In about an hour I'm going for my first EEGq scan to begin a treatment of Neurofeedback in August.
References: Sebern Fisher's book, "Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma".
Here's a YT video of Sebern Fisher explaining the fundamentals of Neurofeedback treatment for Developmental Trauma (DT)
https://youtu.be/fiG3DXysqBs?si=BGe8Dtz1ZZWCSf4j
I've researched my Neurofeedback therapist's training credentials. (She's actually Swiss, not French, which already seemed a good sign.) The center where she trained is in the south of France and the information on the site clearly indicates they are aware of the specificity of Developmental Trauma. I also had an excellent feeling with her and she has been very competent and reactive since our first meeting as well as being understanding and supportive. I've not known her long enough, but in this life we sometimes have to take chances.
I'll use this thread to recount my experiences. As usual, any thoughts, reflections, experiences of others is MORE than welcome.
🙏 chart
🤞
Hiya Chart,
Thanks for starting this and keeping us posted!
-Cascade
Good luck with the appointment Chart :cheer:
Meeting went well. My therapist seems really really good. She is open and extremely knowledgeable. Seems we have a very similar trauma history. This fills me with extreme hope that I can bring down my fear-factor... soon???
I've been in a medium EF since... well, weeks maybe? The past three days have been strong constant fear, crying from the tension 2-3 times a day... anyway, ok, the ball is rolling...
Electrodes all over my head. Apparently there is in fact a brain in there. Waves shooting out across the cosmos... I just stared at the dot and did what I was told.
My therapist will now analyze my scan, which took less that ten minutes. It takes far longer to get everything set up.
The analysis will determine the protocol of what waves we want to encourage and "where". I will understand all this better with time and experience.
We'll begin working in a little less than three weeks. There is homework:
Cardiac Coherence
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dGJkzyKHKUE
Breath in through the nose as the dot moves up... breath out through the mouth as the dot moves down. Three times per day minimum. I was complemented on my natural breathing from my diaphragm.
Chart, this sounds awesome! Great job! :thumbup:
:waveline:
-Cascade
And just for your own self (you don't have to share here), I hope you get a copy of the scans! I'm sooo curious about my own brain after watching the first 25 minutes or so of the Sebern Fisher video you posted. ;D
-Cascade
Thanks Cascade! I'm curious too, only I have a lot to learn for all this to make sense.
Two other important things I forgot to talk about. One, I need a blank journal...
Two,
TRIGGER WARNING *Fear*
My therapist asked me to identify what I wanted to "focus" on. I replied that I want to reduce my constant Fear. The Fear that parasites my mind on a nearly hourly basis. The Fear that binds me to my bed. The Fear that violently grabs my guts when I hear a door open in the hall. The Fear of morning light because it means I have get up and face a universe that terrifies me.
T asked if I could find an image that represents that Fear. I thought of those images of black holes, the Event Horizon clearly defined by the lens-distortion ring... ultimate black in the center... once past that point, crossing that line, I disappear forever... it is death, destruction, oblivion...
Death, destruction, oblivion is what I hear on the other side of that door. Downstairs the screaming means death.
Tears run, I am so afraid, and so ashamed of being afraid. Can I please ever be free of this?
End TW
You know Chart, that's a really interesting image you have of what your fear is "like." A few years ago when I was starting to learn about IFS, I did one of the exercises around procrastination in the Jay Earley book (can't rememeber if it was the Inner Critic one, but I think it was the first book). I was immeadiately dropped into what I call the "black." There was no part as per normal, or an inkling of a part, just surrounded by black, but it was as if it was alive. There was some sort of life or vibration to it. So, I did what I could think of (I guess coming from a place of fear perhaps) and challenged it. A spider came out. On the edges of this black ( I can't remember if it was before or after the challenge), it was like there was a golden light with these figures (not human, sort of like stone faces, but benevolent). It sort of recalls to mind the vision of your even horizon.
I started trying to find out what this was. It wasn't like a part, but it seemed real. I came across someone called Michi Rose, who helped Richard Schwartz develop IFS and was one of the first teachers of IFS, talk about working with the Void as a great source of healing and likened it to Buddhist traditions version of the void, or as Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche says, the ultimate source of being and infinite possibility. For me, I've also sort of come to understand this fear that comes up as a understanding of that place without the experience of love or "mother" as interestingly, that is also the name for that space (in my understanding). So, this began my journey into buddhist meditation. I wasn't able at the time to find out very much on Michi Rose or how she used the Void. I took a course on the four elements meditation, which is essentially a form of soul retrieval. I asked my teacher/mentor on the course about what had happened, thinking it was the Dharmakaya. He suggested that perhaps it was the kunzhi, or the base from which all things come. I feel like this is perhaps why the spider (interestingly linked to the grandmother in Native American traditions, and women as the creator goddess) came out at that time.
I'm going into detail because I think it might be interesting that perhaps what you're seeing is not from the recesses of fear of just your own mind, but a place that is accessible to us all, which might help reframe your experience of it and make it a little more manageable. I understand that this is not on the science end of the spectrum and these are just my own experiences.
https://bon.miraheze.org/wiki/Kunzhi
Dollyvee, I did a "spiritual cleansing" about four months ago. My immediate memory here is foggy as usual, but at some point the shaman asked me "something" and a vision appeared in my mind of a spider crawling out of my mouth. It was not repulsive or frightening.
I'm going to go back to my journals and see if I documented the experience. The memories will also slowly come back if I let them.
Everything you wrote interests me deeply. As a diehard atheist I sometimes feel disconnected from the spiritual. But it's clear now that our sense of "self", that deep knowing/loving spiritual sense of self is clearly totally out of whack in developmental trauma, if not entirely absent.
I did Vipassana years ago and firmly believe, from that experience, that if I spent one year doing the technique, adhering to the strict routine, it would bring immense healing.
The connection or lack thereof with the void and emptiness is clearly a big element in finding ourselves and healing on the deepest levels.
The spider symbol needs research as well.
🙏🕷🙏
I found my journal documenting the shamanistic ritual. The objective was a "reintegration of the in-utero infant". I can't claim either then or now to have fully understood the ceremony. It's a friend who has a doctorate in plasma physics... But now makes ritual drums out of roadkill animal's skins. She offered me the ritual to try and help me. Sweet person. And I'm open to ANYTHING and all.
At a prompt from my friend doing the rite, I had a clear vision of a spider appearing, climbing the front of my body and crawling INTO my mouth. I was neither frightened or disgusted. The spider seemed to become part of me...
I can't remember what she thought and didn't note that in my journal. Funny I've been thinking of calling her recently as it's been awhile...
Spiders... and black holes...
Thank you for sharing that Chart. I made a post in my journal because I went back and looked at the spider symbolism again. I found a couple references that talk about the "spider-woman" as teaching us about that is repressed, and/or are afraid of. I think my experience of that spider would likely mean different things than yours. For example, in challenging the black (which was probably because I didn't understand it and was scared), it brought out the spider, which was again, more fear, and then was dropped into a cave of probably repressed feelings around how my mother treated me. I was also doing IFS around a specific idea, procrastination, and these are the things that came up around that. Your spider could just be a beginning awareness that there are things that are repressed perhaps, or that are maybe just being awoken? No idea though. Your friend might be able to teach you how to go back there again so you can experience it and see if there's anything you need to know. IFS might also be another way to do this.
I also think that perhaps the event horizon as a place and the spider could both be similar and different if you see what I mean? For me, the spider happened in the similar "event horizon" place, and is associated with fear. Perhaps, your even horizon is also associated with fear, but the spider event (even tho it may be associated with something repressed, or maybe not and could be more along the lines of a body protector) is something else.
Either way, I hope it lessens the fear you are experiencing. Also, thank you for letting me hijack your thread a little bit. It's been helpful to go back and revisit this experience and my own fears during it.
All that's really interesting Dollyvee. You're not hijacking, your augmenting the dynamic of the thread. And that's invaluable, thanks!
I'm going to explore this a little more as well.
As an aside, I adored the film "Kiss of the Spider Woman" when I was a teenager. William Hurt... I even had the movie poster in my adolescent room.
Hi Chart, just wanted to say this neurofeedback does sound very interesting and powerful. Good luck with that!
And also, my take on Buddhism is that all these things that are bothering us in our present times, are just learned patterns, they are not innate. Our core in fact, if you will, is intact, it is whole, it is always present, although we do not recognize it all the time. We are shrouded in the veils of our trauma, but that's not who we are deep down.
Take care dears!
I find what you wrote very interesting Desert Flower. Neurofeedback is clearly very scientific. However my T has clearly stressed the immense importance of the Spiritual. I'm slowly starting to have an inkling of the "relation" between the concept of "the self" and how this concept is profoundly spiritual. Construction of the Self seems to get severely interrupted in DT (Developmental Trauma). Thus the necessity to "rebuild" our "selves" in the healing process. Buddhism also stresses these ideas for expanding consciousness and reaching higher levels of contact with our "core" as you mentioned. And I think this Core is what can link us to the higher or expanded sense of being.
Perhaps, in a way, our "torture" in childhood now pushes us to do the extra work, through healing, of finding or creating that core ourselves. It's like a nightmare-shortcut to enlightenment.
I'm mostly guessing here. And rambling. Like so many others here on the Forum, I feel a deep drive to make "sense" of what happened to me. I think we are desperate to find ANYTHING of "positive" from our Trauma.
It's not easy...
Before I move on, I just wanna say I don't want to push onto anyone any of my beliefs. I'm just saying what is helpful for me.
And also, maybe we should be changing the topic of this thread now ;-) But anyway.
What you're saying is also true Chart. It is awfully hard to make anything positive out of our experiences. And in case anyone has any doubts: no, we did not do anything to deserve this. We were normal children who were entitled to a normal chilhood like everyone else. Only that's not what we got. And now that we had such a * start in life, I do think maybe, in some cases, (certainly not in all cases!), there may be a silver lining to this cloud, like Pete Walker says: we may be rewarded with an emotional intelligence far beyond the norm. I'm sounding all positive here, I know. And I also know that some days, we cannot see any of this. Still, wishing everyone the best on our worst days.
The "irony" that Buddhism states that the root cause of suffering is attachment is not lost on me. For everyone else, they must let go of their attachment to things, and identity, it seems. However, with developmental, or preverbal trauma, we must let go of an attachment to something we never had, that core concept of love and safety from which to build our identity, and the one from which most people build their sense of secure attachment. For me, it's as if the experience of the "infinite possibility" comes with an infant's sense of terror/fear/annihilation that a baby experiences because it doesn't have any other reference for survival.
For me, I've had to do some of the work to build my self around the spiritual because I think it is that sense of attachment that was lacking. Hmm maybe that's not the right phrase, but understand that my self connects to something more than just my attachment wounds. I'm really careful about spiritual bypassing as well because I do think that's a thing. How does one recognize their infinite light and possibility when they are an "unwanted" child? I don't think my mother was prepared for me and/or essentially wanted me (I was told that I was a mistake, an "oops"). I also know that my gm wasn't prepared for, or probably wanted my m at 17. How do you reconcile being in the world and having a Self when you come from a line of people that didn't want/weren't prepared for their children and then used them to deal with the trauma they themselves had experienced/were experiencing? I think to put this in a fair context for ourselves, you have to look at "something else" to connect to, whatever that is.
That being said, I don't see Bon, or Dzogchen, as a religion per se with an firm idea about "God," though I guess that's in there as well, though maybe in a more pagan sense. To me, Dzogchen is a training of the mind to deal with the things that we were given, and a path to understanding of the nature of mind. I feel like that's the best I can do given the emotional chaos I grew up in. However, on some level I also have to deal with those emotions as well.
(I wanted to make a reference to something I read a few years ago in a book called, The Energetic Dimension, about Tenzin Wangyal's teachings and how she *said* it was difficult for patients with trauma to approach the exercises sometimes, but I can't find it. I don't think "training the mind" is easy or necessarily the "answer" to deal with developmental trauma either, it just seems to align with some things that came up for me).
I remember the Kiss of the Spider Woman poster!
Thanks DF. I don't think you're pushing your ideas. I feel you're sharing what you think. I also think the link between brain science and Buddhism is quite strong :)
Dollyvee, I appreciated immensely the observation that with DT (developmental trauma) we have to try to let go of something we never had. In Buddhism we are taught also to embrace the Void. Is there a deeper idea of letting go of even "the void". Can one let go of Nothing?
This makes me think of Peter Kraus's book, A Universe from Nothing, which I read a long time ago so can't remember much nor do I think I really understood it at the time.
Could letting go of Nothing, "create" Something?
Hmmmm....I think here's the rub I think though. There's a difference between nothing and infinite possibility. In Dzogchen we are returning to the nature of mind, which is infinite possibility. In the video on Overcoming Fear, Rinpoche talks about fear as being the experience of loss of identity without the idea/experience of infinite possibility, or experience of love (?). The void is not empty, it is infinite possibility, or the base from which all things come, good, bad, evil, angelic, whatever, and both -everything, and all- are within us. It is the source for potentiality.
:yeahthat: ... what Dollyvee said!
I love this discussion! Thank you all for your thoughts. Where I am in my own journey, this makes me break it and down and apply it for myself, using the words I've been working with.
Shame: I am nothing, I am no one, I have lost all identity.
Love: Infinite possibility, nature of mind, nature of self, and the source of potential.
:bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
With compassion and love,
-Cascade
That's great Cascade! :cheer:
Thanks Dollyvee, thanks Cascade, yeah absolutely, I'm getting a ton out of this as well.
Here's some more:
Polyvagal Theory and Coherence cardiaque
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dGJkzyKHKUE
There's an app too!
So the idea is to calm the central nervous system.
It seems to be working for me. I've been doing it for about a week, 3 times per day... usually.
Kinda like Tapping, but actually deeper relaxation feelings. Not just "imagination work".
Just did it three times in a row. Reduced Fear 50%.
This is one of my T's prerequisites for the Neurofeedback that starts in August.
I like your comparison Cascade and is really thought-provoking because I want to look at how these concepts come up in me and how they relate to what he's saying, or what I have learned about Dzogchen. I feel like when things come up, he says to accept them as they are, that they come from the same place. For example, if there is something that bothers you, you are to look at it as if it is just a dream (from the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep). However, how do we do this if it is perhaps a preverbal part of our brain that expereinces these things are still the age when they were when these things happened and the cognitive parts of our brains hadn't been developed?
That's great Chart. I'm glad you found something that works for your anxiety and is helping. I had a look but wasn't in a place where I could do the exercises, so would like to try it when I get another chance.
I realize in going back over what I wrote about nothingness and emptiness that I might have been projecting onto what I thought you were trying to say Chart. I understood your ideas of emptiness as perhaps coming from a feeling of aloneness. Going back over the Tibetan Dream Yoga book, I also think that I wasn't correct in saying the void wasn't empty because he describes it as empty, but I think it's the way that we might experience that emptiness that's coloured by trauma ie as fear/love, which is where I read into what you were saying.
I hope things go well with the neurofeedback t in August and you're able to find some calm space for yourself.
Started Neurofeedback today. I'm exhausted... it kicked my "derrière". I'm beyond tired. Tons of breathing and relaxation and then "brain training": Targeted "good" (low) beta and (high) alpha. This is active concentration and rest at the same time. Beta was visual and theta was music. It's all Pavlov's dog... if your brain is in the right wavelength, the roller coster advances and the music doesn't cut. But if you're not in the targeted wavelengths, the music or image stops. It happens fast. You try to "figure it out". The brain searches. This repeats and we discussed "strategies" each time through. Very interesting. After we discussed lots of other stuff, classic therapy. Today's session was four hours!!! Future sessions will be less. Still tons churning in my brain. Immediately post-session I felt AWFUL. Depressed, sad, hopeless. I'm a bit better now. Had lunch and a coffee.
So now a semi-practical summary of what Neurofeedback is:
Computer images (can be sounds too) linked to a wave-capter on the head. If your brain is in the targeted wavelength or "state", the image is fluid, if not it stops. Very naturally you want the image to progress smoothly, so you "adapt" your "thinking" to accommodate this process. However it's not really "thinking". It's literally a brain state. This part is pretty weird and nearly impossible to describe. I did get better over the six run-throughs. This is gonna sound totally bizarre, but my best scores for concentration were when I brought up and stayed with specific memories of making love to a woman I had a short relationship with in New York. I discussed this with T and she confirmed that sexual energy helps concentration immensely.
So my personal summary: weird as heck. Still lost and unsure. But can't give up now. I'm having a growing suspicion my Trauma was truly horrible for the stage of development I was at when it occurred. I guess I'm trying to give myself some slack for being so messed up. Will try to keep posting here my experience with this. It's REALLY complicated for my brain to get. Struggling in the trauma-swamp of limited comprehension...
WOW Chart. This is amazing stuff. Congratulations!
:fireworks:
Be most gentle and kind with yourself today. Soothe yourself as much as you are parenting, if at all possible. Allow yourself time to moderate back to center a little bit. Sending support, love, and hugs! :hug:
Thanks for the chuckles you included, too. Beyond knowing you're okay because you can make those little jokes, I'll let them lie. :bigwink:
-Cascade
Hi Chart,
I'll second Cascade and say, well done :cheer:
Sending you support,
dolly
Wow Chart, that sounds absolutely incredible! Very well done. :applause:
Thanks everybody! Back at it tomorrow!
:grouphug:
NeuroFeedback therapy is continuing. My previous detailed entry contained a few errors which I've corrected. As mentioned the computer training is coupled with regular Somatic work. I think this is an absolutely critical element. It's slowly coming to me just how important Body-work is to my therapeutic process. NeuroFeedback without Somatic work would be like only doing maintenance on your car's moteur. The tires, the suspension, changing a burnt-out bulb, you ignore. The car's obviously not going to perform correctly, might even become dangerous, and definitely won't pass inspection. Imperfect analogy maybe, but just to say that with my T I am doing the following:
Guillarme Method (sorry, this is only in French)
https://www.methode-guillarme.com/
(This is perhaps the most impactful as it centers around the stomach, intestins, diaphragm and perineum. I should mention I have an inguinal hernia and so I am following all these movements with an extra awareness of what's happening in that area as well. For the moment I've had zero problems.)
Jacobson stress and release relaxation
https://www.healthline.com/health/what-is-jacobson-relaxation-technique
The Moro movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GoXgd7lbb0
Cardiac Coherence
Explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u0JjjikmT0
Tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqwCr1qISd4
All of these techniques are very Euro-centric. I had trouble finding information about these techniques in English.
So the NeuroFeedback itself is very slowly becoming a little clearer for me. There are many things to possibly focus on, but in my case my T has targeted two areas that we actually do at the same time. I should probably give an overall explanation, but am way too tired right now and have to get to bed. What I need to get across is that NeuroFeedback deals with the brainwaves that are all associated with different functioning of the brain. These are "seen" because they are all different Hertz waves. So if the capter picks up waves of 0-3 hz you're problably mindwandering, healing from an injury, or asleep (or maybe all three) :)
Along with these different waves and their associated activities, we can make links to different parts and regions of the brain. And this too is important, especially when coordinating a targeted approach to "healing" a specific (mal)functioning of the brain.
In my case I have "too much" high Alpha, and "not enough" low Beta. (This was registered in my first session where we did a full scan.) And this means that I am present but I have big problems getting moving, I'm anesthetized, numb... typical Trauma symptoms. I think my patterns are typical, though not exclusive as Trauma does vary greatly depending on the individual characteristics of the person. I also have real trouble activating my own concentration, especially on tasks. As mentioned in our Zoom meeting last night, I can do anything for anyone, so long as its not for myself. Motivating myself is nearly impossible, and in the past I have used mainly alcohol and caffeine to get anything done that wasn't related to anyone else. Simply put, I don't do the things for myself that are good for me. And as a sidenote, I've heard that mentioned on the Forum often by other Trauma survivors.
So the computer sessions I am doing are "pushing" my brain to reduce Alpha and increase low Beta...
(Low Beta is also known as SMR - sensory motor rhythm http://neurofeedbackstudio.com/2014/03/23/what-is-smr-and-how-does-it-make-you-relax/).
...This is done through a series of videos that you watch, and the scene advances smoothly if your brain is in the target zones. Same for the music. When your brain slips out of the targeted frequencies, the images and music cut. At the end of each video there are numbers and percentages and you can see if you went up or down, etc. Progress will also be clearly recorded over the weeks and weeks of training. At last I will have my chart, a piece of paper documenting whether or not I really am improving or not. Self-trust is also something I'm working on, but I'm not there yet. For now I profoundly appreciate the numbers I'm seeing as it validates what I have always not understood at all... namely, why I am the way I am.
Take any therapy process you want. I think it is all about rewriting and relearning what we never got in our childhoods. Okay, now I'm really rambling.
Absolutely gorgeous sunset tonight. I'm thinking of you all. I love you all. I wish us all peace and release from the terror enforced on us.
-Chart
There's more stuff that has been posted on YouTube about Neurofeedback (and the brain and trauma). This is very interesting. I especially like what Van der Kolk says around minute 8...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQT9v02N2vk