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Thank you so much, Eyessoblue. I was struggling with this whole issue and the shame and guilt I was feeling,  so reading your explanation helped so much. I have read this post several times and it is really helping to shrink the feelings of shame.

In fact,  even though I am suffering from this sinusitis,  I think I am doing quite well and feeling much more sure of myself about what I think and feel about things. It's quite an unusual sensation.

Hoping very much that your current therapy is working out for you.  I don't feel as negative about therapy as I did,  but will see how things go for a while,  especially as I do have a lot more insight and understanding than I did, and I am being kinder to myself than before.

Thank you again for your support.  You've helped me so much with your experience and your validation.

Take care.

Libby

That's interesting Sadie.  My sort of self harm is just like yours. It was the ear reference that struck me,  in particular.  This started with me at about eighteen,  when I was very distressed at starting nursing training,  which I hated. I am over fifty and still do it. I scratch the skin inside my right ear, and the pain travels right down the side of my body to my right foot,  which then sort of spasms. It's an odd feeling but still,  I do it. I hadn't really thought of it as SH, but it clearly is. I think I do it to dissociate.

My other form of SH,  which I don't do now, was to deprive myself of warmth when I it's very cold. This was a direct throwback to childhood,  where my needs were always denied. "I'm cold". "No you're not". I didn't think I deserved to be warm and wouldn't turn on the heating until my children came home.

Hi Hope.

I have just caught up with your posts from the past few days. 

What really struck me, because it felt so familiar,  was your discussion about positivity followed by negative feelings.  That's something I have become more and more aware of recently. I set out to do something because I want to.  I do it, but the fact that I did it, almost makes it feel worthless and negative.  Sometimes, even the decision to do something makes it the wrong decision,  because it was my decision.  It's so tiring. It must come from childhood conditioning, where everything we did or didn't do, was always absolutely wrong.  Now I have noticed this, I am mindful of sticking with my initial decision and not letting me talk myself out of it. Does that make sense, I wonder? You are so right - it's hard to hold onto the positivity.  For me, it's because I don't trust myself.

Your thoughts about your sister seem to echo this as well. You question whether you have made the right decision and are then looking for external evidence for or against the decision.  I certainly do that too.

It's all such a hard slog, isn't it?  But I think you are making good progress and helping me and others too, along the way.

Hoping you are OK with this heatwave.

Take care.

Libby

Good point,  Ah.

I believe absolutely that my abusive mother could see the vulnerability in me very clearly.  She was very attuned to it, because she was vulnerable in exactly the same ways, due to her unhappy childhood.  She always said that I was just like her and this made it so easy for her to hurt me.

To see someones vulnerability and then choose to be extra kind is a great character trait, Ah.

Thank you for this post.  It really got me thinking.

Dear Ah.

I never feel that I have much to offer on this forum,  but I just wanted to say that I very much relate to all of your posts, and in this one,  to the feelings of hopelessness.  I think that is what consumes me most of the time.

I think that Radical's description is spot on. I wonder if it resonates with you too, Ah?

Years into no contact with my parents,  and at the age of fifty plus, I still do something,  however mundane, but my initial thought about the action is always with regards to my parents.  Radical is so right,  I think. Our cruel and insensitive treatment didn't allow us to become people who mattered,  to ourselves or to others. No wonder we feel hopeless.

At least here, we are accepted as "real people"  with "real emotions".

I am standing by you, Ah.

Libby

Hi Mgrizz and welcome.

I too would be very wary of this therapist. I have recently had a poor experience with therapy and couldn't help but notice some similarities - the insistence on writing letters and burning them. In my case, it was a letter of forgiveness to my parents.  It didn't help me in the slightest. 

She also pressed me to do things similar to those your therapist gave you as homework. She was very keen that I went out and enjoyed myself,  with other people around me eg, restaurants full of happy families,  parks and beaches on sunny days. She was really just saying "think positive"  and you will enjoy yourself. That seems to be what your therapist was advocating.  Mine didn't grasp that,  thanks to childhood experience,  I am not at all sure what enjoying oneself involves!

All of this advice felt like the stuff all therapists trot out when they have nothing better to offer.  We aren't able to do it successfully so the therapist can say we are resistant.  Case closed.

Please tread very carefully with this therapist,  in the hope it might get you access to better,  trauma based therapy. You clearly deserve more than this one has to offer.

Best of luck to you,  and take care.

Libby

Hi Hope.

Thank you for checking back in with me. It means a lot. I have missed you on the forum,  but am pleased you had positive experiences with your time away.

...........


I just wanted to follow up on what I said about my mother in law, for my own peace of mind. I don't generally hate anybody,  not even my FOO.  I don't hate my mother in law, either,  but I realise now that I had been very triggered by her recently. I hadn't spoken to her for a while,  but she phoned about my daughter splitting from her boyfriend.  They had lived together for a couple of years,  but DD felt it wasn't right any more.  Absolutely her decision and she has dealt with the fall-out and all the practicalities completely independently and with great maturity.  Despite telling MIL this, she tells me how E "will just have to get on and cope with it. That's life.  She'll just have to be strong"  and some other such phrases.  I was triggered into reliving her tendency to phone and ask me how things were,  when I had three children under three, two with disabilities,  and wasn't coping at all well.  As soon as I said things were less than perfect,  she would make the same sort of meaningless comments and hang up. I have been utterly invalidated by her for the whole 30 years I have known her. This is her personality,  she is like it with everyone,  my husband just accepts it and expects nothing from her. I go along with this,  but I tie myself in knots when she triggers me. We have never expected anything from her, but I really question whether a bit of validation,  sympathy,  understanding is really too much to want, especially when it is her who has initiated the conversation.  Then I tie myself in knots in my mind, telling myself that she can be however she wants to be and my reaction to her is my choice. But if my reaction to her is negative,  then I beat myself up about this, because I have no right to be judgemental, because I am damaged and therefore wrong in everything I decide. 

Net result,  I don't hate her or anyone, but I simply can't cope with them. How not to feel guilty and ashamed at that?

Recently, I have considered trying to explain my cptsd to my FOO and my in-laws. I would like to think it would explain my behaviour to them.  But I don't think either group would understand.  FOO would invalidate with anger and hurt, and in-laws with a dismissive lack of interest.

Is it me, or is it just the extreme loneliness of cptsd.

Thank you so much, Eyessoblue.

Such a kind and understanding response was just what I needed. Your description of how disconnected you felt from your family rang so true to me. I am really starting to understand how strong this feeling was for me, as well. It wasn't just the bad times that I dissociated from. I never felt connected to them, even in the better times. Better times being, situations where everyone was OK with what my mother decided.  I still didn't really feel "right"  with them,  as if something was missing.  It's hard to explain the feeling,  but I suppose it was rooted in the failure of early attachment. I suppose,  then, that I probably did come over as "difficult".  My parents believe that they "tried so hard with me". That's maybe true, but they tried hard to make me fit in with their very strongly held view of family.  They were unable to even question why I was so unhappy.  I think this is where the emotional abuse really kicked in.  I had to be punished for spoiling our family.

So I do feel bad for my behaviour as a child and teenager,  but,  after my poor therapy experience, I am having trouble holding onto the idea that it wasn't all my fault. 

My therapist told me I was wrong in my belief that I was abused. I always assume I must be wrong about everything,  because that's the lesson I learned as a child and I assume every one else is right. But I don't trust myself or others.  That's a real feature of CPTSD isn't it? And that's where I am a bit stuck at the moment.

Thank you so much for your support and understanding.  In real life, I am coping quite well, keeping a nice, calm routine,  just with my husband, children and dog. If I could deal with the muddle of thoughts in my head, I would be OK.

Please keep in touch.

Hugs, Libby.

Hi Eyessoblue.

I just wanted to say that I understand your frustration about all the waiting the NHS is forcing on you. The reassessment bit is so silly,  and a good example of a waste of resources throughout the system.  Just like when my son had infected in-grown toenails.  After unsuccessful treatment by gp he still had to go onto a long waiting list to be assessed again. Absolute nonsense for both of you and such a waste of resources.

Anyway,  I'm pleased you have a therapist you like and will be interested to hear about the inner child work that you do. I'm not exactly sure what this is, but I remember you said it might be something for me to think about.

So, all the best with this new therapist and please let us  know how things go.

Take care.

Libby.

Can't believe it's a month since I have been here,  but it's time to write some things down,  in the hope of gaining some more clarity for myself.

Firstly,  I am still struggling with the idea that was impressed on me in therapy, that,  throughout our relationship,  the faults lay as much with me as with my parents. 

I accept I was difficult as a child - I know I was not right/depressed /volatile from the time I started school, aged 4. Therapy showed me that my difficulties lay mostly with a total failure of attachment to my mother, who was very young,  and damaged herself, but is in total denial. I accept also that there may well be some genetic predisposition within me (especially likely as I have an autistic son, and I see so many similar traits). So, OK. It's not my mother's fault.  I am even toying with the idea of sending them an apology for my part in all of this. But I remember all of the horrid things she did, but the fact that it wasn't her fault,  doesn't make them any less hurtful. So around and around I go, tying myself in knots.

I am just left with this overwhelming sadness for all of us. My parents for their suffering,  my husband for having to put up with me, my children for all of the problems that have been passed onto them, through genes and experience. 

It's odd, but the people I feel no sadness for (and I feel so guilty for this) is are my elderly in-laws.  I am sure that my mother-in-law would be classed as a very psychologically healthy person, with good boundaries and a strong sense of self. I hate her with a passion. There,  I've said it. Every time I have any contact with her, I am really triggered.  She is so different to my mother, and yet I find her callous and indifferent.  It must be me, I say, but then I am stuck with the feeling that,  if she represents a psychologically healthy person,  then heaven help humanity. 

So...

I come back again, to that feeling I have had, that I am just not human, that I am not connected to society,  that up until a few years ago, I just played the roles society expected of me - devoted daughter,  good student,  worker, wife, mother. But I can't do it anymore.  So is this my authentic self? Probably, because something was so very wrong in both my genes and my very early experience.  There was never going to be any other life for me. I've not missed out on anything because nothing else was possible.

My mother's denial seems very appealing!!  But, then again,  my realisation of intergenerational trauma has saved my children from a whole heap of suffering.  So round and round and round. How to stop this?

I do feel very down,  especially as I am suffering from sinusitis or something similar.  I am too scared and ashamed (because of who I am, not the symptoms themselves)  to seek medical advice because I am sure doctors just see me as a nuisance and will just tell me it's a symptom of my mental health problems. 

I will stop now because my dog needs her walk.  It's just good to get it off my chest!

I so wish I had some good advice for you. It must be a really hard position to find yourself in, and I really sympathise.  Looking back, I realise how with each job I had, I found it increasingly difficult to cope.

Financial considerations aside, a job with animals sounds like an excellent choice.  I would certainly look into that.  As would any type of job with minimal contact with people.  I was a nurse - for me, worst job choice imaginable!  What I would say, however,  is that I was probably at my best (never very good)  when I did short term,  agency type work.  It was maintaining work relationships that was so hard for me. So perhaps you could think about something more flexible.  That way you are not avoiding completely,  but aren't "pinned down",  so to speak.

I really do wish you well and hope that something good comes along for you.

Above all, take care of yourself.

Libby.

My mother often said that she hit me a lot but it never did me any harm.  Her weapon of choice was whatever footwear she happened to be wearing. 

The actual beating probably didn't do me a huge amount of harm at the time, but the message it sent to me, about how I had no feelings worth considering did harm me. Forever.

It was her unshakeable belief that nothing she did or said to me could have any negative effect on me that started to lead me out of the fog.

I am ashamed to say that I did hit out at my children a few times when they were young and I was overwhelmed.  I felt awful and always apologised and made them feel loved again.  After my mother hit me,  it was me who had to grovel to her, and forgiveness was an unknown concept for her.

I have lovely relationships with my grown-up children. Once they could talk, I did not need to lash out, but this also coincided with the start of LC with my parents. I think this was a big factor.

Hi Garlicmaster.

I have been absolutely NC with my entire FOO for over six years now. It was sort of me that initiated it, as a cry for help, but they embraced it fully.

I understand fully your sense of guilt - I felt that for so long. But, as I heal a little,  I  am seeing that I have no reason to feel guilty.  I can see now that it was the only healthy thing to do, for all of us. Every interaction was so distressing for me and my family. Possibly this was the case for my parents as well, but it's hard to say for sure, because their psychological defences are so strong,  namely,  they are perfect and I am awful!

The relationship had nowhere to go, especially as I set about trying to heal a little.

In terms of life events,  your partner's transition is much bigger than my daughter's decision to co-habit,  but I remember feeling so relieved that we were NC because they would have been so difficult and unpleasant and would,  I am sure, have tried to stir up difficulties between me and my daughter.  They are very definite in their views, to say the least!  She has just split with her boyfriend after several years, and I can imagine what they would be saying,  all along the lines of "we told you so" and a lot more besides.

These "toxic"  or "difficult"  parents can't change. They have no will or reason to change. Only you know what is right for you but whatever decision you make, it is the right decision for you, so don't feel guilty. 

Best wishes to you and take care.

Libby.

Hi Seashell.

I just wanted to say hello, and that I was really touched by your posts, particularly with regards to your mother.  I am at a very similar place to you, albeit my mother is still alive, I imagine,  but I am so totally NC with my FOO that I don't know for sure.

Through therapy,  I came to realise that my mother was very damaged and that her damaging me started at day one of my life. We then proceeded to hurt each other at every turn.  Nothing we could ever say or do to each other could ever be right.  Up until recently,  I thought it was "all her"!

It has been an awful realisation,  but I think we must hang on to the reality that it wasn't our fault (even if it wasn't the fault of our mothers, either).  Accepting this has been really hard on me but I have done it. Now I am trying to find a new way of being and that is tough as well.

I am about twenty years older than you and feel I have left it too late, but my husband is very positive about my new self awareness,  and has really stepped up to help me with all of this, despite what he has had to cope with for years.

So, I just wanted to say that I understand and encourage you to keep on with new approaches,  because,  as you said, the old ones weren't working.

Good luck to you, and I am standing beside you all the way.

Libby.

Hi again.

I was in danger of a ridiculously long post so decided to split it up.

Like you ponder on,  woodsgnome, I don't think anymore that there is a "cure". Not for me,  anyway. This is me. I don't feel part of society and am not fighting against this any more.

My disordered mother encouraged me to have children,  because she wanted grandchildren,  and after all, society expects people to have children.  Society will never question everyone's right to have children,  so those of us damaged by our parents have to be dealt with so that we fit in with societies' rules.

I know that people, doctors and therapists included, would say that these feelings are just the result of my disordered thinking.  And yes, they are right.  But isn't my view valid because it comes from my experience of life?  It is me! 

I will always be very sad and no antidepressant will help this. Neither will any therapy that tells me I am wrong all the time. 

I really hope that I have not gone over the top with this post.

Take care,

Libby.