Hi all,
I'm sorry if this issue has already been raised, but I tried searching and couldn't find a reference to it.
I was just wondering how people stop their EF's? I've tried the Pete Walker steps to managing a FB many times, but it doesn't seem to do much good.
The only thing that seems to work for me is finding out what triggered the particular one I'm in. For instance, I was in an extended one for days and until just now when I worked out that it was the anniversary of a certain event that triggered my CPTSD, it wouldn't stop. It was actualy THE event that triggered my CPTSD.
Actually the Pete Walker steps are helping. The reason they weren't before is because I wasn't following them by allowing myself to be the victim of unfair behaviour again. I was re-enacting my trauma again at the hands of a therpist who was shaming me. Now that I've let that part of me be heard, the steps very much working.
Thank you for the original post and the update - it's really hlepful and I'm so glad the steps are working. :thumbup:
Thanks, Sasha.
For me practicing mindfulness and deep breathing has worked to help calm me some enough to focus. Hope you're doing better these days.
I know we want to stop them. But do you think that we are exprreiencing them for a reason
I do. Its like the mind is releasing memories from the past, weather that be only feelings (emotional flashbacks), and i know it doest feel like a release.
I think its the mind / past / inner child that has been triggered and is remembering some painful stuff. She is trying to tell us something abut the past and also abut the situation we are in today, as we still have the feelings we had as a child.
Its frustrating i know, that you dont always know what the flashback is flashing back to, and its frustrating when you cant work anything out from having the flashback and cant learn anything from it.
Me we should stop them unless we are getting help for them and the issues.
I want them to stop, but think my inner child is trying to protect me, even if it is not in accordance with what is actually happening now, ie. i am safe now...my T said sometimes it is about the present that is bothering us for good reason, but that it also reminds us of the past.
Quote from: Indigo on August 18, 2015, 09:59:17 AM
my T said sometimes it is about the present that is bothering us for good reason, but that it also reminds us of the past.
One of the most revealing thoughts/realizations I have had during this time of coming Out of the FOG (a process that started 4 years ago and is still continuing) was: "It's not that I struggle with what has happened/my past in my dysfunctional FOO, but that I struggle with the ever continuing dysfunctionality in my FOO."
So yes, I agree wholeheartedly with your T's statement that it is about "the present that is bothering us for good reason". And it has been the same in the past, and I have never learned
then to act adequately. And/or my adequate responses (perhaps even intuitive/natural responses) then were suppressed, so I lost the ability/will to use them, even now.
I've been struggling with this too, but I agree with Indigo. It's happening for a reason, even if it really sucks. It helped me to hear that this morning since EF's have become so prominent lately in my healing.
I also try to practice deep breathing when EF's are happening, like Butterfly says. Good advice. It helps to not let my lid flip while i am in a situation where I need to be there.
I feel like our inner child is needing to express something that has happened. I wanted to just stop all of my EF's before, but I feel like it's my inner child trying to speak out almost, as my body tells the story of what happened, and I can't, won't suppress it any further. So I allow them, though I am not really good at the management of them yet. I think that will come with time and practice.
I feel like Pete Walker's steps are more for working through and managing the EF's, rather than stopping them. They need to be expressed IMO...
I'm going through them a lot lately too. I hope your EF management gets better and easier, and I hope you feel better now.
Best,
K
I just forget i'm in an EF because it feels so constant. I have tried to stop it but the memory of some events just bring on more shame and guilt and hatred of myself its like a circle, the more i try to stop it the more it makes me think and feel the EF. This is what I am struggling with at the moment. Its a good point, was it Indigo who said maybe we are experiencing them for a reason? but i feel we should stop it because it is counter productive and like a rut we need to get out of to be able to grow and connect with the people around us.
One time I was driving, and this powerful song came across the radio by a singer I'd never heard of before. After just a few of the words, I had to pull over and take it all in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80
I've always felt haunted by EF's flashing in and out, back and around, no matter what I'd try in an attempt to stop them. I'm sure there's a reason, as was said, and they're painful with a natural instinct to want them to stop. They don't, we wonder, but maybe it really can only be the mystery laid out in the song.
Love it! :thumbup:
Quote from: woodsgnome on September 07, 2015, 02:22:45 PM
One time I was driving, and this powerful song came across the radio by a singer I'd never heard of before. After just a few of the words, I had to pull over and take it all in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80
I've always felt haunted by EF's flashing in and out, back and around, no matter what I'd try in an attempt to stop them. I'm sure there's a reason, as was said, and they're painful with a natural instinct to want them to stop. They don't, we wonder, but maybe it really can only be the mystery laid out in the song.
I have to say: What a song, sir! :applause:
For me- and you know, I don't quite know if this works for everyone.
::Possible trigger warning::
I treat my CPTSD as an illness. To a "T" the scientific reasoning helps soothe me. I approach depression the same way. It's a sickness, and it's not your personality; it does not define you. It just needs treatment. It has symptoms and they exist in real life.
When I have enough self-awareness to recognize myself in the midst of an EF, and no amount of logic or reason can allow me to backtrack my way through the EF and to some calm space... I eventually can remember--
"Oh yeah. Sometimes I need a doctor for this."
When I know that I can't fix what I'm feeling immediately, it softens. It reminds me that I'm not in immediate danger and there are still things I can do to stop feeling this way for good. You need to go to doctors when you're sick. And being sick is not your fault. These things happen, and that's okay.
My most recent EF that was too bad to digest on my own allowed me to remember that I don't quite have all the answers yet. And that's okay- I don't have to. But there are still things I can do. I followed up with a psychologist's number that I had been procrastinating over, taking action the following day.
The gloom still clings to me a bit while I'm lost in the middle somewhere, like the shadow of a frightened child hanging on my neck and resting in my arms. But I know I'm taking her to see the doctor. She doesn't need to go to the ER because what she has takes a long time to heal, and she wants the right doctor. But I know there are still things I can do to help ease this condition and heal.
I like that, Hypervigilante. :thumbup:
i realise reading this thread that i don't have a handle of EF's at all yet.
i go between two states, either totally wired, constant EF, or else totally flat, probable disassociated. i am in the latter phase at the moment. neither state feels good. when i am wired, i long to numb out. when i am numb, i wish something were happening.
but i don't know any skills, or rather i know the theory, but haven't managed the practice in my lived experience.
if, as has been said here, it is to do with the inner child trying to communicate in real time, i really hope the ict i just embarked on will help.
Good luck, Arpy! I hope it helps, too! Every ounce of self-awareness is a step on the road to recovery! I'm excited for you to begin trying new skills to manage EFs. I think you'll feel proud and excited in a year's time with your own progress. I couldn't have begun EF work without this website, truly.
Thank you, Dutch Uncle. :)
Quote from: KayFly on August 18, 2015, 03:41:29 PM
I feel like Pete Walker's steps are more for working through and managing the EF's, rather than stopping them. They need to be expressed IMO...
That's a great point, Kayfly. It gives me hope and makes me feel like these EF's have some sort of purpose. Thank you and sorry I took so long to reply.
Quote from: arpy1 on September 09, 2015, 10:35:59 AM
i realise reading this thread that i don't have a handle of EF's at all yet.
i go between two states, either totally wired, constant EF, or else totally flat, probable disassociated.
I'm pretty much the same and don't have a handle on EF's yet, so you're not alone, arpy1. Could the flatness you describe be a form of freezing, do you think, where you overly retreat into that 4F response?
I feel like I'm in an EF most of the time. Everytime I know I'm in one I read through the steps. They help to manage it as previously said before, but a lot of the time I remain in them and they don't decrease in intensity until I do something for someone else, so basically relieve some of my co-dependancy issues. It sounds like I'm trying to make a martyr out of myself here, but that's really what is. I think it may also be that people are listening to me, not just co-dependancy. I can only do stuff for myself during a few hours of the day. I feel rubbish if I do stuff for me. I suppose it's a way of self-soothing, to do stuff for others, but I would like the opportunity to do stuff for myself, as well. Does anyone get an EF if they have barely an impulse to do something for themselves?
totally relate to that, no-more-fear! totally. :yes:
in the JP it was taboo to be 'selfish' (which basically meant anything that wasn't giving 100% of your time and energy to 'the brethren' (or 'sistren'... ??? don't think that's a word, but u kno wot i mean) so between that and being full time carer for years to a uNPD or uBPD husband and many other seemingly 'giving' situations, it is very thoroughly entrenched in my thinking that i must never do anything for myself and if i do i must feel guilty and ashamed. i must always meet everyone else's needs before looking at my own. so much guilt and fear there.
the co-dependency issue around 'serving others' i can relate to also, i did it for years with my ex. if i wasn't totally focussed on making it alright for him, i paid for it in silent treatment, moods, etc. so my default was martyrdom, really.
and when i was doing that i didn't have to face myself and the fact that my needs were both ignored and killing me. it made me feel good about myself but i can't kid myself it was a healthy 'good'. in a funny sort of way it might even have been another way of dissociating from what i was really feeling. all part of the co-dependency swamp, i guess :sadno:
i have started to learn about self-compassion and self-protection. and i can manage, now that i am on my own, to self-soothe etc. but it does elicit frequent EF's. and when they get too much, yes, i veg out, switch off, stop thinking and feeling for a while.
i just have to keep working on good honest self care now, and keep on learning about myself, (Pete Walker's book is helping, in small bites only tho, too triggering otherwise!)
Quote from: arpy1 on September 23, 2015, 11:38:33 AM
it made me feel good about myself but i can't kid myself it was a healthy 'good'. in a funny sort of way it might even have been another way of dissociating from what i was really feeling. all part of the co-dependency swamp, i guess :sadno:
Arpy1, that's a really good point that it's not a healthy good. I'm finally learning the difference! ;D Before I didn't have a clue what was good for me. Doing stuff for other's may make me feel good, but a lot of the time, for me, it brings up huge feelings of frustration as I'm ignoring my own needs. That idea of dissociating while we're helping other's makes a lot of sense, too. Fundamentally it's a case of distracting from our own feelings, as you've said. It is so unbelievably hard to do things for myself, but I'm really trying. I keep beating myself up internally for finding it so hard to do things for myself :doh: It's a never ending loop! I need to defeat this vicious ICr. This is a hard road, this recovery!
right with you there, nmf!! :stars: and guilt ( i have named my inner critic the Bitch. and i realised that i have to protect myself from her condemnation and unfair treatment of me. all part of the self compassion/self protection that is my learning curve at the moment.
i guess missbliss, that having someone else around who was grounded and the things you say, might work. having self isolated to the n'th degree tho, the only person around is me! so i have to learn to do it for myself. which is tougher, but probably longterm better.
had a big EF this morning when i woke up (does anyone else get them when they've just woken up? it's a real bummer, catches you before you're even half-conscious !!) and it took ages, and several cups of coffee (ok not the best, i know but i need coffee first thing) and a lot of self talking to make it to vertical. but i did it. and i had occasion to practise beating the Bitch who was telling what a waste or air-space i was. i still feel quite wired but i have managed to do laundry and get showered so that's an achievement (well it is for me).
it irks me that my life has dwindled to such small mundanities but i can't help that. work with what i've got, optimise, what else can i do?
Could we please just reiterate the Steps Pete Walker is speaking of - listing them and open a discussion how this is addressing the EF's?
Quote from: arpy1 on September 24, 2015, 02:18:32 PM
i realised that i have to protect myself from her condemnation and unfair treatment of me.
had a big EF this morning when i woke up (does anyone else get them when they've just woken up?
it irks me that my life has dwindled to such small mundanities but i can't help that. work with what i've got, optimise, what else can i do?
Arpy1,
I'm at the same place at the moment-fighting with this damn ICr. It's hard work, which never seems to end to be honest ;D. I'm trying virtually all day though. Have you been able to grieve at all yet? It supposedly short circuit the ICr, according to Pete. I haven't been able to cry for the last ten years and can't get it going. :pissed:
Waking up in an EF? Check! :bigwink: Every single day for I don't know how long, a couple of months. I've been meaning to start tapping in the morning. I do some during the day and it helps, but never done it in the morning. Have you tried it? May be worth a try. At the moment I read through Pete's steps and, like you, head for the coffee machine! :bigwink: Caffeine, just another one of my addictions!
Yes life dwindling to such small a level gets me too. You seem to have accepted it though and can subsequently work through it. I'm still stuck at the stage where I'm mad that I'm so limited.
Missbliss, I'll put up the Pete Walker EF steps tomorrow.
I am still working on figuring everything out, including EFs. But, I do tend to agree with the people who note that EFs are often trying to tell us something and it might serve us well to see them through.
That said, the EFs, at least for me, can come at the most inconvenient of times. In my case, I am, for example, wiser to try and block EFs while I am at work. Unfortunately, the 'corporate culture' at my work allows for behaviours that are often triggering for me (bullying from the top down :sadno: So, I do try and stop EFs while at work.
I am in the experimenting stage, but have found a few things that seem to work for me, with mixed results. Often, I find that strong flavours or smells can help me pull myself back to myself. In my case sucking on a strong mint often helps. Sometimes tactile stimuli also help, for example, rubbing my fingers on the rough fabric of a chair. Another tactic that I have been trying with some success is to tell myself a version of 'I am here', 'I'm safe here'., 'I can be here', etc. Often, it devolves into 'here, here, here, here'. That seems to help, but then I also have to be careful not to be saying it out loud or to mutter it to myself in a way that my coworkers can hear me. When I can, I also slip outside or into an out of the way washroom to breathe and repeat 'here, here...').
When I am at home or another safe place, on the other hand, I generally let the EF run its course, then practise some of my self-care 'after EF' activities to get resettled and recentred.
no_more_fear:
QuoteHave you been able to grieve at all yet?
we...ll, i'm not sure about the grieving thing. i can remember about two years ago when the 'final betrayal' happened, sitting in my lounge literally wailing aloud as i finally had to accept the truth that i had lost everything. but i guess i generally feel sad all the time so maybe that's grief? i don't know. it takes a lot for me to have a good cry but it happens at times.
i am finding myself more able to get really very angry at the leader of the cult, though. he personifies my inner critic and i hear him in my head a lot, shouting. that is beginning to really seriously p me off as i realise that a lot of the stuff that other folks' parents did to them, he did to me and the destruction of my life and my personhood is pretty largely down to him. i feel hatred towards him. and it's not comfortable to feel that towards anyone, but i kind of think it's probably progress for me so i should go with it. not that i'd do anything with it, even if he were alive now, but you know what i mean.
the thing you said, I like vanilla,
QuoteAnother tactic that I have been trying with some success is to tell myself a version of 'I am here', 'I'm safe here'., 'I can be here', etc.
i use that a lot, when i am feeling very scared i tell myself 'i am perfectly safe' and 'no one can get me, here' over and over. it does help eventually to stop the panic.
i'm just emerging after several days 'in my cave' after getting very triggered by a number of things so that eventually my brain switched itself off; i seem to need to do that once in a while, even tho i feel guilty about numbing out, as it becomes impossible to live in a state of emotional hyperarousal 24/7. don't know quite what to do about that yet.
Here are Pete's 13 steps to FB management:
1. Say to yourself: "I am having a flashback". Flashbacks take us into a timeless part of the psyche that . feels as helpless, hopeless and surrounded by danger as we were in childhood. The feelings and sensations you are experiencing are past memories that cannot hurt you now.
2. Remind yourself: "I feel afraid but I am not in danger! I am safe now, here in the present." Remember you are now in the safety of the present, far from the danger of the past.
3. Own your right/need to have boundaries. Remind yourself that you do not have to allow anyone to mistreat you; you are free to leave dangerous situations and protest unfair behavior.
4. Speak reassuringly to the Inner Child. The child needs to know that you love her unconditionally- that she can come to you for comfort and protection when she feels lost and scared.
5. Deconstruct eternity thinking: in childhood, fear and abandonment felt endless - a safer future was unimaginable. Remember the flashback will pass as it has many times before.
6. Remind yourself that you are in an adult body with allies, skills and resources to protect you that you never had as a child. [Feeling small and little is a sure sign of a flashback]
7. Ease back into your body. Fear launches us into 'heady' worrying, or numbing and spacing out.
[a] Gently ask your body to Relax: feel each of your major muscle groups and softly encourage them to relax. (Tightened musculature sends unnecessary danger signals to the brain)
Breathe deeply and slowly. (Holding the breath also signals danger).
[c] Slow down: rushing presses the psyche's panic button.
[d] Find a safe place to unwind and soothe yourself: wrap yourself in a blanket, hold a stuffed animal, lie down in a closet or a bath, take a nap.
[e] Feel the fear in your body without reacting to it. Fear is just an energy in your body that cannot hurt you if you do not run from it or react self-destructively to it.
8. Resist the Inner Critic's Drasticizing and Catastrophizing: [a] Use thought-stopping to halt its endless exaggeration of danger and constant planning to control the uncontrollable. Refuse to shame, hate or abandon yourself. Channel the anger of self-attack into saying NO to unfair self-criticism. Use thought-substitution to replace negative thinking with a memorized list of your qualities and accomplishments
9. Allow yourself to grieve. Flashbacks are opportunities to release old, unexpressed feelings of fear, hurt, and abandonment, and to validate - and then soothe - the child's past experience of helplessness and hopelessness. Healthy grieving can turn our tears into self-compassion and our anger into self-protection.
10. Cultivate safe relationships and seek support. Take time alone when you need it, but don't let shame isolate you. Feeling shame doesn't mean you are shameful. Educate your intimates about flashbacks and ask them to help you talk and feel your way through them.
11. Learn to identify the types of triggers that lead to flashbacks. Avoid unsafe people, places, activities and triggering mental processes. Practice preventive maintenance with these steps when triggering situations are unavoidable.
12. Figure out what you are flashing back to. Flashbacks are opportunities to discover, validate and heal our wounds from past abuse and abandonment. They also point to our still unmet developmental needs and can provide motivation to get them met.
13. Be patient with a slow recovery process: it takes time in the present to become un-adrenalized, and considerable time in the future to gradually decrease the intensity, duration and frequency of flashbacks. Real recovery is a gradually progressive process [often two steps forward, one step back], not an attained salvation fantasy. Don't beat yourself up for having a flashback.
Thank you for post this :thumbup: