I'm not really sure how to express this, but there seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to relationships with others. Anyone and everyone will tell you that humans are social creatures, its important to have friends, to feel like a valued member of the community etc.
The thing is that social interactions (especially in person) are so overwhelmingly difficult, that they always seem to be negative. They take so much out of me, leave me feeling guilty and like a failure etc. There is clear evidence that I do much better when I am disconnected from others. Trying to force friendships, or getting lost in a romantic relationship has markedly negative effects on me. Sometimes I do feel lonely though, and this seems to go against the overwhelmingly held belief that social interaction is an important positive part of life.
My psychiatrist personifies this disconnect to me perfectly. He has diagnosed me with agoraphobia and social phobia, among other things, and then every time I see him, he asks if I have been going out with my friends, or if I have any new romantic interests. No, of course I haven't, that kind of thing makes me feel horrible. Why would you even ask?!
I imagine this in physical terms as a person who is allergic to water. Obviously, they need that water, and they feel effects of dehydration from not having it, but at the same time, drinking the water will cause physical symptoms as well. This person goes to a checkup with their doctor, and their doctor asks if they've been drinking plenty of fluids... well no, they're allergic.
So, first off... can anyone else relate to this? Just feeling so bad by trying to participate in this "positive, necessary part of life?" Beyond that, what do you do? It seems like a lose-lose situation. How do you turn this around?
QuoteThe thing is that social interactions (especially in person) are so overwhelmingly difficult, that they always seem to be negative. They take so much out of me, leave me feeling guilty and like a failure etc. There is clear evidence that I do much better when I am disconnected from others. Trying to force friendships, or getting lost in a romantic relationship has markedly negative effects on me.
I can
totally relate Jazzy :yes: I stopped looking for relationships about three years ago because I felt so much better not having anything but acquaintances I liked and could chat a bit with then go home and not have them over for coffee. I'm not sure whether or how or when this might change but for right now I am content.
Part of the reason we're moving is that we ended up buying a house in a small new neighbourhood 6 years ago we thought would be where we stayed after retiring. Turns out to be all retired people who want to chat when they see you outside doing anything, have coffee, like block parties and house parties - in a word for someone like me this is :aaauuugh: We are moving to a more age diverse town where it is not all seniors so there won't be as much focus on us.
I'm not antisocial so much as I need/want guilt free me time. I spent most of my life focused outwardly on others - either to placate them, avoid threat, whatever. Alone I can finally relax and slip back into my own skin. It's my choice now to be
self referenced versus
other referenced (there's been some discussion about this here if you want to search). I am embracing it because I need/want it and it feels so much better than the constant anxiety of living outside my self & having my energy drained.
One thing I have learned with having Complex PTSD is that not everything that is "true" for those who don't have our history is true for us. Thanks for bringing this up Jazzy, as always I feel better knowing I am not the only one who feels a certain way :hug:
I've been on both ends of the social/alone spectrum. While I had some pretty socially involved employment situations, I never could fully adjust to the pressures I felt around people. I know I let many down because of my awkward social skills, but also due to my inability to feel comfortable explaining from where my reticence grew (the cptsd saga).
It probably seemed weird in a way, because I could perform as an outgoing actor, but as soon as performances were over I retreated back to my private self. It did -- and still does -- help that I'm a voracious reader and music lover, I suppose.
It was the old 'caught between a rock and a hard place' routine, and I stayed frozen in it. Even in social situations; even where I could have thrived there, I was always -- consciously and subconsciously -- looking for safety.
Mind you, the hardest was that at some level I desperately wanted a friend or 2 who could fully understand, but I also learned how to set boundaries (although I'm sure they looked like thick walls to many others).
I'm still torn -- there are ways I could lessen the lonely side, but on the other escape is what I built my life towards. I did find understanding friends for a while, but it didn't last. I guess I've mostly accepted that I still have self-imposed limits that might handicap potential relationships, but I also see it as a sign that perhaps my needs have never veered to favouring the social over the private life, loneliness included. Most important, I feel less apologetic about my choice, knowing how it came about.
That said, everyone's comfort level with this varies. I hope you can find some way to live at peace with yourself, Jazzy. "Lose-lose" doesn't fully apply here ... it's more "I have to live with myself and how can I make this my optimum and self-loving choice?" :hug:
Thank you for the replies. You both make some very good points, and it always good to hear I'm not alone. :hug:
I'm hoping that there is still improvement for me to do in this area eg. I can learn to feel more peace in social situations, but even if not, I'm sure that I can learn to do things more for me, and worry more about my own feelings rather than being judged by others.
I'm a little late to this conversation jazzy, but, shortly before opening OOTS today, I was sitting in my garden with my dogs thinking that my life is safer and calmer when I am essentially alone in their company, with no humans nearby, and then, now and again, I can have pleasant and fairly short interactions with dog walkers, strangers or acquaintances.
I'm confident and outgoing with people and can strike up a conversation easily if I wish to do so but I'm always conscious that there's a time when it should end and I wave a friendly goodbye before they start to 'zero in' on me and work out how they can use me for their own needs.
It sounds paranoid doesn't it, but I have no-one to protect me (I have never had anyone to protect me) and, like Kizzie, I've found that 'trying to force friendships, or getting lost in a romantic relationship has markedly negative effects on me'. In my experience, leaving things on a polite and friendly level with acquaintances is my best protection against introducing more trauma into my life.
I think I have, and will always have, 'prey' written fairly clearly on my chest when it comes to predators. Certainly, my attempts at romantic relationships in life, none of which was initiated by me and each of which started out of a sense of duty and politeness to someone who approached me, have been with predators. I refuse to do that again.
My psychoanalyst many years ago said I was the most 'hermit-like' person he knew. And I understood him to be criticising my tendency to keep away from people. However, I'm now convinced that having a few long-standing but somewhat distant friends, no close family relationships and a number of pleasant acquaintances (and my lovely dogs to care for) is best for me as a survival strategy and I no longer feel I'm doing something 'wrong'.
I'm comfortable with my own company and feel that the companionship of reading writings by like minded people essentially keeps the pain of loneliness at bay most of the time. I know it represents, in theory, a great loss for me in all I could experience with companionable people but it's an accommodation I've reached with the reality of my traumatic history, the seemingly high numbers of dysfunctional people around me and my isolated position as an independent, highly educated, professionally successful and intellectually inclined woman living on her own in a markedly patriarchal country.
Sadly, I'm confident that if I were a man with my personality, and even if with my traumatic history, I would not need to be so vigilant at staying away from people to avoid being harmed. But that is reality and we need to function in reality and bear the costs as best we can.
I just wanted to add that I'm hopeful treatments & supports for Complex PTSD will improve and become more accessible in the near future so that we can get to the heart of the relational barriers we experience more effectively.
Jazzy this has been a really helpful discussion for me. To be prompted to articulate why and how I manage on my own has been reassuring for me somehow. I'm doing it. I'm managing. But, in truth, it's not without valued therapeutic support in healing my injuries.
Hi jazzy
I very much relate and came on here to post about the same subject.
My understanding is as someone with complex trauma I have attachment issues... I mean blimey why wouldn't I.
Over the years I've done OK in friendships and relationships because I've been passive and in addictions. The past couple of yrs esp I've been much deeper in my recovery and discovering who I really am.
I'm changing in my boundaries with people and my self worth is growing.
I spend quite a bit of time by myself or when I'm doing things I move from situation to situation not so much forming attachments.
Interacting with people fills me with fear and I often freeze not knowing what to say.
I want to be close to people but it's much easier not to be. I'm working to give a little more of myself away by talking about me and not just listening.
I believe that much recovery can be made in forming healthy attachments I just need to work out how to go for healthy people. I figure as I heal this will be become easier..
My dream is to be healthy in this area but I know it's going to take much persistance..
We don't have to do this but I want to
I'm in CAT therapy which is challenging but really hitting the core of relational healing..
I can really relate to this topic. When i see folks at 12-step groups I go to having a group like experience...or someone to talk to right as meeting ends...i feel so awkward and uncomfortable, i used to not be able to tolerate that empty, lost, abandoned, unseen, invisible - feelings. And I would leave with rage that I wasnt seen, or acknowledged enough (if I had shared perhaps i was in pain).
(I think that issue of not being seen, or wanting to be saved, and looking for unmet childhood needs, and child like rage at folks that my inner child feels do not care enough,,never care enough, how and why could they possibly...? I am learning to give it to myself at those times..self talk, reminding myself they cannot save me, that i am adult now, and have support i can reach out to, etc)
i have had that experience of being well known to a group, and much comfort in that. Tolerating the time/effort it takes, often means sitting thru painful disconnection there in meantime. Also putting less expectation / desparation / neediness on the group - and reminding myself it takes time...and working to self soothe and give it to myself, has started to help alot!
anyways...i'm seeing my attachment trauma and certainly not having 'good enough' parenting, and lifetime of self sufficiency - leads me to be very 'independant', life learnt dont need others, and often preferring to be by myself. I'm saddened to think back on my life as being so utterly lonely as such.
I often see also that i will choose to not reach out to people that i could..or forget about them in moments.. or discount their understanding of the depth and complexity (terminal uniqueness), etc...when i fall into an extended emotional flashback, and time of deep emptiness / despair like feelings.
(i have been working to build a tolerance for these deepest abandomnent feelings..trying to sit with them, let my kid flash back to how he felt..desolate, hopeless, etc. I try to do in safe place, sometimes use THETA wave music and TRE..usually some grieving happens also, and back end it with some reparenting visualizations to comfort and wind him down from the experience.)
MY partner does not have this trauma, and has many long standing relationships - I can feel deep shame that I generally do not. And even if I am in contact with people, I can still feel these dreaded emptiness/abandonment/despair feelings..but it often can break the spell if i am able to tolerate the anxiety of approaching contact..
Anyways...thanks for reading my rambles...:)
Hey Jazzy, I haven't read the rest of the posts here so this might be a repeat... it also might be a not so conventional way of seeing it but...
I believe that personally some people do just want to be alone, either from their personality, environment, or upbringing. I would ask oneself...
- Do you WANT to have a relationship?
- Do you feel like you NEED to have a relationship?
- Would having a relationship fulfil some sort of desire you have?
If 'no' to all of these, then I see no reason why you should be pressured to seek some kind of relationship. I don't like the expectation that EVERYONE needs to be married and have a family - because I know some people just aren't up for that.
If however you feel you WANT a relationship but are unable to because of your unfortunate anxiety and CPTSD, then it's something you can work on and it's a goal you can strive for.
But if you want to be alone - not because of an inability/pressure - but because you deeply feel you would be happier in the long run, then go for your life! You're always going to get questions and comments from others, asking how your 'love life' is going or your friendships. But you can always tell them honestly that you prefer to go it alone. And that's okay!
This was probably a really abstract recommendation and you can take it with a grain of salt.
Sea spells
Quote
'i have been working to build a tolerance for these deepest abandomnent feelings..trying to sit with them, let my kid flash back to how he felt..desolate, hopeless, etc. I try to do in safe place, sometimes use THETA wave music and TRE..usually some grieving happens also, and back end it with some reparenting visualizations to comfort and wind him down from the experience'
This has really been helpful for me to read... I've just started to become aware of just how frozen I am in people's company I don't know v well..
To read your post and put the abandonment and the inner child together is really helpful for me
Also re parenting visualizations... I don't know about these so could be useful for me to learn about
Jazzy, I regularly ask myself the same question. Just this afternoon, I was standing in front of 2 friends of mine who were chatting away happily, and I felt so disconnected, so unseen. I thought, "Who needs friends anyway?" :dramaqueen: So, yes, I can totally relate to you.
But, like woodsgnome, I have a crazy extrovert side (that I have certainly developed as a child to survive the loneliness) that works! People respond positively, and I do get energized from it. But then, of course, I put on a good show, and I don't always get a standing ovation, then the feeling of abandonment is heart-wrenching...
What I've learned is that the basic rule for me is to avoid being retraumatized. In my reparenting task, I need to develop a strong, loving, protective inner father who will stop me from getting into overwhelming situations. What I do is kind of like sticking my toe into the bathtub to test the temperature of the water. I commit myself to a coffee break with one person. If it feels good, I might organize to have lunch some weeks later. Then, if it feels OK, I might add a couple more people into the mix next time. I make it clear to myself that this is an "experiment", so that my Inner Child does not freak out and knows that none of these arrangements or relationships is permanent or irreversible. So, if at any point in this experiment I start to feel that I am putting more energy in than I'm getting back, my inner father needs to bring me back to my safe space, and encourage me to stay there as long as I need, alone if necessary.
Secure attachment, community, solidarity - these are all ideals that I want to have too. For now, I need to be content with little victories, one coffee at a time.
Jazzy, your post really resonates with me, and is something I've been recognizing more and more lately.
I'm so much more comfortable alone. I have a group I go to once a week, , it's FUN, but every time I start to get anxiety the day before and it often amps up really high by the time it's time to go. Sometimes I don't. Other times I go ahead in what feels like forcing myself to go. Most of the time it's ok once I get there. I take lessons in a music group, so it's an enjoyable activity. But, it's also performance, which terrifies me. I've thought I will work through this by being i this group. It's been 10 years and I feel like I've fallen behind all of the newcomers, and have not overcome. I have made small improvements though. I don't have as severe of adrenaline when we perform.
Even if I enjoy it, I feel a big sigh of relief when I get home, having a week to go before I have to be in that exposed of a situation again. It's all by choice, but it seems I have not improved much in my tolerance for it. I'm determined not to quit as I have so many other things.
Then, I have a handful of long-time friends who I see each individually very occasionally. This seems to be enough for me, but I wonder, am I being a good friend, or a good enough friend? I feel a deep connection to them, but we rarely see each other.
One of my close friends has a small group of friends, and we have all been acquainted the same length of time. I seem to be the "outcast" who has not been able to form deeper connections with this group, and I feel anxious and awkward when the group texts are going around about this that and the other get togethers. Sometimes I can tell there have been activities I've not been invited to. I'm just so not-comfortable in that group, yet I don't know how to extricate myself from it. The people are nice, and I feel like a jerk. When I have something else going on during these invites, I feel a huge relief I don't "have" to go.
I feel like there is something about me that doesn't translate to others. Like for most people, being nice in various ways translates to being nice. For me, when I genuinely try to make connections, be a friend to new people, bing nice, I often feel like I come across as awkward or trying to hard, and feel it is a turn off to people. It's not my intention, but when the advice is "be connected, be vulnerable, be in community with others" yada yada, and you do that and they treat you like "ew". THAT is a trigger for how my mom treated me, and it turns out to feel like there was a lot of truth to all of her put-downs.
Logically, I think that can't be so, but it sure feels like it.
Today I realised that I'm actually OK with time on my own... Not for too long but much more than the average person.. Whoever the average person is :)
I am also seeing when I am with others that's when I can compare and despair let myself feel less than re my limited close social circle.
I've made a decision I don't need to do this I can live my life in the comfortable way for me.
I seem to being going through a big period of acceptance about who I am, what I do or don't do and my expectations of self some based on perseved social conditioning.
I let go of my career last Yr and now receive disability benefits I'm v grateful for this support . I seem also to be letting go of the idea I need to push to get my next career or next big thing to make me something.
I have just been diagnosed with fibro /cfs my life is different today and that's OK.
Allowing myself to be who I am with cptsd, without cptsd... And all shades in between.
I'm feeling a freedom lately of accepting and actually loving myself in all my shades and colours.
I can live how I want to and that is more than OK!
I'm 46 and have worked hard all my life from the age of 14. Ive had 3 and different careers over the yrs and trained numerous times to get them.. Trained at university in my 30s.worked many part times jobs on top of study.
Worked long hours for years and was a responsible and caring citizen. Cared for others ++ and fought for some social standing.
And NOW its time for ME
I can be slacking I can be lazy I can be unresponsible for others. I can just be, I can not know, I can not strive, I can be dependent. I can be surrendered.
I can be silly I can be scruffy I can be quiet. I can be spontaneous I can be u spontaneous. I can have no agenda, no deadlines no time frames.
I can let of critical self appraisal and self analysis.
I can just be me in this body with this heart and this spirit just here just me just free.
Quote from: Boatsetsailrose on December 12, 2019, 08:10:20 PM
And NOW its time for ME
I can be slacking I can be lazy I can be unresponsible for others. I can just be, I can not know, I can not strive, I can be dependent. I can be surrendered.
I can be silly I can be scruffy I can be quiet. I can be spontaneous I can be u spontaneous. I can have no agenda, no deadlines no time frames.
I can let of critical self appraisal and self analysis.
I can just be me in this body with this heart and this spirit just here just me just free.
Yeeaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
:yeahthat:
I'm glad about this post. Thanks for the discussion. I feel the same about other people. It never feels really good to be with others, But it is hard to be this alone.
I don't have a job at the moment and sometimes I am very frightened to leave my flat. So I had weeks in which I didn't talk to anyone for days and that is really hard for me. I have this music group from church, and I tried to get in contact with the people there. Some were even nice and friendly, but I always have that feeling that I just can't connect to others. It always goes wrong in several ways.
People don't understand me and I can't really talk about it, I often have no words , I don't know how to express myself. And I had some problems with people, who started to be judgemental and unfair in that group. Even those who like me run out of patience somehow. I also feel ashamed very often and I even had to face feelings of rage and jealousy. It looks like I am not an easy-going person and I have lots of thoughts about it. Mostly, that I am wrong and just don't fit it. Low self-esteem.
I know this is an older thread but something happened yesterday that made me think a lot about this topic.
Human interactions enrich life when they:
- affirm our common humanity;
- make us see the beauty of being alive.
So many times, interacting with people, I feel I'm treated like a thing, worse, like dirt, used, thrown away, stepped on, ignored, denigrated. I feel ashamed being me, worse, I feel ashamed being part of the human race.
No, thank you, I don't need those kinds of human interactions. I'm much better off, surrounded by kind animals, beautiful flowers, or just alone.
Follow-up to Arale's comment:
:yeahthat:
Arale
Quote
So many times, interacting with people, I feel I'm treated like a thing, worse, like dirt, used, thrown away, stepped on, ignored, denigrated. I feel ashamed being me, worse, I feel ashamed being part of the human race.
That sounds like hard emotional content to deal with....
When I was getting triggered (it's so much less now) I can see I could project old stuff onto new situations /people...
Also where people were projecting their stuff onto me...
It's great today to have more choices who I interact /entertain... I'm really learning I am can say no, move away and not feel guilty... Horray!
I tweeted about this topic a couple of days ago and was amazed at the response; so many people tweeted it wasn't always mistrust/fear of others that they choose to be alone (although that is a big issue), but that there is also a healing aspect. Many of us have been so focused outwardly to protect ourselves, to survive, we lose track of who we are and need time and space to focus internally, and to let our nervous systems heal.
The tweets made me realize that not wanting to connect/be around others in real life much is not all about hiding away and isolating. It's also about having had too much stress/abuse/trauma and it is OK, perhaps healing even, to want quiet, calm, peace and alone time.
I have been reluctant to admit I enjoy being alone in some ways and I feel that a little less so now. I'm not saying mistrust, feeling different, threatened, awkward, triggered isn't part of why I prefer being alone, but it's not the only reason and I may be ignoring the healthier aspects.
With that said, I would like to find more places in real life that let me stay in my own skin and feel safe around others like I do here - maybe our Healing Porch? I haven't found it yet but I am beginning to look.
Kizzie
Quote
'Many of us have been so focused outwardly to protect ourselves, to survive, we lose track of who we are and need time and space to focus internally, and to let our nervous systems heal'
So so relate to this... Focusing internally
Kizzie where is the healing porch? I can't find it...
Here: https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=13015.msg97214#new :)
Thanks blueberry for the link...
What section of the forum is it under if I want to find it again.... I can't see
Community Corner / Creative expressions / Other
Tks for helping Boats out BB :hug:
So, I've attended two groups since we moved to our new home and both have not gone well. :sadno: One was a Complex Trauma group where the founder has covert NPD and I could not stay or go back. I wrote about that in others posts a couple of weeks or so ago.
The other was an online group for disordered eating. It was awesome in that it was facilitated by a therapist and really affordable ($80 for 8 group sessions). Alas I did not feel it was the right fit as I was the only one talking about trauma and eating. Mostly it was about using CBT to interrupt the thinking driving the eating/not eating and stay emotionally regulated but there was nothing about feelings - why we had the thoughts we did, why we had difficulty regulating our emotions, and why eating had become an issue for us in the first place. Not what I was hoping for or for that matter feel like I need right now. Also I was the only older participant, the rest were in their 20's and just beginning to look at their eating issues from what I could tell.
So to bring this back to Jazzy's OP, becasue of the two experiences I felt like I was sliding into that feeling that I do better alone again. Ironically it's CBT that helped raise me out of that a bit by challenging what I was thinking. It's not that I do much better alone, being here talking to all of you has been healthy and healing for me and for others, so connection is important. It's more about finding safer, slower ways/places to transition into feeling this same way in F2F situations.
I need safe F2F spaces (besides a therapists office) to start off in, somewhere I can relate to others like I do here, where I can talk about feelings and not feel odd, different, like I don't quite belong, where there is a group understanding of what I'm going through and respect, consideration and support for each other is paramount. Few of us have had that before and I think we need to experience more of that as we recover.
:grouphug:
I really appreciate this thread. I just discovered this forum, after beginning to read Pete Walker's book, Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving, and I deal a lot with this particular issue. Like some of the other respondents, I'm lonely as I write this; sitting in my car outside a McDonald's in a surprisingly beautiful place, using the WiFi, not quite able to choose any of the activities that would put me in contact with other people today, but also feeling the keen edge of loneliness and wishing I were feeling the warm surround of (safe) human connection.
Like one of the other respondents, I'm a member of a 12-step addiction fellowship, and I too struggle to feel a sense of belonging there. I came into the fellowship with the expectation—based on what I thought was a promise—of a safe space to share my feelings and experiences and be met with acceptance and compassion. I find that's rarely the case. When I share what's happening with me in meetings, the people who share after me often share at me, rather than speaking about their own experience. The sharing-at entails passively forceful encouragements for me to feel differently, or find a way to be or act different, or suggestions that I needn't feel that way or have that experience to begin with. That's disappointing and upsetting for me, and at times intensely angering. I guess I so need and long for the medicine of acceptance that it's at times intolerable to be offered what feels like poison instead.
I say poison, even though I believe the people in the fellowship are truly well meaning, because in my many years of experience with this disorder, I've learned that when I do meet true acceptance, it's remarkably healing and does for me all the things that folks who try to offer me consternation/advice mean to do for me but don't. For instance, the people sharing at me—and anyone else who attempts to nudge, pull or stretch me into a different place emotionally and functionally—are trying to get me to a place where I'm more stable and self-sufficient, and can do the things they can:
-not experience so much pain and overwhelm
-socialize normally
-hold down a long-term job without strain
-dress with more care
-not have so many conflicts with other people
-speak and act confidently and decisively
-etc., etc.
But when people attempt to nudge, pull or stretch me, the opposite effect is achieved. I tend to feel alienated and blamed, and sink into a kind of helpless internal shame and isolation. When someone can just sit with me and accept me, however, I'm suddenly capable of all the aforementioned things. It's almost miraculous—and because it took me so long to find anyone who could sit with and accept me, and for me to develop the capability to receive and respond to that, I didn't know it was possible. But now I know that even a drop of such acceptance can result in a huge change, not just emotional but physiological.
This is all to say that this feels like a complex issue, because it's not so simple as "I suck" or "Other people suck." (That's a binary I used to swing between, and still do sometimes.) Now I know that, on the one hand, I've done an incredible job with what I was given in this lifetime, and have rich experience and gifts to offer the world, and on the other hand, other people are also doing the best they can, even when they fail to understand or meet me. I finally realized that I'm not the same as most other people and the things that make sense and work for them truly don't for me; and they can't always be expected to understand that.
Part II
(I'm sorry for writing a lot, and I'll defer to the moderators; this is my first post and I guess I had a lot to share)
Sometimes I feel I've spent my whole life fighting people on the question of what I'm capable of, how I'm like everyone else—that it's a willful fantasy of mine that I'm limited—and how little I must be trying for my life to then be what it is. And every time someone suggests something like that, they think they're the first person who has.
And sometimes I feel other people should be able to get that, understand my experience and their own blind spots and limitations. Sometimes I feel that, as they have accused me of being, they are willfully ignorant, stubborn, antisocial, and making things difficult when they don't need to be 😆
But I'm finally beginning to build that understanding and care inside of myself, able to give it to myself—and that is huge. I'm also lucky to have a couple of close friends, though not near me geographically, who understand and accept me quite well.
It's just that—I'm still lonely. And I think it's tricky. Because it's not just my disorder fooling me; it is true that people generally don't know how to care for my particular (and real) differences, even when I try to teach them. The same way people used to (and still do) unskillfully and sometimes forcefully engage with autistic people.
I do continue to find beauty, hope and faith in the world, in myself, and in others. If I often feel like an emotional Helen Keller, it's promising that I'm learning to be my own Anne Sullivan. And I hope this journey will make me more tolerant of others and bring me into closer contact with community; good enough, safe, imperfect, fruitful. I had a residential community experience once before that was a revelation and salvation. It gives me hope I can find that again, or elements of it.
Thank you so much for all your shares.
Hi Lucy and welcome to OOTS :heythere: thanks for sharing about yourself and what this topic means to/for you.
QuoteI hope this journey will make me more tolerant of others and bring me into closer contact with community; good enough, safe, imperfect, fruitful.
I've been thinking a lot about what I would like in F2F group a lot over the last month or so (having had two recent experiences, that decidedly did
not work), and I've had some similar thoughts as you; it needs to be "good enough, safe, imperfect, fruitful".
Understandably my tolerance of imperfect relationships (which are the nature of relationships and that's difficult to accept) is low so a safe group would mean somewhere I can grow my tolerance for good enough relationships. That seems to be with others who have CPTSD (puts us all on the same page), are genuinely trying to do the same thing (learn about relationships and accept them as imperfect), and are willing to figure things out like me (fruitful).
I've written about thinking of starting a F2F group and have been thinking a video group is a good place to start. I think it would provide more of a sense of connection but without the risk/threat of being F2F in a physical location right from the get go. It's also less complicated than trying to find a meeting space. Part of the group might entail meeting up occasionally to do activities together though; have lunch, go for a walk, do some art, visit a museum/art gallery, whatever.
Guidelines for the group would be important - mainly how to ensure everyone does feel safe, heard, validated, supported and cared for. Your post helps me to think about what might work, but also what might
not work (i.e., nudging, pulling, stretching).
Anyway, it's a work in progress but an important one imo because we do all seem to feel the loneliness but have difficulty finding safe places and people to learn about connecting. Again, tks for your share. :thumbup:
Thanks for your reply, Kizzie, and I'm so glad my mega-post was stimulating and somewhat helpful to someone. Thanks for sharing your thoughts back. Your F2F group sounds like it's going to be a good one, I'm glad and personally inspired to hear you planning it :applause: :grouphug:
I know this is an old thread but thank you so much for creating it, I relate to so much of it and it's comforting to see that so many others do too. For me, I think I need human connection but it needs to be the right kind. Currently I'm quite content with being alone much of the time with my dog and husband (though admittedly not much choice there anyway at the moment!) and perhaps engaging with forums or a tiny bit of the more pleasant aspects of social media if I need a bit more than that. That's really all I feel I want right now though, as my mind is always full of healing work or working my way through emotional flashbacks, which is intense but necessary I think. I'm finally coming out of survival mode, learning the very basics of boundaries and my sense of self and really I'm very ill prepared for the level of social contact that's considered normal for most people.
I must admit, though on the whole I agree with them I do get a bit frustrated when mental health professionals stress the importance of positive mirroring from other people in order to heal. I mean, where exactly do you find these caring, non judgmental people in day to day situations?! They make it sound so easy but I often find that there is little explanation beyond the vague "reach out to others" and very little advice given on how to negotiate positive relationships with other people when you have a lot of fear and reservations about trusting others. Given my poor sense of self and current lack of skill in making boundaries I actually think before I throw myself into social situations I need to calm my nervous system down further and learn better self care, otherwise by entering social situations that I don't have the skills to cope with I'm just going to continue to feel like a duck out of water and panic. I'm so prone to being taken advantage of too and unless I have a better understanding of boundaries and what I am and am not willing to tolerate in social relationships I think I'll justcontinue to attract people who aren't good for me.
For so long I've felt like I shouldn't trust my gut feeling about social situations I'm not comfortable with and have just assumed that there must be something terribly wrong with me, that I'm a bad person and useless for not being more social. I think this is because my feelings were never listened to or validated growing up and I was always called "silly" or talked down to in the derogatory third person of "oh, she's just shy" when a social situation scared me. At the age of 3 my mum would dump me at playgroup thinking that leaving me there terrified and crying in a big room full of noisy children I didn't know would toughen me up (or some other flawed logic) but it never did and I hated it. I still feel like that 3 year old much of the time when faced with social situations and personally I think that if what feels socially normal and pleasant to other people doesn't work for us then we should perhaps look at what the inner child is telling us and try to reparent ourselves. I've ignored my feelings for so long thinking that the anxiety I feel is just "silly" but I'm starting to think that really it's my gut feeling telling me that I have unresolved trauma to process and need to work on myself a bit more before I can feel comfortable doing what comes naturally for others. And that's ok, most people haven't endured totalitarian parenting growing up and can't possibly understand the effect it has on a person. I think perhaps we need to have this distance from others to figure out what we should essentially have been lovingly taught from the beginning.
Quote from: Kizzie on February 06, 2020, 06:53:10 PMMany of us have been so focused outwardly to protect ourselves, to survive, we lose track of who we are and need time and space to focus internally, and to let our nervous systems heal.
I agree entirely Kizzie, I think we just need a bit of breathing space to work it out. When your amygdala hijacks your nervous system around other people then I think the priority needs to be calming down your entire nervous system so that panic doesn't overwhelm in the first instance. If you think about it, children from stable backgrounds with mentally healthy parents have the opportunity to practise all these new skills and develop a healthy sense of self in a safe-enough, protective environment, which is something we never had. I think withdrawing from other people is a boundary we might need while we're at our most vulnerable in order to develop a calm, non-judgmental environment with which to centre ourselves and reparent the inner child.