dollyvee's recovery journal

[NarcKiddo]

Money. I know they say "money makes the world go round" and for some people it MOST CERTAINLY does. Everything you have posted resonates with me, and funnily enough money was quite a large part of the discussion I had with my T yesterday. Everything is transactional. And I also understand the fear that someone may take it away.

It's a huge, difficult and horrid topic.

 

[dollyvee]

Thanks NK - I've spoken with t a few months back and I think, along with the Toxic Shame book, that growing up in an NPD household means you are objectified and therefore relationships become transactional, which I think already exists in relationships to some extent. There's definitely superficial parts that appreciates how someone looks for example, but everyone has these? I guess for me, it becomes a sticking point because of how I was treated growing up (where emphasis was literally placed on how I looked at a young age and what my flaws were etc) and I think part of me wants some altruistic (superhuman?) person who doesn't want things like that from me. But I guess the reality is is that that person probably doesn't exist. I'm still trying to work my way around it. Same perhaps with money.

Hmmm reflecting on this, I know I have written that I've forgone relationships because of work (ie money I guess). Maybe that's how it comes into play? It's either survival (money) or a relationship? I guess earning money and being on my own means that I don't have to be at the mercy (or control) of someone else. My gm said she wanted this for me. I can understand why I might feel that way as well given how the relationships with men and women went in the family. As soon as my m had the money from my gf, my sf started acting as if she would leave him and made her change the title to the house to include them both. There was also financial stuff between my gm and gf.

I was speaking to someone the other day who mentioned that their child was helping his partner with the parent's house after the parent passed away. I said, with some cynicism, that it's always difficult when there's money involved, or something along those lines. They said nope, no money, it's all very amicable, and I'm like what? Do people actually go through things reasonably like that? Again, it reminded me of how difficult it is to have to not explain what your family  is like, or to tell them what's going on and have it be so far out of peoples' experiences that you feel you just have to keep it inside.

I guess on the plus side, I've read something in the NARM book which has sort of started me reframing my belief about myself. When I feel like I'm standing up for myself against people who are being unfair, childish, sexist, don't like me etc, when I don't want to take on peoples' snakey/underhanded behaviour (I can see how this relates to my sf, and probably family in general), I think I feel like I'm somehow being difficult. Like I'm being difficult for standing up to other things people can't "see," or that they want to say it's about me. Whether or not that's the case, I can see how I was also the "difficult" one growing up for pointing these things out in my family, for standing up against my sf's treatment of me. I was doing what I needed to do to protect myself in an abusive household (though why is it hard to call it that?) and I wasn't difficult, but every time I try to do these things, that's the image of myself that comes up. Why do I feel I need to "stand up?" I don't know, I guess it's a familiar form of protection. Others might find a way to avoid these people etc, but sometimes I feel like I just "find" myself in these situations.

[dollyvee]

I guess I feel like it's hard to let someone in who might want to control things because I've had to do it on my own for so long, and if that person leaves, I'd be left having to survive and might not be in a position to do that. This reminds me of my gm, or perhaps a belief of hers that she had. Tho I don't know how much of it, if she was on her own after the divorce, was wanting to be taken care of and not wanting to go out and do things on her own.

In the psychologists reports, he tried to motivate her about reaching out to clients, or feeling like she could reach out to clients, doing the necessary leg work I guess. I think she kept feeling like she was lacking, or not good enough (?), and it was hard for her to do that. She didn't receive any support either I think from my gf, who could be very critical and I'm sure put what she was doing down. If it wasn't known to him, it was probably useless or stupid, or you'd be a fool to believe that. Or he wanted things in his life a certain way, and this was interfering with that. I can't remember his words exactly, but probably something along those lines. I think she preferred being in a relationship where she was taken care of, I guess that safety.

Perhaps I'm processing things and feelings empathetic here, seeing some of myself in my gm, or what I'm taking from their relationship and what my own struggles are. Then I remembered her saying (judging)  that my sgf wasn't that bright, or about what he did for work or something like that, and it cracks a bit. I think it makes me understand my own trigger point, which I've been realizing over the past few weeks, about being lied to. Like wait a minute, I've been honest and believing (with an open heart here), acting with empathy to your situation, and someone has taken advantage of that. Someone gave me the impression that they were going to nurture me (I guess by my own internal guidelines of what that looks like and not being entirely "open"), and I was empathetic towards what they said they were going through, but I don't think that was returned/shared and that equals rage. Maybe most of the time though, it doesn't get to that point because I think I'll shut down and not trust someone, but when I do, it's opening this relationship dynamic.

It's interesting because I was thinking this week that I just feel like I"m being a nice person, and trying to act with an open heart, why does this happen? Writing this out, I can see that being the nice person is what I had to do in my family (because I felt I had to take care of my gm who was going through those things with my gf? But she kept going back to him), and I kept getting lied to/mainpulated/treated like garbage and trying to work things out. I guess it's hard for me to not take that and project it onto other people that I want to care about. It's just easier not to trust them from the beginning (because I'm expected to give too much?)

I feel like I'm so close to getting something here, to making a connection (interesting word), but I can't put my finger on it. That I don't have to be a "nice" person? That the world isn't going to fall apart? That connecting to someone doesn't mean there is deception, and maybe what feels/seems like deception, or being lied to isn't really that? This "narrative' is so locked in. I can't really "feel" this though, just think it.

Looking at what I wrote about my gm above, I can also maybe see why working so hard at something is important because I don't want to end up like that, being the mercy of someone who is treating me badly. Maybe I'm still holding onto this family narrative/dynamic by feeling/thinking that as well (and still trying to save her by working so hard to be on my own? Do the things she couldn't/didn't do?)

Realizing that the statement in bold is a process of disconnection and not trusting people means that I'm disconnecting from them when it's the opposite that I want, connection (and to be understood). But I guess there's also times that disconnection is helpful when people aren't being honest, and here's the circle - when are people being honest? Maybe this is increasing my window of tolerance to give people time to show me if they're going to be trustworthy or not, and if not, it's not my fault (or I won't feel shame for trusting them?).

I'm also recognizing how much of my stuff is a projection onto someone ie that he wants a young gym bunny (gm belief that men will leave you for someone younger); that he's not a relationship guy (that men will leave you); and that I can't trust him (gm saying you can't trust men). The dream I had where she was standing in line, saying that she will buy me an apple juice and never doing that (taking my harmony, pleasure, fertility, sexual awareness etc as per the meaning of apples in the dream dictionary), sort of helps me see that I'm still carrying these beliefs for her and it's getting in the way of my harmony, pleasure etc in relationships. The other part of the dream is where she and I were out on the road, and I was worried/thinking people were not going to think I was a nice person. I see too, how I've been "groomed" from a young age to be like that - be nice and take on peoples' stuff, to not abandon her and help her through her difficulty. The difficult part is that those are nice (that word again)/aspirational things to be in life. I guess it's the feeling like if you're not those things (human basically), then you're somehow flawed. Like I don't get to make mistakes?

I think this is all a bit all over the place. I'm sort of thinking out loud here with some things that are going on. 

[dollyvee]

So, NARM session this week was...interesting. It always feels like let's dig to the core of the issue and show you your two sides if you can understand and integrate them?

Wee talked about connection and how the feeling of stepping back and not doing so much allowed me a little space. When I try to feel into that space, or think about connecting, I saw a very protective, kind part, that I guess I trust. Like they are doing the best for me. When I try to get that part to step back a bit to allow me to feel the connection, I got something very familiar, kind of a smirk that was like, "you don't know how the world works," which is something I heard a lot growing up. I'm sort of struck now how much it reminds me of the connection with my gm. Something that seems very soft and loving, but if you try to step back from that, and have some independence, you are losing protection and there is danger. At the end of the session, it made me feel very guarded, like oh let's connect and it will be a big kumbaya. I guess growing up I learned that people connect with you because they want something from you, not because of you, and that's a difficult place to be in.

I also felt a lot of emotion around how difficult it was to love my m and gm so much, and watch them destroy themselves, and feel like there was nothing you could do to help them. I don't know if this was helping them so they could finally love me back and I could be seen because otherwise I guess there's a lot of grief and sadness there that's difficult to bear as well.

I also don't really feel like it's the connection that's the problem, or wanting to connect, but perhaps the age of the part that's wanting those things, and if perhaps, they are in "adult consciousness." I also guess that there's a part that doesn't want adult consciousness because it means letting these things go, or what that young part wants/hopes for. Also difficult that I guess those things are never going to be in the world - that love and acceptance? I don't know  what /whyy exactly?

[dollyvee]

Reflecting on my session with t and I think I see some dynamics happening, which have come up before, but didn't realize/understand how important, or rooted (if that's the right word) they are?

T was explaining where she thought my issues with relationships stem, or why maybe I keep choosing a certain type of person (her words). She's used a traffic light analogy to explain interpreting someone's actions before because I think I can "see what I want to see" at times. (I think this is not understanding what's going on internally perhaps, and wanting to connect in a way that I didn't have growing up, which I guess is me at times, thinking I'm broken). I've sort of come to realize in my last interaction with someone, is that the traffic light is way too far down the process, and it's my interpretation of things before it even gets to that point where I feel like things take a detour (keeping with the traffic metaphor). I've realized that the "chase," or even that initial moment of spark, connection, and potentiality make me shut down, and is where I start interpreting things as dangerous, or trying to read into someone's actions. So, it all progresses into this "game" of are they going to be this person (hurtful etc), and me trying to find evidence of that. Not particularly healthy and not really something I want to do.

But what I noticed in discussing this with t, and what I said to her, was that I don't feel like there's a lot of agency in these "interpretations," and I think it makes me very defensive. What I noticed this morning is that I think it's a familiar pattern of maybe disconnection? I didn't have/wasn't allowed to have an internal world I think growing up, and I'm very protective of mine now, and feel like on some level I will choose that over connection because it's survival. Not listening was said a lot to me growing up, and now, I think it's probably similar at times. If I don't feel like my internal world is respected (thoughts/contributions etc), I think I just tune out. I think this is also probably true for relationships, that I would rather protect my inner world (and freedom) than connect. I find people want to tell me a lot about the things I'm doing in my life and how they're wrong (sounds like my gf), or maybe this is what I stick on, and not the people who don't because then it brings up the feelings around connection?

I will bring this up with t and see what happens. I know in the past I've said that the dynaminc feels like my gm at times where I'd say something and I get defensive because I don't feel like it's heard.
_____________________________

I also watched Baby Reindeer and wow did that stick with my. I think it shows the process of self-hatred that so many people go through, and maybe how and why we do get stuck in these patterns. 

_____________________________

It's also interesting some of the things that have been coming up, and the feelings around relationships which are thinking about all the times I've been treated badly, and how I think I want to suppress that, or maybe how I don't actually feel and recognize that as something that happened growing up. The other was that I feel like I'm just trying to be a nice person and it's never recognized, or what people want. GoSlash's comment was interesting that we try to be the things we didn't have growing up. So, maybe I'm trying to be nice because that's what I didn't have, wanting someone to recognize that, but it's just my own unhealed stuff and not an authentic connection? Or I keep thinking that I'm not a nice person because I'm taking on my family's stuff, or that if I don't try and  save everyone, I'm not nice?

[Hope67]

It's also interesting some of the things that have been coming up, and the feelings around relationships which are thinking about all the times I've been treated badly, and how I think I want to suppress that, or maybe how I don't actually feel and recognize that as something that happened growing up.

Hi Dolly,
I really related to what you wrote here, I think I've done the same thing - tending to suppress stuff when others have treated me badly. I also think you saying you wonder whether you didn't actually feel and recognize that' - that is also so relevant.  You gave me a 'light bulb' moment with what you said.

Anyway, I also wanted to say that I've watched 'Baby Reindeer' as well - there is so much in that programme that is interesting, and I could relate to some of the things there.  Very impactful.  Getting stuck in patterns.  Very relateable.

Sending you a hug Dollyvee, I've not been around so much lately, and didn't get chance to catch up with your journal till now. 

Hope 

[dollyvee]

Thank you Hope - I think it's somethingI do to try suppress what's happened really. I guess that's how I dealt with it because I didn't have anything else. Boundaries? Not allowed. Standing up for myself? Punished and gaslit into thinking it was me. So, the only thing that worked/was allowed was to block it out, or it just doesn't exist.

I think there's a lot of stuff coming up now and this morning I could write about a few different things, but not really sure about the direction. I think that's also familiar. I guess it's just emotion? Though don;t think I could nail down a specific one. Impending Doom brought to the surface? Perhaps as I've been feeling like I've spent a lot of the past week very hypervigilant around people, but also with a sort of clarity?

I spoke with t about feeling defensive about my inner world and I was much more emotional talking about that than I expected to be. I feel/ suspect this is at the heart of a lot of things/connection stuff. The conflict between needing to protect/keep my own inner world safe vs engaging and taking what others say on board. I think it's just the immediate feeling or readiness to take on something if there is an issue, and then, I am "bad." It's such an automatic process.

I watched Heidi Priebe's video on needs and relationships, which was pretty eye opening. I've often felt like I wasn't allowed to have needs, or that in a relationship, my needs are somehow disassociated from me. I very much identified with feeling like yoou have to meet all your needs in a relationship. It feels so foreign that someone else would meet my needs, or some of them, and not expect something from me. (I checked out for a bit after I wrote that last bit, so I guess there's something in there). This is also not "special," or only for certain (ie good) people, but is how relationships work for most people (apparently?). I guess it just feels safer for me to do things myself.

I'm also revisiting an experience with my gym friend where I was joking about doing an exercise badly because I was tired from working so much the past bit. She said, but why not do them this way - which was sort of it's fine what you're doing.  Of course me being me, I want to challenge and push myself. I sort of deflected and made it into a joke about already having a therapist (which sounds pretty harsh when I write it out here, but don't think it came across like that). So, we sort of talked (trauma bonded?) and turns out that she also has a similar family of the why didn't you get all A's variety, and she was speaking I guess as someone who she would have spoken to her like that. I didn't really take on board though what she was saying until later, or have it fully sink in. I didn't push myself to maximum, but backed off. However, that feeling of I should have done better was still there. Or maybe not should have done better, but disappointment in not doing so on some level.

I'm also pretty sure I saw a paedophile in the the grocery store yesterday, watching this mother and child probably pretty innocuously to everyone else, but I did not like the feeling. I don't know how to describe it, the mom was loving but busy and stressed, only half paying attention to the little girl, and it felt like he was taking all of this in and looking at the girl. I stared at him and he didn't care. The feeling was so odd. It was like he knew he wasn't going to get caught. And I felt like there is nothing really that I can do, but stare at him and show him I know what you are. This is the first time I've understood the term predator. That's exactly the feeling I got. I thought about going to the police, but what  can I say? I don't think this man should be around children. Or telling the mom to watch her child more closely? I wish I would have went after the mom, but I didn't want to cause her alarm? I guess it's bringing up some of my own feelings around powerlessness.

[Hope67]

Boundaries? Not allowed. Standing up for myself? Punished and gaslit into thinking it was me. So, the only thing that worked/was allowed was to block it out, or it just doesn't exist.

Wow Dollyvee, I relate to this so much.  I could have also written this about myself - it's quite a lightbulb moment to think that a perspective on something can be altered so much by this kind of stuff.  I think it's so unfair and horrible that this happens.  But it's also a way of coping, and I've done it too.  I'm glad that we can set our own boundaries as adults - although doing that can be challenging too.  I feel like I'm rambling now, but I just wanted you to know that I felt an affinity with what you wrote.

 
Hope 

[dollyvee]

Thank you Hope - I do feel it's quite big too. The feeling that other people didn't have, or don't have to put up with "bad" treatment from others, but somehow I do? That it's something in me, that I'm doing, where I'm not perfect or x enough, so it's somehow justified I think. For example, I'm the kind of woman who says things, so it's maybe to be expected that some men would "go after" me. Like I had it coming. I seem to have to fight a lot of this, but it's also coming from when I was a child where none of it should have been allowed. 

I'm realizing this morning that I've been in a state of disconnection, though I don't think I've ever recognized that that's what it is? It's like my cognitive self isn't online, and "heart" connections, or feeling is offline as well? I'm wondering if this is a very young part. I feel like before I would have had an excuse, or reason for the disconnection. The person behaved like x, so there was a need to cut and run to something else etc. However, I feel like my actions have been pretty centered, and everything that I feel I have to take responsibility for, I have. That being said, I have also been feeling like I need to hide myself from others at work to a degree, or that work connections have been difficult and I've wanted to "hide" myself from everyone, and/or feel like things aren't going to work out on some level. I'm wondering if this is something that was discussed in the HFDT book where something happens and your body just loses the connection and doesn't feel safe to reestablish it.

Speaking of reoccurring dreams, which came up in Hope's journal,  I had one last night that hasn't really registered as a reoccurring dream. I was back at my gf's house and it's come up over the past several years I think. This is the house my m grew up in and I lived in for a time with my m until I was around 5 or so? We all lived there together, and when my m and I did move out, we moved a street away, and my sf lived across the street. So when my m and I moved in with him, I was always at my gf's house. Small world. So, I guess the neighbourhood was a big part of my early life. I guess it felt like a safe place, but I think there's also a lot that I haven't unpacked, which is why maybe I keep going back. Last night I was concerned that they (my gm) had installed a door with a see through glass window, and I didn't think it was safe. (This is/was actually pretty close to the door that was there which was see through glass). I was also concerned/wondering about all the neighbour's houses that had dark windows. I don't know if I was concerned that they would see in (see me?)? Maybe I am still carrying shame from that time, and want to hide myself, that it doesn't feel safe to show myself, which makes me feel quite sad really.

edit: I was just making some coffee and thought about reaching out to someone and sending them a link to a book on a topic we had been discussing. Then I thought about reaching out to another person that I shared the same book with to see how they were doing. It sort of made me realize that there are quite a few people I could connect with, which sort of brought me out of the "mood" that I was in.

[dollyvee]

I can't believe I haven't come across this book before, The Fantasy Bond by Robert Firestone. Thanks Heidi Priebe.

"People cannot deaden themselves emotionally and become defensive without affecting the people closest to them. Therefore, parents who wall themselves off against feeling must inevitably suppress feeling in their young in those areas where they, the parents, feel the most threatened."

I don't even feel/know if I can comprehend where this might be when I think about my relationship with my family. Part of me just feels "everything/all over," but I think also probably sexuality and independence. I don't know if there's an area that didn't feel repressed growing up? That all feelings were repressed and made into something else, which is maybe why I have such difficulty trusting any internal feelings that do come up? I find the above quote disorganizing and pertinent at the same time.

"The therapeutic value of friendship must be emphasized, for it is virtually a necessity to share one's struggle with others who support one's individuality and personal freedom. Intimacy without bondage, and closeness without illusions of security enable a person to feel the truth of his or her separateness in a way not possible in a more conventional relationship."

I definitely have some things to say about this in fact is probably what I have been looking for, but feel the need for security (from those very young, infant parts) often get in the way, subconsciously or consciously as projections of safety, and seeing someone as a safe/unsafe person (fearful avoidance).

[Chart]

I so relate Dollyvee. So many things you are talking about here link to what I've been through the past eight months. The book you mentioned looks really interesting as well. I checked out fantasy bonds on YouTube. That's definitely what I experienced in my last relationship. I'm still grieving intensely. Thanks!