People making assumptions because you *look* ok on the outside.

[Sienna]

Do you guys ever have people tell you that you look well, and that you are doing good, and that you are a really happy person?
That you *are happy*.
It really annoys me.
And dissociation i think makes me appear ok about everything.
But those things I'm not ok about, they are gone in the morning and know one sees me in those times of pain.
And it seems that others ask how i am and if i give a tiny grain of salt of honesty, they either laugh it off, or they dont say anything.
I was testing things out.
So now I'm back to saying *im fine thanks, how are you?*
as my robotic, staged response.
Know one wants to see me, and know one wants to see me when I'm not ok, even if I'm not going on about it or crying.

I cant stand when others tell me what my emotional state is, or that I'm looking well, because sure i do look well, but that doesnt mean my body isn't hurting, and that I'm to broken inside emotionally and overwhelmed, not knowing how to cope. 

[Danaus plexippus]

Yeah, I do the, "Fine thanks, how are you?" thing too. It's basic etiquette. Then I ask, "How do you like this weather?" Don't show your insides to everyone. I had a long-time-toxic-frienemy that would rattle  on for hours about the tragedy of her life    . I put up with her out of pity, till she invaded my privacy, vandalized my property, lied to me, tried to con me out of money and tried to make me look bad to others. The real kicker was the day she admitted to making sexual advances to my husband. Be VERY careful who you show your insides to. Make people earn your trust before going beyond the banal pleasantries. Politeness is a good first step. As others perceive you as safe, they may let their guard down enough for you to see who they really are. Even then, take your time about letting people know how vulnerable you really are. Before revealing the deep dark pit of despair that enshrouds you, ask yourself if I were a stray cat would I even let this person get anywhere near me? Practice acquiring casual acquaintances before even thinking about intimate friendships. That takes years and even then we have no guarantees it won't all go bad, turn around and bite us in the @$$  

[featherfalling]

That sounds very frustrating to deal with.  I've definitely gotten "I would never have believed you were depressed!" from some of my friends, because I buried it so well until I was alone. Your emotions are yours, and they exist, even if they're not apparent to others, or others don't want to see them.  I've felt broken inside too, and overwhelmed, and all I wanted to make it stop - having people tell me I seemed fine would have been the most counter-productive thing ever!   Internet hugs (if you want them) from someone who's been there, or somewhere similar at least. 

If you don't mind a bit of advice for reading on the subject, look up "apparent competence."  It's a term used in DBT, to describe how someone can appear "ok" but be falling apart on the inside (as well as some other things, but that's not as relevant).  It describes how body language can completely disconnect from your mental state (in your case from dissociation), so that if you're telling them "I feel awful" your body language is saying "ehh, I'm alright" and most people use body language cues to read your emotional state.  Which is really unfortunate.  If you have people you are close with, or tend to talk about your emotions with, I would recommend telling them that your body language may not correspond with how you are feeling, and that how you say you are feeling is how you are feeling, and if they are unsure they should ask, not assume.  It's not an excuse for them invalidating your emotions, but resources you find explaining it could help them understand where you're coming from.

[snailspace]

Oh my goodness this is me alright!  Hidden my internal turmoil from the world and even to some extent from myself.  Thanks!

[arpy1]

omg, yup, that's me, too.
the only person i am vulnerable to - and i have to be desperate to do it - is my GP, sometimes. but then he never makes assumptions about how i am nor tells me how i feel or even how i should feel.  so he is fairly safe. otherwise i tidy up the crap before presenting to anyone else. even people who don't seem to judge me.
for me it's just not safe to let people see my pain and despair - they tend to reject me if i do. or give me advice to 'fix' me which is code for trying to stop me from making them feel uncomfortable.  i know this becos i do it to other people too. i guess we all do. pain is uncomfortable to witness. even in someone else. masking is a sad social imperative i think.

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes, I can relate. That is why support groups like this are so important.

A thing to keep in mind is that the 'news' you are spreading is completely new to the other person, while for you it's been present for a long time. Yet, for you it's also new to finally spill the beans.
It takes time to adjust, for both persons involved, but to a certain extend more for 'the other'. You are 'just' reaffirming what you have kept inside for a long time. For the other it's 'coming out of the blue'.

Which is not to say your reaction is inappropriate, out of bounds or 'wrong' in any way. It's there, and it's OK, natural.

In my personal experience it works a bit like this: when I finally speak out, make a public admission of the emotional state I'm in, it's another step in self-validation. I want to have it reciprocated immediately, I've waited so long after all. It's disappointing to be faced with another waiting period.
Sometimes people respond better attuned the second time you tell them. Sometimes not.

[Sienna]

Hi Featherfalling,

thank you so much for your reply.
Im so sorry you struggle too with this and I'm sorry your fiends said that to you.
I have heard that too when discussions happen (that i never started) about who's unstable and who's depressed. One guy told me in so happy, the most stable person at this college, i would never be depressed, when i was actually struggling with cptsd- didnt know back then, social anxiety, and was very depressed. I hid in my room and could only come out if i could face others and face putting on an act again. I dont think he even noticed my absence.

Your emotions are yours, and they exist, even if they're not apparent to others, or others don't want to see them. 
I know. maybe the pain and emptiness comes from not being able to comfort my inner child.
But i also think it comes from- as i read in the article- there being such a separation between your true self- your inner experience- and the side you show to others.
No authentic relating can happen when it is that way.

Thank you for the hugs. Hugs to you too. 

Thank you for suggesting i look up apparent competence. I am all up for help and learning about things.
This is exactly me to a T. I was never able to describe it before.
I think that its another name for Counter Dependance...but I'm not sure.
They both seem really similar and I am very Counter Dependant, not Co-Dependant.

How interesting about body language.
I have to say, i did cry a lot when i read the articles about it online.
It reflects me so much, and my parents parenting if you want to call it parenting- they made me this way. Everything had to look good on the outside, i was never allowed to show *weakenss or feelings* and i was never allowed to as for help.
i had to grow up way before i was capable of taking care of myself.
Im so angry with them for causing me so much pain.

Once, i tried to change my body posture so that i would look more confident- but i couldnt do it...and i think now that that might have been because i already do look that way.
I have had comments, people just randomly saying how happy and confident i am.

If you have people you are close with, or tend to talk about your emotions with, I would recommend telling them that your body language may not correspond with how you are feeling, and that how you say you are feeling is how you are feeling, and if they are unsure they should ask, not assume.
Thanks for that.

The person who said it was blind...but people whatever blind or not..they say it and it is still an invalidation, weather or not you can see the person!

Thank you so much. Do you mind if i ask where you are with apparent competence? ...how you are getting on? 

[Sienna]

No problem Snailspace.
Im sorry you experience this too.
I think its really painful at times.
Intermal turmoil- yes, i think that accurately describes it, and yes, i hide it from myself too. Lately, it has started seeping through my...self denial i guess. I think it will go back to normal with some hope and i wont feel it anymore...but i know thats not healing.
I just want to *feel* strong again.

Big hugs to you: 

[Sienna]

Arpy1

Im sorry you struggle too.
I am the same, i only reach out when i am desperate and very ...flighty..is the only way i can think to describe it..when adrenalin is high that I'm not caring about anything- just purely survival.
i am glad you GP is safe.
My T is like that. I think anyway. She accepts what comes and maybe thats because i never presented a front to her...or maybe i did...im not sure if i did or not.

i tidy up the crap before presenting to anyone else. even people who don't seem to judge me.
haha, tidy up the crap. Yes, i do that too.
Do you mind if i ask you how you do that?
I put on an act which is exhausting. In the evenings i am so tired.
Sometimes -and I'm not sure if this is OCD or dissociation, or both, but the crap piles up if i dont talk about it...and then i feel lost.
Like i cant even remember what was wrong and i feel empty in a weird way.
So before seeing others, i need to know who i am at least, because i loose myself when I'm not being myself around others, they dont see the real me either, so the least i can do is know myself before i go and pretend to be happy around them.
So i list in my head, or on paper , what was wrong, so then i know where i stand.
Sometimes i feel like i cant remember even the recent past (the last week / last few days / what was bothering me) and I'm just floating in the middle of my life (as the future- you can not see)
I hope I'm making sense. Ive never talked about this before.
Writing it down, it does sound like dissociation to me, and maybe i am trying to get an element of control back by trying to remember.

I was rejected too by my parents for pain.
And others dont know what to say.
I was a fixer too. I tend to sprout what ive learned about - but subtly to others ... i cant just let them be. I'm not sure. I'm not sure of a lot . i need to work on that.

You are right, masking is a social imperative.
Im sorry you struggle and that youve had such bad experiences with others. 

[Sienna]

Hey Dutch,
Thank you for your..info.
Im also sorry this is your struggle, but I'm not surprised to be honest. I think i can just tell with some people the types who do.

I just want to say, that I'm not *spreading news*.
These who i have been honest with, have seen me about, but came forward and was supportive to me when X left.
I realise that i dont know how to say who I'm really doing, unless its all positive..you know...when someone says...
How are you...?

Even though this one person said they were here for me regarding the X thing...they are inconsistent and dont know what to say.
that was only one conversation and i was in a bad way when i Facebook messaged them.
and they measured me that they want to be here and to message whenever.
it took a lot for me to do it.
But like..whatever..thats that.

I would understand if i started this new thing of telling everyone about my stuff- how I'm feeling a LOT but I'm not.
i was just upset that people think I'm fine, and never ask. -Because when they ask me its not appropriate for me to be honest as we are around others. people have their own stuff going on.
and the small times i did say how i was...there is just no response. and I'm not saying *im suicidal and i want to jump of the nearest bridge*

I honestly just think that you un consciously attract what you are..and I'm attracting emotionally unavailable and closed off others. People who may not see themselves, so how can they see anyone else..even if that other person is honest?
These people have bad paring too and probably Cptsd though they dont know it.

It takes time to adjust, for both persons involved, but to a certain extend more for 'the other'. You are 'just' reaffirming what you have kept inside for a long time. For the other it's 'coming out of the blue'.
Thanks Dutch.

Thank you for saying that how i feel inside is valid.

In my personal experience it works a bit like this: when I finally speak out, make a public admission of the emotional state I'm in, it's another step in self-validation. I want to have it reciprocated immediately, I've waited so long after all. It's disappointing to be faced with another waiting period.
I understand. Its hard. I wonder if we or..i...want or need validation from the outside?
i mean, sometimes, if i actually think that how i feel is stupid.
But i dont feel i need validation from others about how i feel and weather its right or ok or not.
Maybe its more, that i know its valid, but I'm alone. I feel like ive been in one constant flashback for a while..and T thinks its my inner child, thinking *knowone cares about me* and she said its a huge weight for her to carry.
i dont know what it is. Loneliness? a whole the was not met back then in childhood?
a normal human need to be real for a while and to have connection with others? to feel cared about?

Thanks so much Dutch.

[Dutch Uncle]

I just want to say, that I'm not *spreading news*.
These who i have been honest with, have seen me about, but came forward and was supportive to me when X left.
I realise that i dont know how to say who I'm really doing, unless its all positive..you know...when someone says...
How are you...?

I see. That indeed is a different situation.
Again, speaking from my own experience: I've learned to tell those who are 'in the know' (but don't 'get it'): "I'm feel like doing two steps forward, one step back." Which isn't untrue by the way. In general these people care for me, and at times I see the pain/distress in there eyes, an empathetic kind of pain/distress. Which in turns hurts me and makes my Inner Critic yell "hurry up! these people are hurting because of you!"
I try to reassert myself I'm doing the best I can, and am indeed moving forward, by at times taking a step back as well.
The "two steps forward, one back" does seem to have a net positive result, and I think the really caring friends value it.
Still, it takes an effort on my part to speak about the progress as well as the setbacks.

I would understand if i started this new thing of telling everyone about my stuff- how I'm feeling a LOT but I'm not.
i was just upset that people think I'm fine, and never ask. -Because when they ask me its not appropriate for me to be honest as we are around others. people have their own stuff going on.
and the small times i did say how i was...there is just no response. and I'm not saying *im suicidal and i want to jump of the nearest bridge*

Yeah, strange thing that. Most of the time people just ask "How are you?" to expect to get the answer "Great! How are you?" back, so they can say "Great as well!" back. I must confess that at times when I was doing fine generally, and just had a minor nuisance going on in my life, I would answer "Lousy!" just for the heck of it and see the baffled response on peoples faces. To defuse the confusion I would then quickly state the nuisance and say "Other than that, I feel great."
But obviously, that only works with minor nuisances.

I understand. Its hard. I wonder if we or..i...want or need validation from the outside?
i mean, sometimes, if i actually think that how i feel is stupid.
But i dont feel i need validation from others about how i feel and weather its right or ok or not.
Maybe its more, that i know its valid, but I'm alone. I feel like ive been in one constant flashback for a while..and T thinks its my inner child, thinking *knowone cares about me* and she said its a huge weight for her to carry.
i dont know what it is. Loneliness? a whole the was not met back then in childhood?
a normal human need to be real for a while and to have connection with others? to feel cared about?

Yes, it's the connection we want/need/crave.
In my personal experience it's not so much I want others to understand what I feel/experience, but for them to understand that I feel this/experience this. If they can relate from personal experience, past or present, nice, but that is not really the point.

[Sienna]

Oh Dutch. I undertand so much.
Its easy to feel responsible and guilty. and wrong for others peoples feelings, even if its genuine empathy and compassion.
Do you feel that you will be punished / shamed etc. for others caring- that they dont really mean it and will turn on you any second?
I do. Sometimes things are too good to be true.

Humm. So you also have people who are in the know...but dont understand.
I was wondering if that was good enough. Thats ok i guess, (if your ok with that) as not everyone has to understand you like a manual...)..but when responses t throwing a feeling out there are noting or inconsistant- they cant relate in a healthy way and for me that isn't the best. They are more *a mate* then.

I think that telling them about the one step forward, two steps back thing is a good thing to say.
Those in my life - in fact know one apart from T and X knows i have Cptsd and what the deal is.

I try to reassert myself I'm doing the best I can, and am indeed moving forward, by at times taking a step back as well.
aww. good. thats good. Im sure your inner child needs to hear that. You are doing so well by telling yourself that you know. even if you dont believe it yet- what your saying, and that you are doing well to try.
I know how hard it is.
Apparently recovery is all about taking steps back too. If we didnt, we wouldnt be recovering.

Absolutely. It is hard to talk about progress. Im guessing you know why that is...?

Yes yes!!! They do!! I have always said this!!
Most of the time people just ask "How are you?" to expect to get the answer "Great! How are you?" back, so they can say "Great as well!" back.
I think X said to me that it is just me who thinks that - so yet again, I'm different from everyone else and its all in my head.
But there are others around the centre who just tell anyway and moan for hours when someone ask causally how they are.
These supportive others...they seem to really want to know..only one of them is emotionally unavailable- his issue not mine-
(thought it would me my issue if i rambled on)
but i worry that they dont mean it, they are not here, they just feel sorry fro me cos X left or they feel bad for that they should.

Haha, that is hilarious!! Im smiling 
I must confess that at times when I was doing fine generally, and just had a minor nuisance going on in my life, I would answer "Lousy!" just for the heck of it and see the baffled response on peoples faces. T

Even on forum posts, before reading that someone else said to someone, that there is no need to put a positive at the end of a post..or after stating a feeling, i used to do this and still do this in real life. It feels too vulnerable not to.

Dutch, thank you for answering my questions. And I'm sorry if my last post to you was a bit blunt. I just re read it when i said that i want to say that I'm not spreading news.

Yes, it's the connection we want/need/crave.- thanks, I'm guessing it comes from a hole that was never filled in childhood.

I mulled it over as i read and it makes sense.
Even if people dont understand what you are feeling, you want them to know that you dont feel good, and maybe what it is that your experiencing.

Man its hard relating to others. Thanks for being here Dutch. 

[featherfalling]

thank you so much for your reply.
Im so sorry you struggle too with this and I'm sorry your fiends said that to you.
I have heard that too when discussions happen (that i never started) about who's unstable and who's depressed. One guy told me in so happy, the most stable person at this college, i would never be depressed, when i was actually struggling with cptsd- didnt know back then, social anxiety, and was very depressed. I hid in my room and could only come out if i could face others and face putting on an act again. I dont think he even noticed my absence.

You're welcome! Thanks for the sympathy. Ugh, that sounds awful, that guy was really insensitive. I'm sorry you had to experience that, instead of having people there who understood, or at least didn't dictate your emotional experience.

But i also think it comes from- as i read in the article- there being such a separation between your true self- your inner experience- and the side you show to others.
No authentic relating can happen when it is that way.

That makes a lot of sense. Sometimes I feel like there's a wall of glass between me and everyone else. Or that once I go out to start hanging out with people, I automatically hide my unhappy side from myself, deep inside, so that I feel like I'm interacting with them as I am, but it's kinda a shallow interaction.

How interesting about body language.
I have to say, i did cry a lot when i read the articles about it online.
It reflects me so much, and my parents parenting if you want to call it parenting- they made me this way. Everything had to look good on the outside, i was never allowed to show *weakenss or feelings* and i was never allowed to as for help.
i had to grow up way before i was capable of taking care of myself.
Im so angry with them for causing me so much pain.

Yeah, I don't think that qualifies as parenting. Certainly not good parenting. I can definitely sympathise with that, my mum was always calling me too sensitive for showing emotions. I think being angry is appropriate, for that sort of * emotional abuse.

The person who said it was blind...but people whatever blind or not..they say it and it is still an invalidation, weather or not you can see the person!

So much yes!

Thank you so much. Do you mind if i ask where you are with apparent competence? ...how you are getting on? 

Thanks for asking!  I'm doing a bit better with my fiance, he can generally tell how I'm feeling. I've also been trying to be more honest with myself, at least, about how I feel, and really allowing myself to feel it.  Showing how I'm feeling to people besides my fiance is harder, but I have been trying to tell my close-ish friends (they'd be close if I was normal) how I feel if they ask, and since I've picked my friends really carefully (they have problems too, that they're working on, so they get it) they're good about responding well even if I don't show the right emotion.

I'm glad what I said helped! I hope you can find some connections in person, you deserve to feel that in your life!

[Sienna]

Feather falling

Thank you, I'm sorry you had to experience that, instead of having people there who understood, or at least didn't dictate your emotional experience.

That makes a lot of sense. Sometimes I feel like there's a wall of glass between me and everyone else. Or that once I go out to start hanging out with people, I automatically hide my unhappy side from myself, deep inside, so that I feel like I'm interacting with them as I am, but it's kinda a shallow interaction.
Yes- hiding your unhappy side from yourself- i do that too and that is a way to describe it.
Im so sorry. I feel ya. a lot. 
Sometimes it is present a little and I'm miserable that i can't convey it, or that it isn't appropriate, or that others wont understand.
Its scary but its as though i want someone to reach within me and pull me out from inside.

I read that about there being a separation between inner true experience and the outer one your project to the world on one of the websites on google- when i looked up Apparent Competence.

When derealisation is happening - there is a wall of glass and also if I'm depersonalised. But there is always a wall of glass anyway.
And it makes sense that we disassociate from ourselves around others, because, as children, we or maybe a lot of us...had to hide our inner child- our core self from our abusers, so that they couldn't hurt the core us otherwise it would destroy us, and we even had to hide them from ourselves so that the pain wouldnt be so great that we were pretending,
we believed we were wrong and that our parents and what was happening must be right.
I dont know how, but i do know, that to be a certain person in front of abusive others and now anyone in the world...i automatically disassociate from my real self.

Im so sorry to hear that your mum called you too sensitive. That is just so sad. That is emotional abandonment. I agree, it doesnt qualify as parenting and i feel we have a right to be angry.
The little boy that lives where I'm living in the refuge at the moment- his mum shouts at him and makes him sit alone, and asks him - why you crying?? and tells him to *stop crying* and its so sad. It really drilled home to me what happened to me, so i really feel for you.
It definitely is emotional abuse.








Its ok, I'm really interested.
How brave and wonderful that you are trying to be more honest with yourself about how you feel.
It is hard to be honest with the person you are living with.
Perhaps him knowing how you are feeling with out you having to say so, might help a little for you to feel seen?
It might help you to feel more real- that your feelings do exist and that they are real, because someone else can see them. its great that you are working on seeing them yourself too.
Thats great about your friends and about you being more honest about how your feeling. I hope things work out * them- and good for you for choosing them carefully.

I'm glad what I said helped! I hope you can find some connections in person, you deserve to feel that in your life!
Thank you. Same goes to you. You are amazing to be fighting this. 

[Tewaz]

Oh my goodness yes!
I have a very bad tendency to put on a happy face, even when I desperately need to be sad or angry, and if I ever do slip I feel guilty, like I'm a downer. I know it can be exhausting. But the worse is that no one believes you when something is seriously wrong, because hey, you look happy!
I often feel like that pink girl in Guardians of the Galaxy, the one with the collector, with the huge smile and the terrified eyes.
Hang in there!