Out of the Storm

Hello

I would like to ask if people could share their experience of social anxiety and what they have done / do to help -
It's driving me a bit nuts - especially if someone is talkative or lacks boundaries or is dominant type of personality - I just freeze
I feel like a small child again

After writing this I realise that maybe it's because of my mother as she lacked boundaries and was dominant -

How do I work to hold my own re social anxiety / people who seem to dominant and I feel threatened and violated  ???

This thread may address similar issues, in due time.
http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2552.msg16021#msg16021

I think the two are related, no?

At the moment I have nothing to say about 'social anxiety', other than that I do experience that myself too.

Hi Boatsetsailrose

QuoteHow do I work to hold my own re social anxiety / people who seem to dominant and I feel threatened and violated  ???

Unfortunately, I am in the same boat (no pun intended) with you on this one.  I also would like to know how to hold my own and not be triggered by these individuals. Anyone else that has any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I had a dominant, controlling f and my m was as well just to a lessor degree.  She would pick up many times where the f left off. Whether at work or among friends, there always seem to be that one dominant person that has no tact, not empathy, and seems condescending, does not treat you with respect or as an equal.  I am having a very difficult time at work right now as a result of a few of these dominant personalities.  I am working to learn how to hold my reaction and defensiveness that is triggered by these individuals in meetings or one on one conversations.  Sometimes I am successful at biting my tongue and not giving them the satisfaction of a reaction. I have anxiety and panic attacks every day as a result of not being able to hold my own and to stay grounded, shrug it off.  When I am in a panic attack or the stress level is high, this is when it is the worse.  I am triggered and become a small child as I react to the dominant person.  People do not understand the reaction because they have no idea what is behind the reaction.  It ends up getting me in trouble, judged and to make it worse it is usually all guys in the room and I am the only girl.  So, of course, since they think all women are crazy, I am just another crazy woman.

I have read the thread that DU gave us.  While I have that issue as well, I do not think it is the same as what you are asking here.  This is not about giving and receiving / taking, this is more related to how we are treated by others and how that can intimidate us, trigger us, and put us in a defensive state, correct?  Am I on the same page or have I misunderstood?  I am working to re-parent and learn how to regulate my emotions, at least minimize the anxiety and not to respond the same as I would have as a child.  I really have not made much progress so far but hopefully with the help of CBT and DBT therapies, I will overcome this in the near future.  I will share anything I learn along the way with you and please let us know if you find any good ways to manage it as well.  The anxiety is the most nerve racking and debilitating issue I have ever experienced.  The medication does not help it, it is continuous, and it exhausts me. I really think I would rather have some other type of physical illness to fight through and recover from than what I have been dealing with for over a year now....

Best Wishes and Take Care,
MaryAnn   :hug:

Thanks Dutch uncle -
I not sure how it's meant 'the post is connected ?
Do u mean asking for help with the dominant person ?
Kind regards :)

Quote from: Boatsetsailrose on September 26, 2015, 08:34:18 AM
Do u mean asking for help with the dominant person ?

Quite possibly.
I'm not sure.
But I think the underlying issue/process is resisting interaction, and I think in both cases recovering from co-dependency is the key.

I could be totally wrong though  ;) . I'm pretty clueless as far as co-dependency is concerned. As in: how not to act/behave co-dependently.


But I think MaryAnn is right: they are not the same, so I'll be keeping an eye on both threads. These are important steps/issues for me to try and tackle them in the next months. Or so.

Codependency according to coda ( anonymous 12 step programme ) is

Compliance issues
Control issues
With an underlying low self esteem

It's a very interesting area and I feel glad to be addressing be it more as I feel stronger -

Quote from: Boatsetsailrose on September 25, 2015, 09:30:56 PM
It's driving me a bit nuts - especially if someone is talkative or lacks boundaries or is dominant type of personality - I just freeze

I missed the bolded part the first time around (or perhaps I just now get triggered, in a positive way  ;) ), but one of the best things I heard with the SCID-II team was, in my very first meeting: "Dutch Uncle, some people just trample on your boundaries no matter what".
So it might not be you 'all the time', quite possibly it is just them being a jerk/bimbo.

Just sayin'.
And I guess that since you now notice this, your reaction to it, is step one.  :sunny:
I think there is no reason why you should not take your comfort with people who are not dominant. At least for a while.

I walked out on a friend of a friend who was bullying me. Scary as *, but as soon as I had left I felt so empowered. I don't have to take that crap! I bet I'll do it more in the rest of my life. (Not too often, I hope  ;D )

Hi Mary Ann
Yes you are right on point ..:)
Sorry to hear u having a rough time at work - yes I relate ! Work is a challenge for us ..
I'm just learning about the 4f in Pete walkers book - wowa am def a freeze type -
And yes like u say going into the child - I feel helpless and with little control - dominated ...
As I was reading your post I got to thinking about the type that hook into u s .. The narcissistic types / ego types / lack of self
And then I thought about me the empath / good listener / people pleaser / less needy -
As Dutch uncle says its not always about me - they are what they are --
I agree re cbt / dbt def such a good way to help move forward - behaviour training - with internal values and worth
It's like I need to focus on me and not them
I give people way to much power I think - and they know it !
Quote 'the anxiety is the most nerve racking '
Yes ! I feel it most of the time - spending time alone is better but even then I find I'm in hyper vigilance mode ...
I wonder what Pete walker says about this fear state ?
Tonight I was doing some meditating ( my saving grace ) and I saw my mother looming - that's how I feel in my everyday life - like she is still there waiting to pounce -
Emotionally I feel like a electrical wire without any covering just exposed wire
I've felt this all my life but medicated with drink / drugs / food / co dependence /
So to be in this place and be feeling it raw ( except for anti depressant ( which I don't think does much either ) is a good place to be finally facing my biggest fear and exploring how to grow through it -
An unlearning - rewinding history - being more present for myself
As Dutch u says maybe it is about moving away and not finding comfort in other people - I just want to be me these days - I'm tired of fighting / proving myself / pushing myself
Accepting me in all my fear and saying 'hey it's ok - you feel scared but I am here for you

QuoteI give people way to much power I think - and they know it !

Exactly!  Well said, Boatsetsailrose.  I do the same and my counselor called me out on it this week. He told me very directly about how I should handle my work situation and to protect myself from the narcissists in my life. He made it very clear that I am not good at setting boundaries and let narcissists take advantage of my inability to say no or to confront them.  I will say that I did make more of an effort at work dealing with this whole mess and did stand up to the narcissism and let met them know I was a good manager and had a self sufficient team that was not micromanaged. It is called servant leadership which they just looked at me with a blank face.  Told them that I work for my people, that is wasn't the other way around.

Dutch Uncle is wise.  It is not always about us.  And while I am struggling to accomplish it, learning to love myself and to find comfort being me is what is needed to work through everything else. We should not feel that we have to push ourselves to make others happy, or prove ourselves or our worth to others.  I am not a fighter but am tired from the constant feelings of worthlessness, guilt, and shame.

QuoteI wonder what Pete walker says about this fear state ?

I am not sure and do not remember.  I will reread parts of the book and if I find anything, I will send it your way.

Thank you so much for sharing, our beliefs and emotions seem much the same in so many ways.  I am glad you are here and appreciate you perspective and thoughts.  It really helps to be with others that are able to relate, it allows myself at least to feel normal.  We will work through this and be stronger as a result, able to take care of ourselves first. 

Take Care and Lol,
MaryAnn  :bighug:

If you're raised in an unsafe environment that's how you'll be wired and every social encounter/relationship will reference that original brain/mind/body connection.

Raised in isolation - prefer isolation. Can't get close. Don't like to be touched. Need my space. Run from crowds.

Hi Mary Ann
I am very appreciative too - this internal world is like walking up hill with a strong wind ...
Quote '
I am tired of from worthlessness,guilt and shame '

Indeed it's actually boring me now - it's not real but makes out it is -
My t said to compile affirmations for myself
I say 'I am competent , capable and good enough -
The good enough one I say a lot and it dissolves the shame -
Guilt is such a silly emotion unless one has committed harm or a crime -
It motivates for change but in our situation the change is inward and not out ward
And re worthless if I was actually worthless God would have made me insignificant and if I look at my life I am far from being insignificant - so - hum cptsd
Looking at what I do well in any given day helps - or my mind just focuses on the negative / perfection stuff

Yes miss bliss indeed ! And then we start learning how to be different -
My sponsor says action first - feelings later -
For me remembering I am in the here and now and practicing mindfulness and compassion help me

Hi Boats - Just wanted to pop in and share this link to some social anxiety resources at a forum I used to belong to - http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/ (see links along top of page).   There's a questionnaire you can take to see where you're currently at in terms of SA here - http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/disorder/liebowitz/.   

Also, I completed an online course for social anxiety based on Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and found it was helpful in staying in the present rather than being triggered into any of the trauma responses Walker talks about. I'm not encouraging you or anyone to sign up, but here's the link if you want to take a peek. https://www.learntolive.com/.  There are lots of free CBT resources out there so no need to spend any $$, I just took the course because there was a special offer so it was quite cheap.

QuoteFor me remembering I am in the here and now and practicing mindfulness and compassion help me

Exactly  :thumbup: 

I've allowed myself to be a little mean and ignore people. I don't put in the effort to resolve anything and I just cut them off or ignore the situation. I know my limits.  I accept that I may have these limits for a long time and I've figured out how to live happily. I have one friend and since I work with people I have enough people around. I notice that anxiety only happens when they aren't there so I structure my life so that if I have to be around people it's scheduled and there's no way out of it otherwise anxiety would keep me home.

If I decide the person is abusive I ask myself if it's reality and not my imagination and also the degree of it and decide how many total humans I need around anyway. I can drop the difficult ones. I don't offer an explanation to anyone because it makes me too stressed out to try.

Hey...

I've replied to another thread but thought it might be helpful.
Cbt is great for social anxiety. If u can shrink the inner critic with the pete walker stuff then you'll be almost a quarter of the way through already with ur social anxiety recovery. Social anxiety can be reduced significantly if you give it 100% effort

http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=634.0

Best of luck!

I think I get better when I do more.   Or at least, I get used to going throught the motions. 

I've struggled with social anxiety for as long as I can remember. Now I know the existence of CPTSD I can see that it is probably a by-product of that, so I try not to be too hard on myself about it nowadays. Unfortunately I had the added problem growing up of only really having one close school friend who was very controlling. Now when I look back on what happened to me I see that she latched on to me as someone weak who she could control as I had already been weakened by my father. Unfortunately as a result I was trapped thinking I could only have one friend and never learned how to socialise with other people.

It's so hard but I think the mantra "feel the fear and do it anyway" helps. I try to remember that I have distorted thinking so I follow how other people interact to get an idea of what is acceptable socially. I think CPTSD makes it harder for us as if you're feeling really down and insecure it feels impossible to connect to anyone on a fun level. I had this the other night when out for a meal with a friend, I was there physically but mentally I was all over the place. If it's not a close friendship then the other person isn't necessarily going to understand where your head's at, you just come across as aloof.

The danger is thinking that it will magically get easier as you get older, which is what I always believed when I was a teenager. Now I'm much older I can see that relationships need to be nurtured and a real effort has to be made. Helps to know who you are though so you can make healthy boundaries with people and find those with similar interests, as you're all aware with CPTSD this isn't easy!

:hug:

Quote from: blues_cruise on November 16, 2015, 10:29:14 AM
It's so hard but I think the mantra "feel the fear and do it anyway" helps.

That is such a beautiful attitude. Thanks for sharing.  :thumbup:

It reminds me of two quotes:
"I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave (wo)man is not he who does not feel afraid, but (s)he who conquers that fear."
- Nelson Mandela

and

"If we take the generally accepted definition of bravery as a quality which knows no fear, I have never seen a brave (wo)man. All (wo)men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened."
- George S. Patton
(updated for gender-equality  ;) )

We are not alone.  ;D

Quote from: Dutch Uncle on November 16, 2015, 10:54:09 AM

Quote from: blues_cruise on November 16, 2015, 10:29:14 AM
It's so hard but I think the mantra "feel the fear and do it anyway" helps.

That is such a beautiful attitude. Thanks for sharing.  :thumbup:

It reminds me of two quotes:
"I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave (wo)man is not he who does not feel afraid, but (s)he who conquers that fear."
- Nelson Mandela

and

"If we take the generally accepted definition of bravery as a quality which knows no fear, I have never seen a brave (wo)man. All (wo)men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened."
- George S. Patton
(updated for gender-equality  ;) )

We are not alone.  ;D

Absolutely! Wonderful quotes there and yay for gender equality.  ;D The more I understand CPTSD the more compassion I feel for those who live with social anxiety, after what we've been through it's no wonder our brains are wired up a bit differently.  :stars: