Hi,
Not sure if anyone reads this.. but atleast I'd like to get it out of my chest. I grew up in an abusive household, from my birth onwards, until I was 21/22.. violent father, boarding schools with nuns, bipolar stepfather etc etc... as always biographies are long..
Back to the symptom/Dysregulation:
I always struggled with mornings, I always woke up with fear, and a very deep sadness about being alive, I used to have horrible nausea in my 20's.. before school and work. It did get better with time and therapy. Unfortunately it never went away, there are less bad days, yet it feels as if I am going to be dragged into *..
I know that cortisol plays a role in the mornings and that the stress is felt more intensely in the body.. what helps is Yoga and yet I forget to do my asanas.
Does anyone else struggle with this?
Thank you
I do have this Shankara but I never knew it was related to cortisol. I found this when I googled it - https://www.optimyz.com/morning-anxiety-and-the-cortisol-awakening-response-car/. Anyway, I find what helps is to get right out of bed which I guess makes use of the cortisol, burns it off perhaps?
I'm glad you brought this up. It's nice in a way to know there is a name for it, then when we talk to our doc/psych we can discuss it as a real thing - the Cortisol Awakening Response. Who knew?!
Quote from: Kizzie on February 28, 2024, 05:51:07 PMthe Cortisol Awakening Response. Who knew?!
Absolutely amazing!
It's honestly so good to know there's an actual name for this - helps me stop thinking "It's just me" as I do with so many things that are actually/likely CPTSD.
Another one I have is really weird dreams and thoughts when I use eye drops (or anything for that matter) with steroids in them. Who would think 4 drops a day would cause a reaction like that but they do. I also have reactions to caffeine, antihistamines, Gravol, and a lot of other medications (so getting meds to help with CPTSD has been quite a challenge).
I've learned my body/brain are really sensitive to a lot of things because of CPTSD -- luckily I have a doc who knows and accepts this.
Anyway Shankara, not to hijack this thread. I'd bet there are others at OOTS that have a similar awakening mornings and may have some other suggestions as to how to reduce it.
Quote from: Kizzie on February 28, 2024, 05:51:07 PMI do have this Shankara but I never knew it was related to cortisol. I found this when I googled it - https://www.optimyz.com/morning-anxiety-and-the-cortisol-awakening-response-car/. Anyway, I find what helps is to get right out of bed which I guess makes use of the cortisol, burns it off perhaps?
@Kizzie thanks for mentioning this.. yes, I suppose laying around, scrolling on phone, artificial light and so on and on makes it probably worse.
You say you have to use steroid drops? Is it due to a chronic condition? If I may ask, if not, just ignore my question. Sorry you are struggling with this as well..
have something called Histamine intolerance, yet this hasn't ever been officially diagnosed.
Guess working on ones circadian rhythms, eating the right food (Whatever that means to the individual), sleep, nervoussystem, is probably all essential?!
Hmmm this is interesting, thanks for bringing it up. I used to have this, it was like waking up bolt upright with dread. Sort of like, did I leave the oven on?
I hadn't noticed, but it's mostly gone away now. It does seem like it's something to do with cortisol (and am thinking inflammation in my case) as you mention. Over the past year or so, I've been treating mold/mycotoxins and feel like it's had a big overall effect on my "body anxiety." I also stopped having a glass of wine at night and think it's probably helping my liver, which was already taxed from the mycotoxins.
I also have big reactions to gluten (through gut dysbiosos + mold/mycotoxins), and have been gluten free for about 10 years. When I eat it it's like it turns me into a different person. I found that there is a connection between inflammation and your TNF alpha SNPs. In my understanding, these SNPs along with inflammation can contribute to anxiety and/or depression.
Quote from: Shankara on March 04, 2024, 08:28:38 AMYou say you have to use steroid drops? Is it due to a chronic condition? If I may ask, if not, just ignore my question. Sorry you are struggling with this as well..
I have something called Histamine intolerance, yet this hasn't ever been officially diagnosed.
I am getting a lot of eye infections (pink eye) and the treatment for that is steroid drops. I noticed I was having strange thoughts and weird unsettling dreams and it was the only thing new in my day. There were not stress events and my diet had not changed so I looked on the Internet and found this article https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9225910/#:~:text=However%2C%20GCs%20were%20also%20known,days%20after%20initiation%20%5B3%5D. I had real difficulties when I had steroids in my chemotherapy in 2007 (really bad anxiety) and linked the two. So, now I refuse anything with steroids in them.
Anyway, we are sensitive I think because of the constant stress we were/are under when experiencing complex relational trauma - loads of cortisol and adrenaline and so on and it changes our body.
Kizzie,
I just looked at the NIH article. Oh CR@P! Wow! Incredible information.
Quote from: Kizzie on March 05, 2024, 04:05:33 PMI think because of the constant stress we were/are under when experiencing complex relational trauma - loads of cortisol and adrenaline and so on and it changes our body
Totally agree. Our bodies have held up as long as they can, as well as they can, and then, boom, the bottom drops out. IMO it is not limited to pharmaceuticals, but can be any previously tolerated food, or slight change in our diet. I'm learning so much about things which were never on the radar before. It's discouraging but comforting at the same time.
I'm glad we have a place to share and compare.
Amen to that Lakelynn! :yes:
Hi Shankara and everyone, Yes! I am new here to the forum and just wrote about this in my introduction to being here. Yes! I have a pit of fear and anxiety in my stomach EVERY morning of my entire life. I can remember it as long as I've been alive (or nearly). The cherry on top so to speak is often when I hear the garbage truck passing outside, they always seem to go by really early in the morning and when I hear that it's like a lance going into my guts. I've never understood this until at some point in my therapy I figured out that I am way more "sensitive" when I am in a horizontal position. I believe this has to do with the fact that I spent my first four years as a baby in a horizontal position and heard all the shouting and slapping downstairs and around the house as my violent father raged against my mother and sister. I can't say for a certainty as I have no direct memories of this period of my life (something I struggled with in therapy for decades, trying to remember and "know" what happened) but I believe this is the reason. What I do now, as part of my current cptsd therapy is to just sit with the pain in the morning. I also talk to my inner child and let him know that we are NOT in danger, that this is just a flashback. I repeat over and over "the danger has passed, it was in the past, we are NOT in danger now..."
Hope that helps a little... Gros bisous! (as we say in France :)
Quote from: Kizzie on February 28, 2024, 05:51:07 PMI do have this Shankara but I never knew it was related to cortisol. I found this when I googled it - https://www.optimyz.com/morning-anxiety-and-the-cortisol-awakening-response-car/. Anyway, I find what helps is to get right out of bed which I guess makes use of the cortisol, burns it off perhaps?
I'm glad you brought this up. It's nice in a way to know there is a name for it, then when we talk to our doc/psych we can discuss it as a real thing - the Cortisol Awakening Response. Who knew?!
Hi @Kizzie,
I haven't deepens my knowledge on this though.. still taking in bits and pieces..
Thanks for the link! How have you been these days?
Hi @dollyvee
treating mold/mycotoxins and feel like it's had a big overall effect on my "body anxiety." I also stopped having a glass of wine at night and think it's probably helping my liver, which was already taxed from the mycotoxins.
Oh.. you've changed a lot.. glad you are doing better without the evening wine and having no gluten.
That definitely has a huge impact, from the little info I have for now..
Wishing you good health and stability !
Hi @ Lakelynn,
It's discouraging but comforting at the same time. I'm glad we have a place to share and compare.
Absolutely!
Hi @kizzie
had real difficulties when I had steroids in my chemotherapy in 2007 (really bad anxiety) and linked the two. So, now I refuse anything with steroids in them.
That's really tough.. and I do understand..
Hope you are in a better place now, health wise !
Supportive thoughts your way @Kizzie
Hi @Chart,
as my violent father raged against my mother and sister. I can't say for a certainty as I have no direct memories of this period of my life (something I struggled with in therapy for decades, trying to remember and "know" what happened) but I believe this is the reason. What I do now, as part of my current cptsd therapy is to just sit with the pain in the morning. I also talk to my inner child
Deeply sorry you went through such a horrible time in your childhood.. as I've mentioned on your other post, I can relate to that so much..
My bio father used to come home after a drink and abuse me and my mother..
Good to read that you speak to your inner child.. that's healing..
All I know is, that Body Therapies has helped immensely because those events took place when a child was pre- verbal, so accessing those ancient emotions through the body was key (Atleast for me), I used to cry endlessly when certain movements or asanas were done.. as if it was some sought od Katharsis..
as always different modalities for different people..
Quote from: Chart on March 10, 2024, 10:29:23 PMI figured out that I am way more "sensitive" when I am in a horizontal position.
This caught me completely off guard! It is so "simple" yet
so elusive.
I never considered body position in extracting or linking memories or experiences. This makes so much sense to me, and I can use it immediately. For years, when I lay down at night in preparation for sleep, I start to breathe differently, like an asthma attack. My heart pounds with no external stimulus. I always wondered what that was about.
Rationally, my mind can be neutral or dissociated. A side note here" dissociation has always served me well, I never considered it a downside, UNTIL I am dropped into a reality where my memories are active. Strangely enough, the repression and compartmentalization seems to disappear when I'm horizontal. Snippets from very early coming creeping in.
When I was in middle school, I would cry immediately on waking up. Every single day. Simultaneously I began to pull out my hair. The crying stopped, but re-emerged this past fall. Fifty eight years of hair pulling was only stopped by breast cancer,
Shankara, Thanks for your feedback and sympathy. Sadly you seem to know too well what I went through. I too am deeply sorry for you. I send you strength and good energy. We will continue to work. The thing I tried the other morning was to tell my inner child over and over that this feeling comes from the past. It is over now. Here, now you are no longer in danger. I think I said this to my IC (inner child, is IC right?) a hundred times. Eventually I got up to make myself my morning tea. The fear faded as usual being upright. But the next morning I awoke with 70% less intense fear in my abdomen. Perhaps it is unrelated but the more I seem to "speak" to my IC the more my anxiety seems to break apart. I don't know if I'm making huge progress but it does seem some small and significant changes are occurring. I suggest we try everything. Be patient and open to sensing small changes/improvements. I think this work makes us special... different... I don't wish trauma on anybody, but we who have it, and are conscious and desire change for the better, know things and on a deeper level than much of human population. Anyway, it is the way it is. I hope you feel my support. We will thrive more and more, I feel it in my heart. Good luck and thanks for your kind words.
Quote from: Chart on March 11, 2024, 08:12:47 PMBut the next morning I awoke with 70% less intense fear in my abdomen. Perhaps it is unrelated but the more I seem to "speak" to my IC the more my anxiety seems to break apart.
Chart, That sounds like progress.
Thanks for sharing Lakelyn. Sorry for the late response. I'm still figuring out the bells and whistles of the forum so I think I mix certain stuff up. Still can't figure out the Alerts' system... Anyway, yeah body position is really interesting and what it can trigger. Everything counts in our inner work and I try to really listen to my body. It can tell so much but stopping to listen isn't very natural but I'm working on it. Hair pulling sounds very telling. Remember all these things are your brain's efforts to heal and comfort. Considering what we have experienced our brains have their work cut out for them. It's an intensive weight-training workout for the brain... that goes on for years. Sorry to hear about your cancer. I send you love and support.
Chart, I know you're new. I never, ever put expectations on replies here. Elsewhere, yes, but not here.
Figuring out the ways this forum works can take time. And I've been here on and off for 10 years, and still can't remember some things! Doesn't matter. Eventually, everything gets said, done and read. I'm glad you're here. I've used the body position idea every day/night since I read about it. Thank you!
The BC diagnosis set me back into my old, paranoid view of myself in the world, but I am "bouncing back." Not forcing myself to do anything other than embrace what I have every day. Thank you for your support, it makes a difference.
Sorry I am a bit late to this thread but wanted to say thank you Shankara for starting it.
I can relate to what you wrote about waking up with fear, deep sadness about being alive and nausea. I'm glad that you found therapy helpful and yoga.
Chart, I like the idea of speaking to our inner child to comfort him/her. I will try that too.
I came across some other suggestions for morning anxiety:
- drink a large glass of water upon waking to flush out the cortisol
- 15-60 seconds of cold water at the end of a morning shower to calm the nervous system
- positive affirmations
Thanks PaperDoll. I'm gonna try the water ideas seeing as my morning anxiety has exploded in the past two days (I think due to going back on prozac).
I agree with Chart PaperDoll. I do water in the morning, but need to increase it to make a difference. I've read a lot about the cold shower thing, and I think maybe I could stand 15 seconds!
No way I can do a cold shower. I'm super sensitive to cold. I wrap up all winter long and can support the heat of boiling summer but not the cold. What would be best is exercise but I just don't have the willpower right now.
No way I can do a cold shower. I'm super sensitive to cold. I wrap up all winter long and can support the heat of boiling summer but not the cold
I get that.. It's definitely not for everyone.. maybe sometimes we just know what works for us..
The cold (For me, not generalizing) makes me stay in the present moment.. (I dislike that wording tho because it sounds a bit woo woo) and Cold feels weirdly as if I'm home.
Which is strange because I come from South Asia.
Sending support @chart.. I'm sure you'll find some kind of excercise with time when it's doable..!
Thanks Shankara, maybe hot-climate folks can stand cold better and cold-climate folks can stand hot better. I think my recent ancestors had nordic genetics. Maybe that's why I prefer heat and avoid cold... just hypothesizing out loud...
And thanks for the exercise encouragement. Didn't happen today but tomorrow is another day... as Scarlet once said...
Quote from: Chart on April 21, 2024, 03:31:07 PMThanks Shankara, maybe hot-climate folks can stand cold better and cold-climate folks can stand hot better. I think my recent ancestors had nordic genetics. Maybe that's why I prefer heat and avoid cold... just hypothesizing out loud...
Interesting.. maybe there's some truth there..
Welk the excercize thing.. you might walk a lot??? Dancing?
Good wishes your way!
Been having some bad mornings and then again where I felt "ok"...
There's some inner turmoil going on and a part of thinks that If I eat properly, I do my asanas, when I eat well, reduce sugars and other artificial stuff I can control this situation. This is unfortunately also something I tend to believe when I'm depressed. The harder it gets the more disciplined I must become. But this again is a form of trying to control some aspect of my self, be it emotionally or my physical body hoping to heal. It helps but it also reminds me of Joan didion "we tell ourselves stories in order to live".. it's also human, nothing wrong about that, but I'm also running away from certain truths.. it's easier to control some aspect of "whatever" rather than confronting the real demons.
I also felt pride about the fact that despite going through * in my childhood *, I'm disciplined and functioning almost like -look at me, look how healthy and disciplined I am- which comes with a deep sense of feeling inferior, and by showing how fit I am I kind of want to show play my strength. Deep down though I'm shattered and fragile.. same old dilemma..
Hi Shankara, I can relate to what you say about feeling shattered and fragile deep down while disciplined and functioning. Something which I have been doing recently which has helped me manage my anxiety is a 10 minute breathwork practice by Yoga with Adriene. I also try and do one of her at home yoga videos everyday if I can, even just for 20 minutes if I have a busy day. I stopped doing the 30 seconds of cold water as I found it didn't make a lot of difference for me however everyone is different so I think it's worth trying different strategies until we find what works. Wishing you well
Just wanted to come back and express a little. My morning fear is just hanging in there like always. I was a triggered a little last night and noticed it's worse than usual this morning...
I wish this would go away... I really do... :'(
Hey Chart,
I wonder if perhaps there are phsysiological factors which might be happening here and going back to the discussions around coritsol? Sometimes when we eat certain things, it can raise cortisol because of inflammation. Generally because there is gut dysbiosis present and/or/maybe another underlying root cause, which is causing sensitivities to certain foods. So, increased inflammation, increased cortisol. The other may have to do with alcohol, at least I think in my case it was also causing some inflammation.
Either way, I hope you get some relief.
dolly
Hi Chart,
Thanks for coming back to express yourself. I'm so sorry to hear about last night's trigger and then this morning's fear being worse.
You're usually very good about comforting your scared self and listening for new realizations. I hope the day has brought some relief and a little peace for you. My own morning fear is still there, too, and sometimes morphs into bold-faced shame. I still struggle to get out of bed every day. It's certainly no fun.
We're here... hangin' right in there with ya!
:grouphug:
-Cascade
:hug:
Yes, thankyou both, Dollyvee and Cascade. The idea of Cortisol has been on my mind too. Not sure how to test, but I'm pretty "off" everything, drugs, alcohol, red meat... except for sugar. That's the only thing that could be an inflammatory factor. And my refined sugar intake is not too extreme. For me, this continuing morning Fear is a big indicator of in-utero constant stress and terrifying environment. I want to write more but I'm exhausted.
Cascade, I really identify with not wanting to get out of bed. You mention Shame... I need to test for that.
Just drove 600 km to show my daughter the Mont Blanc. Need to sleep... sucks when you have so much more you want to say and think about...
Quote from: Shankara on February 26, 2024, 08:36:09 AMI always struggled with mornings, I always woke up with fear, and a very deep sadness about being alive, I used to have horrible nausea in my 20's.. before school and work. It did get better with time and therapy. Unfortunately it never went away, there are less bad days, yet it feels as if I am going to be dragged into *..
Oh I also get morning nausea. It seems to come and go but when it's there, it feels awful. Can't eat anything, the sight or smell of food makes me ill...
I've been having my own fair share of anxious mornings. Felt especially bad this morning, felt weak and shaky in my legs as if I was learning how to walk again. Makes it incredibly hard to motivate myself for the day when I'm already feeling defeated. Don't really have any advice though sorry, still trying to work this stuff out myself.
Regards,
Aphotic.
Hey Chart,
No worries, I get that. I don't want it to seem like I was trying to take away from the emotional/trauma side of things. Just that sometimes they can go hand in hand and creates a sort of negative feedback loop. I think doing all this physical stuff as well over the last 10 years has helped a lot and I do notice a change in the way I wake up in the morning, but that's just my experience.
For example, constant conditions of high stress (ie trauma and ACEs) elevate cortisol and alter the conditions of the digestive tract. However, once that occurs, there is more stress on the body through this inflammation ie gut dysbiosis creates inflammation which can then create intestinal permeability, which can then lead to autoimmune reactions (ie Hashimoto's Thyroiditis), which then creates further systemic inflammation, impacting cortisol levels even further, but essentially the gut-brain access is a two way street.
This is kind of a summary if you're interested. https://clasado.com/can-gut-bacteria-influence-stress-levels/
I think those culprits are good (alcohol, sugar), but I would also add gluten and dairy. Gluten was a huge one for me and I didn't even know I an issue with it until I did a 30 day elimination diet and then reacted very strongly (joint pain) when I added it back in. I noticed that afterwards when I would accidentally get "glutened," it would wholly change my mood for the entire day (very dark and negative), and as well has create anxiety (real lack of mental focus), and alter my sleep. This came from tracking what I was eating and my internal state for a long time, recognizing when I felt "better" and then when things were off and why they might be off ie is this emotional, or something else? It's not a foolproof system, but can gauge when I think something I've eaten or taken has mayne affected me. Sometimes I have no idea why I'm feeling a certain way, and then I'll be like oh yeah, I ate that dessert and I wonder if there was something in it. This frees me up I think to better handle the emotional stuff when it does come up.
Driving 600km does sound exhausting. I hope you were able to find some space with your night time triggers as well.
Sending you support,
dolly
Shankara,
I read and saw online some studies about sugar and anxiety and about bloud sugar and anxiety. Basically when I have times don´t eat sugar at all, and then eat like a whole Ben & Jerries in the evening, I see the difference the next morning and my anxiety is much stronger. Also there are studies and good input from "the Glucose Goddess", about lowering the blood sugar curve, and what positive effects it has on your health and anxiety. Here too, I see it the next morning, if I did apply it or not.
My morning anxiety does not going away, but it is definately supportive to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdTYFUnZDsU
Maybe thhis helps someone.