Out of the Storm

I integrated a lot of dad-related trauma stuff. And decided to speak up with CPS and the systems therapist. I want to write a mail. As well as start conversations. If they allow it. I need to write a mail today. Or maybe tomorrow.

I find it terribly hard to speak. I cannot explain well. I do not know how to find the right words. Or how to put a complex situation in 10 sentences. I'm afraid not to be believed, or to make it worse. It also arouses emotions. And I'm afraid to be unfair to dad. I write a bit. Do not find it good enough. Get  stressed. Walk away. But I need to write.

I could use as many calming techniques to use to keep myself in my window of tolerance (thanks, NarcKiddo) whilst writing or speaking. So that I can be logical and coherent. And finish the story. I need to write a bit. Calm down. Write a bit. Calm down.

Any ideas? 

What I already did was talk to a hotline, walk a bit, eat something, listen to soothing or strenghtening music. But it's not enough.

I need it to be good. I also don't want to harm dad. He is terrible damaged and damaging. But not a sociopath. Just a sensitive boy hidden in an emotional bunker because of autism and trauma. Ideally my mail helps kid and me as kid's mum, whilst not driving dad further in his bunker. Ideally even gently convincing him there's life outside his bunker.

That's tough to do. I am with you on finding it hard to speak. Especially if I have not planned precisely what points I need to get across, or somebody asks me some question I have not thought of in advance. So in your position I would also be writing everything down. My approach would likely be to write a massive essay saying everything and including whatever grievances and emotions I have. I'd let the angry or sad inner children have full voice. This is hard, though, and I think I would have to forget the window of tolerance and just let the inner children loose for a day or so. Then I'd try to regroup, put adult me in charge, and go through editing down to the main points.

I don't know if you have time to do this, though. Or if you have the emotional bandwidth to go through that process. Or if that process would even be helpful for you. I would do it for me because that way my inner children would get their voice and then adult me would filter it all so by the time it gets told to someone else it sounds rational and compelling. Your situation is complicated by not wanting to cause issues for your dad, so adult you has to be fully in control of whatever eventually gets sent out or said.

I am conscious my reply has not given any further ideas for calming techniques. I don't really have any, over and above what you are already doing, apart from doing exercise, which is my go to, or doing art. I do, however, often find that letting my inner children vent for a while usually ends up in my feeling generally calmer even if it is unpleasant at the time. I don't know if maybe letting yours vent but setting a timer would help you? And when they vent, maybe let them do it with no concern for your dad. Then adult you can later sift through and pick up what is important to convey to a third party. I am assuming you may have some sort of contact with your inner child(ren) but if not then please disregard anything here that is not helpful to you.

Getting outside is my go to. As is watching something that makes me laugh or smile or is pure and good hearted. I once practiced writing a story that was very very difficult to put in words about some of what happened to me. I wrote it first in third person then eventually was able to write in first person.  At first I dissociated a lot. But writing it over and over helped me both get some distance from it and also make it first person so I could acknowledge it was something that happened to me not her. So I guess just write what you have to write however and as many times as you need to. You don't need to send the first several drafts. It can be how you work your way up to what you want to write. I remember now too I read aloud what I wrote into a recorder and listened to it to. It was both difficult and desensitizing but allowed me to adopt it as my story instead of pushing it away. I don't know if it's a good idea. I recall I was very triggered while doing this. But you sure aren't alone.  :grouphug:

Thank you for all your advice. I try these things!

The writing makes me feel all the bad stuff. And understand how I failed kid. Failed to protect him. And also how stuck I am. I responded in all the wrong ways to dad, because nobody heard me...on surface level I seem like the *, because he aroused such strong feelings in me...and hid all the behaviour he did to elicit these feelings. I am terrified. He is extremely manipulative. But in a calculated way. Not impulsive. I am good at being open with feelings. Dad is good at strategy games. I am more genuine, but unstrategical.

I feel overwhelmed. Scared.

I also feel guilty...maybe if I had been better, dad had come out of his shell.

My mind is a mess now. :stars:

I still cannot figure out if I am the problem or they are or both. I feel I became just as bad, or worse, because I worried over kid and got angry and terrified. And got no help. They wrecked my mind. And I wonder if they became like that because I was so horrible (as they say).  Or I became like this because they were so horrible.

I also just don't know how to explain without sounding utterly crazy. I had psychosis. Because of what they did. I do not now. But if I will tell that dad secretly does a smear campaign with the family, who all cover for him, and spread nasty stories (i have their stories on record, but cannot proof they are lies)...or if I say they stole my diaries and passport when I was away...or if I say dad seems nice but secretly says nasty stuff when nobody listens... or my mum tried to manoeuvre me back to abusive men all the time, with weird excuses...I mean... who on earth are they going to believe? I will sound insane. I sound insane to myself. Even I can't believe they are that mean. Dad said it: "you will not even notice I play games, because I am so smart at it". 

Someone told me to run from the family and save myself. And leave my kid behind. Which I will never. Even if my mind becomes mush and I die of stress. I see kid mask and slide in stuff the family teaches him. I cannot offer him much. But running away? Nope.

The only proof I have that will at least show it did not start with me....is that dad admitted he came from a family with narcissism.

The child therapist told me she had a strong discussion with my brother, because he spread stories that were not true. I told dad. Who said he would make clear she'd lose her licence for speaking with me. Right after that she disappeared from my social media. Her complete profile was gone. I still have her words written. But I mean...I know he always talks angrily with people who support me...but...would he really?

Mathilda I want to reassure you that the things you say make 100% sense to anyone who understands what it is like to be stuck in a relationship with a narcissist, especially a parent.

And your behaviors and reactions make sense to anyone who understands trauma, as well as what child sexual assault does to the mind.

Would you be any of the negative things you think about yourself if you weren't stuck trying to make a relationship with your dad work for the sake of your child? If your dad were all the sudden just gone....what of your behaviors stay and what disappears with him?

Guilt, shame, and low self-esteem are all common symptoms after CSA (and being raised by a narcissist).

They're treatable. But the trauma has to be in the past first.

My point being...there's not anything wrong with you other than that you continue to be traumatized. I'm sorry because there's not a solution right now unless CPS gets their act together and does what's right. But at least take some peace knowing deep down it isn't you. It was never you.  :grouphug:

Thank you.

The sad thing is...I can see the sweet and sensitive little boy dad was. That breaks my heart. I saw it in my ex. I see it in my dad. I saw it in my mum. I see in them the little children they were, and can become, if only they step out of the web of defences.

I guess my priority at this point though...is to free my own little inner child from her defences...and make sure kid doesnt hide himself more.

I just find no logic.

The one moment he says he will isolate me with a smear campaign. Almost literally. The next moment he is truly devastated his kids fight. Both these feelings seem real.

The one moment I beg him to stop the behaviour he uses to drive me to suicide...and he coldly says no. The other moment he says he is so worried and prays I don't do it...the next moment he uses my suicidality to smear me. :stars:

I feel he is just very fragmented himself.

There is no logic to find. That's why these situations are such a terrible, knotty problem.

As an outsider looking in, my perspective is that you are trying to solve all of the problems at once. As soon as you address one aspect, all of the other aspects pile in on top of you. And then you can't do anything because literally nobody can solve every single problem they might have at the same time. Even if the problems are very interlinked, as yours are, there is simply no one approach that will solve it all. If there was, you would certainly have found it by now. You have been working so hard at this for so long.

I think you may benefit from trying first of all to identify the main issues.

First, there are three main people here, as I understand it. Your son, you, your father. So those three people could be where you concentrate your initial thoughts. Before you go any further, maybe give some thought to who you can actually influence here. You can influence you. If you feel strong and in control then you are your best self. When you are your best self you have more capacity to help others. It is not selfish to concentrate on yourself, and what will make you feel calm and strong. You can likely influence your son to some degree. He is his own person with his own thoughts and feelings but he is still a child and you are his mother. Children look to adults for guidance and I guess you want to make sure that you are the main person he looks to for guidance because you are the person who has his best interests at heart.

Next step would be to consider which other people need your help most AND which other people will be receptive to receiving your help. Seems to me that while your father and your son might both need your help, your son is the person who probably needs it more and who will benefit most from getting it. It is very human and kind of you to see the good in your father but maybe he should come third on your list? That is your decision to make, of course. And don't forget that you also need your help.

Once you have worked out your priority list it may become easier for you to construct your communications with CPS to best achieve a good result for the people in the priority order you have worked out.

As you have identified earlier on, communications with them need to be reasonably brief and to the point. Even if you have the nicest and most considerate caseworker in the world they are not going to have time to consider the entire life history leading up to this point and if you try to make too many points they will simply switch off and do what they think is suitable.

I think that if you can come up with a workable plan based on who needs the most benefit right now, you will feel calmer.

 :grouphug: 

I just feel stupid. He literally said, years ago, that he would play games. I gave him a * of ammunition. Because I freaked out.

You are right. I need to care for me and kid first. And speak up. And set priorities.

I just do not know how to explain. Dad is extremely extremely extremely covert in his abuse. He can threaten me with one tiny smirk. He can isolate me from the family with a stream of stories that are very subtly (but crucially) twisted. He can just nudge kid to not bond with me more in tiny ways. He can make clear he will revenge if I speak up, with the subtlest little dog-whistle, that sounds innocent to outsiders. He will steal my passport. I discover it because the door of the cupboard is open, and it wasn't before. He will lie it was on the table, and he was afraid it was seen and stolen.

And do it while smiling and offering the kindest of help. I manage to mostly ignore this now. But I do not know what steps to take to defend my child.

Just rest assured knowing nearly all of us here grew up with the same and fully understand what you mean. It may not ever be something you can explain well to cps. But it makes full and total sense here. And you don't owe others a detailed explanation. "There are sides of him he hides well and he is not healthy for me to be around due to some aspects of that behavior he hides. My religion and values don't not allow me to say more. It would just mean so much to me if you would trust what I am saying to be true for me without trying to convince me my experience is incorrect."

Thank you. Thanks. That means a lot.

It just...I keep wondering if it's me. They pushed every button they could find. In the subtlest of ways. But I was still the one who responded. And my character was wrecked. They brought out the very worst in me. But I keep wondering if they would have been kind. If I had responded better. Or if I saw it wrong. Because there was this perfectly sweet side.

Right now dad is planning a trip to Africa. With my kid. I accidently found out. He says he will not discuss it. And will push it through with CPS. If I give them notice, they tell me how "kid is in between". He isn't. There is one person doing constant nasty power struggles. And one person being clueless how to protect her child. That is not "in between."

Your words are perfect by the way.

I will use them.

What is a normal family like? What do they do, when they are angry?

I eventually understood that csa is not normal. And forcing your minor daughter to sleep in bed with her boyfriend against her will. And defending her abuser. And beating her to the ground and laughing that she must have slipped. And keeping her child awake when he says he is scared. And lying to the family and cps so that there won't be help.

But how about stonewalling and silent treatment? Or nasty sneers? Or eye rolls and pouting rather than just saying you are angry? Is this what people do? Are normal people like that? Or do they just say: ey, I am angry, can we talk. How do they fight in a normal family? :Idunno: 

I know with my healthy ex, when he or I doesn't like something, we just say it. And are a little angry for a bit. Maybe say one or two things that are a little more harsh than normal. Look angry. But there's no games. And it's over in a short time. That is normal. Right?

Yes what you described with your ex's family is normal. What you describe with yours is not normal at all. It is violent abusive illegal criminal

Thank you.

I finally start to get stronger. My responses were wrong too in a billion ways. This gave them ammunition and ramped up their defences. I may have been able to soften them earlier. Had I been calm. I was no better. Also I should have fought a whole lot harder (or different hard) to keep my kid away from them. And better the situation on my side. But I at least tried to seek help and break the cycle.

My parents and brothers are still stuck in the "we are perfect" phase. Except for nonsensical stuff like "i maybe did two small things wrong too, ever, and I said sorry, why don't you stop and let me have a fun old day with your kid". Which doesn't feel suiting for driving your child to insanity and near death. Which also hurt her child. And playing the whole family apart.

I feel weird. I accepted reality. Finally. They abused me and I abused them back. And we all wrecked kids life with that. That I cannot change the past or them. And after 5 billion versions of no over 4 decades, they probably mean that they are not willing to change. And will continu the manipulative power struggle. And if I keep asking, 

Which means I have to stop dissociating that away. Or trying for force them to change. But have to decide how I answer this. 

1. Focus on my own life. Build a good life on my side.

2. Be there for kid as good I can. They can do materialism and hiding behind screens and alienation and prestige and buying his love with fancy travels booked behind my back. We will do love and honesty and simplicity and empathy and care for the vulnerable and  selfreflection here. The more kid sees the good side of that. The more the chance he goes along. More then when I'm crying and fighting and fearing.

3. Speak up with cps. Even if I cannot prove it. And dad will have a whole bunch of stuff against me. But I am done with hiding the truth. I will not lie anymore. I am done with all the unacceptable stuff we all did. I quit joining in.

4. Stop going along in their mind and power games. I'm done. We all did wrong. I will stick with my original character. They can do their manipulation  business. I will no longer respond. I'm done. Just done. * off. I forgive. I empathise with their reasons. Their pain. I see my share. They are welcome in my life again the day they quit. But not whilst doing gaslighting and all. It is contaminating and I don't want it.

I do think balancing truth with mildness is important.

Dad has autism (plus other stuff). Dad had a * childhood. Nobody taught him social or emotional skills. He says his mum was a manipulator and his dad was never there, never talked. My mum wasn't the easiest. My trauma absolutely freaked me out. But him too. He is terrified of emotions. And mine exploded out at a certain point. He did his best. He is not a sociopath. He is not evil. He is absolutely terrified and clueless. And shut off his empathy in a way. I wasn't the complete cause of that. As he says. But part of it. He behaves like a nasty person. But I'll be mild. I too was a nasty person when terrified. Nearly everyone is their worst self when overwhelmed. My worst self is I'm overwhelmed with feelings. His worst self apparently is that he becomes a manipulative controlfreak.

I have a few friends who are honest and also ask critical questions. Ex said: Matilda. You too could not selfreflect. When we met. Remember?  You can now. But you could not.

I guess I can speak up for what happened and what I want. Not let dad manipulate or threaten or blackmail me into silence. There will be a backlash of all the bad stuff I ever did. Being put in front of a court. And I will look absolutely *. Which is was. I will no longer lie though. But I will be kindly truthful.

I was thinking.

Now I acknowledged my pain. I realise. In my childhood there was also a lot of love. My parents also did crazy weird stuff. But they did their best. They were emotionally disabled. I really see they tried. Hard. It was both them trying AND me not being seen.

I repeated my childhood with nasty boyfriends. This was my responsibility. But also rather...weird from my parents side. What parent knows their minor kid has a boyfriend who is a liar and gives them harddrugs to try... and says later, shrugging: "that was not my business"? (Whose was it then to raise me, dad? And correct me for a mistake? Protect me? If not you? I was a child. Living at home.)

There was a period my trauma exploded out of me. I was really not okay back then. I had begged for help everywhere. And nobody listened. I was impossible to deal with then. And the main problem. Blind panic. My family did bizarre stuff too. Like steal diaries or say crazy stuff or subtly undermine the bond with my kid. But I truly was the bigger problem then.

Mum died and they all blamed me. Me too. And cast me out. And played nasty games. When I started a process of self reflection, they did not. They were nasty and manipulative. And kept me ill. I despaired and could not recover. In this period they were the main culprit. I think.

I know I had a role. But I refuse to be blamed for the problems of the complete family any longer. My trauma coming out was also because they ignored every signal for decades.

Now I acknowledged my own pain. And what was wrong in my family. I also see my dads positive sides. And how hard he tried. And how hard my mum tried. And how difficult my trauma was for them. As theirs was for me. 

They have emotional disabilities. And the circumstances were terribly hard.

I think I should be more forgiving. I can acknowledge that his behaviour was threatening to me, and mine to him. Yet know he did what he could. I don't think he is narcissistic. I think he is autistic. And traumatised. My trauma came out in a way that frightened and hurt him badly. And he never learnt a way to express that well. He learnt horrid communication skills. So it comes out in underhanded ways. That I rightly feared.

I decided to acknowledge my own pain myself. AND do not let him intimidate me into silence and obedience AND take responsibility for my own side. AND see his hurt and good sides.

At work we learn to look beneath problematic behaviour. In dads case this is not evil. But fear and pain.

Tomorrow morning I will e-mail them.

I decided to write a short mail. Where I write a compliment: I felt seen and safe. And that this gave me the courage to say that I was not capable of speaking up. Tell my reasons (being intimidated, faith and love for dad, not having the words). And ask for a second conversation. I think I can better explain in real life. As I can see their response, and know they believe and understand...or it is shoved under "misses is delusional".

I realised I can speak up AND be loving to dad. If he cannot handle that. He should not have done all these things.

My incestuous uncle had the balls to admit his faults. I sought help everywhere for mine. Dad hides his. Even if there's no way to win this. I refuse to still lie. About my faults and his. I may not get back my kid. But I'm done being silenced. I will live a life that fits my values. So that kid at least has his real mother. Rather than a terrified mess who is driven away from her real character.
 

I also will write a practical mail. With the practical problems I meet.

Like dad planning a holiday to Africa with no discussion. Or dad driving kid up and down everywhere - which is really abnormal here, all kids bicycle to school when they are 6 oe 8. Kid is 14 and pampered. Which SEEMS sweet. But it IS not. It keeps him dependent. Which is exactly the purpose. And also, I asked dad not to, and he said with a smirk that he would not listen to me... and now he does exactly the opposite. Idiot.

I still didn't talk. I do not know how on earth to explain my family.

"He threatened me with smirks, that referred to earlier times, when he made this tiny remark, that was actually a severe threat to kid"
"They went to my house and secretly searched all the cabinets to steal my diaries, then lied that it was helping"
"My mum said they drove my uncle to suicide and killed my granny"
"My dad on purposed smeared me with the whole family, and now they are all against me"
"Kid says he likes granddad, but before he said that he was scared of him, and was intimidated into silence"
"Dad spoils kid, and uses that to alienate him from me"
"Every single word you hear from dad is calculated, nothing is real"
"They look like this incredibly warm and loving family, and everyone says they are, but they are secretly not, and I am the only one who sees this (next to a few people that ran away from them)"
"Things disappeared from my house, and I fear dad stole them, because they did before"
"The childrens therapist who knew them for years, spoke up against my brother, and e-mailed me that as proof, but a few days after I told dad, he said he'd tell her she'd lose her license, and she disappeared from all my social media"

How?!? Really? How? How can I explain this? Ever? I had psychosis. If I am honest about what happened. They will lock me up and drug me. Yet none of this is a lie. I never hallucinated. Also according to docs. I never failed at facts. I was just frozen from terror (catatonia).

Even I do not believe me. How are others going to believe me?

Unless you've personally experienced the clutches of a narcissist its impossible to rrally understand. (And yes even though parts of you later deny his illness and protect him. He is a narcissist if not worse. Even if he is also traumatized and neurodivergent. All those can be true at once.)

So most people won't get it. You can't explain it. What you can do is keep it simple:

1. Kid has told me he is afraid of dad, even though he later denies this.

2. I understand why he denies it, because my father physically and sexually abused me and then threatened me to be silent. If you want to include a couple clear facts here about your past abuse, do so.

3. I want to be in my sons life as much as I am allowed but it is also not healthy for me to be around the person who has been and continues to be abusive to me. He, like many abusers, knows how to hide this. Please watch for the subtle signs with my son so you can step in and protect my son since that right has been taken by me by the same person who harmed me.

Thanks. I'm not sure it is narcissism. I think my psychosis also extremely frightened him. And he really thinks he is protecting my child. I did horrible things too, like scream at my mum that I wish she was dead (after she defended my incestuous uncle and invited him at our family weekend without telling me and lying about that and telling everyone I was sexually abused - without asking me first). Or flee away with my child when I was in terror, and thus could not have enough attention to him, because I was to horrified (after mum said she killed granny).

I just. I see he has a good side that GENUINELY wants me to get better. I heard him sob when I was suicidal. He said he'd pray God healed me. He denied his sobbing later. But I heard it. He also tried to talk it out of my mind. I also see a bad side that GENUINELY wants to take calculated revenge. He says so. And I see a mixed side that GENUINELY wants to protect my child, but by manipulating everyone, and threatening me, because he feels unsafe with me. :stars:

I feel his youth and my crises broke him into pieces. That do not fit together. And do not talk to each other. As I developped parts. That do not fit. Though they talk. And it is not a calculated way to get back at him. I'm just terrified. And emotional. I want it to stop. 

Anyway, I will keep it simple. I feel like sharing the full story. But it will make me sound absolutely nuts. Oh I wanted to say: my dad didn't sexually abuse me..."just" physically and emotionally abused me.  Uncle abused me. Dad "just" said I was a real bad person for getting scared over it.

I think I will tell a bit. Then see if they are safe. And I can tell more.

I am also just terrified. I spoke up since kid was a newborn. Even if I had no words. First about his own dad. Who was worse. Then about my parents. The mental health and cps services did nothing but talk it out of my mind. Or help dad. Until I believed I was the problem. Even when I called the police and said they stole things or kidnapping was threatened by ex and I could prove it...they did nothing. I find it hard to trust those organisations.

It did not ever happen that someone talked to my dad, and still believed me after. Except one person. Who saw his behaviour with no mask. And they later withdrew it. Possibly after dad pressured them. Dad said he did. 

It is just so weird. Both parents had sides that felt truly loving. Not like a psychopath I knew who felt cold. Or my ex who felt so locked in, that I could not reach him emotionally.

I try to speak up and try to think how to defend my kid. But I cannot make sense of it. And everytime I verbalise the abuse, CPS starts to work against me. Rather than for me and kid. If I minimalise it, they think it wasn't that bad. If I say everything, they think I'm crazy.

I am very very very hurt. I got a message from CPS. The organisation they hired (not the systems therapist) to research the possibilities for kid...only researched the possibilities with dad. They did so by asking his flying monkeys. They all said dad was the greatest ever granddad on the face of the earth.

They just sent their report. Which said there were no worries at all. Dad masked well. They took over dad's words that I'm instable etc for kid as fact. A big time back dad told this somewhere. Every organisation takes this over and repeats it. It stays in the file forever now. Everyone passes it on. As if a fatct. Even if nobody ever tested it. It was just gossip.

They also said they will not research whether kid can come back. Because he was there too long. And has it good there. Apparently you can destabilise someone with abuse and steal their kid. Without anybody ever wondering if he can come back to his mum. Of if there's maybe a reason for her stress.

I broke my own promise and called dad that I was angry and wanted him out of my life. And that he hurt me and kid horribly. He said that was fine and he didn't care. Every little bit of my heart breaks and hurts today. And I feel guilty for not having been able to break the cycle. Because my own pain got the best of me.

And I'm telling myself it's a punishment for the fact I couldn't forgive my father better. And be kinder. Maybe if I always responded calm and gentle to their abuse, as my faith asked, I would have prevented this. :(

At this moment I do not want to be kind and gentle though. I want to do as my dad's mum did his dad....probably out of utter despair...and throw the dishes to his head.

Quote from: Matilda2 on May 20, 2025, 02:16:37 PMI am very very very hurt. I got a message from CPS.

I'm so sorry Matilda. I can't do anything to help except stand with you.

Quote from: Matilda2 on May 20, 2025, 02:28:21 PMI decided to not let this blow me away. I will continu doing the stuff I find important. And being there in the time I have with kid. I even refrained from responding to the report in emotion to this organisation

 :thumbup:  :applause:  :applause:  :applause: You are strong!

Tho if it helps, do emote to this organisation in a safe place e.g. here on Recovery Letters

Thank you.

I hate to say it but I think it's going to take legal action to get your child back and keep him away from you both (if that's what you want).  I Googled how to deal with a malignant N in court and here's what I got back:

To navigate a legal battle with a narcissist, focus on presenting objective evidence, maintaining composure, and seeking expert legal counsel. Document everything, including communication and incidents of abuse, and be prepared to explain narcissistic personality disorder to the court. Prioritize the child's best interests in custody cases and avoid being drawn into emotional arguments.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

1. Focus on Facts and Evidence:
Document everything:
Keep detailed records of all communications, interactions, and incidents, including texts, emails, social media posts, and recordings.
Gather witness accounts:
If possible, have friends, family, or professionals who have witnessed the narcissist's behavior provide statements.
Seek expert evidence:
Consider obtaining a psychological report evaluating the narcissist's mental health, which can help the court understand the patterns of abuse.
Stick to the issues:
Avoid personal attacks or getting drawn into emotional arguments. Focus on the facts and the specific issues at hand (e.g., divorce grounds, financial arrangements, child custody).

2. Understand Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
Educate yourself and your lawyer:
Be prepared to explain to the court what narcissistic personality disorder is, how it manifests in relationships, and how it impacts behaviors.
Recognize narcissistic tactics:
Understand the common tactics narcissists use, such as manipulation, gaslighting, and emotional blackmail.

3. Maintain Composure and Seek Support:
Practice self-care: Dealing with a narcissist can be emotionally draining, so prioritize your well-being.
Lean on your support network: Connect with trusted friends, family, or therapists for emotional support.
Seek professional legal help: Find a lawyer experienced in dealing with narcissistic personalities, who can navigate the legal process and protect your interests.

4. Prioritize the Child's Best Interests (in Custody Cases):
Focus on the child's welfare: Always prioritize what is best for the child in all aspects of the case.
Avoid placing the narcissist's needs above the child's: Narcissists may try to manipulate the court into favoring their own interests, so focus on the child's best interests.

5. Be Prepared for a Prolonged and Contentious Process:
Anticipate challenges:
Narcissists are likely to prolong the legal process, making it difficult to reach a resolution.
Set boundaries:
Be firm in setting boundaries with the narcissist, especially during negotiations or court proceedings.
Allow your lawyer to lead:
Involve your lawyer in all aspects of the negotiation process, especially if the narcissist is likely to push boundaries.

It's a lot I know but it sounds like you are at the point where you're going to have fight for custody and that means you'll need support. You're beaten down and that means you may not have the energy to get through this which is why connecting with agencies (e.g., women's support) and a therapist who will support you will be important. 

If you Google how to beat an N in court there are a lot of links so maybe skim those too and see if anything makes sense as far as your situation goes. There may be law firms near you who will do this work for free.

Thanks. I got my emotions back on track. Sorry for ranting so much here. I am indeed beaten down. And need to mask in front of others, which is my worst skill.

I fought since kid was born. I could win from my antisocial ex. But I had superb expert witnesses. Several. And he had nothing at all to use against me. Because I was calm and kind. I don't think I ever really fought back. Even once. Until I realised. Quit contact. And never showed him my despair. Even then CPS chose him. Pretended it was a mutual conflict. Without even one single sentence of fighting on paper from me, because I did not say anything abusive at all, and tried my best to be sweet. Even then we were only rescued by the judge.

With dad...not a single judge will believe me. Dad was extremely calculated. I don't think he is a malignant narc. I still cannot believe that. There's a good side to him. But he documented my every wrong. Hid all of his. Played the family and family friends carefully. Played kid. Made sure everything practical looked perfect.

I did the opposite. I did want to genuinely heal myself and him and kid. Inside. But after years of terror about my child, and taking on the complete system, I wasn't and am not my best self anymore. My emotions were on the outside. My life was messy. Dad has a lot to use against me. That is understandable if you know the context of his behaviour AND experienced narcissism yourself. But not to anyone else.

I will connect to an agency. But he was hard enough to fight his own child to near suicide for a decade. And not flinch. I was not hard enough to fight my own dad. My pain over my child and my family was visible to all. From 100km away. I do not really have hope. To be honest. I knew last year that I had to stay silent. But yeah. I don't think I can win this anymore. He started fighting a decade (or a few decades) earlier.

My best hope is the systems therapist. Because she may be sensitive enough to look beyond surface level. Sensitive people pick up something is not right. Several did. Still being a stupid * and despairingly begging and screaming for my dad to work together kind of...will backfire.

I'm still somehow hoping I can reach my dad, and we can be buddies, and do this together. But yeah. Well. Yeah. I'm also so disabled by all this by now, that I cannot care for my child fulltime I think. I asked to be placed in a mother and child home together. For me to recover. And kid and me to be observed. To get all the advice we can get. I also asked to place him in a foster family I knew well. CPS refuses this. But maybe the systems therapist will back me up. At this point I'm thinking maybe I'm so hurt, that dad is a better carer for kid.

Anyway. I'm still ranting a bit. I'm out of ideas. Staying strong enough till kid is an adult and being there for him best I can is also an option. Dad doesn't abuse kid, I think, other than alienating him from his mum and every healthy person on her side, and playing his family apart, and telling him he is very mean if he shows the slightest critical emotion. Which is bad. But I'm not sure at this point, I can still offer him anything better. Except that I wanted the best for him, and protected him from much worse abuse, at the cost of being utterly destroyed myself. But he can't profit of that much. If I'm all sad and anxious. :-/ I'm not showing much instability with him. But he knows I'm in pain. He isn't dumb.

I fought for my child to the point of breaking. And should have taken better care of myself as well...as I was needed for him too.  :fallingbricks:

I am not strategical and I am out of strategical moves. :-/

And I feel I just have nothing left to offer kid. I loved and trusted my dad. Except for kid, he may have been the person I loved most. He completely and utterly broke my heart.

All my despair of the last years was heartbreak over kid, but also confusion and heartbreak  over dad himself. He did and said things I never thought him capable of. And he just...his complete coldness when I reached out to him...and kid reached out to him...I don't think I knew that of him of before mum died. I feel he had some sort of trauma shut down.

Mum would verbally abuse me and he would sit there and not help me. When I was a kid. Or he knew I had a completely untrustworthy abusive boyfriend, and thought it was none of his business. And shrugged. But at this level...I never saw it in him.

There were normally kind sides to dad. I am heartbroken over both. To be honest. I want to reach both.

I was working hard to ignore all hurt and get my own life in order. I need to pick that up tomorrow.

My house, my garden and my finances are rapidly improving. I organized help for the things I cannot do by myself. I have a few truly dear friends and neighbors. I have a job I love. A nice church. I'm improving my physical health. My contacts in all these places are warm and open. I need to function consistently well there. And collect proof of that. 

The moments kid was here were calm. He did notice I was sad at times. I need to hide that better. I want to openly ask the systems therapist for help. I need to offer kid a better place here even if in pain. I arranged for a foster family for afternoons to send kid at times I feel too hurt to be a good mum. 

Cps may want a genuine research. I need to shift focus to convincing them. And the systems therapist. Im going to put all the family problems on the table. Mine too.

I also need to stop putting negative energy towards dad. Of any kind. I cannot win this battle in court. I can prove a few things, like him and brother beating me to the ground, or a professional calling him narcissistic,  but they already said they don't care what he did to me. I've heard of courts allowing visitation to a dad who murdered the kid's mum, because anything towards the mum is allowed. It doesn't count. They see it independent of his behaviour to the kid. I can prove his family was narcissistic, autistic, sadistic to part of the kids. It simply doesn't count. I said kid told me he was frightened...it doesn't count. It wasn't recent enough.

I said I needed a shelter to recover and be observed with kid. They don't allow.

I heard a lawyer say she wanted to throw chairs at cps for never understanding situations like this. I want to by now. I've been telling them exactly what was needed for 14 years.

I'm guessing I have to accept kid grows up with dad. And have to work on getting my side in order. As to not hurt kid more. I think kid may be harmed more if I start a gigantic battle in court. I don't know.

I will cry my eyes out when nobody is looking. And build something good on my side in the rest of the time.

I think the most strategical move i can think of is to ask for parallel parenting. Quit all contact with dad. And then magically recover in all areas of life. If I succeed at that, somehow, I think that would together with the slight slivers of proof I have, make them feel there's something weird going on.

In combination with the npd story that I can prove. The beating story. And trying to get the systems therapist on my side. 

Also, if I succeed, but in court I fail, kid has his mum back at least parttime. Rather than a messy sad mum.

And it may cause dad to think. Ideally. I need to get up. In whatever possible way.

Sorry for whining so much btw. This is the safest place to express my pain and confusion. I do not want to mask. I want to compartimentalise the hurt though. And be a nice mum, a joyful carer at work, a good friend. It's necessary for kid too.

Matilda, I don't think you're ranting and you're certainly not whining! All this pain you're going thru now - present pain, past pain, envisaging future pain and difficulties with your dad - it's got to go somewhere, it needs to be expressed! That is partly what the forum is for, especially if there is nobody safe in real life to whom you can express even a tiny bit of this. But even if there were that person, you'll find most of us on OOTS use the forum to express too. Because there is so much that never had a chance to be expressed. It was not allowed in most (all?) of our pasts.

In the general scheme of things, I'm not going thru anything like the heartbreak you're going thru rn. There are things going on, things to mull on, limits and boundaries to set, help to look for etc etc but nothing like what landed in your lap recently. Still, I'm on the forum almost daily and today I told my occupational therapist about a whole lot too. I just needed somebody trustworthy to listen, trustworthy in the sense that people on the forum are. And it did help to say some stuff again and to hear a few more comments from him. Anyway, not your lookout rn - but just know: I'm 99% certain I'm not the only one on the forum who understands what you're going through and is quite contented for you to keep writing, to get this FOO poison out of you bit by bit, chunk by chunk. I'm probably not even the only one cheering you on!

Keep up the good work :cheer:

And when you're uncertain because some boomerangs have come back to you, feel free to come back and ask. It's pretty normal in recovery to start doubting yourself again.

 :yeahthat:

Thank you.

I'm lying awake. I hate myself. I should have cared for kid better. And if I hadn't expressed my pain, dad would not have had anything to use against me, for I have no fights with people outside the family and all will happily report that for me.

I have a lot of emotional pain because of the situation. But when kid is here, things are rather quiet and peaceful. I seem to often be able to switch to a positive part of me, when around kids and my kid in particular. On a day like yesterday I show sadness. But I'm not running through my house screaming and yelling. Or whatever. I don't think I ever raised my voice at him. If I'm a little irritated I say sorry.

My family portrays me as extremely fearful, instable, incompetent, etc etc around my kid. CPS-like organisations take this for fact. Without checking. They never even once looked for themselves. I have asked them to put in home video training in my home. And judge the real situation and give real feedback. They don't. I need a way to prove how we have it here.

I asked kid very short questions for a year...a grade and whether he thought it was calm and fun here. After every visit. He was always positive, with the exception of a two-three times when there was a fight with dad, when he gave a 5 or so. Our holidays together he gave a 9.4 and an 8. Which seems good for a teen. (10-point scale, 1 is lowest, 10 is highest). :) I asked on text. Dad startled when he learned this. It torpedoed a plan he had. Apparently. Quickly after this kid didn't want to continu. I do think kid may also report as he wants me to hear. But still.

Now kid doesn't want this because he finds it stupid. Which it is. I do have a friend who went on a holiday with us. And wrote a good report. And my neighbours who often see us together for coffee. Who wrote a good report.

I want to BE a good mum to kid. But I also need to PROVE that I am good to him. Organisations are easily scared with gossip. Especially since I'm the one with the CPTSD label. I am fine looking at my real flaws. But I don't want gossip to rule the reports.

Any non-invasive ideas?   

I want to be strong for kid. But the pain is so deep. Uncle, mum and dad took my childhood. My physical and emotional health. My family. My kid. And all the dreams I had for us. And I helped dad with that. Because I could not contain my emotional pain over what happened to my kid. And he raised my kid in a way that makes him withdraw. I see him develop tiny habits that make me worried. And nobody hears me, because he doesn't act out.

It may not seem like it. But I'm quite strong. I shrug if someone sexually abuses me or threatens me nowadays. I stay calm. The situation with dad is worse. That they pulled my own child into their scapegoating dynamics...and alienate him from me...and from himself...and raise him with their values...dad teaches him to lie and commit fraud with taxes as an example...and destabilise me, so that I cannot be the mum I want to be...

I refrained from doing anything today. I'm sitting on my hands to prevent them from typing angry stuff to everyone.

But I've seen this in process for years and years...like seeing a car crash in slow-motion...and I'm not capable of steering it in another way. I do not know where to find the strength to contain this pain. And still be there for my child. Every single person in the CPS system I ask for help, makes it worse. They are known for doing this. People actually flee our country for our CPS system...and other European counrties like Poland do not sent such refugees back to my country,because they describe our CPS as barbarian.

They told me "maybe I was a more vulnerable child than my brothers". Well no. You idiots. My one brother has depression and suicidal feelings, and said "he had nobody to love". The other built a life around fashion, career, design furniture and the like. And attacks his sis. Verbally and physically. Doesn't sound like a loving family. Does it now? And if you sexually, physically and emotionally abuse one kid...and tell the other kids to "never be like their sister"...that kind of leaves a "funny" dynamic. Where one kid crashes and thinks she is worthless, and the others think they are perfect.

I see my dad is utterly emotionally incompetent. If your child admits to incest and you tell them she had a "bad personality for not daring to visit anymore". Or it "is not logical to talk to her, because she already talked to her mum"...or your grandchild tells you he's scared of you and you keep him awake and tell him he saddened you until he is despairingly crying he is sorry and wishing to sleep...or you bully his mum until she begs you to stop, because you make her suicidal...and you say: no I will not do what you want. Or your grandchild says he wants to die because of what it's like there, and you blame his mum for telling him - which I never did, he said it himself. You are a * sicko. It may seem small. But it's thousands and thousands stabs like this. That destroy all our bonds in the complete family. He drives us apart. All of us. From ourselves and each other. I wish he'd rape me. I really wish he did. That would - maybe - show them what happens. All these tiny little bits erode all of us. And I can never explain.

Everyone judges me for being in pain and fear over this. But what kind of a mum would I be. If I shrugged and thought: sure, fine, no problem. I should have picked up my baby and left abroad, left all of them, when kid was a newborn. And I was still stronger.

I've * told maybe 200 professionals by now. And none of them did a thing. Except for a midwife, psychiatrist and psychologist who testified against my ex, I must say. But the rest? Zero. Psychiatry even tried to persuade me incest did not happen and was in my head. AFTER uncle admitted it in writing to the complete family. And they ALL confirmed my story. Police refused to take my report of PROVEN kidnapping threats by a foreign man with PROVEN detailed plans. And PROVEN access to a gun. My family stole my diaries and kid's passport and they assumed I made a false report.

Do these professionals follow a "how to drive someone crazy in 5 quick steps"-manual? Seems like it.

Many sorry's for ranting. I just have no way to express my pain. I need to contain in it my real life. But I see my child withdraw and mask to everyone...in a way that worries me deeply...and I wish he'd beat kids up or scream...because that would signal to them there's a problem. Now they all say: no no no, he's fine.

And I want my family to see it. They are all super content with themselves. They don't give a *. About anyone really. Except my depressed brother, and he's sucked into the family. If I contact him, he calls dad immediately. And dad keeps kid away.

If I see a homeless person I cannot help, and hurt over him, dad shrugs and says: not my problem. Don't know him.
If I see a father mourn his child who died over a medical failure, and hurt over him, dad shrugs, says: not my problem. Don't know him.
If my elderly friend dies, and I mourn, dad shrugs and says: stop crying, it doesn't help. 
If people in my area struggle to buy food, or are overweight, or mentally disabled, dad shrugs: hahaha look how poor/dumb/crazy/fat.
If I worry over a little girl I knew, whom I wondered was abused, my family says: not your problem.
If I read about kids in Congo mines making our phones, I hurt over them, and dad says: haha at least they have a job.

I know he is hurt. I know. I wish I could dig up his feelings. Somehow. But do they not see? Do they not care?

I know dad isn't a psychopath. I know he has feelings deep down. But he built a fortress of walls around them. I do not think that is good for kid. Also, I feel alone. Because I'm feeling everything for all of us. And I cannot carry that alone. It's too much. I want my family to stop focusing on fancy holiday trips and pretty designer clothing. And hold me and kid. Comfort us. Cherish us. I want us to be kind and sweet to each other. Not as a mask. But genuinely. That's what helps the pain.

I also want to return that. But it just doesn't land. I send my dad a sweet card. And hear nothing. I offer to help him do groceries when I'm there and he's working hard. He get irritated. I put a hand on his when he is in hospital. I feel him freeze. He cannot accept my comfort either. And he has this circle of people around him....who all think they are very loving by denying his issues and telling him to be harder and colder. And they do not see they are hurting us all. Dad too.

I want to share a story that broke my heart.

A little girl was severely abused at home. She was placed in a foster family. CPS does horrid screening. So the foster family was more abusive than her original family. The girl again was heavily abused. She was so brave. And spoke up to everyone. To CPS. To people around the family. And at a certain point she was found over and over approaching random strangers on the streets. Telling them she was abused. Please help. The people innocently brought her to CPS... thinking they'd help. And old these monsters did, was return her to the abusive family.

Until the girl was beaten into a coma. And her life was in danger. I think she came out the other way, but disabled, not sure. Then it was allover the news. And the only thing the CPS monsters did. Was come up with a billion excuses for why they didn't help. I know many stories like these. CPS is known for it.

They dont care about a little girl nearly beaten to death. They didn't care when my ex threatened to kidnap my kid and murder me and spoke of a gun. And when they drove me to insanity. They won't care about subtle family scapegoating/parental alienation mind games. No chance.

I think I have to accept the fact that I have the time I have with my kid. And grow as strong as I possibly can. And be there in the time I have. And ignore all the little stabs and tricks and gossips. It's unimportant. I need to be there for my kid. Maybe dad will turn. Maybe not. It's his problem.

I have the same experience with others. My neighbours verbally abused their baby. I think it stopped now. Thank God. But I spoke to them myself. And also called CPS several times. They did nothing.

A lady I know has an alcoholic neighbour. She hears her scream and hurt her child. The boy doesn't seem to get much love. She calls CPS often. They do nothing. Last year I spoke to the boy and he seemed emotionally open still. Very sweet. Yesterday I saw him, and he seemed very withdrawn and shielded.

A man I knew said he was a psychopath. His daughter had emotional problems. She was even suicidal. It was blamed on giftedness. I had a bad feeling. I called CPS three times. They did nothing. One said they were happy he knew he was a psychopath. I think of contacting her mum. I found her on social media now. But I don't know how. It's too long ago. I feel guilty often. 

My ex had two more children. I made a police report of sexual abuse and kidnapping/femicide treaths. Nobody thought of maybe monitoring him. He is not allowed to see his child. And now has two younger ones.

I noticed a little girl at work got scared at the toilet. I suspected abuse. I as a volunteer had to urge my professional colleagues to do something with it. They suspected female genital mutilation. Parents were avoidant. Only because I mentioned it, they picked it up again. They say 40% of mentally disabled girls are sexually abused, because they are such easy targets. Hard to ask for help, if you can't speak. Another girl at work always touches her and others genitals and complains of stomach aches with gestures. Nobody thinks that is weird. A boy comes back with cigarette burns and cuts. He is non-verbal. Nobody takes him away from his parents.

When I was a child, my aunt died and left four young children. My uncle was abusive. Everybody knew. Nobody did a thing. My aunt and uncle helped the girls when they were adult and very broken. But nobody ever...it was just accepted as a fact that he abused them. The boy stole. The girl wet her bed at 13. The other girl as a toddler clung to our family if she was sent back to her dad, crying, not letting go. My whole family did not interfere. 

I feel these kind of things are just totally off the radar of CPS. I cannot take care of my child as I wish. I really wish I could be a better mum. I do not know how. I asked for help from the moment I was pregnant. For protection of abuse. CPS only ever made things worse. I hurt over my own child and children like the above. I just feel so frustrated and angry over the complete lack of care in society. And I want my family to see and hear. So that at least I'm not so alone, and we can make our own little family better.

I have suicidal thoughts at the moment. I will not do it. But I just see all this...and I feel like nobody hears me...and I cannot even protect my own child. Or reach my own dad and brothers. Let alone others.

OK. I am proud of myself. I connected to an agency that has experience in divorce and narcissism. I don't think it's going to help. But I'll try.

I just hate myself. I tried so many times in kind and calm ways - off the record. Dad would respond horridly cold - off the record. Upon which he hung up. And I yelled on text: stop abusing us, you are harming us all, stop daddy, please stop hurting us, stop. And he'd be very correct and surprised on text: why do you act so mean? And tell everyone I was instable.

Or he'd literally drive me to near suicide with sabotage. Until I begged him: please daddy, please, for kid, stop and seek help together. He'd respond: no, I will not do what YOU want. Then he'd sit playing the caring dad at CPS, telling them how worried he was that I'd commit suicide, and that this caused instability to kid.

Or he'd tell lies to brother, brother would tell lies to all the institutions, child therapist mailed lies to me writing she severely disagreed...daddy says SHE did wrong and he'll make sure she loses her licence. If I remind him he told those things he says: you cannot prove that.

If you see your child - the mother of your grandchild - break down completely because of your behaviour. That is calculated and well thought out. Not reactive. What happens in his mind? That makes him think this is a good idea? He sees his child and family go to ruins, his grandchild slowly withdraw...child begs him to please please stop hurting them...and he thinks... ??? ?

I did a * of stuff wrong. Kid suffered a lot from my bad choices and trauma. But what I find difficult to understand is that he...it's not feeling so panicky that he snaps. Or something like that. It is calculated scheming. And telling himself he is doing that for the best of everyone.

What is he thinking? Does he even remember the things he does and says?

Sorry for writing so much. I am in pain. Dad says he has a lot to use against me if I ever speak up. What he can use against me is my desperate pleas to please stop the abuse. Please cooperate. Please stop hurting us. Please stop driving me to suicide. Without proof of his actual abuse, this sounds utterly crazy and mean. CPS lacks awareness of these dynamics. And choses the side who presents best.

I showed dad all my vulnerabilities. Every time I did, he used them against me. For example to isolate me from family, or get CPS on his side. Every time I asked him for help, he used that against me. Every time I was honest about mistakes and said sorry. When he'd help me out, and I said something about later abuse, he'd say: you have no right to speak, because I just helped you.

I hate this type abuse. If he had beaten me up. He would have been the perpetrator. Now he hurt and bullied me so much, also by isolating me from the people I loved most, and hurting me through kid, and hurting kid himself...that I was in pain...and I was actually the one doing the damage. By ending up in a ward with depression. Or lashing out: stop please stop! Or panicking. Or sharing vulnerabilities with him.

I hate this type of abuse for this reason. He pushes all the right buttons until I have an emotional response. But I have the response. Be it love or anger or terror. So I'm responsible.

I went walking and drinking something in town. I refrained from responding. I spoiled myself with food I like. I will clean up the house so it's good when kid is here. I hope the agency has good advice. But I kind of gave up. Dad reached all his goals. I hope he is happy. He thinks he is perfect. And the fact that he wrecked his child and hurt is grandchild is completely irrelevant to him. He says I should not bother him with complicated talks and let him have his nice old day. How anyone can have a nice old day, knowing he destroyed his family, riddles me.

I tried explain on mail.

It doesn't sound like it is my life. I went through a ton of trouble. A lot. It just sounds unreal. Like this is not me.

 :hug:

Thank you.

I didn't do anything weird today. That's it. Everything is broken. Dad, I, kid. The family. There's nothing whole anymore. I had hope of how to fix it for a very long time. And now I do not see it.

Dad completely withdrew in a delusional world where he is the perfect dad and didn't do anything wrong ever. And if I say I hurt over the broken family he says he sees no problem. If I say I hurt over kid he says kid is perfectly fine. In his mind we're all fine. Because he cannot face the truth that his denial and my despair wrecked us all.

His daughter has suicidal ideation. His grandkid is very hurt but doesn't show it because he doesn't allow that. His children are not on speaking terms and will never be because of his lies. This is irrepairable because they want me to admit dad's lies are truth. Before they talk with me. And I will not. I see no way out. To be honest.

They want to start systems therapy. I asked for years and years. But at this point I no longer want to. Dad lies anyway. It is useless.

I felt good, but this news totally undermined me again. It's a never ending fight.

I let aspd ex visit his kid a few times...and we are still stuck with the aftermath. What destruction these people cause. Kid and I had it good in the beginning. We really did. Years of court fights destroyed everything. And ex is happily continuing his life. Without a millimeter of guilt. I feel guilty over what he did to us. But him? Nope.

I don wish * on anyone. But I do hope he is shown what he did to us and everyone around us. In afterlife. Just for a bit.

Neither me nor dad were like this before my run in with ex. Sure, traits were there. But the extreme stress drove us a much deeper into our trauma behavior.

Matilda, maybe it's time to get some help from a professional given you are having a lot of suicide ideation. When we are deeply depressed everything tends to feel dark, broken, meaningless. Although it may not feel like it there is help out there, there is. As a start, we have a list of organizations here - https://www.outofthestorm.website/emergency. 

You and you child are worth the energy it takes to reach out, please take back your lives and call! 

 

Thank you. Sorry. I will not do it. I'm just in a lot of pain. I stand up. Feel stronger. And these dumb organisations do something to show there's no way out again. Because they cannot look past surface level.

I do manage to keep living in the meanwhile. And actually doing stuff like see people and be friendly. Or work. Or clean. Or care for kid. I just do not know how to express the big pain. And where to go with it. Because covert narcissistic behaviour is so...cruel... that it makes the perpetrator look like a saint. And you as a horrible person if you take the bait. Which is exactly what it is intended to do. I cannot turn anywhere to be freed from my dad - at least with my kid. And any pain I express to him, will be like banging your head to a wall: you only hurt yourself. And he will only be confirmed in his ideas. If I call family they start ranting about things I did...and that they heard from dad...and didn't happen at all. 

I'm expected to deal with heartbreak over my kid. And function perfectly calm and adequate in the meanwhile. Or I will make it worse.

I do not commit suicide truly. I cannot. I just want an exit option. Out of his clutches and crazymaking. I wish I knew someone who went through the same. But I'm their favourite target. I know he did weird stuff with his business partners. But I can hardly call a stranger and say: "ey, this is the daughter of *dad*, do you also think he is a manipulator?"

When I asked he gave me their names. So he may have done it in such a way, that they didn't even know how they were fooled. He bragged about it.

Any ideas on where to leave pain while trying to function like a normal person is welcome. :blink:

I spent all day just feeling bad and not acting on it. I'm proud over the latter.

I read somewhere we should be joyful for trials, because God teaches us perseverance through them.

I think after losing my childhood, mental health, physical health, nearly dying a few times, the care for my kid, my family, several dear friends to death or in a worse trauma period, my home, my money, my job, my partner and his beloved daughter, my dreams, my reputation, some of these many times...and struggling with guilt, shame, terror, catatonic psychosis, and anger...

I have learned the lesson I should not fall for handsome sociopaths. Because there's more important things than looks and smarts and charming words. I shouldn't lose my temper when bullied. I should take better care of myself to care for kid. I should not give up when something bad happens. Etc.

Now I am a slight bit fed up with learning perseverance. Can we stop now? :))

I was assigned this as reading tonight for a sociology class and I immediately thought of your situation with CPS Matilda. https://www.thefriendshipcenter.org/post/the-myth-of-mutual-domestic-violence

Thank you. That is brilliant. I might even use it to send to CPS and systems therapist. To give words to our sitaution. There's three organisations. One frames it as "dad is perfect, mum is ibstable". One says "there is a mutual cycle". One says: "there is a cycle but we are clueless where it started".

I will also hear today of the narcissistic abuse agency.

I finally send a mail to the systems therapist + CPS.

I did not write much. I just said that I had trust in them and wished to start therapy for me and kid quickly. But I ask for a pause before starting systems therapy with granddad. I said I begged for systems therapy for a decade. But at this point I first need a safe space to talk about what really happened at home. Without fear of retaliation by granddad towards me or kid. That I did not dare do that before. And important things were not mentioned. That the story is different than it looks now. And they see a different granddad than I see at home. I said I'm interested in systems therapy. But I want first to discuss whether this is safely possible.

Or something like that. 

I do think I also had a big role. There were moments I saw dad soften. And I could not accept. Because I was angry still. And he never explicitly said: ey, sorry, I will change. But rather secretly changed subtle things. And said the past never happened. It had always been like that. Please forget the past en be merry. :doh: (Dad, this little thingie with you blaming me for incest, scapegoating me for decades, driving me insane, isolating me from the complete family and taking my kid away, until I literally nearly suicided myself, and kid literally did not have a healthy mum for years...might possibly need some talking?).

I understand him though...there was a time I was changing real hard...but had no words...could not speak...was also angry and ashamed. So I get it. But at this point I need him to apologise and set things straight. Not simply stop abusing us. That doesn't give me back my mind, my kid, my family, my trust in him. Nor kid a safe childhood.

I am sorry for shouting out my pain and anger and grief. And swearing in the process. It is near unbearable. Especially that I fought so hard to free kid from my sociopath ex - who was a lot worse. Until I was broken. Then was caught by my parents - who are more caring and subtle. But still not healthy.

I think my father has some vengeful traits. But has the idea that he genuinely does good for kid. Most of it is not malignant. His methods are very calculated and manipulative. But he is also scared and in pain and fighting for kid.

I found a good lawyer specialized in psychological abuse and alienation. Even then I likely cannot win. But I decided I have a right to fight for my kid. If dad cannot handle that, while he nearly fought me to death, that is his problem. I will ask the lawyer for advice though. It may be better for kid to take the Solomon's judgement route: let the other party have him, or he will be torn to pieces.

I will try forgive. What dad did was the worst I've suffered in all my life. Much worse than incest. By far. He deeply harmed my kid. But I also gave reason. Amd harmed kid.  By not understanding his fathers and grandfathers games earlier. And by panicking.  I carry part of the blame. We brought out the worst in each other. Rather than cooperate. He had all the power. So it wasn't equal. But I knew what to do and didn't.

I read a story from Corrie ten Boom. It said if you do not forgive, you draw the cord of a bell. Each ding dong of the bell going back and forth is your hurt. If you let go, you start to heal. But the ding dong...the pain...will continu for a while. Before it stops.

I need to focus on the future and what is still possible there. I just have to. I hope the lawyer has good advice. I think forgiving changes the tone you speak with. So others hear you more.

Today I had my period and I'm home bound. Tomorrow a friend will be baptized. I need to cling to my faith. And forgive. Even if I can still stand up for us. That works together. The more I have forgiven, the more adequate my actions. Because it means I see reality and act by a calm desire to stand up for what is best.

I did good stuff too in between freaking out.

I connected to friends. I worked. I was given a new bed for me and kid for free!!! I shopped for basics. 

I mailed the systems therapist some things and feel very guilty.

I keep thinking I saw it wrong. There was so much good in my family too.

And one of the reasons my sociopath ex picked me for, was being full of joyful
naive trust and wanting to heal him. This was also because of the good things my parents gave me. The care there also was.

They have narcissistic patterns of communication. Like triangulation or gaslighting. Which just terrifies me since I had my ex.

But they had a kind and loving and warm side too. A genuine one. Not fake.

I feel for you as you struggle with this. You are trying so hard for your child. I do hope for the sake of you and your child that you can find a good outcome. Thinking of you.

 :grouphug:

Thanks.

The agency and all lawyers specialized in this cannot help. They are fully booked.

The systems therapist seems to listen. I hope that helps.

I got a slap on the wrist from CPS to "think of the interest of my child". Me fighting to get him back, is interpreted as causing him unrest and not acting in his interest. They are always said to do this. This basically leaves you defenseless. If you argue against their report, you are said to harm your child, and this is used to take him away. And if you do not argue, you lose him too. They already decided years ago that they wanted to push this through. And all their research is utterly flawed. They only spoke to dad and his minions. What kind of research is that?

They never even looked at my care for him. Never. They blamed me for a billion things. That they heard from dad. And never checked. They didn't even come look at me and kid once. CPS is involved now for half a year. And never saw kid and me together. Or spoke to anyone who did. Not once.

It's also...just totally unfair. Dad fought strategically for years. He hired a lawyer years ago. Always acted strategically. Weights every word. Calculatedly influences kid and family. Hides his problems.

I am honest. I never wanted to strategically fight my dad. So I never thought of hiring a lawyer or collecting evidence or hiding my flaws. I asked help everywhere and spoke of my problems openly. Now I just told them I disagree with the report. And want to ask advice from my lawyer before I respond. I am slapped on the wrist for fighting at the cost of kid. When I just want the full story heard. And genuine advice given by a lawyer who knows what they are talking about. Whether to fight or let it be.

CPS is known for this. But it still feels so unfair. The most manipulative party wins in family court. Everyone knows this.

I feel sad.

My trauma hurt me. I lost so many things dear to me. It also hurt others around me. I hate how I just cannot love people around me in the way I'd like to. The fear and grief they had over me. If I had been capable of recovering better, I'd been able to give them so much more.

The uncle who sexually abused me as a young child...he wrecked so much. I was so innocent, and he created a lifetime of hurt for me. And if I had recovered better...I would have healed...and the people around me would have healed.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4H1VgkyFo1g

This is what I recognise in dad. It also explains the difference with malignant narcissism. I think dad is most extremely avoidant in his attachment, and so deeply ashamed about what he did, that he cannot allow for empathy or selfreflection.

It also needs a really strong core to see your child shatter to pieces in psychosis, and be in deep terror, and know it is partly from fear of you. Or to know your young child was sexually abused by someone you left them alone with. After which you rejected them for being scared.

If my son would get psychotic now, I would know that I contributed with my choices, and this would be the worst pain and shame. I would either need to block it out and pretend it wasn't me. Or feel absolutely horrible about myself, even more than I do now.

I need to forgive dad. He simply cannot cope.

I just called him up and told him I forgave him, and wanted to make the best of things together. And even this made him angry.

I need to give him a break. He cannot do better than he does now. He needs to pretend he's perfect or the shame is too big.

As I cannot always think of the horrible things I did, because I'm shattering when I do.