I would really like to have somewhere I feel safe. Somewhere that is totally, 100% mine. The problem is that I am married.
I have been gradually working towards that and it mostly works OK. However, there are practical issues which mean that we have to share all our space to some extent. (Tofu - if you should happen to come across this post I honestly do not know how you cope with sharing a room with your sociopaths.) We are very lucky to have a large house so, for instance, we can mostly each use our own bathroom. Except the one he uses does not have a walk-in shower. He has bad knees so on days we do not go to the gym he will use "my" shower. That is accessed through my bedroom, so the bedroom is not any kind of sanctuary, though he is very respectful about when he uses the shower. I do realise that we could change our living arrangements, or re-do his bathroom or whatever but all these things feel like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
My study is one place where he has no reason to come, most of the time. I have removed from it anything he used to use, but the one thing I cannot move easily (without making drama) is the printer. He does not often need to use the printer and when he does I am generally in that room and can take the printing to him or hand it to him as he hovers in the doorway. The room is tiny and he is vast, so I don't really like him coming in here as he is lumbering and clumsy. But that's not really even it. I just don't like him coming in here.
Today my exercise coach was here and when we had finished I went upstairs. I knew he had a printing job for work. He had (helpfully in his eyes) decided to do it while I was otherwise engaged so the printer would not be noisily spewing out pages while I was in here doing something else. So I came upstairs to find him in my study. Sitting in my chair (which is too small for him and his weight means that he regularly busts office chairs so that was added annoyance). I am in the middle of making a birthday card for my friend, so the card was out, and he was admiring it. He said it was nice and a good idea. All well and good but I don't like people looking at my art until I am ready for them to see it. And he was using my pencil sharpener.
All of the above sounds totally petty, I know. Which makes everything 100 times worse, because I just got into the worst EF I have had for a long time and I just went into my bathroom and ugly cried for about 15 minutes.
I've spoken about this sort of thing with my T before. How I feel selfish for wanting to have my own stuff/area that nobody touches or enters. Ever, unless they specifically ask. I mean, him using my pencil sharpener is so mild and yet I actually found myself wanting to throw it away. I found myself wanting to clean my chair. Dear God. This is my husband. He is a safe person. He loves me. This is our house.
This sort of thing has happened before over the years. At least now I know where it is coming from. Nothing was mine as a child, not even my emotions. My mother seeped into everything. I could not argue, because it would always be met with an entitled "I am your mother". So I know that finding a large, loud person helping themselves to my stuff in an area mostly designated as mine put me right back into childhood, with all the terror and impotent rage that entailed. Living in boarding school felt more private and that was hardly what most people would think of as privacy.
And now I don't know what to do. Will I ever learn to ride the EFs without wanting to do something drastic? Do I re-site the printer somehow and make a big thing out of it? That doesn't feel proportionate or sensible and does not mean I will necessarily feel safer. Yes, I could put a lock on my study door, but that does not feel proportionate or safer either.
I don't want to forbid my husband from areas of our house. I would not like it if he forbade me. I rarely go into "his" areas but sometimes I need to in order to vacuum or put laundry away or whatever. Living in our own little trenches seems stupid and is not something I want to enforce. If I did that I may as well divorce and live alone.
How do I feel safe when I am safe?
(Of course I will take this to my T but she is away at the moment and in any case I am supposing that someone here may have experience or insight to share.)
I have nothing. I just wanted to let you know that I got in the exact same arguement on the 27th. I discussed alternative living arrangements and everything.
Even when I am not shut into a room, around my husband I feel like I am shut into a room. I'm a mime.
It's very real. I don't know. I know no one else who lives like this. I have no solution or advice, and can only sit with you on this.
:hug:
:bighug:
Ah girl. I could write this too. I'm tempted to not give advice but I'm also tempted to give it.
First though...I've felt this way too. No place is safe or mine. The closest I come is keeping everything in now 3 backpacks and hiding them under the bed. And I change who I am depending on who is around. Most tasks I want to do I can only do when no one is here. It is not enough to go to another room to do them because I can't be that part of me that does these things if people are around. Which leaves me trying to squeeze everything in while the kids are in school. Add in 2 days where one or the other kid has a short day, and H working from home 1 or 2 days a week and it isn't enough. Even though I feel so silly because I have more free time than anyone I know but still it's not enough...because we can't be ourselves when people are around, because of the things that happened when we were kids.
You deserve to be married and you deserve to feel safe. And these feelings aren't about your husband at all. I've had times where I have been terrified of my perfectly safe loving husband. I complained to T how could I be scared of him he's the safest person on earth. And T has to keep reexplaining to me: I am not scared of my husband. This is from the past. You are not really disgusted by your husband using your things but it is a threat to your Self that your private space is not private because of how your mom destroyed everything you enjoyed.
You deserve to feel safe. Printers these days are small. Put one in a common area. Keep yours. Explain to your husband as hard as it is that to feel safe and happy you need to have a space that is 100% private. That will help you stay happily married. It's such a small thing to need in the grand scheme of marriage.
I fully 1 million percent support you in taking a step to get a printer he can use somewhere else and having your study be off limits. Not because you don't love your husband but because you have trauma and you need a space to feel completely safe. It isn't about him it's about you. And I dont actually quite believe that you would be upset with him having his own private space if you knew he needed it to feel safe. Hopefully he does not take it personally that this is something you need to be able to drop your shoulders, relax, and feel safe enough to be creative :grouphug:
NarcKiddo have you ever told him about how you feel and why this is so? I honestly think if I were to explain an issue like this to my H, the why of it (i.e., it wasn't him and our marriage wasn't falling apart but my past overwhelming me), he would totally respect the need.
It would confirm for your H it's not that you don't love him, only that parts your past are still so very overwhelming (and understandably so). My NM was similar in that she was enmeshed with me and took things and people from me. She wanted to be best friends with my friends, just wedging her way into my space at every opportunity. It's one of the reasons I went very low contact.
I imagine that ugly crying was from a very deep place and perhaps if you ask for your H to be an ally, you may feel safer in this world and bonus, that you have an H who cares enough to respect your space. In turn he gets a W who trusts him enough for her to be honest. Win-win-win.
And oh yes, maybe get another printer? :)
Just my thoughts :hug:
NarcKiddo, I have no advice but I wanted to let you know that I also struggle with this. I have often felt that I am selfish or bad or unloving because I HATE it when my husband uses anything of mine or even so much as opens the door to my bedroom without permission, while he is so open and generous and has a "what's mine is yours" kind of attitude. It's a real thing! And so confusing. I have no answer, but I offer my sympathy and understanding :hug:
Hi NarcKiddo,
It seems like a big realization that you understand now where these thoughts and feelings are coming from. I feel like you understand the solutions you mention might only be a temporary fix (putting a lock on the door, moving the printer etc), and my two cents is that I'm inclined to agree with you.
It might feel difficult, but I think you are doing the thing that you need to be doing IMO which is feeling those emotions to an extent coming up. Maybe another solution would be to work with the EFs as they come up and try to keep reminding yourself that you are not x years old anymore, that you are an adult and in charge of your space/boundaries. Maybe that might mean getting a new printer etc, or having your husband witness what is coming up for you as Kizzie suggested, and he might affirm that he respects your boundaries and need for space. I think you have every right to honour that part of you that never got to experience those things as a child and that the EF is not petty, but valid.
All the best,
dolly
Thank you, everyone. :grouphug:
I had quite a productive chat with my husband yesterday, without actually telling him anything yet. We were out for dinner and he remarked on how I had seemed out of sorts all day. He said "I hope it is not anything I have done" and I sat there in silence, debating how to reply. Which made him say "OMG, it IS something I've done. What is it?" The silence is actually big progress for me, because my normal reaction would simply be to say it was nothing he had done and change the subject. And now I had forced myself to give him some sort of answer. So I said "Something you did put me in a very uncomfortable emotional place. But I am not at all sure what you did is the problem, and it was not wrong. It is my reaction that is the problem. I don't know what to do with it yet. If we discuss it now I might put you on the back foot and make you feel defensive about something that is not your fault." He said "Fine, I'll wait until you are ready to talk about it, if you ever do want to talk about it, but if you want me to change my behaviour in any way then you will need to tell me." Which was fine and I said I would talk to him if/when I need to but it may be a while because I probably want to take the issue to my T first and she is away until next week. And then we had a bit of a joke and I calmed down and we had a nice evening.
This morning I find myself tending very much towards dollyvee's view of the situation. I feel like the obvious solutions to the particular situation are treating the symptoms and not the cause. Of course there is merit in alleviating symptoms and my husband would leap onto those solutions, because he is a "fixer" type. So he would be all happy for a while and then some other unsafe situation will arise that we need to fix and it will just go on and on.
I do need to trust my husband (and in many ways I do), but I need to trust myself first. I don't think little NK is convinced that big NK can keep us safe. We have made progress but there is a long way to go.
Hi NK,
Congrats on your big step :cheer: and that progress you made. Being seen by someone is a very difficult thing for me, but also one of the most rewarding (or so I've been told). I find it so difficult to come out of hiding when there's been so much negativity about who I am in the past, especially when I sense something remotely similar in the present, and of course those situations exist too. I often find I am reluctant to trust people, but am trying to reframe that as having a trust in myself to make decisions based on the information I am receiving. I don't need to override what's coming in for someone else's benefit (well trying not to) and boundaries are good, even if other people don't feel that way. That's not my responsibility any more.
Sending you supporrt,
dolly
Narckiddo,
My wife and I do a lot to stay out of each other's way. We love each other very much, and we are happy together, but we both feel like we need privacy. We now sleep in separate bedrooms, so she can have her bedroom hot and I can have mine cold, and my CPAP doesn't keep her up all night anymore. I have my own office. I don't share my computer with her. She doesn't share hers with me. We don't/can't share a bathroom or a bedroom or a closet.
I used to bring fears that we weren't loving each other enough to my T. I used to say "I feel bad that we leave each other so often." He replied, "You aren't leaving each other, you're giving each other space."
My wife knows that I grew up in a tornado. A family that not only never gave me my own space, but when I finally did get my own room, my mom would search it when I was at school, throwing away things I was saving, and reading my journals or diaries. For me, sharing space with another person is just not something I can do without making rules. We don't share bathrooms, bedrooms, computers, phones, or even cars. She has her own Jeep and I have mine.
So, to your concerns that it seems petty, NO! IT's NOT petty! Our privacy was trampled when we needed it, and now we react by needing more of it today. It's respectful for us to not share everything. My parents shared everything and all they did was fight and scream at each other toward the end. Whenever Coco and I start to feel smothered by the other, we give each other space, and therefore, we never, ever raise a voice at each other. It's working for us, and my T says it's healthy. In fact, he says that sharing everything can actually be less healthy than giving each other some privacy.
Thank you, all.
Papa C - we started sleeping in separate bedrooms a few years ago and I think it saved our marriage. We were going through a bad patch anyway and the lack of sleep from my H snoring all night was exacerbating everything as far as I was concerned. We have gradually got to the point of giving each other more space generally (we used to share an office) and both of us would completely agree with you that it is very important to both of us. I am sure my husband will be understanding as and when I feel able to explain more of what I am going through. That is taking me a long time but I will get there.
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I had a productive session with my T today. She was pleased to hear that I still tend to the view that new printers, door locks, requests for more privacy etc might be helpful in the short term, and could certainly be implemented at any time I feel the need, but that they are not a long-term solution. Until I feel safe within myself, and trust myself to keep me safe, this sort of thing will keep occurring from time to time. I hope less frequently and with less intensity as I feel more confidence. We discussed ways in which I could discuss it with my H more while still feeling safe and not provoking him into a lot of "helpful" actions that don't actually help little NK, because only I can do that.
This latest horrid EF has made me think through a lot of things (again) and some good has already come of that. My husband moved some stuff in the garden the other day. I normally react badly to anything being moved without warning, even in an area which is totally not my domain (such as the garden, where I do not lift a finger as I hate gardening). But I noticed the change and instead of my hackles rising I actually liked what he had done and felt quite comfortable liking it.
I just wanted to come back to this thread to report the outcome of discussion with my T.
Quote"You aren't leaving each other, you're giving each other space."
:yeahthat:
I hate gardening too and am quite happy to make suggestions but leave the work to my H. We're both happy with that :bigwink:
NK I just read through the whole post. Firstly a warm hug and also a :cheer: for the communication with your H. He seems like a lovely person.
What you wrote wasn't petty at all. I feel defensive too if someone asks me to share things that belongs to "me". For me they are usually pretty stationery items, things that I never owned as a kid I think. So if my H lets our niece use my colour pencils, or my stickers or origami papers, I feel like crying. I feel like the kid whose parents would scream "sharing is caring".
I hope short term changes makes it easier to deal with EFs and that in long term you can work on the symptoms. :hug:
I've found it useful to have the short term solutions implemented as a safety net, then if we start to feel an EF we can utilize the tools. The door lock for example has been really nice for me to just know I have, I rarely use it, but when I am feeling overwhelmed I am reminded I could close and lock my door and be undeniably safe. I physically feel myself relax when I do it.
Quote from: NarcKiddo on January 02, 2024, 12:37:57 PMHow I feel selfish for wanting to have my own stuff/area that nobody touches or enters. Ever, unless they specifically ask.
Maybe giving the inner child the 'petty' things they demand will help them see that they no longer have to worry about them being taken away, that they are safe now to ask for what they need.
Sometimes short term solutions can help us feel safe enough to be able to look at the bigger picture, which like you said is to feel safe in yourself.
NK,
I feel for you, having to share your personal space with others. I understand how distressing that can be for someone in your position.
It is seemingly a very selfish demand and may send mixed signals to your loved ones, but I have found it absolutely necessary. That 'avoidance' tendency; needing a place I can be where I am completely alone is probably *very* common for people like us. In fact... My 15 year relationship with my GF (who also suffers from cPTSD) seems odd to most people because 1) we will never marry and 2) we will never cohabitate. We both *need* our personal space!
When I was married and cohabitating, I had come to grips with the fact that there was nowhere in the house I could go to 'escape', so I would often just go. Take a hike somewhere I was unlikely to encounter anyone for a while.
Only thing I would like to recommend: I hope that your husband understands 100% exactly *why* you need your personal space and how important it is to you. I also hope he understands that it has nothing to do with him at all and that you love him.
Best,
-Slashy