Messages

Hi Slim,

Totally.
But...

1. Of course Slim deserves unconditional love, and so does every other person. I wouldn't have it any other way. It's your birthright.
2. Not for me, though. After being rejected so many times I've lost count, I'd be pathetic to ask for it. If it's for me, it isn't just too much to ask, it's totally out of the question.

Oops.

Uhm, may I ask, what's unconditional love?
For that matter, what's love? I can give a definition of the word, but it means nothing to me. There's no emotion behind it. Just total emptiness, like scorched land. I can't bring up any emotion, except maybe self hatred.

When people use it, the closest I can come to understanding what they're saying is "Oh, it's that thing that others are worthy of and I'm unworthy of. That's why it means a lot to them and nothing to me." I know what being used feels like, so I can sort of understand being loved is the same as being used, just less violently and with a win-win agenda. Mutually using each other? I bet that's not love, but it's the best I can do.

Not trying to be funny, really clueless. I'd love (no pun intended) some pointers. What does it feel like to you to be loved?

sanmagic7,

Duh! Thanks so much. It never would have occurred to me I might be getting better. I guess self hatred has been lying about that too... how sneaky. Bad self hatred, bad!

woodsgnome,

I started to understand, when I read your words, how my feelings (and maybe yours too, in the beginning?) are extreme. Either feeling nothing/ too little, or exploding into a full blown loop of endless flashbacks. Till I started reading about it I used to call them "my waves of shame". The tiniest thing would throw me into a new wave and down I went into my rabbit hole of misery for hours, sometimes months. Then I'd fall back to the other extreme of no feelings at all. Nothing in between.

Thank you both... being able to talk about this is still really new to me. I was totally in the dark till recently. Now I'm maybe peeking out just the tip of my nose, and the tips of my ears and a couple of hairs? And a toe or two. The rest is still in the dark I guess. I really appreciate that you don't just tell me off for not turning on the light and getting over it.

Hi Blues_Cruise,

I can relate, I was in a similar situation not long ago with my father.

For a long time I couldn't believe it had come to this, that I actually was considering something this extreme. Even though my family had taken his side and threw me out years ago still I held on to the last thread of supposed normalcy. I wanted to believe it wasn't true. No matter how many times I was discarded I kept trying to "get along". I felt so guilty for thinking of cutting ties with him. But gradually it dawned on me that the only thing worse than cutting ties with him would be to be in touch with him. So I decided to take the less harmful route, though it hurts like *.

There's a wild smear campaign going on against me. He relishes in it and makes sure it reaches me through others in the worst ways possible, while maintaining he's the victim and I'm the abuser. The fact that he trashes his own child so sadistically is a clear indication why this wasn't a choice for me but a necessity, so I've kind of accepted that they won't change, so I have to change.

I have times when it's more bearable and time when it feels dreamlike and unbearable. But I also know for a fact I couldn't change as long as I continued to be poisoned by him in person. I guess it was the worst thing I ever had to do, and also the best thing I ever did all rolled into one.

Absolutely, I can definitely relate too... I've maybe got different parts of me but they're not that well defined.

Then again I didn't even know I have c-ptsd till a month ago. I had no therapy. I don't find it easy to trust therapists after being misdiagnosed and mislabeled and re-traumatized as a teen as part of my parents' attempt to silence me (I was the dumb kid who tried to speak up and stop what was going on).

So I obviously don't know myself, so I don't know. I feel a little like I'm waking up from a dream. But I do remember violently "splitting" off from myself a few times in childhood. I didn't know what was happening at the time, so "splitting" was the only word I had for it. On a few bad occasions I remember that I woke up and then the instant I woke up and I remembered what had happened my mind snapped, like there was a very loud thud and I "split". I never told anyone about these splits before. I do have some seriously messed up memories chronologically, years and memories going backwards and forwards in ways that make no sense, contradictory memories.

Hope this isn't as confusing as it feels as I'm writing it now.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
And thanks for keeping them so safe and cautious, with such clear boundaries.
Amazingly good work, and so so so meaningful to me. I have no doubt it is to others too.

I have a very very ill body, it's very far gone. I was born with a genetic predisposition for some bone/joint problems but then it was all accelerated. The constant abuse caused it to come to life really young and really hard. My genetics probably had nothing to do with trauma but pressuring my body till it collapsed did.

I used to feel puzzled and wonder about all this heap of unrelated hardships but now I see that the trauma was the trigger for everything else. It's sad but clear.

So I think, from experience, that trauma can definitely worsen preexisting health problems and cause new ones. In general it's also known to weaken your immune system, to potentially dump stress hormones into your blood stream indefinitely, to change the pathways of the brain.

So yeah... sigh.

Hi Alarrah,

I confided in a friend once when I was a teenager, told her some of the stuff going on at home (I'd get to school in the morning, sit down with her in an empty classroom and tell her what happened the evening before) and she told the school councilor, who didn't get it. Neither did the social workers my parents and I were sent to, they all believed my parents of course. They were rich, educated, intimidating, powerful. I was a scrawny weird teenager who glared at the ceiling and was too cautious to say a word, so my parents were off the hook. No help, no one stopped them. Many times my parents tried to commit me and convince social workers/psychiatrists that I was crazy, and no one there was on my side either. My father was just too powerful, too good an actor.

I suffered abuse throughout childhood and as an adult, it continued. With my father even though we're estranged, he finds ways to attack me through others. He's successfully convinced my whole family that I'm crazy. I'm on my own. As a result, no one knows the truth. Everybody believes the lies. I'm the only one who knows, everyone else sides with the abusers. It's been going on for 4 decades in my case.

I guess most people are too apathetic to see the lies, and sometimes they're too scared to take a stand. Either way, they cooperate with the abusers. You're left on your own.

It can be really hard to know who you are, and what the truth is, when no one else knows it. I'm sorry you had to know what that feels like. It can be crazy making... it's such a dissonance. I hope these forums help. I know they help me.

A journal is what I was thinking too when I read your post. I might start one too. When I was younger I never had one because if anyone was trusting enough to write down personal information my father would search for it, find it and taunt and attack them with it so I never wrote a journal. But I think maybe I'll try too. I've recently read of something called "narrative exposure therapy" and I think I might try it out on my own, slowly, with the book.

One thing that helps me a bit is seeing how consistent my sense of self and story are. There are recurring themes that pop up in my memories of every age, over and over. It's not just a messy jumble of stories, and I constantly minimize the hardships in my life so I know I'm not trying to be dramatic. The truth sounds coherent. You're telling the truth, even if no one else knows it.

Hi Andyman 73,

Yes, I had a good friend, we were close enough so some of the alters got to know me. Not all, I doubt my friend knew them all or that even the overworked responsible "caretaker" knew everyone, there seemed to be so many. Most didn't come out. The angry ones were less fun for me... I was traumatized myself so the angry ones were hard for me to handle. But the others were sweet, innocent, funny, giggly, sleepy, whimsical, inquisitive... I got presents for some of them, we took care of my friend together. I asked the caretaker for advice and it was like a group effort..?

Can be hard to have a conversation though once they get to know you because different personalities want to talk, and you can end up having group discussions. And in painful moments it's super hard... they can all be gone in a second. Then again that's exactly what I do too.

It taught me how easy it is to seem totally fine on the outside to someone who hasn't experienced trauma, but be in pieces inside. We both walked around and seemed to totally function and ate and talked but we were like a bomb crater inside. 

Sounds like you're a good friend. I'm glad she has you, it takes courage to really see others' vulnerability and stay put. Therapy is natural, it can happen anywhere that's safe and nurturing, doesn't have to be in a therapist's office with a cardboard box of tissues next to your elbow. Sounds to me like you're there for her. That must be an incredibly rare thing in her life.

Feel free to send me a message if I can help and/or just share experiences

Urm... I'm not sure if I should add to this thread, because it may be pretty triggering. Maybe just a few. And they'll maybe be a little ugly.

*Trigger warning*

* You're only alive on a whim, for now I keep you alive but if ever in the middle of the night I decide you should be dead then I'll come in and take care of it. I'll just turn a switch off and you're dead. I decide. You'll never know when.
* You're my extension, you don't exist. I decide what you feel, I program your emotions into you. I turn them on and off, I control you.
* I'm going to sue you for the money I put into your education, you didn't deliver. You're a complete failure, it was expensive, I want my money back. I calculated it, here's the figure: ___
* You'd filthy the air in the room if you come to any family gathering, we don't invite you because your siblings would refuse to stay in the room for one minute if you were there.
* At our last family gathering we discussed the problem, that is, You. It was decided that when you'll come begging in the future it'll need to be done behind people's backs because no one will have anything to do with you, not even that way.
* You waste oxygen that should have gone to normal people. According to nature you're a mistake, you should have died long ago.

Not sure what to add to such magnificence of sadism and wit except *Yikes*

Hi ToreyP,

I feel the same. One thing you wrote in particular caught my eye, that you feel uneasy when there are more people, new people, a crowd, all the mess of responding to lots of social cues. Could it also be because you're just really introverted? I'm very introverted and it's taken me years and year to learn I was born this way, it's not a problem to be fixed or overcome. It just means I get tired in noisy environments but get energized when I do solitary activities. When I'm especially scared or triggered then it feels like full blown social anxiety, but even when I'm not, small talk and parties are my ultimate idea of *. It doesn't make me anti social, just quiet. When I meet people whose pace is more like mine, I do tend to feel much more comfortable.

Besides, Australia is noisy. The language may be similar but the culture is really different.

There are advantages to being quiet. If you happen to be in the mood for a serious conversation, I'm your best bet. But if I have to push myself to be someone I'm not, to joke around with a bunch of strangers, then I'll shut down, sit in a corner and wait for it to be over and feel like a freak. I prefer quieter settings. Besides, group joyfulness and giggling are unbearable for me, I just don't do shiny-happy. It depresses me half to death.

I also feel anxious in crowds... it can be nerve wrecking. I've come to slowly pick and choose the people who can become closer, quieter friends.

Well, I'm tempted to write "anything" but maybe that's taking it a bit far. So apart from absolutely everything:

Indifference
Being ignored
Nighttime
Waking up
Certain people: abusers and those who do their bidding
Sudden or unexpected movements
People moving around behind my back
Throwing up, choking
Thinking someone is tired of me
People looking bored
having to ask for help
Thinking I failed
People towering above me
Well-wishers
Happy people being silly
Loud noises
Repetitive noises
Birthdays, holidays
Families
Compliments
People saying loving nicknames to their parents, siblings
Kindness shown to people
Loving parents
Feeling my privacy was invaded
People

Thanks so much! I'll try. I too have read of grounding using the 5 senses and I do try to use it too, it helps. I guess for dealing with past abuse these ideas should help a great deal but maybe with current abuse not much can help.

I can understand this could maybe be hard to imagine, but any of us can lose all of our freedom of choice. It happened to me, what happened was my body suffered so much emotional + physical abuse over so many years that it's broken and disabled now. I'm unable to move away because I can't move.

It's not a choice to stay. It's a pain inflicted on me. My life is often a living *, I didn't choose this * just like no one here chose theirs.

Mine is just... prolonged? Maybe never, ever, ever to end? It makes me feel like a freak, even here among people who suffered what I suffered I feel I can't ever really be one of you. I don't know if this feeling is realistic but it does nag me. I read people's stories and read things in past tense and think "Oh god, what did I do to deserve this endless cycle of abuse?" but that appears to be my lot in life.

But I have my mind. When I manage to calm it down I concentrate and have myself. Sometimes. And in my mind I've totally changed my habits, so I no longer allow any sort of abuse toward me. I set boundaries, which I didn't know how to do before. So some of my past abusers have gotten the message and changed, they respect my boundaries or else... but I still find them really triggering. It's still really unenjoyable.

But it doesn't work with all, not with the ones I've gone no contact with but they still stalk me. Some have literally promised me they'll keep hunting me down for life. I... I can't speak "crazy" so I can't grasp what runs around inside these psychopaths' skulls. I just sigh and feel like a total freak. They're the freaks, and I feel like one. Yikes!!!

So usually, I'm emotionally numb. I don't know why I have to continue to suffer endlessly. I guess it's a meaningless question...

Sorry if I seem mostly numb... I guess I am.

These forums are the one place where I can be me, PHEW...

This is a hard topic for me, I've been misdiagnosed as BPD in youth by my abusive family who made sure it was spread around in the family and among my colleagues later in life. So I was and am treated as the crazy lying manipulative black sheep ever since. It's been 3 decades now.

No one ever believed it was an abusive lie. Everyone was and is convinced I'm a total fruitcake. If I ever was trusting or dumb enough to try to talk to any person in my life about hurt, they instantly put on their disgusted "Oh Lord here we go again" face. My family have all disowned me. Since it's a personality disorder it's incurable, right? So I was discarded. I've occasionally tried in every possible way and never been able to convince anyone that this has all been an abusive lie because, of course, people with BPD are the manipulative liars! How clever...

(I just re-read this and wanted to edit and add: I'm of course not saying people with BPD are liars at all, but just that this was how I was portrayed to be)

I've long since given up.

I guess I can understand the therapists who misdiagnosed me. They didn't know any better. But they happily cooperated with my abusers. I distinctly remember one of the times they tried to commit me and declare me nuts (I was too young to run away at the time) and the social worker at the place asked if I agreed to a family session, I said "no, my family is abusive, you don't have my permission to invite them" and next thing I knew, I was called to her office to discover we were all there having a good old family talk. The betrayal by the therapists was... ugh.

That being said: really, from my experience as someone who's been completely destroyed personally by a mistaken diagnosis of BPD, there's just no comparison between trauma and BPD as I understood it. The main difference I can see is that as a traumatized person I don't use words or people. Not that there's a single person in the world who knows it but me, but I know it.

This can be an incredibly dangerous misdiagnosis to make, in the hands of abusers and unsuspecting cooperators.

Just my two cents... from lousy personal experience of a lifetime.

Hi,

Urm, so... has anyone else here felt much, much, much worse once you started seriously reading about c-ptsd?

At first it was a huge relief to know what's going on inside my head and why I've been so tortured. But now it's like I just have more and more flashbacks.

To be honest part of it is because I have to live with one of my past abusers. So I have no place to truly be completely safe. But... I've lived with them till now and it hasn't been quite this bad.

Just wondering if you did anything that helped. If it's a temporary thing, awareness feeling awful but then getting better (please say yes!!!), I feel like I'm drowning in emotional pain. It takes me forever to calm my body and mind down from one long loop of flashbacks, then another begins the second I look away and dare to do something else. It's exhausting.

I don't think I can afford therapy so that's not a realistic option right now.

Thanks