Hi all :wave:
It is so interesting how concepts are processed within a traumatized brain, and how one can become aware of something for a long time but who knows when one might act on it.
For a long time I've been aware of the idea of letting go of my anguish from my ongoing family dysfunction, but it's only been recent that I'm starting to feel and understand the benefits of no longer feeling and acting like a victim.
Recently I hit a "oh no you didn't" wall with my mother. :fallingbricks:
As some of you may know, my (u)NPD sister has banned me from from our immediate family gatherings almost 10 years ago, and my mother (and everyone else) goes along with it because of fear of upsetting my sister. I was able to attend my nephew's wedding last year as he apparently made some deal with his mother to allow me to go. I thought we were finally done with this crap, then recently my son tells me he's been invited to my mother's 92nd birthday, with the understanding that I'm not invited.
Of course this news threw me for a loop, as I traveled into yet another emotional flashback for a few days... :no: - that usual feeling of "how could they"? How could she (my mother) stand for this? :'(
THEN, I was zooming with my mother a few days later, and she casually asks me if my son could attend her birthday party, as we were talking about him. I looked at her with this rather shocked face, so you are asking me, the person who can't attend your birthday, if my son is able to go? :aaauuugh:
This was the frigging last straw for me!! :aaauuugh:
I wrote her an email afterwards about how painful it is for her to not to understand how her actions hurt me. Knowing from experience that I shouldn't send it right away, I waited, thank goodness.
Because I FINALLY REALIZED, I don't want to be that person anymore!! I don't want to have to continually remind people how they hurt me!
What I now am beginning to truly understand is I can let go of the hurt and anguish and still be true to myself. :yes:
I can MOVE ON, and this painful identity of scorned sister/daughter/aunt can basically vanish. :dramaqueen:
So that's what I'm working on now... :cheer:
Thanks all for being there...
:grouphug:
Good for you :cheer: That is a big step :grouphug:
Congratulations :applause:
Thanks for sharing the birth of your new outlook. May it continue helping you along your healing journey.
You know Healing Finally that is a huge step so congrats! It's appalling that your S has managed to turn the fam against you but that us what some of them do. It's such a betrayal that your M would ask you if your son could go. How on earth did she think that would make you feel? What a betrayal. I hope writing the email helped you bring that to the surface and let yourself feel the power of saying the **** with that, no more.
:hug: hug if that's OK.
Well done, Healing Finally! It seems like it should be a simple enough realization, but it's such a freakin' hard place to get to! Realizing that my mom said and did things like that for the express purpose of hurting me was a tough one for me. But your experience is so familiar to me.
I think turning your back on that identity they created for you is so powerful. Once you walk away there is nothing they can do to you. They'll try, for sure, but you rock that grey rock!
Healing Finally
This post certainly supports your chosen name of Healing Finally. I think of this as a major step toward releasing the distress that your FOO has caused you for Far too long.
I applaud your decision to not tell your family how much they've hurt you over the years. That's victim speak. You're moving past being their victim, so no point in having the last words be about how much they've hurt you.
With narcissists, when we complain to them about how we've been treated, it actually feeds their viscious natures. It proves to them that they were able to hurt you, and that's actually what they've always wanted: to hurt you.
Saying nothing, but just walking away and shaking the dust off your feet is the cleanest and most appropriate way to end the abuse. Just like when you don't like a TV show, all you have to do is turn off the TV or change the channel.
Whatever they choose to say about you after you've vanished from their abuse is their problem. They'll try saying things that they wish they could hurt you with, but when you escape a narcissist, THEY suffer terribly. Escaping them is the only thing you can do that hurts them. Narcissists don't make friends, they take prisoners. Period. The ONE thing that sets a prisoner free is escape and vanish. You aren't hurting them, they're choosing to reel in anger. You can go away feeling no guilt or shame for having said anything hurtful. You just escaped a predator. That's all you've done. You've escaped a predator. How that predator chooses to feel about it is something you have NO control over. Live and let live.
I'm so happy to have read your post. I sincerely hope you are able to feel good about your decision to just let them have whatever it is they seem to need in life, but without you to kick around anymore.
My heart really goes out to what they've put you through all these years. It absolutely hurts more to be excluded than anything else. They've found that it's fun to exclude you, and that they really enjoy knowing that they've hurt you. But if you no longer even ask to be included, well...now they have to find another way to get their jollies.
I'm pullin' for you!
Thank you all for your positive responses. :cheer:
Just FYI, I am not doing what I wanted to do!!
The party for my mother is today, so geez, I really wanted to not let it get to me, but omg, I just haven't gotten there yet.
Also my nephew's wife in in a musical (she is playing Nancy in Oliver) and they are all going tomorrow to see her, damn I would have loved to have seen that.
I'm totally anxious and can't focus and can't do anything but sleep and watch TV.
So, that's what I'm doing.
Maybe next week I can start on the no longer being a victim thing... :stars:
It's so weird how the brain can go forward and then backwards again! GRRRRRRRR that dang C-PTSD!
Thanks for being there....and helping me to have faith.... :grouphug:
On seeing your post, I want to say a few things. I hope they're helpful. Easier to see for other people than for myself of course. Others on the forum remind me of them when I can't see them for myself...
Quote from: Healing Finally on June 02, 2024, 12:49:46 AMJust FYI, I am not doing what I wanted to do!!
The party for my mother is today, so geez, I really wanted to not let it get to me, but omg, I just haven't gotten there yet.
Please be gentle with yourself. You're making huge progress.
This "no more being a victim" thing - that's a really big step to make, especially from 100 to 0 or even 80 to 0 (or wherever else you would have put yourself on that scale before you decided to not be a victim anymore). The same goes for not letting the party for your M not get to you. Our emotions take their time to settle down, our heads - our 'wants' are head-driven I do believe - run on ahead but can't force our emotions or nervous systems to settle.
Quote from: Healing Finally on June 02, 2024, 12:49:46 AMI'm totally anxious and can't focus and can't do anything but sleep and watch TV.
So, that's what I'm doing.
It's OK to be just sleeping and watching TV. Another mbr reminded me a couple of days ago that processing goes on during sleep, dreams and - I remember now - while I'm zonked out. Or sometimes we just need a
rest. Self-work and the processing that goes with it are tiring. It's understandable that we need rest.
Quote from: Healing Finally on June 02, 2024, 12:49:46 AMMaybe next week I can start on the no longer being a victim thing... :stars:
I think you already have started on it...
Quote from: Healing Finally on June 02, 2024, 12:49:46 AMIt's so weird how the brain can go forward and then backwards again! GRRRRRRRR that dang C-PTSD!
Something I heard a long time ago, which I don't remember being said here on OOTS but maybe it has been: "Recovery isn't about reaching the end of a scale and staying there, it's about following the pendulum back-and-forth. There will always be back and forth movements but eventually the pendulum will stay more in the middle and not go into the extremes." That's just one way to look at it and it may not be correct and I often forget all about it.
Or of course: Two steps forward, one step back.
But also: Baby steps count.
Then again: Grrrrrr. :pissed: I totally agree. Sooo frustrating.
:hug: :hug:
Sorry HealingFinally that you're feeling that way, but IMO you did the right thing by putting yourself first. I'm sure that there are parts of you that very much want and need that relationship with your mother and family, but how hurtful it is to you to have people treat you like that.
There's an interesting part in Ingrid Clayton's book, Believing Me, where she talks about how difficult it is to be there for herself when she is still in a relationship with the people (her mother) who gaslit her growing up. I really resonated with this idea of "good girl" programming, that this is who we are supposed to be, putting other people before us, even when they treat us appallingly. I think because it happened from such an early age, it's hard to break out of this pattern of "that's who we are, and these are the things we're supposed to do."
I'm sorry you're not able to be there at the musical, but you are there for yourself at the moment and that's really important.
Sending you support,
dolly
Thanks Blueberry and dollyvee,
Sounds like I need to pick up that book "Believing Me" for sure.
Appreciate everyone's support.
Today I'm pushing myself to go see a jazz band in the botanical gardens, sounds like it would be wonderful eh?
But I'm dragging my heels, forcing myself to go.
NO MORE VICTIM...
HUGS :grouphug:
HealingFinally,
Dolly and Blueberry have said it all. I love what they wrote to you, and I can' add much more than a bunch of hugs for support.
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
No matter what you do today, or how you choose to handle this, you are loved on this forum, and your friends are feeling these pains with you.
HI all, I thought to give an update. :wave:
I did go hear the jazz band in the Humboldt botanical gardens yesterday and it was a great experience. I met with a (everyone is over 50 years old) group I found on the website "meetup", and it was just great to have a group to meet (vs going all alone.) I made some new friends and there are upcoming events that everyone was talking about (hiking is next.) I am so grateful I was able to get out. :cheer:
Last night I received a detailed email from my mother all about her weekend. It's the frickin' weirdest thing how she can be so disconnected from the hurt it causes me to hear about it. I'm so grateful I didn't read it until this morning as it set me off again. :stars:
I was able to talk to my psychologist about it all this morning, and I told her about the email I was going to send my mother (originally referred to in this post) asking her, should I have sent it? But, we both agreed it was good I didn't and she suggested I respond back to my mother "I'm glad you had a good time, it was a rough weekend for me." And so I did.
Still not going to be a victim, but I realize the C-PTSD can do it's number on me, at least I am feeling better today. It's not wrong to state my reality. Onward and forward, thanks for being there y'all. :grouphug:
Quote from: Healing Finally on June 03, 2024, 07:46:30 PMHI all, I thought to give an update. :wave:
I did go hear the jazz band in the Humboldt botanical gardens yesterday and it was a great experience. I met with a (everyone is over 50 years old) group I found on the website "meetup", and it was just great to have a group to meet (vs going all alone.) I made some new friends and there are upcoming events that everyone was talking about (hiking is next.) I am so grateful I was able to get out. :cheer:
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
HealingFinally
I'm SO glad you had fun with the meetup group at the jazz event!!!!! And, from where I sit, your mom's email bragging about how much fun she had without you was a dig. An attack. And by not responding, or by responding how you did, you didn't play into it.
She came off looking like the assailant. You came off looking like someone who didn't fight back and didn't deserve her attack. That's the stuff that changes the relationship. When her own meanness is the only thing hanging in the air, it points all fingers back toward her. If you had fought back, or said anything, your words would be the last words hanging. In her mind, your reaction would have made you the problem. No reaction leaves her own attack as the problem.
I feel some triggering in this and I'm glad I do, because it helps me feel my empathy with you. If this didn't trigger me it would mean I'm not connected to your struggle. And I like being able to send my support from a place of true connection. I'm not just a talking hallmark greeting card that's saying generic nice things, but I'm able to feel like I'm a true connection soul to soul with someone who understands me while I understand you.
Wow. I'm just so proud of you for going to the jazz event and having a good time while they hoped you'd be sitting around crying, or crashing their parties so you could look like you were crazy.
thanks PapaCoco for your thoughts. :wave: - my mother is not vindictive and really doesn't have a mean bone in her body. She is just totally clueless. She is a true flying monkey of my sister. She wants to believe we are still a family. I've asked her dozens of times not to give me details of events I'm not invited to and it's just pointless to do this anymore.
Way before my family alienation, I continually had to deal with my mother bending over backwards for my sister's needs while she stomped on mine. If I point out to her that she's hurt me, she will feel terrible, but her traumatized brain will then get mad at me for pointing this out and then I'm the bad guy again.
Part of my challenge in all this is to try not to take anything personally. I understand why my sister does what she does, and I understand why my mother does what she does; and honestly it has nothing to do with me!! I'm just the dumping ground. I just need to do what I can to stay out of the way, so that I'm not a victim!
HealingFinally,
You have a very mature way of looking at this situation. My hat is off to you. I am learning from you now. I wasn't so patient with my family when my sister pushed me out and I decided to go No Contact with my dad during his final year of life. I took it all personally. It was a very dark time for me.
Not taking it personally is the message I'm taking from you today. You are proving to me that it's healthier for me in the long run. I let myself fall into the role of the victim, so I saw escape as my only solution.
I like your attitude better than the one I was in during my time in the family with an evil sister and my family of flying monkeys surrounding me.
Your M may be clueless but honestly I wonder. Just my opinion but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how awful it feels to be shunned. And again JMO, but it's your right to keep telling her how much it hurts you to have her tell you about what a good time she had at something you were not invited to or with other family members that are basically shunning you.
How would you feel about blocking her if she doesn't stop doing things like that? It is your right to do so and IMO she really needs something to make her
hear you and understand that what she is doing is quite hurtful. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what it feels like to be shunned.
You said she is not vindictive and doesn't have a mean bone in her body but then went on to say
Quote from: Healing Finally on June 05, 2024, 06:51:41 PMWay before my family alienation, I continually had to deal with my mother bending over backwards for my sister's needs while she stomped on mine.
That does sound like she
is aware of how she is treating you on some level, otherwise wouldn't she treat you the same as your sister? Just saying Healing Finally IMO you deserve better, much better.
Hey HF,
I'm inclined to go along with Kizzie's line of thinking after I read your post. It sounds like gaslighting and that your m is denying space for your feelings to exist, and when you protest, she goes into victim mode. We can all have trauma, but it doesn't mean that we get to stomp on, or deny the way our actions influence other people. We still have to be accountable. For me, I learned that I had/have a very specific way of looking at my family (my gm and gf) because they were important attachment figures in my early life and I needed them to survive at that time. I wasn't able to see the things they were actually doing, and that the way they were behaving towards me was hurtful because I needed them to survive, which carried on into my adult life. It's a way of behaving that I adopted that keeps me thinking that I don't matter, my needs don't matter. Just because they had trauma in their life doesn't mean that your needs take a back seat, or you have to put them first because your are "healthier."
I think it was quite insensitive of your m to send that post and not inquire about your weekend at all. A lot of the time abuse is looked at as someone being mean/vindictive as in the classical definition of narcissism, but it's also much more subtle and can come in the form of gaslighting and denial. In relation to what Kizzie is saying about blocking your m, which might seem like a huge thing, I recommend reading the Becoming Me book. Sorry, it's advice but I think that book just illustrates so well what a lot of us go through, and the back and forth we do about is it abuse? Am I in the wrong etc? because we have been gaslit from such an early age. Spoiler alert, she does end up blocking her mother but talks about all the feelings around that too.
Sending you support,
dolly
Thank you again for your thoughts everyone, really appreciate it. :hug:
From dollyvee "...your m is denying space for your feelings to exist, and when you protest, she goes into victim mode."
:yeahthat:
UGH, YES this is what happens. I knew the second part, but needed someone to point out the first. :'(
Within my Out of the Storm Zoom #2 group meeting yesterday we talked about this a lot and I am starting to understand that I am denying my feelings, again.
I zoomed with my mother yesterday afternoon and I was going to ask her why she can't understand my need to protect myself but I just couldn't.
I think a lot of it really has to do with my need for her approval. UGH :fallingbricks: :stars:
I will work on this, thanks all for giving me more food for thought on my journey to HEALING FINALLY! :grouphug:
:hug:
HF,
I hope you're able to find some space to be gentle with yourself and sending you a hug if that's ok :hug:
It's taken me twenty years to start unpacking this same pattern I have in my family and it's not easy. In fact, it's heartbreaking when you begin to do it. I just want to say that there's others on the forum who are in your shoes and we're here to support you. I feel like if I were to ask my gm that question, she would have said of but I do love you and want to protect you. So, why did it never feel that way? Because it never went any deeper for me. We could only talk about me superficially (or when there was gossip and I was stressed, or in a bad place to vent), but when it came time to validate my feelings, or stand up for me, that protection wasn't there. My method in dealing with this wasn't to have to conversation with her where I asked her something like you were intending, where I could see clearly if she was able to support me or not in her answer (and in further explanations etc), but was more of banging my head against the problem repeatedly, constantly feeling like I was the problem then trying to work out why not because on some level I did need that idea of "love" and acceptance.
I hope you find some space to work this out,
dolly
HF
I understand your decision to hold back on talking with your mom about how you feel about the abuse you're taking from your sister. My thought is that any conversation that potent shouldn't be done until you feel 100% ready. You didn't feel ready, so you wisely held back. I would have done the same.
Hello all, thanks again for your thoughts. :wave:
Yes dollyvee, I'm going through the same thing, feeling grief about the unhealthy family pattern that didn't take my needs into consideration, and how I couldn't see it. :'(
I realize something that I've heard many times before, I'm the one working on myself and getting better so I'm the one that now can see the pattern. My sister and my mother are not, they are still stuck in the dysfunction and are not making any movement to change.
What I also realize is my mother has to deal with "cognitive dissonance", as she feels obligated to support my sister's beliefs and outlook while she deals with me and my reality of being hurt by it all. I appreciate you all pointing out her superficial behavior towards me, I've just been so used to her "caring" about me, but not to the point of making any changes to the awful family situation.
More here on cognitive dissonance: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/cognitive-dissonance
I did some EMDR on Monday with my psychologist on my need for my mother's approval and it helped! I realize it's really not approval, strangely, it's just acknowledgement; as I can feel invisible due to my sister's desire to remove me from the picture :disappear:
I am now working on not needing acknowledgement from anyone, just to be an active human being on the planet. :grouphug:
This is a bit late, sorry to have missed it.
I'd like to say how great it is to know you went to a Meet up and found some like minded people. It's good to get out and do something out of the ordinary. You might just do that again, or even add something to it.
As I said in group when we met last, I am acquainted with your struggle. Every day you can claim yourself without a label is a day that's moving you ahead. It takes a lot to disentangle from family dynamics. And even if therapists are kind and helpful, only YOU know how you feel inside.
You might find something here: The Karpman Drama Triangle. (https://karpmandramatriangle.com/) Stephen Karpman was a protege of Eric Berne and developed a theory of how people behave in ways that are frustratingly painful. It can be family members or anyone that you find confusing. Although the theory mentions a triangle, which you might assume contains 3 people, it is a game for 2 cycling through repetitive roles. Look on the left margin for articles. The site seems wordy and intimidating, feel free to check out the concept elsewhere.
I found great comfort and understanding there. It was my ticket to freedom.