Messages

Much of this seems related to defining what one truly considers the "self". Is it a steady-state of being that's always consistent? And departing from that creates the shattering feeling, a kind of disbelief that it's even happening? Or are there other options to consider?

My own shattering experiences seem to have happened so often that I notice them, never could figure what was going on, so kind of just accept them, bad as they feel, and senseless as to the why/what and what, if anything, I could truly do, other than ride them out. That said, it felt like they were going to destroy me when they happened.

They became habitual, but fighting them seemed to make them worse. Rolling with the punch might be an apt phrase. If I don't do that rolling/accepting, it does feel like I'm about to shatter. Sometimes I wonder how I made it through the explosive feelings.

Back to the "self" though. I'm only speculating, but it's based on years of reading about this. Alright, so something that CG Jung and others have posited is that there's a Self (capital S) and self (small s). The Self is the steady observer that's always there; that makes us seem like a unit. The self is more like the daily part, the Self sticks around. And the self can also be multiple characters, something a fellow named Pierro Ferruci (book "What We May Be") was hep on. So each person is kind of their own universe, even. And no, it's not schizophrenia although it could go that route, I suppose.

It might sound contradictory, but maybe part of the scenario is we think that shouldn't or can't happen (and mind is part of small self thinking that). But maybe it's supposed to work that way, and the shattering is also a small self mechanism that prevents the larger shatter from happening (maybe there's multiples of small selves?), like a small fault line diverting another tracer that could trigger an earthquake.

Per usual, I've probably got several heads spinning  about now, so end of story--play with options. We're allowed to be creative (aha--another self!).

Thanks for sharing this, I Like Vanilla. It's prob more common than we think, and maybe we're better at this than those mechanical search engines anyway.

All of the social messaging in society is geared to being "normal". Normal is defined as running around like crazy, endlessly buying stuff (all-marketing-all-the-time), cheering your commercialized sports team, and participating in the marketplace at all costs. Values are no longer life traits, they're the latest low price on what you just have to have.

The only thinking desired is whatever it takes to guarantee one's role as a consumer. The word citizen isn't even heard much anymore, it's totally consumer oriented..."and here is the news; consumers today were said to...".

As tired said: "it's arrogant to think you might know yourself." Social consensus feeds on insecurity and it begins with the message to be "normal" and that means be social at all costs.

Because I live in the woods, people assume I must be anti-social...yeah, right; and next weekend I'm running a dinner theatre programme involving dozens of people. It's perfectly fine to be as social, or not, as you choose to be--in many of our situations, we need to factor in our cptsd to find our tolerable comfort niche (I'll be drained from social anxiety after the event but the artistic need to do it overrides at this point).

Unless you know yourself, who determines your needs--you or the media-saturated culture with its seal of approval? 

Hi, newbie  

Breaks are great. What happens sometimes is we're in a hurry to get there, sense we're making progress, and want the answers that seem so close; and then panic when they elude our grasp again.

Plus there's the comfort of being able to connect with others who get it. It's also really cool to lend a helping word or 2 or 50 when needed and one feels they can. The confidence game is huge for me--can I really do this...I always fear being misunderstood (I love the edit button!), or that it doesn't matter what I think, period. I've sensed that you struggle with this, too.

So it's good to see you've had a chance to mellow a bit, see where your recovery needs are, and show up here again. Your spirited presence was important, and missed when you weren't around recently. It seems key, now, to pick out a surer pace, one that feels right for you. Based on what you've shown and shared here before, you'll figure where and when to fit in. It's never easy, is it? But all we can do is carry on.

Welcome back! 

One more thought...I'm afraid I made acceptance sound like a one-way street, accepting only what's past, and/or that it only influences the present via flashbacks, etc. The flipside is that by choosing acceptance one is also recognizing their own role in determining the future, for example choosing to seek help, find other options, or refine one's approach to further healing. So I can accept that I'll probably feel hopeless, but when I do I can also accept that maybe I'll discover a new hope, something to look forward to.

Thanks for posting this topic--it's always fun to consider what options we have when life gets heavy. 

Spiritual bypass refers to the psychological detours many people take, avoiding what they really need in the name of so-called spirituality.

It isn't meant to be anti-religious at all, though it may appear that way to some. It merely seeks to describe the perils and pitfalls of relying on a strictly religious/spiritual approach when deeper healing is called for. This is especially relevant for people dealing with the sort of deep psychological wounds stemming from conditions such as cptsd. 

Three excellent discussions regarding spiritual bypass can be found via the following links:

http://lonerwolf.com/what-is-spiritual-bypassing/

http://robertmasters.com/writings/spiritual-bypassing/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-sobriety/201110/beware-spiritual-bypass

Hypervigilante,

Once I left my foo with no regrets, I resigned myself to the possibility of having no one I could ever get close to in my life...it was just too much for me, so many people had let me down, and worse.

Later I found a life that fit me better, but never developed any real friends. Some tried, but I couldn't take it in, my self-worth never felt comfortable. Couldn't trust others, or even myself.

Finally, 4 people who'd worked with me in an artistic venture didn't give up on wanting me as their friend. They stuck with me, and eventually I realized I needed them as much as they wanted me a part of their lives.

I never thought I could have friends like them in the first place; didn't think I deserved it, but they became a key element of that long "self-discovery road" you spoke of. And then, all 4 died within months of each other. I was bereft at this, left friendless once more, and it rattled every ounce of self-worth they'd worked so hard to help me find.

So I share the pain of that loss, when the path that was at least tolerable becomes much less so, and one wonders if it's ever going to be worth it.

Thank you for sharing, hard as it was.

Take good care, hypervigilante...    

BigGreenSee123 wrote:

"To accept hopeless or fear requires that you kind of allow yourself to sink into these things."

It's not that one consciously allows it, it happens anyway; allowance isn't the same as acceptance. Trying to stop it is like saying don't think about something for the next 30 seconds (elephant, colour, mountain, etc.). The thoughts rush in to fill the gap--whether they be good, bad, indifferent.

For me, the acceptance/okay part comes when I realize that I will probably have the "falling apart" feelings regardless. I always have. I don't like it. But it's happened and I'm learning it comes, and goes, like waves in the ocean. Separate waves, one ocean.

I'm very attuned to the other people conundrum you touched on as well. Haven't learned enough self-compassion to know how to speak clearly for myself. The old give-an-inch-take-a-mile rule kicks in. Trouble is, I'm so scared of disapproval I let them take the mile to save the peace. Maybe I accept everything but me. Sigh.    

I didn't see the movie (I don't see many), but my wild guess is that you "knew" the emotional level of the character, in a way that someone else might not have. You're probably better able to appreciate the depths of those emotions, the "crying and screaming and not knowing where to turn".

It's the same as many realize on this forum--they're not alone in feelings that are hard to describe to someone who hasn't been on this road. In that sense I don't see your good, built-up feelings as "insane" at all.

Three years ago I was in a heavy place. Nothing new there, but an old inner message kept telling me, "if only" I'd get it right this time, find the fix, I'd be over the hump. Back to where I should be. Albeit I'd never reached where I should be in the first place, if I even knew what that was. Still I forged ahead; I'd already done so much work on myself, I had to be close. Right? Please?

So I signed up for another round of therapy. I'd been in lots before--some good, some not, some neutral, and some dreadful experiences. But this time I was determined it would be different, no matter what.

Well, the therapy itself was of the neutral sort, and when the T moved what followed was the chit chatty sort of fill-in-the-blanks therapy. Meanwhile I'd run across some books on self-acceptance and they turned out to be the better therapy, more what I needed to learn. So I've chosen acceptance as the starting point for my healing journey.

Acceptance doesn't mean resignation to fate, because part of what one accepts is the ability to choose options. But it does reflect the reality of "that was then, this is now" thinking. I found acceptance wasn't a tacit form of "just get over it". That can't be done; but neither can one change things that happened, or even the thoughts that rush through about them. How can one not accept what already happened? And the thoughts rush in all the time, unexpectedly, despite one's best efforts to ignore or undo them.

The pain, the failure, the sadness is all there whether we choose it or not. The "positive" thinkers by insisting on constant upbeat thoughts can't do it any better. They set themselves up for disappointment and failure when, inevitably, they have a "bad" thought, an angry one, etc., and realize they're not perfect. It's stress of the highest magnitude; brought on by the need to be always positive.

But when you accept that it's okay not to be okay, it releases the tension of having to always get it right. It doesn't undo any of the "stuff" from before, but in accepting even those unpleasant thoughts it's easier to find a path from which we can move forward.

Acceptance doesn't need a goal, requires no program, and makes no grand promises. It's a healing journey, not a destination, like recovery implies. Within acceptance, one retains that spark we all started with—the curiosity to discover new ways of being. 

Along the trail of acceptance, we can feel okay, and learn that it's okay to accept our healing, its good and bad parts, the tears and laughter, joy and pain. By doing so we can unlearn the "happiness is everything" mantra that sounds wonderful, but doesn't reflect our true nature.

 

Wow, what a great idea--I live 1 mile from one of the greatest wild rivers left. My canoe waits and the weather is ideal. 

Missbliss quoted Judith Herman's observation:

"Many abused children cling to the hope that growing up will bring escape and freedom.

    But the personality formed in the environment of coercive control is not well adapted to adult life. The survivor is left with fundamental problems in basic trust, autonomy, and initiative."

Indeed, that rings true for my experience in what I call "the graveyard of lost illusions". I still feel like I'm 12 and looking forward to the teen years...what the hey, I missed 'em the first time around. Another poster here once remarked that if "arrested development" is a symptom of cptsd, bring on the second childhood.

Except I feel like I'm still 12, stuck. Maybe there's a novel in there, but it's truly nonfiction with all the horror film memories to go along. Oddly, I use that image--my life as movie--often as a means to cope. I mean, if my life is a movie, the screen goes blank, the projector is shut off; I exit the theatre, and realize that the movie is over. Unfortunately, I still remember every scene.

Pure fantasy, again; it happens when one loses the "real". Missing something, but I already knew that. 

Partly due to my remote residence, I've given up formal "live" T. Although there is a group counseling setup just 15 miles away, where I had 3 T's, they seemed pretty "cookie-cutter" in their approach. None of 'em had a clue about cptsd; I ended up teaching them about it.

One did EMDR (seemed hung-up on it), but similar to your experience, it was done-and-out. For her, it seemed like a game; for me, it was just confusing, and I was also discouraged from talking about it after.

I've cycled through periods with T's, long stretches without 'em. Funny thing I feel like I make more progress alone, reading lots, etc. Perhaps I could better structure my approach. Come to think of it, though, many T's I had weren't very structured at all, just darting around. I'm sure there's good ones; Long ago I had one pretty good T (out of 9) but back soloing now and feeling okay about it. No driving and no bills for glorified "chats" either.

DU wrote:

"NO WONDER I RUMINATE ALL* THE TIME! It's for my bloody survival!"

Oh yeah. A favourite author had this to say about the ruminating dance: "Regret is the longing to change the past. Fear is the desire to control the future. Peace is the surrender to Now." Your m and s seem to have high regard for the "regret" tag as they cling to the history they want.

I've a slight side-story about history, okay? In my work I dealt with history a lot (that acting stuff I've mentioned). I invented a character who often used lines referring to historians as "hysterians--they study the past and go hysterical". Maybe you can re-label the fear-mongers as "ye olde hysterians". Hope you're okay with my using slang words here, despite your second-language filter.

I have 3 words from the FOO that have haunted my ruminations:

1...the m said "shame, shame, double-shame" to me, usually after molesting me; interesting twist, that one. Freudian slip, I think they call it.

2...the f was fond of reminding me "it's not what you say, it's how you say it." Whoa! No wonder I never felt understood, but I bet his "blame the victim" stance honed my acting skills for the "how you say it" parts.

3. Religious schools actually made it kinda easy--they just told me I was a sinner all the time.

You conclude by calling your ruminations time-wasters. Nah, they're only thoughts from the mind's vaults--what shows up, shows up. But now you get to clean 'em out and design your own mind-vault.

Just remember to install dustbins in your memory vault; for discarding what's no longer needed in building your new self. That's where you can put m and s, those hysterians so hysterical about the past.

So while all they wanted for you was: 

you're now free to: 


                  



 

This kind of floors me. You wrote:

"the lady made me do the pulmonary test like 6 times before I could pass"

...if you failed that many times but passed just once, it sure seems like that should indicate the presence of asthma or some pulmonary stress, not its absence. Whatever her thinking was, it has a funny feel--like maybe she thought your intent on doing the test was like an academic one, and you'd be happy to pass, so let's keep on going? Maybe she didn't understand that you weren't trying to pass or fail, but was curious in a search for possibilities? And after 6 tries, oh good you passed? And you had used albuterol that day, which should skewer the test favourably, but it took that many repeats to do so?

I'm very leery about giving med advice of any sort; med stuff freaks me out anyway. But as an asthmatic, and having been around these tests, I don't get that one. At all. If you'd had 3 passes, 3 fails it would obviously indicate a neutral result...but the 5-1 score? Too weird to come up with a "pass" on that.

But I only write this to point out what seems incongruous in the testing outcome. I do so hoping it doesn't trigger any more anxiety than you already have about this.

I hope all goes well with the T...you deserve a break on this, and a truly caring, understanding human seems what's most needed. You're showing remarkable poise; it's bad enough just to be dealing with cptsd, let alone all this added stress. Anyway you can, find ways to relax, confident you are really doing the best.

Take good care.     

Do you have a way to contact your T outside of the regular appointment times? This seems like a time when you should insist on it, if you don't have it. You mentioned the T does EMDR, but surely there's more help there, associates or other T's? Or it can be found through the T's contacts? You indicated you regarded her highly, and you need that sort of personal help as much if not more than the docs. 

As to the psychiatrist, if a second opinion is an option, that seems worth checking into when you can. Regarding the asthma, if that test you had was the "breathing tube" one, they can be wildly off sometimes, depending on lots of factors like time of day, pre-test diet, etc. At the very least, there's chronic pulmonary stress going on and it can be helped.

You've been resilient with this before, and can be now. There are incredible highs/lows with all that's happened. It's all lonely and no one cares--it's my involuntary nightly mantra. It's all very maddening, and oh how I wish I had more than words.

You've friends...right here.  We care...right here, right now.
We treasure your friendship, your generosity, your noble spirit even in times like now. We all wish we could help more, but we do the best we can. Your incredible spirit will find a way through.