Wondering if anyone has had any progress with SE techniques. I've had quite a bit of talking therapy over the years and now at a crossroads of where to next. It's definitely up until now a case of being more concerned to avoid these huge feelings of overwhelm and it makes sense that being able to experience them more fully may go some way to help discharge them.
I've read some of Peter Levine's stuff and about to read Janine Fisher and beginning to understand that it's important to build in some resilience before embarking on this type of work. Firstly, in times of covid, is it possible to do SE over Skype with a therapist or is it a therapy that doesn't really lend itself to Skype?
my therapist was trained by Pat Ogden and Janina Fisher... here's their site... https://account.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/directory.html
Hi Geneva - I've had about 6 sessions of SE virtually and it seems to be helping.
I spend a lot of time in my head so getting back into my body and feeling the sensations that arise was I felt a necessary next step for me. My T and I go really slowly (titration) and we don't just focus on fear or anger - negative bodily sensations -- but good ones as well.
I haven't gotten into any breath work or meditation, etc so can't speak to that. I'm really just at the stage of noticing bodily sensations when I can, don't even call it being mindful, just noticing, being curious.
Not much to pass along but thought I'd share my limited experience thus far :)
thanks Barney and Kizzie, it seems an interesting option.
IMO any therapy has to have a relational component as well as somatic to get us back into our bodies if we tend to dissociate a lot. If we are to stay present we need to be able to trust others and ourselves and that's where relational work comes in. It is relational trauma afterall.
Have you found a therapist yet Geneva?
Hi Kizzie, I'm starting to look around. I'm in the UK and this will be funded privately. Trying to find my way around the literature / research and probably getting overwhelmed and stuck. Also aware of virtual options around the globe, so the net widens - not that it makes it any easier ! Reading a bit more about different approaches and trying not to spend too much time reading through the therapists' biogs at betterhelp - too many.
thanks for sharing your experience and your comment about the importance of the relational aspect to our trauma recovery.
edit - have just realised sensorimotor psychotherapy and somatic experiencing are very different approaches although with some things in common.
Good luck with the search, it's not for the faint of heart as I know only too well. We moved closer to a larger city in 2019 partly because it gave me access to T's who know about and are experienced in treating CPTSD. Still there are so many models/types it's just really difficult to choose one or two. Happily there is a push on by a number of psychologists to pars out the most effective bits and combine them into treatment for Complex PTSD specifically. Judith Herman who came up with the diagnosis in the 1990s is leading the charge.
Progress is being made, just way slower than most of us would like.
Hi Geneva, I first did Somatic Experiencing 6 years ago and after doing a lot of talk therapy before that I would say that's when I turned a corner and really started my long healing journey. I may be wrong, but I think SEPs who have trained to the advanced level will be working in a relational manner, so it depends really on the training and working methods of the therapist.
I agree with Kizzie that a relational approach is absolutely necessary and my experience has been that a multifaceted approach involving both that and body awareness can be really effective.
My therapist and I rarely use straight SE techniques these days as she has subsequently trained in other modalities but I am very glad that I did the SE work which was really effective at teaching me to regulate my NS and growing body awareness, which I think are very useful skills to have in this healing journey.
BTW I've done a few online SE sessions and it can work well.
Good luck with the search!
thanks Marko, the approach does seem to have value.
I'm still looking around for a suitable match. Betterhelp, although having a range of rates, don't seem to have anyone listed specifically with SE qualifications although some offer a somatic approach.
Many although certainly not all of the SE therapists listed in the SE specific directories have training and experience in areas other than psychotherapy and counselling and I'm wondering how that figures with the importance of the relational component. Of course it's possible to build trust and have therapeutic benefit with any practitioner but just an interesting observation.
do agree with everyone on this thread who's mentioned the benefits of getting reacquainted with bodily sensations where previously the strategy of overriding them was important to carry us through. It's the very stuff that can bring us back to ourselves.
Treatment of CPTSD seems to be in its infancy thus the trouble many of us seem to have finding T's and figuring out which models are effective. And if you don't live near a city and want face-to-face sessions, it's just that much harder.
I should say that my T explained to me that she is not using Peter Levine's SE model per se, but is focusing on becoming aware of the somatic sensations/feelings that come up when we're talking about things. So it's a more general somatic approach, sorry hope I didn't lead you astray.
ah, that makes sense Kizzie.
I've found Skype sessions valuable and effective so far for talking therapies. And can imagine some somatic approaches can still be really effective virtually too. Seems to be a bit of a revelation now that many sessions are taking place over zoom/skype when previously it was thought limiting. With everything going on - more awareness of trauma as well as the virus, it's definitely noticeable that therapists aren't taking new clients and have full waiting lists.
Yes, too many different types of therapy out there, makes my head spin and I've been reading about trauma for a while and have tried a few different approaches. What we really need as survivors is guidance on what's effective - once the field sorts that out themselves that is.
I don't think there's much in the way of specific models for Complex PTSD at the moment. The only one I'm aware of is STAIR narrative therapy - https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=vEPhDwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=marylene+cloitre+stair+2020&ots=aywHHd8aiP&sig=H-t-tGvwTjKZ_jqK1RdvMuML-0g#v=onepage&q=marylene%20cloitre%20stair%202020&f=false.
What's helped me the most is having a flexible therapist who is willing to learn and practice new modalities to help his client. The relationship is strong and then we can try new methods based on the relationship and his willingness to learn and step outside his own box.
We tried working through the methods he was trained in first (CBT, DBT, mindfullness) but despite working really hard we kept hitting walls.
He was open enough to see it wasn't my fault but that we needed to add tools. The original tools had their place and helped for pieces of this cPTSD puzzle but I firmly believe no one therapeutic approach - or even 3 or 5 approaches can touch the complexity of complex PTSD.
We added elements of somatic experiencing in the way that Kizzie describes with her T and it was SO SO helpful. It still wasn't the be all end all so we've also added EMDR and that is getting at pieces that couldn't be touched by the other methods. But again EMDR alone could not have touched the complexity.
The relationship and trust is the glue for sure. When the first methods alone didn't work I needed to have reason to trust that my T would still be able to help me and that neither of us needed to give up.
I am grateful every day that when he blundered badly with some of those methods that I had that trust to stick with it. I could have blown out of there either feeling let down or beyond help. I just stubbornly stayed and it has been so worthwhile. I am feeling better than I ever knew was possible and have a whole new level of trust.
And I think we still need to add pieces of other modalities, too.
Quote from: Kizzie on January 02, 2022, 04:02:58 PM
not using Peter Levine's SE model per se, but is focusing on becoming aware of the somatic sensations/feelings that come up when we're talking about things. So it's a more general somatic approach
Same with my T, though he didn't explain it.
Also like Armee says, it can be a sort of mix - one element of this type, another of that type. In addition, ime good Ts will take a model and adapt it to a patient/client. One of the biggest problems I've experienced in the past is having Ts who try to fit me, my past, my reactions and especially my blockages, my 'No', into a set pattern. We are
people, not bits in a factory. The mind is very complex.
In fact the Ts who have helped me the most have been those using a mix of methods.
Quote from: Blueberry on January 03, 2022, 06:55:04 PM
We are people, not bits in a factory. The mind is very complex.
In fact the Ts who have helped me the most have been those using a mix of methods.
:yeahthat: And who have listened to and respected me.
I agree with the need for us to have a mixed method therapy that addresses the various symptoms/responses we have. In fact it looks like the big names in trauma are beginning to say the same thing. Dr. Judith Herman (first to propose Complex PTSD in the 1990's) suggests, however, that the field needs to look at just what is effective:
Since it is not realistic to expect that practitioners will become expert in numerous different, specialized techniques, some researchers now suggest that we might be ready to shift our focus from studies of competing models to studies that elucidate the common features of effective therapies.
This makes sense to me; look at the most effective bits of a number of models (and there are so many), and then develop an evidence based, holistic model for treating Complex PTSD. I'm fairly certain it would include relational, somatic and neurological components, at least that's what I would hope for.
hello all...from sunny Canada
am just midway through year 4 of therapy. It started as SE and added new features as needed. Brainspotting being the latest, a kind EMDR derivative especially for trauma. Very powerful...
Two books I have found very useful are: Nurturing Resilience, Kathy Kain/Stephen Terrell, and Healing Developmental Trauma, Laurence Heller.
My therapist uses a lot of the Kain/Terrell material, especially the Primitive Reflex Exercises, which are awesome. We did a whole year of those once a week on Zoom.
This seems to be a long and winding journey, sometimes patience leaves, but then returns.
all the best,
Stay well
Redwing
Hello to a fellow Canadian :heythere: We're just finally coming out of 2 week long deep freeze where I live - 25 and colder every day. It supposed to go into the plus temps for a few days so fingers crossed. It's been way too cold!
Anyway, it sounds like your T has used quite a few different therapies which seems to confirm that CPTSD requires a holistic approach. I don't know much about brainspotting or primitive reflex work. If you're so inclined I'd love to hear more.
You're so right about patience, mine waxes and wanes too. It's just a long journey which makes sense I guess given our trauma was ongoing.
Hi Kizzie...
yeah patience, acceptance of present experience and no expectations...sometimes it is hard...lol
primitive reflexes: my T took training with Stephen Terrell, he co wrote the resilience book mentioned in my original post. There is a whole healing sequence in the body work training, the primitive reflexes are an "enhancement" They are quite incredible to do as an adult, one has no idea that birth/prenatal trauma has affected development...
here is a link: https://www.lynnhellerstein.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Primitive_Reflexes-1.pdf
Brainspotting is a another weird one, as my T admits she is a little on the bleeding edge when it comes to new stuff, so we get to try things..:-) Essentially the developer was and EMDR therapist who was noticing some clients reactions to where they were looking...story in link below.
https://brainspotting.com/
I have only done a few sessions of it, very useful if one has a specific issue arising....
one day at a time, mostly... :wave:
stay well and warm...
Redwing
very interesting Redwing... a bit difficult to go through at the moment, but have saved the page to explore later
Have been off the forum for a while, revisiting this thread. Been working with an Internal Family Systems practitioner for the last two years who's a psychotherapist. Parts work and body awareness and it's bearing fruit. Finding myself interested in psychedelic supported psychotherapy although it turns out my strongest protector parts have many concerns about it. Early days.