I didn't see an actual IFS thread posted in this forum, so I thought I'd start one. There are a lot of IFS postings and responses being written all throughout the forum. Perhaps collecting our thoughts in an IFS location will help anyone who's interested in IFS by making it easy to find any IFS talk all in one place.
Internal Family Systems (IFS) is a therapy style that is proving to be helpful for a lot of people who struggle with our past traumas which are causing stress in today's life.
In his book, Self-Therapy, Jay Earley Phd. says there is benefit to going through IFS therapy with others as a group. So I thought I'd try starting a group to see if anyone is interested in sharing, learning, teaching, collaborating anything IFS related.
I won't start posting until I know if anyone is interested in sharing in the IFS journey with me through this, or some other thread.
Well, I'm going to jump in here because I HAVE QUESTIONS!! ha :)
I have only read the first chapter of Self-Therapy and it didn't seem like I could make it work.
And I'm assuming it's just terminology... or different ways to work towards the same purpose.
This is not a criticism of IFS, more of one of my mind not being able to wrap itself around it.
Tell me to read more if I'm giving up too soon please!!!!!
To me, my parts are me at certain ages and the book doesn't seem to look at it that way; I'm not sure I can look at them differently.
Example,
Going to sleep is excruciating. That moment before sleep comes, when my mind goes from conscious to unconscious is scary as heck and it has always been.
It's like a brief moment where I can feel the terror in my body, coupled sometimes with images. So I start to drift off, get scared back awake and it repeats..
I learned very young (maybe 5-6) to play word games/math games in my head until I fall asleep to avoid all of that. I still play the same games (though more complicated).
My understanding so far, is that IFS would call that a protector part, keeping me from being terrified and feeling whatever horrors might be waiting, so that I can sleep.
But, to me that's my young boy self, Pablo who learned that behaviour to fall asleep at night. He has many facets to him. He endured much and learned some tricks, healthy and unhealthy to get through. I feel like it's up to me now as I learn more of him (and other IC), to slowly chip away at the unhealthy habits. I can congratulate him and thank him for ALL the habits... but there are some that aren't helpful now. My sleeping tricks for example I call a healthy habit still. (maybe i wont need it one day but it's not harming me and it works so I take it and commend and love Pablo for being so clever so young)
Is it just semantics? Does Pablo have protector and exile parts? Maybe as I grow in my relationship with him, I will learn more.
But if so, there must be so many parts, it seems too overwhelming. I already feel maxed out with 3 of them :).. but i love them.. but multitudes of parts each?
Not sure I'm ready for that road (though I remain open to it one day- just not today). Or are they more like traits of our parts? Is it just wording?
My part that wants to eat when I feel particularly unloved, is part of Francis's personality.
He's got all sorts of bad habits.. but he's fierce and he's brave and I'd never have made it without him. So I love him and know that I have to reduce those days as much as possible. Warriors need their strength. I'm middle-aged, working at a desk. The strength I need isn't going to come from another bag of potato chips.... but he needed strength so I love him for it. But when I am eating like a mad teenager, I'm mad here in the present too. I can't (yet??) deal with the food part of it without taking on all of him it seems.
Anyway, I'd love to keep reading the book, but I'm having trouble with it.
Sorry for rambling.. this is such an awesome topic and I really would love to learn more.. I am just not sure this book is for me. Or maybe I'm just being terribly closed-minded because it doesn't fit with my understanding. (not a great trait, but I can work on that) :)
Forgive my ignorance please, I am assuming it just isn't clicking because of my stubbornness, but I'd rather learn and keep going with it if I can :)
I've read some stuff about IFS and am intrigued by it. Some of it makes sense and resonates with me, and some of it confuses and baffles me, but I struggle to read and absorb that kind of material without guidance, so I haven't delved into it very far. Last year I attempted to find an IFS therapist I could afford, but could not, so I've stalled out on that a bit, but I'm definitely interested in discussion, especially if there's some kind of structure to it. Papa Coco, please tell me more about your ideas for a group.
Phil,
Great feedback. As I've only started learning IFS two weeks ago and am only in the 3rd chapter of the book, I'm not aware of how it works for everyone. I suspect that one of the main reasons I am responding well to it is because my long-time therapist is a DBT therapist who has, for years, had me talking with my protectors. He didn't call it IFS but he has introduced me to my protectors many times. After a while I got good at talking with them. So perhaps IFS is working for me because I was primed with a good DBT who sort of greased the skids for me.
I don't name my protectors with human names. I choose to call them what they are: "Mr. Judgmental", "Mr. Fawn", "Mr. Panic". It's just easier for me to keep them all straight and to assign only one habit to each. For years, my DBT has only connected me with "my protector" which meant that all my quirks were handled by that one guy. IFS is encouraging me to take it apart to the next granularity, and I'm actually enjoying the simplicity of being able to talk with Mr. Fawn about Fawning and nothing else. I can have more pointed and strategic conversations when I'm speaking with only one protector about only one habit. It declutters the issue I'm dealing with on any given day. A more targeted focus.
I really believe we can talk directly WITH our protectors, but we must speak like kind adults to our young and frightened Exiles. The Exiles are the children from various ages who have become afraid. I am often able to know what age they are just by picturing them. I don't have to ask. My Exiles are terrified children. I'm the adult and I need to speak to terrified children by saying "I've got you. I've got you. I've got you." When my sons were babies, I was able to hold them tightly, rock them back and forth and help them stop crying. So that's what I do with my Exiles today. They are scared children, and as such, they need nurturing to help them stop feeling the fear that keeps triggering Protectors to come help.
I don't see your method of falling asleep at night as something you need to fix. I think your method of falling asleep IS your fix and if I were you, I'd keep doing it. No need to stop a protector who's helping. When you talked about your snacking you helped me to see something in myself. I love the fall and winter because I love the darkness. Nightfall is at 5:30 PM now here in my community, and that's when the TV comes on, along with the pajamas and the snacks. I'm 62 and I STILL feel safe at night with snacks and TV. Last night I kept myself awake until 12:30 AM because I just didn't want the safe, quiet night to end. Here's the deal for me: When I was a boy, life was dangerous. School was dangerous. Church was dangerous. The only time I ever felt safe was in the evenings when TV and snacks were happening. As I got older, I was allowed to stay up later and later, so I did. And I learned to feel safe at night with the TV and snacks. So today, 60 years later, I STILL spend my entire evening, every night of the week, sitting in pajamas, eating junk food in front of the TV. And I don't ever want to go to bed because when I was a child, falling asleep meant that my next conscious moment would be time to wake up and go back into the dangerous world again. So today, I compulsively try to not fall asleep because as soon as I do, my night of peace and safety ends and morning will bring judgment and punishments and lies and being ghosted and ignored and beaten up....
That panic that you feel as you try to fall asleep at night might be a protector wanting to make sure you keep aware of all your dangers. I get frustrated by my protectors who make me upset so I won't forget. But in my world, my protectors fear that if I let my guard down, I'll be victimized again. For me, I can't forget every mean or stupid thing I've ever said or done. I swim in regret all day and all night. I was a big brother, and as such, when we were kids, I sometimes bullied my beautiful little sister. Today, especially since she's passed away, I can't stop feeling like punishing myself day and night for every dumb little mean thing I said as her older brother. That's a protector who is trying to make sure I NEVER forget how bad it feels to be mean to someone, so that I'll never do it again. So...now...how I talk to that protector is something I still need to learn. I routinely thank him for teaching me to never say mean things again, but I'm not sure if there's more I could say to him to help let him off the hook of having to make me regret my past all day long. I have the rest of my life to learn it so I'm not putting a deadline on it. I'm letting myself learn over time how to speak to my Protectors.
Case Study:
When my friend ghosted me a few weeks ago I went into serious panic. My friend had his own traumatic issues to deal with. We talked almost daily on gmail for about a year. His life got complicated and he started going days between gmails. Then weeks. Finally, this last pause went on for 5 weeks. At first, I checked for his gmails several times a day. Then I cut it back to once per day. Then, as weeks went on and on with no responses from him, I began to forget to check for his Gmails. One day, a couple weeks ago, I checked the Gmail account and there was a VERY LONG letter from him, telling me all about the insanity of his life. I was so excited, I immediately responded with a short letter telling him I'd write a longer one in a day or two. I sent it. I got it back as undelieverable. I looked at the date of his letter and noticed I had let it sit in my inbox for 12 days before responding. My assumption is this: His emotional struggles are more severe than mine. The fact that I didn't respond to his email quickly enough kicked in one of his Exiles who was used to be ignored as a child. That Exile triggered a Protector to come in and rescue him by making sure he ghost me before I can ghost him. I have no way of knowing if he'll ever contact me again. But let me just tell you that by him ghosting me because I didn't respond quickly enough to him triggered my Mr. Fawn to rise up and put my body into a panic. How I knew it was a panic was my chest, heart, throat all felt like they were on fire and were about to burst into flames. That was my protector, Mr. Fawn, kicking me and trying to get me to find this friend somehow, use every old email address he's ever had, find him in a phone book or Linked In or something and FAWN OVER HIM until he likes me again.
Once I found and identified the physical location of this protector, (he was in my head, chest and throat), and once I'd identified how he felt, (like my organs were about to burst into flames), I was able to ask the protector what he was doing to me and why. He said, "When people ghost you, it hurts so bad, that I'm just trying to get you to become unghosted. Fawning has always worked, so we should try it again."
I had to have a little talk with Mr. Fawn. I said "I'm reading IFS now. And I see that you are really trying to help me weather this ghosting storm. But I'm an adult now and I'm willing to stand up and be ghosted. I am going to accept the fact that this was not about me, this was about him. My not checking Gmail for a week and a half shouldn't have been cause for ghosting, and I NEVER would have gone that long if I hadn't simply lost track of time. Logically, I know this is a tragedy that I did not do on purpose. It was an accident. Ghosting me is on him. I'll keep that Gmail account active for the rest of my life. He knows how to get ahold of me."
SO! Result:
I feel much better about his ghosting me than I ever would have if I weren't in the IFS book when it happened. I still feel the pain. I still feel Mr. Fawn tapping me on the shoulder from time to time, but the words I'd told him, about how I'm the adult now and I'm willing to stand behind what has happened and that I'm prepared to deal with this tragedy as an adult, seem to have calmed down Mr. Fawn. As far as my Exile goes, I didn't ask him his name. He was the same boy who'd been left for dead many times: ignored by my parents, beaten up by my school peers, laid off from my job of 42 years, ghosted, ignored, left out, exiled, left behind... All this little Exile needed was for me to spend a few minutes picturing his little head being held tightly in my chest as I rocked him and softly spoke to him, "I've got you, buddy. I'm the adult. I can handle this situation. I'm not in any danger. You're not in any danger. I've got you, little man. I've got you."
I'm not suggesting that you keep reading. I'm not a qualified therapist or anything, I'm just one beggar telling other beggars where I found food. What I'm learning now is that what works for me works for me and I need to be aware that not all cures work for all C-PTSD cases.
I am glad you were willing to give IFS a look to see if it might work for you. But if it doesn't help, then you need to do what does work for you. Even though I'm learning to quickly find my Protectors and speak with them, I still don't know if I'm doing myself any good. Will this change me? Maybe, maybe not. I'm on a journey just like you are, and time will tell if I'm doing myself any good or if I'm just falling for the next quick fix cure in a long line of them.
HI Bach,
I'm glad to see you are looking into IFS. I think it's a lot simpler than we think it should be. Having watched the Pixar movie Inside Out has given me a clean perspective on how IFS works.
For me it started with my Therapist who would have me talk to my older and younger self whenever I was in peril. He'd helped me to see that my younger self still felt the fear of being exiled as I had been as a child. He also helped me to ask the pain in my chest what it might want to say to me if it had a voice. So, I learned a long time ago, that all my reactions to trauma are meant as protection and I learned to thank my inner self for protecting me. In my therapist's office I was able to see that my quirks were gifts of love. I had a little bouncer living in my head who pushed bad people away and kept me safe. The problem was that the people I need saving from aren't always bad, but my protector didn't know the difference between today's enemies and yesteryear's enemies.
I just noticed that in the forum, IFS stuff was bubbling up out of context in all sorts of people's posts and responses. I started to worry that people were going to get sick of hearing IFS like it's a fad that they don't want to talk about. So I thought, maybe I could create a safe place for those of us who want to talk IFS can do so with people who also want to talk about it.
So my vision for this thread is: According to Mr. Easley, author of Self Therapy, working IFS in a group works better than doing it alone in a vacuum. Even if we can't find an IFS therapist to join the group, the group interaction is said to be good for us. As a member of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) I am very familiar with peer supported chat sessions. They work very well, even without a therapist in the room.
This is just a place where anyone who wants to talk IFS can ask questions, or give epiphanies from their own experiences, or just express what they are doing with IFS today.
I didn't know if starting this thread would be dangerous, or would get me kicked out of the forum, but that's my Exile talking. As a younger man and a child, I was routinely punished for stepping out and trying new things. I've been blamed for hurting people by sharing information. So I had to deal with that feeling of fear in order to start this thread.
I decided to use IFS practices to tell my little Exile, "I'm an adult now and I'm willing to risk putting myself out there. I don't see how anyone can get hurt by me starting a new thread. If it goes badly and I get kicked out of the forum, then I'm prepared to deal with that too." So, my Exile calmed down and did NOT trigger Mr. Delete Key to quickly panic and force me to go onto the forum and delete my thread. IFS is helping my CORE SELF gain control over today's stressors by having me acknowledge to my Protectors and Exiles that the past is past. Today I'm a strong man with friends and family I can trust.
IFS Is giving me courage. Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is the presence of fear and the willingness to move forward anyway. My Core Self knows courage. So he is listening to the Exiles and assessing whether the fear is needed or not. If it's needed, I let my protectors do their thing. But if my fears are homed in the past, and no longer valid, then I'm asking my protectors to trust that I have the danger handled.
Yay Papa Coco!
I'm so happy you decided to do this ;D I have taken a lot from yours and dollyvees posts about IFS, started doing my own research and have started reading Self-Therapy. It has helped me make sense of my own recent situation and look at these parts with more compassion. Their intent is good, but their responses are over exaggerated. It will be amazing to have a space dedicated to IFS where we can discuss and work together as we learn.
Phil, I would say keep going, but only if it feels comfortable. I haven't read much of the book myself yet but have done other research into IFS. I'm still wrapping my head around it. Papa Coco speaks so clearly about is own experiences and IFS exercises that it is helping me unpack it a bit more, I think hearing about others experiences helps me make sense out of my own. Sometimes others have the words to explain what I can't.
Even if your experience with it doesn't match what the book says perfectly, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't apply and you can't reap the benefits. My understanding so far is that communication is the key to healing these parts. And these parts are often our younger selves, so you mentioning Pablo being your young self does actually apply and fit. There are exercises in the next chapter that may help you make some more sense of it. Sounds to me like Pablo is exactly what you say, a Protector, and has developed a mechanism to help you cope and fall asleep. Not all of the mechanisms have to be bad or negative. Our parts will have adapted helpful and healthy mechanisms, but they have also adapted sometimes unhelpful and unhealthy mechanisms. We need to thank them for their service and teach them that these now unhelpful and unhealthy survival tactics are no longer required, and we can find new ways to cope. That the danger has passed.
Please anyone feel free to correct me if what I have said is incorrect but at this current stage that is my, very basic, understanding.
I'm excited this has started and we have a space to go on this journey together ;D
Hi PC,
Thanks for starting this thread. I can't believe there wasn't one on the forum before. I learned about IFS on OOTS from Hope, Snowdrop and Owl. Each one had their own different approaches. I think it's helpful to talk about and each person's inner world is a very unique thing. So, hopefully we can continue to gain understanding from others.
Phil, from reading your post, I would suggest to make sure you are in Self when approaching these parts. After watching IFS talks and Richard Schwartz sessions, there is a check in when dealing with these parts and you ask how am I feeling towards this part? Am I curious, compassionate (the seven c's) and if there's something else, say an intellectual part saying that's not right, this is how it should be, you ask that part to step back or come forward so you can meet it and thank it. IFS is experiential, so it's a constant check in with what you're actually experiencing and a reaffirmation that you are in Self when experiencing these other parts. I think it's a way to experience Pablo, as MOMS puts it, as a protector, and perhaps he is protecting another exile.
My candid thoughts about who is My Core Self:
IFS has 13 attributes that describe how the Core Self lives its life. They call these the 8 Cs and 5 Ps of IFS:
The 8 Cs are:
1. Compassion
2. Creativity
3. Connected
4. Confidence
5. Calm
6. Curiosity
7. Courage
8. Clarity
The 5 Ps are:
9. Presence
10. Perspective
11. Patience
12. Playfulness
13. Persistence
I believe my Core Self already exists: My job in IFS is not to create or become this Core Self but to quiet my mind to the point where I can find and embody my already existing Core Self. This is not a list of things I need to become if I want to access my Core Self. This list is a description of someone who already exists. In IFS, the Core Self already exists within each of us and already lives the 8 Cs and 5 Ps.
How I access my Core Self:
I don't presume to know how each of us accesses our Core Self. I only know how I do it in the privacy of my own brain. I first found my Core Self a few years ago through Mindfulness Meditations. I believe the IFS Core Self is the same person meditators call their Zen, or their Enlightened Self. When my job's stress would be nearly killing me, I'd turn off my phone and would google "Mindfulness Meditations" and pick one that's 10 minutes long. I'd turn up the volume and stare into the screen while the meditation led me to focus only on my physical moment: How does the chair feel where I'm in contact with it? Am I breathing deeply or shallowly? Do I have any aches or pains? Is the room warm enough/cool enough? How does my shirt feel against my back and stomach? What can I smell or hear beyond the meditation music? How does the carpet feel under my feet?
During those Mindfulness Meditations, all my stress melted away because that's just the power of the present moment. Unless you're in a train that's crashing right now, there usually is no stress within this very second. Usually, all our stress comes from regretting the past or fearing the future. My Core Self doesn't live in past or future, he lives only in the present moment. My parts all hate the past and fear the future. But my Core Self just "is" right now. This loss of all stress by focusing only on the moment and the room I'm in seems to be how I came to realize I was in the physical room and physical moment, but I was not of the physical room or physical moment.
For a few seconds after disconnecting my Core Self from my Parts and my stress, I felt like I was a peaceful, safe, relaxed visitor to your crazy planet.
After 10 minutes of Mindfulness Meditation, I'm totally relaxed. And for as many seconds as I can hold myself to the present moment only, those are the seconds that I'm in touch with my Core Self. Calm. Loving. Forgiving. At Peace. Exactly the same core self I was as a child.
I don't need the Mindfulness Meditations anymore. I can access my Core Self by just focusing on him. Now that he and I have met, and have spent a lot of time together over the years, it's easier to find him when I need him. That's good news. The more time we spend with our Core Selves, the easier they become to find and spend time with.
When I'm with my Core Self today I'm ageless. I feel exactly as I did when I was laying around staring at the ceiling as a child. My body has changed, my IFS Parts have become stronger, more distracting. But My Core Self is stable. Always the same. No judgement. No fear.
My Core Self is just a parent trying to enjoy a fun road trip through life in a car full of noisy parts all screaming for my attention.
I see my Core Self as the most spiritual, and least physical, point of my existence as a living human person. This is the place where I am in the world but not of the world. If it is true that I am connected to all earthly life and/or to an eternal God or The Universe, my Core Self is where that connection happens. And when we can begin to sense that we are in the world but not of the world, we can begin to see that we have our parts but we are not our parts. They are part of us, but deep down at the core, our true identity is described by the 8 Cs and 5 Ps of IFS.
I don't know if Schultz teaches the Core Self to be what I see mine as, but for me...This is, currently, how I see the core self and its parts within myself.
Thanks Papa for sharing how you access your Core Self. It is very helpful.
I do that exercise as well.. though it is not peaceful in the least.
It took some time and effort, but I can relax my body and notice how it feels against my clothes, how the air feels between my toes even... none of those things I could do before.
But what happens next isn't a meet up with my Core Self.. it's a violent, shaking, image-filled episode with one of my parts.
It's what happens when I don't play mind games to fall asleep.. I'm essentially letting the shaking take over. It's letting my body tell me stuff, and to this point nothing it's said has been calming. It's worthwhile and probably my key to healing, but I have to prepare for this. It's definitely not peaceful.. I'd call it terrifying, but effective.
Now I could be doing it all wrong, no doubt. But I haven't met up with my core self this way. I may not have met my core self any way though so that could be the trouble :)
You mention accessing your core self even without doing this.. Armee had mentioned something like that to me before too. That it gets easier to keep one foot in the present while talking with your parts. I will push through with the book.... the idea of using that exercise and getting peace doesn't seem possible at this point, so that's a good enough reason to keep trying.
I'm very grateful for your descriptions, Papa...it's very helpful to hear what you're doing!
Hey Phil,
I'm glad you're chiming in and sharing your experiences. The manners we use to find our inner Core Self sounds like one of those things that will be unique to the individual. I hope I can hear some more stories from more forum members about how they find their Core Selves and how that Core Self feels when he/she is found. We are all a lot alike, but we are all still unique. There's a lot of overlap in how we each experience and manage CPTSD, but there is also a lot of uniqueness to us.
I always admire how perseverant you are, Phil. You deal with the shakes on a daily basis, and you keep going. My Therapist says this same thing about me. I've been in treatment for so long I've forgotten how difficult it used to be just to get through a day or a sleepless night, but he reminds me. My therapist hasn't forgotten how the shakes and the Icy Chest used to come over me. He has reminded me that the reason I'm getting better over the years is because I keep trying. I guess not everyone does that. A lot of people give up. I see in you what my therapist says about me, your perseverance and your openness to trying new things really is what will carry you through. I'm filled with hope for you that you can connect up with the right professional who can help with that panic that comes when you relax.
As a child I had a few certain places where I was allowed to relax. One was when I was allowed to stay up late on Friday nights and watch TV with snacks. So today, a lifetime later, that's where I relax now. I'm addicted enough to TV that even if I were out having the time of my life and came home at 1 am to go to bed, I would need at least 1/2 hour of TV to relax me enough to fall asleep. For me, it's about recreating the scene for me to relax today as I did as a kid. TV relaxed my family, and when THEY relaxed, I relaxed.
Well, Papa...
I had never considered that I might be dealing with 2 things here. I'm very grateful for you pointing this out.
I surely have trouble relaxing (I know it's a HUGE trigger for me).. and maybe that panic is a part I have to face first, if I want to have success with any meditation/mindfulness exercises.
Sure beats being terrified to try :)
As for perseverance, I have accepted that I have little choice. Martyrdom is extremely overrated.
Thank you again Papa :hug:
I can't access my Core Self very well. I'm not even entirely sure what it is, although I think that I have an impression that it is more of a body thing than a mind thing. I've been trying to learn how to quiet my mind and tune in to my body but I find it very difficult and sometimes it rebounds to a panicky feeling. Vagus nerve stimulation exercises help a bit, as do various forms of self-touch such as havening and butterfly hugs. I have a very long way to go with all of this.
Thank you for sharing that Papa Coco, it's helpful to see others experiences.
I'm like Phil, I have yet to access my Core Self. I am yet to find a space (both emotionally and physically) that feels safe and comfortable enough to even try. Every time I try to just sit and be, I either end up disassociating or being flooded with FBs and all manner of reactions. Or my alarm bells are constantly ringing. When I try and sit quietly, try to relax myself, I end up tuning into every little sound and movement. I am not at a place where I can turn my hypervigilance off or even down.
It helps to see that with some perseverance, practice and patience that it can be achieved. Also, the acknowledgement that we are all different and accessing our Core Selves is going to be unique to each of us. I think this is really important. It's easy, especially in an open conversation, to start judging and comparing our own progress to others. Our Core Selves are unique so our personal journeys will reflect that.
I haven't been able to do much reading due to a flare up of an eye condition but that is healing now and I'm looking forward to getting back into the book and learning some more to help me navigate it all.
Quote from: Papa Coco on October 29, 2022, 11:57:20 PM
I see my Core Self as the most spiritual, and least physical, point of my existence as a living human person.
This part of your post really caught my attention as when I was last reading Self-Therapy, I was writing notes and one of them was,
'IFS reminds me of Buddhism. Very spiritual, that connection with Self, an openness and acceptance. Non-judgmental, healing.' Everything about IFS feels so similar in many respects. It comes across in the book as quite a spiritual concept and some people's descriptions, much like yours, feel like incredibly spiritual moments. Everything about it seems ultimately, so calming and peaceful and who doesn't want to feel that
I'm really enjoying this conversation...
I did a lot of reading yesterday on Relaxation-Induced Anxiety (RIA)... pretty interesting stuff.
There are a ton of causes, with trauma being at the forefront by the looks of it.
Never knowing safety is the one that hit me... but so many reasons for it that all make so much sense.
There are suggestions to help as well... I've been trying to find the one article I really liked but I can't now.. when I do, I'll add a link here.
(as an aside and not meant to hijack thread - it hit me last night that it causes my wife hurt and anxiety. When I come home from a work day and can't stop.. ie, to pick up glasses or wipe a counter, she takes it personally.. like I'm criticizing her for not having it done...that absolutely couldn't be further from the truth - alas, there is so much learning and growing to do)
This is great conversation about Core Self. My original post was just my own personal experience of accessing my CS, and frankly, I'm not yet 100% sure its the same Core Self as Shultz had intended when he created IFS therapy.
Master of my Sea, To your quote; ( 'IFS reminds me of Buddhism. Very spiritual, that connection with Self, an openness and acceptance. Non-judgmental, healing.') I admit that I'm a very spiritual person, but I'm not even remotely religious. I believe we are all connected in some invisible way as one human race. In fact, I would add that our pets are connected with us also. I believe that the Core Self which I have been describing is the place in my own personal life where, IF there's a God, This version of my Core Self is where I connect with that God. Or Force. Or The Universe. Or whatever it is that connects us all together. The reason I suspect this might be my IFS Core Self is because the 8 Cs and 5 Ps of IFS Core Self define it perfectly. It's creative, forgiving, at peace, etc. etc. etc.
Bach, IT took me some time and a lot of practice to be able to access this version of myself. I began my very short visits with my Core Self with the help of my therapist. I could access my Core Self for less than a second at a time and I needed my therapist in the room helping to so I could even do that much. It was scary at first. It means I have to let down my guard. And for people who were abused by the people we loved and trusted the most, letting down our guard is pretty unnerving. For me, doing this in baby steps is the only way it can be done at all. A few microseconds of time with my Spiritually connected Core Self was a win. Even today, I really can't stay with that part of myself for more than a few short seconds. Mostly I like to make comments with him throughout the day. Sort of like those silly TV sitcoms, like Scrubs, where the star of the show breaks and talks to the camera every now and then. That's not the same as mediating WITH my higher self as much as it is acklnowledging that my higher "Core" self is there and that I believe he's there, even if I can't get too close for now.
Phil, I'm intrigued by the term Relaxation-Induced Anxiety. I have no doubt that it's 100% real. I'm going to do some research on that term. Relaxing doesn't attack me as ferociously as it attacks you, but relaxing is still not a comfortable, easy place for me to be in very often. It makes me feel vulnerable. It means I have to trust the moment that it won't turn bad on me. Even my own family was a bunch of liars and manipulators. If I relaxed, I was prey. Today I don't feel so connected to the fear of being vulnerable, but relaxing is nearly impossible for me without the help of chemicals, sleep aids, etc. For me, I usually felt safe in bed, but in my own past, nothing bad ever happened to me in my own bed. All my enemies were daytime enemies; priests, nuns, parents, schoolmates, etc. Getting OUT of bed each morning began my daily war with the world.
I'm glad a few of us are using this thread to discuss our own experiences as we learn IFS together. I'm reading the book very slowly as I'm also trying to force myself out into the yard to do some much needed yard work AND to get myself up and out of this funk of sitting around waiting to die. My employer let me go so now I'm like the characters in those Minion movies where I'm looking for a new leader to tell me what to do. I know that leader is my Core Self, but he and I are still just getting to know each other, and I haven't gotten good at relying on him for a sense of safety and purpose as I hope to one day do.
I'm a slow reader. I usually have a half dozen books I'm slowly going through at the same time. I'm still in Chapter three of the Self-Therapy book. Chapter three is a transcript of a conversation Dr. Easley had with one of his best patients as she went through IFS therapy for an Exile. I learned a bit more about IFS therapy.
Last night I spoke with an Exile who remembers being only barely 4 years old. At that time, my 4 siblings were all still living at home. (Seven people; two teen girls, one tween boy, one 4-y/o, and one infant in one small house made for a lot of busy, stressful noise and activity. I often describe it as having been born and reared in the winds of a tornado). We had a small house, and my dad had built a long, dark stairway down into the garage/basement and put a freezer at the bottom of the stairs. My older brother was 8 years older than me. Dinner was being made, Dad was on his way home from work, and I remember my brother was told to go down into the freezer and bring back a bag of frozen peas.
My brother was told to take me with him down the stairs. I was 4, and I suddenly realized I had to pee. And as a typical 4-year-old, it was already too late. I NEEDED to hit the bathroom NOW, but Mom refused to allow it. "NO! Go with your brother!" I tried several times to plead with her to let me use the bathroom first. I wasn't allowed to. I had to go down the stairs, and as my idiot brother opened the freezer, my bladder gave up trying to hold it. I peed my pants. At this time in my life I REALLY loved my dad. I was born with some deep, deep attachment to him. I BEGGED my brother and mom to not tell Dad when he gets home from work that I'd wet my pants. They promised they wouldn't tattle on me. But when Dad got home, my idiot brother, who was 12 at this point, ran to him and shouted, "Guess what Jimmy did! He peed his pants! HA HA!" That moment trapped itself in time in my brain, and for 58 years now I've felt that betrayal by my own lying family. Dad didn't care that I'd wet myself, but the betrayal of my own brother promising to protect my shame from my greatest hero, and then IMMEDIATELY blurting out what he'd promised not to say is what burned itself into my Exile's brain and stayed there indefinitely. How could I ever trust these people again? This was a soul-crushing moment that changed me profoundly as I grew up in that house.
So, last night, I decided to sit down with this little 4-year-old and do some IFS therapy with him, following the model I'd just read in chapter three of Self-Therapy. I held him tightly and reassured him that my brother was an idiot then and still is. And that what he did was betrayal, and that his betrayals of us are going to be worse in the future. This was just your introduction to what a loser he will always be. I wasn't trying to make my Exile hate my idiot brother (We already do), but I was trying to show the 4-year-old that this was not about him, but was about having a mentally weak brother whose betrayals were not only reserved for me, but for everyone he would ever come in contact with, ever. I wanted my 4-year-old to stop thinking this was my brother's disrespect for him, but was actually my brother's disrespect for everyone on earth. And my little Exile just happened to be one of his many, many, many victims. I was trying to disconnect my Exile from the abuse. It wasn't personal. We had just gotten too close to a liar and saw him in action. Lying. Again.
But this morning, after sleeping on this conversation with my smaller Exiled self I asked him what he wanted me to do for him. He told me. "I want to love my family but without the masks."
OKAY! I immediately knew what my little Exile was saying to me. I lived for 50 years desperately loving and catering to a family who I loved...but was it really them I loved? Or was it the masks they wore? The masks of "a perfect family." The mask of love, which was used to soften the blow of the abuse. They'd lie, cheat and steal from me, but they'd say it was because they loved me, but their love came with a lot of pain and abuse. So, I loved their kind masks. The people they were pretending to be.
So today, I guess I can ponder and focus on what my Exile wants. He doesn't want to hate my family the way I do. He wants to understand who they were beneath the masks and he wants to love THOSE people.
My 4-year-old-Exile is a bigger man than I am. I'm typically happy just hating them all and moving on. But I think I'm about to be taught a lesson in forgiveness. I'm not sure yet. I just know that my 4-year-old wants to understand and love people. My hatred for all abusers and sociopaths and narcissists isn't doing me any good. Finding a way to understand them and stay safe from them, CAN happen without my hatred. Maybe. Not sure yet. Time will have to decide whether this is possible.
Hard to say if this will change me, but I'm giving it a try. I'm going to keep meditating on this little Exile and his wishes until I know what to do with it all. I need to finish chapter three and delve into chapter four. It's pouring down rain today. Good day to sit back and read a bit.
Phil, I agree with you. This is a good conversation and I'm enjoying it too.
I have never heard of RIA, might help me to understand why I can't relax properly, ever. I think the last time I actually completely relaxed was back in August. But I was the opposite end of the country and away from all of the trauma and the people that caused it. Only the people I was with, and my Mum knew where I was. That was the first time I think I have felt some sense of safety in years. So many aches and tensions went away, whereas normally when I try and relax, my heart starts to race, and I tune in to the smallest of noises as movements. I become so jumpy, it's horrible and tiring. I'll definitely be doing some research.
Papa Coco, I'm not religious either and have never believed in a higher power as such. Like you, I believe we are all connected in some way. To each other and to the planet. We are all energy and by its very nature, energy doesn't stop, it's always transferred. Every time we do something, a piece of that is transferred either out into the world or onto a person or people. My problem right now I believe, is my parts aren't wanting me to put anything out into the world, it has always been so unsafe and every time I do, I get burned. I think this is why I am struggling to access, even for a second, my Core Self. She is too strongly guarded right now. But I am also struggling to communicate with my parts. To understand what they need. I need to read some more myself. I haven't got very far into the book yet either. I want to take my time and try and really understand all that is being said. I'm still only in Chapter 2 myself.
I'm so sorry to hear what your brother did. That was cruel and unnecessary. Siblings can be horrible creatures and in my own experience often have little respect for younger siblings and truly not care about your feelings. I'm not surprised it had a profound effect on you. You were so young, and that betrayal must have been huge.
(My 4-year-old-Exile is a bigger man than I am. I'm typically happy just hating them all and moving on. But I think I'm about to be taught a lesson in forgiveness).
Your comment here really made me think about being a small child again and how that's all we ever want. To love and be loved, to understand and be understood by those around us. No matter what they do. Children can teach us so much. Especially our own inner child, as we all know.
Sounds to me like that's what your Exile is still hoping to find. He is innocent and doesn't hold any of the resentment and anger that your adult self does (justifiably) and just wants to love and understand these people. Maybe because of that contrast, the two of you will hopefully be able to navigate a path to where you can help each other in new, more helpful ways. That you can help your Exile understand that it wasn't his fault. Never his fault.
I'm so pleased you were able to talk to your Exile and comfort him. You approach your parts with so much compassion and caring. So much understanding and zero judgement. It's inspiring to see and encourages me to keep going :)
I'm going to start a thread on RIA.
I'm going to hold off on this book until I get this under a little better control if I can :)
I'll probably still chime in because dang, I really am appreciating this thread
Phil, that would be awesome. I am really intrigued by RIA and at the moment I am just trying to absorb all the resources I can so this would be amazing :)
The book will be there when you are ready :)
Hopefully this thread will still be helpful for you too
Quote from: Master of my sea on November 04, 2022, 10:31:54 PM
My problem right now I believe, is my parts aren't wanting me to put anything out into the world, it has always been so unsafe and every time I do, I get burned. I think this is why I am struggling to access, even for a second, my Core Self. She is too strongly guarded right now. But I am also struggling to communicate with my parts. To understand what they need. I need to read some more myself. I haven't got very far into the book yet either. I want to take my time and try and really understand all that is being said. I'm still only in Chapter 2 myself.
When I first started IFS on my own, I wondered if I didn't have enough Self energy and was contacting my parts correctly. I think after a lifetime of dealing with narcissists, where you are taught not to take up space and to acquiesce to others, it was difficult to think Self is/was there. I think it was also maybe taught that Self was to be feared, or there was a punishment for speaking up/acting from Self. I'm also learning that just trusting myself is a big process. For me, it's still there what if I do something wrong? What if I make a mistake?
During an IFS I did relating to a dream I had, I had this feeling where things get really big, like a fear getting really big. So, I asked if there was a part behind it and to step forward and I met a two year old little girl that I think was me who was behind that feeling. I thought/think of her as an exile, I don't think she was a protector, but instead of the typical "exile hiding pain," she was the "fun, light, happy toddler stuff" that I think I had to hide away in my family.
Someone also mentioned to me that there are non-verbal parts that can be active. During an IFS, I was aware of this rock/transformer like stomping part that makes a lot of "background noise" in my mind. I also met parts that aren't "mine," and belong to my family (mother and grandmother's line), and these are called legacy burdens. Another thing I learned when starting IFS is that you can have hundreds of parts. It's not one or two that determine your make-up. I learned that some people keep them on a beach (what is a good calming environment for them) and the person goes to the beach and checks in on them and asks if anyone needs attention. I think it's very much a step by step process and there is no "pow" answer.
MOMS - I also find it hard to unblend sometimes and can be difficult to stop and see that I'm blended. As I mentioned to Hope, I feel like having CPTSD is like driving, or riding, in a car and you pass by all these "things" but don't necessarily experience them. It's like CPTSD keeps you moving. From reading your post it sounds like you already have an idea of your protector part, the one that doesn't want you to engage, or give any more of yourself to others. Maybe you could have a conversation with that part and let it know that you are an adult and creating a safe space for yourself, and that you can handle what comes up so they don't need to be so protective? That you think it's safe to experience more Self energy. There might be another part that then comes in and doubts what you say (for example) but then you ask that part to step back and reassure it that you can handle it.
The link below describes: "One of the first steps of IFS is unblending. It is inviting the client to see the emotion, sensation, belief as not what one is but as a manifestation, an experience resulting from the motion of a specific Part." The anxiety you are experiencing is coming from a part, so the aim is to create space between you and that part so you can dialogue with it.
https://lifearchitect.com/blog/parts-work-ifs-therapy/
This is quite a long talk series, but is given by Richard Schwartz, the creator of IFS and goes through the different elements of working with IFS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UfmGwENz9M&t=2348s
Derek has a lot of videos on his website. I've only seen a few of them but I think they could be helpful. This is another on working with Self where he says Self is not an advanced state for olympic athletes, but is readily available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwNxK01BfHM
Papa Coco I'm sorry that happened to you, but it also sounds like you're at the beginning of a better understanding (and healing) with what happened. I hope you do find a way to understand them and stay safe from them. It must have been hard for that four year old not to receive the love from the people he most wanted to love him, and I can understand why you went to the lengths you did to get that love from them with the masks. I glad you are finding something valuable in IFS for you.
This is also a good talk that I will post in ketamine therapy/psychedelic therapy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBikJMvkIT4
He describes the process of finding a trailhead which might be useful to some as well, the process of finding something to focus on and begin an IFS dialogue.
Papa Coco - this is around shame and thought I would post it after you talking about your experience with shame:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SPfiTld_Js
Part II of the talk on shame has some good framework for how to deal with parts that come up and get them to step back etc as well as unburdening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Isy3jWEyhQ
One of the difficult things to pin point with IFS I think is when to know if we're blended and what to do about that. Like in the video, I'm aware that I have a thinking part that's very active. For me it was safer to be in my head than in my body growing up.
I listened to this talk on blended parts and IFS and found it to bring up reactions from my thinking part. I also think he points out some good strategies for seeing if we're blended or not by looking out for how we describe a part. Is it with I think or I feel? I've often felt in therapy when I was asked about something body sensation etc or what does it bring up, that I wasn't really sure of the answer. Now, I'm wondering if I was blended with a thinking part. For example, before EMDR t would ask on a scale of 1-10 what how do you feel about x and I usually have two numbers. It's like a back and forth, or I'm unsure.
Anyways, might be useful tool for some to connect to their parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p_3bA_XOPA
This is also a wealth of podcasts on IFS on different subjects:
https://podtail.com/en/podcast/ifs-talks
Trauma and Dissociation Informed IFS with Joanne Twombly:
https://podtail.com/en/podcast/ifs-talks/trauma-and-dissociation-informed-ifs-with-joanne-t/
Thank you for all the resources Dolly. Very much appreciated :)
I am forever thinking, what if I make a mistake? What if I get it wrong? I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist by any means, but I am so particular about the way some things are done because of these thoughts and the fear that comes along with them. Being compassionate and considerate to myself was something I was always told to do and be, but it always felt like when I did, I was made to seem selfish and inconsiderate of others. So it would make sense that I am struggling to make that connection and gain that access to Self now. Thank you for highlighting the fact that this has generally been a negative thing for us to do. It's made me look at my own situation a bit differently.
I am starting to realise just how simple but also complicated IFS can be. From reading the book and the first case study (which reduced me to tears) I can see that for some people, the process is much easier but then there are those of us where it takes a lot more work. Like you said, there is no 'pow' answer and no two experiences with it are the same.
I have some time to myself this weekend and I think I am going to use it as an opportunity to try and do some IFS work. See if I can't try and un-blend, or even just notice that I am blended. Try and create that dialog. This will be a great opportunity to have a look through the links you have posted here.
I really like the idea of a place where all the parts can go, a place that is calm and relaxing and I can go and check in with them (once I have got them there :) )
Again just want to say thank you for all the links you have posted and the insight you have shared.
Ditto to Master of my Sea's comments about how we can't be nice to ourselves because we were once punished anytime we were kind to ourselves.
I had an IFS experience this morning that didn't make much headway, but did touch on, and expose, a major stressor for me.
I awoke at 3:30 AM in a mild anxiety-panic. I overthink everything because that's what people with anxiety disorders do. I ruminate about the past and worry myself stupid over the future--because that's what anxiety disorders make us do. I still feel all the pain from every mistake I've ever made, and I assume I'll feel that same pain again if I don't think of everything that can go wrong if I make more mistakes in the future. In my case, anxiety often manifests itself as chronic, constant worry and 24x7 hypervigilance.
I accessed an Exile and a protector this morning. I accessed them only for a few seconds because the pain that came with the access was too intense to move forward with. So, I got up out of bed and distracted myself with an early breakfast and some computer time. I wish that I could have not distracted. I wish I could have stayed with the pain long enough to start to heal, but no. It was too intense.
The Exile that I met this morning is a small boy who lives in my head and often blurts out the words; "Please just love me." What I mean by that is, when I'm ruminating about past mistakes, and am feeling utter humiliation from something I did or was done to me in decades past, I often involuntarily/accidentally blurt the words "Please just love me." The words sound like they're from a 4-6 year-old-child. Up until today, I've never asked myself why those words fall out of my face all the time, nor who in my IFS family is looking up from deep down in my soul, asking me to love him. This morning as I lay in bed wondering what/who woke me up, I heard this little voice, "Please just love me". So, today, for the first time in my life, I tried, very hard, to talk with this little person, and also with a protector who pops up whenever the Exile asks for love.
So far, my Exiles most often speak to me through bodily pains and discomforts, while Protectors will dialogue with me in my head. When this Exile appears, I feel a sudden shock to my chest, throat and face. I feel heat, like a volcano, bubbling up from my heart. But my heart feels cold and dead. My arms go weak. My eyes turn downward toward the floor in shame. Then the words "Please just love me" fall out of my mouth involuntarily. It happens several times per day. Without the Exile really talking with me, I feel that it is obvious why the Exile asks for love. As a child I was not allowed to ask for attention. I was humiliated and scorned if I wanted to be loved. My mother would verbally instruct the entire family of 7 of us, "Don't look at Jimmy. He just wants our attention." (This was during ages 0-7). Every mistake I ever made was hit by the famous catholic phrase, "What made you think THAT was a good idea?" And "You really think you're something...don't you?" It was not okay for a lowly loser like me to ask for attention or love, so it seems obvious to me that my little Exile is still trapped there. He knows that people forgive people they love. But people don't forgive stupid little boys who don't deserve to be loved. So he wants me to please love him so he can be forgiven. But I don't. (At least up until today I didn't. I HOPE I can work through this so that my little Exile starts to feel loved enough to stop asking me to love him).
As a child in my big family, my siblings all got all the attention they wanted, but I wasn't allowed to ask for attention or love so I had to take and enjoy love when (and only when) they darn well felt like giving it. (Which usually meant they wanted something from me, so they pretended to love me so as to trick me into giving stuff to them).
When I asked the protector why he ignores the little Exile asking for love, I was told that it's too painful for me (Adult/Core Self) to have to deal with that little Exile, so distraction is the strategy to bring me back into the present moment and continue to ignore the needy child still asking for love. It seems cruel, but our protectors are not cruel. This protector is protecting ADULT me from CHILD me. In a complicated twisted way, I understand that. This protector doesn't believe anyone will ever love this Exile, so he helps me avoid dealing with the unloved child Exile. It's sort of a "pick your battles" type of strategy. This Protector doesn't believe I can help this Exile so he gives me the gift of distraction. We all use the gift of distraction to help us deal with the fact that we can't help every abused child on earth, or feed every starving person on earth, or permanently fix global climate change, so we distract ourselves from battles we can't win in order to avoid going insane from empathy overload. I think that's why my protector distracts me away from the Exile, because up until now, the protector believed this unloved Exile was in the "I-can't-help-so-why-try?" category. The notion of sitting with this Exile feels like a case of empathy overload. I can only handle the feeling for about 8-10 seconds before I have to break free from it.
This morning, I allowed the protector to distract me because the pain in that Exile really is too frightening to deal with. HOWEVER, I want to find peace for this Exile. I want him to feel loved so he can stop asking "just please love me."
I know that my therapist would tell me to make space for this Exile. No need to solve his problems just yet. The best thing I can do to further my healing on this step is to allow the Exile to feel what he's feeling and to simply give him the attention he's always wanted. No need to fix it. Just give him his fair space at my table.
My plan is to stop what I'm doing about 3 times today, sit down, and try to access the unloved Exile and the protector who is distracting me away from him, and to stay with the energy of that sad Exile for at least 10 seconds each time. Maybe then, tomorrow I will be able to sit down with him three times for 11 seconds. Then maybe 12 seconds. Then maybe a minute, and eventually, a permanent breakthrough.
Hi Papa Coco
Those are some powerful words from a little boy.
I hope the space and attention you give him brings joy and love to him and you.
What more can we do, than show love to our parts :)
I can understand how painful it is to access that sadness and I'm sending a ton of support, best wishes and courage as you do.
Please just love me. It's haunting.
Thank you Phil.
Your support really helps.
:)
My therapist labeled some parts as "Inner Critic" and "A protector"
I'm a little dubious at the singularity, it appears as multiple parts. With different voices and different focus
I've read up a bit tonight and am wondering if "Exiles" are always young selves? Or if exiles can be abusers from adulthood?
DogMan - From everything I have read so far, it all seems to be that our Exiles are our younger selves, but I am not knowledgeable enough yet to state that as a fact. That's why we have our Protectors. They are there to guard the Exile, to keep them safe from whatever has triggered them. Our Protectors wouldn't want to guard our abusers. This is just my take/understanding of it so far. I am still learning so could be completely wrong.
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I think I have a part in play at the moment. All day yesterday and today I have been restless and agitated. Not knowing what to do with myself. Whenever I try a focus on something, I zone out. This can last from a couple of minutes to a good hour. It's like this part doesn't want me to focus.
I have been getting little snapshots of childhood events but they are fleeting. Almost like a slideshow or short clips. Every time I try to focus on a particular snapshot or reel, it's gone and something else takes its place. I sat last night and tried to communicate with this part but I couldn't get a response or any acknowledgement. I don't really know how to progress with this. Am I approaching it wrong? Or is it that I wasn't communicating with this part from Self?
I'm going to go over some of my IFS notes and maybe try and do some more reading (if I can focus long enough) and see if I can't figure out why I'm finding it a challenge to communicate with this part.
Hi Dogman,
I believe we absolutely do have many, many Exiles and Protectors in our brains. I once had to ask the forum why they are called Exiles. It has to do with the fact that Trauma doesn't happen from a scraped knee. It happens from mortal fear of being exiled from life, exiled from society, exiled from family and protectors. The greatest fear we have, especially as children, is being exiled from the herd, and left to die in the wilderness. For example many children who are molested, are molested by someone their parents trusted. The child knows the parents trust this person, so they feel like their parents--their ultimate protectors--delivered them to the abuse. That's a recipe for a trauma so severe that it often blocks memories completely from the victims. In the earlier years of my therapy, I said, "I feel like I was stripped down by my family and dangled, unarmed, and unprotected in a pit of alligators every day when I was sent to school."
It would be rare to have an exile who is triggered from a bad day on a soccer game. Trauma comes from fear of total annihilation and loss of all protection. I believe that trauma is how our brains 1) teach us not to repeat something that almost killed us once, and 2) provide pain relief by dissociating us during unbearable pain. Each traumatic incident, or each traumatic fear I have has its own Exile. I believe that Exiles can be created at any time in our lives, but that childhood is where we will have the biggest collection of them. Especially with the list of events that you've told us about from your own childhood. In adulthood, any Exiles we might create might be from being almost killed in a train crash or house fire. As children, we're so much more vulnerable that Exiles are created with much more frequency.
The way that I think about it is, I imagine that an Exile is a part of me who got filed away on a specific date or time in life. He sits quietly in a compartment of my brain. I forget about him until something today mimics the fear that created him 50 or 60 years ago. When the exile comes out of his compartment, another part of my brain, a protector, is triggered to protect that exile. I end up in 2022, dragged into using a method that shielded that helpless Exile in 1972. That exile and protector actually believe it's 1972 again, and the current danger is as real as it was 50 years ago when I was small and helpless. So my core self and my therapist need to work with them to show them that we're safe today.
Each of us still has a core self. What one therapist I saw on YouTube called the captain of the ship. The exiles might be the passengers, and the protectors are the crew. We don't want to exile our exiles, nor do we want to throw our protectors overboard. As a captain, we need a crew. We want them to adjust their protection to be more appropriate for 2022, rather than 1972. We want to comfort our exiles. Imagine them in our minds as if they are sitting next to us on the sofa and we, our core selves, are hugging them and promising that they are safe. Then we want to talk intelligently with our protectors and ask them why they are doing what they're doing. Intelligently thank them for their dedication and service and help them to see that we are now able to help the exile, and they can stop giving us the voices or shakes or stomachache, or raging anger, or whatever outdated method of protection they successfully used to help the Exile 50 years ago.
This is not a fast process. For me, I absolutely needed a good DBT to walk me through these moments of loving my Exiles and thanking my Protectors. But my DBT has done it with me many times now, and I'm finally able to do this on my own now. One visit is often not enough for me. I often visit Exiles multiple times until my brain begins to trust that I'm genuinely loving him. As my brain sees that I am trying, and I'm doing it lovingly, my brain has finally begun to trust my loving motives more and more, and as time goes on, this whole IFS process is getting easier and easier for me. But slowly.
In the bigger picture, I have the challenge to acclimate myself slowly into a temperature of loving myself after a lifetime of siding with my abusers and hating myself along with them.
For me, I succeed far better if I focus on progress rather than instant cure.
While I haven't gotten used to those terms, I think you described this so perfectly Papa Coco.
Quote from: Papa Coco on November 26, 2022, 03:54:40 PM
The way that I think about it is, I imagine that an Exile is a part of me who got filed away on a specific date or time in life. He sits quietly in a compartment of my brain. I forget about him until something today mimics the fear that created him 50 or 60 years ago. When the exile comes out of his compartment, another part of my brain, a protector, is triggered to protect that exile. I end up in 2022, dragged into using a method that shielded that helpless Exile in 1972. That exile and protector actually believe it's 1972 again, and the current danger is as real as it was 50 years ago when I was small and helpless. So my core self and my therapist need to work with them to show them that we're safe today.
Each of us still has a core self. What one therapist I saw on YouTube called the captain of the ship. The exiles might be the passengers, and the protectors are the crew. We don't want to exile our exiles, nor do we want to throw our protectors overboard. As a captain, we need a crew. We want them to adjust their protection to be more appropriate for 2022, rather than 1972. We want to comfort our exiles. Imagine them in our minds as if they are sitting next to us on the sofa and we, our core selves, are hugging them and promising that they are safe. Then we want to talk intelligently with our protectors and ask them why they are doing what they're doing. Intelligently thank them for their dedication and service and help them to see that we are now able to help the exile, and they can stop giving us the voices or shakes or stomachache, or raging anger, or whatever outdated method of protection they successfully used to help the Exile 50 years ago.
I believe exactly this 1000%.... maybe IFS isn't so different than how I visualize my ICs after all.
Thanks for putting such clear wording to this.
Hi Dogman,
I had a look into the focusing method you mentioned your therapist uses and to me it seems to be a variation of IFS but not IFS per se.
I think you are right that parts can come up as more than a singularity and there could be a couple reasons for this which are somewhat connected.
1. The part is actually blended with another part, so you are hearing multiple voices that seems like it's one part. In IFS, once you have Self energy/are in Self, you can ask that part the unblend, or for any other parts to step back/go into a waiting room, until you are speaking directly to the part that you would like to
2. The part is part of a system of parts and seems like it is one part. Parts can be "members" of a system of parts in us, which can be antagonistic etc. For example, you can have a firefighter that wants you to overeat to numb any feelings of shame/etc that are coming from an exile. This activates an protector (maybe in the form of an inner critic) who then becomes active, telling you how are you ever going to be successful etc if you can't control yourself. This could then activate another protector who challenges the inner critic/protector and tells you that you are doing the best you can etc. This is kind of a loose idea but there is more out there on systems. I think there's a podcast about it, but I will have a look.
I think you can have different parts that are exiles and doesn't necessarily have to be our younger selves. One of the things I like about IFS, is that you ask the part. So, you're not really guessing about a part's intention and can ask it directly, "what is your intention for me?" A protector might say something like, I want to keep you safe, I want to make sure this doesn't happen etc. An exile's response would be different as they keep all the buried feelings as Papa Coco mentioned; the things that the protectors don't want to come out. Once you make friends and gain the trust of the protectors (usually) you can speak with the exile. However, it doesn't always happen like that and sometimes exiles "pop" out.
As you progress with the exiles there's a process called unburdening where you take all the pain /shame/whatever from the exile and give it to one of the elements - burn it in the fire for example - and that exile is then transformed. So, they take on new qualities (as do the protectors) that are more "2022" than the coping mechanisms you used in the past.
One thing that's also interesting and might be relevant is that we can internalize parts that aren't us. For example, there are legacy burdens when you can internalize your parent (whomever) as an inner critic for example. It can then look like you are mimicking what this parent would say to you as a means to keep you safe, but ultimately, that part doesn't belong to you. There's a series of questions/ phrases that can indicate a legacy burden but I'm not sure how it would work with co-workers. There's also a whole other aspect of perpetrator/survivor energy exchange that I've read about but that's not for everyone as it probably lands in the more "out there" category.
The talk about system of parts might be here somewhere but this is a good resource of IFS podcasts. Have posted it above as well:
https://www.podcastaddict.com/podcast/2439917
dolly
This is also a good talk on shame that I listened to today which starts around ~25mins in
https://www.podcastaddict.com/episode/87695214
Some take aways are that shame has to "land" - that we have to identify with it and it then becomes "true" for us and goes from information to an "identity" which then spurs our system into action where the first step is to inhibit and hide this information (which is taken as true - emphasis mine)
- some people are more sensitive and that simple comments can trigger shame or something to be exiled
- shame is the opposite of compassion
- difference between shame and guilt - shame is a global judgement about me (I'm bad etc); guilt is a judgement about behaviour (which keeps us in line with the group; for socialization and can be a good thing)
- shame can be a protector --> that does the shaming; can also be an exile --> to feel shameful and the feeling the exile holds onto
- it's a way of control or getting power over someone else, and/or making them behave in a certain way; happens in parents to children, schools, social groups and all kinds of settings
These are the things that I thought pertinent to me and wanted to share. Especially the part about shame having to land and then we choose to believe that as true or not which becomes who we are essentially and how we see ourselves :stars: just an a ha moment after a life time of being around some hard core shamers, coming from cultures and generations that shamed
I have just read this entire thread and thank everyone for their illuminating and personal contributions.
I probably won't post much here (if at all) for some time yet as I have only just come across this type of therapy referred to in a couple of books I have read. I've barely scratched the surface of dealing with one inner child but the parts theory makes sense to me and I think it may be helpful to work with parts rather than lump lots of parts into one inner child (or even several children representing different ages).
I will be reading, though, and I felt moved to alert you to my presence in the thread. That is unusual for me as I generally just like to keep in the background everywhere I go unless I am 110% sure I can contribute something that might be thought to have some value.
Hey Phil,
I agree with you about IFS. It's only a new brand on an old concept. My therapist doesn't do IFS, but what he does do is get my core self in contact with my young, abused self, and helps me understand that all the grief I get from my own protective parts is meant to help, not hurt. He has me hug my frightened parts while discussing protection with my protective parts. IFS was invented long after my T started doing this with me. IFS is just another therapist's way of framing the process to help us all understand it better. In fact, my therapist, who is considered to be one of the best trauma therapists in the region, doesn't know what Complex PTSD is. Oh...he knows what it is, but he had never heard the term before I told it to him only recently. Other therapists thought you could only get PTSD from a single traumatic event, such as a car crash or a war. So my T was way ahead of the game by knowing PTSD could come from lost childhood abuse. His beliefs are exactly the same as those of C-PTSD and IFS, but without knowing the labels, he just somehow, intrinsically knew how to help anyway. It's like, he's been doing it forever, but never knew there were labels for any of it.
Hi all.
Thank you for this thread and wealth of information. I've avoided opening it since it started, fearful about parts and parts work and confused about IFS versus DID and not wanting to exacerbate any potential DID symptoms.
But I did try asking myself about a week ago why I get a specific pain in my feet remembering about this one event. My memory and visualization is impaired but I have a single photo from that summer and I brought that photo to mind. It's not visual but I can think about that photo and that girl in it and know what she looked like and feel her.
I started calling her "Feet" but then changed to Sandy. I imagined sitting next to her and asked why the foot pain happens, what happened to her feet? When I did that I saw an actual image of my foot appear. This does not happen for me.
But then....and here's where I have a question...other pains started clamoring for attention in a way that felt like they were completely separate from the one I was trying to talk to about the feet. There were Hips and Neck.
And then there was an avalanche of what are probably protector techniques...weird sayings, visual distractions, strange noises...
Has anyone experienced multiple parts...I guess in IFS terminology...multiple exiles from the same single traumatic event? Each had their own form of protector or firefighter. It felt different from when the pains have played through my body which happens plenty all one after the other. It felt like distinct parts?
It's possible the foot pain is a protector to start with, a sharp distraction from the other potentially more distressing pains but when I remember it almost always starts with foor pain and then progresses from there through the rest.
Armee,
That sounds very plausible to me. Teachers of IFS discuss having many exiles and many protectors.
For me, IFS and DID and Trauma therapy seem to be perfectly good strategies, all created for the same purpose of putting a fractured whole person back together. I believe that the absolute, ultimate goal of all of us with PTSD is to re-connect our body, brain and spirit all back together to function as a well-balanced, three-legged stool. But beneath the higher level headliners of body, brain and spirit, there exist many fractured detail parts. We often talk about dying by a million small cuts. To me, this is how the million small cuts all want to heal together.
Some therapists call my core self the captain of my ship, with a crew of many protectors who each service these many exile passengers. The glue the holds all my crew together is trust. Distrust fractured me. Trust must glue me back together. If my exiles and protectors are all on the same ship, then when one starts to feel trusted, the others take notice. When one starts to get loving attention, the others want it to. They suddenly see that the Core Self is ready to listen and comfort, so they start to jump on board. Sort of a monkey-see-monkey-do scenario.
I admit, this is my own personal way of grasping how it is that the momentum of healing takes hold in my own body, mind and spirit. A professional might dip a brow and say, "oooookayyyyy" and then clear her/his throat and get back to their professional process, but this impish way of seeing my parts works for me. The more one Exile starts to trust me, the more all of them do. Like clanking the dish...all the cats come running for dinner.
By this train of thought, I can see how when your foot felt enough trust coming from you, that it took the courage to appear finally in your mind's eye, other exiles took notice and wanted to be seen too.
That's all just my own childish way of looking at it in a way I could make sense of it all.
I recognize this is an older conversation, but maybe it can continue? I am just learning about IFS but I'm finding it helpful in that it allows me to be honest about how certain parts of me feel in that it allows me a certain emotional distance. I suppose this may be what my therapist would call "unblending"?
I'd be interested in reviving the thread. I've just started really trying to work with parts though I have avoided any books so don't know what I'm doing. Interesting timing because last night I tried to get in touch again with the same exiled part who has had to bear all the trauma alone from this one event. I forgot I had posted here last time I tried to do that. Similar thing happened last night but it felt a bit less chaotic. But still opens a floodgate of pains. I suppose that's the point though, to not leave that part alone with it all.
I'm freaking out and having a rough day but didn't want to not respond, Armee. I appreciate your post and sharing your experiences. I have therapy today. A part of me is in toddler mode. Another in angsty, angry teenager mode. Another part in shut down mode. And a very tiny, terrified part of me that is open to the healing journey. Today's session should be interesting ...
Good luck. I've been there. It'll be ok in therapy no matter what happens.
Hi Storyworld - I've found IFS helpful in a way that other therapies haven't been and allows me direct access to my emotions and is not me thinking or analyzing something. It's become more difficult though as things come up to sort of understand what's going on as I think there's dissociative/other parts active.
Hi Armee - there are others on here that have different experience in working with parts like with Janina Fischer's developmental trauma, which is parts based but somewhat different to IFS, that might be able to comment on this, but in IFS contacting exiles in the manner you're doing might be counterproductive. Without working with protectors first and trying to get in touch with those exiled parts can lead to a backlash, which can then lead to things getting worse. It might be useful to read a book and start with a basic knowledge of parts and how they work so as not to cause any issues.
___________________________
I've put this in my journal but might be useful to put here too as writing it out seems helpful. I feel like I'm trying to summarize things that I "know" or have learned so that I can see what parts are active etc as things feel "fuzzy."
- I'm realizing that Self was probably pushed out before it had a chance to develop which is maybe why people can feel overwhelming; that I don't have a Self to rely on, or there am suceptible to doubt etc instead of believing in Self. With a narcissistic family, they were always right and that led me to questioning myself or seeing that I was wrong. I wasn't allowed to express my feelings etc and my reality wasn't validated. I feel like this is verry young as on the other side is the feeling that I won't survive etc. It's also maybe in the way that the part shows up, that it isn't a coherent thought, but sensation. I think I need to explore this more. This could also be a legacy burden or something else. I feel like there's a few things active about allowing Self in.
- with this need for survival present, I think there's a part that is then very critical of myself and then things that I'm doing that might jeopardize my survival, and sort of keeps me stuck. I feel like this is a legacy burden but is also something that is quite amorphous and changes shape. I feel like the critical voice relates to my gf, but also to my m and gm who relied on my gf for monetary survival. It can be hard for me to see that I can rely on myself without an impending doom/nothing will ever be good enough etc, and that I have to give everything up (essentially me) in order to survive. It's really difficult to contact this part or to get a clear idea of it. Stuff about my gf started coming up recently like it was hidden in the background and there were important realizations that I had never considered. The two very strong dreams I had recently, also involved my gf.
So, I feel like I'm dealing with some dissociative or very young parts because it's hard to gain clarity on the things that are coming up. Add to that that I feel there are parts who don't want to let this go because they are worried about survival and trusting that I, as an adult, can handle these things. I don't know if the dissociation feels like a fog as some other people have described it. I think it's a tension in my shoulders and a just kind of humming in place, not able to go deeper. Normally, I can be quite reflective on my situation/what is going on, but it seems like this just stops. Interestingly, it's also like a forgetting on how to do things. Like I need to do invoices right now, which I know how to do, but going through and doing them seems daunting. Even though I know once I start it will be fine and go rather quickly, as well as giving me some satisfaction. On the other side is like a pit that nothing will ever bee good enough or something like that. Just wanted to add that.
Hi Armee - I'm curious why you chose to write about what I suggested in your journal and not on here?
I have no idea.
Well, now reading back on the post, I was writing about more than IFS and parts work in my journal and that statement about books and IFS flowed from the things I was trying to write in my journal. It's easier for me to find stuff in my journal to refer back to, so that's where I prefer to document reactions and such.
I just bristle a bit at the way the experts entrenched in IFS talk about it as being the be all, end all, especially not needing stabilization phase work. I have had bad experiences, harmful experiences with experts espousing one particular methodology and treating me certain ways if their extra special proven method doesn't solve the problem.
Those experiences with experts set on one particular preferred methodology (that they developed) have set me back much farther in healing than experimenting slowly on my own.
It wasn't meant as a criticism of your advice, just self-reflection on why the books on IFS rub me the wrong way.
I'm sorry if the way I expressed myself felt like I was disagreeing with you. :hug:
You are right, and my therapist also thinks that I should read books on this and take what feels right and leave what doesn't. But I'm still not sure I want to.
Hi Armee,
I didn't think, or didn't take it personally, that you were disagreeing with me and I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. What it came across as is someone who was so convinced that they were right about something that they couldn't engage, or give time to something that didn't support their own viewpoint, or to even consider that another viewpoint (reality) might be valid. I'm saying this because this is something that you have done in the past in my journal and on another thread about health issues. When I brought it up initially, you said that working with your t resolved it. I said that's great for you, but it didn't work for me. When I mentioned it again in my journal, you said the same thing and again, I said I'm glad you found something that worked for you, but it didn't work for me, which you never replied to. Then you came on my journal and did it again. To me, it feels like denying someone's experience in order to get your way.
I haven't come across any experts talking about how IFS is the be all and end all, but am happy to read what you are referring to. I think there are probably inexperienced therapists who might use IFS to fit everything, but you have those in any kind of therapy. I get your cautions especially if you had bad experiences in the past. It is important to be heard. What I do sort of fail to see is how learning about another modality means that you must immediately use it and it is deemed this the way you have to use it. To me, reading about something is simply gathering information about how something works, and then seeing if you're able to apply it to yourself. What comes up with what you wrote, in terms of IFS, is that it sounds like there are protectors active that are trying to keep you safe and that they are concerned your exiled parts might take over if you continue, which could very well happen. In IFS speak, it sounds like you're blended.
Hope you find the next step in your healing that's right for you,
dolly
I hope it's OK to move forward in this thread because I think an important point has been made that's worth discussing further. This isn't about IFS specifically, but it is about therapists being married to their approach. I recently had the exact experience you're talking about where because I wasn't loving the single therapy approach used and spoke up about it, I was the one with the problem. Being blamed is so endemic to us I have to wonder how many survivors simply accept that.
I left the program which involved solely CBT treatment for seniors with anxiety and depression. I tried to tell the T's about my background of trauma and how I needed some relational therapy in addition to cognitive work. They didn't want to hear about it. I left the program with the blessing of the psychiatrist assigned to me (quite the surprise but he got it, he just wasn't in charge of the program to change things up). I know there were several others in the program who had trauma and a number who had come back to the program for a second or third time. Ostensibly the CBT just wasn't enough. I was really sad when one person said to me that they were back because they hadn't worked hard enough on the CBT. Another fellow who had never talked about his trauma in his life said to the group "I'm just going to let it all go and work on using this CBT to change my life." OMG.
I wrote an article about how relational treatment needs to be considered for seniors with anxiety and depression because many of us have untreated or unresolved trauma in our background and single approaches such as CBT do not address the deep wounding we experienced. It was just published by the ISTSS Complex Trauma Special Interest Group in their newsletter which will reach a ton of clinicians. Hopefully they will hear that the message that one approach alone such as CBT does not typically work well when it comes to trauma.
There are inexperienced T's out there and IMO we do need to be aware of that. I tried EMDR some years ago with one such T and my EFs were off the chart. I later learned about the approach and realized why this was; she had not done any of the grounding needed and went straight to the heart of my trauma. I was a mess for weeks.
All this is to say I think we need to be careful of T's who are married to an approach, especially if they don't hear us or worse make us feel it is because we aren't trying hard enough, that we are the problem. Big red flag that. :yes:
I'm really sorry Dolly. I'll think about my replies carefully to try to not come across that way as denying others' experiences or trying to get my way. I truly intended it only as what works for me and what I am getting tripped up on. You are of course right about the IFS pieces. What I was getting at was yes my own personal issue (as in I see this is my issue, to be worked on and improved on) with the experts, not fellow travelers. I apologize because it seems like my communication style is not quite right in how I am engaging here.
Kizzie I think that's a very good point that we are told one way is supposed to work and people take it to heart that it doesn't, or there's something wrong with them. I think I felt that way in therapy as well with my first therapist. I'm sorry you had those experiences with EMDR because I think it helped me a lot.
Armee - thank you for your response. We're all just people here trying to deal with trauma the best we can in the end.
Dolly and Armee - I just love that you two worked things out :thumbup: :applause:
Prompted by this conversation and some of my own experiences rercently with dissociation, I listened to this podcast and it brought up some good points as well as strong reactions in me.
IFS and Dissociation with Joanne Twombly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vULDIjUq75A
- One of the biggest aha moments/reactions was that - dissociative parts are/can be related to secret parts and that having parts be secret is what helped us survive childhood. This is also the sense that I got from an exile that just sort of popped up, that she was all the (good) qualities that had to hide away in order to survive. What surprised me was that I always thought exiles would carry pain but she didn't seem to carry any of that.
- Interviewee was commenting that if a kid gets into Self in a dysfunctional family, they get their feet kicked out from under them. So, you want to hide Self which can then be one of the difficulties in accessing it.
- Sometimes Self is not enough (see above) because there are difficulties accessing Self. There could also be compliant parts who say that they are in Self but then unable/unaware that they are dissociated, meaning they can't take on the burdens not overwhelm (*as I understand it*). Feel this is true to me where as a young baby you experienced trauma/overwhelm, so Self got pushed out early. Now, there is no framework for accessing Self and must be done through direct access.
- Can allow parts to continue to dissociate until they are able to have control of the choices.
Something else I read about dissociation recently that I really like is that it is like a compass for when our internal system goes out of whack. It is something that resets our internal world to function.
I am grateful for this opportunity to discuss IFS.
Is anyone still here?
I just got this email today from Dr. Amie. She has a podcast. This particular episode is on IFS
https://biologyoftrauma.com/are-the-trauma-parts-of-you-keeping-you-sick/
I have found that IFS work is, so far, giving me the most benefit over most of the other healing techniques I've tried.