.  as much as i feel guilty, i also know myself and i have a lot to lose if i get too stressed out. i have new clients and that's real money.  if i get depressed i lose a lot.

I wonder if I'm wasting my time trying to work.  Maybe I have too many problems and trying to work has backfired. I've spent so much money on job related things like clothes and equipment. Household items.  If I didn't do any of it, and just assumed I couldn't work, I would be way ahead. It's like I invest in myself and the investment fails. 

I thought work is picking up? Slowly, yes, but steadily. Yes?

Maybe I'll just tell my brother that I'm tired and stressed and travel is absolutely out of the question (I barely make it to the grocery store) and having someone over is a close second. It's not just that it's my mom. Having anyone here is like chaos for me. You might as well ask me to host the olympics in my back yard.  On any given day I am unlikely to have clean towels, clean anything.  Sure, when I have a client I clean like crazy.  But because of all my problems with functioning it doesn't last.  It takes me hours to get it back so if I have a client say at 4, like today, I plan on having a large block of free time.  Today I plan on keeping 11-4 free to make sure I'm ready .  I know it won't take that long but I might get tired and need a nap who knows. I don't know if I have to do laundry or not because I haven't checked to see if my clothes are clean. 

Anyway I want to explain how hard life is right now and that it's not good for me to see mom.  Maybe he'll understand.  I don't think anyone in my family realizes this. They ask me to come visit like it's nothing. They don't get (no one does) how hard it is for me to even have a conversation. 

yes it is

I'm getting confident which leads to spending, on things like socks or whatever.

I just did a consultation which is a free meeting with a potential client to talk and see if it will work etc.  I talked so fast. I don't know why.  I didn't have coffee or ritalin. I did take a nap earlier, because I had been awake since 3am.  But it wasn't a big nap. Why I was so ramped up I don't know.  I should have calmed down and let her talk, let her tell me what she wants. Usually I ask what they are looking for and let them talk a bit then I launch into here's what I do.  Then I shuffled her out because a client said she was on her way, which meant "leaving work now, be there in 20 min" but I get so anxious about moving on to the next thing. I am anxious about my ability to function.

i hate everyone and everything right now.   i'm usually more specific than that but i'm too tired to care. 

I'm going to the gym. I took a shower, and told myself I can do it and I will have time.  I don't know why I imagine showers take forever.  When I was growing up I think I only showered when my mom once a week threw me in the bath and took forever washing me. why i don't know.  i always felt cold and slightly battered. i hate water; i hate that moment when you go under the water and you get that chill even though my water heater is set to boiling hot.

i feel better knowing i'm close to normal before i leave the house.  i have so many strikes against me.

I heard once that the time you change is when you get sick and tired of things being the way they are. I started writing and sounded like a broken record and I'm sick of talking about the same things.  Time to take action.

I feel pressured to see my mom, and I can see myself giving in.  The way I always felt growing up, being coerced into things.  Cajoled, badgered. 

I think about what good it would do to see her and I can't imagine it being good for anyone.  I guess maybe it would be good for her, what do I know. How can I read her mind. But not good for me, or my kids.  It's not like seeing her can erase the last two years of avoiding her.  She'll say something about it and I will have to either express anger as a reason why I did it or I will have to just be silent and ignore the issue and not talk about it.  How would either of those things help her. They won't.  I can't fix what is broken.  I mean I can't make it all ok for her.  I can't lie and even if I tried she wouldn't buy it. 

why am i even talking about this; i decided already i'm done. it's just that i feel pressured and it's how my mind works; people say i should do something and i do it. i am starting to remember dumb things i've done because someone said i should.  that's just nuts.

 :hug:

Perhaps a word of comfort regarding the "sick of talking about the same things": Like you said, you've been pressured into doing things you didn't want to time and again. It will take time and again as well to remind yourself you don't want it anymore. Alas.
You've been 'trained' into certain behavior, now you have to 'de-train'. It does take an effort.

So hard. That's what I experience at least. I can relate.

:hug:

I thought a lot about that pressure to do things.  last night i had a meltdown.  i was trying to catch up on housework and i exhausted myself and i just curled into a ball and cried.  i felt abandoned by the world.  there is no one on the planet who cares that i don't have clean socks or at least don't know where they are and no one who will come help me find them.  it won't take long, just five minutes probably.  i don't even need them to be clean so i'm sure i have some around here somewhere. i know for a fact that i have many socks.  i dont know why it has to be this hard.

then it occured to me that contemplating seeing my mother and feeling like i'm on the fence about it still, is making me crazy.  i weighed the pros and cons and i think seeing her, or even considering it, is going to be much worse than facing whatever happens when i say no, i'm not going to see her. 

i also had to think about my kids and whether i would subject them to a visit.  i imagine all the things she might say to them that would hurt and do i want to risk that.  no.  i don't. 

hopefully the meltdown helped.  part of de-training.

tired, omg, how i relate so much to this!!

I hope this isn't too much, this is just my 2 cents on this, as i dont know how to help you as I'm currently in the same situation.

Have you read Pete Walkers books?
He talks to how the flight response?? I think its the flight response- can appear to have ADD- but they dont have ADD- its their response to trauma.
Maybe you are trying to *look* less depressed- in fear of what others think. I think we all need self commission, but i understand too how you want to function normally and appear normal to others.
Its trying to find the balance which is hard.

You mention you *feel* this screaming inside of you-
you dont *hear* it?
I was going to say maybe if you hear it your are hearing a memory- you or someone else screaming-
but if you are feeling it- you are feeling a memory perhaps-
do you think this screaming is anger?
I have anger that screams and i feel i could rage - and sometimes do when pushed just too fear and its always beyand my control.

It does feel like my anger will destroy me and everyone around me.
My T said to me that when you are little-
if you are angry at your parents- that is too scary-
so you dont do it and you turn the anger in on yourself, so that you can convince yourself that you have control over the way you are being treated-
and also so you dont have to face the fact that you are being treated unfairly.
If you are angry at your parents-
there was every chance they could punish you or leave you-
and a child needs them to survive, so they are afraid of their anger destroying them- as if they angered - it could take away all means of survival.
Does that make sense?

The rage we feel too is huge. So it is scary.
Are you trying to dull down this anger and block it out with the pills?
Angering is the first stage of recovery typically, so angering is a great start to recovery, even if its hard and doesnt feel great. Sometimes recovery is very hard but i I'm sure there are positives along the way too.
It doesnt stop it being scary- but if you think that- this anger is anger that we were not allowed to express-
it wants to come out. It has a right to and you have a right to express it.

I am so sorry you feel so alone.
I do too, and Cptsd and our terrible relational experiences make us distance ourselves form others and not let them in. Others dont know us as a result.
Sometimes when i think my partner doesnt care- it isn't true, as I'm finding out in therapy.
It is the tape that goes on and on in my head-
knowone cares, just like my parents never did.
I think he intentionally ignores stuff-
things that matter ie. how I'm feeling-
and i worry that if he actually doesnt know what is going on therefore isn't ignoring anything intentionally-
i worry ive picked a partner like my parents.
But sometimes- he is being a nice normal person, and i dont realise that ANY AVERAGE PERSON would miss things sometimes.
And also, we do attract though no fault of our own - people that dont see us. or self involved others.

Maybe you are projecting your rage about your parents onto others as I do...and maybe you are also right to be angry with others- justifiable anger-
that is coherent with the facts in font of you.
Flashbacks or not- your feelings are valid and I'm sorry its all so hard.

Your next bit helped me to realise, that through out my whole life, my parents never talked to me about the bullying at school- or anything that bothered me. I never felt better because they didnt allow me to express myself.

What happens to a person when no one notices anything? 
So many things. Have you checked out Lisa A Romano Breakthrough Life Coach on youtube?
She talks a lot about neglect and what it does.
Also , let me know if you are interested in books about neglect.
Running on empty is a good book the explains very well.

I am full of rage too. Its so hard being so angry all the time when it feels that there is no place for it and that it might not be accepted in the world. It is so hard for us when we have been told to have no feelings.
Hopefully you will be able to direct the rage safely towards the people who deserve it. I am working on this now so i cant offer any advice.
Rage covers up pain and usually is the pushier emotion that comes first
Once rage is over, sadness can come forth.

I am the same and it saddens me that it is this way for you.
On any given day, I tend to disconnect from people and accept my status as a person alone, and that makes me feel a lot better.  I don't expect anyone to care and that feels like a relief.
Maybe this is your defence pattern. As a freeze type, i isolate. I guess we isolate anyway as in, not giving ourselves away in relationships etc.
Maybe we are trying to take possible rejection that we fear into our own hands.
Have you read about freeze types?

I hope this was helpful. I hope it wasnt too full on.

 :thumbup: , Tired.

Indigo:  I will look up those two resources.  I don't know what a freeze type is exactly but I've heard it mentioned on this forum. 

My therapist mentioned a few things.  He said that my big problem is rage and not expressing it even to myself. Not recognizing/acknowledging/admitting it.  I turn it all inwards. He also says that shame is a problem for me and maybe that's why I don't want to admit problems, show weakness, get help.  I'm trying to be a fitness trainer so I can't just let everyone see all my problems but it actually goes deeper than that. 

I vaguely remember reading a great deal about shame and rage as common developmental themes and how they are related. 

The last thing you said about isolating myself-it made me remember being a child and thinking, ok my parents are nuts and unreliable but that's ok. I can take care of myself.  This was how I comforted myself.  I went to school and that was helpful because I got information about how to live, how to learn about how to live.  My therapist said that when we are kids we develop coping skills that help us survive but we don't have to continue those mechanisms if they don't work for us anymore. 

I don't like to scream inside, or outside. I'm *tired* and lately I'm all about staying in my comfort zone.  I wasn't like this; I was always out there, taking risks.  Maybe it's time to take one single risk, bringing out that anger.  It's so hard.  My mother is old and frail.  Of course I'm angry at who she was when she was younger and should have protected me.  I guess I'm not angry for the present moment, I'm angry for the past.

I don't know what to actually do-but looking up resources and doing more reading is something I can do. A task. 

So my last two clients paid me in full instead of the student rate I offered them.  I'm taking this as some kind of sign. 

Hey tired

I am glad you are going to look up the freeze type. Its on the net and also in Pete walkers book- cptsd- from surviving to thriving.
If you cant find them, let me know and i will send u links.

Do you agree with what your therapist thinks?
I have heard of these before. Turning rage inwards as we had to as children living in homes like that-
and we would be punished if rage was expressed at the parents.
If turning it inwards is a familiar pattern, we would be doing it still, which we are.
(i am the same), but end up projecting it outwards on the wrong people.
Shame yes- same here. Cant ask for help etc. Thankfully I'm finally in therapy.

I have heard that shame is rage turned inwards and depression is anger turned inwards.- but range / anger- tree- leaf...maybe similar.

Im sorry i made your remember- I hope that wasnt too much of a bad thing.
How hard for you to have to realise that as a child!! That must of freaked you the * out and made you feel very unsafe and alone.
Its very sad, that it was that way for you, and that you had to learn how to live in this world from school.
I think we are still learning how to live.
So you were basically your own parent, same as I. I dont remember that thought being a conscious thought , not to say that it wasnt- just dont remember, but i used to talk to myself and still do- as a mother talking to a child.

It is natural for us to also think that the world is dangerous and that people will hurt us, after that being all we have ever known.
Maybe we dont need to isolate now.
The freeze type is unaware of the life narrowing consequences of isolating. The belief that people and anger are synonymous are not realised, as it is subconscious and burried. i guess we would have to burry that belief as we wouldnt be able to function in the world at all-
therefore we even disassociate from that freeze type belief so i guess we are disassociating from what actually caused us to be afraid- people!!
Sorry , just writing my thoughts.....
basically, freeze types are unaware that this is their belief.

I dont blame you for being tired. There is only so long you can go before you are even more tired. I would try not to be hard on yourself for needing to take time out.
I know you dont like to scream - at all. Its scary. And often we have been made to feel same for expressing emotions / been punished / rejected for emoting.
I hope you can find a way to express this feeling.
Are you seeing a therapist?
I ask because-
I wouldnt rush with the anger and pushing yourself if you are not ready. Read Pete Walker about this. Emoting for some can cause flashbacks, not receive them because of the shame attached to emoting.

Even if your mother didnt mean to have you too young etc etc. she still did, and she is the parent who had the responsability- not you.
I totally understand being conflicted and being mad at her / them and seeing them as just people like us-
its confusing- which one to be?
But its both, and weather what happened was intentional or not..it still happened and you have every right to feel angry etc about that.
Sometimes we make excuses too, to hide from the truth of how we feel.

I think that your plan to read and look up resources is a great idea. It can get you started, and maybe help you to understand what happened.
I must say- for me it was my therapist and she is still helping. Im learning the story of what happened and no book could help me see it, but thats because i dont remember much and ,...my brain is screwed up from what happened so i couldnt see or validate.

Anything i can do to help.... ;)

Thank you

Alternating between depression and rage so palpable everything I say seems laced with it even here. It's like I talk and bitter poison spews out. 

I see what you mean about freeze type. Could be true about me. 

Angry at all the therapists who didn't fix me .  Yes I'm insightful and valuable but I can't function .

Speaking of freeze types . It seems like a bit of delusional thinking and sometimes I get so lost in my head that I say things that aren't rational. Not terrible or completely impossible but not thought out. 

I read about delusional disorder as a new diagnosis. It is different from psychosis because that involves delusions that are obvious whereas someone with delusional disorder believe things that aren't impossible. So it's not as clear.

Depressed and angry and having meltdowns frequently the last few days.  The upside: makes it easier to decide I can't deal with my mom.  Too crazy to care.

I hope that wasnt too much tired.
I undersatand. Anger is like poison, it feels like poison = destructive. Maybe you think its ugly etc. because of the way those in your life reacted to you having feelings in the past.
Abuse is poison and it poisons us.
I remember having all these words in my head one evening and writing down all the emotionally abusive things that i could remember my mum saying to me and I literally felt like poison was spewing out of me and that i needed to get rid of it- get it out of me.

Angry at all the therapists who didn't fix me .
Im sorry tired. Its such a shame, and to not be able to function despite being valuable and insightful.
Insight isn't enough when it isn't enough to fix the pain. I really hope you believe that you are valuable.
Also, anger might be a part of you you always put away, and now its out, its not pleasant for you.
I hope you find ways to be with this anger and to express it. And I'm sorry i cant help, Im kind of at a similar stage to you at the time being.  :hug:

You are helping.  I can get better when I can sort things out with some kind of adult logic. Connect the dots. But I can't seem to get a grip on anger and related themes and I need it out into words. Right now it's just a storm.

Ah, i am glad i am helping somewhat.
Adult logic is very helpful.
I have found out though, that whilst that is one part of recovery- finding out what happened and connecting the dots-
grieving and angering etc. - feeling the emotions in order to gt them out of your system or make them less bothersome is another part.
This may not be your intention at all- i just had to say in case it was, and in case you didnt know this:
I would hate for you to talk yourself out of feeling by using purley logic.
I used to think that logic thinking would make me feel better and would make pain go away, but as i found out it doesnt. Its only part of the whole process.
Do you i ask if you are seeing a therapist to help you with all this?

Not anymore

My last therapist said what you are saying, which is that I am good at talking with adult logic but not at raw emotion

Tired said: "I am good at talking with adult logic but not at raw emotion."

Same here--and I second what Indigo said about the difficulty of getting to the feeling part. I also know I'm what Walker in his book calls the freeze sort. But like he also says, it takes lots of grief and anger to work one's logic to a point where one can feel it, too.

At first, expressing anger seemed silly. I mean, I live alone. Very alone; isolated alone; in the boondocks alone. But I have the memories, often have bad dreams, and loads of pain, so I started raging at the characters that I found there--the abusers. Silly, illogical, odd; but nonetheless I felt better. Nicely offsets the logic. I don't want any more smarts, analysis--I want to feel. The grieving I've been doing for decades, but in an offhanded way, too.

At the risk of sounding "logical", my hangup to the anger part was a remnant of the dire consequences from all the old stuff that started the cycle in the first place. I guess another good anger valve was via this site; finally I could express, despite my doubts in doing so, some rage among others who "get it" and won't condemn me.

For me, the takeaway is self-compassion. Un-learning the self-hate that rattled me this whole life. So far.

 

i got a phone call from a relative informing me that they are going to a wedding. this is a teen nephew that calls me once a week to chat.  he said you should go but you probably aren't going to. then he took this tone, saying, you should get out of your hole and just go. i said i'm not in a hole, i actually have walls above ground. then he said why do you hate your family so much.  he said you aren't going to see grandma are you. i just said no.  i also said i don't hate them it's more complicated than that. if the wedding was down the road i would go. i said the niece who is getting married has been out of touch for years and i didn't know about the wedding until he told me.

it occured to me that he must have overheard things said by other people. it sounded like he was reciting something. it was odd and made me upset.  i couldn't really answer him because i felt like he wasn't saying those words. 

the truth is that going places is hard for me.

i'm angry that no one ever asks me how i'm feeling and no one considers that maybe depression or something like that is what is keeping me from going.  forget that no one visits me.  i never make demands on other people like you should come over or whatever.  it seems like they just assume i'm being standoffish even though it's been pretty well established that i have depression and my family isn't stupid they know what depression means. who doesn't but i'm just saying.  they should know better. the reason they don't say i'm sorry you're feeling bad and can't travel is because they look down on people like me. people with limitations who decide it's better for their kids to stay put and not socialize and maintain their sanity rather than traveling across the country to visit relatives even if their kids are on drugs or whatever problems they have.  they have problems.  they just don't put their kids first. 

i have limited energy and it's devoted to getting dressed, eating sometimes, feeding my child.  i have tried to explain this to people and i remember using an example of socks saying i can't find clean socks . this friend i was talking to said that's an excuse you can wear dirty socks.  i don't know why people think that i'm making excuses and let's say i am. telling me doesn't help.

imagine losing a leg.  plenty of people do just fine with one leg. i've seen people ski on one leg.  but most people struggle and telling someone to just get on with life is cruel.

 :thumbup: for how you handled the phone call. I especially commend you for telling him you don't hate, that it's more complicated than that.

In his 'defense', as the saying goes, he's just a teen. So he's just trying to make sense of a non-sensible world. A transition we all had to make at that age, no? I think it's pretty awesome he calls 'crazy', 'hateful' auntie anyway, and speaks with you on what must be confusing for him as well. He must like and appreciate you.
This is not to say your feelings and thoughts you had during and after the call are somehow 'wrong'.  :hug:

So few people who reach out to you, and having so much difficulty in reaching out yourself: I can relate.
It's been 7 months now since I got the results of my SCID-II test, and except for one dear friend, nobody else has even asked me how it was to even take such a test. Not even interested in the procedure (which would still be a 'distant' and therefore 'safe' subject I would say) let alone what it has done with me that I even took the path, how it was for me to even consider I could have a Personality Disorder, and to have to contemplate that the result could actually be: "Mr. Dutch, you have XPD."
I guess they are happy I'm 'sane', and that's it for them... And I should just happily move on now, it's what they can do too, no?

I think that in general people don't want to be confronted with illness, setbacks, catastrophes etc. since it confronts them with their own 'mortality', non-control over matters that count.
Just like most people are just bystanders when an accident happens on the street... Very few actually reach out a helping hand, even if it is just holding the hand of a victim until the ambulance arrives is all there is to do.

So, here's to holding hands, Tired.  :waveline:

hey tired, i am holding your hand too... you did well, and i don't blame you for feeling upset. know what you mean about the way some folks treat mental illness and stuff, my B is one, and he is so dismissive and hurtful i went NC earlier this year. 

going places, - yep, i am the same.  going to the shops for too long gets me anxious. i know exactly how you feel. and the socks thing, too ( my thing is clean crockery!).  you're not alone in these things.

what you say about the one leg thing, well, it's not that different. my ex was in a wheelchair for most of our marriage and some people were appalling towards him. 

probable some people just don't like or maybe fear anyone who is different or who requires them to look at difficult things. self compassion is an art form we all need to cultivate to be able to cope with those types.

however, we do have allies, and people who are kind, even tho sometimes it feels they are in the minority.  another reason why this forum is so valuable. and we are your allies, dear heart.  big  :hug: :hug: :hug: to you

Thank you
I usually cope with that feeling of being alone by withdrawing from everyone but this way if I don't feel alone with my problems maybe I won't withdraw. There's nothing necessarily wrong with being a hermit but I have to work. If I win the big jackpot lottery I will change my name and buy a cabin somewhere but so far I haven't had the guts to walk up to a lottery counter. That's just too much human contact. 

I have two clients today. I have one friend I've talked about who was a vet and I feel like he's either annoyed with me or worried and I can't tell because he's hard to read and I'm paranoid. It's depressing me and scaring me. Like I don't know if I'm going to be abandoned in the middle of a war zone which is what my life is right now.

My mother sent me a package of crap. Yeah ok a gift box but it's all crap and I wanted money. Sounds horrible but that's all I want. I'm a monster for being so hateful.

not a monster, just poor  :stars:... !  never mind, a gift pack is better than a spit in the eye, i guess :bigwink: -  was there anything nice in it??

the lottery would be wonderful, oh yeah. but like you say, ticket needed pref without having to go to a shop... :doh:  ...sigh...

would you ever feel able to ask your vet friend if he is upset so you can get rid of that bit of worry?   :hug: :hug:

Quote from: tired on October 23, 2015, 01:22:16 PM
My mother sent me a package of crap. Yeah ok a gift box but it's all crap and I wanted money.  Sounds horrible but that's all I want. I'm a monster for being so hateful.

OMG, my NPDM used to send us parcels of crap all the time and I would feel so guilty for not being grateful. Then I figured out the parcels had everything to do with her addiction to shopping (she loved anything on sale so we received some very strange items over the years), and more importantly her being a covert Narcissist (what a good, loving M because she sends parcels, never mind that it was nothing we needed or wanted or that she bought with us in mind).  FWIW your reaction is probably spot on.   

My mother is asking family members to ask me if I got her package . I finally said enough of this. It's silly.

Work is going really well. I feel like I know what I'm doing. I think what changed is that I'm doing it my way rather than trying to be someone I'm not.  I thought, I will just offer what I know, my best self, and charge what I have to charge to survive, and see what happens.   My goal which is almost within reach is 300 a week, not much, but for me it's a lot. I've never had a job.

Instead of focusing on what I'm not and where I'm lacking (that's a long list!) I'm just doing what I'm good at.  It's ok to specialize right?  Haha.

 :thumbup:

QuoteI'm just doing what I'm good at.  It's ok to specialize right?  Haha.

:yes:  ;D

arpy:  there were some horrible and somewhat revealing pieces of clothing and a bag of nuts. i wish i was joking. i guess it could be benign; sending me some clothes she found at goodwill is not totally out of character and gifts of food aren't either. but when you think about how she basically called me a whore, it sounds more fitting to say she sent me some slutty clothes and a sack of nuts.

and i have asked my friend a lot if he's angry and he always says no. it almost became a weekly ritual over the years.  i finally decided that i shouldn't ask anymore. he once said, i'm not angry because i get where you're coming from and because you do so much for me.  i don't know if he understands completely but i think he understands how a person might act one way or another and because of that is very forgiving generally.   and also i know, now, that i feel guilty when i'm angry at him subconsciously and the reason for that is because i don't want to be angry at my mom and i'd rather be angry at anyone else in the world.  i feel guilty when i can't be honest with myself and put the blame where it belongs.  the guilt is that tiny voice saying you know better than to stay in denial; you've been through too much therapy and you know better.

Ive been away so missed the convo on this thread, but Arpy1, I'm sorry for all this that has happened / is happening.

feel guilty when i can't be honest with myself and put the blame where it belongs.  the guilt is that tiny voice saying you know better than to stay in denial; you've been through too much therapy and you know better.

My thoughts are that it takes time. I would try not to be so hard on yourself, if you can.
Recovery is a process, and just because you know what you *should do*, doesnt mean you are actually *ready* to do it yet. Its a total journey and its ok to be stuck in a stage for however long it takes. Sometimes, knowledge isn't enough to take away the pain.
Blaming your mum is hard! Accepting the harsh reality is hard!
Maybe your inner child is having a hard time with it. I have been told by my T, that the inner child is always hopeful for change and for things to be better, even though your adult self might know different.
You are only human to want your mum to be the one who isn't to blame.
I have hardly started and i still cant blame my und Npd mum.
So yeah, i understand the guilt. During flashbacks, I feel a split, one side - the logical adult sane side, may know its a flashback, but the feelings persist and they get let out on the wrong people.
It takes time. (i hope that sounded encouraging and not like a lecture. Lecture wasnt what i was aiming for)  :hug: :hug:

I don't feel like a nice person right now. Sometimes I do things that aren't in line with my kindest self . I get a little rough around the edges.  I feel bad and I feel like my mom who thinks she's funny but isn't .

Been having nightmares about yelling at my daughter and being a terrible mom.

Feeling more certain I have no desire to talk to mom.  Tired sad guilty depressed want to sleep for a week .

Hey there tired,

Im so sorry you are feeling so *.
I dont know what to say to make it better for you, but were here for you.

This might not get rid of the feeling you have of being a bad person, but I dont think you are a bad person, because you are doing recovery work, unlike your mother (if indeed she hasn't done any), and what you are doing beyond brave.
If you are feeling innately bad, i struggle with this too, so I feel bad telling you that you are not innately bad, when I have a hard time believing this myself. Nothing anyone says to me will make me believe different, but I find that this *feeling* of being bad, isn't based in logic. Still, the feeling is strong.

Maybe you feel like you mum, but you are also very different from her I'm sure, in lots of ways.
This, not doing things that are in line with you kindest self, weather you mean to you, or others or both, is not your fault, its very hard, and you were wired to be that way from your past.
You are working on it, and that counts.

Sometimes too, we can act like our parents, as we are trying to repeat trauma, and we have learned to act and respond that way. This is not our fault and learning how to deal differently is what is needed.

I am sorry about the nightmares. Seems to me that you are worried that you will yell at your daughter, anger is hard when you feel there is no place to put it and it is all consuming. Perhaps that anger is screaming to be let out.
Do you feel like a bad person for having all this anger?
Its so sad if so, but I *get it.*

By working through everything, even though it takes time, you are setting a wonderful example to your daughter, and an example of how to be kind.
Is there any way you can express all the anger inside of you safely?
I hope you daughter knows that its ok to be angry. If her mum expresses her anger in a safe way, she will learn that it is ok to do that too.

I hope that the guilt doesnt persist. I am angry too at my parents neglect and I also feel that i will never find someone who loves me or who is intreated in me. We just need to find the right people.
And its understandable that you might not want to speak to your mum.

Im so sorry for the ramble. Its hard to deconstruct from your post exactly what lead you to feel this way..and I dont want to come across as asking too many questions.

Just know that I understand, and Im here with you. You are not alone in this, although I know it can feel so.
If you can do so, take some deep breaths, and comfort that child inside of you. Do one thing that is nice for her today and dont rush yourself.   :hug: :hug:

You are (all of you ) immensely helpful and in fact the questions are very helpful.
You ask how I can express anger in a better way and the answer is I don't know ! That's a problem!

Indigo-Keeping everything in the front of my mind helps. You have a way of spelling it all out and that's where it can be understood and not allowed to affect me. I tend to bury things and that's a problem- uncovering it and saying yes this is what is happening makes it less of a controlling force.

tired, I am sooooo glad you say that. Huge relief!
How about hitting some pillows?
I tried this and i screamed and then when the anger subsided i shook and cried.
Even if you disassociate during, its progress.
And it will get that angry energy out of you.

I would if you can, try to feel and express and not use logic to get rid of it all- tempting i know, its a balance trying to keep things in perspective with the facts of what is happening and why, and also expressing those emotions.
Its almost impossible i find , to see *why* and where things come from- when you are *in it*.
Let us know how you are doing with this.  :hug:

So everything was going great with my life and I got some stupid news and I got so angry I was physically ill.  Maybe it was coming down from ritalin or maybe just pure anger. 

Here's the backstory: when I was first getting divorced my niece, who is an adult, gave me a lot of pep talk and helped me here and there getting my own computer and random things like that.  So later, when she asked me to cosign on a student loan I said ok. She said no one else has good credit and at the time I did because I had been married.  She also said don't tell anyone. 

Anyway last year she didn't make her payments and got into trouble.  I should have paid it myself, I know all that but anyway.  She said it's their mistake but dad (my brother) is helping me figure it out.  I told my brother and he seemed like he didn't know about it so I said I'll just make a payment using money my mom sent me (another backstory: I have gone nc and mom sent me money perhaps to manipulate me dunno; i cashed the check anyway because i feel like she owes me. anyway.).  I made the payment and said you guys can pay me back and a week later after a bunch of shenanigans (how hard is it to mail a check?) they finally sent it. 

Then she said she talked to them and it was their mistake and I didn't need to pay, and they will fix my credit. I said ok fine.  I trusted her to fix the problem and I didn' t make payments or check the account. THen I get another message this week about the account and I asked her whatsup and she said oh they messed up with autopay. 

This morning I was baking brownies and I thought, no way.  She's full of it.  I got angry and went online and saw it was past due and not on autopay.   i had told her, next time tell me if something happens. I said I can make payments if I have to. it affects my life even if it's their mistake. I sent her a text this morning as I was waiting for the brownies to bake, asking whatsup (again) and got no answer.  so i just made a payment of almost 400 dollars.  Which is about how much I've made in this entire month. 

Anyway now I feel better since i"ve taken control of this.  I am pretty sure my brother will feel guilty and pay me back eventually and this way I feel like I am in control.  As I'm sitting here I feel like the acid in my stomach is no longer eating away at the entire inside of my body.  I was so angry, I went to riteaid to get some frosting and totally forgot about it.  i got the candy corn and the napkins and forgot the frosting. so we ended up shoving a candy corn into each brownie like a tombstone.  looks like a zombie graveyard. 

i recall what my nephew said. "why do you hate your family so much".  i think i do hate my family.  i love my kids but i hate the whole lot of my siblings and their families.  they are all lumped together because they are all involved in the same family drama and unless they cut off all contact they will be affected in ways I just can't tolerate.  you can't associate with certain types of people and hope to be normal. 

if it's possible to have a heart attack from rage it just might happen to me.  i want to cry but i have to make a halloween cat costume now.

Noticing lately how much I give in to what others want instead of doing what I want and noticing my willingness to say no.

I'm surprised at how I feel about this, like saying no would be so easy. Surprised at how good it feels. 

Maybe I'm just fed up with being a doormat. New level achieved.

hey tired, just catching up as i have been in the doldrums for a couple weeks and missed the last few posts.  what can i say? i feel for you and i hope you are managing to be kind to yourself. kudos for getting p....d off with feeling like the doormat.  you go girl!!

got to say this, i think you are growing alot lately, even tho i know you have been finding things so hard.  just wanted you to know that, so you can feel a bit encouraged becos i don't think it's easy to see it for ourselves sometimes. your kids have got a good mum who deals with her stuff. try and believe that (i also know how hard it is to do that, but try anyway!)

much support,  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

arpy1: thank you for saying that i'm making progress.  it's hard to tell sometimes.

i seem to have a setback every time i have some moment of feeing successful.  i was just telling someone how great work is going then i got a message from a client that her neck hurts.  i feel terrible.  sometimes exercises hurt the neck and i suppose it's not entirely avoidable. but people come to me because i claim to move slowly to avoid injury.

i think i have this problem:  when i'm training people i have a plan and i know i should move them slowly.  sometimes though i feel like i'm barely doing anything. i think, here is someone who came to me to make them work hard and what am i doing? a couple of stretches, a tiny weight?  they want to feel like they are moving.  so i try to add in a couple of things and i always ask "do you think this movement would be ok" if there's a question.  then it turns out, no that movement isn't ok.

the truth is that my neck hurts a lot of the time, and i'm often told to do things (by my workout buddy who can run and jump and all kinds of stuff) but when i try, i get hurt. it goes away and i remind myself not to push myself.  so maybe it's just how it goes sometimes. i read that even if the training program is designed to prevent injury, the rate of injury in the first 6 months is something like 90 percent.  i don't know what this means exactly, because it's vague. what's an injury worth reporting?

i hate it when clients don't feel good after a workout and it makes me so depressed i feel like i have no business trying to help anyone. 

i want to cut through the self-criticism and figure out if there's anything i can do differently. i know there is; i can write down the routine more meticulously and not stray from it.  i tend to write it but go by how the client is feeling which usually leads to toning it down, rather than speeding it up. 

i'm depressed about this and worried.  maybe i'm too sick to be doing this.  maybe i should pick something more benign where it's impossible to hurt anyone.

i know how easy it is to lose confidence with stuff like this  :sadno:.  it triggers so many critic attacks it must be hard to cope with.  :hug: :hug:

from where i am standing though, it sounds to me like you are a responsive, flexible trainer and that's a good thing. and imo, exercise, sorry to say, does hurt sometimes. muscles and ligaments that don't want to move, haven't necessarily been moved much for a while, suddenly get asked to move and they don't like it. that's my experience, anyway. i always get paid back with soreness when i take another step with it.  doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong. 

i only ever got one 'injury' from it and that was when i tried too heavy a weight... hurt my back, no exercise for a few months. but my back is problematic anyway, so i didn't blame the trainer. i just waited till it improved and took more care next time.   

try and hang on to the fact that this situation has triggered you and deal with it as such, rather than letting it make you catastrophise and think you're doing it all wrong.  you are good at what you do.

much support  :hug: :hug:

i wrote her back and said i would feel better if she asked a doctor before we started again and she just needed to rest it for a week.  i said i looked through a list of what we did and i think i know what might have aggravated things and we will tone down the workouts until it settles down.  if i injured someone bad enough to be out of commission for weeks, let alone months, i would be mortified. 

i think what bothers me is that i worry that i am not capable of thinking straight.  the only yardstick i have is that as far as personal trainers go, i am very careful and responsive and i have more education.  i have this wish that i would have a personal assistant who is familiar with cptsd issues and can follow me around and point out anything i'm doing that is off.  i wish i knew someone who also has the same problem who can see what i'm doing and tell me if i'm seeing myself clearly.

on another topic my nutrition is so bad.  whenever i don't eat enough i get sick and there's a flu going around.  i get calories, through juice mostly, but that's not food.  i'm using it to prevent myself from binging at least for a few days at a time, because when i binge i feel bloated and i can't function.  i get so paranoid about food and even vitamins. i wish i could find liquid vitamins that i can add to juice . i'm sure i can. i'm even afraid of coffee now so i had redbull not that it's any better.  i'm what they call a weird eater. maybe i should take lysine; they say it prevents the flu.

ok i have a client, and she seems happy with the last two sessions we have, and wants to pay for 6 sessions at once which i don't require so i guess i'm not so bad. i think i have imposter syndrome and i think people like what i seem to be but then they will find out the truth and run away for their own protection. how does one know if they have imposter syndrome or if they are really just a big faker?  i think i'm a faker.  i've made a ton of forms and things to make my fitness training systematic and that actually helps because it keeps the emotional me out of the picture so as long as i only do what my forms say, i'm confident .

i think i'm upset about my mom and i'm obsessed with wishing i would get that call-she is old, over 80 now, and i just want it to end. it's a bad thing to say but i just want this drama to be over.  maybe if she just said "i won't talk to you ever again" i would feel better, like it's done .  she used to tell me, you're so wishy washy.  i don't know why i just remembered that. you know what, she got that from charlie brown and lucy, where she tells him he's wishy washy.  why would you say that to a kid, especially if you just said it to be funny and use a phrase you just learned?  is it against the rules of the forum to say i hate her? 

What you feel is what you feel, tired. and it's not like you're going to act out is it! the whole mum thing is such a big trigger for you, no wonder you feel weary from it all.  sending you a big :bighug: from me, to help you to remember to be compassionate to yourself.

Quotei wrote her back and said i would feel better if she asked a doctor before we started again and she just needed to rest it for a week.  i said i looked through a list of what we did and i think i know what might have aggravated things and we will tone down the workouts until it settles down.

perfectly reasonable and professional response, imo!.  and proof that in your professional capacity you most certainly were thinking straight!  i really understand why you're feeling insecure about it, but i firmly believe you are a.o.k on this.

re the imposter thing, i guess most of us here can relate to feeling like this. it sucks, but i reckon it's more to do with flashbacking than with truth.  maybe if you tried to treat it as an EF and manage it that way? don't know, it might help.

on the food issue, i am currently (after months of drug-induced over-eating!)  not wanting to eat at all. so i am going to buy some Complan and drink my meals whenever i can't face eating solid stuff. that and multivits and i can't worry about it any more.   :stars:

more  :hug: :hug: :hug: to you, keep going, you are more ok than you can feel at the moment.  support n peace x

I had a bad cold and didn't have clients last week. I started to question myself and my ability to work but I went back to my idea of doing what I can and no more no less. I'm a fitness trainer and I'm good at listening and solving everyday problems. I'm not the greatest at any of those and I make mistakes but that doesn't mean I shouldn't work at all.

so the client i had who had neck pain ended up with a two week migraine and went to the doctor.  she messaged me yesterday and said the doctor cleared her for exercise and she is coming back.  i feel a lot better. she's a very cautious person who has been through some car accidents and worries a lot about her neck and for her to come back must mean she's pretty ok with me. but i'm going to really concentrate on everything i'm doing and not move so fast. i feel like i don't deserve any money so i tend to try to cram a lot into a session, to make it worth their while, but this end up translating into people moving too fast, or too much.

anyway. my mother sent me another message (the third so far) this time apologizing for anything she said and telling me to forgive her. not asking me but telling me. i mean if it were me i would just say sorry and leave it at that but she wants something from me because again, it's about her.

her voicemails have been pretty amusing in a way. the first one was a little snippy, demanding i call because after all she's my mother.  the second one was a "woe is me" message, sounding miserable and pathetic .  the last one was apologetic.  but they were all demanding.  you must call me/pick up the phone/forgive me.  it made me feel like the whole point of the message was to get what she wants.  it wasn't just an unconditional statement of something. like, hi, hope you're ok, thinking about you, love you.  more like, i miss you , i want to talk to you, therefore you must call me.

so glad about the client, tired, hopefully you'll feel more confident with her now.  remember it's more about quality not quantity! she obviously values what you do, so what you earn from her is just that - Earned!. you earned it becos you're good at what you do and she thinks so too.  just had to say that!!   :yourock:

you are so wise to your mum's manipulative behaviours!  i have to admit, it sounds just like my ex's   :doh:.  i wish i'd got wise to him before i did, but i guess it's a learning process like anything else.  keep strong, dear tired, and remember it's right to protect yourself. that's the most important thing. her feelings and demands are hers alone, but your emotional safety is paramount. supporting you mega lots. :hug: :hug:

Quote from: arpy1 on November 10, 2015, 02:53:52 PM
:yourock:

:yeahthat:

now that i feel more confident and secure about work i am returning to the mess that is my daughter's education.  i feel like life is just one failure after another and when i fix one thing, another falls apart. last year i didn't even think about work at all so i could help her with schoolwork.  then i got back to work, and now i realize she is not learning anything in chemistry. i know it's my fault. i don't know why i missed this but i guess being preoccupied with my own stuff is probably the cause. 

i'm ashamed of myself right now and whenever i get mad at my mother i think, well what am i doing?  my kid failed a chemistry test and i just realized it now.  she started to cry, telling me she studied a lot, even more than she needed to and doesn't understand why she got such a bad grade.

i have to sit and figure this out. we had a chem tutor but she was unreliable and finally sent me a text saying she was going into rehab haha.  figures. i should probably just help her myself which means i have to brush up on the topic. 

i feel so guilty about all the time i spend on myself.  i've been angry all day at my mom and how self centered she is and yet when i think of my day it's all full of stuff i want to do.  ok so it's laundry and dishes and one client.  and i took a nap because i have a cold.

i think--- i think the problem is attention deficit and a tremendous amount of trouble staying on track with anything. i go off and do laundry and forget that i had planned to do something else.

i have lists but maybe not enough.  i tend to avoid them because they make me feel discouraged when i don't finish what's on them.

i'm a bundle of nerves. i was upset about the test grade and got mad then i said i'm not mad at you because you did your job and studied. i'm just mad at the situation and i feel like i let you down.  i hate yelling at her and i hate making her feel bad and it all gives me a headache and i don't likebeing that person. i'm not that person. i'm actually a calm person deep down, i swear.  but on the outside i appear to be a disaster. 

hey hon, sorry you are feeling so cr*p   :sadno:.  been feeling pretty similar myself lately, majorly triggered and ef's all day every day. wearisome, eh? listen, i don't want to be invasive in your journal so if you would rather i don't respond like this, do say, won't you? it's just i seem to relate to loads of stuff with you and it sparks things for me. but only if it is helpful for you, ok? let me know.

i had two underachievers and major headaches with both of them.  :stars: from the perspective of hindsight, i can only say, tired, maybe try not to take the blame for stuff that isn't yours.

from the 'rational' standpoint, which i know doesn't help a lot when you're so triggered, but i'll put it in anyway for when you feel a bit better:  there could be a zillion reasons why the test grade was low: she might have felt crummy that day, had pmt, got nerves, had a falling out with a classmate, or just maybe had studied stuff that didn't appear in that partic paper...  and none of them are your or her fault.

i think you are amazing that you are willing to get down and help her even if it means having to brush up your chemistry, especially if you have trouble concentrating. wow. i wish i had a mum who'd done that.  and i know how hard it is, becos i tried to do it for mine and it wasn't easy.

it might help to contact her chem teacher and see if she can shed any light or maybe help in some way? depends on the school and the teacher, i know.

i wish it were easy but it isn't. but you are not and never were a failure. you have nothing to beat yourself up over. honest. you are conscientious and despite dealing with a very difficult illness in cptsd you are doing your best and actually doing everything right as far as i can see. no one could ask for more.

all i can suggest is poke a big stick at your inner critic who just loves to try and kick your feet out from under you. you are ok. promise. :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

i feel better knowing someone is reading it otherwise i get that nobody cares feeling.

I realized something . It occurred to me that when I get irritable with my daughter it's because I don't feel confident in my parenting.  I don't feel free to be the kind of parent I know I should be and want to be so I have this anxiety and in that moment I'm not really clear about what I'm saying.  I'm not confident because 1. My mother flat out told me I'm not good at things and the list is long and 2. If I do act like a good parent it will make my mother seem like a monster in comparison so instead I try to be less than I am . So in comparison my mom can seem like she made a few mistakes . 

Quote from: tired on November 12, 2015, 10:13:21 AM
2. If I do act like a good parent it will make my mother seem like a monster in comparison so instead I try to be less than I am . So in comparison my mom can seem like she made a few mistakes .

Wow. What a tough thing to realize, but also so beautiful, dear Tired.  :applause:
I hope and wish this will be of comfort to you:
"I hereby give you permission to be the mom who you are and the mom you want to be, regardless if this will make your own mom look like a monster. You are not responsible for making your mom look like a monster by what you do, that has been her responsibility and doing all along.
You may scare away 'monster-mom' by being the mom you are. Shine your light! You don't have to scare her away by being not the mom that you are, by keeping the curtains drawn."

:hug:
I bet you are a great mom.  :yes: :wave:

 :yeahthat:  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

the better things get the more i get depressed. i mean overall i feel better, not depressed generally. but when something goes well i get a depressive reaction. i tell myself i wasn't perfect and of course no one is so it's probably likely that it went well but i question it.

in contrast when i mess up in a huge huge way i almost get more energized. i can relate to fixing disasters.  i know what to do when i hit rock bottom.  it makes sense to me; i'm a failure and of course i failed but i'm also a survivor so i will survive.  my definition of myself is someone who survived horrible things and now miraculously has survived against all odds. 

the truth is that some bad things happened but also i had some opportunities not everyone has, and i did ok with it more or less.

i don't know what to do with normal, which seems to be doing mostly ok, sometimes great and sometimes not great.

New Years resolutions are all about small life skills like

I will brush my teeth every morning

I'm going to tackle one a week

Hi Tired, I just wanted to let you know I read your journal. And give you support to stand up for your rights against your mother. I hope you don't mind me saying I'm sick of her just reading about her transparent attempts to manipulate you. She reminds me of my grandmother who's 96 and I have NC with. I felt a lot of guilt about the NC but I finally turned it around and now I say (to myself) "Hey, if she'd rather go to her grave, being all stubborn, never giving a true apology, or acknowledging any of the crap she did, that's her problem."   :yes:

Thank you
I'm starting to feel ok about ignoring her . I feel like I needed to be away from the whole family to get away from the sort of brainwashing going on. The voices telling me I'm a terrible person for abandoning my own mother.
Breaking away and talking to people who see things differently helps. Every day  I'm away from her I feel better.

Lately I haven't been posting here and instead I've been posting in other threads. I feel guilty being so negative all the time so I don't want to put it all in one place!  I feel guilty about having so many pages of journal entries as of I'm using up too much space.

I want to tell my parents "you learned nothing from me".  I wanted them to have a chance to be parents and I tried to tell them how. I think I'm a fairly interesting person and they missed out on knowing me. I would have taken care of them in their old age. I am fun to be around and they missed out on having a daughter to chat with.

I ordered Pete walkers book on Amazon and I hope it helps. I think I'm making progress. When I look back even six months I see how much I've changed .  If I look back a year I think oh geez what was I thinking . This gives me hope. Who knows where I will be in a year.

well i just got the book.
i had a depressing moment and i sat there thinking, i'm having an ef. what is this about. "i feel useless and stupid".  what is my reaction type right now? i don't know. freeze. 

Hi Tired, my mother was like yours and my family was like yours. I left her alone a long time ago and I don't look back anymore. She passed and I didn't go to her funeral. I hadn't felt anything for so long that it wasn't worth it. I did stay home from work and I did grieve alone for a few days. You are not a terrible person for abandoning your own mother or even just thinking about it all. It's horrible to be manipulated and to feel like you truly were never mothered in a good way. I tell my friends who have good mothers that I envy them. I felt like you for so long, confused, the guilt, the shame, the freezing ... then came the thaw and my life changed for the good. There is hope so don't give up. Continue the fight. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself daily and first. Take care of "you" because she didn't and "you" need that more than anything.

It's ok just to be whatever. You have nothing to prove to no-one. You are here, you are loved by your children and you have a right to anything anyone else does. Your mother does not have the right to emotionally abuse you so do not let her do that to you. You will have to let go completely and stop looking for her approval because it was never there. She is incapable of caring about anything but herself. And it's ok to be on your own. Many others have made it because we took care of ourselves and loved ourselves and we don't abuse ourselves with bad thoughts (well that is the goal).

Find the beauty in simple things. Be grateful for what you have in the present and move forward in life building on those grateful things. Life is beautiful and guess what? I found later in life about ten years ago, a substitute mother that needed a substitute daughter so my life has come full circle. When my mumzie passes, I will most like grieve more than I did with my own mother who was never a mother to me. I found my people and so will you but for now you might need to walk alone for awhile to find your path. You really are not alone but it feels like that for sure because there will be helpers along the way like us - but it is still and always will be, your journey.

I marvel at my age at how far I've come, never thinking I would make it this far in my life and be aware of so much. Never stop learning. My realization started very young and so did the research.

I will be back but need to run for now. Stay sweet and love yourself!

V

My family is drawing me into drama. I responded to an email that seemed thoughtful and made me think maybe this is a turning point.

Lesson: just because someone apologizes and sounds nice, don't assume they have become the kind of person you can talk to.

I feel triggered and I also feel guilty for once triggering someone on this forum.

I ate a bunch of crap because I'm kind of a bad person and also I feel trapped in this email exchange I wish I never started with my brother. 

I suddenly realized my house is a total mess. How did this happen.

realized some things

i'm smart but make myself sound dumb and guess what. people think i'm dumb.

if i can be ok without a mom, then i can be ok without anything. i mean whatever i think i have to have, i'm probably wrong.

i'm very impressionable somehow in that if i visualize what i want it's more likely to happen. if i have good role models in my vision i follow them and vice versa.

generally, it's not good for me to look for help. it makes me stop using my own brain. on the other hand when i get into my head i lose perspective and i get drawn into some delusional ideas and sure i know i'm doing it, but a few days can go by and i fall behind on things while i'm in this funk.  so i don't know how to handle it.  i think having only a limited number of people/books/etc to look to for guidance is probably better. 

in a week my mom will be far away from me and maybe i'll start healing.  i feel old.

Quote from: tired on October 02, 2015, 05:23:16 PM
I'm full of rage.  I don't know what to do about it.  On any given day, I tend to disconnect from people and accept my status as a person alone, and that makes me feel a lot better.  I don't expect anyone to care and that feels like a relief.

One way to look at rage is that it can be a source of intense energy if you divert it into constructive activity.  Many people have found that exercise helps immensely, rather than just sitting there fuming and hurting and, often, sobbing.  I don't know how old you are or what your physical condition may be, but have you thought of running or fast walking, weight training, dancing (even if all by yourself), or swimming?  What I have discovered for myself is that any kind of action helps, especially if I apply the action to a problem I have been avoiding.  For me, it's probable that the rage is never going to go away (way too much **** over a long lifetime) so I try to turn that fire into constructive action.  This really helps.  And if I don't do something like that, I am apt to turn the rage on myself.  We all know how destructive that can be!

Agreed
When i make that switch from frantic pacing or binge eating to useful action I feel a turnaround . Rage is normal or I should say inevitable. Helplessness is not.
Lately I haven't been taking action as much as I did in my younger years. I'm healthy enough to exercise someone vigorously. Or do a lot of housework that is active and satisfying like scrubbing all the floors. Sometimes having that feeling of disaster that needs a complete overhaul gives me the energy. I'm good at disasters. I'm not good at feeling helpless or letting go in the sense of not doing anything because nothing can be done.

I sometimes imagine burning or destroying sentimental things from my parents. I think about it then by the time I'm done imagining it I'm exhausted and I don't have the drive to carry it out. I prefer the actions that are productive.

I'm tired and anxious

Thank you for all the input by the way

its Monday and I have one or two days until situations will make it very clear to mom that I won't see her. In other words in one or two days all her hope will be gone and according to my brother she will be heartbroken . How will I feel then. Better because it will be over or worse because I did a horrible thing

I saw an old dr Phil episode with a selfish mother theme. The daughters were angry and the mother seemed oblivious to the point where I felt sorry for her. I believed her when she said she didn't intentionally hurt them. One daughter said she's got something wrong in the head because she denied things and didn't sound like she was lying consciously. The daughters seemed like they had a point and all but they also seemed to lack any compassion. They were grown ups but talked like adolescents. The mom was not a mom but wasn't a monster either. Dr Phil tried to make it more sensational but it just sounded sad. It was her responsibility to be a good mom and she failed at many things but they were mean.

I guess I never wanted to confront my mother like that. She did what she did. I can't be around her because I have trouble functioning with her in my life . I can't be around a lot of things and I always struggle to function; she's one of many things that had to go. 

The mom on the show didn't have the expectations my mother has and didn't sound angry. Just confused. So I guess that's the difference. I thought my mom was just immature like the woman on the show. but the last time I saw her she blamed me for so much. I was willing to let things go but she was so mean.