Out of the Storm

Not a very creative title... it'll do though.

I left home when I was 17.  It had (finally) got to a point where enough was enough.  I decided either I was going to leave, or I was going to die.  Luckily I chose the first option.  I had a relative nearby that I was able to walk to.  Probably took me a solid two hours trekking through fields and back yards - I knew if my stepfather found me, I'd have been physically dragged back home, so I avoided any roads.

My aunt put me through some counselling then, mostly to make sure I still had an interest in continuing to live.  My last session was with my mom in the room.  I remember the counsellor asking, "how many times has he abused him?"  She turned to the counsellor with a straight face and said "once or twice?"

I broke down bawling immediately, mid-session.  It was blatant, face-saving lie.  I think that was when I realized how abandoned I had been by my mother, which felt even worse than the abuse.  I left that meeting with a note in hand saying I was legally emancipated, and a will to never spend another second of mental energy on my parents again.

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So, 22 years later, my wife asks me through tears why whenever she needs support from me I 'turn off'.  I'm barely able to respond.  We have had conversations about how I felt like I was living a joyless life, how I spend every day going through the motions waiting for everyone to leave me alone so I can be with myself.  She suggests that I see a therapist (she has been seeing her own for anxiety and anger reasons).  I find one who's summary seems to make sense and we start the process.

The therapist quickly was able to identify that I have had trauma in my childhood, and it could explain a lot of what was going on.  This upsets me.  I had made a promise to myself to leave all of that behind!  I'm successful in my career, I got married, I have wonderful children, I have a nice house!  I am living life in spite of what happened to me!

We dive into it.  Internal Family Systems, being with my emotions, identifying that I do, in fact, have needs (even if I have huge problems identifying them).  I start reading... Healing the Child Within... Healing the Shame that Binds You... and eventually C-PTSD by Pete Walker.  Each book makes more and more sense, makes me feel more seen and makes me understand where all of this may be coming from.

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My most recent assignment from my therapist was to find a photo of myself as a young child, and to start journaling.  First point was to write a letter to my parents (that I won't send).  Get some of that anger out there I imagine, maybe help identify my developmental trauma so we can work on it.  I had told her that I wanted to start "grieving my childhood losses" as Mr. Walker put it, but I was having a lot of trouble identifying what I had lost, never mind grieving it.  She said, "you can't grieve a loss you don't miss", which makes a lot of sense.

I've become so good at taking care of myself that I don't really feel like I am missing anything, but at the same time I read and hear about 'healing from relationships' and 'communicating your needs', and all these other foreign concepts.  I don't realize that I'm missing these things, because they've literally never been presented as things I could have.  My life, from a young age, was making sure everyone and everything else was good, because if it wasn't I would get in trouble (yelled at, insulted, hit, mocked, demeaned, etc.)  I only truly was able to be myself once everyone was sleeping.  I often stayed up past midnight alone in my room, because that was 'safe me time'.

The other thing I realized shortly after this last session was that I hate my inner child.  The thought of caring about younger me is just an offensive concept in my mind.  I know, from an intellectual point of view, that it's likely just my inner critic working on over drive or various 'protectors' (IFS) trying to keep all that part of my life hidden and away.  But despite all that just the thought of caring about that kid, the one who couldn't say two words to stick up for himself, the one who took every hit without crying, the one who barely had any friends, the one who worked in servitude out of fear, I just can't bring myself to do it. 

(Ever since I came to this conclusion I've had 'heart concerns'?  A tightness in the chest making breathing more noticeable and giving a heavy heart beat.  One day I was considering going to the hospital about it, and then I realized I could basically make it start by thinking about my inner child.  Definitely psychosomatic.  Even happening now.)

Anyways, I've written the letters to my mother and stepfather.  To my surprise the one to my mother was actually much more aggressive.  I'd consider posting them on here but they've got a _lot_ of swearwords in them.  I may consider writing a letter to my younger self as well.  Might help to get that all down on paper.

I appreciate you sharing your experiences and reflections.  I resonate with the experience of hating the inner child and finding aggression toward parental figures.  I hope that each step you are taking is leading toward more ease.

I'm sorry that you were abused, many times, and that your mom out right lied about it and massively minimized it. I also relate completely to the part of your post that expresses such shock that this is where you find yourself... that you left that behind and made a perfect new life. That happened to me, too. It's such a weird incongruence. But we didn't leave it behind. We thought we did but we just buried it and let it fester ignored and unhealed. Here it is now and we can't ignore it anymore. It DOES get better. Therapy can be painful and difficult. Sometimes it can look and feel like going backwards but I've found even when it looks objectively like I am worse I am much much better than ever before. Good luck on your journey I look forward to reading more. I'm glad you are here.  :grouphug:

Crackedice,

I'm glad you shared your story here. I can say that the details and names are all different, but quite a bit of your story sounds familiar. I too left my family for the same reason: It was walk away or die. I too felt seriously ignored and unprotected. My wife has had to deal with my own dissociative "shutting down" during times when I needed to be present. She has had to come to terms with my sense that I'm only safe when everyone's asleep or I am home alone with all the doors and windows closed. A need to isolate is a common theme among a lot of us here on the forum. Like you, I have created an amazing little family of people who love me to the ends of the earth, and yet, I still find myself only at ease when I'm isolated.

I hope that you find this forum to be as comforting a place as I have. Being able to talk WITH people who feel so many of the same things I feel, and without having to explain myself or pretend I'm happier than I really am, has made this a place of refuge for me. I hope it helps for you too. 

And if you really do want to share the letters to your parents with us, I can't speak for everyone, but as for me, speaking only for myself, I'm okay with reading them. The way this forum was designed, "swear" words are automatically turned into asterisks to protect those who don't like reading them. Usually, through context, we all know which word has been censored out.

Also, you can start the post with a "Trigger Warning" and then use white ink to write it, which gives all the members the option to read or not read it. I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds by saying I'm up for reading them, but I can say that for me, writing something no one else is going to read feels impotent and pointless. Like, once again, I'm not being heard. When I write something that I know someone is going to read, the writing becomes more powerful and effective.  For me, healing happens when others read what I've written. That's the reason I'm offering to read your letters to your parents. I am open to feeling, and sharing in, your anger and your release of what you need to say. Chances are I'll resonate with it around my own parents and my own nasty, nasty, nasty elder siblings also.

These days I'm all about releasing pent up past emotion and trauma. How ever we need to release it, as long as we aren't hurting anyone in the process, is what we need to do to let our bodies release what our brains have been holding onto for far too long. Hysterical laughing, hysterical crying, writing letters that speak the deepest truth, blaring out swear words...these are all methods of releasing pent up energy.

It might actually be cathartic for me to read your letters. I feel less alone with my own anger when I share similar anger with others who deserve to feel it as much as I do.

If others on the forum aren't okay with you posting the letters, I'm okay with you posting them on my personal messages folder. I hate to think you're sitting there not feeling heard because no one's read your letters to your parents.

--

A quick note about swearing. It can actually be good for us to do it when it's appropriate

I have been watching the Netflix Documentaries on why we swear, and I'm learning why it can be really, actually, good for us to do it. Research has proven that if allowed to swear, the swearer has the ability to withstand pain up to 50% longer than those who are not allowed to swear. When we swear, we can actually feel the release of anxiety and endorphins in our bodies. Words we've been conditioned by others to believe are "bad" are stored in a more aggressive part of the brain. Like the same part of the brain that we use when we feel a need to punch a pillow or release aggression, or better endure, or release pain.

 :yeahthat:

Hi Cracked Ice,
I am afraid I am not really in a position to write a long reply to your post (I seem to be stuck in a particularly strong emotional flashback) but I just want to welcome you to this forum. I'm sorry about all the things that happened to you and I wished you didn't feel the need to come here, but at the same time I am glad to have you (if you know what I mean). I am always grateful for meeting other people with similar experiences and hearing about their perspectives.
So, I would like to second what Papa Coco has said. I would be very open to read your letters or other triggering content because I believe that it is important to talk about experiences like these and that it can be very healing to tell your story and finally feel heard and understood.
I still often feel a sense of shame and guilt for writing about such dark memories because I fear that it will be too much for others to bear, but as PC said: writing about these things will help us release some of the pain and fear we have been feeling ...

QuoteHow ever we need to release it, as long as we aren't hurting anyone in the process, is what we need to do to let our bodies release what our brains have been holding onto for far too long.

Really appreciate the replies everyone, thanks.  I've always had a lingering doubt in the back of my mind that my trauma wasn't 'enough' or I was being 'too sensitive' about things, but reading all your stories (and support for each other) has really opened things up for me.  I have a hard time discussing these things with others outside of my therapist, I rarely even bring it up with my wife, even though part of me wants her to just 'get it' so I can stop pretending around her when things are actually going poorly.

I am planning on sharing the letters with my therapist, but I'm not opposed to posting them up here as well.  It'll feel good to get some validation, and if it helps others realize they're not alone in their thoughts and feelings (as you all have for me already) it'll definitely be for the greater good.

Bit of a bad day today.  Woke up at 4:30 am from a terrible anxious dream that I've had before, but definitely not for a few years.  Possibly over two decades.  I had finished writing the letter to my 'inner self' the night before which wasn't exactly a nice letter, so perhaps that triggered some sort of regressed dream memory?

In the dream I am terribly anxious, watching the news as they uncover the shallow grave of a near by neighbour who was clearly murdered, the crime scene at an abandoned lot down the street from my childhood home.  I'm anxious because I'm the one who did it.  I just know, in my heart of hearts, that I had done a terrible thing and the police were seconds away from knocking down the door, about to arrest me and send me away for life.

I mention this because I generally don't remember my dreams at all, but not only did I remember this one (likely because it woke me up), but I explicitly remember having the very same dream before in my teen years.  I was so unsure that it had been a dream that I felt I needed to find my neighbour on facebook to make sure she wasn't actually dead. 

Maybe this is my inner child striking back?  Or just reaching out?

Anyways, after not being able to go back to sleep, my wife also ended up having a crappy day today as well, and her usual style is to take it out on me.  One of the first books I started reading on my therapy journey (as suggested by my therapist) is Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt.  Their thesis is that we subconciously choose our partners as a way for trying to finish off and obtain the love that our parents weren't able to give, and in that we marry people with the traits (both good and bad) as our parents.  That book really resonated with me, as I ended up marrying someone with anger issues.

I find myself stuck in this weird paradoxical state where my wife often gives me the love and support I was missing as a child, but also has a tendency to 'vent her frustration' in my general direction.  It's not nearly as bad as my abusive/neglectful parents of course, but given my background (and now everything I understand with cptsd) it's effectively in the same realm, enough that I get triggered and start shame spiraling often.  She gets more frustrated because I'm unable to give her the support she's actually looking for through her frustration, and repeat.

After over a decade of this, we've created this environment that matches my childhood home - I fawn around the house, making sure there's no reason she should be upset, including taking care of the children, cooking almost all our meals, laundry when I remember, bathroom cleaning, vacuuming, etc.  And, just like in my past, regardless of my efforts something sets her off (work, missing a chore, busy life stress, etc.) and I end up freezing and triggered and spiraling, none of which I feel I can share with her because, well, she's the one who triggered me. 

Hearing "you're not doing enough" when I've spent pretty much 90% of my conscious day making sure there wasn't a reason for her to be upset with me really hits me hard, and I think today I realized why.  My mind translates it to "You're not fawning enough", which then goes to "despite your efforts you're still not safe", and that collides with my mental exhaustion of effectively working all day, and off goes the shame spiral trigger.  Any time I try to present context as to why I'm reacting the way I am, I always feel like it's an excuse or diversion from the issue at hand, and feel really really ashamed of myself.

Things have certainly got better since I've started therapy, and we've started couples therapy together now as well, but every other month or so we have a big fight that takes me days to recover from mentally.  As my therapist suggests, I need to tell myself "I'm not in danger.  She's not my parent.  I'm an adult.  I'm safe now."

Even after recovering through all that, I'm still left in a defensive, fawning state.  The thing that makes me the most sad about it is how I don't feel safe enough to share some of my therapy with her... I'm really afraid she won't understand, or worse yet she won't care.  She's inadvertently said some very hurtful things about it in the past.  Even today when I was attempting to explain why I wasn't in a place to give her comfort, she said "I needed your support, not your excuses".

She definitely has her own kinks to work out (and she has been sporadically going to therapy), anxiety that triggers her fight response if it gets too bad.  She'll get so worked up about something that by the time she reaches out for support it's generally preceded by aggression and accusation, leaving me in a state where I can't really give her what she needs.  The problem is she doesn't think her fight response is the problem - she often tells me "that's just how I grew up with my brothers and my family", "I feel like I can't be frustrated in my own house", and "isn't the issue how you're handling my frustration?"  All nails in the "open communication" coffin, things that make me feel unsafe sharing any of my thoughts and feelings with her.

I wish I could be the husband that can look past all that aggression and just instinctively know that she doesn't mean what she's saying, that all she's really looking for is a hug and reassurance, but by the time we get past the aggression my inner critic has so thoroughly convinced me that everything is my fault that I have nothing to offer.

Once we're both through our respective funky moods things are generally better, but this is one stage of our relationship that I'm finding really hard.  It's that painful place past the ignorance of my cptsd symptoms, but before anything has changed.  It's like, I know why I'm reacting this way, but I can't stop myself from doing it.

Anyways.  Got my three therapy letters written in advance of my next appointment on Tuesday.  I'll put some time into sharing them on here at some point in the future.

I appreciate everyone's time reading my wall of text :) Hope everyone has a good week!

Oh man, I've had those dreams that are terrifying and awful and you can't quite tell if they are real even though logically you're pretty sure they are not real. That can leave a pretty crappy feeling for several days especially when it feels like you've done the worst thing in the world. I've had nightmares like that too. So bad I can't even write or speak of them even though they were dreams. They truly do affect you so be gentle with yourself.

It is really tough too when you can't quite share with your spouse and their actions are triggering you. I've been there too including with my spouse inadvertently saying things that make it much worse. I also relate so much to the shame and exhausting yourself trying to do everything humanly possible to be enough and do enough. It's exhausting and in the end counterproductive.

I'm holding hope for you though because I've been there and I am now out of those woods. I don't exhaust myself anymore trying to do everything perfect, and as much as I thought I was not doing enough or being good enough for my husband and as much as his words and behaviors seemed to indicate the truth in that....it actually wasn't true.

It took I'd say three years to really have those kinks worked out on that front. You don't need to be perfect. That is true regardless of your wife's reactions. You get to just be you. Be decent but perfection is not fair and it isn't sustainable.

I'm proud of you for writing those letters. I can't imagine how hard that was and how much it would take out of you. If and when you want to share them there's a section on the forum for letters and I'd love to read them. My therapist is weak on some of these areas and I'd like to see what the assignment was so maybe I can do something similar.

Crackedice,

One thing about this forum is that we are all unique individuals, but we are on the same train. So much of what you're saying could copy/paste into my own diary.  As usual, I resonate with so many thoughts, that I have a lot to say. So I'm going to divide my comments to address each of your comments individually:


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Dreams:

My DBT Therapist always helps me through my dreams by telling me that the dreams are not at all about the details, but about how they make me feel. I've had those dreams before where I realize I'm guilty of some horrible, irreversible crime and my life is over now. Funny coincidence, that's how I was raised. My family had some very sick sociopaths in it. All of my three elder siblings were tweens and teens when I was born. They were horrible people. The middle one, 11 years older than me, was a clinically ill with Borderline Personality Disorder. I always call her a sociopath, but my T believes she's likely BPD. The differences are nearly moot. The behaviors are the same. My big Catholic family had given birth to a kind-hearted boy, me, who was the perfect dumping ground for all their frustration. I became a Fawn because I was born with a good heart, and their constant accusations that I was the cause of all their mistakes were easy to lob onto me. I took it. I was such a good-hearted boy that I believed everything those liars ever said to me. or about me. I have lived my entire life, 62 years now, believing anyone who accuses me of anything.

I joke about it by saying, "I know I was only three at the time, but I might have been the person on the grassy knoll when JFK was killed." Having lived a long a life of dissociative time losses, makes me believe people when they accuse me of their crimes. Even in my own brain I don't have an alibi that proves to myself I was innocent. That's what narcissists, sociopaths and Borderline Personality Disordered parents, priests, and elder siblings do to their little soft-hearted sons...they blame us for everything and make us believe we just might be guilty of every crime that's ever been committed by anyone, anywhere.

That's what Gaslighting's entire purpose is...to condition us to be so unsure of our own thoughts and memories, that we take the blame for every sin THEY commit. Because of the gaslighting, we no longer trust our own minds.

If I were to have the dream you reported here, my therapist would tell me the dreams are not about the crime scene, they're about the fact that, for some reason, I feel as just as guilty about something I don't remember having done, as I would if I'd just committed the crime in my dream. The details are moot, the emotions are what my dreams are mimicking. He'd ask me what was happening in my daily life that was making me feel guilty for someone else's crime.  We'd go from there.

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Being a fawn makes being a husband into a unique challenge:

As a fawn, I know that I can never, ever be enough. For decades, I've done all the housework. All the cooking. All the grocery shopping. All the yard maintenance. All the repairs. All the socializing. All the bill paying. And I still feel like I don't do enough for my wife and kids. My wife works 20-30  hour weeks, but spends her money on herself. I worked 60 hour weeks and still did ALL the chores at home. I saved for our retirement. She's never put a penny in the bank. She takes care of herself while I also take care of her, AND I take care of myself.

I don't blame her for this, I blame myself. I taught her how to treat me. I do EVERYTHING because I don't want to be accused of not doing enough. I over-fawn so I don't feel quite as much guilt for someone doing something for me.

My motto is "I'd rather be a nail than a hammer." It's safer for me to feel like a victim than a perpetrator.

My wife and I are married now 40 years next April. One lucky thing we were able to accomplish was a beach cottage. I was forcibly retired from my job of 42 years in 2020 due to some of my company's very unfortunate corporate leadership failures that added to the COVID stressors. That hurt. My wife still works. We have a respectful, peaceful marriage. We're that extremely rare couple who's been married 40 years and we don't bicker and fight all day long like almost all other long-term couples do. Our eyes still light up when the other walks into the room. Our love is real. We cherish each other. People ask what is the secret to our long, happy marriage, and I say, "Two houses."

We give each other space.

Now that I no longer work, I'm free to live wherever I want. So I live alone in the beach cottage for more than half the year. She's okay with that. In fact, when I'm not here to fawn for her, she buys her own groceries and even drives herself to work in the snow. Turns out, she doesn't need me to fawn as much as I need to fawn over her. She visits me when she gets 3 or more days off from her job. I come up to the city every so many weeks (or months) to mow the lawns, fix what's broken, visit my wife, visit my kids and grandkids. I'm just now learning to stop talking about this with shame. Two homes is keeping us in love and married at this point. I still love her, but I NEED time and space where I'm not fawning over someone.

I am a fawn with a SERIOUS aversion to confrontation. I can't handle any confrontation with my own wife. When she shows aggression toward me, I leave. I've stopped punishing myself for it. She's not a villain. She's a very kindhearted, honest person, but we get on each other's nerves, and I'm a fawn who was treated like a total moron by my own mother and elder sisters. When my wife's moods turn her against me, they make me feel unsafe in my own home, so I pack up the jeep and move to the other house where no one is treating me like I'm "the problem here."  F*** it. If I'm the problem, then I shouldn't be here annoying you.

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The right to be frustrated (AND safe) in our own home:

I have many friends who have been married long time and in almost every marriage, all they do is bicker and snap at each other. I can't do that.  Your wife's comment that she feels she has the right to be frustrated in her own house reminds me that I have a rule too: I have a right to feel safe and NOT attacked in MY own home. I'm a good listener. A trained listener actually. And my wife enjoys being able to tell me about her frustrations, and even to be in a bad mood when she needs to be. I listen to her go on and on about her bad days at work nearly every night. I lovingly welcome her back into our life while she debriefs (dumps) her bad days at work onto my listening ears. And that's okay. I love her and I'm here for her. I calm her down. I hug her. I make her something to eat. She can dump her problems on the floor in front of me every day and I'm okay with that.

But she does NOT have the right to take it out on me. Not in my own home!  My wife has the right to be frustrated too, but she doesn't have the right to treat me like I'm the problem. Not here in my own home. I married her because I wanted to be her friend, NOT HER PUNCHING BAG! Aggression is for the streets and the ball fields and the boxing rings. NOT in my own home. If want to be attacked, I'll walk down a dark alley. But inside the walls of my own home I have the right to feel peace and safety. Always.

I grew up in a dangerous house. Yes, we all have the right to be frustrated in our own homes. No, you do not have the right to take those frustrations out on me. Talk to me about your frustrations. I'll help you through them, or I'll love you while you're miserable. I'll serve you breakfast in bed, or I'll let you throw things around. But don't you DARE turn your anger onto me if I'm not the person who deserves to be knocked around for what happened to you at work today.

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Therapy is sacred and personal, even from my wife:

In the beginning years of my therapy, my wife also wanted to know what was being said in the privacy of my sessions. Maybe she felt left out. Maybe she felt vulnerable that I was disclosing secrets to someone other than her. Maybe she felt like my time with a therapist was like I was cheating on her by not telling her this stuff. BUT like with you, any time I try to open up with her, she responds badly.

Her advice to my anxiety is to "just stop feeling anxiety." If I tell her that I feel uneasy, she IMMEDIATELY defends herself, which makes me shrink back to feeling like I'm right back with my aggressive mother and siblings, and I'm that little good-hearted boy who is being accused of making my family miserable again.

So I refused to tell her.

Her untrained reactions to my vulnerable disclosures felt like knives in my heart. So I didn't tell her. I couldn't tell her even if I'd wanted to. The things that I was in therapy for were so confusing to me, I couldn't even verbalize them to anyone, let alone someone with that much power over my vulnerabilities. The earlier years of my therapy were so triggering, I often blacked out when the session began, and came to when my therapist was snapping his fingers and telling me our time was up. He'd have to walk me to my car and instruct me to sit in the car for 5 minutes, or until I felt competent enough to drive away because I was so dissociated. When a man tells his wife that he is that vulnerable, it pisses off the wife.

So I chose to repeatedly tell her it was private and that's all there was to it.  Non-negotiable.

As the years have progressed, she's come to see that if I'm not in therapy, I slip into my suicidal spiral again. So she doesn't know what my T and I talk about, but she's decided I'm a better person when I'm with him, so she accepts it now. AND as she lives and ages, she sees that most of her friends, her own two sons, are all in desperate need of therapy. She's finally seeing that most of the world is in a death spiral right now, so my need to "cheat on her" with a therapist isn't so abnormal.

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I've gone on way too long, as is my habit. I just hear so many things that felt like I've dealt with nearly the same things, and I wanted to share enough so you'd know that my road has merged with yours a few times. I've driven through some of the same potholes as you.  My solutions are to be open with people about it all, so I don't feel like I'm the only person who feels this way, and neither are you.

I wish I had solutions for you. But I'm not a trained psychologist. I can only share my stories as a witness to what I've seen, felt and heard. I share things that I feel might resonate with others. I'm one beggar sharing with other beggars where I found food. What's working for me may only work for me, and really...how well are my solutions working for me anyway? I have to disconnect from my own wife for weeks on end in order to save my marriage. And my wife is one of the kindest, most honest people I've ever met. I've never loved anyone the way I love her. So if I have to live in two homes to keep a safe space between myself and this beautiful person, how sane am I really?

Thanks Armee and Papa Coco, I really appreciate you reaching out and empathizing.  It's nice to know that I'm not alone in these feelings and that there's 'light at the end of the tunnel' so to speak.  I'm grateful for you sharing your experiences being a few more years into this process, it gives me a lot of hope that I'm moving in the right direction.

Hi Crackedice
I don't have a lot to add to what Armee and Papa said ....
I have a super supportive wife... but it wasn't always this way.. and even still it's very difficult at times.

So funny, she just called right now as I'm at work, and I'm instantly triggered. Not her fault, and I've only recently acknowledged this to her... but this happens when she calls me at work.
I feel instantly like a failure... like her "how's your morning going?" is a criticism of not having done enough. Or I'm not there for her.. or whatever it is.. but it's brutal.

But generally (forgive that spontaneous side step above)... it's better than it ever was. I am a huge fawn as well like Papa said.
As for sharing with her... it got to be where I decided I didn't have a choice. She either accepted me or she wouldn't. I couldn't go any more without sharing.
Now this weekend she kept asking me "are you sure you're ok?" and I kept saying yes, though I wasn't/am not.
So.. even getting better at communicating, doesn't make it good all of the time.
I also forget when I'm not present about her sarcastic sense of humour (that I generally love)
So when she says "I'm always right" , as an example, I get pretty defensive internally....
All this jumbled mess of words.. and all I mean to say is that I think I understand.. and I know it's not easy, and you have my support.
I feel incredibly grateful for my w... i consider her my angel that I desperately need... but trauma makes me feel largely unworthy of her.
Sending support and care and gratitude for your sharing.

Had another therapy session today.  Talked about the three letters I wrote (one to my mother, one to my stepfather, and one to my inner child).  The inner child one stood out for both of us, as it seemed to really catalog and highlight where I was with acceptance / grieving / processing.  In short, I'm not very accepting of my inner child, and thinking about them brings up feelings of shame and disgust, but when trying to spell out exactly why, it's clear that as a child I wasn't any of those bad/negative things - the point of view I have of my inner child is the same point of view my parents had of me.  I had certainly read about how the inner critic was just an internal manifestation of your parents' contempt / shame / neglect, but I hadn't really felt an example up until that point.  Armed with that knowledge (and a steadfast determination to never end up like my parents) I think I can attempt to work on that inner child perception and maybe (hopefully) bond.

My homework for next session is to write a letter to adult me from the perspective of the inner child.  Still not quite sure how to get there, but I think it'll be an interesting experience.

I'm also (on my therapist's advice) going to take a few of the 'things my mother never said to me' lines and post them up somewhere visible, like my bathroom mirror.  I need to start saying them to myself.  That excerpt from the mom letter:

QuoteI'm glad you were born
You are a good person
I love who you are
I am always on your side
You can come to me whenever you're feeling hurt
You do not have to be perfect to be deserving of love and attention
I am always glad to see you
You can make mistakes
You can ask for help
I am proud of you

These were all things from Pete Walker's C-PTSD book that when I first heard them caused me to tear up.  They're all such powerful things that should be a 'given' for a child, but their absence is a painful wound that needs to be healed.

---

Had a few heated discussions with my wife the last few days as well.  It's been really hard for me to shake the feeling that there's risk in becoming my 'true self' through therapy and all this CPTSD work.  My old self, the one who shoved all this stuff deep down, was the person all my friends made friends with, the person who was hired at my current job, the person who my wife married - clearly something was working there.  As I said before being a dedicated 'fawn' does have some advantages, even if the cost is a sense of true happiness.

And within that, there's this social contract between myself and others where I'm the one who does all the extra stuff, and never gets mad, and is always there to help.  When my therapist or books or others tell me to take time for myself or prioritize my needs or assert myself I can't even imagine what that looks like in my current context.  When my day is full of fawning, and others expect me to do it, how would I be able to fit an hour of me time in there? 

It's been an uphill battle to convince myself that I'll come out the other side of this with all those relationships intact... and maybe I won't... but in the same breath maybe that's for the better?

I find in days and weeks like these where the therapy homework is hard it's a lot harder for me to focus on other things like work or social activity or staying positive... I've felt as though those things are dragging hopelessly behind.  Hopefully with the upcoming holiday break I can re-center a bit.

Hope everyone has a good week!

hi CrackedIce

What you wrote about your w resonates so much with me.
When my w met me 20 years ago, she called me an arrogant ***
I had confidence at work... she liked that I had the ability to do things.. plan dates, etc etc.
It's more than that obviously.. but as I crashed a few years back, I lost all confidence.
I asked her on Monday this week, "are you just terribly disappointed in me today?" and she had no idea where that was coming from.
I tried to buy her a present for christmas that day and had to leave the mall.. i was too stressed out.. it was really too much for me to handle.
So where does this leave her and me? Not easy... but I am really not sure I could have stopped this change. I didn't choose to become so empathetic, sensitive and so unsure of myself and every decision I make. It is what happened.. I face my past and try to grow or I'm angry now.
I think what's helped us (finally) is that I don't hide everything from her. I even told her about my inner childs... and being able to talk with them.
This does not come easy... and I still am hesitant to say too much all the time!
When I'm having a bad day, I can't be the husband she had before or wanted before. I'll still fawn like a pro... but the days are gone where I message her that I'm on the way home and I want to take her out. Or that I can even order dinner for us.
Sorry if this sounds discouraging.. I don't mean it to be.
She has changed too.... not quickly, but her sickness for the past year or two has impacted her tremendously. She is not the woman I married either.
She has terrible anxiety about that.. and guilt. In that way, we are so much alike ;) To me, she's way gentler herself. We both have some work to do.

All that to say, I truly believe that we have to love ourselves first. That horrible horrible cliche I always felt was a crock of bologna. But it's probably true .. and  as we slowly love ourselves and all our parts, I think we can love better. I know my love for my w is so much more now.. and I've only just begun (if I even have) caring for myself.
My w even told me this week that I have to focus on me too.

I hope you can navigate these tricky waters. I'm no good at other relationships, but I'm going to try in the new year to make a friend :)

Thanks phil72.  I feel like you and a few others on here are a few steps ahead of me on the same path, and appreciate you taking the time to point out what might be ahead.  It's comforting to know that others have worked their way through this, even if there's more work on the other side.

This path is so crooked and forked its hard to know where any of us is. Like chutes and ladders.

Quote from: Armee on December 21, 2022, 08:41:49 PM
This path is so crooked and forked its hard to know where any of us is. Like chutes and ladders.

EXACTLY!  :grouphug:

Ugh, I need to write in here more often.  Too many things floating in my mind.  Was hard to get away over xmas I guess.

Pre-xmas and leading into it, I was having a discussion with another c-ptsd support (we found each other on another site) about how the two of us seemed to be "less affected' compared to some others.  It was a question we mulled around a little, and I think it coincided with some of the reading I've been doing lately - the earlier the trauma starts in your life, the more affected may be by it.  There's a good breakdown of how developmental trauma affects the physical development of the nervous and hormonal systems in the book Healing Developmental Trauma by Laurence Heller, and Aline LaPierre (available on audible), so it makes sense that being put in that kind of position at a younger age would have a bigger effect on a person throughout their lifetime.

I've been feeling a bit of imposters syndrome on this forum, although I'm sure it's just the normal settling in for almost everyone who's joined the community here given that we all have a similar background.  It's nothing that anyone here has done, you all have been nothing but welcoming, but when it comes to reading others' posts and wanting to contribute support I usually run into a roadblock of "what could you add to this conversation that won't be said by someone who's had a more similar experience / they have an established relationship with?"  Bleh, this is starting to sound like a sympathy post.  None needed, just trying to get the thoughts out of my head.

Over the holidays the usual "I'm a spectator here" feelings when attending the wife's family functions.  A similar situation where no one on her side of the family is unwelcoming, but this is the time of year relatives get together and discuss the "good ol' days" - I generally just sit there and smile, as I had a very different experience of my childhood and can't really contribute.  The odd time I'm pulled in it's usually startling me out of my malaise and I give a quick answer that doesn't provide much opportunity for follow up - another defense.

Another feeling over the holidays is a sense of "going along for the ride".  My wife is trying to include as much as possible, but I tend towards "make sure everyone else is happy" so often when she asks me what I'd like to do over the break I can't think of anything that wouldn't be an inconvenience to others, so I generally just say 'whatever you guys wanna do'.  Another example of being so far removed from being able to express needs / be taken seriously in my childhood that I kind of coast along while life is happening all around me, waiting for the chance to be alone and safe.  Long holidays like this generally leave me feeling emotionally and physically drained, excited to get back to work where I can recuperate.  It's almost worse this year because of all the self-help and therapy I've been doing - I can now observe myself doing it, but still am not in a place where I feel like I can do anything about it.

Today I'm reminded of my other most common symptom of C-PTSD - attachment disorder (the first being the constant fawning to the point of exhaustion and only feeling safe when left alone).  I fairly often struggle with trying to resolve attachment needs against my fawning defense of not wanting to upset or go against my wife's desires (whether they're perceived or otherwise).  When the issue comes up, I'm in a constant debate in my head where one side is arguing that it's perfectly healthy for me to want to be intimate with my wife, where the other (much stronger) side insists that she's not interested in me physically / being a horny jerk makes me no better than the celebrities who get caught treating women like garbage / my needs are the reason our marriage is suffering / I'm acting this way because of a disorder / etc.  It also clashes with my other C-PTSD symptoms like being unable to express needs, surrendering boundaries, fawning, feeling unwanted, etc.

Any time she expresses the desire to be alone when I'm seeking connection I more often than not involuntarily fall into a rejection shame spiral which looks like all those reasons above, which bends my external mood to more of a withdrawn / disassociate state (as I'm spending so much energy inside my head).  She sees this, and connects the dots that it's due to the earlier slight, and then gets resentful that she can't say no without wrecking our day, which feeds into the shame feedback loop and makes me feel even worse.  It's got to the point where we sleep in separate floors of the house and I do my best to avoid the situation as much as I can because of how it often ends up.

And due to my inability to express my needs or stick up for myself (preferring fawn over conflict) she's basically set an unwritten 30 minute window twice a week where intimacy may have the opportunity to happen.  Which, as you can imagine, makes everything worse - pressure to act within that window, if it doesn't happen then there's no opportunity for it to happen later, interruptions (which happen often with kids / pets in the way) feel catastrophic, etc.  Any time I even feel a need for intimacy there's so much baggage that comes with it that I have started disassociating intimacy and love - years earlier I intertwined the two so closely that rejection felt much, much worse than it does now.  Almost as a self defense against further abandonment, I can now limit the effect of rejection to a physical aversion rather than an outright rejection of my person.

It's a sensitive topic as I didn't really receive any sort of relationship modeling growing up (my parents certainly weren't a shining example) and no one wants to talk about it - my therapist tends to avoid the topic, my wife either brushes it off or gets self-conscious or upset if I try to bring it up, and my only real input is either media (which is hyper-sexualized) or social media (which tends to only highlight offenders).  We're in couples counselling, which seems like the obvious place to bring it up, but even then I'm hesitant to because I know she'll be embarrassed (or worse) by the topic.

Bleh.  Well it feels good to get it down on paper rather than have it float around in my head, but still not great.  These feelings generally get worse when we're on a holiday together, as there's less to distract me and more time together.  Generally typing my thoughts out help me solidify what a future conversation with her may look like, so hopefully I can have a honest conversation about things in the near future.

Another bad day today.  Wife was on edge more than usual, likely because of my distance yesterday.  She went off on me a few times, to the point where I was a crying mess in my bedroom.  During my crying spell, I made three realizations:

1) When she gets randomly frustrated at me, it makes me feel like my stepfather's frustration towards me (and subsequent abuse) was justified
2) When she gets angry for me for not doing enough / doing the wrong things, I interpret it as invalidating my fawn response, which makes me feel unsafe
3) I am again in a situation where one of the few people who're supposed to love me, offers anger instead

My therapist would be saying "ask yourself, is it 100% true?"  And no, it's not, but in the moment it sure as h* feels like it is.

My wife came down later to talk about things, and I told her about those three points as well as more about C-PTSD (I don't think I ever told her the formal definition of it or how it affects me).  She more or less 'yes, but...' her way through the conversation, which left me feeling invalidated as well.  As is our usual dance I'm sure tomorrow she'll apologize and so will I, and everything will be closer to fine than not, but yesterday and today have not been fun.

Can't wait to get back to work.

I'm sorry, CrackedIce.
Your realisations sound very valid and very important. It's always good to know that we are not actually terrified/ frustrated/ etc. of the people in our immediate surroundings but by the incredible trauma that is stirred up when they trigger us somehow. I hope that knowing this will make it a little bit easier to deal with your wife's anger in the future but it sounds like a difficult situation to be in and I understand why you might wish to escape that. You really do not deserve to be treated in this way.
I wished people were a little bit more understanding of the effects that CPTSD is having on us. I know that someone who has never experienced abuse will never quite understand how long-lasting and all-encompassing the trauma really is, but I am just hoping for a tiny bit more empathy and awareness.
I have found very often that when I reveal things like that they either try to silence me because they don't want me to bother them with things like that or they treat the trauma as some kind of excuse - and either way it just makes me feel unworthy and invalidated.
But the trauma effects are very real. It does not only affect our behaviours and the way we see the world, it actually changes the structures of our brains and so it is incredibly difficult to change the way we react to situations like that.
So, please, try to not feel too bad about yourself. I know it's easier said than done but I think that your emotions are very real and very valid and you deserve a more empathetic understanding, rather than constant "yes, buts..."

I truly hope the couples counseling opens up room for more compassion and understanding from your wife.  :grouphug:

CrackedIce,

I feel your pain my brother.

I've been trying to respond to this post for two days now and keep getting tangled up in my own reasoning. The reasons for why our wives struggle with our C-PTSD are many. Sensitive, emotionally struggling men just have this problem all the time. We marry people who love us for being sensitive and emotional, but when we struggle with it, they sort of want us to be more of a John Wayne.

Just know, I struggle with a similar relationship too.

Coco and I have never tried couple's therapy. If you do try that, I hope to hear that it helps.

I'm happy to share more details of how we make it work, but not here and not now.  For now I just want to share that my wife and I have a similar struggle going as you and yours do now. And because of that, I'm on your side, and always willing to dive deeper into the hows and whys of it, but only if anyone asks.

M&H, thanks for the validation.  It's difficult to break out of the internal dialog / fear response mid-argument, but I'm trying my best.  I find instead of freezing as I have done in the past, I can move into more of an "unemotional, but responsive" state where I'm able to say my piece and respond but sound very detached and insincere despite my best efforts (which W doesn't appreciate either).  At least I'm communicating, so that's a good step forward I think.

Armee, thanks for the well wishes.  We've done our third session with our counsellor, he's pretty decent but I don't feel like we've really got to the heart of any of our issues yet.  It's hard for me to speak up at the sessions as a sense of shame usually overtakes me when I'm trying to explain my feelings or behaviours.  Hopefully with more sessions and built up trust it won't be as bad going foward.

Papa Coco, you definitely know where I'm coming from.  I constantly struggle with the conflict between "well, you obviously saw something in me when I was functioning as a fawn / unknown CPTSD victim" and the "everything you're asking me to do / change is extremely difficult for me".  I appreciate hearing that I'm not the only one in this boat, and any advice or experience you're able to share in the future will be more than welcome :)

---

Well, shortly after that last post my wife came down and apologized and reconciled with me.  We have a pretty regular dance of me putting some new information forward, her reacting badly to it, and then her coming back a few hours later with a clear head about the issue.  I think all the things I was explaining with CPTSD eventually sank in and she realized that it's not exactly an easy hill to climb some days.  The past few days have been much better between us.

I've been listening to Healing Developmental Trauma the last few days, and while it focuses on trauma in the first few years (about ages 0 - 5) it's been an interesting read so far.  Right now I'm listening to the breakdown of the attachment disorder and the "connection survival style" that develops from it, and how trauma even pre-birth has been found to have an affect on children.  I don't have any real knowledge of my life before the age of 5, having been no contact with my FOO for more than 20 years at this point, but the way they describe the symptoms of the attachment disorder and the fact that I was born to a 17 year old single mother who's had her share of FOO issues I think it's safe to assume that the first few years of my life weren't exactly peachy.

One of the key tenants of the chapter is how early stage trauma sets a child up to be re-traumatized in later stages; if your primary emotion / psychological response while gestating in the womb is a freeze/contract state due to your mother's stress / neglect / etc, then your body is already primed to react and retain that state going forward.  Because of that, you may be harder to soothe in your infancy, which (compounded with issues your mother likely already has) may lead to more neglect / abuse, and so on.  It's a crappy cycle to be caught in, and as infants we obviously can't do anything about it.

Another thing I noticed today is how uneasy others can make me while I'm trying to relax.  One thing that's really hit home for me in the last few weeks, and particularly over vacation, is how much I need alone time.  A realization I came to a few weeks ago was the hypervigilance I have when my wife or others are around - I constantly look for things I can do to look busy or clean or make life easier for others.  This is even more apparent when she's upset at me - I almost instantly start walking around the room looking for something to pick up or fold or put away.  The result of this is that I don't ever really truly relax until the late evening, when the kids are in bed, the wife's in the bath, and I'm alone by myself.

Realizing this helped me explain that whenever my wife comes downstairs to talk or ask me something once I've started this night "relax routine" I'm almost always agitated by it - it's because I'm suddenly responding to the intrusion by spitefully switching back into fawn mode.  It also explains why, when my wife asked me and the kids what we wanted to do this xmas holiday break, I couldn't really come up with anything - the thing I want to do, to actually relax and recoup a bit from work during the break, is be alone.  Of course, I can't actually say that, so I instead offer "I dunno, whatever you guys wanna do", and by the end of the holiday I'm counting the minutes until I can go back to my work-from-home desk.

Maybe a part of the issue I have identifying and communicating needs is that my needs generally don't involve or require others.  I know it's a side effect of C-PTSD and not having grown up with the experience of healthy, safe relationships, but it doesn't make it any less of a thing.

Anyways, hope everyone has a fun and safe new years!  I'm also going to try to check into the site less often - I often read everyone else's new posts when I'm unable to respond, and then forget to do so later.  Hoping by having a set time I can actually set aside some time to be more involved with others' posts.

Hi Crackedice,
I would like to wish you and your wife the best for 2023, and just say that I'm glad you've found your way to the forum, and that you're here.  I think the Healing developmental trauma information you are sharing in your journal is really interesting, and I relate to what you're saying about relaxing, and how hypervigilance happens in such circumstances. 

Seem to have lost my words now, but want to wish you the best for 2023.

Hope  :)

CrackedIce, I resonate with the need for a lot of alone time.  I also struggle to communicate that need with my husband.  The only time I am able to genuinely relax is when I am on my own in a place I feel comfortable.  I also resonate with being curious about my early life and the responses I was primed to use given what I know of my family history.  It is all connected.  I hope that you do find moments of ease before returning to work.

Hi Crackedice,

I'm sorry you're going through those difficulties with your wife. It sounds very stressful to be caught in that cycle. It sounds as if you are sharing with her bit by bit what has happened emotionally for  you in the past and she is able to relate and empathize with that.

One of the side effects of never having your needs met as a child is that you grow up expecting them not to be met. This could be why it feels better to be on your own or that you don't really feel like you have needs that include others. It could also be that it wasn't safe for you to express any of your needs. I'm not sure if this was already clear in your post or not. I remember feeling nothing about myself for a long time. What did I want, how did I feel? I had no idea because I was brought up not to recognize or even think about those things. It was just like a deadness and I looked up to people who could articulate their opinions on things. How could they do that?!  I felt like I was selfish for having needs, saying no etc. I still feel like I'm being "difficult" a lot of the time and will throw things out for reassurance from people because I don't know.

Sending you support and a happy 2023,
dolly

Thanks for popping in Hope & RainyDiary!

Dollyvee, I think you hit the nail on the head (and a lot of that is reinforced by reading through Pete Walker and John Bradshaw).  Even before my PA stepfather I was in a single-parent family with low income, so I imagine as early as possible I learned to be self sufficient if only to be less of a burden on my mother.  Once my SF entered the picture and made emoting (or even just stating needs) unsafe it just further reinforced my retreat into myself.  "What do I want?" "selfish for having needs" are things that have been coming up for me through my therapy and I still struggle with them today. 

The reassurance angle is interesting as well - I think I've mostly convinced myself that I don't need outward recognition from others, but at the same time there's a few distinct events I remember doing in my adult life where I more or less begged for validation from my bosses / friends / partners.  A part of what I've been reading in Healing Developmental Trauma presents the idea of opposite personas that evolve from trauma - for example, you can have a self-image of someone stoic, strong, who doesn't need the support of others, but at the same time have an inner turmoil about the lack of validation, acceptance, and rejection can hit you really hard when it happens.  Lots of other examples of counter personas in the book as well for other 'survival styles'.

---

Today was an overall good day, took it easy for once since the entire family was exhausted from staying up late (kids included!)  My wife was too tired to be busy around the house, so I didn't feel nearly as guilty as I usually do for taking it easy.

I noticed two things the last two days:

1) when I'm exhausted (i.e. late in the day), the fawn response kind of fades away and I can be more of my silly / playful self - noticed this when it was past 10 PM with the kids still awake.  We were able to play board games and I really enjoyed myself.  I think I just got to a point where I was too tired to try to maintain the fawn façade.

2) when I'm tired (i.e. not enough sleep) it's much easier to fall into an emotional flashback / shame spiral.  I caught myself this afternoon falling into the shame spiral trap but at the same time (likely because most of the day was so relaxed) I still had the mental faculties to notice and try to break out of it.  It took a bit of concerted effort, and going out for supper was enough of a distraction to break me out of it.  I actually tried one of the exercises suggested in John Bradshaw's Healing the Shame that Binds You - audibly telling myself 'stop!'  I don't think it necessarily worked (or if it did, not for that long), but it felt somewhat good to take steps in a positive direction.

Regarding point 1, and something I shared with my wife, I noticed when I'm in a relaxed state I often act quite childlike.  Almost like my brain is reverting back to my 8 year old self to try to continue development from when the trauma took over.  I'm usually more silly, playful, have a childlike voice, all the things I can imagine my younger self would do and want.  This state doesn't happen very often, but when it does it's a good, genuine feeling of 'being myself'.  Sometimes later I feel somewhat ashamed of this behaviour, but I imagine that's the inner critic getting control of the steering wheel again.

Edit: I forgot to mention the latest reading I've been doing!  Healing Developmental Trauma had a good breakdown of the "splitting of selves" that happens to children in traumatic environments.  TW for abuse/rage:

- The natural, biological response to abuse is rage; getting yourself physically geared up to defend yourself from attack
- For a child being abused by their parent, this directly conflicts with the core psychological need for attachment.  It's also often unsafe to express the rage (usually invites more abuse)
- Because of this, the child will often 'split off' the parts of their psyche that respond to trauma/abuse in order to maintain their core attachment needs.  The rage psyche is split off and hidden/repressed.
- With the rage removed, the attachment psyche needs to justify the abuse.  "I'm the bad one", "I'm unlovable", "There's something wrong with me" - development of the inner critic
- When the abuse is over, the attachment psyche seeks out attachment; the child cries or acts out (fight), removes themselves from the situation (flight), stops emoting (freeze), or looks for things to make their parents love them (fawn)
- With repeated abuse and/or the lack of 'closure' to the initial defensive response, the 4F response(s) gets ingrained as a default behaviour.  It becomes dangerous to seek attachment, so the mind downplays its importance (although it never truly goes away)

All laid out like that it makes total sense where these things come from.  This lines up with some of the Internal Family Systems / protector / inner child work my therapist and I have been doing the past year as well.

I still haven't done my therapy homework from last session, which was writing a letter to myself from the perspective of my inner child. I think I've convinced myself that I need to read some materials on how to channel your inner/younger self before I can attempt it, whether that's true or not I'm not sure.  I was planning on getting to that material once I was done my current audiobook, but I might short-circuit that to prioritize the activity so I can book my next therapy session.

I'm going to start writing down journal ideas throughout the day in a doc on my phone so that I don't forget what I want to emote/share here :)

Hope everyone had a good new years day!

HI Ownside,

I read your previous post about not responding right away and I think do whatever is right for you. I can't always respond right away after reading something as sometimes it just feels like too much.

My t and I have done a lot of work around validation although I don't think I necessarily always realized it. What she mentions a lot is that it's important to have had a witness growing up for the things that happened to validate my experience and what happened I think as there was no one to do it. When I'm looking for assurance from other people, I think it's that validation in a way. It's gotten better with therapy and as I begin to trust myself.

To me it seems understandable that you have some blocks (?) if it's the right word writing the letter to your inner child. I can imagine that connecting to your inner child is a pretty emotional experience. I think it took me years in therapy to start laying the mental groundwork before I could do the emotional groundwork in a way that was "safe' to do so. Emotions, for me, were also something that wasn't safe to have as a child, or were met or attended to by my m. I think it's hard for me to feel like my world is not falling apart or go into negative thinking cycles when they come up. This is my experience and please disregard if it doesn't fit/make sense etc.

Thank for the reminder about the Bradshaw book. It's been on my list and sounds like it is a worthwhile read.

Sending you support,
dolly

edit: Cracked Ice! not Ownside...maybe ADD and lack of attention to detail  ;D

Hey everyone!  It's been awhile since I've wrote, but figured tonight was a good chance to jot things down.

Shortly after my last post I had a really down day.  It was the last day of our holiday before my wife and I went back to work, and it all kind of came to a head - the arguments we had been having, the lack of affection the entire break, how fruitless it felt the therapy work I was doing felt... it more or less ruined my day, and then I felt even more guilty about it because it impacted my family's last day with all of us together as well.  The wife and I had another argument about it in the evening, which was even worse.

Then, something happened.  After she had gone upstairs, I broke down crying.  Straight up bawling.  Shame spiral and everything, curled up in my bed, sobbing, thinking how all of this was my fault because of not being able to handle my crappy childhood.  I'm not sure what compelled me, but I felt compelled to go upstairs to my wife's bedroom and ask for her comfort.  She wrapped me up in a comforter and held me until I calmed down, my head against her beating heart.  In retrospect it felt like some sort of touch therapy, going back to the neglected childhood roots and lack of touch / comfort / holding as a small child. 

I think something flipped in my head at that point.  The last few months (year or more really) my wife has been the aggressor in my mind - the only person in my life that yells at me, who gets mad at me, who says I'm frustrating, all of those negative things I've spent my life trying to avoid.  Really, that's only a fraction of the time, but those small moments are so triggering that it really overrides everything else.  But at that moment, in her arms, listening to her heartbeat as she was calming me down, she was the opposite of that.  A partner, a support, someone who cares.

Since then (and for the past week) things have been much better between us.  I've felt less on edge around her, we've had long conversations where I wasn't just trying to say whatever I needed to say to get out of there, spent time together, etc.  We've even been able to do some budgeting and long-term planning without getting upset with each other!  I'm not saying the next time she gets mad I'm not going to revert back to my fawn/freeze default, but this last week has been great.

I've started reading John Bradshaw's 'Homecoming' book, which centers around his Inner Child workshops, in an attempt to get me in tune with my own inner child in order to complete my therapy homework.  I've put off talking to my therapist since I kind of want to get that done before we meet again, but I've also been somewhat distracted getting back into work / kids to school / kids' activities / etc.  What I've read so far has been promising.  There's a small yes/no questionnaire at the end of chapter 1 of about 60 questions where if you answer yes to at least 10 of them you've likely got some inner child work to do - I hit 23 :/

I appreciate you sharing about that experience and am grateful taking the chance to seek comfort was supportive.

Crackedice

What a great report! It brings me joy to hear that you and your wife are getting along better and that you feel less like she's an aggressor. The way you listened to her heartbeat like that is beautiful. When any of us feels better, I feel better.  Thank you for sharing this with us all.  Keep up the good work, my friend!

PC

It's so hard to do what you did, to just go for your wife for a hug when you are in an emotional flashback. I've found the few times I've been able to do that with my husband thay it feels like the ticket out of this mess of horrid symptoms. It truly does help to let them in, even if we can't even express it in words, melting down into my husband's arms communicates it all and gets us mostly on the same page. My instinct is to never let anyone see me cry and to hide in the bathroom until my moods pass so I know how hard it is to do what you did, probably harder as a man. Good work.  :cheer:

Hi CrackedIce,

Those sound like big steps to make with your wife, congrats! I feel like those times when you can get "out of" the CPTSD are so important. It's like a glimpse into a whole, other life and that CPTSD is changeable.

Thanks for the recommendation on the Homecoming book as well. I had a quick look and I think there's a lot that's relevant and interesting in there for me too.

Sending you support,
dolly

Hey everyone!  Thought it'd be time for another check in.

The week has gone pretty well - kids are getting back into activities, so lots of opportunity to distract myself with other things.  It's times like this, where there's lots of ways to support the family / do housework / take care of things where sometimes I think my default fawn response is a kind of blessing.  But at the same time it's an easy excuse to not do any therapy work and just kind of ignore the core issues, and work until I'm exhausted which eventually ends with another breakdown / conflict.  Haven't got there yet, and we have a couples therapy session booked in two days, so maybe we'll intercept it.

Yesterday during the weekend I spent a lot of the morning idle, and I felt bad about it - like I hadn't accomplished anything and I was going to get in trouble.  My wife assured me that I should just relax, but I find that really hard to do when other people are up and about.  I can't really calm down until the evening when the kids are in bed and my wife's doing her own thing - that's the only time I feel like I can really relax.

We also were invited out on Saturday night on a whim from one of our friendly couples.  My wife asked me if I wanted to go, and I said no, but I would if she wanted to.  Brought to mind my classic example of me bending my wants and needs to make sure others are happy.  Luckily she picked up on that and we came up with a compromise.  I'm not sure why I said no (not that we'd be able to make it work anyways on such short notice) but the unplanned social contact kind of got to me a bit.  Not sure if that's a post-covid thing or a social anxiety thing or what... Generally I'm good around others if it's around a structured activity (I play a _lot_ of board games) but a casual "let's go out for appies!" thing kind of gets my anxiety up.  It's almost never been a bad experience the times I do end up going, but it takes a lot of energy to get myself into the mood for it.

Been continuing with both the Homecoming book by John Bradshaw and the Healing Developmental Trauma book. 

From Healing Developmental Trauma: the book has got into specific treatments for the therapist and has turned into a bit more of a therapy guide.  I think this book would be a better read than an audiobook.  That said, there was one concept in there that I thought made a lot of sense.  They talked about identifying "oasis's of organization"; the example in the book had the therapist stop a client when they started getting to worked up about a situation, and the therapist asked: "when was the first time you felt better after that situation?".  By getting the client to focus off of the bad situation and refocus their mind on a period of relief it was a way to train yourself to 'break out' of a negative cycle and find your way back to organization.  Thought it would be a neat technique to work on.

From Homecoming: it's finally got into the meat and potatoes of the book, where the reader is asked to do exercises.  The first one is a "letter to your inner child" after which your inner child is supposed to write back.  They recommend writing with your non-dominant hand and keeping it simple.  I still haven't done this exercise, and I'm not sure why...  The next exercise is a meditation which I've listened to twice while falling asleep and never make my way to the end.  It's full of affirmations for your infant inner child and imagining going back to 'recover' them.  I really like the idea of this, just need to do it when I can focus on it all the way through.

Outside of those two books, I had a really interesting conversation with a CPTSD peer online; he was asking what my 'role in the relationship (with my wife) is'.  Oddly enough, I couldn't answer.  His example was that he was kind of a buffer for his wife's explosive emotions, and they complimented each other.  I couldn't for the life of me explain how my wife and I fit together.  I've been so used to being an "island onto myself" for so many years; caring for myself, comforting myself, not being able to rely on others, that the thought that I need something from someone else at a relationship level is a strange concept for me, much less that I provide something to someone else at that same level.  I'm hoping that I'm just not able to verbalize the connection (clearly there's something there, or else why did we even get married?), but at the same time it kind of explains a lot of the relationship difficulties we've been having (and honestly maybe even my past relationships).  Might be an interesting thing to bring into our couples' session.

Hope everyone has a good week!

crackedice, it does sound like a good thing to bring into your couples session.  to me, the more information i can bring to my conscious mind, the easier it is for me to make rational decisions.  i enjoyed those excerpts from the books you're reading - i liked the oasis focus a lot, but the thought of writing to my inner child suddenly brought me fear.  interesting, all of it.  keep taking care of you, ok, and best to you both at your next session.  sending love and a hug, if that's ok. :hug:

HI CrackedIce,

Great post. Lots of good info in it. And good to hear that you are examining your relationship with your wife.

In one paragraph, you talked about Bradshaw's book, and you said "By getting the client to focus off of the bad situation and refocus their mind on a period of relief it was a way to train yourself to 'break out' of a negative cycle and find your way back to organization.  Thought it would be a neat technique to work on."

I think that's a well said sentence that describes why I made my 2023 commitment to end every post on a positive note. No matter HOW dark my post is, it can't end with that darkness. It has to end with a "call  to action."

The great news is, I find that it works! Refusing to leave the post without a positive solution idea gives me an action to take that helps rise me up and out of the negativity in my post. I find that no matter how dark my post was when I wrote it, my final paragraph has been lifting me up and getting me to leave the house, or call a friend, or do something positive that addresses the negativity in the main body of my post.

You put it so well. It is a way to train myself to "break out" of a negative cycle and find my way back to organization...and joy.

Thanks for sharing what you learned. You helped me to learn something too.

Have a great weekend!

Hey everyone, weekly journal update time!

Thanks for stopping by San and Papa Coco!  San - I've had a similar reaction attempting to reach out to my inner child.  Heck, even the thought of it a month or two ago was starting to give me physical symptoms - tight chest, heavy breathing.  I've done a few light exercises towards the inner child since then and the physical symptoms have gone away, but I don't think I've quite made the trusting connection yet (more on that below).  Despite that the insights I've gained during those exercises have been valuable.  Once you're in a place where you can try it out, I'd recommend it.

Papa Coco - I was definitely thinking of you and your posts when I was listening to the 'oasis' strategy!  I think there's little choices we can make every day that can start us down the path of positivity and healing.  The new book I've started listening to definitely follows along that theory, as well as other things I've read like in Pete Walker's C-PTSD book suggesting to journal things that went well each day.  The topic on here along those lines is a great example!  It's so easy to get caught up in our own minds and old patterns that it's sometimes hard to make those little choices, but every time I've managed it and stuck with it even a short amount of time it's always felt better!

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I've been trying to put a concerted effort towards the inner child work this past week, with a focus on the Homecoming "inner infant" exercises.  There's two main exercises in this chapter that I've been working on.  I should note, as it insists in the book itself, that it recommends that you're in a good place and/or have good resources (a therapist, caring friends, etc.) before attempting any of these if anyone's interested.  The exercises have the potential of kickstarting a lot of tough emotions, so it'd be easy to regress if you're not starting from a good spot.

The entire premise of the chapter is being there for your infant self in a way that your caregivers weren't able to.  The first exercise is writing to your infant self from the perspective of someone who's coming to adopt them and take care of them.  I was able to do this, although it felt a bit forced.  I eventually got to a place where I was writing some sincere thoughts (perhaps I'll share them later on Recovery Letters).  The immediate follow up to this is to write back to your adult self from the perspective of your infant self.  They suggest writing with your non-dominant hand so as to turn off your logical brain and get to a deeper place.  I quickly learned that I am completely incapable of writing with my non-dominant hand, but I did manage to get a few scribbles down.  I didn't really feel any big revelations during either writing assignment, but it's down on paper now at least, and I can refer back to them as needed.  Part of the task is to read the words back to yourself and try to feel any emotions that come up - perhaps in the near future, a few days past the initial effort, it'll trigger something.

The second exercise is a meditation, focusing around affirming phrases that your infant self needed to hear.  These phrases have really got to me in the past, even reading them can usually trigger a small response internally, so I was thinking the meditation would be a good step forward.  Someone's recorded themselves hosting the meditation on youtube - https://youtu.be/JPAx74WEoB8 - so I've been using that to guide myself through it.  The first two times I tried it I started to fall asleep, but the third time I made an effort to start it early before I normally go to bed and sit through it.  It was a weird feeling, probably the most intense one I've felt through a meditative exercise, but I don't think one that's intended.

The goal of the meditation is to get in touch with your inner child, let them know that we're there for them, tell them the things they needed to hear, and assure them that they're in a safe place now and we'll take care of them.  During the part of the meditation where you take on the role of the infant, listening to all these nice reassurances, I felt paralyzed.  Almost out of fear?  I laid in bed, tingly, almost as if hyperaroused and afraid to move.  The tail end of the meditation slowly takes you out of the meditative state, and I was able to feel my way out of the frozen state, but it was an intense experience, likely worth diving into more.

Maybe now that I've spent some time at that level I can finally feel good about setting up my next therapy appointment and talk through some of that with my therapist.  I don't think I should move on to the next chapter of the Homecoming book (which is your Toddler self) without processing this part properly first at any rate.

I've finished Healing Developmental Trauma (or at least got to a point where I didn't want to continue - the last quarter of the book is just sessional reports) and have moved on to How To Do The Work by Dr. Nicole LePera.  She's become famous on instagram as the "holistic psychologist", and I'm a bit skeptical of things since she seems to be as much about marketing as she is about actual psychology, but I've liked what I've heard so far.  The other books I've read seem to be at a more technical level, so I think I have the appetite for something a bit more practical.  One of the first things she recommends is a "future self journal" - basically recording promises to yourself to make things better in micro-increments.  I haven't formally started the process yet, but adding things like "drinking more water and less coffee" or "no snacks after 8pm" are on my future list - changes I've tried to maintain in the past, but have fallen out of pattern with eventually.

One last thing before I wrap up... my kids were watching Bluey (a fantastic show, full of stellar parenting and empathy) and an episode came on that had confused me the first time I saw it.  The episode is called Space, and features three kids playing 'spaceship' with each other.  One of the kids (Mackenzie) often finds himself trying to be 'left behind' on purpose - his friends don't understand why, and he doesn't really either, but he keeps coming back to it.  He eventually breaks away from the other two friends and enters a tunnel, where on the other side he imagines a younger version of himself, dealing with the trauma of abandonment.  In this case, he had simply misplaced his mom at the park, but it clearly left unresolved feelings in his older self.  His other caretaker, the lady who runs his daycare, helps him find his mom in this imagined state, and then turns to him and says "You know what's here now, you don't have to keep coming back to this place".

Not the first time an episode of Bluey has made me tear up, but watching it a second time, and knowing all I know now about childhood trauma and inner children and unresolved issues that episode hit me square in the feelings.

Anyways, thought I'd share that.  Hope you all have a good week!

Hey CrackedIce,

Great journal entry. I'm learning a ton from your journal.  I don't listen to books because my attention span is so bad I can't stay focused. So I have to read the books, which takes a while too because...well...my attention span. I do read them, it just takes a while.

I had ONE reaction I really wanted to share back with you. While I was reading your paragraphs on Infant memories, I started to shiver. I've never, ever once considered trying to access my infant self, but when I read your paragraph, I sort of let myself do so while I was reading.

Fear gripped me. I felt like I was in a screaming tornado. I had 3 tween siblings when I was born. Two girls who were both very high energy, and a brother who was distant and immature. It felt like they were screaming and shouting and just being...well...a tornado of anxiety all around me. Then, while still reading and comprehending your written words, I heard my narcissistic middle sister, who would have been 11 or so at the time, screaming SHUT UP!!!!!!!! at me. So, again, my attention span was doing two things at once; 1) reading your words while 2) listening to my sister scream at my infant self. 

I confess: It terrified me. 

I think I might benefit from doing some of the work you're doing with infant self.

I think I can sense now that her lifetime of abusive treatment of me and my future baby sister began the minute we were born.  My infant experience feels like it was just a constant escalation of anxiety by a highly dysfunctional family of giants surrounding me. 

Anyway: My point is that what you're learning and sharing in your journal is making a profound impact on me. You're piquing my curiosity about my own infant beginnings. I'm impressed by how hard you're working at gaining control over your trauma responses, AND I'm following your lead and starting to want to know more about what you're learning. I think I see some more book purchases in my future.

Thanks SO MUCH for sharing with the detail level you share with. 

Whenever I sign copies of my books for people, I write "We're stronger together" then I sign my name. The overarching theme of my writings is that C-PTSD is about all the myriad ways we are each wrongfully made to feel isolated and unwanted. The greatest joy we can hope for is to start realizing the truth; that we are connected, even though we don't feel like we are. But we ARE connected. And sharing with each other is how we prove it. This morning's journal post of yours is proving me right. We C-PTSD survivors are stronger together!

Hey everyone!  A bit overdue, but thought I'd check in.

Papa Coco: I'm glad my musings are helping!  I think reaching back that far into your psyche can be a rewarding but equally hazardous experience, and likely best done with someone nearby (loved one, therapist, trusted friend, etc) in case anything does come up.  I wish you success!

Most of my work the last week and a half has been around the "How to Do the Work" book I've been listening to.  The book has been an interesting read in that it references a lot of the topics I've read about in depth so far - toxic shame, parasympthetic/vagus nerve systems, childhood trauma, etc. - but in an easy to parse format.  It's like the Oprah's Book Club presentation of C-PTSD!

One of the things it highlights in its opening chapters was how her approach was different from the traditional western systems of medicine, where physical and mental issues are kept entirely separate from each other and treated differently.  It also avoids the standard western approach of "mask/treat the symptom", instead treating the body / mind / soul as a whole and trying to address issues by getting to the root causes.

When they mentioned that it reminded me of an exchange I had with one of my good friends of Chinese descent.  We were travelling together and he was saying that he had a massive headache.  I immediately offered him some tylenol, which he refused.  "My parents taught me that pain is you're body's way of telling you something is wrong - why ignore it with painkillers?"  I thought it was really weird at the time, but looking back from this new perspective it makes all sorts of sense.

One of the first exercises I went through with my therapist was grounding - just paying attention to what your body, your mind was feeling when in a flashback.  I had spent so much of my life simply 'turning off' and ignoring the pain that it made complete sense that I didn't realize I was anxious, I was short of breath, I was contracting my stomach every time I had an emotional flashback.  From there, learning to listen to those signs gives a way to short-circuit the flashback and move forward.

Anyways, the book has been good, albeit a bit lighter than what I'm used to.  It has some good exercises that I really need to start doing... I find that I enjoy reading about what to do more than I enjoy actually doing it :P

On a different note, my wife and I had another run in last week... a case where she just wanted to vent and get some reassurance, which conflicted with me showing up in the conversation.  It's times like that where my old disassociating 'smile-and-nod' approach likely would've worked better, but I instead did what we discussed at other times / in couples therapy / what I've been personally working towards and showed up with more of myself.  I'm still not really sure how to process that conflict... part of me sees that part of the reason I fell into the disassociating patterns with my wife in the past was because that's what she actually wanted/needed, but now that I'm closer to the other side of that reaction it upsets me that she'd prefer that shell of a person to simply vent at.

The good news is that I was able to verbalize that this time around (in the past it'd just end up with me sulking and feeling bad about myself for a few hours) and we had a good talk about it, so hopefully that can be less of an issue going forward.  It's kind of dumb how much of the relationship stuff is tied up in communication and not being able to do it... once you get over that hurdle things are slightly easier.

Finally, had a good conversation with my cptsd discord buddy about asking for things (or rather, not being able to).  Related to the communication aspect, we were reflecting on how hard it is for us to simply ask for our needs and wants to be met by others, likely due to growing up in an environment where, at best, your needs were ignored.  Or at worst, they were used against you.  I reflected on how often instead of asking my parents for what I needed, I sat and stewed in my room, knowing that I wouldn't be able to get it.  It's funny how I still do that now... instead of asking my wife if she'd want to join me to watch a show I'm really interested in I'll create a narrative in my mind about how she'd never go for such a thing and end up brewing in my own completely-unjustified resentment without saying a word.

Lots of stuff to work on, but still feel pretty good about where things are at.  Hope everyone has a good week!

you're processing so much, C, i hope you don't forget to take some breaks for yourself every so often.  lots of books, authors, points of view . . . could any of that have an impact on not wanting to do exercises that have been presented?  just a thought.  keep taking care of you, ok?   love and hugs :hug:

Hey CrackedIce,

That sounds like a good/big step that you had with your wife and verbalizing what you needed and dealing with the feelings that cam up afterward. To me, I don't think it's dumb at all that communication is such a big hurdle. It's tied to what you had to go through growing up and it's understandable that it's a big issue that there's some apprehensiveness in doing it. The person who had to go through those things mattered at that time and so does what you had to do to survive.

I'm finding that as a fearful-avoidant I have a very hard time being vulnerable with other people and asking for a need/ boundary was always met with retaliation. So, I'm constantly in survival, is this safe mode when things like that come up. I also had issues around doing the exercises in the Self-Therapy IFS book by Jay Earley, and he suggested to do an IFS session around that if it comes up, which I did, and it brought up some stuff for me that I'm still untangling to this day haha!

Sending you support,
dolly

Quote from: CrackedIce on February 02, 2023, 03:35:31 AM
Finally, had a good conversation with my cptsd discord buddy about asking for things (or rather, not being able to).  Related to the communication aspect, we were reflecting on how hard it is for us to simply ask for our needs and wants to be met by others, likely due to growing up in an environment where, at best, your needs were ignored.  Or at worst, they were used against you.  I reflected on how often instead of asking my parents for what I needed, I sat and stewed in my room, knowing that I wouldn't be able to get it.  It's funny how I still do that now... instead of asking my wife if she'd want to join me to watch a show I'm really interested in I'll create a narrative in my mind about how she'd never go for such a thing and end up brewing in my own completely-unjustified resentment without saying a word.

Good morning CrackedIce,

This paragraph resonates with me. Same as you, my needs were always either ignored, laughed at, punished or just plain invalidated. My family's needs were all valid, but mine were not. So I was called "selfish" if I wanted something for myself. Subsequently, I have a mountain of guilt to climb each time I really do want something for myself, even today. After decades of various treatments, the mountain is still there. My wife and son and family would give me anything if I'd just ask for it. But I can't ask for it. And when I DO get something frivolous (which, in my fractured mind, means something I want that doesn't benefit anyone but myself = Frivolous) I punish myself for getting it. And this applies consciously, subconsciously, or supernaturally. Somehow, I successfully reach humiliation or punishment any time I get something I want just for myself.

I think it frustrates the people who love me because they can see me holding back, refusing to ask for their help, or for their support, and being sheepish about accepting it even when they offer without me asking.  All the reading, and therapy, and treatments during the decades of hard work have helped me to at least recognize this phenomenon. I am getting better at allowing people to help me, but I still can't really ask when I need help.  This is a win. I may still have the mountain of shame to climb each time I want or achieve something that I want or need, but at least, because I recognize it, I'm able to talk it out with my people and I'm able to force myself to take the courage to accept their support, (...sometimes) even though it gives me a queasy stomach to do so.

I hope the workbooks are helping you with your situation. I'm taking any win I can get even if I still have the mountain to climb. The mountain is still there, but at least I'm willing to climb it now, rather than just sit in my room and fantasize about being able to get what I want or need. Where you used to sit in your room and stew, I used to sit in my room and distract through daydreaming about being someone other than myself.

I hope you have a great day too.

QuoteI was called "selfish" if I wanted something for myself.

too true, PC.  good for you, C, for asking for what you need/want.  i have decided to change the word 'selfish' when it comes to self-care to 'self-ish', as in doing something for my 'self', focusing on what my 'self' needs, which is a good, healthy thing.  it's helped me take away the neg. stigma of looking out for my 'self'.  keep up the good work!  love and hugs :hug:

Hey everyone!  A bit long but I thought I'd get back on the weekend schedule for posting.

San, thanks for stopping by!  I definitely use research and reading and learning as an excuse to not actually _do_ any of the exercises that I'm learning so much about.  It's easier to stay in my logical brain than to dive down into my emotional or fear-based brain... I only really did that when I had therapy sessions, and it's been nearly two months since I've done one of those.  Perhaps I should get back into that.

Dollyvee, thanks for the encouragement and validation!  I always find some of these steps hard, in that it seems so obvious - "of course you need to ask for what you need" - yet when I'm in the moment it's like pushing a boulder up a hill.  I tried listening to the original IFS book, which had the meditative sessions recorded properly, but didn't really get that far with them on my own.  Yet another reason to try to dip back into therapy.

Papa Coco, I appreciate the commiseration :)  For me, it was always the threat of violence that made me want to be as small as possible - if I wasn't visible, if I wasn't needy or asking for things, I wasn't around the people that could hurt me.  Even if those people were also the ones who were supposed to be a source of love.  Enter that whole attachment dysfunction where my shame compensates for the lack of love, and so on.  I think that frustration from our current loved ones explains a lot of my relationship troubles as well; it creates a distance that those that don't have these defensive walls never have to deal with.  The anxiety and stress I feel is palpable any time I get to a point where I have to ask for help.

---

Have continued reading the How to Do the Work book.  It's still quite good despite straying away from the more serious forms of abuse.  One thing it's reminded me of is trying to stay grounded and present during emotional flashbacks, and one particular trigger I've noticed is when my wife asks me to repeat myself.  An innocent query almost instantly sends me into anger.  I've always kind of thought about it as just a personality quirk of mine, one of the few things that really upsets me, but upon reflection I think it is an example of my subconscious reaching out to me.  Something in my past made being asked to repeat myself dangerous, and my brain is still sent to that place when it happens now.

On a similar note, my grandparents have recently moved closer to me as well, and my two aunts live close by in the same city, but the thought of seeing any of them sends me into an anxious state.  I know I can't go there with my full self, that I have to be a certain kind of person.  And it's not even necessarily that they're bad, but I just feel like I have to be on the defensive.  My grandmother longs for me to 'forgive and forget', and my aunts just don't understand why I'm so distant.  Until recently I didn't either.  But that doesn't make it any easier to see them, and I really do have the option to just, not go.

Typing that out it feels like I'm running away from that particular issue, and honestly I have been for the last 10 years.  When I talked about that particular thing with my therapist she pointed out that despite all they have done for me over the last few years, it was never 'okay' for me to be around my extended family.  Yet another thing my stepfather has wrecked.  *sigh*

As I've said about four times now, I really do need to get back into a therapy cycle.  I'm finding it really hard to resist my past vices, falling into various forms of external comfort that I know are actively bad for me.  Now that I've been doing all the learning I have over the last year, I can understand that they're attempting to fill the void left behind by long festering attachment wounds.  Despite all this knowledge I find myself falling backwards, or having to do a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid it.  I've found that I've had more mental fortitude when I was in therapy regularly.

The current chapter of the book I'm on is about Trauma Binding, how our past traumas cause us to seek out and relive those traumatic relationships due to the neural pathways forged in our youth.  Growing up in a stressful environment wires our brain to seek out stress, our 'normal' state.  In adulthood this comes from those addictive behaviours the paragraph before and our relationships (romantic, work, family, or otherwise).  Not being seen or heard, being manipulated, not having boundaries, parents who lack emotional regulation, all create these voids that are etched into our grey matter, which our brain later seeks out as a normal, 'I understand how to process this' state.

This eventually creates a situation where both partners are feeling like their needs aren't being met, start resenting each other, and that's where we see the high divorce rate.  I can easily say that's where the relationship with my wife was last year around this time, when I started therapy.  But now that I better understand myself and where these thoughts are coming from, we're in a much better place.  It's not great, we still have our bad days, but it's definitely better.

Today was a good example of both a bad day but also how much better things are compared to how they used to be.  End of the week, we're both tired, and getting on each other's nerves.  I enter a bit of a spiral in my head - "she spends all her energy on work and the kids, of course I get nothing", "I make it easy for her to neglect me", "This is your lot in life now, you've done it to yourself, accept it".  But, I'm able to short circuit myself.  Simply calling it out internally, "I'm spiraling", is enough to snap me out of the self-reinforcing circle of thoughts.  Now, I was still a bit snippy and grumpy for most of the night, but not nearly to the same degree I would normally be.

I also wonder if I'm gaslighting myself a bit here - are those valid thoughts to have?  Should I be legitimately upset that I do usually get the short end of the stick?  Or am I just allowing my past to make the situation worse than it is?  Of course, bringing it up in the moment would just end up with an argument, but later once everything's calmed down I generally avoid those topics so I don't 'stir the pot' either.  Just another example of conflict avoidance / fawning I'm sure.

Anyways, I've rambled enough here.  As always I appreciate everyone stopping by and dropping in your thoughts, opinions, and suggestions.  Hope everyone has a good week!

PS> After seeing a few of you mention EMDR therapy I did some looking into it, it definitely seems interesting!  I found an online self-guided therapy for it, might give that a try although I'm not sure how effective 'self-guided' can be.  There are also local practitioners but I'm not sure how comfortable I am switching from my current therapist (despite not having seen her in months).  Anyone have any experience with EMDR, self-guided or otherwise?

Hey Cracked Ice. Good to hear from you again here! Lol I have had those exact same thoughts...

Quote from: CrackedIce on February 11, 2023, 05:19:17 AM
"This is your lot in life now, you've done it to yourself, accept it". 

They serve a good purpose to stop feeling hurt, get over it, shutup, and stay safe. Reminding yourself you are spiraling is a great solution. I'll try borrowing that. 

I'm sorry you are feeling neglected by your wife. After everything you do for her and your family that probably hurts a lot. And of course you have needs for connection too even if you were trained to suppress them.

I don't know if this is helpful or not so I'll offer it with the invitation to ignore it if it isn't helpful. In the recent past I was a working mom, dealing with the kids melting down from covid lockdowns, and caring for an elderly mom. For sure there were years long stretches my husband was the very last thing on my list and I had no energy for him. I still loved him dearly bur he was the one person in my life who didn't need things from me to survive.

Imagining a hypothetical Friday night,  at the first relief from all these duties, I would have rushed to the bathroom and locked myself in a warm bath for hours. Hypothetically if my husband started complaining that I was neglecting him (true) I would have spiraled myself and would have been resentful and defensive and would have even less to give because he'd then be needy too like everyone else. But if he gently knocked on the door and asked me how my week was and empathized with how much I was doing and said something like "I can't wait for all this to be over so we have more time just relax together on the couch and reconnect...I miss spending time with you" I probably would have also felt some longing to make time for him and possibly would have emerged a bit sooner than otherwise.

Do home date nights work? Sorry I'm advising. You deserve her attention and you need her attention and that's a beautiful thing that said right could melt your wife.

I do EMDR with my therapist. I posted a lot on the thread started by Polly and am happy to answer any questions you have. I chose to stick with him rather than do emdr with a different therapist because for complex trauma the relationship is more important than the tools. Eventually he got trained. He thanks me often for pushing him to get emdr training because it is helping him help other clients much faster.

Definitely hit the nail on the head with that one Armee. I could definitely see that approach working. The main hurdle is making sure I can get to a place of empathy... Which would require getting out of my spirals and climbing into a warm happy place where I can be authentic. Honestly that sounds really hard to do in those circumstances, and the critic in me is instantly responding with "why are you the one who has to move mountains?", But at the same time I totally see how that would be the best approach. And our couples therapist said pretty much the same thing :P

Thanks for the reminder that you had talked to your existing therapist about EMDR - I may try the same and see what she thinks!

Ah yes that's right the wicked triggers definitely keep us out of an ability to deal with things that way. Me, too. Just different triggering circumstances. It's slowly getting easier to be less triggered but it took a few years of hard work.

Good luck with T. It took mine a few nudges to follow through. But once he signed up for the training literally in one of our sessions it was a pretty short training process.