Out of the Storm

When deciding on a new Journal, I looked back at old Journals as usual. From earlier this year https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15014.30 which was useful to read. But I also looked for "beneficial" and came up with 3 previous Journals of mine and read in one: https://cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=8679.msg60768#msg60768  The following struck me particularly: Then it will be beneficial to do constructive activities that really help me move on. What these are will also vary, depending on whether i'm still stuck in an EF or already beginning to move out of it. There are some activities that are almost always beneficial and constructive to moving on: washing the dishes is one; conversing with my pets while I still had them was another. OK, good realisation. Keep in mind. But don't rush off to adopt more little furry creatures right now. Another one from spring to fall is going down into the garden and seeing what's growing. Smelling a nice scent. Moving my body, even if just stepping on the spot. I know it's good to go ahead and do one of these. If it doesn't work, try another. Don't give up.

Allow myself less beneficial activities e.g. playing Patience sometimes, but know that it's not such a mindful beneficial activity as say colouring (because the senses and creativity are not much involved). However, remember that blanket bans bring out a relatively young IC who is practised at self-destructive activities in the face of blanket bans from on high.

The second para is interesting. The first still hugely relevant.

So up to now I've had Beneficial and Constructive; Beneficial, Constructive and Mindful; Taking Those Beneficial Steps.
And now it's the Easiest, Most Beneficial and Constructive. Though up in the title line, I wrote 'concrete' instead of 'constructive' so I wonder what that's about?

When I'm sitting at the computer running my fingers through my hair and/or reading around on the news or any number of websites of which OOTS is by far the most beneficial for me, followed by photos of animals up to hijinks, followed by the month's best photos sent in by the public in one of my home countries, this is a sure sign that at least one Part of me needs something much different. This is a Journal to remind me of that, but also to point me in the direction of actually doing what that Part needs. Or at the very least doing something which is generally beneficial, which could be as simple as opening the window to let in sunshine and fresh air or looking out at the trees and really taking them in.

One beneficial activity I've been putting off for ages is to shower and wash my hair. I did actually shower a few days ago but didn't wash my hair. This may not be the easiest activity for me this evening, but it is time to go through with it. What are the benefits: I'll simply feel better afterwards, it'll be easier to go out of the house and go among other people knowing my hair isn't in an anti-social state, so I'll definitely notice things are EASIER afterwards and less exhausting, I'll get all warmed up in the shower since it's a little chilly this evening.

blueberry, sometimes less mindful activities such as playing Patience might be beneficial just to give your brain/mind a break for a while.  i've done it myself, like today.  playing computer games can relieve my mind, give it a chance to not think for a few hours, be involved in not thinking about the stuff that bothers me.

the other things you mentioned are beneficial in different ways, such as washing your hair and feeling better afterwards.  it's a chore i deal w/ 2x/week, same as showering.  just do what you can, what you want, when it feels best for you.  nothing wrong w/ that.  when you have the energy, the other things will fall into place.  you unconsciously know what's right at the moment. 

i don't mean to be encouraging you to not take care of yourself, whatever that might mean for you, just gently letting you know you're not alone and we do need to be kind to and gentle w/ ourselves as we go thru all this.  we do have c-ptsd, after all.  love and hugs :hug:

You're right san  :)  Thanks :hug:

And although I have been running my fingers through my hair tonight, it doesn't now seem to be because it's obvious that a particular Part needs to be doing something else. It's probably because of something I'm doing tomorrow that I'm a bit anxious about, but I can do more or less of that, as seems fit.

I have now washed my hair. And it was OK. But it hasn't stopped me running my fingers through my hair or suddenly made everything easy, so that's how I realise you're right, san. Yeah, we do have cptsd don't we? Wish we didn't, but we do. And unfortunately that makes a big difference, your T was right.

Blueberry, I appreciate your reflection and reasoning for choosing the name of this journal. 

What it reminded me of is how I keep hoping there is that "one thing" out there that will fall into place or that has been hidden in me that will resolve all the challenges I face. 

I recently read a post on social media from an Autistic group that talked about nurturing one's nature (in this case autistic nature) instead of "coping."  I was really drawn in by that idea.  I also wonder how we nurture CPTSD, show it care and see how that impacts our relationship with ourselves and with it.

Quote from: rainydiary on March 26, 2023, 02:59:59 AM
What it reminded me of is how I keep hoping there is that "one thing" out there that will fall into place or that has been hidden in me that will resolve all the challenges I face. 

Oh I sure get that! It's one of my hopes too. The "one thing" through which I'll be healed instead of the plod-plod-plod of activities, thoughts etc that keep me afloat and/or help me come unstuck.

With the title I actually mean as a regular reminder to myself so that I come unstuck and/or keep activated since i tend to freeze and do round about zero when certain things are tough. The easiest thing now. One thing for ever - that would be 'nice' but I think we wouldn't need OOTS if it existed!

Quote from: rainydiary on March 26, 2023, 02:59:59 AM
I recently read a post on social media from an Autistic group that talked about nurturing one's nature (in this case autistic nature) instead of "coping."  I was really drawn in by that idea.  I also wonder how we nurture CPTSD, show it care and see how that impacts our relationship with ourselves and with it.

That's an interesting idea. Maybe we nurture cptsd partially by accepting that we have it instead of trying to fight it?

_______________________

Some new thoughts last night / today: "beneficial" is something I often try and work towards and it fits because of its opposite - "self-destructive" which as been well-practised by me for decades. It would also work as a sub-title. A new title to honour changes irl could be Forging New Paths because that's what I'm striving for at the same time as realising that I often need to drop back to old, familiar ways for a while. I wrote quite a lot in my paper Journal yesterday about what those new paths could be. Partially the neural paths in trauma brain, partially physical paths in my new apartment which involve using the whole place instead of just select areas e.g. computer, bed. But then to also realise that - as happened this morning - trying to force myself to do new tasks or forge new paths when it is simply too early for at least one Part leads to a General Strike and I stay in bed / go back to bed / doze / do word puzzles. Then it's a mighty effort to lay word puzzles aside and GET UP as opposed to laying word puzzles aside and dozing off again or picking up a book I can lose myself in.

And although I think I shouldn't be on the computer too much (oh, there's that 'should' again) because it does kind of impede things like creativity or my simply getting involved with all 5 senses as in Beneficial for all Parts, otoh there are a number of activities on my To Do list which can certainly be done fairly efficiently via computer and telephone and these ought to be done by end of month, which is in just a few days. That will certainly help my Adult of Today feel good.

blueberry, sounds like you're looking at your situation from different perspectives now instead of remaining fixed in only one.  i see that as a sign of growth, moving forward.  my T once said this is a marathon, not a sprint, and it gave me a new perspective.  like rainy, i was hoping for that 'magic' piece that would click into place and have everything make sense, and bingo! no more problems. unfortunately, that's not the case w/ us, as you said.  i hope you can give yourself credit for the progress you've made.  i can see it even if you can't.

love and hugs  :hug:

Quote from: sanmagic7 on March 28, 2023, 11:57:05 AM
blueberry, sounds like you're looking at your situation from different perspectives now instead of remaining fixed in only one.  i see that as a sign of growth, moving forward. 

Oh, it is a sign of growth, you're absolutely right about that. Today after occup. T, I took one of my garden chairs and sat outside in the sun which also gave me a different perspective on the house I'm now living in. As well as something else I don't really have the words for - like an animal marking its territory. Except I'm not saying this is mine, I'm just giving myself the chance to get acquainted with different parts of the property, so more saying I have a right to use the garden too or I have a right to sit in the sun too. Nobody has said I didn't except undoubtedly some old trauma stuff makes this hard.

Thanks for giving me credit for progress made. My occup. T does that too. I sort of get it cognitively but it's still not coming through in my feelings, but I guess it will when I can allow it.

I collected some of my bulbs from their temporary spot in another garden and planted them out in the new garden in a spot where I can sort of see them from my kitchen window, though they're kind of far away, but I do like to be able to see my own flowers from my windows. I also did some weeding in other parts of the garden since new LL suggested I might like to do some general garden work. Edible weeds are sprouting! I figured I'd do some harvesting, but that also removes them from the flower bed and keeps those weeds in check a bit :) Win-win.

It's a bit chilly today but nice and warm in the sun. I cycled to occup. T, which I almost always do. Today I was only 10 mins. late which is really good by my standards atm. I used to be a reliable person but in that kind of sense I'm not anymore. I just can't. Today I had a lunch invitation and I was punctual, but I didn't think I was going to be, it just happened by accident so to speak.

My student isn't coming tomorrow because he's ill. Now that I'm not absolutely desperate for money because FOO has finally stepped up, it comes as a relief. There's enough for me to do otherwise e.g. finally get on with laundry instead of tidying tomorrow morning. Before it was always kind of a pain when my students were ill, or when I was. I no longer have my students on a contract. There are downsides to that, particularly financial, but otherwise it's mostly a relief and less stressful for me.

Just wanted to say I really agree with your quote.  I hate the word "should" myself. 

What do you teach your students?  Nice that you planted your flowers where you can see them. 

I teach English as a Second Language.

Today I'm kind of back to doing zero. Oh well. Although I know some stuff is churning around below the surface in the process of settling.

I copied the following over from my March 27th post: And although I think I shouldn't be on the computer too much (oh, there's that 'should' again) because it does kind of impede things like creativity or my simply getting involved with all 5 senses as in Beneficial for all Parts, otoh there are a number of activities on my To Do list which can certainly be done fairly efficiently via computer and telephone and these ought to be done by end of month, which is in just a few days. That will certainly help my Adult of Today feel good. 

I did do a fair bunch of that stuff yesterday. That's good, it was necessary. But it doesn't make any part of me feel good.

I decided to change the title of this whole Journal for a number of reasons I'm not going into atm. The only things I will say is that all the different ideas for titles possibly reflect something opening in me, some creativity going on AND I'm pretty sure they reflect OSDD, which I'm coming back to accept, embrace maybe even.

"Coming back to" because w/o knowing the diagnosis but feeling the symptoms, I was onto this years ago in healing but then was firmly encouraged out of it in one inpatient place and this encouragement had a long-lasting effect on me. But the inpatient place last year said the report from the other place was self-contradictory, which helped me feel better about myself and my recovery path. By the end of my stay last year my T was able to give me the definitive diagnosis OSDD (Other Specified Dissociative Disorders). 

 :hug:

Having the right diagnosis can be really important. I've pushed back against this too, especially afraid to acknowledge it for fear it would get worse, more obvious. But I too have finally let go of that in the hopes instead it will help.

Armee, quite a number of years ago mine seemed to be getting worse, at least that's what that inpatient place said back then. They said that's why more and more inner children and inner teens were cropping up but since they weren't real (duh, I knew that) and I definitely didn't have what was then Multiple Personality D. (DID now I think), I needed to get back in my Adult and basically forget the Inners. They also said I needed to do things for me, like if I wanted to colour in, then I should admit to myself that my Adult of today wanted to do that and not an Inner Child. Some of the therapists' objections in that inpatient place did make sense, but otoh swung too far the other way. Sometimes it definitely is an Inner Child or Teen that crops up and pushing them away and/or ignoring them is not helpful.

I did get on with some stuff yesterday and today that needed getting on with. Some of it admin stuff on computer/phone and some of it more householdy stuff using gadgets. The latter very difficult, I was very tentative and slow with my hands, so no wonder I've been putting it off. The admin stuff is easier but I also discovered I filled some forms in wrong last week, a type of forms I fill in regularly. So I can admit to myself that I'm kind of all over the place and that at least has something to do with the move. Emotionally I haven't yet arrived where I'm living and I certainly haven't found my new paths within my new apartment and round about.

Nevertheless I have made some progress, done some hands-on stuff ie. starting some tentative new routes. Roots could come later. But for now just routes.

Routes are a great start.  :grouphug:

 :applause: For the steps that you've taken and for listening to yourself and being kind.

Thank you Notalone :) especially for pointing out I'm being kind. I hadn't actually noticed.

Today a thought popped into my mind seemingly out of the blue: I'm good the way I am!
I said so in occup. T and am still thinking so.  :thumbup: :cheer:
That's big. Especially since I had the impulse in occup. T to say "despite xyz" but then didn't!

It's also a sign that a big new path is being forged in my brain and in my soul :cheer: 

QuoteI'm good the way I am!

lovelovelove this!  and i totally agree with it.  love and hugs, blueberry. :hug:

Quote from: Blueberry on April 04, 2023, 10:43:58 AM
I'm good the way I am!
I said so in occup. T and am still thinking so.  :thumbup: :cheer:
That's big. Especially since I had the impulse in occup. T to say "despite xyz" but then didn't!

It's also a sign that a big new path is being forged in my brain and in my soul :cheer:

That is big! 

:party:       :waveline:          :woohoo:

 :cheer:

That's huge! (And yes, you are)

Thank you all  :) :hug:

It's a little more difficult to believe today. Today I did almost zero - lay around in bed dozing and doing word puzzles. Have only begun to do things since it got dark. Yet I can think: "I'm not a bad person for having done more or less nothing. That is, my activity or lack thereof doesn't define my worth."

That's huge too, I realise now as I write.

_____________________

I almost went down the rabbit hole and wrote some things to an uncle in response to an email from a few years ago asking how I am. It is nice he asked and it's on me that I haven't responded yet, but still none of that means I need to bare my soul and be honest about it or anything other than superficially honest.

Recently I've been thinking about a quotation over on OOTF, which I've posted under Favourite Quotes on here so as not to have to search OOTF again:  Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage — prep beforehand and make time after to heal
It's an apt reminder to me atm. Especially since it reminds me to ask myself whether I need even have an interaction with e.g. a FOO mbr. A particular FOO mbr may or may not be PD but they're part of that whole dysfunctional FOO system and all my interactions with that results in damage to me.

i think that quote is spot on, blueberry.  i like it.

years before, when my D would take time off from her daily routine, she also had a lot of negativity towards herself.  i would tell her that those down times are times for healing.  just like weightlifters cannot do the same muscle set daily, for fear of overextension or tearing, so do we need those down times to heal.  please, be gentle w/ yourself, ok?  you need that as much as doing, doing, doing.

by the by, i, too, have been tempted to get in touch w/ others who have not been good for me.  my T told me that's also part of the grieving process.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you san for your support and for that information about the grieving process.

I no longer believe I'm good the way I am. But I do know that having had that realisation, I will be able to reach it at some point again. For now my ICr is having a field day. It's the middle of the night and I've been reading Holocaust writings and/or writings on survivors. It's useful for me as an escape. Used to be useful for other reasons too, but now not so much.

I hope the ICr eases up a bit.  I resonate with what you wrote.

Thank you rainy. It helps when somebody can resonate some way.

____________________________
I'm so angry at FOO.

 :cheer:

Anger at FOO is appropriate! Turn that anger to them instead of letting that iCr chew you up

Thanks, but I'm not sure how atm. Though you're right, anger at FOO is appropriate.

I took the anger and turned it into something productive for me, at least for a while. I unpacked some more things and put them away.

Then I wrote a very minor non-confrontative email to a FOO mbr and have since been zoning out reading/listening to holocaust survivor testimony and doing SH. tbh whatever I do atm I do SH too.

I came back on here to write a quotation from a holocaust survivor who was a child during those times. He said they had to leave their flat to go to the camps and since then the feeling of security disappeared because even if they later had roofs over their head the feeling that they belonged somewhere was lost forever. Because once the roof of your childhood is taken away, it's not the same anymore.

That's trauma. Obviously. But something about it speaks to me. Otherwise I wouldn't read these testimonies. It's poignant and it holds true for now though what traumatised most of us on here was something different. But still that early security was taken from us, or maybe it was never even there to begin with.

*** TW Holocaust***

Possibly this should be somewhere other than my Journal. But I'm not sure where.

Years ago when I first got heavily into reading testimonies of Holocaust survivors, after a while that would kick start me into getting going again because I'd think to myself that if they managed to get on with their lives after that deprivation and indescribable wordlessness, then I would be able to too. Iirc it would take hours or even days of reading, but I'd get there eventually. But that doesn't work for me now. Undoubtedly there was an element of 'should' in there, and 'should' doesn't work for me anymore.

But now I also see and sense and hear more of what these survivors went through. Possibly because I am better aware of the nuances of feeling than I used to be? idk.

One reason I have been reading and listening: so as not to feel my own pain bubbling up atm. And it is bubbling up.

One of the survivors said the only reason he survived the Holocaust as a child and was able to remain sane and go on to have his own family was the love of his mother that went so deep it accompanied him even after she had gone. I didn't feel that maternal love. People can say they were sure it was there or it was expressed in another form but I don't think or feel that it was.

Another survivor cried at particularly poignant parts of his own story, reminding me of the places where I have cried when telling of my past.

I think some other things too but I'm too tired to write and I also don't want to trigger anybody on here in any kind of way. I certainly don't want to lead to any kind of Holocaust discussion or denial or anything like that. Because I'm not denying it at all. Far from it.

It's hard to leave that up, what I've written in the past 2 posts on my Journal. But so far I'm leaving it.

The words in the testimonies remind me of the callousness of FOO. They knew what they were doing to me at least partially, they still know what they're doing and they don't care. So long as things run the way they want.

I'm glad you posted what you did, Blueberry. I found it helpful to read.

Thank you Armee.

Now I realise that I really need to a) get off the computer and b) re-ground. So I'm writing that to be accountable to myself.

There are things to write but. I can't somehow. Some of these things are just repeat repeat repeat. Same old same old. About me, about how I'm coping rn, or not. More not. To go  back to what I know - for me it's best to re-ground and I can do that partially by looking at the positive in my life. 'Look at' not 'think.'

3 Good Things today: I enjoyed reading parts of "Watership Down"; I got up eventually TWICE; I unpacked some more things and put them away, especially books.

Things I have Achieved today so far: got out of bed and took my first meds; unpacked some things; threw out some stuff; have made myself some tea and am drinking it; had some hard bread - tasted OK actually; wrote and sent an email; took my second meds; have swept up and thrown out some of the dust-bunny mess on the floor

Mindfulness: some visual - really looking at the buds developing on the tree below my kitchen window. They look like pale green very miniature cauliflowers (tho they aren't, they're something quite normal, on a quite normal tree); there is some other nature I've had my eye on today, like the daffodils over the way.

I don't think there are any new paths in there, but I tramped along old paths that I know are good for me. Delving into Holocaust stuff was probably not the best. Although some of the blackness and self-denial were already in my soul before yesterday and still are. e.g. I don't want to eat and don't much. This is a type of self-denial that is unhealthy for me, and it's not just about eating either. I know for myself and have no need to explain further here.

A 13yo visitor is coming in a couple of days. I remind myself that I tend to zone out before he comes. Although when he is actually here, it's good for me. He's not his M, who's one of my ex-friends, he's a separate person altogether.

So NTS 3 Good Things rn: my tea is hot going down my throat; I feel better sitting up straight; I like seeing the trees out the window

 
You've gone through a huge change. I'm proud of you just for hanging on, though I see what a struggle it is and how hard it has been to get up and do the basics. That's got to be really frustrating, I'm sorry.  :grouphug:

I hope your visit is not too stressful. Wow I remember when he was 10 or 11! I've been on here a long time!

 :yeahthat:  i agree.  keep going, blueberry.  your pace may not be anyone else's, but it is a pace and it counts.   love and hugs :hug:

 :cheer: for not only the positive things that you did for yourself today, but also for noticing. I'm proud of you too.

If my memory is correct, you wrote about a visit with a young person previously. Same person? I thought that the visit had gone well, again, if I'm remembering correctly.

Thank you everybody :)

Yes, you're right Not Alone, it's my godson who has been here before. His visits usually do work out. Twice I have been badly triggered, once at his parents' place when he was a lot smaller because I had a smell flashback and once somewhere else - but it was the whole constellation of his sibs and his M and him the second time.

But him alone at my place, that does usually work out somehow. Tbh now is not the best time but I wanted to offer him the chance because I haven't seen him for a while and knew I would be going back inpatient this year.

I still haven't showered or washed my hair or washed the dishes or brought up the dry laundry or made space for the chair that folds out into a single bed or found clean bedding. I have T tomorrow morning too, tho that might actually help me get on with some of above in advance e.g. washing my hair.

Today I found out: inpatient stay starting in 5 weeks. That is good, to state the obvious.

 :hug:

I'm glad to hear there's a start date for inpatient. That'll be a relief to have some help healing and getting through the day. I'm sorry Blueberry. I wish things werent so hard.  :grouphug:

i agree w/ armee, blueberry.  i so wish you didn't have to struggle w/ this the way you do.  so much, so terrible.  glad for you to have a start for inpatient again.  i know it's helped in the past.  sending lots of love and a hug filled w/ gentle kindness and caring, :hug:

Thank you Armee and san :hug: :hug:  It's such a big relief when I can go back inpatient again. I wish I didn't need it so often and so much, but I do.

Something I watched from Avaiya university yesterday helped me understand why it's so bad, so difficult.

Good Things Today: I did eventually shower and wash my hair; I aired the bathroom properly afterwards; cleaned shower walls and did some vacuuming in other rooms; I did all that early enough to be able to go to library and get some dvds for when my young visitor comes; did some food-shopping; did some other roaming around eg on Internet and how I could maybe entertain my visitor when he's here - got some ideas too.

I had a good visit from my godson. What a difference it makes having somebody around so I don't give up and go back to bed for the day! We did lots of stuff together. Suddenly realise how much variety and how many activities you can get in during 24 hours and/or during a visit of just over 2 days.

I remember a good number of years ago when he was quite small, his mother said in some context or other that I love him and so xyz. I didn't say anything to her of course but wrote on here that I wasn't so sure about that because I couldn't feel love. Luckily a mbr wrote that I care about him and that's enough. But today I felt love in me towards him when he was sitting at the table eating and I was finished and just looking at him. That feels like progress - being able to feel love towards one of the children in my life. It was a pleasant emotion too, rising up in me and spreading outwards and even extending to his mother. For those mbrs who have often read my posts, they may remember that his mother and I had a major falling out so it's not that obvious that the feeling of love would spread to her too. It doesn't mean were good friends again or that trust and openness etc are coming back but more loving her son seems to mean that I can send her good feelings and in so doing cut out criticisms of her in my head. There's that old proverb "Where you plant a rose, a thistle cannot grow." That's what fits my feelings here. It might not stay that way, might not always be the case, especially not for all Parts but atm that's the way it is. :applause:

Unfortunately I slipped on the floor and fell a couple of days ago and sprained my ankle, just a few hours before my godson came. I was getting things ready for his visit, in a hurry, not really paying attention and Wham landed awkwardly on the floor. I didn't notice till a number of hours later that it was a little problematic and yesterday worse. Yesterday evening I no longer pushed through with what my godson and I had planned. It did take me a bit of thinking and resolve and so on, but I did then go through with the self-care of not worsening my ankle, foot and rest of leg.  :applause:  I talked to my godson and offered alternatives and that all worked out well. He's 13 now and I can remember fairly well how it felt to visit relatives or friends of family when I was that age, including one great aunt I'd never visited before and hadn't seen in person for 4 years. None of that is triggering me, it's just that I'm remembering overnight visits to older family mbrs when I was on my own.

With some of the memories come realisations like one grandmother always required me in the kitchen when she was cooking but she didn't need my help and/or couldn't delegate. Occasionally I was meant to stir something in a saucepan but then she would always adjust where the saucepan was sitting on the ring because it was hanging over the edge by a millimetre and then I'd notice it was hanging a millimetre over on the other side. As an adult now I can almost laugh at the ridiculousness of it but not at the time! I felt useless - had to be there as granddaughter (my brothers being boys didn't) but the only 'cooking' I could do was stirring and even that I didn't do well enough. And then there were odd jobs like getting the plates out of the cupboard and setting the table of course. Meal preparation with my other grandmother was different. She actually often preferred to be on her own in the kitchen. I would ask if I could do anything and often she declined, but in a friendly way. She was like that with other adults too, like with my parents and aunts and uncles. But sometimes I helped in the kitchen and there was never this micro-managing going on. Same with other ways I helped, like buying a loaf of bread. I'd ask in advance what type and she'd say I could choose and I knew I wouldn't go back to her house and be criticised for buying the wrong type. My godson helps a lot with meal prep  - like chopping up fruit and veg. He just does it too, doesn't have to ask about how and so on (unlike me :'( due to stuff in my childhood), but I - unlike the one grandmother - am quite OK with him going off and doing his own thing for 5-10 minutes while I do some stuff in the kitchen on my own. Now I know what it is: I don't need an audience/spectators. The one grandmother needed that. She couldn't somehow deal with me reading or even doing my homework while she was busy working, although she didn't actually have any work to give me. I was just meant to stand uselessly in the kitchen. I don't know but I think it might have been some type of resentment - here I am standing working while my young granddaughter does 'nothing'. Anyway I don't have those types of feelings towards my godson. If I had them, it might be a younger Part feeling abandoned to working on her own. But fortunately it's not even the case. Last time my godson visited, I think I was more nervous and nagging, though I didn't want to, but 12 yo racing along on scooter (or maybe bicycle I can' honestly remember) in various types of traffic situations was a little hair-raising - not just about his safety but also other people's e.g. in pedestrian precinct. None of that was a problem, partly because he's older but I also felt partly more relaxed and less hypervigilant :cheer:

New paths are being forged :)  And some old paths are being re-opened e.g. cooking again.

Three Good Things today:

I eventually got up, took my meds, had brunch (at home) including tea

I spontaneously did some tidying in the kitchen and floor-sweeping in various rooms

Looking out my windows - at birds in the trees over the road, at the leaves slowly unfurling on trees behind the house, at the fountain burbling away also across the road

 :hug:

wow!  so great, blueberry!  sorry about the sprained ankle, but i felt wonderful at the thought that you could feel love toward your godson.  it's the best feeling, i think, and i'm so glad you were able to experience it with him.  yay!!!

well done for your 3 good things.  looking out the window got to me - i'm a nature lover, and as i'm writing i can hear robins singing and for some reason it's comforting.  it's like, look, something's going right. 

you're doing what you can, what you need to do, and i give you all kinds of credit for that.  love and hugs :hug:

Thanks for your validation, san.

At least one new path: I'm doing a little better with spontaneously cleaning this or that in my new apartment, or tidying in some spot or putting stuff away.
I also sometimes feel less exhausted when I look at e.g. a rug and realise it needs to be vacuumed.

These two things are both big :cheer:

In occupational therapy I'm learning how to use my smartphone - very basic functions like charging, taking a photo, navigating the smartphone (as opposed to navigating with the smartphone) - pressing the right button, getting onto W-LAN etc. This is big progress too because anytime anybody has tried to teach me before, my brain would freeze and that would be it - nothing would be possible.

My feet and legs are no longer in such a bad state.

On the downside, I'm eating a lot atm, as a crutch. And my own particular brand of SH.

well, then, let me cheer alongside you for those 2 things  :cheer:.  well done, blueberry.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you san :hug:  Reading other people's journals atm including yours san and I feel incapable of responding. I suppose that will come back some time.

Later today I was able to keep going with coming back inside and putting stuff away instead of leaving on the floor.  :cheer:

I also took a walk because I felt that was what I wanted to do. I combined that with running errands. It was good to do both, but especially good to act on the impulse to go for a walk, be outside, pass trees and bushes, going slowly (or at least slower than on a bike) and my impulse was definitely to walk not cycle.

I have now been whiling away my time on the computer though mostly not on OOTS. Actually there are a few missives due to various different FOO mbrs, some of which I'd like to do before I go inpatient, but this evening was again a time when I didn't start writing far less post these letters and/or email. It's difficult.

 :heythere:Blueberry,

I can so relate to your postings. I too struggle with getting things done.  I'm just too depressed and tired to do much.

I admire your progress and your efforts especially after your move, new place and everything else going on.    It's good to celebrate getting stuff done.

I really understand and relate to not l feeling able to respond.  As you say it will come back some time.  We each can only do what we can do. 

Please know that you are valued and accepted just as you are today. 

:hug: to you Blueberry  :hug:

Thank you so much for your validation and kind words, Moondance :hug:

I went to evening church service, where our choir director plays the organ but there isn't usually a choir service. There wasn't this evening either, but there was a rehearsal afterwards for a service on Sunday morning, which I didn't find out about till I was there. I'm glad I went because both the normal church service and the rehearsal did me good, since singing God's words does me good. (But I don't always do what does me good - tend to get stuck exhausted at home e.g. instead). Now I have a particular hymn running through my head  :)    Now I have more impetus to set up my keyboard and start using it again! I do know most of the hymns we're singing, but there are a couple I don't. I was still impressed at how I managed to sing along anyway.  :cheer:

This morning I did a good amount of cleaning by my standards :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:  and some other housework too eg. laundry into the garden to dry, and some tidying. I also put away some stuff from my move. And then I even had a shower and washed my hair. I noted how much I was putting it off, always finding something else to do. We worked on it in the last psychotherapy appt and I knew to go through with it and point out to an Inner Ch. how things are different now - different from baths/showers in my childhood and in previous apts. I'm not sure in the end how much I pointed out so that might be a task for next time, in fact probably.

I had one student to teach in the afternoon and by the time it was close to her time, I felt briefly too exhausted to even prepare. But that was gone soon and I prepared fast and taught well :thumbup: :applause: :)

Cheering with you and for you

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Thank you Moondance :) :hug:

New paths: Since I moved my eating habits have been shakey: no proper meals, lots of sweet stuff or just bread and cheese. Things that used to be staples no longer are. Haven't cooked any vegetables for weeks, not even before my move. What I have been doing now for maybe a week is buy little punnets of tomatoes and fruit and am eating these. It's certainly not the season for tomatoes round here, but I'm really lowering the bar for myself. It's more important to use whatever methods to get me eating veg again than worry about ecological footprint etc. This is a new path. Possibly temporary.

 :hug:

Way to find a way to eat some produce and get that inner critic out of the way for now.

I have a number of emails to write, mostly to FOO, but a few others which are proving difficult too.
I generally had a good day today. It's nice to have a good day sometimes and not throw a spanner in the works by then going and writing difficult emails. Idk whether I'll feel like it tomorrow either. Probably not.

I hope the words for the emails come when they are ready to.

Thank you rainy, that's a good wish.  :)

Blueberry, I don't know if this is a helpful thing to say, but just doing what you feel capable of is doing a good job. You are doing a good job. Doing things the way you need to right now is not a set back or a detour. Sometimes when we slow down, and as you said lower the bar, it's the right thing. Sometimes we tie our self-worth to our productivity, and it's unfair. We are worth it.

Thank you Bermuda, that is helpful.

I want to write these emails, but for the non-FOO ones it's maybe too early or just not urgent. And merely considering writing the FOO ones is on the verge of retraumatising. So I don't write them. Zoned out most of the day. And ate. And stuff like that.  :thumbdown:

But I also collected the freight bike and moved the rest of my plants to the new garden, had a long chat with 2 separate people and enjoyed looking at flowers as well as cycling past a little river and watching ducks waddling around.

Some good things today:
I allowed myself to get the bus to my appt instead of forcing myself to cycle in the pouring rain when I felt too exhausted to cycle anyway

I watched one of the films I borrowed from the library when my young visitor was here. I got a selection and we didn't watch all of them. So today I watched one about dolphins that was based on a true story.

___________________
These things are not so healthy:
Bad eating habits today, led to stomach ache and couldn't-be-bothered going to choir practice, so didn't.

BB, I'm glad the bus worked out and you honored your body.  I often eat to the point of stomachache and hope that feels better soon.

Hi Blueberry,
I've not been around so much lately, but I have read things now and again here, and wanted to say that I hope you're settling into your new home.  I'm sorry to hear about your stomach ache and hope you feel better soon.
Sending you a hug,  :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you both rainy and Hope. It feels nice to get compassion on having stomachache knowing that some other people might say it was my own fault. It's better now, it was better yesterday too.  :hug: :hug: to both of you, Hope and rainy.

I bought myself some fruit and vegetables yesterday. Plus some not-so-healthy stuff. At least I've been eating my carrots. Last time I bought carrots, I didn't eat them. They reminded me too much of feeding veg to my furbabies.

Today I have quite a lot to do. I had a doc appt and did go, I was even punctual. For the past couple of days, I just want to lie in bed and read and I do quite a bit of that and then fall asleep.

I'm glad that your visit with your godson went well.

Thank you Not Alone :hug:

____

I need to write an email to FOO. Earlier - since about Wed actually - I needed to get some information for FOO. Just done that half an hour ago. It's amazing in a negative sense how that kind of necessity throws me under for days, so I do round about zero beneficial stuff and all sorts of non-beneficial stuff which means eating too much and/or not eating, not getting out of bed, reading and dozing, even gone back to reading and researching Holocaust again. Today I dragged myself out of bed in the late afternoon because I had one student to teach.

Good things today:
I had a salad for supper; I picked some dandelions and put them in a vase; I have some other flowers in vases already; the magnolia in the front garden is blooming; elsewhere in town masses of daffodils are still blooming; some bushes are blooming and I can smell the nice scents when I cycle past; I taught fairly well; once I was on my bike to run that errand (getting information), I enjoyed my cycle; it was forecast to rain but it didnt, at least not while I was cycling; I remembered to air my office.

:hug:

Those emails are very very difficult for good reason. Take gentle care while it hangs over your head. Your salad and dandelions and bike ride sound lovely.

 :wave: Blueberry,

"Just done that half an hour ago. It's amazing in a negative sense how that kind of necessity throws me under for days, so I do round about zero beneficial stuff and all sorts of non-beneficial stuff which means eating too much and/or not eating, not getting out of bed"

Yep  :yeahthat: that rings true for me too.

Good for you for looking/seeing the good in your day. I admire that about you.

:hug:

Quote from: Armee on April 28, 2023, 07:18:23 PM


:hug:

Those emails are very very difficult for good reason.

They are indeed.
From over at OOTF: "Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage — prep beforehand and make time after to heal", it's in mbr Spring Butterfly's signature.

Thank you for your care, Armee :hug:

Quote from: Moondance on April 28, 2023, 07:45:44 PM
:wave: Blueberry,

"Just done that half an hour ago. It's amazing in a negative sense how that kind of necessity throws me under for days, so I do round about zero beneficial stuff and all sorts of non-beneficial stuff which means eating too much and/or not eating, not getting out of bed"

Yep  :yeahthat: that rings true for me too.

Good for you for looking/seeing the good in your day. I admire that about you.

:hug:

I'm sorry you experience this too Moondance.  :hug:

I practised looking for the good in my day for months, years ago that was. I wrote a Book of (My) Daily Joys. I got to know what really awakens joy in me - things like nature, especially flowers. Lots of other stuff too, but atm for whatever reason flowers are among the most accessible.

Gentle hugs, Blueberry. My own yard has some little dandelions. I'm grateful the landlord's lawn service doesn't go to the detail of digging them up, and they're too short to mow. We have a large lilac bush outside the front window.  I love that scent when I'm getting the mail. (also, I love your Joy Book idea!)

i'm with you on the flowers thing, blueberry.  my happy place is our balcony where my garden in pots grows, and just 2 days ago a rescued plant sprung flowers and it made me feel so good.  i'm also enjoying those spring flowers around here, too, and the cherry trees are tremendous!

i, too, have had to take major time to recover when dealing w/ people i know are not good for me.  you're not alone in this, no matter what our recovery looks like.  please, be gentle w/ yourself as much as possible while going thru your recovery process.  they've already injected us w/ enough damage.  love and hugs

I was up all hours yesterday so spent most of the day in bed, dozing and reading. My ICr didn't actually have a field day (which is progress!) but did mention a few points, which I won't bother repeating here.

I knew it could be a good idea to go out and just look at my garden and then maybe that would get me doing something in it too. But I didn't. I enjoyed the sun shining into my apt in the evening. I did look out the windows and I spoke to 3 friends.

No replies from my sibs, which is good in its way of course.

Some more progress: Often, especially when I had some dealings with FOO, SIL2 would be in my head. Now she's not. If anybody is, then B1 and B2. That's progress because it seems now that I've finally written some of my home truths, I'm no longer allowing myself to be diverted. B2 was cleverly using SIL2 (undoubtedly she was in on the plan) to retain his GC role. SIL2 was generally the one who said and did things... and my anger and hurt would be diverted onto her. And now that I've actually expressed some of that anger to those FOO mbrs who needed to hear it imo, SIL2 is not taking up rent-free space in my head.

That is awesome Blueberry.  That must feel pretty good.

I celebrate with you on your progresses over the past couple of days.

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Thank you Moondance :) 

I haven't been forging any new paths today but I have been strengthening healthy but neglected ones: I was out in the garden again working. I did some yesterday too but otherwise I've been putting that off for aaaages. Even though I know it does me good. But now I'm back on it.

blueberry, so glad to hear you were able to get back into the garden again.  it's a soul feeder, at least to my mind.  i think strengthening healthy paths is wonderful.  good for you.  :thumbup:  love and hugs :hug:

It feels so good when we are able to clear out the people who don't deserve to take up space in our brain. So proud of you for speaking up to your FOO. I know how very hard that has been. It seems like it is getting a little easier each time, and that you are recovering a little faster too.  :grouphug:

Thank you Armee, especially for telling me it's getting a little easier each time and that I'm recovering faster. Now that I really think about it, I am. You're right.

Yesterday I decided to "get my act together" and wrote out my Highly Recommended/Could list for today and tomorrow. Highly Recommended for today was to stay up (once I got up). That sure didn't work out, I went straight back to bed after my first meds. On the Coulds I had "avoid Internet" except to send a specific email. I might have stayed up if I hadn't had "avoid Internet" on my Could list. Armee, your post helped me see that I'm expecting way too much of myself atm.

Thanks san for cheering me on, especially about the garden.  :grouphug:
:grouphug:

Three Good Things today:

I prepared for and taught my student
My foot is eased by the bandage I put on yesterday
I went down into the garden briefly in the sunshine.

Otherwise it's depression with a capital D.

I've done a bit more today and it's not even evening yet.

LL was here yesterday mowing the lawn. He's a much more careful worker than I am. Everything has to be just so and the lawnmower carefully cleaned afterwards etc. He saw where I had been doing some weeding and helpfully pointed out that some had grown back. It hadn't actually, that was where I'd given up and gone to do something else. Unfortunately that's how I work - a bit here, a bit there. Better than nothing at all I figure. It is one of my problems though, I admit that and admitted it to LL too.

There were some other things I wanted to write but I feel blocked now, don't want to write them after all. Maybe later, maybe tomorrow.

  :cheer: way to go Blueberry! It's how I work, too. And you are right better than not starting at all. Good job weeding and teaching and being up. Period.

Thank you Armee for validating and cheering me on  :hug:   Good to know I'm not the only person who works like that.

I wrote this in another mbr's Journal very recently:
Most important is stabilisation. In fact, in my country that's the mantra for healing from cptsd: stabilisation, stabilisation, stabilisation, look at something, process a little, stabilisation, stabilisation, stabilisation, look a bit further or look at something else, process, stabilisation, stabilisation, stabilisation,... and then integration starts happening and maybe growth in a form that you can see for yourself.

I realised today how apt it continues to be for me. I haven't looked at something so much as confronted FOO mbrs with a few home truths. But I still need to do stabilisation, stabilisation, stabilisation afterwards. This stabilisation looks a little different than in previous years or back when I was generally less well. Then I might not have been able to do something fun for instance, whereas this evening I did. I was at a comedy/concert evening. I got dressed up a little to go and noted that felt good. I also saw people there I knew and chatted a bit in the intermission, which also did me good. NTS I'm pretty sure I'm in integration/growth stage but after heavy stuff definitely need to go back to stabilisation.

What I might have written earlier but blocked on was something from ICr. a bit I think. Atm I'd say it's better for me to focus on the fact that I decided to leave home this evening and go to the comedy/concert and feel better now than when criticisms of myself were going through my head.

I know I've mentioned that on here before but NTS there's this thing called 'getting-better-is-contagious'. Meaning I move from one strengthening/stabilising activity to the next. They build on each other.

I came on here to write for me but have already read a few other posts. Just dragged myself away. So either it's not easy to prioritise myself or it's not easy to prioritise the steps I want to take. I think the latter, so I do something like reading other posts to put off writing about difficult realisations.

Yesterday I wrote on here: NTS I'm pretty sure I'm in integration/growth stage but after heavy stuff definitely need to go back to stabilisation. Now a few things tell me I'm pretty sure I'm still in the processing-then-back-to-stabilisation phase. Why do I think that? Something Bermuda wrote in a post:  There was a time for me too when these things would not have even been possible. I can't even imagine life like that anymore. I wouldn't have been able to perform the tasks necessary to even submit myself to a program let alone show up.   Well, I'm still at the stage having a lot of trouble performing the necessary tasks for almost anything plus incapable of showing up regularly. So that was the first clue.

Second clue today: I knew I really needed a shower and esp. hair-wash before my student came. Put that off as long as possible by a) not getting up and then b) doing other things - emailing, gardening, cleaning in that order. I needed to clean really badly too but even that seems easier than shower/hair wash. Well, I noticed this particular time showering how much anxiety I have around the whole process. This time the water temp. regulation didn't go so well and that really upped my anxiety. Nothing bad happened, I didn't burn myself but I have a little Blueberry who doesn't want to shower because "cold", which has to do with past stuff. So when cold water unexpectedly touched my skin, I felt a brief Freeze everytime and/or a little internal jump. NTS writing that out isn't helpful, it just puts at least one BB back thru it w/o doing any healing.

Also today I took longer to write an email to friends than would be 'normal' for other people, which just reminds me how difficult day-to-day life is. And then after teaching when I was really hungry, I notice how anxiety-causing even cooking the simplest of hot meals is for me. No wonder I've been putting that off for days/weeks too. I did talk to an I.Child about me being in charge and she could join in or watch but no fear, no worries, because I am in charge. That didn't calm her down. She was sceptical, got balshy and didn't believe a thing about me being capable and in charge. While writing that I remember my own M used to complain that I was so distrustful, so presume it's that I.Ch. Trying to react better towards her than my M did, but often I just go blank. So the situation is not resolved.

All of the above tells me that I have come a long way, but still a lot of struggling going on. And no wonder I don't want to get up when I know deep down somewhere that the things I keep putting off actually still are very difficult, even still giving rise to Freeze. And these things are just day-to-day stuff. I can choose not to do them till I'm feeling better, but then again sometimes I need to just go and do them e.g. hair wash because otherwise I avoid people, eventually when I know it's really overdue.

A big NTS though: vacuuming is no longer so exhausting. It's even kind of satisfying, so I could try and do that a little more often aka could attempt not to put that off.

I can so relate Blueberry

:bighug:

Thank you for your validation, Moondance  :bighug:

I was going to write in my post last night that I didn't think I was in an EF. I didn't really sleep much last night, but I did a tiny bit of EFT (just tapping the crown of my head w/o even really much of a sentence), started yawning like crazy. I've now been up for 1.5 hours and have been getting on with stuff. Feels good. It's easier than it was yesterday or has been for a while in fact, so I think I must have been in an EF.

What I'm going to write now is difficult for me. Yesterday I wanted to write either that I wasn't in an EF or wasn't triggered because my still-trauma-T suggested fairly recently that something I labelled a retraumatisation or maybe traumatising, I can't remember exactly - might have been old LL and all that mess - wasn't actually (re-)traumatising because I'm no longer completely helpless at the hands of people like LL the way I was in childhood. Wanting to write I wasn't in an EF or wasn't triggered in that context sounds to me like a 'should' statement. I shouldn't be that way, shouldn't still react that way or at the very least I shouldn't label it that way. But maybe I'm just noticing that my still-trauma-T is not 100% perfect or not 110% perfect, that maybe he occasionally misjudges something or had some other reason to make that comment in that particular situation? His remark didn't bowl me over the way it might with a newish T and I don't even think I'm really critical of him, or at least that's not what I'm aiming for with this post. It's more allowing myself to have a different opinion from somebody I trust and somebody who has helped me a lot, and it's still OK. I don't have to devalidate everything this person has ever done or said, the way I learned in FOO and which I'm probably still not completely over. But at least this is a step on the healing journey. I can feel that this having-a-different opinion-and-it's-not-OK is based on fear, which makes a ton of sense the way I grew up in FOO.

Just as an aside: That's a long paragraph. I often have trouble figuring out where to make a break these days because everything seems connected to me and there's no natural place for a break, if that makes sense.

I'm on the way up again, which is cool!

I'd organised for a professional handyman to come today and put hooks and shelving up and that kind of thing. Now I can unpack more, especially books. One kitchen worktop is less cluttered because now all my packets of tea are on their own little shelf on the wall  :)

I appreciate you sharing about using the handyman.  When I move into my new house, my hope is to build a network of professionals and let some people take some things off my plate from time to time (like a cleaner coming to help me clean every now and then).  It's hard to seek that help for me, but I think it would help a lot.

Great job Blueberry! Im so glad you have a period of time of energy to unpack and settle in.  :grouphug:

Quote from: rainydiary on May 11, 2023, 02:31:11 AM
It's hard to seek that help for me, but I think it would help a lot.

It used to be very hard for me to spend money for this type of thing. Even way back when I had a regular and good income. I allowed myself some help through LETS (time-share points-based system), but for money? No way. I wasn't stingy I don't think, after all I gave money to charity and I gave nice presents, and sometimes I bought myself expensive things e.g. I wouldn't normally have bought myself a second-hand bike back then, I bought myself a good new one and good equipment, some of which I still have. I bought organic and where possible fair-trade food, but money on getting help setting up?? No.

Because of having trauma in my hands, handy man / handy woman type work is very, very hard and utterly exhausting. So I lived fairly un-set up. Even banging a nail into the wall to hang a picture up was a no-go. Sticking pictures or postcards up with tape was utterly exhausting to the point of having to lie down and sleep for several hours afterwards. I suppose it was an EF though at that time I actually felt quite good about myself (compared to childhood/teenage years) and didn't even know I had depression (because I was comparing that with what I had in childhood/teenage years, which obviously wasn't just depression but ongoing traumatisation and pretty constant Freeze), and I obviously didn't know about EFs or trauma or cptsd.

In the place I just left, where I lived for 17 years, I got professional help with various things after about 10 years. Things like additional hooks in my entrance way so that all my 'clobber' of bike bags, rucksacks, shopping bags, bike helmet could be stored somewhere other than the floor! Things like banging a nail into the wall to hang up a picture became possible for me bit by bit - therapy was showing its progress!  It was real progress and I'd praise myself and/or Inner Ch. In occupational therapy back then I made a wooden board I had hanging around the place into an additional shelf for a cupboard in my entrance way. I still have it and use it :)  I borrowed a type of power saw from a friend and improved on my guinea pigs' accommodation. By removing some extraneous sides, they got more light and it was easier for me to see them side-on. That was very big progress because machines near hands are very scary and machine noises are scary too. It's also very big progress when either I carry out a change I've had in my mind for a while or I pay somebody else to do it.  :cheer:

rainy, I think setting up a network of professionals to help is a great idea! I hope you can do that :)  Unlike me, you're working professionally F/T I presume or almost F/T whereas I'm working professionally about 4-5 hrs a week and am taking the time for therapy steps. That includes just seeing where things take me. In my old place, a friend cleaned the basics for me most weeks. She doesn't now and I'm getting better at doing it on my own :cheer:  Some stuff just doesn't get done, or not yet, and that's just the way it is.

Armee, yes, it's really good having this period of time to unpack, settle in and just see where things take me. Before I moved I hoped that cleaning and keeping things tidy might be easier in my new place, but I didn't know for sure that would be the case. It's developing that way bit by bit. I'm surprised though how much dirt and dust turns up w/o having guinea pigs! I always thought I had so much because of them. Apparently not. Well, my particular brand of SH doesn't help.

I suppose I have this period of time because I decided I need it. I decided some time ago - can't even remember when exactly that I was giving up the one type of professional work for a set amount of time and now it's quite obvious for me that I'm extending that by a further 6 months at least. I think it's quite possible I'll never go back to it. Teaching/tutoring I'm still doing a little of but it's equally obvious to me that the main and most important use of my time and energy is steps in recovery. This includes taking and having time to feel. Even while writing this I've been doing some feeling, e.g. it was hard to write the bit about the power saw. I felt the fear again in my gut and even in my throat. I know it's some really old fear that may or may not be connected to the saw, dangerous as that type of tool could potentially be and certainly would have seemed to me as a small child.

It's also becoming obvious to me that I'm not leaping into volunteer work. Because I need this time for me! Not for other people. My still-trauma-T waited a long time for me to finally get this! It involves me giving something up and allowing myself a time of limbo for something to come naturally, organically as it were in its place rather than leaping into something else to fill that space. That would be volunteer work - to help somebody else. Whereas here it's making time for my own process. Not that I can't be helpful to somebody or occasionally do a couple of hours volunteer work or just 5 minutes in passing, but with an awareness of what I'm doing and why and whether it's draining me.

you know, blueberry, i think it was good to discover you might disagree w/ someone you trust, and the relationship as a whole does not need to be thrown out.  as far as the new LL and the old LL stuff goes, i think it's ok for you to feel about it like you do.  your new LL sounds like a bit of a controller, and i have a difficult time being around those types of people.  like you, i don't always do one thing to the end, but rather go from this and that to the other.  sounds like new LL doesn't do that and automatically assumes everyone else doesn't or shouldn't.  that's where i'd place that 'should' - w/ the new LL.

which, if we grew up w/ a lot of 'shoulds' can be very triggering.  trust yourself, blueberry.  you know the dynamics of that kind of life.  love and hugs :hug:

I copied this word-for-word from Kizzie's Journal because I want it in my Journal. Thanks Kizzie! I will come back to it and write my thoughts on it another day.

Kizzie: I was just re-reading an article about N parents and it helped me to understand why I don't want to go visit my NM who has terminal cancer before she dies.  She is a covert or stealth N who has made it her quest to be perceived as the good, best really mother, wife, sister, aunt, friend.... and she has fooled a lot of people. I am so afraid of going to see her and having this erasure of abuse as described below happen to me.  I know it happened, but it is so terribly painful that others do not.

This form of secondary gaslighting and invalidation is incredibly painful, especially when it comes from the very professionals, friends and family members who are meant to help support the survivor on their healing journey. Not only does secondary gaslighting from other people further isolate the survivor, it actually hinders the healing process. I cant tell you the number of times a survivor has reached out to me to tell me the painful effects of being invalidated by a friend, a family member, a spiritual leader or even a therapist who dispensed ill-informed, sometimes even victim-blaming ideas.

This also contributes to a global Gaslighting Effect in which speaking out about abuse by covert manipulators is met with some form of backlash, victim-blaming, and victim-shaming by enablers of abusers and abusers themselves.Survivor Ariel Leve explains that this form of secondary gaslighting in incredibly traumatic to the survivor. As she says, "It wasn't just that my reality was canceled, but that my perception of reality was overwritten...it wasn't the loudest and scariest explosions that caused the most damage. It wasn't the physical violence or the verbal abuse or the lack of boundaries and inappropriate behavior. What did the real damage was the denial that these incidents ever occurred...the erasure of the abuse was worse than the abuse."

    Arabi, S. (2018) https://blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2018/10/gaslighting-survivors-of-narcissists-and-narcissistic-abuse/#.XHvUb3hryo0.twitter How Society Gaslights Survivors of Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Psychopaths (A Guide for Therapists, Law Enforcement and Loved Ones)

Quote from: sanmagic7 on May 11, 2023, 10:22:35 PM
you know, blueberry, i think it was good to discover you might disagree w/ someone you trust, and the relationship as a whole does not need to be thrown out. 

Totally!

Quote from: sanmagic7 on May 11, 2023, 10:22:35 PM
Your new LL sounds like a bit of a controller, and i have a difficult time being around those types of people.  like you, i don't always do one thing to the end, but rather go from this and that to the other.  sounds like new LL doesn't do that and automatically assumes everyone else doesn't or shouldn't.  that's where i'd place that 'should' - w/ the new LL.

It just seemed to be that one day for some reason. Some days after he was in the garden again and I mentioned I'd been feeling better for a couple of days and so I had partially cleared a bunch of dandelions and nettles from a space and had been planting some of the plants I brought with me in that space, though I wasn't finished yet. He was accepting of that, no critical remarks or anything, his face even lit up at my flowers. He also pointed at the bed about which he'd made the critical remark and mentioned it's all clear now :) :thumbup: which isn't even quite true, but yeah, I had done some more work on it. He was pleased.

I'm going inpatient again next week. Last year part of the program for some people though not me was doing outside work in the grounds. I would've liked to be in that group but it clashed with something important like 'mindfulness including body work for women with trauma'. But now I realise with the amount of recovery work and progress I have under my belt since then, I don't actually need the outdoor work therapy, working in the garden here to the specifications of LL will give me part of what I hoped to get out of the outdoor work therapy. This is huge progress! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:  One example, since LL showed me how to carefully clean the mower, I've carefully removed all soil off the garden tools I've been using - his as well as mine. In earlier times, I would have been too exhausted to do so. Now I stop before I get that exhausted. I don't think it's a bad thing to keep tools clean and in good working order. I would guess that LL grew up with that being normal and common place, based on what I know of him.

As for old LL - he and new LL are miles apart. New LL might be a bit pedantic in some ways, but he means well and is generous. I probably have some things to learn about getting on with him (which might include not explaining or justifying myself) and he does about getting on with me, but I don't have any huge doubts or fears.

blueberry, i'm glad i read him wrong and that he's not what i thought.   :doh:

will be thinking of you while you're inpatient.  sounds like you've made some good realizations for yourself.  well done!  :thumbup: love and hugs :hug:

Thinking of you Blueberry  :hug:

Thank you again for the links you provided.

Today's been a difficult day. I woke up with my eyes and the surrounding skin all puffy. I had this last year too, in the aftermath of Covid. I feel dopey and generally unwell and have been sleeping a lot. Headache and other undefined non-well feeling. Yesterday (Thursday) I had a huge lump in my throat and my nasal passages felt all clogged up. There's a bit left today. These two are very old symptoms, which I hardly get anymore and especially not to that degree.

On Wednesday I went to a talk/cultural event and one of the friends I gave the hoof to was there. She made a beeline for me in the intermission. She wanted to know where I've moved to. I knew she'd want to know. I did tell her. Then she proceeded to 'interrogate' me: on whether it's affordable, whether I was staying there or moving back to old place once renovations done, whether old LL had coughed up enough to cover moving costs. When I nodded to that, she continued to pry about whether enough to cover other stuff...  I did tell her a bit about the place I've moved to, which she'd see anyway if she went past, like there's a garden. Partly I told her just because I like talking about my new place ;D and I don't regret it, there's nothing particular she can do with the information. Except went straight on to comment on that being wonderful so the furbabies can go out onto the grass - she knew my furbabies and has a similar type herself. Nope, I don't have furbabies anymore. The old one died. More interrogation on future plans for furbabies, which I interrupted and then ended the conversation.

It's possible talking to her set off a bunch of physical symptoms. The inner head is nodding, so yes. Also looking back at that paragraph makes me realise how much was packed into that conversation though it really only felt like a few minutes and probably was only that. I did end the conversation - cut her off and turned away :cheer: but NTS in a similar situation in future it would be advisable for me to end the conversation sooner or even right away. I do like to talk about my new place, but do that only for people who treat me well or treat me neutrally. This ex-friend doesn't do that. That's one reason why she's no longer a friend. I don't like the way she treats me and I told her as such in an email last year some time. So she's still coming up to me pretending we're friends. Quite a lot of her reminded me of FOO and in particular of M during that conversation and now while I'm mulling it over same thing.

I didn't ask her about herself or furbabies, except a polite 'How are you?' after her initial question on same, to which I answered "Fine." which isn't quite true, but I sure didn't want to say anything else atm e.g. I'm going inpatient next week. No, she does not get that information :no: :no:   I didn't ask her any questions because I ended the friendship and I'm not interested. She apparently is still invested in the non-existant friendship, I have no idea why. I don't need to know either, but want to be more cautious in future around her. I'm NOT haranguing myself on having spoken to her. I'm just looking at what to do next time in a similar situation. This is big progress in kind, appropriate self-talk :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

It is big progress, Blueberry, and you are right there was a TON packed into that uncomfortable and unwanted conversation.

I hope you feel better soon as I imagine there are things you hope to do before going inpatient?

I appreciate the mention of noticing an "inner head" and if it is nodding along with something one suspects.

blueberry, i also loved your image of an 'inner head' nodding.  great way to check yourself.  and, she does sound like someone i'd rather not be around.  i'm glad you recognized that and have a plan for the next time you meet.  appropriate self-talk, indeed!  love and hugs :hug:

I've had an Inner Head which nods for at least several years now. It's useful because when I become aware of it / see it in my mind's eye, then it's a definite 'yes'.

I'm definitely sick today. Mostly I lie in bed dozing and sleeping. don't even have the energy to read children's books.

I feel lonely, which is often the case when I'm sick. Makes sense too because I am completely alone. Too sick to even go down into the garden and talk to the birds.

I hope I'm well enough to go inpatient on Tuesday. I'll speak to them on Monday about that. Worst-case scenario - my stay would be postponed till August, but maybe postponed just a week. This coming Thursday is a public holiday anyway and nothing much happens in inpatient places here on the weekends.

I may be sick also because I quite simply need a break. It feels like a long time since I had to get sick in order to allow myself a break.

I hope the current unwellness lets up enough for the inpatient stay.  I resonate with feeling lonely when sick.  If it is helpful, I am here with you.

Thank you for being here with me rainy :hug:   Today I feel a little less lonely and a little better physically. It is interesting that you resonate with feeling lonely when sick too, rainy. I think it might be an inner child in my case. Not sure though.

Yes, Armee, unfortunately there are things I need and want to do before I go inpatient. Even if I pare the list down, which I have started already, there's still stuff to do and it feels exhausting just thinking about it. At least the inpatient place is very close by - just a short bus ride - so I can come home to deal with stuff or collect things I forgot but otoh once I am in inpatient modus, it often feels hard to drag myself away and what is in the scheme of things a short walk to the bus stop seems interminably long. Here at home I can get a taxi and I may do so the day of admission but where I'm going there are no taxis that I know of.

glad to hear you're feeling better, blueberry.  hope that continues.  i also hope you get done what needs doing.  with you all the way.  love and hugs :hug:

Quote from: Blueberry on May 11, 2023, 10:31:08 PM
I copied this word-for-word from Kizzie's Journal because I want it in my Journal. Thanks Kizzie! I will come back to it and write my thoughts on it another day.

Kizzie: I was just re-reading an article about N parents and it helped me to understand why I don't want to go visit my NM who has terminal cancer before she dies.  She is a covert or stealth N who has made it her quest to be perceived as the good, best really mother, wife, sister, aunt, friend.... and she has fooled a lot of people. I am so afraid of going to see her and having this erasure of abuse as described below happen to me.  I know it happened, but it is so terribly painful that others do not.

This form of secondary gaslighting and invalidation is incredibly painful, especially when it comes from the very professionals, friends and family members who are meant to help support the survivor on their healing journey. Not only does secondary gaslighting from other people further isolate the survivor, it actually hinders the healing process. I cant tell you the number of times a survivor has reached out to me to tell me the painful effects of being invalidated by a friend, a family member, a spiritual leader or even a therapist who dispensed ill-informed, sometimes even victim-blaming ideas.

This also contributes to a global Gaslighting Effect in which speaking out about abuse by covert manipulators is met with some form of backlash, victim-blaming, and victim-shaming by enablers of abusers and abusers themselves.Survivor Ariel Leve explains that this form of secondary gaslighting in incredibly traumatic to the survivor. As she says, "It wasn't just that my reality was canceled, but that my perception of reality was overwritten...it wasn't the loudest and scariest explosions that caused the most damage. It wasn't the physical violence or the verbal abuse or the lack of boundaries and inappropriate behavior. What did the real damage was the denial that these incidents ever occurred...the erasure of the abuse was worse than the abuse."

    Arabi, S. (2018) https://blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2018/10/gaslighting-survivors-of-narcissists-and-narcissistic-abuse/#.XHvUb3hryo0.twitter How Society Gaslights Survivors of Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Psychopaths (A Guide for Therapists, Law Enforcement and Loved Ones)

This is really excellent.  It is why I never share my traumatic experiences with people other than ones in this forum, and my husband.  I"m so glad you posted this blueberry. 

Is there a legend here on the forum where I can find out what the different acronyms stand for? What is an LL? 

Blueberry I applaud you for ending a friendship with a person what was not good for you.  I'm sorry you had to deal with her during your culture event.  Good for you, for ending the conversation and turning away. 

I'm sorry that you are sick, and might have to put off your inpatient stay.  I'm sending healing thoughts and prayers your way, if that's OK.

I've read through your journal, and like you, I'm also into gardening.  It sounds like you are having some good progress, and are working hard at your recovery.   :applause:

Hi Blueberry,
I am thinking of you, and hoping you're doing ok.  Will look forward to communicating with you again when you're back.  Sending you a hug in the meantime  :hug:
Hope  :)

thinking of you, blueberry.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you everybody.

I was writing a lovely long response including an update from inpatient T, chiefly for myself of course, but I did something wrong and unintentionally 'left' OOTS and lost what I was writing. Oh well, back to my paper Journal. Hope I remember some of the conclusions I came to while writing on here so can write them in my paper Journal too.

natureluvr, there is a list of acronyms on here somewhere. LL probably isn't on it, but it means landlord.

I'll probably be inpatient till July 25th or possibly even a week after that. Just home for the weekend to see how I get on and also to get a break from a bunch of other psychologically unhealthy people. Kind of different from on OOTS, even my one-on-one inpatient trauma T said something along the lines of: 'don't take xyz personnally, because between you, me and the garden post, nobody here is healthy psychologically'. That's not as bad as it sounds vis-a-vis the other patients.

you've been on my mind, too, blueberry.  sorry you lost the response - i hate when that happens.  love and hugs :hug:

 :hug: we miss you around here. I'm glad you can get a breather. I can imagine it would be a challenging interpersonal environment. Here you can come and go as you have the bandwidth for. There is where you are living.

Good to see you pop up BB, we do miss you  :yes:  I hear you about the unhealthy people in your inpatient program having done two programs in the last 6 months.  In the second one there was a fellow who literally made my teeth ache and between him and all the CBT I left - could not take it anymore.  Fortunately my psychiatrist was supportive so I didn't have to deal with any attitude.

Anyway, glad to see you and I hope the time home gives you a good enough break.  Love what the T said!   :thumbup:

Miss you too, blueberry!  I hope the inpatient time goes well for you. We'll be here whenever you can pop in!  :hug:

 :hug:

Thank you all :hug:

Actually it turns out that one of the very unhealthy patients in the program is me :spooked:  :disappear: Not that any of the Ts said that because they do non-confrontational therapy here, which is good for me. More confrontational types where they tell you you're in victim role or perpetrator role (mostly for how you speak to other patients, so nothing physical) doesn't help me or probably anybody else in fact.

Among other things it turns out that whereever exactly I am on the dissociative spectrum, it's worse than anybody realised. It's affecting my hearing and even language comprehension - sometimes all the words sound joined up, even the syllables, so I can't understand anything. Sometimes I have to really really strain to hear, since everything sounds so quiet, so faint.

I'm also not very good at hearing between the lines so to speak, though I don't think that's dissociative myself. I think that has more to do with the way my words were used against me when I still lived with FOO as a child and teen. But anyway I ask for confirmation and people groan because that's already been answered. They groan because they've been hearing that kind of request from me for weeks :disappear:

There's a rule in the inpatient place they tell everybody when you arrive: what is said in therapy groups remains there and you don't talk about other people behind their backs. I remain totally obedient about that kind of thing and believe everybody else does until I discover they don't. I did discover sometime ago that one person is talked about behind his back, but now I know I am too. 

But to get to the crux of the matter: the way I speak to people - especially my peers - isn't always respectful or polite or friendly. I've been in this situation before - an outcast and/or somebody approached only when other people need help. I don't mean so much in FOO, I mean in different elementary and high schools, among neighbours, various landlords, in associations etc. and in inpatient places about 20-odd years ago. One way I have of dealing with my bad feelings about it is by cutting contact until I have next to no contacts.

Anyway I'm noticing now how I'm writing about it but I'm not feeling anything. That's the other thing 2-3 Ts really noticed within the past 5 days - there's a big disconnect between my emotions and thoughts. In one-on-one T I can stay connected with emotions and thoughts some of the time but otherwise I'm often on some intellectual level somewhere or at best I can feel my body (mostly) and remain in my intellect but emotions are a no-go, unless a T I know and trust can lead me there.

In desperation yesterday I started reading and actually writing in The Self-Compassion Workbook, and that was helpful in not annihilating myself emotionally.

Hi Blueberry,
I'm just sending you a hug, if that's ok  :hug: I find your writing to be insightful.  I'm glad that the Self-Compassion Workbook was something you were able to read and write in.  Self-compassion is a big thing.  I relate to not being able to necessarily feel the emotions. 

Hope  :)

Thank you Hope, a hug is really good atm! :hug:  :)

I'm going back to the inpatient place in a couple of hours. Noticing what I have been doing to others does not feel good, putting it mildly. I can't write anymore on that. Except I'm thinking about coming home again on the original day I was meant to rather than getting a 1-2 week extension because I can't stand myself within the inpatient place. I'm now pretty much isolated (has been getting worse for a couple of weeks) and now that I know most of that is connected to my own behaviour, it's pretty painful to be there. I do see some recovery in that it hasn't thrown me for a complete and utter loop.

I notice how recovery work I did years ago in inpatient places that incorporated some of the philosophy and ideas of the 12 Step groups is helpful at the moment. I'm not doing a written inventory of my shortcomings in the past couple of weeks or even back at the beginning of my stay but I am looking at those shortcomings and the damage they've done to me now and the damage that kind of behaviour has done to me over the years. It's a waking moment that says I can't keep doing this to other people! Nor to myself since it usually backfires anyway. In those inpatient places and also at the weekend retreats I used to go to there was a lot of emotional release work, which there isn't here to that degree. It's both useful and painful to see how my interpersonal relations or whatever you call them get all out of control when I don't have heavy-duty emotional release work going on. It's useful because in everyday life there isn't a framework of emotional release work. It's good for me to see once more how regular weekend retreats kept me going in a number of ways and without them, I get into a bad state psychologically-speaking pretty fast.

What that does say to me is that I can forget a job in the normal working world for interpersonal reasons alone (not to mention dissociation, trauma-brain-with-technology etc), so I'll go back to some one-on-one teaching and most probably the farm, where I'm accepted and where I don't tend to get triggered anymore. It does me good and they can almost always do with an extra person about. There I have company - I'm often lonely due to problems interacting with people. There it's much more about work and then some interaction either during work or at meals than in other settings. That's good for me.

 :hug:

I know when I realize my own role in problems it is very painful. But also after the idea has settled in more I realize I was also a little bit being overly harsh on myself.  :grouphug:

Your ideas for continuing work in settings that accommodate your differing abilities sound really good.

Blueberry, those are painful realizations. Please try to have compassion for yourself.

 :hug:

BB, I am checking in and resonate with reflections about managing the impact we may have on others. 

Thank you all for your responses and hugs and reminders not to be too harsh on myself. :Hugs:

Just home for the day, I am taking advantage of my extension since I realised not doing so would deprive me of some opportunity for growth. I also feel back in the group and the whole inpatient community, which is  really good! I managed some changes, that was noticed and people stopped avoiding me like the plague.

A couple of days ago, I almost started removing myself again but managed to stop the inevitable downwards spiral by talking to my T. My trauma T is now on holiday, so inpatient I have a different T, who I do know - she does the art T for instance, and she does have good understanding of Parts, though she isn't a trauma T per se. This is partially good atm. She helped me see that what I thought was a conflict between me and another patient was just a difference of opinion where the other patient probably felt guilty and made a remark which in turn made me feel guilty because of my background with FOO. But neither of us are guilty. It was just a difference of opinion that played out more between the lines and in action than in direct words and then I removed myself from the situation. And that's perfectly OK, said T. I have a lot of therapy in the past where you get to analyse where you went wrong and how could you have better managed the situation earlier so that that particular reaction didn't happen. This T says: :no:  :no: Perfectly normal situation, happens to 'us therapists' too, she said. You're just relaxing and talking or in this case playing a game and you decide to leave the game for whatever reason. In fact, I didn't even need to have given a reason, though I did.

Then what's more - on some question from T, I started justifying myself and my actions and telling T the exact sequence of events. Since she doesn't know me that well, she wondered about that and I explained about having to justify more or less everything to FOO and then still being proved 'wrong' by FOO because I left out some detail or they decided my account was irrational or something. Sometimes I do know that I'm justifying, but in this particular case I hadn't even noticed. I had no idea that I didn't have to recount all this 'she said and I did and I thought' etc.! I hope in future that I can learn to summarise my accounts of happenings or of feelings or whatever and not write such long reams on here too!

T also said it's perfectly acceptable to choose not to play another game with that particular patient but to always consider whether or not it might be possible to play when other people are playing too, rather than cutting myself out there as well, which I tend to. And then 'suddenly' there's nobody in the group I can socialise with or even talk to.

Later that day my mind clicked on why I act that way: when I was in my mid to late teens and early twenties the only way I could show B1 and everybody else in FOO that I disagreed with how he treated me (PA) was by not speaking to him. At all. For weeks or even months at a time. My parents reacted by mostly not speaking to me, except commands, criticisms etc. (Fortunately there were long intervals when either I or B1 were abroad for a year so conversation was fairly normal again.) But the pattern is: I show a limit and others gang up on me, whether 'not speaking' or I get ostracised someway or earlier in my childhood some other punishment which says 'you are not allowed to say "No" to B1'. Time to toss that behaviour because FOO's way of acting is a load of §*!$ as I remarked to T. She agreed. 

It's crazy the behaviours we were up against and our own we used to protect ourselves isn't it BB?  It's hard to believe life for non-survivors is a lot easier, calmer, spontaneous (instead of weighing every word and action), and just generally open and authentic.  I know it's not that way all the time for anyone, but it is most of the time and I so would love that for you, for me and for all of us who lost that.  We are prickly because we had to be and unlearning that is not easy so bravo to you for the hard work you are doing in the program  :thumbup:   :applause:  :hug: 

blueberry, i admire your courage for putting yourself in a place to continue digging deeper, facing and accepting such huge realizations, and understanding your own part in interpersonal relationships.  i know this is difficult work - as kizzie says, we've produced some amazing protective devices and perspectives during our lifetimes - and you deserve all the self-compassion and gentleness in the world.  sending love and a hug filled w/ 'well done, blueberry'.  :hug:

I admire your courage too, BB, and how open you have been to seeing patterns and wanting to try something different.

These daily interactions we had in our FOOS shaped our brain and behavior to survive, we really had no choice. We have choices noe but when these protective responses are ingrained as deep as they are we don't even see them. So I think it's really awesome that this T is helping you notice. That's almost impossible to do alone.  :grouphug:

Blueberry I admire you for all the inner work you are doing with your inpatient program, and with your therapists. :yourock:

I second Natureluvr  :hug:

 :applause: Big realizations and growth. You are working hard. Yea for you.

 :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you all for your messages :)  :hug:

I came home from inpatient place yesterday. They asked me how I felt and I myself was very surprised to feel confident and optimistic for the first time ever at the end of an inpatient stay. I also said I felt calm, also a first. One mbr of staff said it was also the first time she could feel my calmness, which surprised me because I thought I was a calm kind of person. But she said most patients get stirred up in that place - it's part of treatment really - because your problems and symptoms are automatically nudged a bit. Makes sense of course. So I suppose I'm often a quiet person, not to be equated with calm. It was interesting to me how much I don't really feel what's going on with and in me. This then comes out as verbal aggression and/or maybe unexpressed aggression, which people around me can sense however. Or unexpressed fear/anger, also sensed however and people avoid me.

I came home yesterday, as I wrote, and have done more or less zero of use since then. I know what I could be doing however. Well, maybe tomorrow.

What was huge in my last few days inpatient was to realise a bunch of my own shortcomings and not annihilate myself internally, or verbally to others. I did speak to mbrs of staff, I guess you would call them psychiatric nurses in English. I had very useful conversations with some of them! They gave me support and their words were nothing like annihilation.

welcome home, blueberry.  :wave:  sounds like you did a lot of work with some excellent results.  i get the idea of not realizing how or what you're feeling and it comes out aggressively.  i hope you can take this new sense of calm, confidence, and optimism and enjoy it forever - my wish for you.  love and a hug filled w/ retaining all you learned.  :hug:

Hi! Welcome back! You've done a ton of hard work and I have no doubt it will pay off.  :hug:

Yes, welcome home BB, missed you! Maybe you didn't annihilate yourself (and that's really good to hear), because your shortcomings aren't so much shortcomings as simply being human?  We (survivors) seem to expect way too much of ourselves, I guess it's so no-one can hurt us if we're perfect.

Anyway, bravo for all the hard work you did in the program  :applause: 

Welcome back Blueberry!

You were missed!!!

Sounds difficult but amazing results from all the work and time you put in to your healing the past few months.  Way to go Blueberry!

 :hug:  :hug:

I'm having trouble writing on here atm. I'm not doing well. 'All' I need to do is get my act together but I prefer reading and/or eating and that is mostly what I do, or sleep of course.

Do what you need to BB, big hug  :bighug:

 :hug: if okay if not please disregard

take your time, blueberry.  you've been thru a lot in the past month.  you deserve some rest and relaxation. love and hugs :hug:

 :yeahthat:

Huge transition. We're here, even if you can't write.

Thank you all for responding.  :grouphug:

Writing did help me to go downstairs and out into the garden where I did a little weeding and put one of the bins out for collection tomorrow. While doing so, I obviously got some fresh air and felt the ground under my feet and the weeds in my hands, these are all things that help me feel a little grounded. I also phoned an elderly lady I know who had an operation a few weeks ago.

Since I've been back home from inpatient, I've had trouble feeling any kind of reason to keep going. I'm not going to do anything to myself, no worries there, but I don't feel any kind of goals. Not even any small ones. On top of that, my dreams have been quite vivid and strange. Nothing particularly bad going on, just people and places from years ago in my dreams e.g. grandparents (all long since passed) and then me feeling as if I don't belong in the country I live in or even the house.

I intended to go up to the farm on the weekend, but then I simply didn't go. Maybe it is too much atm, idk. I read of 2 different families desperately looking to rehome their small pets and I felt a surge of energy, but I know it wouldn't hold, that's not the answer, I can hardly look after myself atm. In fact for the first time ever, I have a new diagnosis which could be translated into 'Neglect of self', I suppose.

Quote from: Kizzie on August 03, 2023, 04:45:20 PMMaybe you didn't annihilate yourself (and that's really good to hear), because your shortcomings aren't so much shortcomings as simply being human?  We (survivors) seem to expect way too much of ourselves, I guess it's so no-one can hurt us if we're perfect.

You're very nice Kizzie, but unfortunately you've never met me in a group in person :disappear: This time I was able to see and feel how much I'm critical of others and of how much I try to push people into doing what I think is best and I do this by harping on about rules. I even went into this mode where I assumed I knew more than the T in group therapy about running a group :disappear:  :disappear:  Yes, I do this partly to feel safe, though trying to get others to stick to my rules, or any rules, has never been particularly helpful or successful.

There were tons of survivors in the inpatient place, more than were even in the various different trauma groups and afaik almost all cptsd, rather than ptsd, so I can't hide behind my diagnosis. My inpatient trauma T thinks the part of me that goes "ROAR" from time to time is more a mode than a dissociative part. I feel now that the "ROAR" mode or part gives me energy and some sort of direction, which I now no longer have, hence roving between computer, bed (or for a few days now sofa) and electric kettle (for tea) and fridge. I noticed in the inpatient place that "ROAR" made me unpopular (people are frightened and/or annoyed) but also ashamed of myself, so I'd pull back even further.

I didn't annihilate myself because that was something I was working on not doing, so that's at least one big piece of progress.

OK BB, I hear you.  Big hug my friend :bighug: 

I kind of love rule enforcers.  :grouphug:

BB, I appreciate your reflection about noticing yourself in context of the group and differences between being home and in inpatient.

Quote from: Armee on August 10, 2023, 12:07:21 AMI kind of love rule enforcers.  :grouphug:

 ;D  It may depend on how the rule enforcers try to enforce the rules, but I will keep that in mind.  :hug:

Thanks again everybody for all your encouraging remarks, it's good for me to re-read :grouphug: e.g. maybe I really am doing what's good for me? i.e. sleeping while things sort themselves. And occasionally writing things on the forum that could be useful for others. I used to moderate and that was a goal and a reason to get up and out of bed. I don't intend to go back to moderating but adding stuff I learnt inpatient has some sort of use for me and others.

I've had the Mindful Self-Compassion book for over a year, but in desperation in inpatient place, I started using it, writing in it even. But I blocked pretty quickly, meaning it was useful, yes, but not too much at once, can't go deep too fast. Nonetheless what I read/wrote combined with discussions with various Ts (and maybe even some discussions with fellow patients) helped me become more self-compassionate i.e not self-annihilate. That then helps me look at some more of my stuff - shortcomings and failings and stuff I'd really like to change.

Rule enforcer - that resonates with me too BB.

I also really relate when you speak of shortcomings, failing that you would like to change. Ditto here.

I really admire and want to mention all the difficult work you have been doing and facing.  You are strong and courageous. 

Blueberry, I wonder if the inpatient stay has stirred up a lot of things, hence the vivid strange dreams and lack of motivation?  Perhaps your mind is processing all of this, and so you don't have the bandwidth to do much else?  I don't know, just a thought.  I know what you said to me on my thread was really helpful, so thank you.   :hug:

 :yeahthat:
natureluvr, that's the conclusion I came to some time yesterday or last night as well. Thank you for spelling it out for me because that helped reinforce for me, helped validate my own conclusion. It's not as if no mbrs on here had suggested it... Today I'm doing better at pacing myself. Even yesterday evening I was doing better. The bandwidth is widening...

I've done a little cleaning, I also unpacked one suitcase from inpatient stay. Today I went into centre of town twice - lots of Saturdays since I moved I didn't even manage to go once, even tho the farmer's market is there. I looked into barefoot shoes today and even bought a pair. I have a lot of trouble with my feet and with finding shoes that at least don't exacerbate my foot problems. Only time will tell with these.

I realised today that I have been semi-dissociated off and on since I came home from inpatient treatment, e.g. I felt a bit 'floaty' and spaced out when walking along. Today I've definitely got both feet on the ground. I was a bit 'floaty' during inpatient stay sometimes too.

When I think about it, it's no huge surprise that things have been difficult. Day-to-day is generally difficult for me and the inpatient place I was in is not one where I come home with a ton of additional energy, it's more step by little minuscule step to integrate what I absorbed there into life at home. Of course it doesn't work all at once. A couple of Ts were listing the kinds of things we should do at home in the first couple of weeks to remain stable, but 1) Should is never good for me and 2) one of the Ts was particularly talking about depression rather than cptsd. Depression 'typically' is healed in 1.5 to 2 years :blink:  :blink: 'I've had it continuously most of my life' from BB. Then T says: in your case, the depression is an additional thing on top (so won't heal before the stuff underneath). But I still put myself under pressure to take the steps e.g. making day-to-day plans, meeting up with other people, giving myself a structure, going out of the house, doing my physio exercises, doing 'something useful', :blahblahblah:  not spending too much time reading, doing crosswords, writing/reading on OOTS, lying around sleeping etc. Then not so surprisingly those 'shoulds' and 'should nots' didn't work :doh: Writing this here in the hope that it'll help me some other time.

Quote from: Moondance on August 10, 2023, 09:12:21 PMI really admire and want to mention all the difficult work you have been doing and facing.  You are strong and courageous. 

Thank you for writing that :) At the moment, it's next to impossible for me to feel that with my emotions, but that may come. It's certainly helpful to read it.  :hug:

blueberry, putting yourself under 'pressure' to do all those things sounds exhausting!  i'm not at the point where i can make more than 1 or 2 goals for myself for the day.  that you can think of such a variety blows my mind.

and, totally agree w/ moondance about what you've been doing, showing your courage and determination to get out of the clutches of this beast.  i hope things can settle for you soon, and i hope you can be gentle and patient w/ yourself while they do.  love and hugs  :hug:

 :bighug: to you Blueberry if okay

Thank you moondance, hugs here on OOTS are great! :hug:

_ _ _

Actually, I had other stuff to write, but I'm just sooo tired and it's only just noon. I feel as if I hardly done anything this morning. Meds, breakfast, tea, arranged a doc appt, advertised a give-away. Now I can't stop yawning and have sugar-craving. Tiredness/yawning is undoubtedly an EF of sorts. But still so hard for me to believe that I need to put everything on the backburner for a few hours while I go and rest, though there's so much important stuff to do. Aargh. I hate this.

I've just been reading your last few journal entries. I think you are doing very well.  :hug:

I notice you have bought some barefoot shoes. I have experimented with those a little. Not for everyday life but because I do weight lifting. Many people do it in actual bare feet but that gives me the total ick. I would say that if you are planning to use them for general walking about then go slowly until you get used to them. They may suit you very well, and I hope they do, but they are not something I found I could wear a lot from the get go. They were fine for the gym but whereas I tend to keep my trainers on for most of the day after the gym, when the barefoot shoes were new to me I was pretty keen to remove them after the exercise. Gradually I adapted to them. It kind of depends on the brand you got, of course, as some are more barefoot than others, if you see what I mean.

blueberry, that sounded like a lot to me.  anything involving brainwork exhausts me. and for the record, i hate this, too!

i know you'll get to whatever you have to do, but i'm glad you're listening to your body/brain that it's time for a nap. keep up the good work.  love and hugs :hug:

Hi Blueberry

It sounded like a lot to me as well.

I hope you got the needed rest. 

I didn't know that tiredness, yawning could be a sign of an EF thanks for that.  :)

 :hug:

Welcome back home. Be kind to yourself. This is a big change and transition.

Quote from: Blueberry on August 12, 2023, 12:55:59 PM

Quote from: Moondance on August 10, 2023, 09:12:21 PMI really admire and want to mention all the difficult work you have been doing and facing.  You are strong and courageous. 

Thank you for writing that :) At the moment, it's next to impossible for me to feel that with my emotions, but that may come. It's certainly helpful to read it.  :hug:

Moondance, I'm now able to feel some of what you wrote in my emotions. So thank you.  :hug:

Re: tiredness and yawning. For me those can definitely be a sign of an EF, in fact they're a very common sign. A couple of days ago, I got a number of things done, but hadn't yet managed to vacuum and mop - both of which really needed to be done. I was really tired but after supper I decided to push through with it. Interestingly enough, I wasn't any more tired afterwards than before. That told me that the physical tiredness I'd been feeling wasn't actually physical, it was an EF. That's the first time I've had it so clear. It makes sense to me that I would react with tiredness because as a child from maybe 7 yo, I was often tired and physically weak and by the time I was in my early teens, I was sleeping and/or pretending to do so even in the daytime as an escape. It worked too mostly. I got ridiculed and harangued a lot less by FOO when it looked as if I was asleep. I yawn and yawn and yawn when something's processing internally. I yawn so much my jaws ache and my eyes run, but as I say I know something is processing, so that feels good at least in a way.

______________________

I'm doing better bit by bit. When I first came home, I was buying prepared salads every day to make sure I ate. The past few days, I've bought bags of pre-washed lettuce but I've been making the rest of the salad on my own with whatever else is hanging around. With whatever I'm doing in the course of the day, I have more stamina. I feel fine about working once a week at the farm. I even stayed 2 nights last week and I'm going up later today to stay till Monday. The week before I worked at the farm, I tried to sweep an elderly friend's sidewalk for him and I was too exhausted to complete it. He was however grateful for the amount I had done. Next week he's having an eye op, and although I can't and won't promise him I'll help in his garden and/or the sidewalk, I think it's likely that I'll manage a few things for him. Yesterday or the day before I got a bunch of windfall apples - they need to be dealt with soon i.e. today but I will manage that before I head to the farm.

The first couple of times I used my dishwasher since I got home from inpatient, I had anxiety which I could feel physically - mostly about all the different noises no matter how small. Today I set it in motion again and there was no anxiety. Tho there is a little now writing about it. But still whatever the exact 'topic' behind the anxiety is, it's hampering me less.

I've moved some bookshelves around to where it makes better sense and so have been able to unpack more book boxes and flatten them for storage until they're all empty and then the removal company will collect them again :)  When the boxes finally get collected, that will feel good and my apartment will definitely look better. One of my goals for the near future is unpacking the remainder of the boxes but to do that I need a place to put contents other than piling them on the floor. The good thing is: I have a manageable goal. Not too many days ago, the idea of goals was too much.

That sign of an EF makes so much sense... sleeping or pretending to sleep was a protective mechanism you used to escape more harm and so even if you aren't recognizing the trigger, recognizing the sign you've been triggered is so smart. Excessive sleepiness is also a sign of dissociation for me and I also used sleep to escape. It all makes sense to me what you are saying. Blueberry.

Whenever you list what you've done it always feels like so much!

I'm glad you are back home, adjusting gently by first buying prepared salads, and you are so kind to take your very limited energy and to spend it helping others.

sounds like you're doing a good job of transitioning, blueberry.  please continue to be gentle w/ yourself.  love and hugs :hug:

The sleepiness and yawning as EF's make so much sense to me Blueberry.

I've been extremely sleepy and yawning since A got back.  I've been sleeping a lot. I am becoming more aware of how I'm feeling and responding or not responding since his return.

Thank you for sharing those symptoms and also how working thru the tiredness you mentioned made you aware it was clearly an EF.

And I'm glad you were able to feel the words in your emotions.

I get hope from each of your posts

 :bighug:

Hi BB,

I think to a cerrtain extent, I like rules too. They're something that keeps us safeguarded where we probably weren't at other times. I also notice a lack of motivation to do things. I know I can get them done and usually do, but it's also as if something in me sees them as big, overwhelming and scary. I'm slowly unpacking this and, for me, I think there a few factors at play. One is physical and I think the mold and mycotoxins have been an issue as they influence your dopaminergic channels. (I took some vitamin c the other day at a slightly higher dose - I used to take EmergenC all the time - and all of a sudden I wanted to clean). The other is related to FOO and how they were pretty critical of me and the things I did.

Very slowly, I am trying the daily morning homework in Joanne Twombly's book, which does make a difference at times. I also notice I "forget" to do it at others (funny that). Perhaps because I just feel that nothing will be good enough. I also notice parts that have resistance probably because so much was always expected of me, and that I had to take on everyone else's responsibilities, that I don't want to do anything even though I know it feels good when I do it.

I also think we push people away because at one time we needed to do that to be safe. For me, it's perhaps likely that there are still parts living in that time, or thinking they need to do that to feel safe.

I hope you're able to find some space to be gentle with yourself in your routine,
dolly

Dear Blueberry,
I haven't popped into your journal for a while, but I wanted to say I'm glad you're back home again safely and that you are here in the forum again - I missed you!  Sending  you a hug  :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope :hug:   I read in your Journal recently but couldn't write for whatever reason.

We're having a heatwave and it's really humid too. The water's running down me in rivulets, just with sitting never mind cycling which I had to do this morning from A to B to C. Not that it was far at all and it even gave me a bit of a breeze.

My new apt isn't very heat proof. My old one remained pretty cool even in the hottest summer. I know I need to do something about the heat eg. by installing blinds on my kitchen window but there are too many things to do otherwise that have deadlines and are also difficult, triggering. Because of one appointment, which I hadn't thought would throw me, plus a phone call I knew would be difficult, I didn't get up till almost 11am. Anyway, there's an end in sight to the heatwave, temperatures are meant to drop by about 25°C next week.

sorry you're suffering in the heat, blueberry.  hopefully it will pass soon.  please be careful.  love and hugs :hug:

Blueberry - I'm glad it will be cooling off for you.

It's too hot for a big hug soooo  :hug:

I feel bad for not replying individually to those kind mbrs who've written on here in the past while. Somehow I can't atm. That feels very rude of me.

Good Things from yesterday:
I went swimming to cool off

a friend did 2 loads of laundry for me (washing machine developed a problem just before I went inpatient) and got them all dried outside in the sun too;

a bus stopped on the main road of a busy intersection so I could come out of the side road where I live and cross to get on the bike path, the bus stopping kinda forced the car driver on the opposite side of the road to stop too :)  Needless to say, bus and car both had right-of-way.

I had 2 showers yesterday - to cool off. Showering has been really difficult recently, so  :cheer:

Had a nice chat with neighbour woman downstairs and got to pet her super-friendly dog
 
In the evening a very bad thunderstorm with pelting rain got up while I was at the nearby grocery store. I waited a while, hoping it would ease up before the store closed because I'm frightened of being out and about in thunderstorms when the lightning is near. A customer greeted me on his way in and on the way back out he offered to drive me home. We knew we knew each other by sight but couldn't think where from, but I knew it was safe to go with him  :)

___________________
Yesterday I had my final T appointment with the trauma-informed therapist I've been going to for aaaages. I thought 5 years, but turns out when he looked in his notes, it's actually 8 years. On the way there I was thinking what to say and I had no idea, even though he'd said we'd be looking at my progress over the years. All I could think of was my progress during the inpatient stay. He asked about that too, to start off with, and then therapy with him over the years, including what had been good for me about his therapy, which surprised me because he's retiring in a month. But it was good for me to list it and I presume that's at least one reason he asked. It was so so helpful for me that he accepted me where I was and not where he thought I 'should be' after so much therapy (his and previous therapists'). Not just helpful, really almost necessary for me to progress at all. There have been other Ts and docs who've understood a lot and who have helped by accepting me as is for a while, but they all got impatient eventually (all except my almost ex-GP and the main Ts where I used to do weekend retreats and the most important Ts for me in new inpatient place). But the rest - they'd start confronting and intimating or even saying that I'm actually no better than mbrs of FOO. Plus deciding I was too 'aggressive' (mostly verbally) to have cptsd or to have suffered CSA and all sorts of mess of that nature, some of which was pretty triggering and threw me back essentially. So one reason why recovery is taking so long. I couldn't trust these people who were supposedly helping me, after all. And they - like FOO - didn't want to let me trust my own feelings, judgements, opinions etc. One even threw me out of therapy to go and sort out 'the problems I had with her on my own' and then I could come back. Needless to say, I didn't go back but that experience set me back really badly.

Then there were Ts I tried out for a few times and knew I couldn't stay with them at all because they couldn't deal with my need to 'not be asked many questions'. It's taken a long time to figure out that it's not the questions per se that were triggering but rather the number of questions, the expectation about how quickly I could answer them (right away!) and tone of voice etc which would show it wasn't really a question, it was mostly a rebuke or ...?? (maybe I'll think of a better word later) disguised as a question. They were often 'Why' questions. Not asked neutrally or out of real interest, but with an undertone of 'why did you do that?', why (on earth) did you think that?', 'Why didn't you do something else?' Now my mind is blank. Hard topic. I hope to continue about my final T appt later.

I'm so sorry you are losing your current trauma T. Those others you have had sound awful. I too am quite triggered by questions, probably for different reasons, but a even moderately competent trauma T would understand that and adjust, not shame. Those are some phenomenally bad experiences you had with Ts. I'm so sorry you went through all that.

Congrats on all the great things yesterday...2 showers, the ride home in the storm, busses stopping for you .... all great things but even better that you notice them.  :cheer:

Gosh Blueberry your post resonates with me so much.

I half always expect my current T to be impatient with my lack of progress, etc.  I so get it how it sets us back.

I think we should become the poster children to educate on RELATIONAL trauma (CPTSD).  How can they not get that's it's about trust and how deeply that further traumatizes someone seeking help.

Many, not all, of those in the helping profession or dealing with CPTSD profession, including disability insurance companies are properly trained.   

Anyway sorry that felt like a rant - sorry 😞

You do you Blueberry - which is wonderful by the way.  I personally don't expect a response.   Keep looking after you and your needs.  This is what matters for each of us - to keep looking after ourselves.  I'm a fine one to say that but I do believe that is what each of us are striving for. Because nobody else did.

 :bighug:
 

Hi Blueberry,

I think a lot of us are aware of relational trauma and how difficult it can be to connect or to even have an individual response/connection sometimes.

I'm sorry your t's got frustrated with you for not answering their questions and basically just doing the things you needed to do for yourself, even if you couldn't explain why. To me, I think that's the biggest thing I'm realizing children who have NPD parents/family members face, that you can't explain what it's like not to have a Self, and you don't even know what that is/feels like to not have one because it wasn't ever safe to do so. These are just my experiences though.

Sending you support,
dolly

Quote from: Moondance on August 25, 2023, 05:01:54 PMI half always expect my current T to be impatient with my lack of progress, etc.  I so get it how it sets us back.

Once I asked my old T of the past 8 years (he really is my old T now :'(  ) if he would ever say I had to go because I was healed 'enough'. "No, definitely not", said he, shaking his head emphatically. I knew then that I could trust him on that point, but I had had to ask. And I also knew by that point that it was OK to ask. He wouldn't have been offended. One of the outpatient trauma Ts I tried out last year (upon recommendation of inpatient trauma T) was offended by some statement or question that came out of one of my parts SMH  :blink:  :blink: 

Quote from: Moondance on August 25, 2023, 05:01:54 PMAnyway sorry that felt like a rant - sorry 😞

I do believe you that it felt like that for you, but it honestly didn't for me. :hug:  :hug:

Quote from: Moondance on August 25, 2023, 05:01:54 PMKeep looking after you and your needs.  This is what matters for each of us - to keep looking after ourselves.  I'm a fine one to say that but I do believe that is what each of us are striving for. Because nobody else did.

These are very good words for me atm. You say you're a fine one to say it - I also really get that feeling, it resonates big time. I want to counter that with the thought that if you or I are saying that kind of thing to each other, even if we can't always yet do it for ourselves, we're still strengthening the neural pathways a little bit in pointing it out to each other. So long as we're genuinely working on our own stuff which afaic we both are, then no harm done.

Before writing that para I was still scheming about going over to the grocery store and buying some treats that undoubtedly some part of me needs or thinks she needs but most of me definitely doesn't need, particularly not my physical body. But fortunately it's too late to go over - it would be a real rush before closing. I don't feel like making that rush which I suppose means that the craving is not at maximum strength, otherwise I would make the effort. So in this moment it's good to re-gain that knowledge that there are different strengths and I'm not at the max. I can find a different way of dealing :yes:  :) 

hey blueberry,

just want to say i'm thinking of you.  love and hugs :hug:

You say you're a fine one to say it - I also really get that feeling, it resonates big time. I want to counter that with the thought that if you or I are saying that kind of thing to each other, even if we can't always yet do it for ourselves, we're still strengthening the neural pathways a little bit in pointing it out to each other. So long as we're genuinely working on our own stuff which afaic we both are, then no harm done.


Hi Blueberry - I find it encouraging when someone resonates with something I've shared.  And yes I agree that our pathways are strengthened by pointing it out to each other.

If I'm understanding what you are saying I'm afraid I fall short though on working on my own stuff - I easily get overwhelmed, shut down
Get triggered, etc etc.  Depression and anxiety doesn't help.  I'm not sure if that means I should not have said what I said - "I'm I fine one to say, etc ".  I do not wish any harm with my words.

Sending warm and positive thoughts and hugs.

 :hug:

It's all good, Moondance. You did no harm with your words!  imo 'working on self' means a whole range of things e.g. writing on here about self as opposed to just dishing out advice to others! There's no 'falling short' of anyone's expectations, except it seems a lot of us fall short of our own expectations, me included. I too get easily overwhelmed and then I shut down. Go back to bed, read, sleep, doze, don't get on with what needs to be done. Like for the past 48 hours. Just part and parcel of cptsd.

Thank you for warm and positive thoughts and hugs. I came on here to get some healing OOTS energy  - and here a gift from you right in my Journal :)  :hug:  :hug: 

 :bighug:  :bighug:

Thank you Moondance :hug:

I keep logging in to write and then logging out again, having not written. But now I'm finally writing. Deadlines combined with computer stuff makes for stress and I have the feeling I've been doing zero for days now. That isn't completely true.

I also feel ashamed, as in what would people think if they saw the mess in my apt, what would current LL say if he saw my unwashed kitchen floor since I'm just renting it, it really is his floor.

I came on hoping to rally some of my own resilience but now I think I'm just going to go to bed where it's warm since both outside and inside there's been a huge drop in temperature.

Hi.

 :heythere:

When I lived in my first home...there was a giant hole in the vinyl flooring in the kitchen. I decided we would be replacing the floor eventually so I wouldn't waste my time mopping it. I gave in about once a year. We didn't replace the floor till we moved out 10 yrs later. I bet your floor is not very shameful to any objective party.

It's warming up again, the sun has come out, thank goodness for that. I hope for no more 35°C, which is not typical of this climate at all, but it will be nice to have some autumn sun and some warmth in the late teens-early twenties.

I suppose I feel ashamed not just of my unwashed floor but the general unkemptness of my place and I ought to be mowing the lawn - it's my turn but I don't feel the wherwithal. Machines aren't my thing at the best of times. I'm not even washed myself which makes going downstairs to ask the neighbours difficult.

There's been some FOO stuff recently, which hasn't helped. In fact I have been very down, hiding under the bedclothes.

However I did make it to my psych doc's today and that helped somewhat. As I write on here I am also remembering things to do to come out of these phases e.g. what is the next easiest step I can take to help me stay up? The next easiest step I can take to get on with deadline things I need to do (by which I don't mean mowing the lawn)? Sitting at the computer is actually the step required in both of these and that is what I'm doing.

I can relate to remembering the next step to get out of whatever I'm in.

Good for you Blueberry

 :bighug:

Thank you Moondance :hug:

Things are still hard. I'm often teetering between what's actually helpful for staying upright and what might be beneficial but too much and what feels soothing but not quite a healthy way of going about it.

My occup. T helped me see how difficult things really are for me atm due to an event which shows that my elderly abuser/neglecter/enabler parents are going downhill and the conflicting emotions this brings for me. It showed me once again that my psych doc doesn't really get it with Parts. How wonderful that my occup. T does though! Idk how it is in other countries, but here a lot of an occup. T's work might be with children with developmental delays of various types so occup Ts will learn child development and child psychology and hopefully keep up to date with research and that is then helpful for understanding what's going on in somebody like me where there are Inner Parts thinking, doing, being. He said some more useful things today too but I don't seem to be able to write them down yet.

My occup. T also helped me see that "Considering what's all going on atm, I'm doing extremely well!"  I think before I went inpatient I decided to work on other stuff and not directly on FOO stuff, having already spent way too much of my therapy time (over years) and energy on them or on me trying somehow to fit in with them or set boundaries and be accepted etc. I think I recognised pre-inpatient that when FOO stuff comes back up again due to some event, then I'll go through it, but not try to deal in advance with very competent inpatient T. Makes sense to me. I couldn't have known that one parent would go downhill physically not long after I got back home from inpatient stay. My occup. T says considering how it's not really that long since I've been setting boundaries in FOO, it's not surprising that this has thrown me for a little bit of a loop. And especially I might add since FOO doesn't accept my boundaries. Asserting myself in FOO, setting a boundary and that kind of thing results in exclusion, in being thrown out of the group. And although in my intellect I can almost say 'good riddance to bad rubbish', that's not what my emotions are doing. And it's not what my Littles are doing.

Let's see if I can get down in words and in English words no less what other thing my occup. T said this morning. Children don't think in words, they think in images and emotions and all sorts, and it's often totally overwhelming. Like, words and right-wrong intellectual stuff is too small, it can't contain all what children experience. This is partly why adults cry at funerals or at some part of the grief phase - all these deep seated memories which often don't fit into words because they go back to a time when you didn't have an innate ability to understand and express in words - these memories come back when your parents are close to death and dying. They may be memories of felt unconditional love on the part of the child (child loves parent) and in cases like mine (and many on OOTS no doubt) also child NOT feeling reciprocal unconditional love cuz it wasn't available. 

To do with what my o.T was saying and how I was experiencing it in the moment, I understood better why the terrible heart-wrenching pain I experienced last time I was in FOO's company was a total overwhelm. I didn't just feel sad for a bit and shed a few tears, tears poured silently down my face in the daytime while FOO was around and at night I wept gut-wrenching pain all night more or less, because at night I didn't have to hide it. This heart-wrenching pain of: FOO doesn't give a hoot; FOO hasn't changed after all - they were just pretending and I fell for it; + undoubtedly heart-wrenching pain from younger BBs - this all tore at my soul and my heart. iirc some of what came up were these childhood thoughts in images and emotions and more-than-images. For me, that amount of crying is overwhelm. Or I suppose the amount of crying, tears, grief shows me that the emotions that came up were overwhelm. Yes, physically I come out the other side, but emotionally - not so much but this heart-wrenching: I can't contain it really. Others might find it healing, but for me it's too much. Needs to be let out slowly. Needs me NOT to have to go back through the pain. A little tears and grieving OK, but not that overwhelm.

I have made some progress today in setting new and healthier pathways in my brain to mark my relief at successful conclusion of a task :) I realise how much here also it's one step forwards, one step on the spot or even backwards. Some healthy steps today after task completion, some not so healthy.

Before task completion too. Showering is always difficult, but I did it and then felt more in my professional Adult of Today.

Same yesterday too actually when I was preparing for my professional appointment today, e.g. I printed out some papers and read them while walking around outside on the lawn and under the trees instead of remaining at the computer. The right-left movement helped unfreeze my thoughts and get a bit of creativity going. But I also took some habituated steps that are not that helpful, both yesterday and today.

Quote from: Blueberry on September 16, 2022, 04:33:08 PMFinally written and sent it. Turned out longer than I originally envisaged. I know my parents will find it abominably rude though really it's just very to-the-point.

They find anything I say or write 'rude' when I'm not bowing and scraping metaphorically-speaking.

... I spent ages on writing it and although it's not perfect and I had to semi-dissociate in order to do it and I still feel foggy after sending it, it's the best I could do. I know that FOO does not spend ages thinking what to say and write to me. On the contrary, they don't have any worries or concerns. They don't even have any concept of it being possible for them to be rude to me.

I'm just sick of it hanging over me, 'it' being writing and sending the missive.

I was reading back in a previous Journal of mine and found this from about a year ago. In a way, it seems very long ago that I finally wrote a very to-the-point missive to FOO and even though I had these realisations about 'rude' to FOO, the missive still resulted in a very positive change. Not of how FOO communicates with me per se but at least in action on the big topic this was all about. They stopped dragging their heels and are actually helping me out the way they had been promising but prevaricating on.

In a way it seems as if a lot has happened since then e.g. with my move, which also means I no longer have to struggle with old LL or neighbours who encroached on my boundaries with regularity.

Some of reading back in my journal from last year reminded me that when I am NOT getting on with things, there usually is a reason. I'm having to psych myself up for something and often I don't even know what.

I'm continuing to mostly not get on with things. It feels as if I have no goals. Also there's nothing to fight against any more and 'fighting against' kept me going. Of course logically you could say that I should then 'fight for' myself or for something good. But 'should' doesn't work for me. I lie in bed reading books I know more or less off by heart (because ones I don't know lead to too much anxiety) and doze off. I eat things that don't need to be cooked. Sometimes I make tea but mostly I can't even be bothered to do that, so I sometimes drink tap water.

I could have gone to the farm today, but stayed home to do some things which I in the end didn't do.

I used sometimes to wonder if I might end up in this kind of state - of just not caring any more.

I'm doing better now. We've just had Zoom Group 2 and connecting with fellow human beings by voice and sometimes video was helpful. Surprise, surprise. It's no surprise, but at the same time it seems harder for me than ever to connect with people in the outside world and also do the things you need to like even getting dressed half way decent.

The past couple of days I've been talking to imaginary furbabies in my head because I know having them kept me going. But I also know atm that looking after them would be too much.

I've known before that symptoms circle around like onion skins. I think I've worked through something, that I'm over it, and then it comes again. I'm not really using my whole apartment. I remember working with my old trauma T on expanding my body to take up space, first in his office but then imaginary in other places too like the garden and even on the street, where I lived before. And now it feels like I could be doing that in my apt. As a child, hiding away and creeping around the house, not speaking when I entered a room (which drove other people up the wall when I lived with others later) - all these things showed in my body language and they're not so easy for me to get rid of. Actually, I will speak to furbabies (mine or other people's) when I enter a room, but people - it's hit and miss. Not sure what it depends on - anxiety level maybe? But anyway, there are no furbabies in my apt atm but I hide away and creep about. So it's good I've finally made some sort of connection about it.

Blueberry, it's great that you seem to know what you are comfortable with at the moment. You sound a lot like me, and I know that acknowledging my own struggles can be difficult.

Thank you Bermuda :hug:

_________________

 :cheer:  :cheer:  :cheer:  Today I have so much wherewithal for doing certain things: cooked and ate carrots that definitely needed to be used up, washed my windows :)   (which look much better), more tidying and putting things away, listened to music while doing all of the above and sometimes stopped to move a little to the music, sang along with it too; did gardening and not just weeding but clearing more ground and actually planting stuff I brought over from my old garden. I haven't had an exhausted spell all day, no naps necessary :applause:

I'm not even finished my day in fact. I'm about to pack up my stuff to head to the farm in about an hour. Some work to do there this evening.

I was thinking about how I would explain "wherewithal" to somebody around here. I don't know that there's an expression for it in the local language. Maybe for me (and others on here) it's having some hours or a day without any EF or EF-iness? I believe there are degrees of EF: full-blown one, medium EF, 30% leftover, a little smidge leftover making things a little difficult, my sort of normal day-to-day. And then there are the odd days when things just flow. WOW :woohoo:         :cloud9:     :witch:     :yahoo:

Enjoy the productivity! And the downtime you'll DESERVE after.

Quote from: Armee on September 25, 2023, 01:08:22 PMAnd the downtime you'll DESERVE after.

Thanks, that's a really good reminder to me! Not lazy  :blahblahblah:  when I need downtime again! No, I DESERVE the downtime. ;D

Blueberry,

congratulations on your "wherewithal" today. I love that word, and haven't read it for a long time. Singing, dancing, cooking, eating, gardening! Woo! :yes:

This is so, so awesome for you Blueberry

 :hug:

Armee, it's a week later and I'm in a bit of downtime, so not as productive as last Sunday, though not completely unproductive either.

Thank you Lakelynn and Moondance for cheering me on.  :hug:  :hug:
Idk where I got the word 'wherewithal', but Idk what word to use otherwise. When I don't have the wherewithal, it's not just that I don't have the energy or the will or willpower or??

Quote from: Blueberry on September 15, 2023, 08:25:46 PMI'm continuing to mostly not get on with things. It feels as if I have no goals. Also there's nothing to fight against any more and 'fighting against' kept me going.

I was reading back in my Journal, looking for something else and came across the above quotation. I don't feel anything to fight against today either and there has been nothing the past few days but I still got quite a bit done and had enjoyable days. So that means that 'fighting against' is NOT the only thing that keeps me going. This is very important information for me.

I want to add a quote from a journalist on BBC: I've realised that on life's journey, if you find happiness in the banalities of day-to-day life, then it's usually a good place to stop and pitch your tent.

The journalist has some similarities with me. First-generation immigrant, so growing up in two different cultures and ending up moving around a bit, back and forth among several different countries. The first time I lived in my third country I found a lot of happiness and stability in the banalities of day-to-day life. I live permanently in that third country now. The past couple of days I was at the farm where I usually also find happiness in the banalities of day-to-day life. So do the farm people - whatever is going on in the world or on the farm, the cows still need to be milked... I'm not actually involved in that kind of work, but still so long as I manage to get to the farm, I wouldn't shirk my work because somebody else needs the prep work I do. And they're happy when I do it, and say so. They are happy being helped, I guess, and don't view it as banality. :)

I love that quote from the journalist. It reminds me of Buddhist monks. And that it's perfectly acceptable just to exist.

 :hug:

Trying to believe I'm currently in the downtime I DESERVE.

Having been there, you do deserve it.

Still in downtime. Don't even want to get out of downtime. Though I need to tomorrow. Have appointments, a good thing undoubtedly. I have to leave downtime eventually. I feel ashamed about the length of downtime.

On goals - today I'm feeling some interest in doing aquafitness at the local pool. I liked it whenever it was offered in inpatient settings and it certainly will save a bit of pressure on my joints and feet. Might not be possible this week time-wise, but I hope the week after.

I'm no longer quite so entrenched in downtime. I can feel a little change in me, somewhere deep down. Everything's not quite so difficult.

Today I went on a group excursion to a place I've been to before. I was glad of a group this time to trail along with, rather than travelling there with them and doing stuff on my own. To me, it's partially a warning - try and stay upright every day and do the best you can otherwise you'll be getting old before your time.

iow: look after yourself or a social worker will have to look after you.

On that note I'm logging out and am going to collect my dry laundry from the basement.  :)

Hi Blueberry,
You mentioned that you can feel a little change in yourself, somewhere deep down, and that everything's not quite so difficult - I just wanted to say  :cheer: to that. 

I also wanted to say that I hope you enjoy the Aquafit, if you do get to go there the week after. 

The group excursion also sounds good. 

 :hug:
Hope  :)

Quote from: Blueberry on September 15, 2023, 08:25:46 PMI'm continuing to mostly not get on with things. It feels as if I have no goals. ... I lie in bed reading books ... and doze off.

I could have gone to the farm today, but

I used sometimes to wonder if I might end up in this kind of state - of just not caring any more.

Ditto.

I even wrote a whole list of Goals, though I didn't entitle them as such. I read it through completely disinterested. I'm reading a novel which is new to me. It makes me a bit anxious.

I even considered going to the farm yesterday, but I prefer lying curled up in bed in the fetal position, sometimes warm, sometimes not so warm. Doing anything feels like a major effort, so mostly just lie in bed. Though I'm actually sitting up now and am no longer in bed.

I've given up for the moment. But nobody on here needs worry. As in my childhood, I'm far too lethargic and passive to do anything to myself. 

 :hug:

Thank you san, that means a lot.

I'm better on track. My occupational T was able to help me yesterday. He pointed out what I am managing and what goals I do have and am working on.

This morning I realised I am generally hard on myself though it doesn't help, and I am especially that way when things are tough.

I got quite a lot done yesterday morning and early afternoon. Then I needed a long break, slept several hours.

Today I've been able to keep going with my momentum. I did some gardening for LL. Whether the actual activity (raking leaves) was tiring somehow or something else, I didn't finish because I got tired. But then I changed activities and started doing some of my own gardening and really got on well with it, the chief activity being digging holes to plant my raspberries and 2 currant bushes. I was expecting to have to struggle because I always had a hard time getting the spade deep into the soil in my old place but in this part of this new garden it's much easier. When things are unexpectedly easy, it's an overall relief, which I really feel. Before I got too tired physically I stopped, which is good going on my part. I realise now that when I was doing work for LL, I got tired in a different kind of way. Maybe a little bit physically, but also something else, like probably wanting to get going with my own work but not recognising that in so many words. So those are some useful realisations.

From yesterday till today I also got lots of little stuff done - making appointments, basic self-care, taking all my meds and starting up with my Vit.D supplement - partially for my bones. It's important that I'm taking medium-term care of my body. Also made more space in my loft room by amalgamating some stuff and emptying boxes.

I feel better in general, more optimistic.

 :hug:

 :hug:

So glad to read you are in a good feeling stretch

Congrats not only on getting stuff done, but stopping within your boundaries. I resonate with going past my limits sometimes. It's great to see you're doing better!

Gentle hugs

Thank you Hope, Armee and CF  :hug:  :hug:  :hug: to all :)

I think what's going on atm is that I'm being mindful. I have ideas of what I'd like to do, impulses, but I'm better able to briefly stop and feel: Is that a correct action for me today or even rn? Or am I jumping the gun and that particular action might be better tomorrow after all? Am I having an impulse to do something today in order to make it easier for someone else but in so doing making it harder for me?

For example, last night I was planning what to do today, roughly. I thought Saturday is a day of rest, sort of, so I don't want to push myself to do too much and then be exhausted Sunday and Monday. I'm feeling better in general than the last weeks so want to go up to the farm on Sunday, which is somewhat strenuous - more than for example just staying at home reading. otoh it's meant to be really windy on Sunday and a bunch of people at the farm are unwell - colds, flu I expect + one Corona-positive, not sure if I want to stay overnight onto Monday and do my early morning work, because I don't want to get sick. The wind makes it harder for me to get there because of cycling at least part way, not just harder but potentially dangerous. (That's partly what else has been holding me back the previous weeks).

Today, Saturday, there aren't going to be these sudden huge gusts of wind so I could go up to the farm today and then come back home again before it gets dark and gusty. That way I could do at least the prep work that I usually do Sunday eve and that would be a help. And I could go and talk to the real pigs and maybe even the gpigs and that would be nice. otoh there are things to do in town today and I still can't decide what clothes to put on, nor do I even want to get dressed. It's good for me to take that into consideration and NOT just bulldoze myself. otoh it might be possible to leave a few Parts in bed and then get dressed. Maybe 5-10 years ago that helped sometimes for getting up in general. But then again impulses for things to do at home that I don't often have and maybe won't after the weekend or even tomorrow either, like a little more unpacking (from move!) and setting up, maybe putting up some pictures. That's often pretty strenuous emotionally so not something that I often have an impulse to do.

In smaller ways I'm being more mindful of impulses and whether I carry them out or not too. This way I feel that I'm actually getting more small stuff done but a little less jerkily meaning I don't have the feeling that I start one thing and then end up doing something else and then go back to the first etc. Instead I start and complete one small task and then tidy up. And then consider what next.

As a tool, I had my daily Highly Recommended/Could lists but now I've changed that a bit to a list of regular stuff that's helpful in keeping me stable and/or some harder stuff that I want to instigate for my physical health. I tick these off whenever I manage one and it helps me to see the check marks. My occupational therapist reminded me of that last week. Then I have a list of one-off things to do like go for an eye test which I did yesterday. There's other stuff on there where I know I 'should' do it, but should is never good for me so I'm waiting for an impulse of 'Now! / Today!' Maybe that impulse won't come for months and then that would be OK. It really is OK when certain things don't get done. I also write a daily list of Reasonable Expectations, I write the evening before as often as possible which is helpful for even getting up in the morning. 'Reasonable Expectations' help me not overload the list and also follow my healthy impulses. Again it's always good for me to tick those things that I manage - in green, works far better than whatever colour I use to write the list. As I write that, I realise that using green because it helps, is also being mindful :)    And changing the way I do my lists is also being mindful of what I need now, since my needs change and/or what's beneficial for me changes. Some old Tools don't work much anymore if at all.

Changing my lists is also Forging New Paths :yes:

Kudos to me :)  :applause:  :cheer:

This was really helpful for me to read Blueberry. Thanks for writing this out in detail. It gives me ideas for myself.

Blueberry said " think what's going on atm is that I'm being mindful. I have ideas of what I'd like to do, impulses, but I'm better able to briefly stop and feel: Is that a correct action for me today or even rn? Or am I jumping the gun and that particular action might be better tomorrow after all?" 

I think this is excellent, that you are being more mindful and intentional in your actions. I also have a tendency to jump from one thing to another myself, so this gives me food for thought.

Quote from: Armee on November 18, 2023, 03:10:54 PMThis was really helpful for me to read Blueberry. Thanks for writing this out in detail. It gives me ideas for myself.

Thanks for that Armee! It helps me to know that my long posts and detailed descriptions :whistling:  can aid others as well.

Thanks for your feedback too natureluvr

Just for the record and as much for myself as anybody else, being more mindful was not a conscious decision or even a goal, it's just one of these things that evolves in recovery because ???  ??? the time is right / enough other things have healed and resolve for this development to take place ??? or something like that or something else.

NTS: when you're really down and listless and no energy and can't remember any of your goals and even being reminded of them doesn't help, there is probably something working away in your subconscious and a breakthrough is going to come when the time is right :)

Quote from: Blueberry on November 22, 2023, 07:50:12 AMNTS: when you're really down and listless and no energy and can't remember any of your goals and even being reminded of them doesn't help, there is probably something working away in your subconscious and a breakthrough is going to come when the time is right :)

Helpful to read today.
Didn't get up till late.
Want to go back to bed and may even do so.

I'm writing this post for myself and I think it's better I don't get feedback on this particular one because some of what will probably come out is stuff that plenty of mbrs disagree with, I think.

NTS: when you're really down and listless and no energy and can't remember any of your goals and even being reminded of them doesn't help, there is probably something working away in your subconscious and a breakthrough is going to come when the time is right

I'm pretty down today and haven't done much except eat raw carrots, drink chocolate/cappuccino mix and have just had a bowl of yoghurt and oatflakes, which is healthy enough, except I added a bunch of sugar, which is not. And then lie in bed and read/doze. I wrote a list last night but haven't followed it at all. Part of me thinks the above quote (NTS) is possible. Another part of me thinks I really should get my act together otherwise I'll be spending my life in bed reading and dozing and I feel partially shame about that and then cognitively I also know it's not the best. But there's a HUGE part in me atm that says I DON'T CARE!!! That bit needs to be expressed. I feel sad. I remember now there's often 'something else' beneath the want to give up or beneath self-destructive or angry feelings. My worry is that I'm going steadily downhill, ingraining more and more depressive and give-up behaviour even though sometimes a breakthrough does come, like automatically being more mindful, but I need to work more at the breakthroughs to make them last. Need, must, should - none of that works for me though. I don't think it's going to be helpful for me to hear/read other mbrs agreeing with my worry in this para, which would be agreeing with need, must, should.

:sunny:  thinking of you....

Thank you Larry! Thanks also for sending sunshine. It's sunny here today though that wasn't part of the weather forecast.

 :hug:

 :hug:

Thank you Armee and Hope.

I talked to a friend irl yesterday and it helped. At least I bothered getting up this morning and have managed the shower and hairwash hurdle.

I'm glad you were able to talk to a friend, and that it helped.

 :grouphug:

 :cheer:  I'm glad you were able to talk to a friend.

Thank you all. :hug:

Keeping going atm is really hard.

I have managed some things though.

 :hug:

Spent the night tossing and turning - feverish. So now I'm physically sick. Either a really really bad cold or Corona. Haven't done the test yet, not urgent because I'm not well enough to leave the house anyway.

I may come on the forum if I feel lonely, otherwise no worries about me.

Aw I'll be a little worried so I hope you are well enough to check in.  :grouphug:

Feel better soon and rest with no guilt or should.

I hope you feel better soon.  :grouphug:

Thank you Armee and NK :hug:  :hug:

Much improved physically. I'm taking lots of rest.

Emotionally... there's quite a lot going on.

 :hug:

I'm glad to hear you're getting plenty of rest and feeling better physically. I hope the emotional side of things improves, too.

Thanks...

The emotional side is more longer-term stuff, maybe. Stuff I'm ruminating on. Some maybe 'just' an age thing like I'm in my 50's but it looks to me as if I really can't work anymore so I feel like 50-odd going on 75. Especially since I don't seem capable of really looking after myself or of enjoying myself the way functional retired people do. So it feels to me as if my life is at an end. Also a lot of memories, not necessarily bad but nonetheless of times in FOO countries, of things like grandparents' homes. Don't they say your childhood comes back when you're old? Or when you get dementia? Or even your life passes through your mind again just before you die? Sorry to be morbid. There's actually no reason for me to keel over and die.

Today I got a call from a fellow patient from the clinic this year. She's being re-admitted next week and knows of a number of others who aren't doing too well either... She was there because of trauma, I don't know about the 'others'. It kind of buoyed me up hearing from somebody who relates to "I'm not really doing anything much atm". I usually use "atm" to mean a lot longer frame of time than "moment", I'm not sure if everybody does. So not really doing much for months is what it feels like, in fact not much since I came home. otoh today I planned to do a covid test, set the dishwasher in motion and one other thing that has escaped my memory. I set the dishwasher in motion and it took me three occasions to remove the clean dishes and put them away. I wasn't too tired, I just felt too awful for want of a better word, though that's not quite right either. I suppose to go back to my other word, I simply didn't have the wherewithal somehow. I often don't have the wherewithal and so although it may feel as if I've done nothing since coming home, I've often done as much as I could.

Ah yes, Armee, good point - Should is never good for me. I have been 'shoulding' myself recently. Including 'should be able to keep going till next summer' rather than going back inpatient before then, which I've felt like a few times. 

Hi Blueberry,
I have only just seen that you've been feeling ill, I am so sorry that you haven't been very well - and I really hope you feel better very soon.  Wishing you the best for recuperating and taking lots of rest.  :hug:

I have literally just put an entry in my journal where I mentioned not doing anything related to 'should' - and I found it very validating to see you make that very same point here in your journal.  It was like serendipity! 

I also wanted to say to you that I've read some things you've been writing in other parts of the forum lately, and I really value all that your write - it really helps me a lot to read what you write.  I wanted you to know that. 

Hope  :)

I am doing quite a lot better today :)

Quote from: Blueberry on December 08, 2023, 11:56:53 PMtoday I planned to do a covid test, set the dishwasher in motion and one other thing that has escaped my memory. I set the dishwasher in motion and it took me three occasions to remove the clean dishes and put them away. I wasn't too tired, I just felt too awful for want of a better word.

One concrete example of doing better - today I set the dishwasher in motion again and I was able to remove the clean dishes and put them away all in one go! It was just so much less strenuous than 3 days ago. And in fact I emptied the dishwasher round about doing other things, like making myself a salad and then a small warm meal. That would've been impossible 3 days ago.

Thank you for your words Hope  :hug:  :hug:  to you.

That's great. Especially the food prep.

There is a trend here for people to have two dishwashers side by side. They never empty, just run them alternately and take clean dishes out as they want them. Sounds quite tempting if one had the space and budget.

Quote from: NarcKiddo on December 12, 2023, 01:31:58 PMThere is a trend here for people to have two dishwashers side by side. They never empty, just run them alternately and take clean dishes out as they want them.

;D  ;D

I have neither the space nor the budget. But actually if I had the space, I'd rather have a bigger sink and more drainboard! What I do have is very cramped, so I have various washing up bowls under a cupboard full of things too large for dishwasher or otherwise unsuitable and I sort of don't get on with washing them that often :whistling:  Before I lived here, one of the fairly easy things for me to get going again with (after a few days or week or... of an EF) was dish-washing, whereas here it's difficult and doesn't have the same good effect on me on me afterward. I think partly because I don't do this whole lot all at once with my hands in nice warm water etc etc. I mean, I can't! I don't have the space so I do a little at a time which doesn't give me the same sort of euphoric feeling.

Live and learn. This is the first time I have ever had a dishwasher. 

Quote from: Blueberry on November 22, 2023, 07:50:12 AMNTS: when you're really down and listless and no energy and can't remember any of your goals and even being reminded of them doesn't help, there is probably something working away in your subconscious and a breakthrough is going to come when the time is right :)

A good reminder for myself today!!

I was also reading back in this Journal and remembered what was all going on internally in the few weeks towards the end of my inpatient stay and in the weeks after I left and how I didn't really have the space or ability to process all of it. And then I hear from my psychiatrist last week that he's against me going back inpatient or that if I do then it should only be for a short time because it's time to learn to progress as an outpatient and basically that the health care system only has so much money. While reading my Journal just now, I'm thinking at psycho doc: "You realise this is trauma we're talking here?!?" What he unfortunately doesn't realise is the degree of dissociation because he doesn't actually understand it. Unfortunately he's also the best psychiatrist round here for me. He used to work in the inpatient place I was in but that's no huge recommendation. The trauma Ts there have more clue than the psychiatrists about trauma, especially about the more complex cases on the dissociative spectrum, like me.

Should doesn't do me good, not even coming from a doctor or therapist. In fact the opposite.

I am grateful that the medical system pays so much here but I'm not sure why my psychiatrist thinks he needs to dissuade me from going inpatient when things are plainly very difficult. I'm not sure what I could or should have done in the past to not allow things to get in this state. 

I'm really frustrated with your psychiatrist. It really isn't fair to say what he has given that you are not receiving appropriate treatment outpatient. If the only way to get the appropriate trauma therapy is at the inpatient center than he has no business telling you you need to manage on your own. That's his own ignorance.

I don't understand the inpatient system and I expect it varies from place to place anyway. I can see the point of having a goal of being a permanent outpatient (or even not a patient at all - wouldn't that be nice?). But I don't see how piling guilt on someone is helpful.

I am sorry your psychiatrist is being difficult.

 :hug:

Thank you Armee and NK for responding.

I don't know what to think about this at all.

I'm in 'give up' mode, I even went into hibernation over Christmas, just lay in bed dozing and reading and eating the edibles I got for Christmas.

I feel ashamed of giving up.

 :grouphug:

It's OK. The giving up is not permanent. Rest up, as needed. When you have the energy and the right set of parts present, you'll get the things done that need to be done.

Thank you Armee. The giving up is fairly constant though. I'll get going again for a day or day and a half and then give up again. I might get going again once a week or once every two weeks. I don't have the feeling that my meds help though I am taking them atm.

I used to have a bucket list. Now I've tried everything on it and/or realised I can't do it actually so I don't feel I have any goals left. Don't worry, SI is not an issue. I give up instead, that's where I am now.

Quote from: Blueberry on December 24, 2023, 12:55:11 AM

Quote from: Blueberry on November 22, 2023, 07:50:12 AMNTS: when you're really down and listless and no energy and can't remember any of your goals and even being reminded of them doesn't help, there is probably something working away in your subconscious and a breakthrough is going to come when the time is right :)

A good reminder for myself today!!

6 days later and a big chunk of breakthrough has come through. I just need to believe in myself, have faith that the breakthroughs will come.

 :cheer:  :cheer:  :cheer:

so glad to hear this, blueberry. breakthroughs and/or realizations can take a lot of energy to show themselves. love and hugs :hug:

Quote from: Blueberry on December 26, 2023, 04:45:50 PMI used to have a bucket list. Now I've tried everything on it and/or realised I can't do it actually so I don't feel I have any goals left.

That was definitely an EF, I am glad to say.

Just the fact that I managed to do some tidying and few other bits of housework today shows me I have some goals, even just to feel better which I do in some way when I take better care of my surroundings. There are a few other goals at least in my mind. I'm not writing them down atm, they're too fragile for want of a better word, but I believe I'll be able to write them soon.  :)

Hi Blueberry,

I just wanted to say congratulations for managing to come out of your EF. That sounds like a good accomplishment.

Sending you support,
dolly

Thank you Dolly! :) It was an accomplishment, because looking back that was a pretty bad EF.

I managed to get on with even more things yesterday though at some point I had to stop. Here and no further kind of thing.

Today's a new day and I've already found an important piece of paper I had mislaid. IF I made New Year's Resolutions, I'd make one to always file papers in their proper place as soon as I receive them (whether actual paper or emailed documents), but I no longer make New Year's Resolutions because I can't keep them. That one about filing? I've made it before and as an NYR, it doesn't help.

I do have some Goals though. Trying to write them in my Paper Journal.

Quote from: Blueberry on January 06, 2024, 05:44:17 AMToday's a new day and I've already found an important piece of paper I had mislaid.

 :cheer:  :hug:

Hi Blueberry. Mostly dropping in to say hello.

I find paperwork to be very challenging. I don't understand a lot of the financial information and I'm not sure what needs to be saved. I just shredded a bunch of papers. Hopefully nothing that I will need!  :stars:

Thanks for commenting, Not Alone. It is as usual reassuring to know that I'm not alone with a symptom.

________________

Somehow I managed to jigger my back. Well, it will have to do with my feet throwing everything but I'm not sure why my feet suddenly got so bad again. Sitting at the computer is one of the worst things, so I'll be taking a little break. Fortunately I have physio tomorrow morning anyway. :wave:

Oh, no. I hope the physio can ease things for you.  :hug:

blueberry, i hope you get some relief thru your physio.

by the by, paperwork for me is also a chore, sometimes nearly impossible, always nerve-wracking.  well done on finding a paper you misplaced.  it counts.  love and hugs :hug:

Oh, sorry to hear about your back. I've experienced back pain and I know how debilitating and painful it can be. I hope you feel better soon.

Thanks everybody :grouphug:  It has certainly been getting better. Can get about without crutches now. Pain is far less.

Joint pain can be menopausal, that could explain knees and hips and shoulders, not sure about back though. otoh there's that armouring which also explains a lot. Lots of supreme stiffness and very hardened muscles in gluteus maximumus. As I've written before, English word is triggering, Latin is not triggering.

Downward mood swing can also be menopausal, time I got an appointment at gynaecologist's to sort out what might be in addition to cptsd.

Hi Blueberry,
 :hug: I haven't caught up with your journals yet, but can see you're experiencing pain (although glad it is less than before) - sending you a gentle hug and I hope to read your journals properly later, and catch up on what has been happening.

Just wanted to pop by and say 'hi' for now.
Hope  :)

Quote from: Blueberry on January 21, 2024, 05:04:52 PMDownward mood swing can also be menopausal, time I got an appointment at gynaecologist's to sort out what might be in addition to cptsd.

Apparently I haven't been to my gynaecologist's for over 10 years... I'm no longer in their computer system, they're full, I have to look for a new gyn. Phoned one place and was put on hold for a while, then the recording "try later", the other place gave the same recording right away and then that was the end of my wherewithal. I've come onto OOTS to re-regulate by writing since I realise that here is my go-to tool for getting out of dysregulation. I know I've been putting off going for my cancer check-ups for "a while" but hadn't realised it's been longer than 10 years.

So it's probably going to take a bit longer to figure out whether my exhaustion and all that could be menopausal! In fact, my old GP who is more or less retired but not quite might have more idea because he has a very global way of looking at symptoms and he has known me for a long time. Not that I don't need to find a new gyn. doctor for cancer-screening. I do.

I have a couple of little creative projects planned for today and what better way to get me re-regulated than at least starting one or the other??

Oh, Blueberry. How irksome.

I hope you feel up to starting one of your planned projects and then feel the benefit from it. But if you don't - you don't. One good aspect of creative projects, I find, is that they sit waiting for you, quite contentedly, until you are ready for them.

I was glad to read from an earlier message that the pain is improving and you can now get about without crutches. I am no stranger to hardened muscles and armouring. As you say, that explains a lot, and so much made sense when I came across the term. I went to see an osteopath years ago and he commented that my back was like concrete. Which it is, and remains so despite my seeing a massage therapist once a month. I think she does help keep it under some control but the sessions are not particularly pleasant.

 :grouphug:

Thanks NK :)  :hug:

No creativity so far except the flower-arranging I mentioned on 3 Good Things, but I have had the wherewithal for a few others things including listening to 1 1/2 sessions on the Trauma Conference and then listening to and doing half of a meditation on the Conference. I yawned almost non-stop till tears poured down my face. That's not sadness, it's something being released and it's good-but-exhausting which is why I allowed myself to stop after 10 minutes.

I'm also reminding myself there are 2 creativity projects happening this evening anyway and I need to keep up my stamina to manage them. Once is the final rehearsal for a little spot of acting I and about 9 other people are putting on this coming Saturday. Grand total of about 5 minutes acting, but still, I want to make the most of it! Our little show is to be the first in the rehearsal - how nice, because then I can head off to choir practice! Music, singing - they're part of creativity, even if I don't do any creative singing or really express myself. But still much different from all this head-activity - think, think, think, ruminate - I go in for. And at least my body gets involved in an aware way.  :)

Hi Blueberry,
I enjoyed reading about your creativity projects.  I hope your rehearsal goes well and that the acting will go well on Saturday.  Exciting!  I hope you enjoy your singing too.
Hope  :)

Thanks Hope  :)   It all went well and was really enjoyable last night! Except the creativity projects are still in the conception phase ;)

_____

My computer is making problems atm so I might not be on the forum much in the next few days. It's usually OK for about 5-10 minutes and then there are some terrible noises :aaauuugh:  So I shut it down.

I hate when computers do that!

 :grouphug:

Hey presto :cheer:  Today it's fine. Obviously it was preventing me from trying to watch any Trauma Conference sessions yesterday, knowing that was too much for me. When I don't listen to my body, the computer takes over apparently ;D

 :cheer:

I'm going to be off the forum for a little while. An elderly friend has just died and I note that doing anything on the computer other than informing others is just an escape from feeling grief.

 :bighug:

I'm so sorry for your loss Blueberry.

Sorry for your loss. I'll be thinking of you as you work through your grief.

i'm with the others on this, blueberry. so sorry for your loss - my heart is with you while you grieve.  love and hugs :hug:

Thank you Armee, NK and san.

I can't grieve all the time. Instead I slipped into other ways of non-feeling.  :thumbdown:

Hi Blueberry,
My sincere condolences on the death of your friend.   :hug:
Hope

Thank you Hope  :hug:

___________________

These are notes of mine on Decode your Trauma from Alex Howard. https://www.decodeyourtrauma.com/optin1670336523317  I wrote them up on a thread I made under Resources/...../Podcasts, Videos, Documentaries

I didn't want to write my own reactions over there, so putting the notes and my reactions here instead, reactions in [   ]:

Heard of Big T and Small T trauma? Those are out-of-date designations for what are now called Overt and Covert. Covert can be worse in its impact because of not being recognised as trauma by practitioners and others.

We have 3 core emotional needs: boundaries, safety, love.  [Astounded to see boundaries here! Hadn't realised it's an emotional need :aaauuugh: ] Emotional boundaries could also be defined as 'delineation between self and others', they help us say Yes or No to others and to ourselves. If you have difficulty committing to yourself and following through with what you know to be healthy for yourself, then probably your core emotional need for boundaries was not met in childhood. [Big lightbulb went on here for me! That's why so many things are so difficult for me - from fasting, the 'positive' fasting I intended for Lent, (probably even getting out of bed on a daily basis), not just reading but also implementing what I find in books etc. on healing, just to name a few examples - it's so hard to say YES to myself and to what I know would do me good. It was a question I had last time in inpatient therapy. My T either didn't know or thought it was too early to tell me / suggest. Which is fine, I'm not criticising how careful she is with me. Saying yes to myself over my needs, my progress etc being so difficult could also mean that when I do do it, it throws me back into EFs, despite being good for what I want to change and good for my recovery. That mechanism has happened before too. Then need to find a healthy balance, but my healthy balance is what looks like minute steps on the outside.] 

Love as an emotional need is not achieved by 'knowing' you were loved, it had to be a 'felt' sense of being loved e.g. your parents were interested in you, they were interested in doing things with you that interested you, not just things that interested them. [That would also mean that merely being told you were loved, called 'darling', 'pet' etc wouldn't be enough, it wouldn't give you a felt sense unless those words were embedded in some more of the real stuff. As for those of us who didn't even 'know' we were loved, well... no wonder we have cptsd.]

These 3 core emotional needs are needs, they are not wishes, luxury etc. [This doesn't come as a huge surprise to me the way boundaries are a core emotional need does but it helps me see beyond all those FOO denials of parents can't be perfect :blahblahblah:  :blahblahblah:  :blahblahblah: . I also noticed during these videos of Alex Howard's how important it is for me to keep hearing variations of trauma education. It helps restore a bit of my resiliency (which gets eroded due to day-to-day life, memories, Inner Critic...) and it helps me keep going, gives me a bit of reason to keep going, restores a bit of my belief in myself etc. It is NOT a waste of time. I often think I should be on the forum less for my own sake but typing up notes here or reading around old, old posts including my own is something like trauma education. No wonder it helps me. Those activities are far more beneficial than some stuff I do e.g. SH, overeating, lying in bed for days on end!!  NTS: there was that should again ;) ]

When we become more resilient, we feel more but are impacted less, so resiliency doesn't mean we become hardened. [Feel more, impacted less is part of pathway to healing I guess. Window of tolerance expands.]

Our nervous systems normalised what went on during the trauma events, so that way we learned to do what our environment wanted. We tend to continue to recreate the environment we were in.  [Another lightbulb for me: that's why it's so difficult for me to set my apt up and keep it nice, tidy etc!! My parents didn't do that in my childhood much. They were waiting for some future occurence where they would deem setting up as 'worth it'. This 'worth it' didn't happen till I was in my teens, and then only briefly - not long enough to change my emotions and nervous system on this. I presume my nervous system was normalised to 'setting up is dangerous because M doesn't want to set up, the very idea makes her angry or even fills her with rage' so setting up sends me into EFs - frozen, don't DO anything. I made some of that correlation long since but didn't realise the emotional depth to which it goes and why it's so hard to take those steps, and has been with every move I made. And also why getting help setting up is pretty strenuous too and why it can take me years to set up.]

An important pathway to healing is to try and change that environment now. [Known this for a long time, but it's difficult for me to do. NTS: Small steps!! Baby steps count. Baby steps have most chance of sticking and continuing. I hadn't been anticipating how much moving would throw me for a loop and how long it would take me to set up and also to settle into a new place, into household routines etc, but moving did throw me for a loop and it's where I am now. There's reasons behind it; it's not indolence contrary to what ICr in the voice of F is saying and has been for a while and what F did in person in my teen years.]

Wow. Thank you for this, Blueberry.

So much of this is switching on lightbulbs for me, too.

Thanks NK, I'm happy my notes are helpful for someone else :)

Blueberry,

There is a lot of good information in this journal entry, and so true. Thanks for sharing it. The point that hit me the most was when you said that it's one thing to know we're loved, and another to feel that love. That's a monumental distinction.

I'm so impressed with the 5 day course (videos of about 30-50 minutes content each day plus worksheets, which I filled in in my head only) that I'm considering signing up for the 12 week course on re-aligning the nervous system.

I think it might just be the answer as to why I often feel so stuck. I know this is very personal, but I like the way Alex H. presents and speaks. I seem to be able to learn from him. There's some man for instance who does free embodiment seminars (with the hope you'll buy his books or join his non-free seminars) and I just don't like his way of speaking or his attitudes to certain types of people. I wouldn't want to join his course. He likes to be up-front - read: rude, a bit abrasive and -if-you-don't-like-this-then-don't-join-my-course. BB thinks: Thanks for the warning, I won't ;-)

I've also discovered that I do learn better and probably might even practise better or do more homework when I have person-to-person contact, even if via a video online rather than real in-person contact. I've been reading up on stuff for years. But now I tend to drift off a bit and/or I read the books but don't do the exercises. My preferred way of learning might have changed? People, like a couple of voice teachers, had the impression I want or even almost need somebody to work with me directly. I can imagine what inner children might be involved there and why it's difficult for me to keep going with the inbetween steps of practising between lessons. I certainly know that I need to engage with the new material in different ways from how we did in school back in the 70's and 80's. 

The other thing is that Alex H. even mentions this kind of difficulty of keeping going (saying YES to yourself and needs and plans and desires) in conjunction with missing emotional boundaries in childhood.

He also mentioned during the fourth or fifth day how much you need to reset your nervous system in order to really be able to move forward with your healing steps. It seems like if your nervous system hasn't been reset, you have to work far, far harder on trauma processing and you get more EFs to throw your system out of whack.

Of course maybe I'm just succumbing to his arguments for joining his course :aaauuugh:  Get kind of worried about that when I start making my plans public because of stuff-in-childhood. M announced how gullible I was as a child, for not believing all those family myths about how terrible I was, or for just questioning the odd thing. (Supposedly gullible because I'd heard mbrs of widespread FOO saying slightly different things from nuclear FOO...) But it hurt to hear that word in the tone of voice she used.

blueberry, to my mind, if you think it fits for you, could be helpful, why not sign up?  does re-setting your nervous system make sense to you? do you know what that exactly means? (i'm afraid i don't) i hope he's explained that part to your satisfaction.  the other, more down-to-earth part is finances, if you can afford to lose that money w/o it harming you financially.  i guess i tend to look at things as realistically as possible (when i can) and am passing that on.  hope that's not offensive.

i totally get the idea of being able to relate to one speaker and not another cuz of presence, voice tone, attitude, other intangibles.  go w/ your gut is my unsolicited suggestion.

love and hugs :hug:

BB

I'm awake again at 2 AM. This morning, I was thinking about how I have been treated like a gullible fool by so many people. Then I opened this journal entry and saw the same thought referenced in your entry. It always surprises me when I see the entanglement of our collective healing journeys.

I remember, wayyyyyy back in the 1990s, when I was in a factory job, and I told one of my "friends" there that I was exploring another way to try and get over my daily mood swings. I think it was hands-on healing. Reiki, they called it. A little later I overheard a couple of other "friends" laughing and saying, "Have you heard what Jimmy's into now?" Trigger! My own FOO used to just roll their eyes at me because I was trying one more healing technique. But Dog Gone it! THAT's what we HAVE to do to get through this.

When people ask, "Why can't you just let it go?" I now respond with, "When I figure it out, I'll let you know." My former response was "Well, let's see: If 7 college educated therapists, a dozen hypnotherapists, massage therapists, acupuncturists, hundreds of doctors over the years, every mood leveling drug invented so far, and thousands of self-help books don't know why I can't 'just let it go', then how am I supposed to know why I can't 'just let it go'?"

It's been my experience that those of us who keep trying every new technique are the ones who are getting the help we need. It may seem like we only get a teaspoonful of help for every gallon of effort we put into it, but that's a teaspoonful better than giving up and letting this condition erase us altogether.

I agree with San. If it feels good, do it. If it feels wrong, don't. I was once advised: "Follow your heart. It will lead you if you let it." We each respond differently to the various help that is available. And if something feels right for where we are at this moment, then maybe it is just what we need at this moment. And if it feels wrong, then we can put it on the back burner, and try it another day when it does feel right.

Thanks san and PC. I do have a good feeling about the course. It was good to write that gullible thing down to help me realise how much that is past FOO stuff, not reality. For me it is a bit of a chunk of money but not more than I have paid for intensive healing retreats of 3-4 days. This would be less intensive but covering a longer period of time and I hope something that would help me get into practice mode. Regular, even daily, practice even if just 5-10 minutes. Anyway, there are fewer healing retreats available than say 5 years ago, also I think steady, regular therapeutic work is the name of the game for me. And if my one-on-one T finally starts up, this program would be something to build on in T.

I do know what he means with re-aligning or re-setting your nervous system but no wherewithal to explain rn. Once my nervous system is at least better aligned, I'd be better able move on with other steps whether EMDR or 'just' sitting with feelings.

Due to my inadequacies with computer, especially internet, I'm still waiting to find out how I could pay w/o asking friends to do the transaction for me. I don't want to do the latter rn because the only friends I could ask are up to their neck in all sorts atm too. So waiting to see what the support team says.

I can feel the excitement in your words around participating in this course.

I'm excited now to hear all about it once you do it.

And I hate paying for things online too. I would rather write a check at the door. That's a technology I'm used to.

Actually I didn't get around to going to the bank before I went down with something. It turns out it's not Covid but 'just' raised temperature with sore throat. And tired, so tired. Certainly not well enough to go to the bank, or do any online courses.

Lots of  :zzz:  :zzz:  :zzz:

But I also check my emails and here on OOTS so as to not get too lonely.

 :grouphug:

Thank you Armee :hug:

I'm not physically unwell anymore, just emotionally. In profound state of 'do nothing, give up'.

However, I turned over a card from a stack of emotional recovery cards and found: "The question is not Why, it is Why not!  No question mark, so it's not even a question! It does appeal to me today in a 'just go and do stuff!' kind of way, rather than any kind of philosophical 'Why am I not...?'

 :yeahthat:  :grouphug:

Quote from: sanmagic7 on February 23, 2024, 03:23:13 PMblueberry, to my mind, if you think it fits for you, could be helpful, why not sign up?  does re-setting your nervous system make sense to you? do you know what that exactly means? (i'm afraid i don't)

Re-aligning/re-setting your nervous system refers to getting more and more out of Freeze and Fight/Flight and into Safe & Social, which he bases on Steve Porges' poly-vagal theory. It makes sense to me.

This week I'm tracking my nervous system to see which of the three states I'm in during my waking hours. No Safe & Social so far. This is the first homework in the 12 week course.

Unfortunately I discovered today that I took the wrong evening meds the other day :stars: but at least this explains in part why I did zero today - lay in bed mostly sleeping with strange dreams, no stranger than normal for me after the correct medication though. No worries, nobody needs suggest I go to the doctor's.

Hi Blueberry,
It's so great that you're doing that course - I hope it goes really well. 

Sorry to hear you took the wrong evening meds the other day - I hope you feel better as time goes on.  (I would never suggest you go to the doctor's - I have a phobia about doing just that!) (I mean about going to the doctor myself)...

I really appreciate Steve Porges' Poly-vagal theory - it is amazing.

Sending a supportive hug to you Blueberry.   :hug:

Hope  :)

Quote from: Papa Coco on February 27, 2024, 05:59:24 PMI can feel the excitement in your words around participating in this course.

I'm excited now to hear all about it once you do it.

I have started the course. Finally, in earnest, today. That is, I've dedicated a notebook for writing stuff, especially homework / being honest with myself + whatever else comes up and/or occurs to me. I might sometimes write about something on here or more likely on my private Journal but nothing like the notes I sometimes write up on freebie sessions over here https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?board=272.0

Among other things, you have to pay for this course so I don't think it's fair to share all that information around. This is my view, other people may see it differently. Please no discussion of that here on my Journal.

More importantly for me, doing this course is part of my attempt to improve my self-discipline of doing things for ME, of taking those healing steps regularly, making a habit out of them, getting back up again and setting off again when I've fallen on my nose or just stopped practising for whatever reason. 

I may be on the forum a little less as I try to make space for healing steps and the exercises and daily practice in the program. I'll see how that all works out and how I progress. :)

I am so happy you have started the course and wish you much healing as you progress through it.

 :grouphug:

I won't discuss my agreement with you about sharing paid content. 😉

But I will say whatever you feel like sharing about how it's going personally for you, I'd love to read and gain inspiration from. Gentle support, no judgement or shoulds here. Your "why not!" card made me smile.   

Thank you NK and Armee!

Yes, I might share how it's going for me, Armee, though a lot of that may also end up on real paper in my notebook. Wrote 5 or 6 pages yesterday. But yes I may write general trends and progress on here or maybe in my mbr journal. I'll see.

______________

The following maybe belongs in Sleep or Medication but as I think it's more self-reflection than discussion, I'm putting it here.

I'm back on Quetiapin half-dosage, so about 12mg, for sleep problems. Now instead of lying awake half the night reading in bed/doing crosswords or sitting at computer and then not being able to get up in the morning due to 3-4 hours sleep, I take my dosage anytime between 8 and 10pm, fall asleep shortly after (certainly before midnight), tend to wake up round about 7am but really groggy and fall asleep again and get up sometime in the afternoon. I'm so tired and sleepy, I don't know if I got up and took my 2 different day meds or not. My brain is too fuzzy to even know what those are.

One of the reasons psych doc put me back on Quetiapin (after I gave up on them myself after misunderstanding that they were only for really bad phases - they're not, they're for every night) was the amount of depression I feel - no goals, no reason to get up, no reason to live, no reason to do anything, except lie in bed and doze and read. But it seems I'm doing that with these meds too, just a lot more dozing and sleeping than reading. On top of that, my anxiety is up and my dreams are more anxiety-filled than normal. In my dream a couple of nights ago I had somebody spending the night who couldn't look after herself and it is somebody I care about tho not FOO, she disappeared and instead of looking for her properly and/or letting the police/SAR know, I went back to bed and thought I'd deal with it in the morning and by then it was too late :aaauuugh:   The dream is following me around now, sequels.

I'm wondering if it's worth it. My anti-deps Citalopram seem to have no bad effects on me, nor do my pills for low thyroid. So it's worth taking them obviously, though I'm not sure if I did today. I'm just not big on putting chemicals in my body especially since sometimes the side-effects are what the drugs are supposed to get rid of. At least, that was my experience with an itchy skin medication - it was so bad on a public holiday I had to go to Emergency. Yes, it's not very scientific to base my idea on side-effects on one example. There are other side-effects to Quetiapin, for me anyway, like shaking a little. On Friday I did get up in the afternoon and do some stuff like go to a funeral and I was weak on my feet and a bit shaky. Not because the deceased person was so close to me, she wasn't.

Anyway, I'm going to try to get hold of my previous GP who is more or less retired and see if he can't suggest something better for me, something natural, which I could then discuss with psych doc. My previous GP would also find it very important to discuss why I'm not sleeping, why I don't seem to want to fall asleep. Much bigger picture than throw some medicine down the hatch. If necessary, yes! - like my thyroid meds. He will probably remember that my body reacts overly-strongly to some stuff. When I was inpatient the psych nurses regularly handed out 20 drops of something I've forgotten the name of or maybe just 10 drops to try out - something soothing for when you're agitated. I felt pushed into taking it once actually and more or less fell into bed after taking it. I did sleep but with full-on nightmares. I would rather have been awake and sorting through what had happened in my head. They did put a note in my file about not giving me much again. I took it once more when I really couldn't sleep but said - 2 drops max. Those 2 drops worked. Here they try and stop me sorting things through in my head - ruminating, brooding. But maybe that's just part of who I am rather than something to be got rid of? I started really early as a child due to what was happening in FOO - wondering "Why me? Why don't my parents want me?" etc. Nowadays I think I often do ruminate myself into a solution of sorts, so it's not so bad really. Especially better than taking psycho chemicals with unhelpful side-effects.

Anyway, enough on that. My thinking processes are slowed down too. But I will go and do today's course work. I suppose it's possible that the course work is having an affect on me already and that's tiring.

I'm with you on the dislike of taking drugs. I would rather have a headache than take paracetamol. I would rather have a sore knee than take an anti-inflammatory. In my case it is (I think) because I want to know what is going on with my body. For so long I had to suppress everything that maybe now feeling *something* is better than nothing, even if that something is not pleasant.

That said, some drugs are without question beneficial or necessary, as you have said in different words above. So I hope you can work out what drug regime is best for you. Sleep is vital to our wellbeing, but it needs to be restorative sleep. And it seems to me that if sleep drugs are messing with your other drug routines then that is probably a consideration to factor in. I am sure you have already thought of this aspect and I am sorry if I have said too much.

I hope the course work goes well today.

 :grouphug:

Stayed up half the night again. So I didn't take Quetiapin because it was just too late. Slept from 3am to 10am. I'm not sure how deeply. I was still tired when I got up and took my thyroid med. Made myself some tea and went back to bed. But fortunately I wasn't sleepy so I got up again :thumbup: and have been up ever since doing various things, mostly useful to some extent. Had breakfast, took Citalopram. I feel a lot better than when after Quetiapin! The tiredness I felt when I got up this morning feels so different and much better than after Quet., where it's not tiredness per se, it's a heaviness and inability to stay awake and slow thinking and difficulty dredging up things I actually know like the names of my meds. It took me ages last night to come up with the name Citalopram, just as a minor example.

Psych doc says that lack of deep quality sleep will be contributing to my feeling of 'nothing to live for, no goals'. I think more, it could be, but it might not be. It might be something completely different but it's easier to prescribe medication than arrange even more therapy for me to look at why. There's been enough stuff going on - realisations and deaths and bad news and even big changes last year undoubtedly still reverberating - that could cause a huge EF of 'nothing to live for' that we don't need to go mucking around with chemicals imho. Trauma T is starting up again for me 'after Easter' tho I still haven't been given an exact date. But that will be a place where I can hopefully begin to work on what's behind 'nothing to live for'.

Now I remember those drops I got inpatient didn't cause nightmares so much as: they brought up a whole pile of emotions overnight that I don't normally feel when I'm thinking up solutions. I can't remember exactly but it's possible those emotions turned into nightmares. While it might be a good thing to go into those emotions bit by bit, that wasn't actually the plan at the time. And it certainly wasn't bit by bit.

Haven't taken my Quetiapin since about the 24th. That's just a few days of course. I hadn't actually intended to go off them but then it happened that way... One thing I notice is that I tend to go to bed a lot later when I don't take this medicine. However once I've noted that, I can work on changing that. Like say to myself it's Quetiapin time, so get ready for bed and go instead of taking Quetiapin ;D

Quote from: Blueberry on March 25, 2024, 12:47:27 PMPsych doc says that lack of deep quality sleep will be contributing to my feeling of 'nothing to live for, no goals'. I think more, it could be, but it might not be. It might be something completely different but it's easier to prescribe medication than arrange even more therapy for me to look at why. There's been enough stuff going on - realisations and deaths and bad news and even big changes last year undoubtedly still reverberating - that could cause a huge EF of 'nothing to live for' that we don't need to go mucking around with chemicals imho. Trauma T is starting up again for me 'after Easter' tho I still haven't been given an exact date. But that will be a place where I can hopefully begin to work on what's behind 'nothing to live for'.

My occupational T agrees with psych doc that insomnia and lack of sleep will cause problems with goals simply because lack of sleep equals lack of energy to accomplish those goals. Not sure where psych doc is, but imo OT is not looking deep enough. It's not that I don't have enough energy to work on my goals :no: It's a case of an EF saying "it's not worth it" or even "I don't want to exist"!! Then I can't access my energy, it all flows away somewhere. I probably don't even want to access my energy, I just want to curl up and at best self-soothe re-reading books I know almost off by heart or, even less active, hide under the blankets where it's warm and I can just doze for hours or days. And not only can I not access my energy, I can't access my goals either - they all seem pointless, but not pointless in ways I could list, it's more like they feel completely and utterly pointless. Big, big EF.

Also a big realisation :thumbup:  :thumbup:
Only brought about thru my experimenting the past few days with meds and thru OT's comment.

I've been off all meds for a week. I know that doesn't make anything any easier, but this cognitive knowledge doesn't seem to help. Today I finally took the most important medication again - thyroid. Maybe I'll manage anti-dep as well tomorrow.

Next week I'm finally getting back into trauma therapy, though that's not what got me moving again today.

Quote from: Blueberry on March 23, 2024, 04:43:52 PMI have started the course. Finally, in earnest, today. That is, I've dedicated a notebook for writing stuff, especially homework / being honest with myself + whatever else comes up and/or occurs to me. I might sometimes write about something on here or more likely on my private Journal
...

More importantly for me, doing this course is part of my attempt to improve my self-discipline of doing things for ME, of taking those healing steps regularly, making a habit out of them, getting back up again and setting off again when I've fallen on my nose or just stopped practising for whatever reason. 
...

Back on the bolded bit again today after idk 3-week break, tho it wasn't a planned break of course...

I enjoyed my day for the most part today. I did get a bit tired physically, which is not so enjoyable, but it's also nothing terrible.

In occup. therapy, my therapist was late - very unusual, in fact the first time ever. Me - late, that's not so unusual. I used the waiting time to write something in my paper Journal that I really wanted to write before I forgot and then I did a bunch of EFT (tapping), partly because of having to wait - that kind of ruffled the feathers of some part of me, tho in my head it wasn't a big deal. Feelings (including from the past) versus thoughts. I know occ.T well enough to know that this isn't going to become a trend and also to know that it had nothing whatsoever to do with me. Once I get going, my hands went straight into gloopy paint and onto paper. I yawn a lot, something gets released or at least there's some emotional movement, altho I don't know so far what cognitively. It doesn't matter, I don't always have to know.

I ran some errands - or attempted to - in the afternoon, which included having a nice walk along the local river. It's chilly, but no rain or sleet, in fact there was the occasional glimpse of sun. I was really tired in the late afternoon/early evening but I decided to go to choir practice anyway, tho I did waver in my decision-making, but then finally: choir practice! I haven't been for a couple of weeks, but we're singing on Sunday and I'll be singing too. I can manage that now - one practice and then sing with the rest.

So today I was involved with art and music  :cheer:  They're both good for me, but sometimes difficult too.

My new trauma T emailed that she's sick this week, so no appt this week after all, is that OK? ;D Fortunately I'm doing fairly well this week, so just think to myself "Not an awful lot I or my new T could do about it if it wasn't OK!"

I'm doing well with the meditations from the course. I do them after I get up and have taken my first meds. I'm surprised (!) but it's easier to get out of bed for this non-early bird when I have my meditation to look forward to.

On Monday I planned an exception for some concrete reasons and didn't do my meditation till late afternoon. By the time I did it, I was all over the place - thoughts jumping here and there. There are a few possible reasons for that, so I'm going to keep them in mind and see if there's some clarity about that sometime.

personally, blueberry, that's kind of a pet peeve for me, asking me if it's ok if something's not going to go the way i wanted or expected.  i'm glad you were in a good enough place for it to be ok, tho.

i like this meditation/music stuff for you.  it sounds like, at times, it's very helpful. interesting that when the time shift was off, so was the meditation.  hope you can figure it out.  love and hugs :hug:

I'm referring to this post of mine from a Conversion disorder thread:
https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15572.msg141952#msg141952

As I request at the bottom of that linked post, please put any conversation, comments, validation etc on that final post of mine over HERE on my Recovery Journal so as not to derail the very important topic of Conversion Disorder. Or if not really directed to me and my experience but rather your own experience, please consider using your own Journal or similar so as not to derail my Journal - you'll want responses/validation to your experience among your own writings. Thank you kindly.


So my reaction this morning to my post  :aaauuugh:  :aaauuugh:  :aaauuugh: on the imagery that turned up. That's all I want to write for the moment.

 :hug:

Thank you for your care, san. :hug:

I wanted to write a little more on the meaning of those images for me, but words fail me, thoughts fail me. There's nothing there. Or rather brain fog.

I know some FOO stuff was weaving in and out of my dreams last night and after I woke up this morning, I was planning things to say to B1, actually on a different topic. Not that I will say or even write anything of the sort to him, but it's a sign for me.

Actually I have quite a lot to do today, so starting would probably actually help me. Though getting up was a challenge. However, I have taken my first meds and done my meditation. Some days I genuinely look forward to getting up and doing my meditation. Not quite so enthusiastic today, but at least the idea that I would be doing my meditation before everything except first meds at least helped me get up. I got up before 9am too. Before I started doing daily meditation, I often didn't make it out of bed on Saturdays before noon, just so listless and exhausted.

I accomplished a lot yesterday after my difficult start. I had a good day too.
A bit sleepy and tired I suppose today, didn't get out of bed till noon. No actually probably a bit uneasy if not downright triggered about some conversations I managed to get into the past week or so. Not argumentative, but with people who don't do me good and don't notice my subtle signs that I don't want to further engage. Would be helpful to do some of my Imagination or Screen work on it.

Apart from that, there are so many things I want to write on the forum atm, mostly my own reactions to various things, progress, responses to various mbrs here on the forum, information gleaned from free webinars etc etc etc. But not able for the moment.

blueberry, i understand the teeter totter thing about accomplishing a lot one day, wiped out the next.  i think you're doing a lot, and a big yay! for your meditation practice.  even if you don't do it every day, each day that you manage it means something pos. for you, and that's a good thing, right?  keep going, one foot in front of the other.  we got this.

lots to unpack in your conversion order thread. interesting. i looked it up. i can relate to some of it. love and hugs :hug:

I'm so exhausted today. It's evening and I'm just going to go to bed.

Hi Blueberry,
I hope you sleep well.  :hug:
Hope  :)

Thank you Hope :hug:   I didn't unfortunately. Oh well.

sorry you didn't get the sleep you wanted, blueberry.  keep taking care of you as best you can, ok?  love and hugs :hug:

I had a long nap yesterday afternoon instead, but I didn't get up in the early evening as planned, I stayed in bed. Today too till a friend came round with some flowers for me and then we wandered around my garden a bit talking about flowers and plants and some other stuff too.

Now I'm on the forum and though I have seen posts I wanted to respond too, I noticed I need the energy for me. And I'm following that :thumbup:  :cheer:

Yesterday occupational therapy was more like art therapy. Helped me get some more clarity about something I did the other week and helped me be more forgiving to myself about it. My occ. therapist saw huge progress actually.

hooray for the progress, blueberry.  and another hooray for the great self care.  keeping to yourself instead of responding to others, i mean.  well done! :cheer:   love and hugs :hug:

Thanks san :hug:  It's good I wrote it down, otherwise I wouldn't be aware of it today. On a day like today it's good to read there was progress last week.