Out of the Storm

I woke up this morning thinking about the topic of shame.

I was also thinking of what Pete Walker says is core issue which is emotional abandonment.   

I imagine the emotional abandonment causes the shame.

Shame is the rejection of who we are.

It's horrible, isn't it? And having people, however well-intentioned, who don't get it tell you it's not your fault doesn't seem to help. I get that, rationally. Emotionally, it takes a lot longer to break through.

I've only just started talking to my T about shame. I like her approach, which is to box up the shame and send it back to my mom, because it's her shame to start with.

Where do you feel your shame, Rain? Mine feels like it's through my whole body.

Big hugs to you, thank you for leading this immense topic.

Quote from: Rain on November 26, 2014, 03:21:05 PM
Shame is the Rejection of Who We Are.

:yeahthat:

Shame is the rejection of who we are, not what we did. It hits the very core of our being and makes us want to cringe and hide away.

It's one of the things I can barely think about - let alone talk about - so thank you, Rain, for bringing it up and making me face that it's there; deep inside me, and it shouldn't be.

I like Brene Browns thoughts that the antidote to shame is empathy. Empathy has the power to make the feelings of shame disappear.

Thankfully, there is a lot of empathy here on this forum so we can help each other dealing with our feelings of shame - and stop our desire to  shrink and hide away.

:bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

In the Dr. Brown book I'm reading, she said to a few things when you are feeling vulnerable or a sense of shame. Her mantra was, "I am enough," especially when some of us struggle with perfection and never feeling good enough. "I am enough," can take years to understand. It's part of the journey. I think that's why finding gratitude can help us.

She says say out loud, "I feel vulnerable about/because of ______, and I express gratitude for _____." Maybe one for me personally today would be, "I feel vulnerable because of being around family on T-day. I express gratitude for being able to spend time with my sister." It's important to acknowledge our fear or shame, but also finding the positive can help our self-love.

To rid shame we need feel connected to others by sharing our vulnerability. I have been thinking about sitting down with my partner and just sharing a list with him about everything I feel shameful about and see how that changes my feelings. Even just writing it down helps.

I remember when I first started mulling over shame a few years ago I felt really raw, because like you said it was shame is, "I'm bad," as opposed to, "They treated me bad."

Know that you are not bad. Know that you are enough. Know that what happened to you isn't who you are. You chose who you are. You are choosing the path of self-love. There is nothing shameful about that.  :hug:

Also, don't beat yourself up over being positive. Sometimes being in a dark place helps us see the light in a different way, so we can come out of the darkness. Maybe the inner critic needs love?

Hugs back to you, Sandals.   Thanks for posting ...this is a tough topic for anyone of us to post on.   A bit like Dr. Brown, I guess, stepping onto the TED stage.   (I love her talks!)

Here's Brene Brown's website and also an article on who NOT to share your shame story with:

http://brenebrown.com/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/20/brene-brown-shame_n_4282679.html

I downloaded this app on my computer and iphone called Day One. It's a journal that I can do while I'm out or while I'm at home. So if I have a thought I can put it in my phone for later. It's password protected and everything. I can also look at it from anywhere also. If someone broke into it I'm sure they would think I'm crazy  :bigwink:

Thanks for the two web links!   I found the video page ...you know what I will be watching!!   She's a treat!

Is her book as readable as her talks are enjoyable?

Rain, her books are so much more in depth than her talks. I'm so glad I'm reading it. She also talks about common areas of shame for women/men. It has provided me so much insight into my vulnerability and shame, and ways to be more "whole hearted," which she uses to describe people who have high shame tolerance. All her work is based on her research, and not her opinion. She'll talk about how her research helped her to make it relatable and give examples, but I find myself now practicing her techniques. I think her work really helps deal with the inner critic.

I don't journal daily. I do sometimes. Sometimes I do it once a week. I should do it every day, but sometimes I get lazy. Day One gives you daily recommendations  (and reminders I ignore) for what to write about if you're stuck. Like, "What lessons have you learned from your relationships?" Or, "Who was your best childhood friend and why?" It gets you started. Usually when I write I have something to say or get off my chest. If I have an EF or a night terror I will journal about it.

Journaling has many positive benefits. The have shown that people who journal 20 minutes a day for at least three months start to change their thought pattern. It's like free therapy. Pretty much you end up talking yourself into a "ah-ha!" moment, or your language regarding something you journal about over time will change (which may change your perception). I find that to be very true. There are more expensive journals that will track the changes in your language, words, etc, but they are like $150, but a pencil and paper or Word can be just as effective. One Note was I think $10 for my computer and $3-5 for my phone? I just like the program because it's locked and no one knows I use it.

The hardest part is getting started. I'm one of those people who if I buy something then I will use it or I will feel guilty wasting money (maybe the good part of the inner critic? lol). When I read books they usually trigger me to write too. Like yesterday I journaled about things that make me feel vulnerable. I just made a list.

Most trauma therapy is learning self soothing techniques, exposure therapy, and sharing your story. Telling your story to anyone can be traumatizing. Thinking about it can be traumatizing. If you are able to be "here and now" when thinking about triggers, memories, etc, then exposure/telling your story helps you process what happened. Your emotions (reptilian brain/limbic system) don't have words. They are feelings. When you take your feelings and write about them you are running them through your frontal cortex (words, language, etc). When you can turn your emotions into words (your story) you can express yourself to others--connection. Expressing your emotions is healing. It reduces stress, it reduces shame, and it increases your sense of self and confidence. You become self-aware of your experience in a way that is healing. You can watch yourself change over time.

I started journaling in middle school. I burned a ton of my journals when I was in college because I felt they were "negative" and brought up parts of myself I didn't want to remember or acknowledge. I regret it now, but thankfully still have some journals. When I go back and read them I can see how much I've changed and grown. To me, it is my truth. I think after a childhood of lies, manipulation, and deception being able to read the "truth" validates my experience. Even journals I've written more recently.

Hope that helps! Maybe just sit down and write and see how it feels. It can be scary. What's going to come out? Maybe writing about why it's scary or procrastination can help the block. I think as children, we were taught to shut up and not speak the truth. Or that our abusers truth was our reality. Having your own truth and reality can be scary when you've been forced to live in someone else's. Don't question what you write. Just do it. Your story is there and it's waiting to come out.  :bighug: :blahblahblah:

Wow, wow, wow ....what a post, Lovely!!!   Thank you so very much!!!!

This is such a gift you've given me of ideas, information, and what to purchase!!

:hug:

Bheart wrote:

Sometimes it takes me longer then some to 'get it' and it helps me to see a whole picture.  Honestly, I would have never thought I rejected who I am.  But I have found this year that there is so much crap entwined from my childhood, effecting everything about me,  that I have no idea who 'I' really am.   :sadno:

:yeahthat:  I think I am slow to get it also. that is why sometimes I reframe the writings of others to GET it. My ADD for lack of a better word makes it hard for me to concentrate. Rewriting it kind of sets it into MY BRAIN better. To rewrite it I have to really think about it!

Rain wrote: And, the journaling ...I knew it was helpful in our healing Journey, but you have the details why!   I wonder if forum writing is just as helpful.    ;D.

I do think writing and posting on here and out of the fog does help me! I like to write. I think that is the way I express Myself. For some it is ART, music, etc. but for me it is writing! When I was in college I learned to write (writing 101) and I always got good grades in writing. I have such a vast level of experiences to write about!  ;D. I am surprised that there are many of Us can write so well on these boards. I hope that because WE all like to write that it does no scare others away that find it hard to express themselves by writing!

I to wished I had the writings that I wrote in My twenties. I did not journal per se but I did do a lot of bible studies and wrote My feelings on those.Like You I sure wish that I had some of them to read and see where I was then. I have been afraid to write in a journal because of My unpdh...I would be appalled if he read them and then found something to use as ammunition  against me.  :stars:

The spot where I decided to write and start journaling,which has not happened yet, Is some of the posts on the Inner Child. I think It was Kizzie,but not sure of that that wrote about writing with the left hand to get deeper into the wounds of the Inner child. Pammy Sue really liked a journal that her Grand daughter got from Her father! It was a frozen journal that had lights on it.. a little spendy for a few sheets of paper but She has suffered so much that I thought she need something shiney and new. So I splurged and bought it for her. When It comes I am going to let her express herself.

Keep on Keeping on!  ;)

Quote from: Rain on November 26, 2014, 10:24:51 PM

Quote from: keepfighting on November 26, 2014, 04:40:35 PM
I like Brene Browns thoughts that the antidote to shame is empathy. Empathy has the power to make the feelings of shame disappear.

keepfighting, where is this?   In her book, youtube?   I would love to look at it now to get this further sunk into me.   :yes:

In this TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame?#t-1204028

Around the 14 minute mark, she starts explaining about shame - also very interesting to note the gender differences in experiencing shame - and around 18:57 minutes she starts explaining how empathy is the antidote to shame.

I love listening to TED talks when I am feeling low - so many ideas, so many people and all of them trying to help us build a better world. There are a lot of good people out there and it's inspiring to hear them talk.  :udaman:

MOST awesome, keepfighting!!!  Thank you for the link and even where she discusses this.  Wow.

And, a big smile ....your idea is just what I need ...listen to TEDtalks when I need to feel better about the world.

There ARE good people out there, very good, loving people.

Time to sift through, and find them in our lives!    Let go of the hurtful people.

Thanks again, keepfighting!!

:hug:

If I can ask a question...

I've read so much about denying shame, avoiding shame, etc. and how many problems come of it. But I can't seem to understand. I live with my shame daily, it swallows me up in waves. I can't avoid it. Guilt, too, and a feeling of dread at being "in trouble" for reasons I don't understand and can't predict. I would even say it's crippling. There are a lot of ordinary things I am afraid to do because the waves of shame and guilt flatten me. I can't even leave the house most days.

So, I don't feel I'm denying my shame - it's with me at every moment. Distracting myself or avoiding it is not really an option, since it won't let me go anyway. Talking about it is no problem for me, I'll discuss my shame with anyone - after all, it's the dominant part of who I am. (Not that talking about it brings relief in any way.)

So as much as I enjoy Brene Brown's talks, and I do understand what she's saying....I just can't figure out how it would apply to me. John Bradshaw as well, and pretty much anything else I've read about shame. I'm not in denial or avoiding, but it doesn't help me deal with the pain of it.

I feel like I'm missing something that everyone else seems to understand?

Thanks Rain.  :hug:

I'm understanding a bit about not wanting to be seen (though I seem to take this literally and hide myself away!) My shame is so raw, so on the surface it's hard to deal with anyone laying eyes on me! But I have a terrible time trying to put on a facade or to hide my feelings. Everything shows in my face and posture, there's no point in hiding it...

Just wanting to clarify: are you saying that breaking the denial is recognizing that some of this shame should not have belonged to me? I realized not long ago that I have a great deal of "carried" shame, that is, shame that should have belonged to my FOO that was projected on to me. Or rather, into me. Of course, knowing that and feeling the truth of it are worlds apart. 

At this point in time, all this shame feels as if it should be my own. That trying to send it away or give it back to my mother (who is about as shameless as they come) is just trying to remove the blame from myself and not taking responsibility.

Though taking all this "responsibility" has not done a bit of good and just leaves me in panic/freeze mode and unable to help myself or anyone else. Sigh.

Does anyone else's shame seem detached from actual events? For example, if you ask yourself what's causing the feelings of shame, you can't find a reason, or any event that may link back to it? My shame feels free-floating...often like my anxiety does. I suspect this resides in the Inner Child, who didn't have the cognitive ability to figure out what was going on, not the adult self who can figure it out.
...
Well, I was about to close there, but something else springs to mind - maybe it's important.
During the worst of anxiety attacks, I'd try to think of the reason for the fear. All that would come to mind was "I'm afraid of the truth!" I'd feel that when I leaned the "truth" I'd break into a thousand pieces. This was puzzling, as I rarely shy away from the negative qualities in myself, my failures and humiliations.  And what other "truth" would be so terrifying? The feeling did seem to relate to shame. It wasn't until last year that my husband pointed out something that was incredibly obvious to anyone else but never occurred to me...

With my mother, a person is always going to be "in trouble" for something. There is going to be a rage, and it's going to be terrible. You know it's coming, but you don't know why and don't know when. Only when the outburst comes does the victim know what they did. So it's like waiting to find out what you did wrong. Waiting for the "truth". When it happened to me I'd be in despair, and think "if only I hadn't done this or that" that made her so angry. Sometimes the "this or that" was so vague or small that it would be nonsensical, but the guilt and shame overwhelmed anyway.

Okay, what my husband pointed out, after a few months of being around her, was that my mother wasn't actually angry about the thing she raged over. She was already angry, and was looking to take it out on someone. So she'll fix on any random thing to explode about. Hence why something as simple as someone moving a pan or making a sandwich might cause her to erupt with volcanic fury. And all the while I'm crying, thinking, "if only I hadn't moved that pan 2 inches, this wouldn't have happened. Why do I always do the wrong thing?" H said that there was no way to do the right thing, because NMom was just looking for something to rage about. There was no "truth" about what I'd done, it was NMom making up a reason to justify abuse!

Despite allegedly having a high IQ, this common form of human behavior completely escaped me. I probably would have never realized it if H hadn't pointed it out.  Anyway, I do believe this is the basis for my GAD, and probably a part of my shame, too. And if this is the case, it is likely carried around by the Inner Child. I know my adult self should offer her some protection, but I'm not sure how to do that yet. My adult self is feeling pretty fragile at the moment.

Zazu, I'll just add my perspective to Rain's excellent points.

I believe we help the shame to lift when we can return to a state of innocence. This is very connected to your inner child.

All those years of your inner child being blamed and invalidated result in shame because a child's world is filled with innocence and if something is wrong, they blame themselves. And while it's not our fault, all these years that we have not faced what happened, while we've normalized it or been locked in our family system, we have been inadvertently blaming her too. :(  She needs someone to heal her and tell her that what happened was wrong so she can trust in her innocence again.

I'm very early in the stage of doing this and believe this is why I'm having trouble connecting with her. She needs me to listen and I'm a queen of avoidance. But I'm working on it.

I believe this is just a different take on what Rain is saying and just wanted to share in case it helps.

:hug:

Helped me, Sandals.   Thanks!    :hug:

Quote from: zazu on December 03, 2014, 07:14:18 AM
So, I don't feel I'm denying my shame - it's with me at every moment. Distracting myself or avoiding it is not really an option, since it won't let me go anyway. Talking about it is no problem for me, I'll discuss my shame with anyone - after all, it's the dominant part of who I am. (Not that talking about it brings relief in any way.)

This is what makes me believe we're talking at cross purposes here: I do believe that when you say 'shame' might actually be talking about your 'trauma'.

An integral part of shame is that it is a feeling about something you do not want to discuss, ever, not even in t, in fact not even admit it to yourself. It's a feeling that makes you want to hide away, makes you want to cringe and be reduced to a size where it's possible for you to go paragliding under your living room carpet....

In contrast, 'trauma' is the (family) secret that feelings of fear, obligation and guilt (maybe shame as well) have forced you to keep hidden for so long. Usually, after the lid of Pandora's box on the trauma is opened (which can be an incredibly long and painful process before a person is even prepared to spill the first beans. In my case, I was 27 before I could face opening the lid a little...), it can't be shut again and talking about your trauma becomes easier and easier.

Once I started talking about my trauma, I could talk about little else and discussed it with basically anyone. My T explained to me that that was a normal part of the recovery and basically an attempt to find recognition for my trauma. I no longer do that - I hardly ever feel the need to talk about my trauma anymore - though I have no problems answering questions about it if someone's interested to know. (Taken me years to get to that point; that T was in 2001)

My feelings of shame, on the other hand, are still in place. I still remember when after the first three sessions in T my T asked me about my anger outbursts. I wanted to die! What gave me away??? I thought I had hidden my darker side so well in our talks... (she explained to me, that those anger outbursts are a normal part of PTSD with which I was diagnosed at the time and that's how she knew --- I still wanted to die of shame ...).

I hide my feelings of shame, of inadequacy, of not deserving to even exist, by being extra 'perfect', being self sufficient, never asking for help, pretending to be 'fine' at all times. I am afraid to admit them even to myself. It's a feeling that if I ever admit to them, I lose my right to exist, so I run in demented circles to prove to myself and 'the world' that I am perfect enough to have a right to be...

I don't know how to express this properly. I am just thinking that maybe it's more a question of semantics why you "feel like you're missing something that everybody else seems to understand."  ??? I don't think that you're any less competent in understanding the books and/or talks than anybody else, so that's why I thought that maybe you identify a different feeling/thing with the word 'shame'? 

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree entirely here - based on my own experiences in being able to talk about my trauma but not my shame. If so, I do apologize. I do not mean to offend you or preach to you or anything.  :hug:

Rain, Sandals - thanks for your insight. I thought about it and realized that I did blame the child I once was. Blamed her quite harshly, in fact. It brought up some strong feelings of guilt for betraying my own inner child like that, as well as some anger at her still for not having been a better kid, or handling things in a more mature way. But as sandals said, we were innocent - how could any of us even known how to handle these things? We only knew what we were taught back then. So that will need to be worked through. I had never realized these underlying feelings before, so at least it's conscious now.
Thanks for that.  :hug:

I thought also of my cousin, whose situation was far worse than mine (abusive mother and violent psychopath step-father) and the way she handled these things. She became so sweet. A caretaker, even as a child. She developed this sweetness as a defense, I suppose. She wasn't manipulative, but it must have a defense to appease the abusers. But me, I didn't become sweet - I became withdrawn and taciturn, wanted to be left alone to shut out my FOO's constant invasiveness. So, not a pleasant or fun child to be around at family gatherings. Tonight I realized I resented my child-self for not becoming more sweet and agreeable, like cousin did.

When I got older though, I became excessively sweet and eager to please. That may have been even worse for my mental health than being withdrawn and taciturn, actually.

Keepfighting - I can understand how it might seem that way re: shame vs trauma, and you do make good points. But it really is my cringing humiliation, "not good enough" feelings and self-loathing I will talk about, as well as bad behavior that's plain embarrassing. I'll talk about the trauma as well, though, like you, not as much as I used to. It likely had something to do with being raised as a scapegoat - I was supposed to wear my humiliation and worthlessness on my sleeve. It was the only thing that would possibly keep mother's attacks at bay for a while. Don't let NMom catch you having any self-esteem! Naturally, this trait led to some very unpleasant things happening as a teen and young adult - a young woman who is open about her self-loathing and shame is a target for predators.

It was only after suffering some of these nasty things and reaching a breaking point that I began to be more careful about with whom I shared these things, so really, technically, I won't share it with "everybody". But, it is something that's difficult to hide. I really just became more adept at shutting people out.

Thanks a lot for your input, Keepfighting.  :hug:

Zazu - :hug: Me, too, on the blame. Me, too. :(  It's a hard one to accept.

My T has talked to me about the Johari window (http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/07/08/the-johari-window/) lately as these things begin to emerge.

(https://www.cptsd.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpsychcentral.com%2Fblog%2Fimages%2Fdiagram1.png&hash=9d0793cd6f0909ccd7dfb63374dbb01ecd07d6ea)

These understandings are now moving from the bottom right quadrant (unknown) to the top right...potentially the top left, as we talk about them together. This needs to happen for healing to take place.

I think that where I struggle is in acceptance. Accepting that these things happened so that I can restore the blame to those who are responsible. I have fought against this for years (and my entire family system fights against it) so it's not an easy step to take. But often the hardest steps are the most worthwhile.

I would say I was more like your cousin in terms of sweetness. It didn't matter. I remember my NM saying to me even when I was older (I think after parent-teacher interviews) that "Everyone says you're such a nice girl, but you're not nice to ME."  :sadno: :stars:  So please don't blame your unconscious defence system for how it manifested.

It feels to me like you're taking lots of big steps towards healing, zazu, and it's inspirational. :hug: Keep being honest with yourself and together we'll conquer the shame.  :yes:

Zazu - one additional thought. Now that you've done the work to understand the blame, see if you can identify some of those things that you've made up about yourself. That will help you identify your truths and help with healing.

e.g. (Just making up based on your post, not sure if it rings true for you)
Made up: I'm not "sweet" enough or "good" enough to be loved
Truth: I am loveable, just the way I am

It may be harder for you to identify the truths. I'm happy to help you with that, if  you can share the made-up parts. :hug:

@ Sandal... :wave: Hi all!

So, interesting I was studying the Jahari window earlier this week!

The blind side, left lower quadrant, is the one that other see in us that we don't see. Do You think this is the window that predators see that we don't see? The codependency, fix-it syndrom,  and the victimization that has been done to us? The think that makes us a target for child molesters, Narcissists, bullies, etc?

It might be the one who helps Us to heal also IF the T, can see this side, those hurts that we have buried?

Keep on keeping on! ;)  :hug:

Thank you for the information, Sandals, and your help. I'd never heard of the Johari Window before. It makes sense that moving things from the unknown to the known would be helpful. To make these things conscious and come to some sort of acceptance. It is hard, isn't it.  :hug:
Not only the emotional pain that belongs to us, but the toxic shame that shouldn't have.

I thought about this a lot today and there was a lot of pushback from (what I suspect was) my inner critic. Became quite exhausted and fell asleep. Woke up still exhausted. So much of the shame, fear and anxiety are tied together. This constant feeling of "Something bad is going to happen, and I deserve it cos I'm a bad person". That's been the thought pattern underlying my life the last 40 years and I'm sooo tired of it. The idea that it's unfixable, some intrinsic trait of "badness", but it's not, I know in my heart where it came from and that it must be fixable - this can't be what life was meant to be - not when the actual abuser is dancing about, cheerful and worry-free.  I'm carrying the burden instead, and that can't be right! Not for any of us.

I'm going to think about the the made-up beliefs. It may be a little difficult because they might be masquerading as truth at the moment. Thanks again for your help and compassion. :hug:

Badmemories - I believe you are correct about the predators. A good T can also see those qualities, and more. Had an excellent T once who could pull out hidden meanings that I never could have seen until afterward - then it was obvious. But on my own, I was blind to it. I think it requires a high amount of empathy as well as good training.  :yes:

I have to get back to work, but I wanted to check in and see how you are doing, zazu.   A  :hug:  for you.

You DESERVE to be caring to yourself.   We care about you ...care about yourself too.  :yes:

Quote from: Rain on November 26, 2014, 03:21:05 PM
The old "gracious, if my own parents could not even love me, then who can?" 

^ Yes. Yes yes yes. This quote has governed my life and whenever a good romantic partner is straight forward kind and nice to me, I sabotage that so quickly in a backlash, as surely I have to continue to live under the "unloveable" label!!!

Thank you bheart for the article. Here is a quote from it that struck me:

Depression is so inherent in childhood trauma it's as natural to us as breathing.
What comes to mind for me is the feeling of being "unlovable," and that is the seed of shame. The feelings of the parent, whether expressly communicated or intuited by the child, become internalized and automatic. And the state of being alone and powerless is so pervasive we don't even know how they shape our lives — even our treatment.

I remember feeling horrified by people who would want to hear "your most embarrassing moment" stories. The first time I heard that all I could think was that there was no way to rank my embarrassing moments as 'most' or 'least'. Almost all my memories have a large degree of shame attached.

yay guys keep this beautiful thread going!!!

Just popping back in here to recommend "Healing the Shame that Binds You" by John Bradshaw. Super book to discuss shame (TW - a few examples really caused some powerful flashbacks) and also good exercises to heal.

Quote from: Whobuddy on March 26, 2015, 10:52:52 PM
I remember feeling horrified by people who would want to hear "your most embarrassing moment" stories. The first time I heard that all I could think was that there was no way to rank my embarrassing moments as 'most' or 'least'. Almost all my memories have a large degree of shame attached.

Wow. Going back through this thread because the first pass through was too much to digest - so much in here speaks so strongly to me. 

zazu, I hope you're doing OK. 

I realised something was unbelievably wrong with my life when I would routinely get hit with floating shame and crippling guilt, and the intensity and frequency increased dramatically when I was at peace or happy.  Crossing a certain bridge on foot was guaranteed to bring strong feelings of serenity, gratitude, happiness...and self loathing, hatred, sickness, floating guilt and shame.  Couldn't tell you why, the bridge was new in my life and not tied to any trauma.  I can just so relate to your "innate badness" idea, the shame that isn't fixed on any one thing. 

And to Whobuddy's point, all of my memories have shame, guilt, a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, that unpleasant feeling that you're about to get in trouble.  Every single memory I have (which aren't that many) before I was 16 feel like that. 

In a way I think the free-floating shame is an emotional flashback; I know that for me, the same coping techniques helped me get through the episodes better, and maybe in turn that helped me heal some, enough to gain some different perspective on the shame itself.  I'm not sure how exactly it all works together, or why, but I do know my attacks are much less frequent these days.  So for whatever that's worth, it can get better.  Hang in there.  :bighug:

hellooo

I chose to read this thread after feeling intense shame two days ago.
I found it incredibly insightful. You are all very intelligent beings.
The bit about how your always waiting to find out what you did wrong- totally relate to that.

And about how you feel very when you first start mulling shame over.
I had no idea why at the time- i not long ago read a book called When you and your mother cant be friends, and in it it talked about the Cypher child, the name they gave to the child who was quiet and who gave up on expecting love from their parents, and after reading it, for a while, i felt ...ashaimed...weird...not good enough (as usual) but i was more aware of these feelings and i felt like everyone could see it, a feeling i have often.
So i guess it is normal when dealing into *shame*, you do feel raw. The book triggered me and I had no words to describe it.

alovelycreature, i always think that if someone broke into my phone or laptop, they'd think i was crazy and really weird. All my personal stuff is on there- realisations written in note pad.

Reading all this also explains why last year, the shame i didnt feel as much, because i was very much numb to everything. Im still numb, but the shame is back a lot. Sometimes i have to get the guts up to leave the house, or go to the shop, i feel afraid to talking to neighbours so i listen at the front door to see if anyone is outside. I feel like everyone can see who shaimful and worthless I am. Other times, i feel i cover it well.  Not sure why its more prominent sometimes and not others but always feel it.

I'm not sure if Zazu will come back to check this thread, but in the interest of contributing for other readers, I had some thoughts on things that struck me while reading.

"I'm afraid of the truth." (I'll write as if I were speaking to zazu)

Through the things you wrote, I can see that you were having a very difficult time processing your anger at your Inner Kid. Anger with yourself. There was so much personal responsibility in your words (which I am very familiar with). When we are taught by our abusers that our abuse is our fault, we naturally learn to take responsibility for everything...which I think just feeds the shame. EVERYTHING is our fault. The abuse. Our disordered ways of existing because of the abuse (depression, anxiety, relationship issues, addictions), other people's feelings, other people treating us like crap as we grow into adulthood and find ourselves in dysfunctional relationships...everything feeds the shame. I think that emotional abandonment is definitely a facet of the beginning of the shame, but I feel it's too overly simplistic to state that it's the core.

There are actually two components to emotional abandonment, I think. One is passive, and that's emotional neglect. The other is active, and that's emotional, physical, sexual abuse. Dr. Jonice Webb talks about the differences between emotional neglect, and active abuse. EN can exist without active abuse, active abuse cannot exist without EN.

In either situation, for most children, our only option for processing what's going on is to take it on ourselves. It's our fault. It's not within our understanding to recognize that there is something wrong with our parents, and so there must be something wrong with us. But, when you pair EN with active abuse, when you are actually taught that you are the cause of all the pain in the world (your world - your parents) there's an additional layer of reinforcement of "you are a bad person" "you don't belong" "you don't deserve to exist".

For YEARS I took it all on myself. I downplayed the difficulty of my childhood, I made excuses for my mother, I took responsibility for every single mistake I ever made even though the great majority of them were directly related to my poor coping skills out in the real world.

The "Truth" that can be terrifying, absolutely terrifying...if not intellectually but to your inner kid...is that it wasn't their fault. That all along, there was something wrong with the parents. It's the truth that we were not able to process then. And once we start processing it now, it becomes terrifying because...taking responsiblity for all of that shame is what we DO. Like soldiers, that's just the burden that we were taught to carry. Letting it go, recognizing that it's not ours - well, that leaves us raw, and vulnerable, and "Wow...you mean, it wasn't me this whole time? It was YOU?"

There's a whole host of implications that comes with recognizing where the blame lies. "How could this have happened? How could no one see? How you this human being who was supposed to love and protect me, do this to me? If it's not me, if I'm not broken, then what does that mean? How do I fix this?" It goes on and on and all of those questions are new and scary and way harder to sit with than our old standby of "It's me, I'm just worthless." It might be a hurtful standby, but it's a comfortable one. Much more comfortable than this entirely new paradigm.

I'd long since accepted that I was just a * that wouldn't amount to much. Accepting the truth was hard hard hard.