Out of the Storm

So this past year has been very....informative. I've discovered personality disorders and cptsd. I have strengthened some relationships and have gone nc with others. It's been hard but I'm starting to see the rewards of not being pulled by PDs. My cptsd symptoms are much worse when the PDs start closing in. When the PDs are leaving me alone It's like a huge weight lifts up and things are much easier. I know I'm describing depression and may be depression fits in with cptsd. I think in my case the depression is a symptom of cptsd as I can see a difference in it with who is pulling me which way. I hope that makes sense. Either way I'm doing better and the difference is that I have out up boundaries for my PDs so they can't run my life for me. Very liberating.

It really is liberating isn't it CA?!  Boundaries and disengagement give us that emotional breathing space we need that dealing with someone with a PD fills to bursting. I know when I went LC and NC I felt a huge sense of relief, like I'd been holding my breath and was waiting to exhale.  My days are not run by fear or anxiety about what my PD FOO will get up to anymore, I can breath and feel and think more clearly now. When I was around them I was always depressed (and no wonder), and I think that's what you're describing, that when you're not around them it feels like a huge weight lifting. 

So glad to hear you're doing better  :thumbup:

Hi, Survivor,

what a great idea to keep a journal of some kind on your recovery! I like it a lot! It makes every step you've taken so much more real.

Kudos to you!

kf

Well thanks but I can't really take the credit. I've spent the past year posting over at ootf. I'm starting the journal more or less because I'm starting to realize the depth of harm that pd has caused in my life. Not just from my foo but my H's as well. I'm re-establishing myself as my daughters mom. Which sounds crazy but my mil was attempting to take over that role emotionally with my oldest d. It's only since Ive been nc with mil that I realized to what extent mil was influencing her. Basically mil would encroach upon me, my cptsd would kick in and I would withdraw then mil would swoop in and save the day by babysitting so that I could have some "well deserved kid free time."  Disgusting but true. So this is about my journey in recovering myself and my family. I am amazed at how just saying no I don't need your help and going nc with mil has helped SO MANY problems. There are things that I need to do and I'm working on it but I have a good head start and I understand the dynamics so much better.

Im feeling frustrated and when that happens I usually need to just type or write and let it flow so there's really no telling what this post will look like when Im finished.

This week has been tough. Im at the place where enough is enough and Im ready to walk away. The problem is that its not possible to walk away for many months so I have to buckle down and make it work. Im supposed to be vessel of strength, but I can't be that for everyone all the time. I am a very strong person. I know who I am and who I am not. I know what I stand for and I know what is disgusting to me. Im not superwoman. And Im coming to the realization that you only live once. and I get to pick if I want my life to be happy or not. And so Im unwilling to continue certain aspects of my life. It doesn't make me happy, its not healthy, its not productive and it hurts my family. Its time for a change.

Im still having issues with DD. She has developed fleas from interacting with her PD grandmother. She is getting better but it sends me into unknown levels of ticked off when I realize the undesirable behavior that she has picked up from other people. How did this happen? NMIL called and gave somewhat of an apology. She said that she was sorry and wanted the opportunity to make things right. She didn't say what she was sorry for which irritates me. She still hasn't acknowledged how unfair she has been to my youngest child.

I hate PD. I hate suffering from CPTSD as a result. It makes things so much more complicated. So much harder to trust, so much harder to build relationships, so much harder to believe others. Its just been a bad week.

Sorry to hear that you've had a bad week Survivor so am sending a big  :hug:  your way!

I'm just in the process of writing a piece for Out of the Fog about how to talk to children about PD people in their lives - if it might be helpful let me know and I'll send you the draft. 

SO bad week number one turned into half of a bad week number 2 which hopefully and finally ended today. Thank God for miracles. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. Someone asked me why I was strong enough before and not now. There are many reasons and I provided the main one but the ultimate reason is I'm not superwoman. I can't fight forever. I am strong and I can fight. But there's a limit. Cptsd makes it more complex. There was a discussion a out holding it together in public when it has to be held together and collapsing at home. That's been me on and off for a long time. I sit on the edge. When it's good I'm great but when it's bad I'm on the edge of keeping everything going. When cptsd was first suggested to me, I almost dismissed it. Bit the more that I come here and the more that this site grows, the more I see myself. So the big news this week is that something pretty major happened. I made a good decision for me. I stood up for myself and drew a pretty strong boundary. I spoke it a good way and the other person (not a pd) understood me. I'm not used to sticking up for myself unless backed into a corner and then I'm usually fighting, ticked off mad. I am in a corner and I am mad, angry and hurt, but I did a much better job of communicating and sticking up for myself without my temper going off the deep end. So ultimately it was a good day with a difficult beginning.
I like emoticons and was looking for a smiley face but I can describe my day in pics...

:sharkbait:  :fallingbricks:  :'( :applause: :chestbump: ;)

oh, you got me laughing with your "I can describe my day in pics"   Perfect.

what a day.....

The most  difficult part is that someone told me I was paranoid. I am. But with outstanding, honest, and true reason. I have every damned right to be paranoid. (There goes my temper; I'll pull it back in) I have thought and reviewed the situation, and while I am in a super sensitive state I also firmly believe that I'm not making it up and it's not just in my head. There is a person whose  attitude and projection are different when I am alone with her and when we are in company (more than me and her) my fight or flight kicks in when we are alone. I can interact and be comfortable with an additional witness but the two of us together alone is NOT good.  At this point my position is to be quiet, because if I'm right the situation will re-present itself. If I'm wrong, the situation will dissolve.

Quote from: SurvivorI have every damned right to be paranoid.

Precisely.

Posted by: Survivor
September 28, 2014, 09:49:38 AM

It's been hard but I'm starting to see the rewards of not being pulled by PDs. My cptsd symptoms are much worse when the PDs start closing in. When the PDs are leaving me alone It's like a huge weight lifts up and things are much easier. I know I'm describing depression and may be depression fits in with cptsd. I think in my case the depression is a symptom of cptsd as I can see a difference in it with who is pulling me which way. I hope that makes sense. Either way I'm doing better and the difference is that I have out up boundaries for my PDs so they can't run my life for me. Very liberating.

You are so right... uNPDsis has lived in My town for 3 years... It has been a big mass of drama! She went NC from me because she does not want to move out of my house and figured NC would keep me from discussing these problems. I feel so relieved that I don't have to listen to her DRAMA and Gossip, and lies, and trying to borrow money! I thought I'd miss her.. but I don't at all.  :pissed:

I  am in some kind of LC or MC with My husband now... I mean I don't go over to his house very much and I like that too.  He is a lot nicer when I don't see him so much! :yes: When I worked I did not see him much either so, another reason My meds had to go up!

I know My depression is caused by people too. I would not have even said that a year ago, but I am a believer now. I mean I have been on the same medications for years and they have worked , however now I need a higher dose to get the same effects!  So, I know it is not the imbalance in Me that is to blame. It is the other people!

I need to add a disclaimer before I respond--meds should be between a patient and prescribing physician. Please don't change any medicine based on my thoughts. Talk to your doctor.


I don't like most medications. My belief is that a most medications treat symptoms and not causes. For example I can somewhat manage my depression. I notice that I'm not doing so well and I can usually identify the cause and make adjustments. However if I could NOT identify the cause, then I would be much more likely to become chronically depressed. If I'm depressed long enough then that's when the hormonal imbalances and brain changes begin to occur which are identified as depression. However I think we can change our situations that are causing the depression rather than introduce powerful medications to our body.

I guess all of that to I think depression is caused mostly by our surroundings in the beginning. If it becomes chronic than we do need meds to help correct the brain chemicals but we can also change our physical surroundings which caused the depression in the first place. Just my 2 cents...

Wow. What A difference a day makes. I have peace and tranquility. Just letting go and moving on with the strong boundary that I made. A friend reached out and gave me her support. Validation is incredible. I am a little concerned about a push/pull situation but the inner peace of today is amazing.

There is a thread somewhere here talking about energy flow, chakras, etc. For me some of that stuff gets a little too far out there but I do believe in energy and other people's negativity flows to me. Good boundaries. Good energy. A happy, productive me.

 :cheer:  :cheer:  :cheer:  :cheer:

Yeah, Survivor!!!!

Congratulations! Yet another thing that validates your decision to set boundaries, no? 

:fireworks:

Whew. What a day. I want the ups and downs to stop. I would be ecstatic to be plain boring. No ups, no downs, just consistent. The good news is I'm making progress. The bad news is is that when I discovered pd, I was surrounded by them. A grand total of 7. One was a temporary relationship which was easily solvable. The rest are related to me. One has moved off--so that was easily addressed. Then there's the grandmothers--mine and H's. neither one of them is really an active part of my life. It was just realizing that those behaviors were there. Next is my mom who is a recovering cptsd/uBpd/something was wrong but she's doing much better now. That brings me down to the final 2: MIL and a work colleague. The work colleague is dangerous and she's the one that I recently drew a boundary with. So I was fealing all great and hunkey dory...but then I got ambushed by IL today. I handled it well. But nearly fell apart once it was finished. It took most of today to put myself back together.

I've been spending today wondering if its me. Doubting myself. With so many complicated relationships, Am I the problem? With both situations I have taken to writing things down. Documenting. I reviewed my writing. It's not me. It. is. not. me. I feel more secure in myself right now than I have in a long time.

I feel like I get one situation worked out and the other knocks me off my feet. Both of them are working themselves out. I have a plan for work and my I don't interact with ILs all that much. I am very LC/ no response with them.

So I needed the self inspection today. I've looked at everything and I've considered a lot of things today. I am stronger because of the reflection.

That's great Survivor - you are moving on out of the storm! :applause:

Glad to hear that you've taken this hurdle. Congratulations!  :waveline:

Quote from: Survivor on October 20, 2014, 02:03:44 AMI've been spending today wondering if its me. Doubting myself. With so many complicated relationships, Am I the problem? With both situations I have taken to writing things down. Documenting. I reviewed my writing. It's not me. It. is. not. me. I feel more secure in myself right now than I have in a long time.

I'm doing that too, but about my childhood, not my present life. It's just such a knee-jerk reaction to think that it's maybe just me. I'm "the oversensitive one in my family", which I'm putting in quotation marks because I'm now thinking it's just a fancy way of saying: "schrödinger's cat, we've scapegoated you and want to keep on doing this while feeling good about ourselves, so please accept ALL the blame". Reading about CPTSD things has validated a lot of things I felt/knew at the time, but which my FOO then talked me out of fully believing. It's such a good feeling, realizing that yes, I can depend on my own perceptiveness and opinions after all. Hah.  :pissed:

"Hah" indeed, take that you FOO!   :pissed:    Honestly, best feeling ever when you finally realize it's NOT you.

Absolutely, Kizzie. What makes things worse is this: NO ONE ever gets it. The few times I unburdened myself to someone, they almost all of them wondered why my pain was still so fresh after all those years. "Oh, you must move on"... "you must forgive your family, we all make mistakes, why are you so very upset"... All they knew were HEALTHY relationships. And in HEALTHY relationships, problems are caused by both parties 50/50. Everybody knows that. In healthy relationships, you have a choice and you have leeway, so you can change things by simply deciding to change them. BING! It's that easy. And so, in healthy relationships, you can't really go "oooh, the others were so mean to poor innocent me".

But the truth of it is, people in our situation GET to stand there and say "there was this problem and IT WAS NOT CAUSED BY ME". Because our relationships weren't mother+me, they were mother+me+uNPD or mother+me+tragedy or whatever, with the third party taking up almost all the space. It's like if your mother and you had to share a flat with a tiger: if there's carnage, it's safe to say that you were not responsible for 50% of it. Or maybe an elephant analogy works too. If you shared a flat with an elephant and end up feeling rather flattened, this was NOT because you chose to constantly place yourself under heavy, blunt objects.

 :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat:
Keep on Keeping on!

It's been a good week. My major boundary is holding well for now. I e only had one brief interaction with work pd (passed each other in walking) communication is as always polite but obviously fake and forced. I'm at the point where I don't care. We are work colleagues in a professional situation but I have lost all and any respect for this person.

ILs have been quiet. They deny any past problems. Apparently I went NR for one indescretion on their part. It's more like 3 years of them repeatedly refusing to acknowledge my youngest child.

I'm hopeful that I'm seeing the light at the end of this tunnel...freedom is hard fought.

I have read most everything about boundaries. This link has the easiest form for me to work through. I think the check list could be useful for everyone to ask them selves before they commit to anything.
here is the link http://changingminds.org/techniques/stress/manage_boundaries.htm (http://changingminds.org/techniques/stress/manage_boundaries.htm)
The page is short so here is what it says!

Manage Your Boundaries

Description
Set your own boundaries for what you will and will not do. Then stick to them. When other people ask you to do things that are outside these boundaries, politely refuse.

Boundaries can include:

• The time you will spend on doing things for others (which takes into account the time you need for your own activities).
• The desirability and difficulty of the work requested.
• The type and amount of risk that you are prepared to accept.
• The amount of money you will spend, including money you must spend up-front before getting paid back for this later.
• What other resources you will be prepared to use or lend (for example would you lend your expensive camera to a friend for a weekend?).
• Taking all things into account, the maximum stress you can sustain.
• The ethics and values that you use to decide what is right and wrong.

If your boundaries will be crossed, then say no. You can do this nicely, but be firm and do not allow them to persuade you. They may use phrases like 'Only for me' or 'Just this once'. Stay firm and say 'Sorry, but no'.

Discussion
A lot of stress is based around relationships with others. This includes partners, children, parents, people living nearby, work colleagues, managers, local politicians and so on.

It is not uncommon for people to ask us to do things for them, with an assumption that we will be able to do it quickly and easily, while the reality is that it is difficult and takes much longer than was assumed. It is also easy for people to assume we have plenty of spare time to do things for them, when our days are already overflowing.

Stress is accumulative, adding up with each stressful thing we do or experience. Even a small thing can 'break the camel's back'. This is one reason why always managing your boundaries is important. If you break them once, people will assume you will break them again.

When we do thing for others and we have the time and resource, we typically feel good about helping them. When we are stressed, however, we easily end up resenting them (often unconsciously), and the relationship may be damaged as a result. This is an important response to worries that we must sustain the relationship by doing whatever others ask us to do.

Keep on keeping on!

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on October 21, 2014, 07:18:27 AM
Absolutely, Kizzie. What makes things worse is this: NO ONE ever gets it. The few times I unburdened myself to someone, they almost all of them wondered why my pain was still so fresh after all those years. "Oh, you must move on"... "you must forgive your family, we all make mistakes, why are you so very upset"... All they knew were HEALTHY relationships. And in HEALTHY relationships, problems are caused by both parties 50/50. Everybody knows that. In healthy relationships, you have a choice and you have leeway, so you can change things by simply deciding to change them. BING! It's that easy. And so, in healthy relationships, you can't really go "oooh, the others were so mean to poor innocent me".

But the truth of it is, people in our situation GET to stand there and say "there was this problem and IT WAS NOT CAUSED BY ME". Because our relationships weren't mother+me, they were mother+me+uNPD or mother+me+tragedy or whatever, with the third party taking up almost all the space. It's like if your mother and you had to share a flat with a tiger: if there's carnage, it's safe to say that you were not responsible for 50% of it. Or maybe an elephant analogy works too. If you shared a flat with an elephant and end up feeling rather flattened, this was NOT because you chose to constantly place yourself under heavy, blunt objects.

Cat you've put your finger on a key point once again   :thumbup:  Perhaps we should include something to this effect in our "What Do We Want To Tell ......." threads in the "Community Matters" forum to be included in our Guest Info Centre at some point.  That is, what we are dealing with is unresolved (and in some cases ongoing) trauma inflicted in abusive relationships.  If we could have gotten over it, we would have.  If we could have let it go, we would have.  If we could have forgotten it, we would have.  If we could have moved on, we would have. But.........we.......can't.     It's not as simple as that -- it's complex PTSD afterall. We have an untreated injury that just doesn't go away on its own.   

Great discussion! I love it.

I'm feeling a little down. Not too bad, but deflated. I've let go of some friendships. Called a spade, a spade. I don't want fake friends. Not interested.  I'm not a convenient friend. That's not to say that I don't recognize different levels of friendship but I'm not going to wait until pd gives you permission to be friend. So I guess the feeling is a little meloncholy. Letting go of someone's illusion because I know it's just an illusion. The good news is that someone else reached out today...well really two someone's. so here's to letting go of fake to make room for real. :chestbump:

Real instead of fake sounds good. Glad to hear that this happened so soon after you let go of your fake friends.  :waveline:

Schrodinger, this has been a process taking place for a while. I think the mental process was first and the physical seems to be rapid but in reality it's just catching up. I knew the friends were fake a long time ago and I have watched them make their own decisions. 2 in particular both of whom I have had extremely long but not extremely close relationships with, you can watch them put a finger in the air to test which way the wind blows. They see it and know it and even know about pd. but being a gc is too comfy. They won't ever stand up for me as a sg friend who hasnt done anything wrong but I would have for them. I won't now. They're on their own. Hope they stay a gc. It's a golden prison.

 :blink: I can see now why you think they were only ever fake friends. Someone who won't stand up for you isn't a friend at all, it's an acquaintance.

I was amazed recently to realize just how out of whack my idea of a friendship is. Someone treats me in a cool, aloof way? Or they're friendly when I'm feeling good and have something to give, but when I'm in trouble, they keep their distance? Why, it's like we're family already! We're going to get along so well! I know precisely how to be the complement part in such a relationship!

There's a list someplace on Pete Walker's website (I think it's his) called something like "my rights in a relationship". I glanced at it and thought: "Pah, I know all that." I read it anyway and went: "...oh. Oh. Oh, right. Of course, that makes sense." Then I went and read up on codependent and dependent behaviour. Now I'm not even sure what to feel about some of my past friendships. Sad? Betrayed? Guilty for being so ready to accept dysfunctional behaviour? Guilty for being dysfunctional myself? Disappointed that people were so ready to exploit this? I want a refund. I want to hand my childhood and youth back in and get another version. I want my family to have kind of electronic interface where I could type in a cheat code: toggle social_skills ON.

Thanks. I'll definitely look at Pete walker. It's interesting. I've worked so hard over the past year on getting out of drama and setting boundaries that I think I am finally having some success. But there's kind of a void. I have actively been working on three different pd relationships. And it's been exhausting. One is remarkably improved, and the other 2 I am nc/NR or vlc. I wouldn't change it as I needed to go through the process in order to reach my conclusions and to be comfortable with my decisions. But now is my time for me and my family. I want to be happy and I want my family to be happy. We've worked so hard to get to this place. It's time to fill the void with positivity and happiness for my family of choice.

Yes, precisely. It's not enough to survive - well, it is for quite a while, but the ultimate goal is always to survive in style, to really live. You probably know Maya Angelou's poem, Still I Rise (http://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/still-i-rise)? For me, that sums it up perfectly - she sounds so serene, almost smug, and totally sure of herself, totally sure of the point she's reached in her recovery.

THREE pd relationships? Oh my goodness. I had one pd acquaintance and she completely flattened me - it felt like being cozied up to by a meat grinder.

Yes 3. My mom which I'm not sure about a diagnosis with her. At first I thought n, then b, may be cptsd with lots of fleas..she isn't "healed" as there are times when I can tell that she's struggling but the extreme accusations as well as triangulation, etc. have stopped. I can tell its hard for her at times but she catches and corrects herself. Then there's mil--who I am NR with unless H is also contacted. my communication with her is strictly with h as a witness--triangulation proof. And then a coworker. So yes, it's been a hard past year.

The good news is that it's all paying off. It will take a bit for me to recover but the tip of success is so good. Never going back. Only forward.

It's been a bit since I posted. I've had ok days. Not bad and generally improving but today I had fun. I had almost forgotten what fun felt like. Exciting. Energetic. Invigorating. Fun. It was SO good.

Welcome back, Survivor.

Fun.   That's a good, very good thing.   Healing for the brain.    :woohoo:

Your mom ...have you by chance read the Karyl McBride, When Will I Ever Be Good Enough? book.   It may very well have your mom in there.    Even a few of the narcissist traits, not full-blown NPD impacts a child's life so negatively.

Take care, and keep having Fun!

Days are getting better except there's a person who is sending multiple hoovers. I am NOT at all tempted to get sucked back in. I miss that old situation about like I'd miss a bullet in my foot. I keep hoping that if I ignore it, it will stop. No such luck. I'm SO much happier without that drama. Never again.

I had a wonderful Thanksgiving. H and I agree-its the best we've had in years. We spent Thanksgiving day at home with FOC and then traveled to my grandparents Friday and his parents Saturday. We had good boundaries for both sets of FOO. I saw things in both situations that reinforce our decisions and make me feel good about our boundaries. In H's words "no family *" I agree. It's been a good week. :)

Glad to hear it.  :waveline:  I hope your situation with the hoovering person has improved.

:wave: Sandal
Glad to hear that You had a good Thanksgiving weekend!

I did too! Doesn't it feel good? I had a meltdown before everyone came. It worked out Ok though... My Mother peeled the potatoes, My SonIL washed the dishes for me so I could finish up the meal... My Son and His GF played with the kids...I found there was LESS Drama with everybody having something to do! Then We had conversation with everybody working!  :yes:

I think it was My inner critic talking. Mom was coming and I am in D's home.. and BOTH of them have components of Ocd? ( i put that ? there because I can never Remember the last letter, not the handwashing type though.) I am suspecting that Pharaoh,My inner critic, had a hand in My nervousness!

I am still learning the EF's, Triggers, and dissociating, and trying to separate them!  I was being scatter brained!

Keep on Keeping on! ')  :hug:

@schrodinger... The hoovering situation has improved. It is what it is.